From A Michigan Farm To Vietnam Supply Lines (Robert Tvorik)

The Vietnam War wasn’t just fought with rifles. It was fought with fuel, paperwork, convoys, and the kind of responsibility that can follow you for years. We sit down with Robert “Bob” Tvorik, a United States Army officer who went from a tough, introverted upbringing to leading soldiers in a petroleum supply unit supporting major operations in Vietnam. His memories are vivid, practical, and unexpectedly personal.

Bob walks us through growing up in Cleveland, moving at 12 to a farm near Wademan, Michigan, and finding his footing in school after years of low confidence. That early struggle becomes part of the leadership story, especially once ROTC and college jobs push him toward a commission. When he arrives in Vietnam, he learns fast that military logistics can be a life-or-death system: hauling diesel and JP-4, flushing trailers, running convoys, and trying to follow regulations in a war zone.

Then everything turns on one incident a fuel disposal ignites, a 5,000-gallon trailer is destroyed, and Bob faces the terrifying possibility of being held financially responsible. From there we talk about what it feels like to come home to protests, how he answers the question “were you scared,” and the mentors who taught him a simple standard that still holds up: do your job the best you can. We also follow his post-service journey into staffing and banking, including the pressure and moral pain of trying not to fail the people you love.

If this conversation changes how you think about Vietnam veterans, military leadership, or what “support” really means, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Meet Bob And His Roots

0:01

Today is Monday, June 1st, 2026. We're talking with Robert Tvoric, who served in the United States Army. So good afternoon, Bob. Hello. It's okay to call you Bob, right? Okay, excellent. We'll start out. The very first question when and where were you born? Uh July 18, 1942, in Cleveland, Ohio. Okay. And did you grow up in Cleveland? Until I was 12 years old. We moved from there to Wayton in Michigan. And people will say, Wade, what? And what brought you to Michigan? A long story, but my wife, my mother, grew up in a disjointed family and uh lived in uh orphanages, foster home, and two of her brothers got in a little trouble. And the uh Ohio police would only chase them as far as the Michigan line. And so uh my uh Uncle Ralph and

Moving To A Michigan Farm

1:00

Uncle Joe uh moved up by Mount Pleasant, got a job on a farm up there uh raising potatoes, and one day uh Uncle uh Ralph called my parents and said, hey, the farm up here, uh the owner needs something to live on, and everything be provided, and so uh uh it's yours if you like it. And so we moved to Wayman, Michigan, northwest of Montpleas. Now, was your dad a farmer by trade already? No. No. Uh actually uh they lived in Palm, Ohio outside of Cleveland, but uh I was never on the farm itself. Okay, so this is a whole new adventure. Certainly was. Did you have brothers and sisters? I have three brothers, but none left. I'm the oldest living Tavoric in North America. Okay. Wow, that's quite a uh uh a a heavy load to carry there. Parents are gone, brothers are all gone, uh huh. Aunts and uncles, and I'm the oldest guy left. Now, were your brothers older than you or one older? Uh-huh. And uh uh everyone. Okay. And so they loaded up the car and they moved to Wademan. Now, I know where Wademan is because I used to be the Navy recruiter up in that area, and Wademan was one of my uh recruiting areas. But anyway, so you loaded up the car and you moved to Wademan. What was that like for you at 12 years old to kind of pack everything up and then head to this farm, which you had never been to before? Well, it was quite interesting, and the farm uh had about 10 cows and some pigs and chickens and so on, but it didn't provide much. Actually, the little history there, uh, the farm was owned by Miles Drollett in uh Wademan. You'll see a store, it says George Drawlet and Sons, and they were actually related to John S. Wademan. So original settlers to that area then. And we ended up uh Miles Drollett, willed that farm to uh my parents. My father was a person very caring for people and so on. Miles ended up having health problems, and my father would go down and take care of him,

