From Foster Care To The Marine Corps (Calvin Jones)

A kid from Lansing gets pulled out of a stable home, dropped into foster care, and learns to survive by becoming self-sufficient. Years later, a draft letter and the shadow of Vietnam force a choice that still feels raw: run from service, or step into it. We talk with Calvin Jones, a United States Marine Corps veteran, about what it took to choose the Marine Corps, what Parris Island boot camp did to his mind and body, and the moments that proved teamwork is not a motivational phrase, it is a survival skill.

Calvin shares vivid stories from training and overseas duty in Okinawa, including the fear of getting called into a real mission and the pride that comes with earning rank through discipline. Then we follow the transition every veteran understands: coming home to a country that does not always know what to do with you. Calvin turns that tension into fuel, building a decades-long career at the Lansing Board of Water and Light and helping shape the culture of a public utility from the inside.

We dig into leadership in the energy industry, workforce development, storm response lessons, and how diversity, equity, and inclusion change when you create real pathways to move up. Calvin also explains what lobbying and advocacy look like when you build relationships before you need anything, and why representation matters for young people who are still deciding what’s possible. If you care about resilience, veteran stories, public service, and the kind of leadership that leaves a place better than you found it, hit play, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Guest Intro And Lansing Roots

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today is Monday, April 13th. We're talking with Calvin Jones, who served in the United States Marine Corps. So good evening, I think it is now, isn't it, Calvin? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It is. Yeah. Well thank you for taking thanks for taking time out to talk with me today. My pleasure. Well, we'll get started. I'm going to ask probably the first and easiest question. Oh boy. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Well, I was born um in Lansing, Michigan, in uh 1953. I was born right here in Lansing at Sparrow Hospital to uh Dupree and Rachel Jones.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

So you grew up in Lansing your whole life?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Okay. All right. Well, tell me a little bit about your parents.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

My dad was uh a World War II veteran. Uh-huh, and uh he came home and um, you know, raised a family. Uh he he told us some stories about um, you know, being in the army, and uh he was a cook. And uh, you know, we we heard his experiences often in terms of of what he did and what went what was going on, that type thing. Uh he he worked at the uh at the time it was called the State Highway Department Um here in uh in Lansing, Michigan. And um he was one of two um African American men that actually worked at that place. My mother was uh a housekeeper, um, and um, you know, she took care of us kids and uh took care of the house, and uh, you know, we had uh you know very nice uh upbringing, that type thing. And and um, you know, we were very fortunate to to live the lifestyle that we did. Yeah, what about brothers and sisters? Mm-hmm. I'm the oldest of of seven. Seven? And yeah, I'm the oldest of seven, and uh two have have since perished, but uh the other four uh you know they live here in Lansing, Chicago, and Washington State.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah, so what was it like being the oldest with that many kids, with that many brothers and sisters? That's almost a basketball team or a softball team.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

It is, and um I I was very fortunate being the oldest. Uh uh, I pretty much looked out for my brothers and sisters, and uh, you know, I I was a good kid in school. I loved music and um I got along with my my classmates and everything. So for me it was uh you know just a life of you know leisure and learning and growing and and uh you know learning about Lansing and just enjoying as much of everything as I did. We were a church-going family, um and uh every Sunday, you know, we were in church, and you know, it was I don't know, I I didn't really know what was going on around me, but you know, I'd be chewing gum and I wasn't supposed to be chewing gum in church. That's universal. Yeah, exactly. You know, but I didn't know, but you know, and then you know they had me do an Easter speech, uh Christmas speech, uh, when those times came, uh came up as well. And um, you know, I I was shy at first, but once I started, it was like, no, I can do this, I can make this happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, so you've always kind of had a a gift for public speaking then.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I think so. And I enjoy it too, and and even today I I thoroughly enjoy the public speaking aspect of things. I consider myself a lifelong learner, and uh, I'm always working hard to learn something new and uh find better ways to get along with people, uh, irrespective of where they are in in life. So that's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Okay. Well, speaking of being a lifelong learner, let's talk a little bit about school. Where did you go to grade school then?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Mm-hmm. Well, I started out at Cedar Street School on the north side of town, and then that building was torn down, uh, and then I went to um Willow Street School, and uh then I went to Otto Middle School, and that's when my uh we moved to the east side of town. And so I started out at Walder French, and uh then I went over to Patengale and uh graduated from Eastern High School.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

So

Parents, Church, And Early Confidence

SPEAKER_00 4:14

interestingly enough, I graduated, I went to Patangale, graduated from Eastern, so did my mom, so did my father-in-law, all my uncles went there.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Man, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Those were fun times. Quite a tradition.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah. So how was it for you growing up in Lansing? Did did you enjoy it? Did you have a great childhood? What are what are some of the things that interested you?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, my childhood wasn't always great. Um at um uh an early age, my my mother and father uh separated and they eventually divorced. Um and, you know, my father was uh uh when he wasn't drunk, he was a nice guy. But when he was drunk, he was Superman. And he was just a little guy, so he wasn't a real Superman. Right. And uh, you know, I kept wondering why, you know, we'd be driving down the street and we'd be running up on uh we'd be bumping into the curb, upping into different people's cars and stuff like that. People were always mad at my dad. I didn't understand that, any of that. So um, you know, uh one day the state came in and they took my brothers and sisters and um they put us in foster homes. And um, you know, uh at I all I know is at an early age, you know, uh they came in um in the in the heat of the night. And uh, you know, my father had, you know, he had done some terrible things to my mother, and they didn't give us any uh any explanation at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

And then we were um uh put into a different foster homes. Uh my brother and sister, they stayed with, we stayed as a group for a while, and then we transitioned to some other homes, and then finally um my brother and myself, we went to a home, a religious home, that type thing. And you know, I didn't understand any of that. They didn't let us talk with our mother or father about anything. I didn't, you know, I was taken from uh a well-kept home, a comfortable environment, and put into an environment I had never experienced before. Um, but the family that I lived with were just excellent, uh excellent people. Um the man uh the man that uh was the man of the home, Mr. Davis, um uh he was a religious man. He had uh he was uh you know a veteran as well. I think he was the Navy. Um and uh there again, his wife, um Mrs. Davis, and Miriam, um she was a stay-at-home mother, and they already had four kids. So we joined that group. Now I wasn't the oldest in that group, so I had to kind of learn, you know, my place in all of it, that type thing. Right. Um, but I soon learned that, you know, being in that family, um, you know, I I had some talents that the rest of them didn't have. I could sing. And so, of course, every time we went to church, you know, people wanted me to sing, that type thing, and I did. Um and, you know, I learned to play the piano a little bit and learned to play a few other instruments a little bit, that type thing. Uh, but I most enjoyed playing football in the street. Um I didn't really play basketball very well, but I found in an early age I was very fast. Uh-huh. Uh, and I was only fast because um uh the bike that I had was a girl's bike. And I rode that bike all over the neighborhood. I rode it everywhere. Uh, you know, uh I got teased about riding a girl's bike and everything, but you know, I learned how to do a wheelie uh, you know, for an entire block. Right. And I could do different things on that bike that no one else could. I learned to put a chain on that bike. I learned to grease the uh chain on that bike, I learned to fix the flat tire, I learned to, you know, apply spokes on the wheels, that type thing. And this was all through a lot of experimental uh stuff, but that's what I had to do. I had one bike and that was it. I had to make it last. I had to make it last. And all the clothing that I received was pretty much it was hand-me-down clothing. So, I mean, when the older um the older boys in the house, you know, when they were done with the clothing that they had, you know, I pretty much wore the uh rundown uh pants and stuff that they had, that type thing. So I I became very used to ironing patches on my jeans. Uh I became very used to uh learning how to sew, uh, how to put buttons on different things, that type thing, how to sew holes in my shirt, how to sew uh holes in my socks, whatever it needed to be. Um, because a lot of it was self-sufficient. And you either did it or you went without.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

