From Orphanage To OCEANS: A Veteran’s Road (Doug Brinker)

A boy raised in a children’s home becomes a teenage helmsman on a destroyer, threads 40‑foot seas to Beirut, hauls cargo into Fallujah, nearly dies from an unseen infection—and then decides to spend the rest of his life pulling others back from the edge. Doug Brinker’s story isn’t tidy or theatrical; it’s real, specific, and full of hard turns that keep resolving into service.

We walk through the cold bite of Great Lakes boot camp, the grit and humor of ship life, and the shock of being trusted with a warship at nineteen. Doug shares vivid snapshots: Vatican mass on liberty, the sting of a Maldives jellyfish, the quiet pride of commissioning a new frigate as a plank owner. Leaving the Navy left a hole. He filled it with work—58 different jobs—before finding his way back into uniform with the Michigan Army National Guard, where convoys, MTOE math, and welcome-home parades defined a new mission.

Iraq changed the stakes. From Camp Anaconda to runs near Fallujah, he lived the logistics war in sandbagged trucks with plexiglass windows and no up-armor. An abrasion turned into a raging staph infection; medevacs carried him from Balad to Landstuhl to stateside recovery. That near miss pushed him back to school at 42, from business lectures to a communication degree and finally a master’s—proof that purpose isn’t bound by age.

Today Doug serves veterans as a peer support specialist, VFW mental health director, and author of My Dark Shadow From a Suicidal Self to a Purpose of Hope. He speaks candidly about suicide survival, VA benefits, and the healing power of community, and he champions hyperbaric oxygen therapy for TBI and PTSD. His mantra—Helping One Person Every Day—turns grand talk into practical action.

If you care about military service, post‑traumatic growth, veteran mental health, or what it takes to turn pain into purpose, this conversation will stay with you. Listen, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Transcript

Early Years And Children’s Home

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Today is Thursday, January 15th, 2026. We're talking with Doug Brinker, who served in the United States Navy and the Michigan Army National Guard. So good afternoon, Doug. Good afternoon, Bill. Great to see you again. Great to see you. Yeah, so uh, you know, for people listening out there, Doug and I's paths have crossed a few times uh over the last few years. That's right. Yep, absolutely. So we'll just start out with uh the first question, and that is when and where were you born?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Jackson, Michigan, January 31st, 1963, which means I'll be 63 in 16 days.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

That's coming up. It's coming up. It's it's funny when I don't know, when I was younger, I never pictured myself being 60 years old, and yet here I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

If we knew what we knew now back then, we'd be dangerous. We'd be dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Yeah, absolutely. So talk to me a little bit about uh growing up. Did you uh grow up in the Jackson area then?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yes, I did. Okay. So my story is really unique because I didn't grow up with brothers and sisters in a standard, normal, traditional home. I actually lived with my adoptive grandparents. And after my grandma died in December of 1969, my grandpa took care of me in Vandercook Lake, Michigan. And then he got to a point where he couldn't take care of me and placed me in the St. Joe's Home for Children, which is the same place that Tom Monaghan. Oh. Those up for are familiar with the Detroit Tigers. Tom Monaghan actually lived in the St. Joe's Home for Children in Jackson on Ellery and Porter Street.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

So how old were you when you eight years old? Eight years old. What do you remember about how that felt to go there?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

So it was unique because it was run by Catholic nuns. And anybody that knows the history of Catholic nuns, it it's probably a little worse than living at uh grand and grandpa's or or the traditional home because Catholic nuns were very strict.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Did they really like crack your knuckles with a I don't recall that uh that was so many years ago, but um I do recall that they they enforced the rules, which that's what they're because the kids that lived there were in there for a variety of reasons. And it's unique because I would say about eight years ago they had a first ever reunion. I got to get picture, the the small group of us that attended the reunion, got a picture with Tom Monnihan was there, and I actually learned just a few years ago, um, another friend of mine, she actually served in the 1461st unit of Michigan National Guard. She was actually in the children's home and remembered me. That's pretty incredible. And we met uh about four years ago down in Hillsdale at the American Legion. Uh a gal and her husband, who he's a Navy veter, mothers of veteran suicide organization. They have a pulp bus that they travel all over the country and they meet with mothers whose sons have taken their life by suicide, and they comfort them and provide support and resources. And that's how we she was there with that couple, and we connected and getting to share a little deeper story, we were both in the St. Joe's home together.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Wow, that's that's amazing. You hear those stories about the Navy, right? Like two guys served on a ship at the same time, all that kind of stuff. But um, yeah, so you you were there for a while. Did you make a lot of friends while you were uh I made a few, okay, and anyone that you still keep in contact with?

Blended Family And Finding His Place

SPEAKER_00 5:19

No, no, but it's interesting how in that reunion a couple of them remembered me like they remembered every little quirk about me. And and I unfortunately don't have that recall, yeah, per se, to remember that. I do remember uh one, a couple of instances while in the home, we always got to take turns going to baceteria, and they had a big van truck, and they would take different kids, and I always remembered to get to get a free donut and and stuff like that. But we had a playground, and we I was then attending Trumbull Elementary School, uh-huh, which was about 800 yards from the home. So you'd walk through the the ball fields and pass Northeast Elementary, and you would arrive at Trumbull Elementary by the over by the what is the um detention center. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

All right, and you said you were at the the children's home for how long? For five years until I was 13.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Then so what happens when you're 13? So I went home to my mom and my biological mom and my stepdad's home, and that's where I was introduced to being around my stepbrothers and sisters from 13 to the time that I graduated from high school. So I went to Frost Elementary, or actually Frost Middle School. I went to Helmer. I went to Helmer and Trumbull, Blair Elementary. Blair is now the apartment complex currently today.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Nothing stays the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Helmer is currently where Dollar General is at.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

And Trumbull's just a vacant lot. So I went to those three schools. Um prior, I went to Townsend Elementary out in Vanderkoek for a couple of years. And then I um we moved out to the Grass Lake area and went to Grass Lake and finished from eighth grade, the second semester of eighth grade all the way through high school.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

So what was it like? I mean, you so you went from your grandparents where you didn't have any siblings, and you were in the the um the home for a while, and now you're back with a family. What how was that for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

That was interesting because you know, being the older sibling in the family, I was expected to set uh set an example, set certain examples, and when I didn't, I I kind of got the punishment for it.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

So yeah, it was always a challenge.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Did you enjoy having brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

It was interesting because you you didn't grow up with them, right? So you you have very little chemistry between them, but I I love them all the same. Um we spent a lot of time standing in different corners of the house. When one got in trouble, the whole team got in trouble, so everybody went in the corner. Uh-huh. It didn't matter. You could have been the best behaved kid in the house. You still spent 15 minutes in the corner.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

A little group punishment.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, group punishment. Maybe they should maybe they should consider that today.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