Inheriting Land And Losing Dad

3:30

help him. My mother got quite disturbed about it, and she said, Vera, one of these days, uh Miles is gonna take care of us. And she said, You believe that shit? Uh you're gonna get nothing. That day of 200 acres uh wasn't the best farmland, uh, but the 200-acre farm was left by Miles to uh Frank and Vero Tavort. So they they inherited the farm. Yes. And uh so do you what kinds of things did you do on the farm? I'm I'm I'm assuming all the boys that got to work at the farm. We sure did work on that farm. Uh we uh helped uh all hay, we helped take care of the cows, we did everything on the farm. Didn't provide much of a living though. Right. Uh Beale City, just a few miles east of us, is all very rich Saginaw Valley farmland. Wademan and on the west is sand. And so uh my mother ended up getting a uh job at a general electric plant that was open uh uh south of us, 28 miles away. My father ended up working uh at the school uh in Waideman as a janitor, and uh things ended up improving. Uh unfortunately, my dad passed away. They were building a house, new house. He passed away just before the house was finished, never saw the house. Actually, the first occupancy was at the time of his funeral, my relatives from Cleveland came up and we stayed in that house for the first time. Wow. Uh my mother ended up with enough uh uh income and money that she uh took trips around the world, was able to buy a new car. She lived a far different life from what she grew up in. Yeah. And uh this whole time though, you and your brothers are going to school then, right? In Wademan? School, the Wademan Community School. Actually started out Sherman Township Rural Agricultural School. People today don't know of fact that buses then were red, white, and blue. And uh so uh that's where we went to school. What was school like for you during that time? Well, it was uh different. I grew up in Cleveland, went to a Catholic school, St. Wendel. Uh so we moved to uh Waiteman

School, Confidence, And Finding Psychology

6:20

and uh started out in the uh third grade, and uh uh it was different, but it was good. Did you make a lot of friends? Yes, and we'll get into that probably in a moment about how uh I was as a student. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Okay. It'll be in my story, but um I grew up very introverted and quiet, uh low self-confidence, and uh ended up a lot of my time was spent out in the hallway in a chair rather than in the class. You get attention when the teacher kicks you out of the room instead of get out in the hallway. And uh Bob got attention. As things went on, uh small class, but my friends uh that I was good with ended up they were kind of different. They were college-bound eventually. And in joining up with them, I made a change and ended up getting grades and d becoming a better student uh became part of my life. And so uh I moved on from there. Now, did you have any favorite subjects in school? Anything you really liked? Yes, and uh I'll tell you, it was a psychology class. Oh. And it relates a lot to my interest today. I uh ended up getting the best grade in that class. Even today. I have strong interest. I actually uh have a business degree, but I have a minor in psychology. I uh ended up uh subscribing to psychology today. I uh even today follow uh media, things that have to do with um relationships with people, and uh enjoy very much. So it really stuck with you all those years. Yeah. People to have a degree, a minor in psychology when you're a business student was different. Right. I I feel like that might help you in business though, to understand people, right? I did, and uh, you know, part of it, communications, relationship, type style, people. I really did like a class in abnormal psychology, uh, which today uh I'm again very much involved. The current Guthrie issue, for example, I'm following very, very closely. Uh a little off the subject, but a while back, listening to a program, and the uh presenter asked the question, you had to do over with. What area would you have gone into, you know, as far as uh career? And I answered that question today, it would be forensic psychology. I wouldn't want to be an undercover police agency, but try to understand what makes people do what they do, how do you evaluate, how do you figure out? Uh so I would have been the uh office job in forensic psychology. I think it would have been fascinating, right? Yes. So you uh let's go back a little bit though. So you uh you make it through school, you you graduated high school, I'm assuming, and then uh so what happens after high school? I as I said, follow my friends that were going on to college and applied to two schools that are known, Michigan State University, very high regard for Michigan State. My wife got her master's there, both of my kids got their uh bachelor's degrees, and also applied to Central Michigan University. But my wallet wasn't thick enough to go on to Michigan State. I did visit there, and uh one of my best friends in class, Chuck Newbecker, ended up with a summa cumulati in chemical engineering, went on to get a master's at the University of California

