What Do You Owe A Country That Raised You (Doug Thorne)

Doug Thorne didn’t set out chasing adventure, but service kept handing it to him anyway. From a childhood spent moving around Michigan with a dad in the state police, Doug learns early how to adapt, make friends fast, and keep his footing when life changes addresses. That same skill shows up again when college falls away, the draft number comes up, and he chooses the United States Air Force instead of letting the moment choose for him.

We talk through the nuts-and-bolts work that actually keeps the military running: Air Force logistics, transportation, and the unglamorous details of shipping household goods and moving people safely. Doug shares his time at KI Sawyer Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula, then the leap overseas as a customs inspector in the Far East. Okinawa becomes its own character in the story: narrow roads in a military truck, beach weather, cultural visits with local coworkers, and the kind of base-life problems nobody puts in a brochure.

The timeline keeps expanding into the Air National Guard, hazardous cargo, and multiple Middle East deployments, including work around Saudi bases during tense years. Doug describes what it’s like to close down operations, resist “friendly” bribes, and deal with desert nights where camel spiders are part of the environment. Back home, his public service continues with the Michigan State Police, where he helps manage the automated fingerprint identification system that supports real-world investigations, far from the instant results people expect from TV.

We wrap with retirement, family, and Doug’s simple takeaway about purpose and serving something bigger than yourself. Subscribe for more veteran oral histories, share this with someone who values service stories, and leave a review with the question you want us to ask next.

Transcript

Meeting Doug Thorne

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Today is Thursday, April 23rd, 2026. We're talking with Doug Thorne, who served in the United States Air Force. So good afternoon, Doug. Good afternoon. Thanks for coming out and visiting us today. It's my pleasure, yeah. All right. Well, we'll start out. Uh pretty simple. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I was born here in Lansing, Michigan. Uh-huh. 1950. Okay. Now, did you grow up in Lansing? No, my father was in the state police and we moved around the state. Okay. Graduated in West Branch.

Growing Up Moving Around Michigan

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Oh, so you did move around the state. Yeah. How old were you when you left Lansing then?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Okay, let's see. My I was probably six, seven. Okay. My father moved around to different cities in Michigan.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Almost like being an army brat.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yes, yes. Yeah. I can only imagine. So tell me a little bit about your dad. My father was in the um state police, and then uh after being in the mill uh Marines over in Palau and Okinawa. Then um he got me into the job with Michigan State Police after a graduation. Mm-hmm. That was oh after graduation I worked for the uh Federal Bureau of Investigation. My father knew some agents, so I went down there. But then I got um I dropped out of college and was drafted. My number was 100. So I joined the Air Force. Okay. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Well, I want to back up a little bit before we get there. You're fine. Um, so did you have brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I have three sisters. Okay. And where did you fit in? I'm my f I'm my father's oldest boy. I have a half-sister nine years older than I am. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

All right. So you weren't quite in the middle. No. You were pretty much. Yeah. Okay. All right. And um what was it like growing up, especially traveling around like that?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Well, I didn't like it as much, but met a lot of friends, but I couldn't grow up in one city all the time. But moving around, I met a lot of people. Got interest in things and Well what was school like for you? School? It was okay. I had to transfer a few times, but then that was hard and because they didn't have the same subjects I had previous schools, so it worked out. I graduated okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Did it make it tough for you to like have a favorite subject then because of of all the change? No. Not really. No. What did you what did you like about school?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I was a photographer's aide, so I went to all the um events and tail took pictures. I was on the newspaper staff and the yearbook staff.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Do you think that helped you get to know people, especially since you were had moved around a bit?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Helped me get out of my shell.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, you can't do that and be in your shell, right? No, no.

FBI Work, College Dropout, Draft

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Well, good. Very good. And um, so you uh you ended up in West Branch. Did you go like all your years in high school in West Branch, or was it just Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Okay. Yeah. Um, let's see, then I graduated. My father got me to work for the FBI in Washington, D.C. I lived in six different apartments in in 14 months and only on one lease. Oh my gosh. So I met a lot of people. I lived in Oxenhill, Maryland, and drove a drove a car to work downtown. Now, were you in college at this time? I started in college, yes. But then I um transferred college back to Lansing because I could my father got my job with the state police. I I was too short to follow him as being an enlisted. But I got there then um since I dropped out of college at that point, I joined the Air Force. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Now, um how long how long did you stay in college? Oh two years. Two years? Yeah. Okay. And um did you have an idea of what you wanted to get a degree in, or you just it just college just wasn't for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

College wasn't for me. Okay. I was taking classes, going pre-law and things like that, uh, law enforcement, but it didn't it didn't happen.