So I learned to adjust. And uh then at about 13 years of age, um, my mother was fortunate enough to uh buy a home on the east side of town, and we were able to come back um back home as a family. Um and in the meantime, I didn't know where my brothers and sisters were, and I didn't contact them for about seven or eight years because I didn't know where they were. Right. But as I began to play basketball or football, I'm sorry, as I began to play football um and uh went out for midget tackle football,

Foster Care And Self Sufficiency

SPEAKER_01 9:45

and they promised me an opportunity to be the running back, and that didn't happen. So I let it, I paid them back when I played linebacker. I was just a scrawny kid, but I tried to I tried to tear their helmets off when they came around my side. Uh that's how I got the name Deacon Jones. Okay. Um because I was fearless. I would get I would I would run into the biggest guy there and just knock him out of the way and you know get to the running back and try to just put him into the ground. Yeah, and they wouldn't give me my chance at playing running back. It was more political than anything else. Right. But I learned through that process that, you know, I could I could do some things out there and and make a difference for for the team. So I said, hey, you know what? If it's the best thing for the team, then uh I'll go ahead and do it. And uh that's uh pretty much gave me an opportunity to do things in the rest of my life that had to do with, you know, serving and doing things in a team concept. All the sports I played, basketball, football, running track, um, it's all been associated with a team effort. And um, you know, the major stuff I did at school was also um, you know, it was all about working together as a team.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Interesting lesson for a young man to learn. Oh, yeah. Especially with everything that had gone on before.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

And to say I was to say I wasn't bitter about the experience, I was. Um changes. I never understood why, you know, we were taken out of out of the home. Right. And I didn't understand why the state didn't allow us to, you know, talk with our parents and and brothers and sisters and stuff like that. So I acted out and and lo and behold, I was smart enough to, you know, get a gang that uh went around terrorizing the neighborhood. I mean, we'd go running up to a house, knock on the door, and then run, you know, or you know, sometimes we'd uh, you know, we'd pack snowballs and throw snowballs at cars and watch the taillights get real red and everything, and then we'd take off. Needless to say, I was always fast. They never caught me. Sometimes they'd catch people in my gang, but they never caught me. But it was just fun stuff. But it was, you know, it was detrimental to anything I wanted to do. I sat in the teacher's or the principal's office. I learned to uh have excellent penmanship because uh, you know, I would always have to write in the principal's office. I will not fight, I will not fight, I will not fight. You know, they made me write it, I don't know, 500,000 times or something. Uh but you know, when it came conference time, they said, wow, when he's in school, you know, he's a great student. But when he's coming to school and when he's going home, he's a little devil. You're working out those aggressions directly. And I guess I was, you know, I guess I was, you know. But lo and behold, in middle school, I had it dawned on me, you know, all the people in my gang were people that I'd beaten up, and I pretty much told them what to do. And, you know, it it dawned on me as you know, parties came up and everything else I was never invited to attend. And so I had to change my behavior, and I was very fortunate that I was able to, you know, see my way to making that change because you know that that kind of uh that kind of track would have would have certainly you know ended up with me in being in prison.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Oh yeah.

unknown 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, not a not a good path. No, not at all. But interesting, like that's a pretty young age to have that sort of self-awareness to say I gotta do something different or this isn't gonna turn out well.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, yeah. And and it may have been that way because as I was thinking about it in middle school and then going to uh uh the big school, which at the time I thought I was going to Sexton, uh, you know, because we lived on the northwest side of town. Yeah, uh, I started thinking about, hmm, you know, I'm just a little scrawny guy. And some of those guys are like grown men. So maybe I better start making some friends, you know, because I don't think I'm I'm I'm a pretty good fighter, but uh those guys could uh pick me up and just slam me down. I wasn't uh uh I wasn't an overly big guy, I was a scrawny kid, but you know, I knew enough to fight, but uh you know, I I didn't no, I wouldn't I wasn't in the heavyweight division.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

No, and someday they were gonna figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah, exactly. I was still a bantamweight, and it was like, hey, you know what? Yeah, you're pretty good, you know, with your hands and and stuff like that, dealing with, you know, kids your own age as far as fighting that type of thing, but no, that's not gonna work. But yeah, I was able to realize I had to I had to change some things because I just felt so much left uh left out of things that um all the other kids were going to, they go to parties and stuff, and I was never invited because I was always considered a troublemaker. Um so I I figured it out and I was able to make some transitions and and uh you know then uh you know become more accepted by my community and and that type of thing. So it worked out well.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

So as you made these changes and you transitioned into high school, what was high school like for you? Did you have any favorite subjects? Did you continue playing sports? Yeah. Did you get invited to some parties? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

High school was a transition year for me, uh, because I've I've always seen myself as a leader. So going to Eastern High School at the time I went, um uh, you know, I uh and social studies was my favorite subject. I I learned about social studies, I learned about Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln,

Trouble, Sports, And Choosing Better

SPEAKER_01 15:29

all of the presidents and the different things that they did. But and we had encyclopedias at home, so I um I would uh read the uh books every now and then, read about the history and that kind of good stuff, and I always did well in history. Um but one day it became obvious to me there are no there were no black people in the history books. And so I asked my teacher about it, and she says, well, you know, just go with the books that you have. And so I learned about um, you know, I learned about the Black Panther Party, I learned about uh Malcolm X, uh, I was uh in the throes of learning about Martin Luther King, some folks that I didn't hear a great uh deal about in school, that type thing. And then so I wrote about them. And um I wasn't an exceptionally good writer, but I knew enough to go to the encyclopedia and write things down that were in the cycle in the encyclopedia, that type thing. Um one day my social study teacher um he gave me my report back, um, and it was he had red markers all over the thing, and you know, he gave me uh my first E, my first F. And I said, He said, uh, where'd you get this junk? And I said, Well, I got it from the encyclopedia. And he said, Why? I said, Because we bought the encyclopedias and that's where I get my information. He said, none of this is true. I said, What do you mean none of this is true? He said, You go back and and research it at the library. I want you to read these books, read these magazines, and then I want you to bring it back to me. I said, Man, I said, Yeah. I said, Mr. Hollister, I said, you're you're just full of junk. I said, You're a white man, you don't know anything about this. He says, Cal, I was there. I was there at Russia University when the police came to the university and took out their bully clubs and knocked us around. I was there. I said to myself, I'll never judge a book by its cover ever, ever again. And I went back and I I researched all the stuff that he talked about, and he was absolutely right. And so I took the time to write it out, put my footnotes in it and everything, and that's when I took uh my education uh, you know, quite seriously then. Uh Mr. Hollister uh was David Hollister. Uh David Hollister was a brilliant teacher at Eastern. He went on to be a long-serving representative for uh Lansing. He went on to be mayor. Um every time he needed something, I was there to help him out, help him out in his campaign, help him in any way that I can. Matter of fact, I think last year I took him to an event at Sperrell, uh, oh no, at MSU, uh, you know, to uh one of the economic luncheons. But he was the guy that really made a change in my life to to really study and understand what I'm writing about and take the time to, you know, make sure that it's absolutely correct. And uh from then on I said, I'll never judge a book by its cover again. Nope. But he was the teacher that made a difference in my life. Uh up to that point, I was I was a decent student, I was a jock, you know, I played football, I learned to play basketball later in life. Um I traveled a lot when I uh, you know, had the ball, that type of thing, but I knew my advantage was speed. So I used my speed on the basketball court to get by my opponent, and then I played uh defense, you know, making sure that I could jump and, you know, knock the ball out of the air before the shot went off, that type thing. So I was a decent athlete. I wasn't a great athlete, but I was a decent athlete and I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

You know, I we probably ran into each other, and here's why. When I was in high school, I went to high school with Jerry Hollister.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Oh, yeah. And when uh Jerry's his son, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

So when he was running, I don't I don't remember which seat, but they did uh they did a pig roast at his house. They all in the backyard, yeah. So we uh Jerry, myself, and a bunch of of my high school buddies were there helping helping out with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