College Hustle And ROTC Path

11:15

in Brooklyn. And so I ended up commuting for the first year. Parents had a car I could use. I mentioned my mother working at the John Electric plant in Edmore. They hired students of employees on. I worked meeting a long time ago. But uh I ended up working every hour I could. Bob Fields was a former and I worked 28 days straight at one point. Bob, you want to work this weekend? Yes, sir. That time and a half on Saturday, that double time on Sundays, looks pretty good in my bank account. Yeah. So after the first year, I uh was gonna transfer to Michigan State, but I would have lost too many credits and swan to make it feasible to do that. And so I moved in at nine Merrill Hall on Central's campus. Worked in the uh cafeteria in the morning, and I ended up with uh a pretty good life at Central Michigan. Um is that where you got your bachelor's in business? Where I got my degree from Central Michigan. Okay. Where I went on. Um ROTC was mandatory the first two years. You know, I don't think a lot of people realize that, but most of the colleges had an ROTC program that you had to participate in. Yeah. So I'll talk probably more in depth about that, but I went on to advance ROTC. Paid $28 a month from the government for going on to ROTC with the money that I had, with working, with that $28 a month, I could uh uh take a girl out and have pizza or something and have a good time. Yeah. It did cost me a little in the fact that I didn't know what I was going to go into in school. People said, well, just just take whatever you'd like. Don't worry about it. So I did. As I mentioned, uh the uh psychology. Well, they only had so many hours of electives. Right. So I had used up my electives, particularly with going on to Adman Thor TC. And so I ended up going back another semester. So instead of graduating in uh uh June uh 65, I ended up graduating in January of 66. And uh got my commission and went on from there. All right. So let's talk about that. Where did it so what happens after after college then? And had when when did your dad pass away? Was it during this time or was it later on? It was uh uh during that time after I graduated, I uh was assigned to Fort Lee, Virginia. They were uh organizing a new unit, and I got there, was the first person there, didn't really have a need for me yet, so they sent me on to Camp A. P. Hill up in Northern Virginia, kind of like our Camp Grill. Yeah. And I was kind of uh non-needed, so I was told uh, hey, go to the post office, uh, go check things out. So I spent some time there. Got back to uh Fort Lee and checked in, as I said, I was the first person there, and we organized a new unit.

First Army Assignment At Fort Lee

15:45

Uh John McMillan was a regular army officer, and he uh uh was the company commander. I ended up being the executive officer. To this day, he's passed away recently, but John McMillan and I have been very close relationship. I was also the uh supply officer. Was very interesting. They go down and pick up equipment and sign for it. We had uh trucks came from Diamond Real, Lansing, Michigan. Brand new trucks. And so I signed for those and we uh had that equipment as well as a lot of other petroleum equipment. Yeah. A lot of responsibility uh as as the the supply officer, uh mostly to keep the company commander out of trouble. And that supply officer is responsible for that equipment that he signed for. Right. Right. And uh if there should be a shortage or whatever, he's responsible to make up the difference. There's a story about that that we'll get into uh either now or perhaps later. Oh, we could talk about it now as while it's uh fresh on your mind. Okay. We moved on to uh Vietnam, put all of our equipment hauled to uh Norfolk, Virginia, and transported on to the Panama Canal, on to Vietnam. We flew the Oakland Army Terminal and were transported on the General Walker troop ship 17 days across the uh Pacific. There was a typhoon in the South China Sea, and so we stopped shortly in the Philippines, through the San Bernino Strait and on, went north uh west up to uh the area to escape the uh typhoon and headed south to Vietnam, stopped in uh

The Long Trip To Vietnam

18:15

Naha Oklahoma and we got to uh uh Vietnam. Was interesting. The ship dropped us off onto transport vehicles, and we went on to the uh shore like they did in Normandy. I always wondered about that. Yeah why? There was a pier there. Why didn't we just pull up to the pier and uh drop off? I found out later that the water was too shallow for the Walker troop ship to pull up to that pier. So they had to drop us out off out earlier. And so we got there in April of 66, dry as a bone until a month or so later when the typhoon or the uh the monsoon hit. Uh-huh. So anyway, back to the the uh story about the equipment. We were the 528 QM, Frentice PS, petroleum supply. We supplied the ninth infantry, primarily, and other units with petroleum. People aren't aware that there are three we ways to defeat an enemy. One is hand-to-hand combat. Number two is to deny them supplies. The infantry doesn't do too well without ammunition, without petroleum. Those tanks don't do very well when they run out of fuel. So the 28, 528 was very important. We transported fuel in 5,000 gallon trailers. But we might be hauling diesel fuel, and the next load to transport was GP4, fuel for jet planes.

Fuel Logistics And Why It Matters

20:25

So what we did was put JP four in that truck to then hauling diesel and then flush it out at a pit. The regulations required that when disposing of that fuel into the pit, there might must be a fire truck available. Fine. But there was only one fire truck in the area. The airport had planes coming in in worse shape than when they left. Right. So they needed the fire truck. An agreement was made that okay, we'll keep the fire truck at the airport primarily, but when the fuel that was being disposed of needed to be fueled, uh uh fire rid of, we'll bring the fire truck over and dispose of. So one day, PFC Reynolds goes out to dispense of this fuel, and all of a sudden, poof. Perhaps from a previous disposal, there was still some heat left, enough to ignite that fuel. Yeah. And that five thousand gallon trailer was bent, burnt the smillerines. PFC Reynolds was a black guy, but he turned white.