They were they were preparing you for the military. That's what they were doing. Exactly. Yeah. So you were the oldest. Now, how many brothers and sisters separate?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I have two uh brothers and two sisters. So I have a sister that she just turned a couple of years younger than me, um, 61. And she lives in the Tawas area. I have a sister that lives in, I believe, Clark Lake area, a brother who's four years younger than me, lives with my stepdad, and then I have a brother uh lives, I think, Kentucky, some area. Okay. Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

So who was the oldest before you got there? My sister, who's two years younger than I. Okay. And did she have a problem with having a new older person in the house? Or was she?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, we we squabbled a little bit. Yeah. And you know, I got the front of it because I was supposed to set the example.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Right. Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

It was a it was a unique uh the years that we grew up once we moved out into the Leone uh Grass Lake, Michigan Center area, there was a lot of back and forth of different things that went on, but yeah. Every family has that unique household chemistry of more than one sibling in the house.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

There's always gonna be differences, favoritism, etc.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah. So you um you uh graduated high school. Did you go into the military right away then? Okay, joined the Navy. So why the Navy over any of the other services?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

I don't really know. So the backstory to why I went in the Navy is because I didn't take college prep classes in high school.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Okay.

Choosing The Navy And Great Lakes Boot Camp

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Um I was on uh the state, the first state championship baseball team in 1980 at Grasslake with the late Joe Bechtel. Wow. And who's now who just happened to be a quarterback at Eastern Michigan University, where I tried to get into, but the counselor, school counselor told me that my chances of success the first semester semester was nil to none because I hadn't taken college pre classes, uh-huh, I would probably not do well. And so I ended up going to the Navy. I why the Navy? I don't know. I did you check out the other branches? I don't even know. I just I just like it. Uh-huh. But the so the interesting thing, when I was six years old, I received a sailor suit for Christmas. Uh-huh. So maybe the correlation twelve years later, and I've shared this, I've shared it, and I have a book that I've published and written stories, and I share that correlation in many of my speaking opportunities because it's interesting that I wore a navy outfit at six years old and wore a real one at 18 years old.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Yeah. Yeah, I think those things influence us somehow. We don't even think about it, but it just does, yeah. So where where did you so you enlist in the Navy? Did you go right away?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Or you okay. So I was on the delayed entry program. I went, I joined June 19th, 1981, uh-huh. Under the delayed entry program. And then I went to Great Lakes, Illinois, where some call it Great Mistakes. I've heard it called that. And so I went to Great Lakes, Illinois, October 19th, 1981. Uh-huh. And was there until January, early January. So talk about cold. Oh yeah. Michigan doesn't know cold until you've until you've stood watch in 45 below zero actual temperature for 10 minutes outside. In fact, I remember the day that San Francisco and Denver, I believe it was, played for the NFC Championship. It was 72 below zero with wind chill. The frost had formed on the inside of the barracks windows. We were secured to the barracks for three days. We weren't allowed to even go to the chow hall to class to nothing. We did everything in our barracks. And then when we finally were allowed, we marched to everything, and it was still 40 below.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

A balmy 40 below, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

And in the Navy, you know, I didn't understand the concept of why the Navy issued steel-toed boondockers or steel-toed boots for those that don't know.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Man, I haven't heard the term boondocker in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

So yeah, you get issued those steel-toed boots, yeah, and and the wool socks, but when you get to class, you have to take your boots off and your socks off so your feet can thaw out, so you're able to march to chow hall at lunchtime and at dinner time and everything.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

That's cold. Yeah. That's cold. Do you do you remember like your first experience in basic training and what that was like for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

So I was a sports geek at Grass Lake High School, and they had IT, which was intense training. Well, Doug figured I'm gonna get some extra physical workout here. Right. Long did I know that that workout you were mashed by Filipino instructors. And one of the exercises was to do leg lifts, lifting your boots six inches off the deck. No more, no less, right? And if they heard anybody drop, they extended the time. Long story short, when I went back to the barracks, I had probably a half a cup of sweat in the bottom of my boots from all that workout.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Yeah. You enjoy your extra training, did you?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, I enjoyed the extra training. I remember getting we got dropped out in the snow for various things.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

That's why we they issued they issued nice warm leather gloves because they dropped you wherever.

unknown 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

And you pushed in the snow on the deck.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I went to San Diego, so I didn't experience any of that. But but I did go, I did go to Great Lakes for uh for my uh training for my uh training. So yeah, for my yeah, it was cold.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

But yeah, I uh I spent the time in Great Lakes. We went um we went to Chicago Bears football game. Uh we got snowballs thrown at us. We went downtown. We ate fine steak dinner and drank watered down beer because then you didn't get carded when you were in the military.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

They didn't have the 21 and carting rule in place back then, so you could drink underage.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Well, some military bases had beer machines. Yeah. I think it was like 50 cents or 75 cents, beer pops up.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Well, yeah, we went over to the bowling alley on base when we were allowed. Once we finished actual boot camp, uh-huh and we were waiting for that transition, and we had the free time, we got to go over to the to the bowling alley and drink three two flitz beer, which is more water than than alcohol. Right?

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Yeah, but you were a man, you were drinking beer, that's what was we were drinking beer. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

We were drinking beer under 21.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

So, did you where did you go on for your next training? Did you stay at Great Lakes?

First Ship, Cold Seas, And Beirut Duty

SPEAKER_00 18:05

No, I got uh so the other piece of that, we had a shipmate who unfortunately he was from Hazel Park, he was part of a gang that was involved in a robbery, and he was given two options time in prison or time in the military. He chose the military. He actually stole from many of us in the company, and then somehow we both got stationed on the same ship in Charleston, South Carolina. Oh no. Yes, who he ended up stealing uh for the whole ship. He had this technique of going up and putting his arm around you when you were opening your coffin locker. And for those that don't know, on Navy ships, you your locker is your bunk where you sleep. And so he ended up memorizing people's locker combinations, and then he'd go back and write them down. So he had stolen a money order from me, and when I went to Captain's Mass with him, you know, I wanted this, and the captain says, Oh, that takes an act of Congress to do that. But they did bust him down, he got um 90 days restriction, and then he did get an administrative discharge, uh-huh. Which administrative discharge is worse than a dishonorable administrative discharge means you're just you don't even deserve to hand out shopping carts at Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

So yeah, we were stationed um Charleston, South Carolina, stationed on the USS Mullinix, DD-944, which is a four Sherman ship class ship of the 1200-pound boiler system. Um the old school Navy. Right. If if people are familiar with Saginaw Bay and the USS Edson, DD-946 museum ship, that is the sister ship to the Mullinacs.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Oh, so if you forget homesick, you can go visit the Bay City.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, and I did hear about eight, seven, eight, nine years ago. Uh-huh. There was a VFW. Event in Bay City that weekend, and the wife and I, we actually ended up going to the Edson. Of course, she wasn't able to walk through a lot of it, but I was able to, and so it brought back a lot of memories walking up on that bridge because I was a Bolswain's mate, the person that pilots the ship. Right. Being on that bridge and standing behind that great big 60-inch helm and looking out. But when I was in, I went to Beirut Lebanon for the multi-peacekeeping mission in November of 1982. And en route, we went to the North Atlantic of 40-foot waves, 20-foot swells, and 60 and 45-degree rolls.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