So we probably crossed paths. We probably crossed paths.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

When you said Hollister, I thought, no way he's talking about Dave Hollister.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yes, that's that's my guy. Yes, that's my guy. Yeah. He and Christine, his wife, uh, you know, they send me Christmas cards every year. I send them back, I check on him, you know, he's going through some health issues now. But um, I still, you know, uh take the time to go over and and say hi to him and see what's going on, that type of thing. And he remembers the lesson he taught me. So we gained a friendship early on in life, and we continue that today.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Do you find that that it's kind of true though, that no matter how successful we are, there's always those people like behind the scenes that helped us get there.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Oh yeah. You know, oh yeah, definitely. And I never forget them because, you know, um in where I'm at today, you know, people would say, Wow, I want your job, I want your life, that type thing, but they don't know what I went through to get where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

That's why I tell them, no, you don't, you know, you see, you know, the polish and everything in terms of where I'm at now, but from what I went through, you I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

That's what I had to go through.

unknown 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

So it sounds like high school was a great learning experience for you. And um, so what happens after high school?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Well, um, when I went to uh after high school, I went to LCC. Um I started out there. Um I didn't have a strong instructor like Mr. Hollister, so I played chess most of the day. Uh-oh. I go to the library and you know, find people that uh could, you know, play uh, you know, some chess. I learned to uh the art of chess real easy. And uh, you know, I spent most of my time in a library. Um I I took some courses at LCC. I really wasn't interested

After High School And The Draft

SPEAKER_01 21:34

in it. Um, you know, and and my grades, my grades bore that out.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I started working at a place called uh Speaker Heinz and Thomas over on Thomas Street. It's a uh book magazine place. Um and I started out as an apprentice, and I said to myself, I'm doing this, but this is not really what I want to do. It doesn't excite me, and I don't have anything to motivate me. So I said to myself, well, it's probably time for me to get out of here and go someplace else because I'm just I'm I'm not happy here. I'm not doing anything. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not interested in school. I'm not interested in, you know, doing a lot of laborious work or anything like that. So I said, Well, you know, I guess if I get laid off, I'm gonna look at my military options and see what's available there. And then lo and behold, I received um a left a letter from the United States government saying that uh the draft was still in effect. Um here's your number. And uh you're welcome to go to the um um the station in Detroit and you know get signed up and do those kinds of things that needed to be done. Now, even though I said I was interested in the military, the Vietnam War was going on. And every night, well not every night, but most nights, I would be at the television watching uh Walter Cronkite talk about the Vietnam War.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

He always talked about how many of the Vietnamese were killed, and he also talked about how many of the Americans were killed. There were always more Vietnamese killed than there were Americans. But I knew something was up because most of my friends who did go in the military, um, you know, they came back in a body bag. And I said, Well, if we're really winning the war, why are we there? Why are my friends coming back in the state that they are? And I never understood why we were there in the first place. People were marching, people were uh parading on the streets uh against the war, and I guess I just didn't understand it either. But I knew as a young man, I said, you know what? I've always been in a team concept, so I gotta find a way to, you know, represent this country one way or another. But I knew from the examples of what was coming back home. You know, friends and relatives were coming back, you know, missing arms, they didn't, they missed an eye, they missed that and the other. They didn't really talk about what was really going on. Right. So I said to myself, I I'm interested in going. If I have to go, I'm I'm I'm gonna do my best to make sure that the other person dies for this country, for their country, because I'm not dying for this country. And I also had to challenge with maybe I should go to Canada. Maybe I should just leave because I don't know enough about this war to put my life on the line. So I thought a lot about going to Quebec and uh, you know, hiding out there or living there or whatever. And I prayed about it and and uh and then I finally came to the resolution, hey man, you know what? So many of your family have gone to represent this country. It's your time. And I went uh to the duty station and I took my test for the airport or the air force. And uh they said, yeah, you score high on the ACT, you score high on this, that, and the other thing. You know, yeah, we'll we'll get you going. I said, Well, how soon can I leave? They said, we'll put you down for one year and you can leave then. I went back, I thought about it, and I said, you know what? What am I gonna do for the next year?

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah besides get into some trouble. Year is a long time for a young man.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

A long time, man. That was like light years away.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

So I went, I looked at, you know, getting in the Navy, and I looked at the Army. And mind you, looking at the Navy, I was uh I was a decent swimmer. I wasn't a great swimmer. And I said, no, I'm not going out there on the boat somewhere and uh fall off and and I can't even save myself. I said it's not gonna happen. Army, you know, most of my family had been in the army, that type thing. You know, it just didn't seem like, you know, it just didn't seem like it was the right fit for me. So I also read about the uh uh Air Uh Air Force. I knew enough about the Air Force, I said, well, I'll try the Marine Corps and see what they have to say. And when I went over there, I was so shocked that um, you know, all the information they gave me, it seemed to fit, you know, who I was.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

And I went back home, talked to my parents about it, and talked to my neighbors and family about it. And they said, Kell, are you crazy? Are you crazy? I said, man, they we never heard of a black Marine. Never, ever heard of a black Marine. So them them bad Marines will kill you. So all they got is big, thick white boys who will kill you. And I said to myself, you know what? If I'm on their team, you know, you know, they're not gonna kill me because we have, you know, we have to do what we need to do to represent the country. Right. And I said, you know what? I've grown up as a fighter anyway. So I said, if they're that talented, then imagine, you know, if I'm gonna go to war with somebody, I want to go with the biggest, baddest, meanest people in the world who can actually, you know, end this war and get us back home, that type thing. Right. Well, uh again, my family gave me a lot of resistance in terms of not going and not knowing anything about the Marine Corps, and they just didn't want me to go. But I went anyway. And I signed up, and then when I went there, um, you know, yeah, uh I went to Paris Island, South Carolina. And Mark, and you know, I throughout my life, I had been more of a homeboy. Um, the furthest I'd gone outside the state of Michigan was Youngstown, Ohio. I had never gone anywhere else. I never went north, I never went south. The furthest I had ever gone was Youngstown, Ohio. That was it.

Why The Marine Corps Won

SPEAKER_01 28:26

So going to Paris Island was a big leap for me. I didn't know what I was getting into. Right. And I didn't, you know, I had read some things about boot camp and stuff like that, and it's like, I can handle this. This is easy peasy. Oh man. Uh they put us on the bus. We went down there, we got down there in the middle of the night, the guy came storming on the bus, bussing and cussing at us and everything, put the fear of God in us. And whoo, man, I got out of there with the rest of them. And I I, you know, they had a standing there for it seemed like an eternity, uh, you know, getting our stuff, getting our uh t-shirts or skivvies, um, getting a haircut. They asked me what kind of haircut I wanted. I had a nice afro, and I said, just trim a little on the side. He said, Welcome, sure. I will. Boom, boom, boom. I said, Oh my God, that's not what I asked for. He said, Who are you? I said, No, sir, I'm I'm fine, I'm fine. Right. And and uh the more I looked around, you know, everybody looked like me. They were getting their heads shaved off and everything. And uh, you know, it was it was I knew I was into some serious, serious trouble then.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Did you did you uh uh think about maybe you had misjudged what you were doing at that point?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Absolutely, absolutely. I I thought about it tremendously, but I was too scared, too scared to say anything or and or do anything.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