The Trailer Fire And Accountability

22:07

And mentioning the responsibility for now one less right. Well, it wasn't an easy thing to cover this problem. It went through the various channels. But it was said that the supply officer, the company commander, is now responsible for that piece of equipment. I went through holy hell with that. Trying to keep from being responsible to pay the government for a disposed of vehicle. Right. Because it was against regulation, so and so. Somebody from Saigon sitting up in the office took charge of this and got it written off as a combat issue. Combat loss, right? I finally got a piece of paper that when I turned over the supply that accounted for 19 instead of 20 today. That was a very difficult situation to deal with. I'll bet. Oh but you still have that piece of paper somewhere. It was a heck of a deal. Yeah. Yeah. And now how long were you in Vietnam? A year. Okay. I actually extended a month. Some of the other officers got their replacement coming in. So the existing officer kind of relaxed. Yeah. My replacement came in a day before. No, no relaxation for Bob, right? No going out. Uh that happened. But I extended a month so I wouldn't have to go to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and spend a little bit of time someplace. I don't know if this is the appropriate time to tell the whole story, but we had sent an advanced party over to Vietnam. Yep. Lieutenant Solma was in charge of the advanced party, went over. He said, one day, hey Bob, you ever have a some time in San Francisco? Go to the Condor Club or Big Owl. I later learned that they were strip club places. But I got discharged in Oakland. Decided that I would go and visit Big Owl's. Sounded interesting thing. Yeah. So I went and got a cab, told Big Al that I wanted to go to Big L's. And he said, fella, that is not around the corner. That isn't going to be a cheap trip. I said, hey, I got a thick wall. I just got paid off and discharged. Take me there.

Homecoming, Protesters, And Relief

25:55

Okay, we went. It was kind of cool, maybe in the 50s as I recall. Yeah. Kind of a light rain. And we got there, and there were a lot of folks they called protesters holding up signs. Things like baby killers. Well, I was not in the mood to really want to relax and enjoy big L's. Take me to the airport. I went to the airport, got a flight on American Airlines, and it was a wonderful experience. I was treated like a royalty, including Detroit, and then on another flight to Saginaw. My mother picked me up there and went on to wait. So full circle. Full circle. So this would have been what, 68, 67, 68? 68. Yeah. April of 68. Yeah. Leaving. Left from Thomson Air Air Base outside of Saigon. Uh-huh. When that plane left that runway and pulled off, there was a roar like I've never heard. Far more of a roar than any athletic event where you win the national championship of basketball by one point coming from behind. It was a roar more than any other activity. I suspect that a lot of these other guys were probably combat soldiers. And they're going home. Yeah. But I gotta tell you, I remember this day what that was like at roar. We went on to stop at Yakota, Japan. And from Yakota on to Anchorage. I had on my khaki, short sleeve shirt, sitting in the second row of that plane, and we landed at Anchorage, Alaska. When you open that door, snowflakes were blowing in. Wow, what a change. A lot different from Vietnam, huh? Sure was. And so that was from there, you know, on to Legacy Bank to Oakland. Yeah. Well, what how did it feel to be back home on American soil? Well, it was great. Probably jump around here a bit. But after being back, a niece of mine said, Uncle Bob, her son was writing a paper, and he would like to talk to someone who has been to Vietnam. Would you mind talking to him? I said, yes, yes, of course. So we talked and he had a couple of questions. One was, was it was what was it like being there? Well the army calls the things a tour. Right. It really wasn't a tour. His other question though was more catching, and that was, were you scared? Yeah. And I explained to him