And I've told that on many archives, other stories that people couldn't believe that at eight, 19 years old, that I piloted a Navy ship through that and survived. I didn't wind up in the bottom of Davy Jones' locker.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Well, you know, I think that that uh a lot of people don't realize the amount of responsibility that we give young men and women who are who join the military. I mean, it's been that way since the formation of the military, but you you think about the stuff you did when you were 18 or 19. And um I don't know I would trust an 18 or 19-year-old with that kind of stuff. So that was uh so your your deployment we didn't call them deployments in the Navy. What did we call them? Your um maybe they were deployments.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Anyway, so you went to uh Beirut, Lebanon as part of that, that and so were you there for was it a six-month uh we were there from November to January, and then we went to the uh Palma, Spain, and Naples, Italy. Yep. That was the two Liberty call stock that we did. So got to experience some fine wines of Spain and the bull run and all of that, and then went to Naples. I actually got to go to the Vatican. Cost something like about$110 in American money to go to the Vatican, and I set two pews from the pulpit and listened to the late John, Pope John Paul give Mass. That must have been something. Pretty cool. I have a at home, I have a soapstone sculpture setting of Jesus and the 12 disciples. Um I traded some of the dungarees, the work uniform, the blue jeans and the bell bottom blue jeans and the long sleeve uh work shirt. Uh I traded for a really nice handmade tablecloth that I shipped home to mom and dad. Yeah, you can get some pretty interesting things while you're you can get the five dollar watches. Oh, yes. You know, the the uh Italian individual would, hey Joe, I I got watches.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Buy yourself a nice Rolex. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

For 20 bucks it runs for about a month and then it quits.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Right. And it's misspelled. Rolex is misspelled on, but you know, what are you gonna do? Right. So you uh you did that cruise and then uh you came back to Charleston?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

No, we uh went on to so the ship's 25th anniversary. We were supposed to have gone to Australia, but unfortunately, some US sailors went to Australia prior and raised all kinds of ruckus. Right. So Australia didn't want us there. A little more group punishment. Yeah, no more group punishment. That's right. Everybody stand in the corner. They we actually got to go to the Maldive Islands in the Republic of Mali, which is in the Indian Ocean. Beautiful. If you look up Maldive Islands today, it didn't look like that back then, but I actually went to the island of Bolafushi. They each island had its own staff, its own bar, its own, they prepared fresh fruits and fish. They caught different types of fish and prepared them on a bed of fresh mango and papaya. Wow. I remember uh the February of um 1983 of going for a swim at like 8 a.m. in the morning. It was like like it is out right now, you know, five inches of snow and 15 degrees out, and I was in the Maldives Islands and 85 degrees and water that you could see the bottom 200 yards out, and and walking back in, I saw it looked like a piece of plastic. And I brushed my hands through it, and all of a sudden I felt like a sting. It actually ended up being a jellyfish.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Oh no.

Liberty Ports, Traditions, And Decommissioning

SPEAKER_00 25:41

And my fingers swelled up to about four inches in diameter on my left hand, and I had to get a shot from the medical staff on the island, and then get taken back to the ship to fill out the medical report, and then got to go back to the island. But um, we went there and then we went to Mombasa, Africa, and that was unique. Um, I still have the little hand-carved African animals at home. Um, we got to experience the the beers of Africa, which is Tiger, White Cap, and Star. They are 18-ounce bottles. They are served at just below room temperature, and they have um 13.5% alcohol by volume.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

So you can get a little drunk on that.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah, and 55 cents, mind you, for one beer. Wow. So for$1.65, it was as if I drank a whole case of American produced beer.

unknown 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Big difference.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Now the beer companies would be out of uh business if they made the beer strong enough that you drink three beers and you're done. They wouldn't be making the profits they are today.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

That's true. That's true. So, how long were you in Africa then?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

I think three days, uh-huh. Two or three days. Got to go on a wild African safari tour and see all the like you know, growing up watching Mutual of Omaha.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah. And Marlon Perkins.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Marlon Perkins.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

And his buddy Jim. Yeah. Jim's always wrestling something.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I lived at my grandpa's watching those old programs like that, I actually experienced in the wild all of that. And so it's kind of, you know, something that you didn't get in history class, you actually got firsthand experience learning.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Right, right. I mean, what was the old adage? Uh it was uh join the navy, see the world. And it was true. Yep. It was true.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

I mean, the other adage is never again volunteer yourself. That is what Navy stands for. That's what it stands for. Yeah. But I still haven't for I still haven't uh caught on to that concept because I've still since coming out of the Navy in 1984 off active duty, I've been volunteering for the last 42 years.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Yeah, yeah. I think you know, and we'll talk about this, but I really believe that that's one of the things with uh veterans is many of them just continue to serve after their time in the military. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

That's because they they need that connection.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

They need that community, they need that connection, they need that family feeling of belongingness. And when they don't get it, then we see unfortunately the the negative effects of of crime, of suicides, of everything else that goes with that negative connotation.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Right, right, absolutely. So you um you uh where do you go after Africa then?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

We did come back, I think we oh, we went to um Nassau, Bahamas. We went to spring break and Fort Lauderdale.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

That doesn't sound like a good combination for sailors. Sailors in Spring Break.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

By the way, the you know it's it's it's a negative, but it's kind of why the military is good drinkers. So now we know that some have unfortunately become alcoholics or or have maybe dealt with the law, getting in trouble for drinking and driving, or maybe even the worst case of of of killing someone.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

But um, yeah, we went to Fort Lauderdale for spring break and wow.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

You remember much about it?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

So there's a bar called the Candy Store. Uh-huh. And yeah, it was uh I remember they had Blondie, Hart, and someone else perform on the beach. Now this was back when I'm 19, 20 years old. This is 46 years ago now. I can still remember those little incidences that uh I remember uh renting a convertible and driving to Miami and like that, like Don Johnson in Miami Vice.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

The radio cranked up.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

And when I was in African, you know, when I was on the med cruise, uh I was the golden boy of canning. We we constructed our own tanning oil of baby oil, iodine, and coconut oil, and a couple of other secret ingredients. And we would lay between the signal shack and the 40 shack or the the stacks when we weren't working. And and I was just as brown as the table is of what we're rusting our arms on right now.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

You know, there's something too, like people don't re people don't realize that in the in the in the 80s and the 70s, people used baby oil and iodine to to sunbathe. Yeah, and that just I mean, you wouldn't even think about doing that today. People lose their minds. Right. But yeah, that's I remember.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

And I got Panama Jack and all the other stuff now. Oh yeah. But yeah, we got we got dark brown, and I remember coming home on leave. Uh, once we did get back to Charleston, May of 1983, just before decommissioning the Mullinks.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

I remember uh coming home and I had a I had a um really like sky blue top and white shorts and and this dark, dark, deep tan that I had going on. Yeah. I like look like a copper tone kid. You were the man. I was the man. I was the yeah. That was back when I was 155, 160 pounds and perfect abs and had a six-pack instead of a case. Yeah, instead of a instead of now today a small keg.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

That's right. That's right. So so you uh you you get back to your ship and then they decommissioned it.