And there were so many people there that um were you know marine trainees, and some of them were African Americans, and that that was like, oh, okay, you know, hey, this is all right, it's a mixed group, okay, we can bond together, maybe hang out. But man, those drill instructors, every moment of every day, we were fearful of, you know, what could possibly happen, that type thing. And I think we started off with, oh my God, we had, I don't want to say close to a hundred people that wanted to be be Marines, and and a number of them just weren't, just didn't make it. Yeah. I was a sprinter. I was always a sprinter. They gave me the flag, and I was gonna run, I was up the front of the line, and we were running and chanting and doing some things like that. And believe me, I was aware of my circumstances. I said, you know what? I've never gone more than a hundred yards, man. You know, I can speed with the best of them. But you're talking about three miles, four miles. I tried it, man, and I could not make it. And uh, you know, before I uh, you know, fell down or whatever, because I couldn't make it, man. They grabbed a flag, and then there were some uh folks in my squad that, you know, picked me up and and uh we ran all the way in. And at that moment I said, man, I gotta change my whole attitude. I can't I can't come in here and just be me. I gotta follow, and I gotta make sure that I can do this in the future.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

I never got back to the situation of holding the flag, but you know, it was an honor to just start off with it and you know be one of those that uh, you know, was up front, that type thing. Um boot camp was the scariest time of my life. They broke me down like I had never been broken down before. I was too scared to do anything or say anything. So anytime they told me to do anything, I just did it.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Um So let me ask, is this new for you?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yeah. Was that new for you when that had to happen? That was absolutely brand new for me. Yeah. Now remember, I was an oldest child, and I kind of called the shots, and then I went to a foster family. I didn't call all the shots, but I called some of

Boot Camp Fear And Team Discipline

SPEAKER_01 32:11

the shots. Right. But in boot camp, they didn't play any of that.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

You didn't have your gang in boot camp, did you?

SPEAKER_01 32:16

I didn't have nothing. I didn't have nothing. There was nothing, there was nobody but me. And I said to myself, I gotta find a way to graduate and get out of here, you know, with something that says honorable discharge or whatever the case might be. And it wasn't easy. I mean, um, you know, we had pugle stick fighting, and um, I was the champion in terms of pupil stick fighting, not because I was the best or the baddest. I was just too scared to get hit. I I'd I'd fight the biggest guys, the baddest guys out there, but man, I was always leveling the first blow. You know, we had the helmets and everything. I'd get up, wham. I didn't wait for nothing. My I'd go for the head, I'd go for the body, and I didn't quit until the drill instructor pulled me off. Um they they called me a bulldog because yeah, I was tenacious. I said to myself, I'm not gonna take a beating now here from these guys, and I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Um then we went to, oh man, we went to a big tank to which I think was, I don't know if it's a gas tank or whatever, but it was an ammonia tank uh so that you could become familiar with what chemical warfare was, that type thing.

unknown 33:28

I can't do this.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

They went in there, I went in there, shut that, and they let the fumes in, man. Everybody was running, their nose was running and everything else, man. It was not a good sight. No. We had uh swimming, and I was a decent swimmer, um, but nobody ever asked me to jump in a pool with my helmet, my rifle, my boots, my fatigues, my canteen. I said, I can't cake all this stuff around, man. You will. It's amazing what you can do when you have to do it. When you have to do it, yeah, when you have to do it. And I as people jumped into that pool into the deep end and stuff like that, I said, man, this is not a good thing. This is not a good thing. And I wondered why, you know, when we did have a moment standing in line in our in our barracks, I wondered why people asked me, man, can you swim? Can you swim? I said, Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. And then when we got out there and they jumped in the pool or whatever, I never saw so many people who didn't know how to swim.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

And they didn't just get out of the pool. The drill instructors let them struggle with it. You know, they took down some water. They took down some serious water before they would bring them out. And even then, they were cussing them out and stuff like that. And I said to myself, oh gosh, and I don't know how this is gonna work, you know. Yeah, I can swim, but this stuff is heavy. I don't know if this is gonna work. But man, I dove in there and you know, it was hard as all get out. I had never done anything like that in my life. But I I came up and I was able to swim the length, and I was so lucky. But, you know, a lot of that stuff when I was swimming, I tried to take my belt off, my canteen, you know, and stuff like that. They made me go back and get it. But man, I'd never faced anything like that. But in the end, I knew that training would come in in handy because I said, you know, if we do encounter where we have to do something, we're gonna be on a ship, we're gonna have to get off that ship, run to the beach. A number of those brothers couldn't swim.

unknown 35:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

That's why they asked me if I could swim. Right. You could save me. No, I ain't saving you. I I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a lifeguard. I'm not saving you. Well, you know how to swim. I can jump on your back. I said, like, hell you can. You'll be dead. Too busy saving yourself for you. I said, I ain't like that, man. No, no, no, no. Um, so they didn't make it through the swimming stuff. So I guess you know, they went to another platoon where they had to start all over again, that type of thing. But uh uh my mother sent me some cookies uh for my birthday, and uh it wasn't pretty. Uh came to the barracks, drill sergeant uh said, Hey, Joan, get up here. I came out there. Uh somebody sent you a package. You got enough for all of us? I said, I don't know what it is, sir. Open it. I opened it, and it was chocolate chip cookies, and my mother knew I loved chocolate chip cookies. He said, How many are in there? I counted them out and about 10 50. Not enough for everybody? No, no, sir. Put them on the floor. I put them on the floor. I was thinking I was gonna have a chance to pass them out to my colleagues, that type thing. Yeah. Now stamp on them. Step on them. I want you to crush every one of them in that box. And I did. I had to do it. And then of course, we had to work as a team. So if anybody messed up, everybody paid. We did bends and thrusts there and push-ups there more than I could ever count. But I tell you what, there was no giving up because you had to do it. So anytime somebody messed up, you know, at night or whatever, if we had to do a lot of bends and thrusts and push-ups or whatever, we would do blanket parties. We would get that green blanket, get that ivory soap, and beat the mess out of them. And it didn't matter if it was a big person or a small person, it didn't matter. If you got us in trouble, we we took care of you at night. And everybody knew that. So that's why they slept like this. And most of the time I sleep like that, and I was keeping my eyes on everything just in case they made a mistake and was coming after me.

unknown 37:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Beaten up on the wrong guy.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Beating up on the wrong guy, yeah. I think I think that people don't really believe that that stuff happened, but it that was part of boot camp. That was part of that was part of their that was a part of an educating people to work as a team.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

You had to work as a team. And and um, you know, if you didn't work as a team, you weren't you weren't passing, you weren't passing at all. When I when I went to the rifle range, um, I had never fired a rifle before. I'd always use my hands to kick somebody's butt if I needed it, you know. And if if it came to it, I thought, well, maybe I'll get some brass knuckles, you know, knock somebody out or something like that. So when they gave me that M16, uh, they told us how to use it and everything. I don't know. And I was using, bam, it would hit me in my face, bam! I had a black eye, my face was swollen up and everything. I never hit the target. I I couldn't, you know, I just couldn't do it. You know, I looked through the sights and I knew that gun was the rifle was gonna come back and kick me in the face, and I I, you know, it just didn't work out.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Well, hold on a second. So so what year were you in basic training in boot camp? I think it was 74. 74, anyway. 74 to 76. So they had two year enlistments at that time. So it's 2026. So that was 52 years ago, and you just corrected yourself on a gun or a rifle. Absolutely. I mean, talk about things that stick in your head.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