Fear, Mentors, And Taking Command

29:56

that in many functions, whether it's police work, firemen, first responders, there is risk with all of them. You cannot sit and be overwhelmed by the fact you may be in an area that is not risky, uh, comfortable, and so on. What you do is accept that as part of your job. So I accepted it. You can't get over there and just be a nervous wreck. You have to control your emotions, not let your emotions control you. And so, yes, there were times where it wasn't the most comfortable, and so on. We'll probably talk about some of that. Um because I'm going a little off course here, maybe in around, but there are two men that have in me in my life I've had the greatest respect for, that have really helped me get to where I am. One I mentioned, Captain John McMillan, regular army officer. One day I went in and had a conversation with him. I don't remember now what it was about, but he said, Bob, you've got a job to do. I have got a job to do. I am not gonna do your job. If you run into something that's beyond your pay grade, where it's necessary, come back. Otherwise, get the hell out of here and go do your job. I did. The other is Colonel William B. Noly. He was my mentor in ROTC. We had to write a paper. I wrote mine. Japan versus US. Why? And as I mentioned, I grew up as very inadverted, quiet, and so on. After we were in Vietnam about three months, Captain McMillan got promoted up to 53rd group 53rd group headquarters. They needed a new company commander. A guy that was the executive officer would be a good one. So they called me and they moved me up. Some of those past experiences would come back. How does this guy that is a nervous, no-self felt confidence guy at one time and so on, he can't go out in front of his unit and wet his pants. No, he goes out, guys, we got a job to do. Let's get at it. These guys never knew my background. Yeah. But one day, I'm at the officers' club, I go in and sit down and guess who I saw but Colonel Nolley, who was the major, when I first met him. Hey, Lieutenant, how are you doing? Well, pretty good, but you know, I've had some anxieties recently and so on. Really? What about? So I told him the story about becoming a company commander. He said, Lieutenant, you just do your job the best you can. That's all anybody can ask of you. I have remembered that. I have to this day throughout my career after the military. Remembered that. So he's important to me. As my ROTC mentor, we had a lot of other conversations about what going into the military is going to be like. He was that personal guidance type guy. But there's another part of it. After that conversation in Vietnam, he is the last casualty of Vietnam. A few hours after they agreed to call a halt to things, he was killed in an artillery attack. I will remember Colonel Lulley. Every day of my life. Yeah. An important, important main to me. Makes me think right now about it. Yeah. I can picture him. Isn't it amazing that that if you look at your whole life, that was a very short period of time in your life, but it really made a difference. It really gave you a lot of tools that you've used since, it sounds like. It sounds like. Now, is there anything else about uh Vietnam that you want to talk about? We could talk for hours. Yeah. I've covered some of the uh uh parts that I was prepared to share. Okay. As I mentioned growing up as a youngster and so on, uh the grave thing. Um as I mentioned, our unit supplied fuel to primarily the uh ninth infantry, which was headquartered in the Mekong Delta. Uh one of my platoons was assigned to Dong Tam. When I see a person with a Vietnam hat on, I will walk up and introduce myself and ask where fellow Vietnam vet served. Vietnam is a long country. Like California, it's actually longer than is California.

Vietnam Realities Beyond The Base

37:36

One person so far that I've talked to has never mentioned Dongdam. Nothing but a mud hole. Another platoon was attached to a unit in Canto. Got a picture of it, the airfield elevation seven feet at Cantou. I spent a good amount of time in Huey helicopters flying back and forth to the various sites. Um kind of going back to things about Vietnam, I was tasked with conducting a session to provide our troops with info about Vietnam. When we were at Fort Lee, Virginia, they didn't really tell us where we're going. Some units were going to other places, could be Thailand or other places in Laos in the Asia. But one day, young private member talking, he said, Lieutenant, sir, I know where we're going. I said, Really? I don't. He said, we're going to Vietnam. How do you know that? He said, well, we turn in our laundry, and our laundry came back dyed green, others came back white. The greeners are going to Vietnam. He was right. I learned that. The enlisted guys definitely have, they're like plugged in, aren't they? Yeah, they they they they pick up on things. And so, anyway, about the you know the history of Vietnam. Um, I'm a history mob. I knew something of Vietnam before ever going there. Recently, over Memorial Day, I get very involved in Memorial Day activities. Starts out with the Memorial Parade in Grand Edge, our American Legion unit. We'll be part of that parade. Uh but good back to Vietnam, the French colonization. Eventually, they were defeated at the Battle of Di and Bin Phu. And I know about the geography of the place. I meant to say earlier, it was a Memorial Day, watching many programs, movies, and so on, the percentage of people here at home did not know what Vietnam was. Right. Didn't but you know, they learned later. But I I knew about Vietnam. I wanted to see it. So I'm gonna get off a little bit of a tangent here. One day I go back into the officers club again, and one of the guys that I had met and developed a relationship with was a special forces guy. And so he, hey Bob, I've got to run up to uh Kuchi in a couple days, pick up some paperwork. Would you like to run up with me? Yes, yes, yes. The next morning, I get a call from our battalion commander, name was Frank Coos. Lieutenant, get in my office now. I went, checked in with him, and he said, What do you think you are? A goddamn tourist over here or what? I was shocked. And he said, Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? No, sir, I don't. Well, this idea that you're gonna tour around this country is not gonna happen. You are staying here. I don't want to ever hear this kind of thing again. Okay, so that was it. I wanted to see the Central Highlands. I wanted to see something else. But uh all I saw, you know, was the mud of places like that. Uh so after that conversation, uh he told me to get back to my unit. And so moving on from there. We've talked about some of the other incidences uh of having the uh fire of the uh vehicle. I had a situation where this young private was always in a bit of trouble. I had guys working ten, twelve hours a day. Remarkable what these guys were doing. Except for this young private. That was about enough of it. Article 15 didn't change his way. So I set him up for a higher level of discipline. He got sent to