Plank Owner On USS Duwert And Sea Rituals

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, they decommissioned it, and then um sadly, they actually took the Mullanix out to the off the coast of Puerto Rico, and the EOD team lined it with explosives. And the first time it did not break, and it took another um round because back then they built ships of yeah, they built them to last. I mean, the Mullinix was part of it went to Vietnam, it was part of Hurricane David and lost its Ford gun mount. Um, it was part of the Apollo 7 rescue mission. It's got quite a history. If you look up the USS Mullinix DD 944, you'll learn a plethora of history behind the Mullinux and its its dedication to to the U.S. warships uh back in the day. But um, so we decommissioned it, and then I went to Norfolk, Virginia to pre-com school, and I went to Hilo Firefighting School, I went to Boat Coxan School, which is learning how to drive the small boats. So the boats are actually attached to the ship. So a ship is not called a boat. No, no, no. The boats are attached to the ship.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Right, right, on Davids.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

All right, yeah. And so I went there, went to uh LSE School, which is Hilo Landing School, so I'm certified to uh give directions to have a helicopter take off or come in and land. So I actually, and that was back with the eight Huey 60s, the H60s that we used, and they had a great big at night, they had a great big white circle lit up, and you landed it when the chopper came in, you landed it, and I accidentally set the bird down about a couple of inches outside the white line. Oh, and the trainer says, Congratulations, you just put that bird in the water, because the white line represented the edge of the ship on the on the fantail side. So if you would have landed, if that would have been a real case scenario, the the helicopter would have fallen into the water.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Yeah. You learn your best lessons from your mistakes, though, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

It's a good thing we were on land.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

But yeah, I I became, and then I went to Bath Main in August, and while the ship was being built, the USS Do Work FFG 45, which is now decommissioned as of April of 2014. I went there and November 19th, 1983, in about 19-degree weather in Bath, Maine, we stood out there for two or three hours with our Navy peacoats on. Right. Thank God for Navy wool peacoats and everything, but we stood out there and and commissioned the Duwert and launched the ship into the Kennebec River.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

So you're a plank owner then?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Plank owner and a shellback. Because when I was in the Indian Ocean, we crossed the equator and went through shellback, which is a whole you have to look up the shellback initiation rituals.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Right. They would call that they would call it hazing today, but hazing today. It was an initiation back then.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah. Yeah, we did some crazy things, blowing water out of the tie-down things on the deck. Um that we had a mess cook that was about 300 pounds, and they put mustard on his belly, and we had to kiss his belly, yeah. Kiss his belly and die for pickles. Oh yeah. Oh you'd really get in trouble today.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

In today's Navy, they don't probably do any of that.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

No, no, you had the you had the blue nose, you had the shellback initiation, um, Order of the Rock, or uh Passing by the Rock of Gibraltar. They're all kinds of really cool traditions. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

So I enjoyed uh, so yeah, I'm a plank owner. So uh six years ago, we had our first reunion, and I hadn't seen those shipmates since November 16th, 1984, when I walked off the quarterback, quarter deck in the brow for the last time. I hadn't seen those shipmates in that amount of time, uh, six years ago. Four years ago, we went to Jacksonville, Florida, and then just this past November, we are in Norfolk, Virginia for our third reunion. And October 1st through the third, we will be in Philadelphia for our fourth reunion in hopes that the government does not destroy our illustrious doort or sell it to another country before then, and we're gonna make every attempt. We have Admiral Doan, who is was part of the commanding fleet when the doort was commissioned, and he is gonna try to pull his strings in Washington to um make arrangements for us to get on board the ship one last time. That would be great. Yeah, that would be great. It would especially when you're 65 plus years old going on it 45 years later.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

The interesting thing is, I to me, no matter how long you're away from it, it's when you get there, it's like it's it's like you're transported back in time. And it doesn't matter if you're even on the same kind of ship because they all have that smell and that feel, and there's just some of it, that haze gray color, right?

Leaving The Navy And Civilian Hustle

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, I I when I went on the um the Edson back a few years ago, I was like, how did I fit through these hallways? And how did I smaller? Yeah, I was a lot, I was 6'2, 155, and today I'm 6'4 uh 240. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot different. Yeah, I'm like a whole different, I'm like a another person. You're like two I'm like two people in one body, that's right. And it's like, how did I fit? And yeah, it's like I tried to crawl into the bunk, and it's like, and I slept on the top bunk. Yeah. How in the heck did I manage that? And you actually slept. And and when you general quarters got sounded, you had to be on that deck and dress in two minutes or less at your general quarters station. It would take me 20 minutes today. Could it take me 20 minutes just to get awake?

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Yeah, just to wait. Right? Right. Well, I want to ask you. So in November of 1984, you walk off that ship for the last time. How'd that feel?

SPEAKER_00 40:15

It was um it was very emotional because I didn't want to get out of the Navy. Uh unfortunately, I went to the recruiter, and back then the Navy made no deals. They weren't interested in retaining sailors, and I went to the Recruiter and I said, hey, look, what's it gonna take to stay in? And I offered to re-enlist. They said, no guarantee. I offered to pay my own way to the West Coast because I wanted to go to San Diego so I could do a Westpac. Still no guarantee. So I did what all sailors getting out of the Navy do. And I went and got chain links and hooked it to my belt loop. And every month, in formation, our chief bulswains mate from Queens, New York, big guy, big guy, about 6'6, about 300 pounds, like a linebacker for the Lions.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

A true boatswain's mate.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah. He was a lifer. Oh, he I think he he probably grew up uh listening to Davy Jones or something. And every every month during formation at 0700, I would ask permission to cut one less month off in his navy. And I always remember, Brigitte, get in the paint locker today. I always went in the paint locker, or when we went out to sea, I went over the side in the boatswain's chair, chasing running rust. So he found the dirtiest jobs to assign me until I got out. And I remember two guys that one, we just reconnected after 43 years. Last year, Bill Reed from uh the East Coast, he um he came to the last reunion and we hadn't seen each other physically since him and I and Bill Ford. We all went out the night before. We were all getting, so three of us were getting out at the same exact time. Uh-huh. We went out in Maine and we bought the most expensive case of champagne money could buy. And we had a party. Well, we showed up two hours late for muster on the day of discharge. Yeah. We almost got held the captain almost held us from Captain Armstrong almost held us from discharging uh that morning. Oh wow. Yeah. So what did you do when you got out? So I came home.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Came home, I collected unemployment for a year, and then I actually took a busboy job at the clock restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Now there's a there's a place I have not, this is the first time I've heard that been been mentioned in probably 30 years. Yeah. The clock restaurant.