Basic Training And First Air Force Job

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Just wasn't for you. No. And your number was up, so you thought I'll join the Air Force. Yes, my father didn't want me to go into the Marines, so yeah. So you joined the Air Force. How long were you how long was it from the time you enlisted to the time you went to basic training?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Let's see. I would say about four months before I could get in. Okay. Went down to Lackland Air Base.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Which I think is the only place that the Air Force goes, right? Yes, for on Basic. Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit about getting to basic and and what that was like for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Well, I don't see. So I was a sole survivor, so my mother tried to get me out of the uh military, so she had the senator calling, and but uh I survived. Uh-huh. I went through I was a road guard out there.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah. Yeah. Did did uh did your mom making all these calls make it difficult for you in basic training at all?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

A little bit because I had the TI going nose to nose with me, and yeah, I had to go to see the lieutenant.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah. Yeah, that's rough. Yeah. That's rough. And so you uh went through basic training.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

What um what was your job skill in the logistics, transportation, and then I got assigned to um my dream sheet, which was um Michigan and Japan and back to Michigan.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Now, did you get any of those assignments? Yes, I did. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

I was stationed up at KI Soy Air Base, Gwyn, Michigan, up there by Marquette.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, that's not there anymore, is it?

unknown 6:27

No.

KI Sawyer Logistics And Overseas Customs

SPEAKER_00 6:28

KI Soy. No, I visited it and it's all gone downhill. Housing is still there, but Nobody's living in it, right? There's a few houses, yeah. Is there? Yes. Wow, okay. All right. Just like um Woodsmith Air Bases has that also.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

unknown 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

So well tell me about your time in the in the Air Force then. So let's see.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Oh, you so your first assignment was KI Sawyer then?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

KI Sawyer. I worked um household goods. I shipped um um military to the their housing. I arranged the for moving vans and uh and for the lower ranks, the um non unc unaccompanied baggage, you know, I shipped their places to where they would be assigned. Okay. Then um we were the there was five of us from Sawyer that um were transferred to the Far East. We were the first customs inspectors to go overseas the that's the stories too. Was that pretty exciting? Yes, it one went to um Tokyo, I went to Okinawa, one went to um Korea and Guam. I think one went to the Philippines, but there was five of us. When I got there, I was customs inspectors, and there were some houses I went to. I spent three days watching Packers pack up a general's house. He was moving out. Uh-huh. And then I was sergeant of the quarter over there at the time. And they we didn't have bars in the dormitory, the windows, and we had they called them Steely Boys. They come in and steal your clothes or whatever. And I had I was passed out in my bed one time and uh they stole some of my fur of um clothing. Uh-huh. Never caught them? No, no, no, no. We had cleaning ladies over there too. They you put your shoes out and you clean, they c wash your clothes and shiny shoes for you.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

But yeah. Now in the Marine Corps, they call them Mamasans, I think. They come and take care of your shoes and your clothes and all that. Yeah, Mamma San. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah. I had my own room, so nice. Yep. Now, how long were you in Okinawa? 18 months. And when I was there, I had time to go to visit my friends who were shipped to the other cities. I went to Tokyo and went to I spent two weeks in the Philippines. I even had time to come home for my sister's graduation, but I was stationed over there for 18 months. Okay. And what did you like most about being there? Um, let's see. I love the weather and the beaches that were there, but Air Force, you know, I was growing up over there.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's service a great way to figure things out, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yep. Yep.