Discipline, Congress, Convoys, And Tet

44:35

LBJ. LBJ's been for long been jail. Oh. Ben Long. Uh-huh. So one day, one of the other officers, battalion, told me, Lieutenant, you got a congressional coming down. I had no idea what he was talking about. So he explained to me. There were a lot of things going on over here. And his mother probably got a different story from what the real story. Well, our politicians want to get re-elected. They want to appease their voters. Right. So they're going to do what they can for the voters. So they take this and they elevate this on up through channels, eventually up to the Department of the Army and wherever ends up going through the air, back down to the units of Vietnam, back down to 53rd Group, down to the 2nd Maintenance Battalion. And they came up with the requirement that he not be left there to sit there and just be taken advantage of. We're going to be nice. So I had to go visit him. I don't know whether it was every two weeks, four weeks, whatever it was. Had to go up there in the Long Ben, meet up with it, say, Private, how are things going? Hope things are going well for you. We really miss you. We can't wait for you to get back. Oh boy. Well, that one might have been pretty good for Wayne, but it was an experience for me. Get out in the airfield. I get on a flight living at 1,400 hours. It's now 1,600 hours, there's no point. 1800 hours, a Here helicopter comes in. Get on, we're going to Benoit. We get out in the air, and all of a sudden that aircraft got a notice or some required emergency type trip or something. So they pull in some base camp and dump me off. Stay overnight, watch motors going off, and the next day hopefully get back to go see Wayne. So his experience was a lot more comforting than mine. Yeah. So a lot of country, you know, flying around in Huey helicopters. And so that was part of it. Well my main unit's operation was fairly secure. We were on a peninsula. And so things were pretty good. Had a nice officer's club. But we spent a lot of time out on convoys hauling this fuel. The Ming Kong knew that disrupting that was in their interest. And I have a picture log, pictures I've taken there, one showing labeled as another pothole, where we're going down these two-track roads, and all of a sudden some explosive the hole of the road. So now we have to go into defensive posture. Now we were guided by uh infantry and aircraft, which gets me off course again talking about aircraft. I'd heard about B-52 bombers, but really didn't have a real experience with a B-52 bomber. One day I'm watching out and I see these bombers are dropping these bombs off some distance away, and they flew over us. Count eight engines and so on. So it wasn't always the most desirable thing to do. I certainly don't want to in any way not be respectful to the infantry. I have the greatest respect for the infantry. One of my high school classmates, Almus Brown, was in the infantry, one of those guys hauling their M16 over their head, going through waterways and so on. Yeah. He was special to me because going back to the life at Weyman, his parents didn't live in one place any too long. And it's our senior school year of school, and the parents are moving on. Knowing a life my mother had, she took concern and ended up, he lived with us that last year at our home. Did a lot of things together with him. We had a lot of contact. So Elmus Brown, an infantry troop, doing it. Back at Waitman, I mentioned Bill City, perhaps. Another friend, Don Schmidt, was a special forces officer. He was killed in Vietnam. So I am lucky, Mob, but I still have feelings for those that didn't make it back. Right. And so now we're back in Vietnam, we're hauling, you know, this petroleum. I've seen how many millions of gallons we hauled. I do have a positive feeling about what we did for supporting those troops. Certainly in no way. I mentioned I don't want to have a Vietnam hat or license plate because I don't want to call attention myself because my real tribute is to those guys. But I've been through some areas there. Part of that, I mentioned many people don't mean knowing about the country of Vietnam. Let's know about what the Tet Offensive was. Many areas that we'll call secure, safe, whatever we want to call them, had a drastic change, including Saigon. One of the towns that Bower we went through, never really had any problem. Until the next time we went through and saw bodies stacked up on a corner. So about the Tet Offensive, it's in effect a national holiday, like our New Year's. Very important to people there. They put a great deal of effort into preparing for Tet, hauling materials down through the through Cambodia, through the Viet Cong trail, very well supplied all of these areas that were previously safe. And they hit all these areas during the Ted offensive. Mentioned previously the Mekong Delta, the Mekong River tributaries. The VC had been conducting operations in the Mekong. But all of a sudden they chose to now increase their activities. And that's where I mentioned perhaps the great respect I have for the Navy because the Navy started escorting us, hauling those bargers. At first we were hauling transporting as much as we could by aircraft, but that's a very limited amount. So through the Mekong, the Navy supporting us was great. It changed things for you. It really helped us do our job. Yeah. So the tour, as it's called, of doing the Vietnam was for one year, but during that year each person was given an RR, rest and recuperation, of a week. I chose to not go to someplace like Hawaii because married guys would want to see their wives in Hawaii. There are only so many slots and so on. I can always go to Hawaii. Thought about Australia, but I decided, why don't I go someplace that I probably am not going to get to?