That sticks in my head.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was a long time ago, but you immediately corrected yourself.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah, because uh when I came in there, I mean, they made they made sure you knew it was a rifle. And if anyone ever forgot that it was a rifle, you were doing bends and thrusts. And not only were you doing bends and thrusts, everybody was doing bends and thrusts. And when I say that, I say that to say this. You weren't doing five or ten. You'd do them until they said stop. Right. So we learned that we learned the language, we learned to stay out of trouble, and we learned to do everything they said do. I mean, it wasn't an option. I mean, that's what you had to do. My drill instructor came over uh when I was at the range, and uh the first time, you know, I didn't qualify, I finished unk on the rifle range because I just wasn't doing it right. He worked with me and and uh then I was able to uh you know get a sharpshooter badge and and he made me understand. He said, Cal, he said, uh uh, well, he didn't say cal, of course, they just call you whatever they call you. Um, Private, you you better learn how to use it. This is your girlfriend, this is your wife. This is gonna save you right here. You know, when you're shooting at the enemy, you don't get a shot uh a second chance. You have to make sure that first shot is your best shot, because you don't get a second chance. And the more he drilled that into me, the more it became evident to me that I have to know how to break this rifle down, clean it, do the things that need to be done, and I need to shoot very accurately. And um, you know, after that, I mean, I was cool and good to go. But a number of folks, you know, um, you know, felt like, oh, I uh I've shot rifles, I've shot guns before, but they didn't finish well on the rifle range at all. So, you know, I learned to shoot uh very efficiently, very effectively, and and honor and respect that weapon in a in a way that was, you know, important because I knew my life depending on it. Um I will share this uh with you as well. Um when I got out of boot camp, I was at North Carolina uh for a while, Camp Lejeune. It wasn't I wasn't there very long. I was in logistics, I was in supply. I was like, okay, it's it's nice to be part of it and that type thing, but I wasn't there long before they shipped me out to Okinawa, Japan. Oh. And in Okinawa, um, you know, I worked in a motor pool, and you know, I mean, to me it was like a boys camp. I mean, I had a driver come over in the morning,

Okinawa Duty And A Close Call

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Thomas Dow, he picked me up. He'd pick me up in the Jeep, take me over to the motor pool. I'd order supplies and logistics for him, that type thing. I had my my nice office there. Um, you know, and then uh, you know, in the afternoon he he'd come back and you know, drive me into town for lunch or whatever. I'd go back to work and then he'd pick me up, take me back to the barracks, that type thing. And it was like, it was like a day job. Yeah. Life was good. Life was good. It was cool. I always had, we wore a green, um, uh a green uniform at that time.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Black boots and everything, and it was always highly shine and ready to go. Um, I had a mama son who uh ironed my clothes for me um and shined my and shined my shoes. Uh she um she ironed my uh my t-shirt, she ironed my skibbies. Um I was always prepared for inspection, and that's how I moved up in rank. And uh moved up to um, and you know, when I started, I was private. But in two years I had reached sergeant. So every promotion I received was meritorious. So I I mean I took the test, um, I had time to focus on, you know, what was important, think about, you know, sending money back home to my family so that uh, you know, they had some money, that type thing. But one day, um they woke us up in the middle of the night and uh they they told us over an intercom system, get over to the uh, you know, the um Army and uh you know get our weapons. I said, wait a minute. I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a corporal or sergeant in the Marine Corps. I don't have to do this. I mean, I you know, I got a nice job and stuff, huh? I'm not going to the army. I know something. Something was happening and that's that's serious business.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Well, I found out the Cambodians had seized the American ship the Miragues. And they wanted us to go to the Army to get our weapons because we were the platoon that was uh scheduled to go out there and rescue the boat. Um I had heard through some chatter that it was a reconnaissance unit that was uh on their way out there, and if they didn't um rescue the boat, we were the next to go out there and get it. And so I thought about it and I said, you know what? Oh I I that's not what I signed up for. I didn't, you know, going, you know, to get this ship in a in a turn of night. I don't know how many of these guys can swim. I don't know where I'm going. I don't know how I'm getting back. And, you know, I knew, you know, if I'm if I'm gonna be loaded up in a ship like a sardine and then running out into the water or doing whatever I had to do, you know, I said, Well, I don't really know what I'm doing here. Uh so I prayed on it and I said, Well, Lord, if you get me out of this, I said, I'll go home and I'll give everything I can to make my community better. But, you know, this is not something I really want to do. But if this is something you want me to do, I'll do the best I can to, you know, bring that ship back home. So we got our um we got our weapons and helmets and canteens and everything. They lined us up out there at the Army and then started marching over toward the ship that we were supposed to get on. And I said to myself, Lord, if you're not awake, I'm really asking you you please to get me out of this because uh this is not what I really signed up for. And lo and behold, before we got to the ship, uh they let us know over the intercom system that uh uh the reconnaissance unit had rescued the ship and we we were allowed to go back to uh the army, turn in our weapons, and uh, you know, go back to the barracks. And I said to myself, wow, uh, you know, I really don't have any say-so in terms of what I'm doing here. And these stripes don't mean a great deal of anything other than I'm getting more money than I had when I started. I said, but I gotta learn a skill and I gotta learn a number of skills so that when I do go back into the civilian world, uh, you know, I can do something productive. So, you know, when it was time for me to go, you know, they wanted me to uh reenlist. They had also, they were pretty confident I was gonna go to um, you know, officer training school. And uh they had talked to me about it a few times, and uh, one of the lieutenants there as well as the captain had talked to me about, you know, going to officer training school, and I thought about it and I said, Wow, six years of this? I don't know if I can make that. You know, and it's like six years of doing this? I said, I think I'm ready to go back home. He said, Yeah, but you're all of your schooling will be paid for, you your degree and you get this and that, and I said, Well, if I go back home and go to work, I can probably buy all of that stuff. But, you know, I think I'll go back home. So, of course, in the end, they they offered me a nice bonus to stay and do all of that stuff, but I was ready to go back home. I enjoyed the opportunity uh of the Japanese culture, and I enjoyed the opportunity of being with a team of folks, you know, representing this country. But, you know, my trip back home wasn't a wasn't a good trip. And uh they they prepared us well because they said, hey, when you go back home, don't wear your uniform, don't go through the airport with a uniform, uh, you know, don't wear anything of military uh attire because people, you know, looked at us as if we lost the war in Vietnam. They didn't understand that. And I walked through the airport, you know, in my civilian clothes, and and you know, people recognized me. I mean, they knew I was in the military. I was clean shaven, I was in the military, I wasn't in any military uh attire or anything like that, but you know, I wasn't slouched over or anything, I was straight up, you know, and just marching and doing my thing, and they knew, they knew. So, you know, uh, you know, I came back home, saw soldiers that were uh that were spit on, they were cussed at, and you know, um different things were thrown at us in the airport, that type thing. Um, but I knew, I said, you know what, I I didn't start this war, I I didn't end it. I don't feel like we won it. I just feel like we did what we had to do. And that's all I could say. You know, and I did not have to go to Vietnam, but uh the war in Vietnam was coming down to to an end, but you know, I was you know, I could have been in that same scenario as everybody else. And had I been in that scenario, I would have had to do the best I could to stay alive and and you know keep my comrades alive because you know the way it it turned out for me and the way I look back on it now, I've always worked in a team concept. Those have been my best assets, working in a team concept. So going into the Marines was really an extension of high school and middle school and everything else. I was always on a team. I was not always the superstar on the team, but I was always one of the catalysts on the team. And in the Marine Corps, it turned out to be the same way. Right. And uh that's why I learned to get, you know, for you know, our PTs or whatever. I mean, I learned to do 25, 30, how many uh push-ups I had to do. And as far as you know, running the distances and stuff like that, I got down to my 17 minutes, um, you know, running a three-mile race, that type thing, and I learned to swim exceptionally well. And, you know, I had time to do that in Japan because I was on a little island, and it was like, what else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Got to keep yourself busy when you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's only so much you can buy, only so much you can do, that type thing. So um I studied a lot, and that's how I got the promotions. Shine my boots a lot. Um, my clothes were pressed, and um I paid uh Mama San, you know, uh good money to make sure they were washed and cleaned and ironed.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

And uh I I learned to shine shoes um pretty well. So the guys in my platoon that uh uh weren't really adept at it, uh I do it for them and make sure that they they paid me accordingly. So yeah, we would always uh, you know, they'd always give me money. Yeah, Jones, you know how to do this. Can you can you iron my clothes, man? Can you iron this? Can you can you shine my shoe? Can you, you know, make sure my chevrons are, you know, in place and stuff like that. Sure I can. But you gotta pay me. Right. Exactly. And they did. So, you know, I was I was very fortunate. And uh when they'd go out for office hours in the evening, uh, a number of times they they weren't disciplined enough with their money. And uh when it was time for them to go home, they didn't have the money to send their stereols and a lot of things like that home. I'd I'd always buy them a little on a dollar, that type thing. Send them home to my family and, you know, had some suits made, customized just for me. You know my name in it and everything. I never had anything like that. I thoroughly enjoyed it. So um it was like, yeah, this is uh quite an experience, but uh more importantly, uh the greatest thing I learned from that is it's just such an honor to uh represent this country. Um it gave me a chance to see other countries and how they lived and how they worked, that type of thing. It just wasn't home, yeah. And it's like, wow. I I just I said I am glad to go back home. I can't wait to get back home. Because it was like, you know, they were third world countries and it it wasn't it just wasn't American. It wasn't what I was used to. And as much as I learned from my social studies books and stuff like that, and I knew a lot from social studies, but I had never lived in in another culture, and I had never seen so many different cultures, you know, come together and the things that they would do. It was like America's got problems, but um you know, America's my home.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah, you sometimes you just don't appreciate it until you've been away from it for a little while and you realize that yeah, for all the problems, it's still a pretty darn good place to be.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

So you uh you came back, did you uh uh move back home then? Or was so what happened when you got back home?