Okinawa Culture, Travel, And Mishaps

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yep. And so anything exciting happened while you were there? Anything you want to do?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Well, we had um carnivals, and they had me as um, I volunteered to paint that we had a mirror go round. That was my job. So but we it was fun getting to know the families there. Some of our co-workers, you know, they lived off base. We go to their houses and or drive around. We had local uh Okinawans working with in our office, and we go over to their their place for sake and meet their families. It was just cultural events.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah. Did you learn a lot about the culture while you were there?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yes, yes. Yeah. Okay. I want to go back sometime.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

But it's all changed now because I I'm being a customs inspector, I drove a military truck over on the small road at the time, back in then, '72, they had small roads, narrow roads. So driving the military truck over there.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Must have been an adventure. Yeah. Yeah. And so uh w when your time was up, then you did you come back to KI Sawyer then?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yes, for four months. Okay. I think then I um got I was dis um dis not honorably discharged.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Honorably discharged.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Honorably discharged. But then while I was out, I was, you know, at home, then wanted some more money in that. I joined the air guard. That was over at Selfridge Air Base. Yeah. And um there we we didn't I was there for two years, and I it was kind of far to drive, so I got uh I transferred over to Battle Creek Air Guard. Yeah. Back then, and when I got there, I found my an old colleague that I knew in Okinawa. He was um the manager there where I at Battle Creek. And there we um shipped hazardous cargo to different inbound and outbound of Battle Creek.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Okay, and you so you were still in logistics then?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yes, still logistics.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And and how long did you stay in Battle Creek?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

From let's see, I mean it was a ninety twillion, and I stayed there to oh five, twenty oh twelve twelve oh five. Okay. And then while I was there I was deployed. Um we played um Saudi Prince Salton Air Base in Saudi Arabia. I went over there to help close the base and ship things out. I was there for six months at that one time. Then that various times. There was another time I was there for maybe three weeks, but we shipped things out, we were moving things over to Qatar, Lud Air Base.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah. So tell me, what was it like there? That's gotta be different than Okinawa.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yes. Well, uh, there's right after Cobar Towers, when they were bombed. Yeah. We shipped the rock back home. Oh. I I forget where it was shipped to, but uh then I tried to send um ship one of those um four-wheel drives back to our base, but never made it back to never made it back to Battle Creek. And over there is when I first got a at night time, they have canom camel spiders, camel spiders. Right. Yeah, that's so I had to run away from them. Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah. But I kept up with uh with the younger guys. And did you meet a lot of people a lot of people while you were there? Yes, yes. Oh yeah.

unknown 12:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Um with the locals. They try to um bribe me and give them the computers that we had, but I I know they gave me they were offered me perfume from different countries and that. So I said, no, I can't take it, but but they left it because they must have stuck it in my backpack or something. But Oh, very nice. Yes. Yeah, I had a good time. Met a lot of people. Uh-huh. All the young people.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Now, when you sir when you were serving in the Air Guard, were you full-time in the Air Guard then? No, I was still I was uh on leave from the State Police.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Okay. And what were you doing for the State Police? I was a manager for uh ended up as manager for the fingerprint automated identification system. Okay. We maintained the database for the fingerprints.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Very important.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Very important. Now, would so when you I I just want to kind of pull the timeline together. So you uh went on active duty, you were a KI Sawyer, went to Okinawa, came back, and then went back to work for the state police.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah.

Air Guard Years And Middle East Deployments

SPEAKER_01 13:42

And then joined the Air Guard. Yes. Okay. All right. And did you start out in the fingerprint division of the state police?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

It used to be manual. Uh huh. We have the um search by eyesight, but now it's automated.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Right. Yeah. Right. You can throw a set of prints in there and wait a couple days sometimes and see if it comes back. Sometimes it's not like the CSI program. Right. Not that fast. Not instantaneous, right? Right. Did you enjoy your time at the at the uh state police then? Yes. Yes. All right. What kinds of things do you remember about that, your work there? Well, the state police? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Let's see. That's where I met my wife. Oh well, tell me about that. We've been married for 50 years this year. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that's where I met her. She used to work in the secretarial part of the state police and do all the typing. Now that's all computerized, but we've been together. We got two grown daughters. Uh-huh. One two grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

That's pretty nice. Congratulations. Uh thanks. So you uh did it take you a while to ask her out, or did you just ask her out? How did that work?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