R And R In Singapore

56:26

Singapore was to the west. So I went to Singapore. It was a very enjoyable time, good restaurants, bars, entertainment. And so that was my visit there. How long was your RR? Was that two weeks? One week. Oh, just one week, okay. I think I mentioned earlier that I extended for a short period so that I could leave. And we went on from there and ended up back in uh so you extend it for a month so that you would be just discharged when you got back, right? From there. Gotcha. Okay. And that's when you ended up in Oakland and then flying home. Yeah. Stop that. You quoted Japan on the way back. Uh-huh. Uh that was interesting. Uh only authors could get off and uh and uh go in. Um after I got back I ended up um getting a job at uh Michigan National Bank. The oldest bank in Michigan and moved on when LaSalle Bank in Chicago bought the bank, then PC Bank bought

Building A Career After War

58:36

uh the uh payment processing part that I was involved with. And then finally Bank of America took over from PNC. Bank of America, the best business I ever worked for, uh, treated us very well, not like just some big uh all-world business. They gave us stock, they uh treated us very well, and so I ended up retiring from uh the Bank of America. So you were in the banking industry your whole time after the service then Yes, but I I didn't skip part of it. I don't know why. When That's why I'm here. Actually, I should move this around. Um when I got back, I had job offers from some well-known companies. Ryder Truck Rental is out of Miami, uh Chicago Board of Trade in Chicago. And as my father had died while I was in the army, my mother was now on her own, didn't really want to go to someplace like Miami. And so I wanted to stay closer to home. Yeah. One of the fellows that I had a relationship with in the army uh was with a placement agency, Snelling and Snelling, and we got together and he was opening a new operation here in Lansing called availability personnel. I joined up with him, had an office with nothing but a card table and a couple of chairs, and we ended up developing the search business. Things went quite well, but later on he just started having some I think with mental problems. And so I had decided to go off on my own. Along with another person whose name was Sherman Marzall. Well, I had named the business Technicon Engineering Services, because going to specialize in the technical field. I got a correspondence from a business in Connecticut, Technicon Instruments Corporation, accusing me of misusing the name, their name, with a requirement to cease and desist using the name Technicon. I was not able to fight them, so I did. So I changed the name to Sherman Marzov. Not Shermanov to Sherman, Sherm Tech, with my Technicon and his Marzov name. Yeah. Did fairly well. But there were times when things monetarily were a little tough. Had a person that worked with us, and I had hired. He was going to handle things in the computer area, and one of our clients invited him to join their company. So he sold me on the idea how it would be very uh helpful if he were with this other new company. He would know businesses in the computer area and he could drive business our way. Marzoff decided that he would like to be in a warmer area, I guess. Why don't we start a branch in Florida? Many candidates that we would recruit would want to move to a different area myself. So I saw that as a very good opportunity to have a candidate from here that wanted to go there, we could trade, and Marzoff would place him in Florida. Yeah. Well, I ended up getting more bills and things, and I need revenue coming in from there. Not a good business model. Wasn't working well. I was working my tail off, and I did not want to fail. Right. My wife and some friends were gonna get together on a Friday and have uh get together, and uh so on. Well, I got involved with a conversation with a client in California, a few hours time difference. I can't tell the guy, hey, I gotta move on. I gotta I got a party to get to. You take care of that client. And so when I finally got joined the group, uh they were all soccered out and so on. But I could not quit. Yeah. Uh I was doing fairly well. And had a couple of other people. One day, I uh had a situation. My wife said, Bob, got boy, a bunch of bills coming this month. Uh you think you'd be able to help out with some of them? I said, Yeah, I've got a deal going that is going to be a very lucrative deal. Looks very, very promising. And it did. It came through with a very large revenue producer. But the other people I had weren't doing so well. There were more eight to fivers. And I was providing them an advance. And that advancing hit my checkbook account pretty hard. Yeah. So one day I told my wife, sorry to tell you this, but the deal fell through. I'm not going to be able to make it. That is one of the most tragic things of my life. I believe in honesty. To tell her that I lost the deal. On one hand, I want to be happy, proud, feel good. And the other hand to tell her, sorry, I lost the deal. Very, very painful. So I made a decision. That's it. I had done work with Michigan National, and that's where the woman, Linda, somehow I had to tell her about it. And she said, Bob, if you need a job, we want you. I've gone through the ups and downs. I've worked. I believe in work. Can't tell anybody. No. No. That's when I ended up retiring from Black America. Very happy with it. I'll kind of finalize this by saying that I don't call attention myself. I do feel I served well. I am grateful for the relationships that I did develop. And it's been this one heck of an experience. And I'll kind of leave that with talking about an experience. One day I had a person ask me, Bob, you're a Vietnam vet. I'd like to ask you a question. Should we have been there? And I said how we got involved was after the French were defeated, the communists were taking over, the Chinese, blended with the Vietnamese that were the Northern Vietnamese.