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Oh, when I came back home, um when I came back home I had a family and uh um I had a daughter and I'd send money back home to you know take care of her, that type thing. Um, you know, and then I started looking for uh employment. Now mind you, when uh before I went in the Marines, it was tough getting a job because I didn't have any experience. Yeah. But when I came back, man, um a number of companies contacted me wanting to

Coming Home And Starting A Career

SPEAKER_01 53:49

know if I would, you know, work with them and you know, do those kinds of things, that type thing. And I said, nah, uh, you know, I'm going to school, you know, you know, and you know, military's paying me as long as I go to school to get a good grade, that type thing. So I did that. And the more I thought about it, I said, you know what? The career I want to go into, uh, I don't want to know a lot about it, but I want to learn a lot about it. And I want to go in and and see if there's an opportunity uh to change the culture. And change the culture, I was thinking, well, you know, see if I can get more um, you know, veterans in and more people of color in, you know, to do a lot of the work that needs to be done. Guys contacted me here at the Borderwater Night and asked me to uh come there and go to work. He was a Marine. Yeah um and his son is our general manager now. Okay. Yeah, he was a Marine. I was out running um at home one day and he came running up there next to me. He said, Hey, he said, um man, he said, uh, you know, are you just getting out of the military? I said, Marine Corps. He said, I'm a Marine. We hit it off really nice. He said, I need you to come to the Board of Water Night. I said, I don't know anything about energy or anything like that. He said, but you're a lifelong learner, you'll learn this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

And I said, Well, I'll try it for a couple of weeks, but I'm not gonna give you more than that. He says, Okay, you come on over and you know, we'll see what, we'll see how it works out. And when I got here, um I was shocked. I mean, most uh a number of the people who were people of color were pushing brooms, um, and that's where they worked. And everybody had beautiful secretaries. And I said, and uh, you know, I was starting out at the bottom, um, and they asked me, well, can you clean the toilet? Can you do this? I said, I've been trained by your United States government to clean toilets inside out. You can't show me anything new, but I can do it for you as long as you understand, you know, I'm here to move up in the organization. And in six months, I was they gave me uh an opportunity to uh work in the office. Because I could type, I could type with the best of them, I could file, I could track stuff, I could organize stuff, uh, I could walk and chew gum. And I didn't smoke, so I was still staying fit and doing the things I did. And uh so I was in management uh within six months, and then within that year I was promoted to supervisor. You know, I moved up quickly because I took a liking to what was going on, and I I didn't know everything, but I was learning very quickly. And I was learning how can I make this situation better than it is today. And um, since I've been here um, you know, the first 18 years of my career, um, we did construction services, and uh at that time you could take your tools home and you know, um do what you needed to do and bring them back the the following weekend. Well, I knew a lot of friends, so I said, Oh man, well, I can take tools home and I can bring them back Monday. And uh Saturday, we can pour a basement floor, and then Sunday, I can clean up the tools, and then Monday I can bring them back in. And I did that for a few months, and then other folks wanted to know, well, how are you how are you making all this money? Well, I got friends and they got things that need to be done, be it deck patios, concrete, you know, flowing pores and that type thing. Can we work with you on this? Of course you can. So I developed a system very quickly. I had four or five guys working with me. I would set up uh, you know, with the customer uh what needed to be done, they would do the work, I'd pay them, and then I'd get the cut. Right. And we did it all over the region, and then after a while, they the Board of Water Knight cut that out, probably making more money than I was being paid.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Right, right. Yeah, you can't take tools home anymore. No, you can't take tools home anymore. I you know, I remember I I do remember that when guys would take uh uh pole setters home instead of their pole bars. Yeah, we did all of that. Bring a trencher home and put in some electric. We did all of that, yes, sir. We did all of that. Not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Not anymore. But I've been blessed because you know, when I came here, we were still using typewriters. I was typing 60, 70 words a minute, it didn't bother me. But I also had time to think about how can we make this better? And um, you know, I had a uh secretary who, you know, she was good at shorthand, she wasn't good at um, you know, uh a lot of the other aspects. So um I went to school and uh took Fortran, I took Cobalt to try and understand how do computers work because my goal was to develop what was called, what's called today, online time. So I brought it. Uh I I went, you know, I went there, took the classes, failed miserably. I didn't understand any of that. I knew I was in over my head, but I took it anyway. But the saving grace was I knew enough to get an expert to be my secretary who could do it and make it happen. And I hired this guy, um uh Eric Stancliffe. I hired him. Uh I changed his title from secretary to office supervisor. And he was 6'8, 250. I got complaints from the guys because they said, Man, we're used to coming in here seeing a pretty secretary. We can't look at that guy. He was 6'8, 260, and uh uh uh good Christian guy. And you know, he said, Mr. Jones, you don't have to use any uh ecology on me. Just tell me what you want me to do. I said, I want you to do online time. And he he had a library background, their Christian background, and he made it happen. You know, and we worked together really well, and then when that was done, uh he went back home to Utah, I think it was. And um, you know, I was blessed to develop that online time. They wouldn't let us use it for about four or five years because we still hadn't uh developed a lot of special codes that need to be put in it, that type thing. Right. But in the end, it's very similar to what we use today. And I also uh developed uh an opportunity for people to move up in the organization because when I came here, people didn't have the skills to move up. So a lot of the uh folks, even though they wanted to move up, they couldn't uh because they didn't have the skills. And I developed what was called an assessment uh sheet where they could learn those skills and the journeyman would actually have to sign off on it so that, you know, they were proficient in those fields and it allowed people to move up into those ranks. A number of people didn't like that, and um, you know, I was changing the old uh the organization, the culture of the organization, but our HR department got behind me and they backed me 100% because I knew all I was asking for was fairness. And we were able to establish that. People were able to move up. I hired um females into the organization in the construction industry, and that was that was not that was they didn't like that at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

That's not a that's not a part, that was not a popular thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

It was not a popular thing. No. And I found out it wasn't a popular thing very quickly because I had uh I had per bought and purchased a Corvette. Apparently somebody uh didn't like it well enough where they went out and scratched it all up. And uh, you know, I didn't I didn't uh you know get mad about it or anything like that. You know, I just said, hey, you know, this is not gonna change the way I do things. And I was fortunate that my insurance company said, Don't worry about it. We got your back. What color do you want it? And they made it happen. I hired the first female painter at the Borderwater Knight. Um I could have gone with an apprentice, but I said, nope, I want a journey, um, journey person um painter, and I want a female. All the guys were all the guys were painters, and they were all related to each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

