What Does A Second Chance Really Cost (Tod Smith)

One decision after high school can change the whole arc of your life, especially when it sends you farther than you ever expected. We’re joined by Tod Smith, a Lansing, Michigan native who joins the United States Navy looking for a reset, only to get rerouted by a colorblind test, pushed through boot camp at Great Lakes, and then surprised with orders to Japan. Along the way, Tod shares what it feels like to arrive overseas as a young sailor, how engine room crews become family, and why the first time stepping off base in Subic Bay can humble you fast. 

We also dig into the everyday realities that people rarely describe: the humor and pressure of being the new guy, the mentors who quietly keep you on track, and the way travel and cultural differences in 1980s Japan expand your worldview. Tod reflects on deployments, including time near the Persian Gulf, and how some missions feel oddly familiar decades later. If you care about Navy stories, military life, and leadership under stress, this conversation delivers the details that make those themes real. 

Then the story turns to the hard part: the transition to civilian life. Tod talks about finding his footing at the Lansing Board of Water and Light, working brutal shifts, and eventually moving into major responsibility managing Lansing’s water supply. He also shares the moment he got fired early in his career, the strict path to earn his job back, and how resilience became more than a buzzword. If you’ve ever needed a second chance or wondered how to rebuild discipline, you’ll take something practical from this one. 

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who needs a reset, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Tod Smith

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today is Monday, June 15th, 2026. We're talking with Tod Smith, who served at the United States Navy. So good morning, Todd Good morning. Thanks for taking time out of your busy day to sit and talk with us today. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

All right. Well, we'll just get started right away with uh probably the hardest question. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Uh I was born right here in Lansing, Michigan, in 1967.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Okay. Uh yeah. And uh grew up in Lansing then?

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Grew up in Lansing. Uh outside of the uh my time in the military. I was in Lansing my entire life.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Okay. And brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Two brothers, uh both younger. Um my middle brother also was in the Navy. Um, and then my uh younger brother uh didn't go in the military, but he still lives in the area. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

So you're the oldest?

SPEAKER_02 0:46

I'm the oldest.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

So you're the oldest of three. You're in charge.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

So three boys though, that must have kept your parents busy.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

It did. Uh, and great story. Uh my mom had all three of us by the time she was 21. So she had me when she was 15.

Growing Up In Lansing

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Um, and then uh shortly after I was born, my dad went off to Vietnam. So uh, and he was gone for a short period of time. But yes, um, three boys all by the time my mom was 21 years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Oh my gosh. Yeah, wow. She must have been tired a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

She was. I always told her she raised uh five five boys, three, three of her boys, and then my dad, and then her my stepdad. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

She'd probably agree with you on that one too. Well, tell me about your parents then.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Uh my mom and dad, both born and raised in Lansing here. Um my mom had a pretty rough upbringing. Uh, so as soon as she met my dad, you know, it was uh an escape for her. Uh so she got pregnant pregnant for me. And um back then, you know, she dropped out of school. Uh my dad also dropped out of school. Um and uh yeah, he not long after I was born, you know, like I said, he went overseas. He went to Vietnam, him and my uncle both. Um and he spent he was there six months and he was injured. Um he was shot in the foot. So we moved to Pennsylvania for a little while. My mom and I and my grandmother. Um he was there in a hospital. Uh he went to Germany first and then over to Pennsylvania. So, of course, I was young, so I don't remember that, but I I've heard so many stories.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Um, but both of my parents, uh great people. Um, they they fought hard to raise us right, uh, which I feel they did. Uh my brothers and I are fairly successful. Uh they didn't have much. We didn't have much growing up. We lived over on the south side of Lansing there. Um went to Dwight Rich and Everett High School, and uh they did what they could. Uh my dad eventually uh worked for General Motors, um, and we we were a little bit better off. Uh but early on, um, it was odds and end jobs. My mom did not work, she was a stay-at-home mom the entire hour growing up. Uh she eventually also went into the workforce um and retired uh from hospital in Charlotte. Uh yeah, good people, just worked very hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Sounds like it. So Dwight Rich in in Everett High School, then um, what was school like for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Um I was a little bit of an underachiever, so it was it was a little tough sometimes. Um my dad was very tough on me. Uh I can remember spending weeks in the house not being able to go outside because I didn't bring home a good grade or something, right? Right. Um, but I had a lot of friends, got along, you know, I'm pretty easygoing, so I got along with a lot of people, no problems there. Uh yeah, just uh didn't give