Should We Have Been There

1:10:03

Things carried on. They decided they were going to blend back together one country of Vietnam. The United States got involved by supporting the South Vietnamese with helpfulness as far as warfare and so on, but not military battle part of it. Things progressed on to okay. We did start sending troops. Eventually, 500,000. We had over 58,000 casualties. Our intentions were well. I was, we'll say, indoctrinated with the theory that if the Viet Cong take over Vietnam, they will also take over Thailand and layouts. So we had a good reason to be there to see that that did not happen. We had good intentions, but the way things evolved were not good. I'm aware what was going on here back home with the protesting, the Kent University killing, all the other things. But horrible the way our troops coming back were treated. They didn't choose to get involved in a war. Those were drafted didn't go there because it was their idea. But the way things developed, the way we pulled out, pulled out our troops. We eventually pulled out our military support. We left the Vietnamese on their own. We left there, leaving off from the embassy out to ships, and we left that country. So when I look at it today, should we have been there? The way it evolved, no. Initially, we had good intentions, yes, but not the way we left it. And so it's unfortunate. That's where we are. Well, Bob, I'd like to ask you another question, too. Um First, is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanted to cover? Or have you have you covered everything that you wanted to talk about there? Pretty well then. Okay. Um then my my last question then really is this. Um, you know, years from now, when someone is listening to your story or watching this story, um what message would you like to leave for people? What piece of advice would you like to give folks uh long after you and I are gone? Just a general point is getting into war. Understand that there is a sufficient reasonable requirement. Not politically. Our present situation with Iran, I have a concern. Our involvement has to do with Iran developing a nuclear weapon. How dangerous really is that to us, the United States? If they were to foolishly attacked using a nuclear weapon,

Advice On War And Duty

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we have got far more nuclear weapons. Hiroshima in Nagasaki would be a very small response, what they would end up getting. And so I really have a question now, would they really use that against us? I don't think so. Well be careful about what we get into. If you're in a military, understand your obligation, a duty, like Colonel Lowley said, do your job the best you can. Do what's honorable. Don't be a guy like Wayne to be doing inappropriate things while your fellow troops are wearing themselves out. Because I gotta tell you, I just have great respect for a guy that I saw that were wore out. Now, as I say, I watch a lot of military. Being in combat in World War II in Korea, uh it is horrible. Talk about being war out. Probably more war out than my guys were, but do your job. And so I I appreciate this conference. I think it's helpful to me probably more than anybody else will get out of it. Uh I'm I'm happy that I served, I'm happy that I got back. Uh, I can honestly feel I did my job. And uh that's the end of it. All right. Well, thanks for spending the afternoon with me, Bob. I really appreciate it. And let me say welcome home, and we're glad that uh that you did make it back. I I enjoyed it.