I asked her to go on a trip with one with me one time, the Bahamas, and she didn't want to go. She wasn't that type of girl. So I took my sister. Okay. Yeah. So there's some other back in just thoughts of back in the air guard, we were um working with hazardous cargo. So we I was on deployed, or not really deployed, sent uh Tucson Air Base where our planes went. And I had to be uh there's paperwork that for shipping, and I had to go there and authorize that. So I flew on a lot of military planes, uh-huh. Different types. There was one annual training trip we did that's a story to we went to Hawaii for annual training.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

How'd you pull that off?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I don't raise my hand.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Right?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I learned how to drive the um larger forklifts that move the flight panels on the big trucks and that. Um I even drove see the that that's Hawaii. Mixing up my stories, but uh um Hawaii, I learned the forklift and and just other various things, and then it was a good time over there. Oh, I'll bet. I'll bet. But back to um Salton Air Base. Yeah. Oh no, this is when I was in LUD, I um wanted to drive the 18-wheeler truck, and this is out in the desert, you know. Oh, yeah. So I'm driving it out there. I drove it in the sand and got stuck. Oh no. And the um only person that well, I had a buddy there with me, but um, a colonel stopped by. He was just on his way with the compound where we work is one part of the um desert, and the other part where um we stayed or camp is another part. So we had I drove the I mostly worked the night shift there. Uh-huh. And so I I had my own crew. I was the NCYC, and I had my own bus, and I'm, you know, I picked everybody up, drove. I don't even remember how we got, because we had to have passwords to get in and out of the bases and uh compounds. I can't remember how I did it. They must have been written down someplace before I got the before I left the each area. Right. So that's another story that keeps uh popped in.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

So now how many times how many times did you deploy to the Middle East then?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Middle East, about uh four times. Okay. Some one time was two weeks, another one it was maybe one was six weeks, and I had the pictures there, but recognition, but it was good. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

I stayed long. Some of my buddies had to leave early or left early, and I volunteered to stay longer. I didn't tell my wife that. Of course not. No, I just said I they told me to stay. Right. That's why I didn't tell her I volunteered. That's that was something I never told her about that. Yeah. But always um we could make phone calls back when I was over there.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

But now when were you uh how uh when were your kids born, uh your your children?

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Well, let's see. My oldest daughter is 49. So she was born a year after we were married, and youngest daughter was born four years after that. So Okay. That's I was in the guard, one of the places. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Right. So how how about how often would you be gone then as part of your duties in the guard? In the guard is one week in every month. Right. And then two weeks in the year. Two weeks in the year. Although when I was in it felt more like it was it was the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

We would um for when I'm in the guard in Southreach, we would go up to Alpina Bay air base there. That was we did mostly annual training there, but then I wanted to go other places, so I heard Battle Creek could go, so that they sent me different um areas. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

I mean, might as well go places, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah. I love to fly. Uh-huh. And on the way to Hawaii that time, we flew on a KC-135. They had a um passenger pack, you know, regular seats, but I would go in the belly of the plane and watch them refuel. Oh. That was an experience too, flying with the Air Force. Oh, I bet it was. Yep. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

That yeah, that would be interesting. And so you stayed in the air in the air guard for how long, though?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

So it was altogether with all my years, it was about 23 military years. Okay. I get my I get my military pension. Mm-hmm. That helps. That's a nice thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

The military pension's nice. Yep. Um, for sure. And then what rank were you when you uh I was in E6, tech sergeant.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Okay. That's what my father um when he he was a tech sergeant when he got out of the Marines.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And he was over there in Okinawa at the time. Now, did you get to see any of the places that he saw when he was in Okinawa? I don't know. I don't think so. He d he never talked about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Never talked about being in in the war back then.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Right. Right. So when you uh retired in 05, tell me about what was it like to know that you were putting on a uniform for the last time.

State Police Fingerprints And Family Life

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I did that serve my country. You know, I had to I I wanted to do that. Um I was just interviewed, I was at the Red Cross, and David Andrews interviewed me and wanted to know the difference. I mean, the the two Air Force and the state police together for the years there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah. And um was it was it hard to retire or were you ready to be done?