Michigan Guard: Training, Mobilizations, And Homecomings

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Jim Conway. Yeah. I worked for him as a busboy, and then I trained to become a cook. And I was a cook for a little bit, and when was it? I don't even remember now. Um yeah, I I I left there. So anyway. So we had our I remember our first class reunion, our five-year class reunion. Um we started there at the clock. We had dinner at the clock, and then did our own did our things afterwards. But um so yeah, I worked there for a short bit, and then I uh uh became what I call the minimum wage guy. I spent my whole life working um 58 different jobs. Wow. Worked in shops, I was a janitor, I was a truck driver, machine shop, uh, machine operator, um you name it. I I did a little bit of everything. Worked at McDonald's, worked at Wendy's. Um, yeah, it's all my book. I just did what you had to do, right? Yeah, I did what I had to do. I didn't have the the college experience to do a career until my early 40s. You know, when I had joined, after I joined the Michigan National Guard 1461st Transportation Unit for the second time.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

So what year did you join the National Guard?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

So the original I joined 1989.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And I drove uh the 1461st for three years, the deuce and a half. Then they went to the five-ton, the unit deployed to Saudi Arabia uh in 1990, and I was left behind. Me and three others were left behind, and we were told that um, well, I was told personally, because I came in with a civilian CDL, went to a truck driving school the summer of 85. I had driven their equipment for two and a half years, but somehow the army said I wasn't qualified to go to war because I didn't have 88 mic, which is truck driving training. Yeah, you didn't go to the military truck driver. And so, long story short, um they said they didn't have the money to send us. So Mr. Douglas here took, instead of following chain of command, I filed a complaint with the general's office of the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

They don't like it when you do that with the IG. No. I don't think the IG likes it either.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

No, yeah. I went right to the man himself.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

And of course, then, you know, everything falls downhill. Right. And I get called onto the carpet by the colonel of battalion. And he reams me for better than 20 or 30 minutes. Once, you know, once the the fire has calmed down, uh-huh. I asked permission to speak freely, sir. Permission granted. I said, sir, with all due great respect, that is my family that left us behind. I did what I had to do to be with my family. Long story short of that, they found the money, sent us all to phase two of truck driving school, where we went to Camp Granling on the HETs, the great big heavy equipment, which is the M1 Abrams tanks. We learned how to load and unload a 70-ton tank off of that trailer with 40 wheels. What we call the monster trucks.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

They're big.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

We drove them up and down I-75 for training, and we became certified. And then when the unit did return from Saudi Arabia, I, along with the Family Readiness Group, we took and planned the greatest welcome home parade party there ever was when there was 10,000 plus Jacksonians standing alongside the sidewalks of West Ave to welcome the unit home. So I was there in uniform saluting the buses as they drove by, and that was very heartwarming to many of them because they what I learned later, the commanding officer didn't want to take the few of us because they didn't have enough confidence or something. That's what I learned. But they were taking Marines in three days, they were calling qualified over there when it took me almost a year to get certified through military truck driving and school training.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

So how long did you stay in this first enlistment then? Three three years. Three years. You did three years and then you got out.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yep, got out and I was out for ten years.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Now did you just continue because doing life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Yep, doing life, working all those jobs.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Yeah. Now, did you get married in this period of time at all?

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I had um 1993. Yeah. 1993, I got married um to my oldest son's mother. He was born on race day, June 23rd, 1996. So I was at the hospital during contractions, turning the volume up louder and louder on the TV.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Because you couldn't get her to be quiet.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Right. Because the contractions were drowning out, trying to listen to Barney Hall and Ned Jarrett broadcast the race from Brooklyn, Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

This is not the way to endear yourself to a woman, dog, just so you know that.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

No.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Are you still married?

Iraq Convoys From Balad And Daily Risks

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Well, we ended up sadly divorcing um uh in 1997, and then um I joined the back, I joined the unit back in 2002. Okay. And then, of course, Iraq come and they needed volunteers. And in the meantime, I had met a gal, and we had a young son, June 16th, Father's Day of 2000, who is now served our country proudly as a United States Marine truck driver. At least he, at least he took the truck driver rope instead of the Navy rope. Right. But uh he took the, he took the and joined the Marines. And before he even joined, I told him, you know, you're joining the not only the elite organization, but the hardest organization. And I told him, just remember, this isn't like scouts where you can quit. Right. Once you raise your hand and say, so help me God, it's a done deal. You now belong to the United States government under contract. If you choose to quit, they'll just put you in the brig for breach of contract, and then they'll give you a dishonorable discharge after your four years and send you on your way. And he went to Paris Island, South Carolina for boot camp. Now, those that don't know nothing about Paris Island, it's not only sticky and sand fleas and scorching hot, it's rough. It's not the Hollywood boot camp.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

And I remember the first six letters that I received from him. Dad, this sucks. I hate you. Why'd you let me join? I want to quit. And I always support him. I wrote him back loving, supporting letters. And by about week seven or so, when they went to the gas chamber, Dad, this was fun. I just never had no fun going to the gas chamber.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

All of a sudden, you were a genius. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Going to the gas chamber in Great Lakes, Illinois.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

And then by the towards week 13, oh, I'm gonna make a career out of it. I'm gonna I'm gonna be a lifer in the Marine Corps. Two years in, stationed in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, we can go down to visit him. He's sitting in this office, and he's a, I believe, a spec four, and all he does is assign equipment out, and they fight over what flavor Red Bull they're gonna have and in the cooler, and this sucks. I'm getting out of my four years. Marines ain't what it what it's all cracked up to be. I didn't say nothing, I kept supporting him. So he discharges May of what's today, 26, May of 24, I believe. Um and then like a year ago, Dad, I'm gonna join the reserves. But they let me try it out for a weekend if I like it or not. No questions asked. So he does his weekend, comes home. Oh my gosh, this is a w these people don't know what they're even doing. I'm not doing this. Not long ago after that, he signs a contract to be a reservist, and that's where he's at. He's he does drill once a month in Selfridge Air National Guard base. And I'm very proud, he's a mechanic, the master mechanic in Jackson. So I take my Jeep, and when I take my Jeep, I get the family rate for labor. Yeah, there you go. Instead of paying the full rate if somebody else works on it.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Right, right. No, that's that's always a good deal.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Yeah, that's always a good deal. I have a mechanic in the family.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

So I want to back up a little bit though. So you uh you met this gal, you're you're in the Michigan National Guard for your second time, and they're looking for people to volunteer to deploy. So what happens?