Well, it's an interesting thing about the the utility industry, right, is oh for a long time, you know, there are certain like there are certain names that you know they that's what they've done their whole lives, and they yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Yeah, and I recognize that, and I recognize uh, you know, the culture I was in, and I recognized you know it was up to me to you know make some inroads, some culture changes, because I knew eventually that's the way it had to be. And I knew as long as we gained some camaraderie together, you know, in the long run, we'd be a lot better off. And you know, a number of people uh, you know, I said, wow, you know, young black guy, and you know, he's a smart guy. He probably knows enough to blow us all up. So they didn't give me a lot of problem in terms of, hey, I want you guys to do this or I want you to do that. They just did what they had to do. And uh, you know, that's how I managed to continue my work and my career here at the Board of Water and Life. After a while, it's like a family unit. I mean, everybody knows each other, they know, you know, that, hey, we're all here to make the money we can, go back to our respective homes, and that's the way it is. It's not it not real tough or you know, anything like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

So you were in construction services then for quite for a while?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

My first 18, my first 20 years, if you will. And then they asked me what else I wanted to do. And I said, well, I like uh marketing, I like organizational assessment and training because that's what I did when I was in construction. Um and I said, you know, I I you know, as we continue to grow together as people, I think we need a diversity, inclusion, and equity um initiative here at the Board of Water Night. And so they put me um, you know, out there to do those kinds of things, and then they asked me, well, what else is it you wanted to do? And I said,

Changing Culture Through Fair Opportunity

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

you know what's amazing to me. We're a billion-dollar company, and we don't have someone advocating for us in Washington at the state level, at the local level. I said, I really think you guys need to think about getting a lobbyist in here to protect the interest of what so many people are doing here. I thought they would get a lobby team to come in here.

unknown 1:04:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

They said, Cal, we love the idea. You're it. I said, well, wait a minute. I I'm not a lobbyist. I'm not a lobbyist. They said, well, you'll learn. Right. Yeah. So uh I said, well, you know, I'll just keep my old job. And they said, Cal we got somebody else for your old job. This is your job. So um, you know, I I I thought about it and I I read about it and I thought some things through, and I said, Well, okay, yeah, I guess I can do this. We have a lobby team that can do things out of Washington, state level. I need a lobby team that can actually follow things at the state level because I don't want to do parties every night, that type thing, because I know I'll get into trouble. Uh I said, but I'll manage things at the local level, you know, and lobby, you know, for a team here at the local level. So um I hired a lobby team to come in and represent us at the state. You know, I give them uh some direction in terms of what we need in terms of having an advocate uh for the Board of Water and Light. Um I changed lobby teams all the time. And that was unheard of when I did it. But I changed them because I wanted a different perspective as we went along. And now as we were, as I could see, you know, we were growing in a number of different ways. So I was able to do that. I really liked working at the local level because you know, I was on a number of boards and a number of those people who were running for public office. Um I would establish a good working relationship long before they'd get into, you know, being a representative or commissioner or A senator or governor or anything like that. And that's how I established close working relationships with them. And I had no problem when I'd called them because they knew who I was. I knew who they were. I knew where they went to church. I knew when their anniversary was. I knew who their dentist was, their pastor, their rabbi, their kids' birthdays. I knew all that stuff. So, you know, we we formed a close working relationship no matter what. We didn't get, we as an organization, we didn't always get what we wanted, but we always had a seat at the table because I always had a friend on the other side of the aisle. And be it Republican or Democrat or independent, I made friends with everybody because whoever is in leadership, I was representing this organization. And I just wanted a seat at the table.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Well, it sounds like the truth is that you develop these actual relationships, not transactional relationships. You know what I mean? Like you knew these people and cared about them long before you would ever thought you would ever need anything from them. And it feels like today, a lot of times, people become your friends because they want something from you. But that's doesn't sound like that's anywhere near how you conduct business.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

No, and that's why, you know, people that are in, even now, people who are in office now, I have great working relationships. Um one who's a senator was in charge of the uh appropriations committee. I played football with her dad at Eastern. I knew her when she was just a tiny whippersnapper.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

I was the one that gave her dad a repres uh reference letter when he went to GM. And I was there when he retired and went to Texas. So we have a good working relationship. The gov, I I knew her, you know, when she was just getting into the business or whatever. Um uh but our lobby team pretty much works with people who are in the leadership of of everything. But you know, they know who I am. And we don't always get what we want, but we get a seat at the table. We get at least to hear us, and at least we get a chance to voice how what we do is so different than that of what consumers does and or D DTE.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

Right. Yeah. So and that's what you're continuing to do today, then that's your Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

This will be this will be my 50th year uh in the I was gonna ask Calvin, I just didn't know how. Thank you. This is uh this will be my 50th year uh-huh uh in the energy uh uh industry. Um and it's been just uh you know, it's just been uh a world of things changing all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

And I've been so fortunate and blessed to be um at the forefront of so many things that I never thought I'd be interested in. I never thought they would be as important as they are today. Um we went through the ice storm together um here at the Borderwater Night. We didn't know what we didn't know when we went through that ice storm, but I reported to work every single day. Yeah. I was the one pushing paper and pencil because I mean to me, I've always had a backup plan, you know, and you know, I felt for the people that I was trying to represent, and we try to find ways to get some things done, that type thing. And eventually we went on to developing a uh system that, you know, we stay on top of storms now. I mean, anytime they're we know when they're coming in, we have uh we have people who come together and we talk about who's on first, who's on second, third, fourth. Uh, you know, we have a plan. We didn't have a plan then because we didn't know what we didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

So I've seen a lot of change and been part of a lot of that change that uh we're involved with today. And, you know, I I've been very fortunate every step of the way because um every every three years I take a look at, you know, am I learning something new? Yeah, I'm learning something new. Am I having fun doing what I'm doing? Yeah, I'm having fun doing what I'm doing. Am I working with people who um, you know, who have my back and I have their back? Yeah, I do. So it's like working with a family, really. And it's like uh even though we've had transitions here and there, you know, I've been part of, you know, uh seeing good people leave, but I've been part of hiring great people who replace them and then developing those relationships again and making sure it goes the way it needs to go. That's why I spend so much time in the in the people industry because that's where I'm most comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

Well, I can see that. I mean, I haven't known you in maybe a month, but uh we've been in some pretty good meetings together. So I I can I can completely uh see that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

And that's why that's another reason I use Martin Luther King's uh statement all the time, you know, teamwork makes the dream work. Yeah. And you know, inside teamwork makes the dream work, the T stands for Together, the E stands for everyone, the A stands for achievement, and the M stands for more. Everyone achieves more.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Yeah. Yeah. So I have a couple couple of questions I want to go go back on. One is you mentioned the ice storm, but do you recall the the the storm in 1998? Oh yeah. The the 100 mile-an hour straight straight line winds. Oh yeah. I was an electric lines dispatcher. Oh man. Uh working for you were really on the front line. Oh, I I I came in on Saturday and I didn't go home until the following Sunday. We slept right there. So my God. So you remember that? Oh yeah. And for years after that, it always felt like every storm was the first time we'd ever done it because nobody really had a plan. Uh,

Lobbying Built On Real Relationships

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

but that's completely changed. Absolutely. The the other question I wanted to ask you is um, and this goes back, so I kind of see a pattern, and so I want to ask this question. I'm trying to figure out how to frame it correctly. But so when you were when you were in school and you were looking at history, you realized that there weren't a lot of people in history books that looked like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

So you went and found people who looked like you to figure out what history really looked like.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

Uh, and then um your family, when you're joining the Marine Corps, says to you, it's gonna be a bunch of big white guys there. Yep. No one's gonna look at you, but you got there and you realized that there were some folks who looked like you. Yes. Right? And then you came here and uh the people looked like you were cleaning toilets and sweeping floors. Yeah. And um, and so, but you changed that. You changed the culture, uh, you brought the right people in, um, and you're seeing more uh more people look like you, more representation, I guess the best word is to use. Yes. So talk to me about the power in our youth today, seeing people that look like them doing what you do, seeing people that look like them uh representing them in government. What's the power in that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:14