SPEAKER_00 21:05

From the military I was. I was 60 years old when I retired. And it was time to for the younger ones to take in. I taught them everything I knew, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

It was time for them to do it. You know. And then when did you retire? Do you uh you retired from the state police then as well?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yes, at in 2010. Okay. So I had my military they kept my military time with my state time. Uh-huh. So they I didn't lose any state time or anything. Because I started with state police first, then military.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Oh, very nice. Yeah. And so what was that like to retire from? How'd you feel about that? From the from the state police.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Well. Being in the automated fingerprint, we I got they gave me a disc with all I mean with what they first used for fingerprints. So that's hanging on my wall at home. So I got my my they for the state police retirement, they have they give you the sleeves with your rank and how many years of service you're on. I got my father's sleeve and my sleeve on the wall.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Oh, really? Yep. That's something. Yeah. That is something. Now, how long did your dad uh was he?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I think they well, he retired at post commander. No, that that was in West Branch. Then he moved down to operations and Lansing, then he retired. He retired in he they have 25 years, and I think they're supposed to retire. Yeah. Yeah. So he had about that many years. Oh, well, good for him.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

And so uh after 2010, you're retired from the military, you retired from the state police. What what were you doing after that? Taking care of the family. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah. I can't think I don't think I did much. I retired. I didn't have to do anything. Right. Do you feel like you're busier being retired than you were? I take my grandson to school and back. Yeah. He's seventeen now. Uh huh. We got sent him off to school a college.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Where's he gonna go to college? Where's he going to college? Oh right now we'll go to LCC and get some of his basics done.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, it's a good idea. Yeah. Yep. And what's so what's next for you? Just gonna Me?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Well, this is our 50th year of um uh marriage. Uh huh. I'm taking my wife down the romantic Danube. Yeah, well, if the jet still goes. Yeah. We're flying from Detroit over to Munich. Then then from Munich over to Budapest. Uh-huh. Then sail sail down the Rhine River or the Danube River to Germany.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

That'll be fantastic. I know. How long will you be there? Week eight days. Okay. All right. And um, did she ever go on that trip to Bermuda with you that you had asked her on?

SPEAKER_00 23:52

No, I took my sister.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah, well, I don't, I kind of figured.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

I kind of figured. No, if she she says she wasn't that type of girl, but I st she stuck with me. She and she's I told her she's now she can't let me go now or can't get rid of me. Right. After 50 years, it may seem like 80, but yeah, some days it feels like that, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Absolutely. Well, we've talked about a lot of things during our interview. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I can't think I covered my father and everybody and my three sisters. Okay. I can't think of anything.

Retirement, Reflections, And Advice To Serve

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Well then I I really just have one more question to ask you, then. Uh-huh. Uh, and that is for someone who is listening to this story years from now, um, what message would you like to leave for people?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

You have to join the military. That's uh the the best thing to serve your country, and you feel like you've done something for the country. And let's see, some a lot of things you never forget. Camo spiders or even the habu snakes in Okinawa, and all the snow in the UP. Yeah. When we first uh up there, I was in December in Marquette. I had that midnight, I had to go out on the flight and clean the snow around the lights on the airfield. Uh-huh. That was another popped in my head. You've seen it all. Yes. Yeah. Well, excellent. Driving the big trucks and the small roads in Okinawa and trying to find their addresses off base.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Oh, you know, I did want to ask, uh did you ever get that truck out of the sand that you got, that 18-wheeler thing? Eventually it came out. Yeah.

unknown 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

I take it you didn't get in too much trouble for that.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

No, I don't think I did anything. But uh another back in Okinawa, I was told I was being watched. I hung around some guys in their dorm that were smoking weed, and or worse than that, they caught it, but they said OSI was after me. That's another that's another story. Or watching me, they weren't after me. They were just keeping an eye. So, okay, I'll be low-key.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Just want to see if you were doing anything wrong.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah. I've I've never indulged in that stuff. Right. Good for you. Yeah. So the OSA would have me.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Right. Yeah. Right. They seem to know everything. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, Doug, I really appreciate you coming out here. Uh I know you're busy uh taking the time out to talk with me and um and uh share your story with uh with everyone.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

So I hope every I hope I got it all up. So I gotta join the military. And even if, you know, nowadays nobody's volunteering in that. Yeah. Well, I had to. I didn't want to join the army.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

My number was up. Yeah. Yeah. You found the you found the right the right place for you, right? Yep. Yeah. Well, good. Well, thanks again. I appreciate it. You're welcome.