SPEAKER_00 56:08

So I ended up um deploying, and he was uh Austin was actually three years old, and Kyle was seven. Uh-huh. I knew the risk. Um, I actually ended up um legally meeting someone and marrying, but I didn't really consider it a marriage. Uh, but the Navy would not um let me, or the guard would not let me come home and go through an annulment process because of the training for Iraq.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

Because I was in Fort McCoy, Wisconsin doing training. And it was a disruption to my training schedule to deal with personal. And end up, sadly, she ended up um writing um bad checks uh in the amount of$987.37, which anything over$500 is a federal offense. And you as a military spouse are responsible for your other spouse's actions.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Luckily, I was connected to a retired JAG officer who is the Jackson City attorney. And this is the importance that I urge all of the listeners to know the importance of having crucial resource connections in your pocket.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

It's all about making really it's all about relationships. It's all about relationships, and not having the relationship because you're going to need them someday, right? But you have the relationship and you may need someone someday.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

And he was successful at getting that person put in jail. And long of the short is she went before the judge, and today that I am aware of, she's no longer allowed to have any financial name on any type of financial device, be it a money order, a credit card, a checking account, etc. So what goes around comes around. Karma is real, and it's not nice, and it's not nice some or most of the time. But um, so then uh 14 years ago I met a gal from Parma, Michigan. Little old good old Parma, Michigan. Population, I don't know, 800 maybe.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

Yeah, it's not a big city, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

And uh we um we met and and I proposed tour on Sweetest Day at the Jackson 612 Eagles when Michigan and Michigan State were playing. Ironically, as a Michigan fan, I just happened to get down on my knee when Michigan State happened to score a touchdown. And that's what all of her friends remind me of.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

Right. Nothing else but that.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Nothing else but that.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Yeah. So you met and married her after you were in the after you got out of the National?

Medical Crisis, Medevac, And Recovery Path

SPEAKER_00 59:43

After I got out, yeah. I've been home since 2004. Uh, this was probably 2006, 7, something like that. So did you deploy with the 1461st then? Well, I deployed with the 1462nd out of Howell. Okay. Because the Howell transport unit is the ones that got mobilized.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Okay. And they needed to detachment.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

You were in the 61st, but you We went, 36 of us went over as rear detachment because in any military deployment, the unit getting deployed has to have what they call a certain MTO requirement numbers. And if they don't have enough people in their unit, they have to draw from as many units around the state. Then if they still can't make it, then they have to go out of state. Right. Like when the 1461st got deployed the last time that Matt Soper, Sergeant Matthew Soper, was um unfortunately killed in action uh in IRA. June 6th of 2007. Um, they uh had an MTO of 301. So they actually ended up having to pull even from Fort Hood, Texas, transport soldiers.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

I know when I deployed, we brought people from Connecticut and Florida and all kinds of places.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

Yeah, when we we ended up with the Howell unit, we ended up picking up the 1080th.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Um we even picked up um troops out of Fort Stewart, Georgia. Yeah. When we flew to Georgia, we picked up more troops to make that MTO of 180 something.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

Yeah. So you did your train up at Fort McCoy then? That's like 90 days or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Yes, we were there. We drove up um right after New Year's Day, and we were up there until March 18th, 2004. Talk about cold. We did our training.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

Great desert training in Fort McCoy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

We did our three-day desert training 45 below zero. Good thing they issue the Mickey Mouse boots. Right. I I wish I had a pair of those even today.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

They are very warm.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

They are very warm. You could put your barefoot in those things.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

And uh we they issued Gore-Tex, that's what they issue now, yeah, for uh wind-resistant, waterproof, and all that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

So that's great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

Um, but yeah, we did three days, and then March 18th, they put us on a plane headed for Kuwait, and it was 22 degrees and snowing that morning. When we landed in Kuwait, it was 87 degrees. Yeah, the same day. Somehow you go 13 hours and you you leave at 6 a.m. from Wisconsin, you land in Kuwait at 1.30 in the afternoon on the same day.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Very weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

It's a it's like VA disability compensation math. One plus one doesn't equal two.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

No, it equals what they tell you it equals.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

So yeah, we wind wound up in Kuwait, uh 87 degrees, get on and off the plane, and here we got our helmets on and our Kevlar's on, and flat vest and gear and all that. So we spent three weeks training, doing all kinds of training and learning how to fire our M16 while driving in convoys, shoot having the M16 hanging out the window, shooting while you're still driving.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:53

And this was before the U There weren't like up armored Humvees, you were just regular.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Yeah, you weren't up armored at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

We had, in fact, during our convoys, we had a half-inch plexiglass that we weren't allowed, by the way, to fire our weapon into to see if it actually was bulletproof, because that's wrongful discharge of your weapon.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

And we had sandbags on our floorboard and on our air tanks because those are the spots that IEDs or gun, the the Haji can shoot the air tanks, and you're dead in the water once that happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Right. So yeah, we were there. Um yeah, we didn't get to shoot. Uh and so it was interesting driving. We went to Fallujah every day, hauling supplies.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

So where were you based out of then?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

We were based in Camp Anaconda in Bilad. Okay. Which is north of Baghdad, about an hour.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

Yeah, I was in uh Mosul. So I've been I've been to Bilad a couple of times myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

So but yeah, we got to the LSA of Anaconda's logistics depot, basically. It's where everything came in, and then everything got distributed out to the whole country.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

So where you got all those parts that you couldn't we even have with you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Yeah, we we took in took connex boxes, we took pallets, um, they would actually stack one pallet, and then we would stack a second pallet, and then we would run cargo netting over those, some 40 foot high, because the overpasses in Iraq are not 10 foot seven or 14.2, they're like 35 and 40 feet.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Yeah, so you can really move some stuff through there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Right. So, yeah, we ended up um I was there and then Memorial Day 2004. I got up after making a dual run to the camp on the backside of Fallujah, and I stood up and fell out of my bunk. I thought, five-foot bunk, six four, soldier. No big deal. Collected myself, took a few steps, bam, down I go again. Okay, what's wrong? I still hadn't figured it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Went to my squad later, went to the platoon sergeant, he sent me up to the truck master. The truck master being a retired ranger, army ranger, you truck drivers, bleep bleep, you'll do anything to get out of a mission, won't you? You big wussies.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

You know, rangers are, you know, they can eat, they can eat nuts and bolts for breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:52

Right, right. Yeah, and if you get your legs shut off, you just drink water.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

That's right. He sent me the sick call. Get the sick call, the sergeant at the desk takes my temp. 104. He said, Sergeant, are you feeling well? I said, Yeah, I just can't figure out what's going on. He said, Well, you shouldn't be because you got 104 temps. Those that don't know, it's 105 degrees at 8 a.m. in Iraq. Going up to somewhere between 115 and 130 for the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:26

Not a lot of air conditioning there.