Well, um first of all, I I want to say this. Um, you know, I I was inspired to make that move because of the draft. I was inspired to come to that uh resolution because of the draft. Our young people are really missing out on uh experiencing other countries and finding out the culture of other countries and how those how those people feel about Americans in their country, that type of thing. I had a different flavor and understanding for America once I went abroad.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

And there was just no going back or changing that. This is the greatest country in the world, in spite of the problems and difficulties we're going through then and even now. I wouldn't want to be any other place. Um you know, without that experience, though, I think young people are tremendously missing the greatest opportunity to understand the greatness of this country. It's been given to them. They haven't had to earn anything. It's been given to them. They haven't had to go through anything. It's been given to them. Hired to earn every single uh dime and nickel I ever got. And based on that, I got a chance to learn life lessons in terms of you gotta get along with folks, man. I, you know, yeah, we were in there, and if we had to go to war, then we had to go to war. But if I had my druthers, I'd spend an enormous time in terms of making sure that we find a way to settle things peacefully. Because war is just not the answer. It's just not the answer. And I think young people coming up today, they're missing a significant opportunity to um uh to serve this country. I wish the Peace Corps would come by, and I wish, you know, people would have to go through it because I think they're missing a big understanding of what this country is about. I'm not interested in burning the flag, I'm not interested in uh uh doing anything like that because I know the bloodshed that uh has been put into that flag, and I know what it means, and it means a great deal to me. And you know, I had to earn that right to feel this way. I think uh young people are certainly missing out on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:34

So I've asked you a ton of questions. We've been here for about an hour and a half, a little bit. It doesn't seem like more or less. I know. Time flies. It does. Oh, I also want to share with you something else in uh in high school.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:48

Um when I was in high school, uh there weren't a lot, uh we had Black History Month, and uh uh at Eastern High School, we didn't have uh posters of you know people of color on the bulletin boards and stuff like that. Well, I was into the books and I said, you know, we've got to change that. And this country was going through a lot of turmoil, including riots and everything else. Uh we were in the cafeteria one day and I talked with a number of

Youth, Service, And The Eastern Sit In

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

students, uh, white and black, in terms of this has got to change. And we got to do something to change it. We gotta do something together to change it. We went to the principal's office, they wouldn't talk to us about it. They said, go back to class. Uh we went there a number of times, and they kept telling us, just go back to class, you're not, you know, we're not paying you any attention. So we staged a sin-in at Eastern High School. And uh it was black students, white students, Mexican American students, and uh they called, they told us to go back to class, we didn't. I was scared as all get out because Eastern was known for wrestling, and we had wrestling champs all over us. They could take us if they wanted to, you know. But they called the police. The police came in. Uh, they brought a black and white bus in case they had to bust us all out of there or to wherever. And then they asked us for a spokesperson for the group. I was one of the spokespersons for the group. They called my mother up there. We didn't have a lot of money. And she said, Boy, you better know what you're doing, because I ain't got no money. All I got is some money for the rent. And if you go to jail, I ain't got no money. I said, Mom, you know, in my heart, I said, you know what? I'm not gonna go to jail for something that isn't worth it, and this is worth it. So I went to the principal's office, um, and I brought some other folks in there with me as well, and I made sure I had white students, black students, and Hispanic students, and we negotiated an opportunity uh where we could have, you know, uh Black History Month celebrated. Uh also out of that, we got uh an assembly, and um we had Daishikis that we were wearing during the course of the assembly. Um I brought uh he was the quarterback at that time, Jimmy Ray of Michigan State University, brought him in as a speaker, Gene Washington uh brought him in as a speaker talking about their experience of coming to MSU from you know wherever they came from as well. And um after that, I mean, you know, I I talked about the fact that, you know, only the honor students got a chance to be on the radio in the morning. And they made it available, they made it available where I could do the announcements in the morning and announcements in the evening, you know, and and uh, you know, they made a number of concessions. But had I not made, you know, that decision to draw a line in the sand and change the culture of where I was at then, it would not have changed. And like my mother said, you know, I ain't got no money for you. And she was right, she didn't have any money. I knew it. I was scared as all get out, but you know, in my heart I said, you know, this is the right thing to do. Especially when they brought those big buses up there and those policemen were like, they weren't they weren't the nicest in the world. And I didn't know what I knew I was working in fear, but I said to myself, if this is the way it is, I'm just gonna have to deal with it and go forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

Settled it peacefully, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:33

I did, I did, and and I should say we did, because um, you know, I didn't know I'd reach so many people talking about, you know, making a change at Eastern uh high school because it was like I wasn't trying to be anything special. I just tried to, you know, give us an opportunity to, you know, recognize people, black and white, you know, in terms of what's going on, that type thing. And uh once I really talked uh talked to them about it that type, there were so many more that were interested in it. They were just afraid to, you know, face the consequences of what was going to be happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

Yeah. Well, it's one of those things, right? One person raises their hand and there's 20 other people that are thinking that. They just aren't gonna say it or ask it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

And I guess, you know, I you know, there again, that probably had a lot to do with me saying, hey, you know, I'll take a look at these different military branches, and you know, if I gotta do something, uh if I have to die for this country, I want to die with the biggest, baddest dudes I can find. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

And do it on my terms, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

And when I went in, we didn't have women in our platoon or whatever. They had their own area where they trained.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

We had our own area where we trained and did everything that needed to be done. I'm so glad that was the case because too many ways for Calvin to get in trouble. Too many ways for being trouble. No. But I was so proud of wearing that uniform every chance I get. And uh, you know, it's carried on with me today. We have a veterans uh uh program here uh and uh you know, I'm one of the executive directors uh that's over it, and I've always prided myself on looking out for the veterans that we have here, having a veterans club where we can kind of get to do some things together, have some fun, share stories about you know the experience, that type thing. Um and I've also extended it to uh um you know, Rosie the Riveter, um actually had them come in and talk about their experience in supporting our men and women during the course of war and stuff like that. So it's grown significantly, and people have a greater deal of respect for veterans and people in in uniform now than than they had before. So, you know, it's a lot, but I enjoy doing it. I'm shocked they pay me what they do, but I'll take it. That's right. That's right. Some days, some days you are like, oh, they pay me to do this. Yeah, yeah. And I thoroughly enjoy doing it. And there's so much uh, you know, uh it's it's been a joyous ride here. It really has. There have been some ups, uh, some downs, but those are minimal compared to, you know, what we've been able to accomplish here and you know, make happen. So it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:24

Oh, very good. Thank you. So it's been a pleasure getting to know you. Um, I do have one final question.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:31

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:32

Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough one. No, well so I I I ask everyone the same question, and it it really is if you think about it, you know, the idea here is that people will listen to these stories and learn something from them years from now. So think about these terms. So, like a hundred years from now, someone is listening to your story. What message would you like to leave them with?

Legacy Advice And Final Message

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

Well, I'd probably want to leave them with a number of messages. Um, never judge a book by its cover. Never ever judge a book by its cover. Um get to know your history, get to know the history of this country that you represent. You were born here, you were raised here, wherever you go in life, you're an American citizen. And you have to hold your head high and be proud of the fact that you know we've done some great things in this country that other countries have never done. We are a world power uh in this country, but we do other things. We go to space, we go to a number of different things. We we don't have any challenges that exceed being an American. So I would challenge them to, you know, go beyond what they know today. Go beyond what they know tomorrow. Go well beyond uh, you know, anything that you think you know and and just you know do something great for this country. Do something that you'll absolutely be proud of for this country, and don't expect anything for it. Just do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:23

I think that's what I'd say. All right. Well, thank you for that. And thanks for taking time out today to talk with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

Oh man, it was it was beautiful. It was you know, I kind of got choked up, you know, with some of those answers, just thinking about them. And I was like, wow, man, that really touched me. Yeah. So it's it's it was very nice. It was very honorable to sit down with you and and and talk this thing through. And um, I don't think anybody's ever asked me to talk about my experience in terms of the military or whatever. So