School At 42: From Statistics To Communication

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

No, no air conditioning. Now the two two fifty-five air, two windows down, 55 miles an hour air. Yeah. And we so he got the colonel. They called me into the evaluation room. He said, Sergeant, drop your trousers. I dropped my trousers and he's like, Sergeant, have you looked at your leg this morning, sir? I said, no, sir. He said, you might want to look down. I looked down, and from my knee down to my ankle was as red as the coffee cup I'm drinking right now. It was swelled up to 18.6 inches. My ankle was 10.5 inches. You could feel the heat radiating about four or five inches above my leg. He says, This is the worst-case cellulitis staph infection I've ever seen. What had occurred was jumping in and out of the truck during ambush attacks, I caused an abrasion on the end of my big toe on my left foot. And the bacteria, because over there, Iraqis are allowed to do their business in the sand. You get all those animals doing their thing in the sand. The sand had actually gotten into my boots, obviously, and caused the bacteria to form. Probably, they figure about two weeks prior to this incident, and it showed itself. And he said that if I would have waited till noon that day, they would have been scraping me out of the motor pool. Because what would have happened is if that would have found a spot through my waist, which by the way, my lip nodes were swelled up as big as my fist on both sides. The infection had already started to travel into my right leg. But if it had found a spot through my waistline, it would have caused me to have a fatal stroke, a fatal heart attack, a fatal blood clot, or they'd have been forced to cut my leg off at my knee to save my life. So they put me in the cache, which is the like mash unit. It's a field hospital.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:11

Yep, combat surgical hospital, I think is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

And their mortar attacks came in, and I had you had to jump down off the hospital bed and take cover. And of course, my leg was stretched to the point that if it would have stretched any further, it began to shred open.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

And so I was there for three days. Then they put me on the flight line with an Air Force Major. Uh the night before they flew me to Lonststuhl, to Rammstein, Germany, and eventually Londstuhl hospital. My blood pressure dropped to 86 over 54. And the major was highly concerned about putting me on a C-130 because the C-130 is not a hospital ship. Right. It is an air vessel that's just a transport. They transport hospitalization troops to Germany. So, anyways, uh they took a chance. She was actually a professor from medicine from the University of Missouri, and she actually asked me if I could be a case study for her when she returned to the States for lecture. So I signed a waiver and everything. So I actually became one of those case studies.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:41

Famous for not a good reason, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Yeah, famous for not a good reason. And so I got to Rammstein, they bust me to launch to a hospital. I laid in that bed for four and a half days. I was in a room with three other really super banged-up soldiers that were a hundred times worse off than I was. And when I each time, because of the infection, each time that I got out of my bunk to go to the bathroom, it took me about 15 minutes to walk 25, 30 feet, because the blood was rushing down into the infection and it was trying to push my leg outward. And there was no place for it to go because my leg was at that point of the infection of swelling. So they ended up flying me. Um I I got the opportunity to go to Liechtenstein, Germany. Cost me like 80 bucks in American money for the cab. I went to Liechtenstein, went to the oldest castle in German history, got some beautiful photos, and asked actually for a I wanted a Coke or diet Coke, and they gave me a bottle of spritzer water because soda over there means something different. Right. Right. And I didn't have I had my interpretation book, but I was trying to find how to ask for an actual Coke. Um, but you know, when I got off into Germany, when I get off the plane, the air quality had completely changed. It went from that dense dead smell from Iraq to fresh air. And so I knew I was, you knew you're in better quality, but I ended up um five days there, then they flew me to Andrews Air Force Base, um, where I got to see the tale of Air Force One because President Reagan had died, and they flew his body to Washington. And then they flew me. This is a military understanding, they flew flew me from Andrews to Scott Air Force Base in Illinois. Why they did that? I don't know. I'm not the one in charge.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

Right.

Serving Veterans: Peer Support And Leadership

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

And I got to meet a two-star general who was a former truck master, asked me about up armoring on vehicles. Oh, sir, you're the wrong, I'm the wrong soldier to ask that question. And so he was taken in, he was taken kind of a survey to find out from troops in the field, uh, downrange, coming back, and what their thoughts on the up armor. So I gave him a story for a piece of your mind. And then ended up, uh, they flew me to, after five days, they flew me to Fort Knox, Kentucky, where I spent four and a half months in medical hold unit going over to the clinic every day until the colonel ordered me not to come to his clinic unless I had other medical needs.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

So you're just kind of there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Yep, I was there and uh we worked the hospital floor, which now the hospital no longer exists. They've torn it down. Um Ireland Army Hospital, I think is what the name of it was. Um no longer exists. Uh got to go on Fort Knox here several years ago when Lieutenant Dan Band came and performed with Gary Sinisi. And it I was lost. Even though I knew my way around Fort Knox, I couldn't find my way to nothing. Yeah, they changed. And you Google how to just get to the PX. Right. But uh yeah, that was my that's my whole story of uh my my Iraq deployment from and then November they told me um November 3rd, the major told me you have two choices. You can stay in or you can get out. If you stay in, because you're not deployable, you're not promotable, right? And you'll remain in E5 until your 60th birthday. And I wasn't going to be told what to do by a 25-year-old that had less time in the military than I had time in life.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:34

So I got out and came back home January 2006. The VA under Volkrihab program sent me to Jackson Community College, where at 42 years old I started my college career. And I finished with an associates in business administration, a certificate in marketing. Then I transferred to Eastern Michigan University.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

That's a blast from your past, right? That's where you wanted to go to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

So full circle of life actually is real.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

And I returned to Eastern Michigan in September of 09. I started in marketing, but I could never pass business statistics.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

That is that is a listen out there, that's a hard class.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Very hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:25

Yeah, that's a tough.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

In fact, even algebra, I spent more time in the tutor lab just to get a B minus because I didn't I couldn't never solve for X.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

I didn't understand the concept of these letters and numbers, of why math is come to find out it's it's logistical reasoning. That's the answer that all these mathematicians say. It's logistical reasoning. If you can solve those type of problems, you can solve any problem in life. There you go. Regardless. And so I ended up couldn't pass, and the VA said, Well, we ain't gonna continue to pay. So I changed my major to communication. Those that don't know, out there, April of 1991, I joined an organization called Toastmasters International because I was in the JC's organization, and the JC's had a speak up competition. And I never won at the state level because I never got feedback until April of 91, joining Toastmasters. And for five years I worked on the same speech on the last line of the JC's Creed, where service to humanity is the best work of life. In May of 1996, in front of 750 Michigan JCs, my name was selected as the state champion of speak up, where I had to deliver that speech that I had been working on for five years. Fast forward now, I go to Eastern Michigan, change to communication, graduate with a bachelor's in communication, started my master's program until December of 14, where they allowed me to walk and graduate, but I hadn't quite finished because I had three credits left. Mom took ill from a fall, she ended up having multiple hip surgeries and sadly July of 2006. Or 2016, excuse me. She ended up passing. And so I took a four-year hardship, leave Eastern, sent that letter that says, if you don't return, you'll have to start your program all over. And I know that we ain't gonna pay another hundred thousand dollars for my degree. So I returned in September of 2020. And April of 2021, I finished my master's degree in communication, where over that course of nine years I took 56 different communication classes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:27

Congratulations. That's an accomplishment. Yeah. Well, sometimes it just takes a little time to get things done.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

So instead of graduating at 22 or 25 with a master's, I graduated at 57 with a master's.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:44

No, I was a youngster when I got my master's. I was 50.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:48

I had just turned 50 when I completed my nice 50 year old uh birthday present.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot.

Suicide Prevention, HBOT Advocacy, And The Book

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

And then I um I became employed at Lifeways, uh huh. Health in January of 2018. I went to peer certification school and become a state certified peer support specialist where I worked in crisis services. And then the last two years, uh, prior to retirement last October 3rd, I worked specifically with veterans and their families, providing hope and help and resources. Retired October 3rd and got appointed as the newest board member in November of 2025. So my full circle of life, I went from uh consumer of services for two failed suicide attempts, August of 1999, February of 2001, to an employee to a board member.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:02

Well, let's not forget that you were the guy working the minimum wage jobs.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Right. I was the 58 job minimum wage guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:10

58, yeah, yeah. And a suicide survivor, and here you are now helping other people.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

Helping them the I've been now for the last seven years appointed as the Michigan VFW mental health director. I'm the um I'm a candidate for District 6 commander starting uh next June, or this coming June, actually. And I'm the founder of Beacon for Hope LLC, where hope stands for helping one person every day. And last August, after eight years of hard work, I published my first book, My Dark Shadow from a Suicidal Self to a Purpose of Hope.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:53

That's incredible. I'll be reading that book because I think that's my copy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:57

That is your copy. I just need to autograph it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:59

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So, really, what an interesting life. You know, it's an and I think it it's it's right to say it's just never too late to continue to be the best person that you can be. That's right.

unknown 1:23:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

Best version every day you wake up if you haven't. I the the helping one person every day concept, I believe, is important because for the most part, a lot of people didn't help me specifically per se. Right. I didn't have when I was in crisis mode for nearly seven years with deep depression and the suicide attempts, I didn't have peer supports. I didn't have the supports like I do today. People maybe in the background in lots of areas helped me, but not on the forefront.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:56

Yeah, not directly.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

Not directly, indirectly, they did. And that's what my message that I speak. You know, the book, it's not intended to make me a lot of money, it's intended to save lives because we know besides what the VA reports of only 17 suicides a day, the reality numbers somewhere around 40 to 43 a day. And that doesn't even include our active duty. I know three years ago, 547 active duty members took their life. 15 of them were National Guard members. So we know that suicide is an epidemic. Yes, it's been going since the 30s, but it doesn't have to be a way of life. In fact, I learned last Wednesday at a Veterans Breakfast in Brooklyn that happens every first Wednesday from 8 to 10 for free. Um, we learned that a young 32-year-old veteran, part of the VFW in Lambertville, took his life over the holidays, leaving behind a wife and two young children. So the book isn't to, I'm not trying to get rich off this book. I'm trying to prevent another suicide amongst our active duty and our military and our young people. We have over 10,000 young people in this country take their life between eight years old and 17 years old every year. And we know that there's other alternatives with coping skills and the resiliency. We know that currently the state legislative house right now is before them. They have House Bill hyperbaric oxygen treatment therapy that is getting ready to get voted on. We want to make hyperbaric oxygen treatment therapy available for veterans and non-veterans, but primarily for veterans, because we we know through research that hyperbaric oxygen treatment is an opportunity for this the military person to go into for 53 minutes. They get 100% medical grade oxygen pumped into the chamber, and it starts to repair all the broken red blood vessels that cause traumatic brain injury, military sexual trauma, post-traumatic stress, and foot ulcers and diabetics, along with a plethora of other blood order diseases. And I know a good friend of mine, Kevin Hensley, who's a stout advocate. He's part of the initiative that got the PACT Act passed. He he, along with three others, wrote a book called The Promise. And their stories, because of Burn Pitts, he suffers from respiratory uh illness. And he knows that his life won't be a long-lived, but he knows we continue to work with the state legislator, um, state representative Kathy Schmaltz, who I testified in front of her House Committee of Veterans and Family Affairs, uh back on March 25th. We know that um hyperbaric is the way to help prevent these suicides, because if you can reduce the post-traumatic stress and TBI and MST, military sexual trauma, in people, it will literally reduce their thoughts of wanting to kill themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

So a lot there. And and you know, if you look at your lifetime uh right up till the point where we're talking today, you've continued to serve uh inside and outside of the military.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:20

And I I will until I take my last breath. In fact, I may, a good lord, I'm if I'm allowed into the heavenly pearly gates, I may be up there.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:32

Well, you hung out. You hung out with the nuns for five years, so I'm I'm gonna assume that that's that's a given. So we've talked about a lot of stuff today, Doug. Uh you know, your life has been fascinating. I've known you for a while, didn't know all of this about you. So uh it's what I wrote the book for.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:48

Yeah, I put 130 pages of my whole life into this book, and people say only 130 pages? Yeah, I've touched on every piece of what I've just shared. I've touched on in this book for the most part, with the exception of a couple of things. But they're small chapters. It's designed not to go deep into the weeds of each story because I want to. So the name of your book is My Dark Shadow from a Suicidal Self to a Purpose of Hope, where hope stands for helping one person every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:46

And where can you get that?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:48

They can get it in Amazon, through the Amazon bookstore, through the Barnes and Noble bookstore online, through Dorance Publishing, which is my publisher of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, through their bookstore, or they can contact me directly through social media and they can get a hard copy. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:09

All right. So again, we've covered a lot um today. I appreciate you coming out. I just have one more question for you. For someone listening to this, say 100 years from now, um, what message would you like to leave people with?

Legacy, Benefits, And A Message Of Hope

SPEAKER_00 1:30:27

I believe that something I learned from a veteran last year, and he said, when we raised our hand and said, so help me God, that is the day our benefits begin to start being earned. Many of our veterans feel that they don't deserve to get their disability compensation. They don't deserve to be enrolled in VA health care because they didn't serve 20 years, what have you. These are the veterans that actually should be getting their benefits. They should be enrolled in VA health care. They should be a member of the Veterans Foreign Wars Organization or the American Legion or the Disabled American Veterans or Vietnam veterans, because no one does more for veterans than the VFW. But we've got an opportunity to change the landscape where suicide is no longer an epidemic amongst veterans and their families, no longer an epidemic among acts of duty. And more importantly, the veteran needs to know that their life matters every moment of every day, of every minute that they serve. No matter what they do, if they're helping one person be a better version of themselves every day, they're actually helping themselves be a better version of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:23

All right. Well, thank you for that. Thanks for coming out here today. Thank you. You're welcome.