School Struggles And Football Roots

SPEAKER_02 4:05

it my all.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

But were you that kid? Like I remember being that kid where your uh guidance counselor would say something like, he's got great potential.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Um which made my parents even angrier.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And you know, I I don't know if they do it nowadays. I don't remember my kids having this, but back then um you not only got your grade, but you got a citizenship grade.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Oh yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

And I would always get like a B5 because I was always talking, right? I was always that person that was always paying attention to everybody else and getting yourself in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, wow, I forgot all about the citizenship grades. That's that's funny. Now, did you play uh sports or did you have like I did? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Uh my dad was actually a football coach um in his spare time, uh, all the way up through the semi-pro ranks.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

So uh it was kind of an expectation that his boys were gonna play football. Um, I did, and my middle brother did. My younger brother didn't, he had some hip problems, but uh so I played football from the time I was six until I graduated high school. Um yeah, played for you know some of the younger teams around here, and then I played for uh Dwight Rich and I played for Everett High School. Uh won a city championship uh my last year of pop warner football.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Um not to toot my own horn, but I was pretty good. Um I never came off the field.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Um I would think with your dad as the coach and you playing football for so long, I'd be disappointed if you weren't good at it.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, I was all right. I I, you know, I was a pretty good athlete. Yeah. Um I didn't enjoy football probably as much as he would like me to, would have liked me to um when I got to the high school ranks, but um, I was still there and you know, and I had a good time with it, and I met a lot of good people. Um one of the most influential people in my life, um, who turned out to end up being my dad's best friend. Oh uh my dad joined the coaching staff uh when I when I played Pop Warner for the team I played on, and the head coach, Dick Dragasick, um took care of you? I talked to him yesterday. Um great guy. Uh he's actually my uncle now. My aunt would come out to our games and they ended up uh becoming a couple. He's been my uncle for 45, 45 years. Um yeah, just a fantastic individual.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. What what what do you think that he did for you that your maybe your your dad didn't do for you? Because I I can see it. Like this guy is really somebody important to you.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah. Um very important to me. Uh he he just taught me how to, you know. I mean, my dad, you know, my dad taught me how to be a man as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Um but without going into too much detail, that's fine. My uncle was he just genuine, just a genuine person and just taught me like kind of who I really want to be.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah. That's great. I I you know, I think everybody needs that that influence in their lives. Yeah, for sure. I think that keeps a lot of people from uh going off on a path they don't need to go off on. Yeah. Now, when did your parents split up? Because you mentioned that you had a stepdad.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, my parents were uh they were married for 32 years.

unknown 7:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

A long time. Um, you know, again, since my mom's teen years, right? Right. Uh they they were married for quite a while and then um they got divorced. Uh then my mom uh actually lived with me for a while. Uh then she met a man, a wonderful guy. Uh and they were married for over 20 years. Wow. Yeah, they're both gone now, they're they're both past, and so's my dad.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So but yeah, now it's up to you to kind of carry on the legacy, right? Yes. Yeah. So let's back up a little bit then. You uh you get through high school. Um, what happens after high school?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Uh well, I mentioned I was a little bit of an underachiever, right? Um I did just enough to get by. I did just enough to to pass and graduate and that kind of thing. Um and then reality hits you, life hits you, and you're like, now what? Right? Um, there was no way I I was gonna go to college. I didn't have the help, you know, my parents weren't gonna help me to try to figure

Choosing The Navy After High School

SPEAKER_02 8:40

that out. And I really didn't know where to start. So I went down to the recruiting office, told my dad, you know, maybe maybe I want to go this route. Um, you can learn a skill, you can do, you can get paid, you know, you can travel. Um, and he's actually the one that taught me into the Navy because I had an uncle uh that was in the Navy. And we sat down and talked to him. And my dad was in the army, and he wasn't too hip on uh me joining the army and just going off to somebody's desert. So he's like, you should really check out the Navy. So I did. Um, it looked fun, it looked interesting. Um, so we went down to the recruiting office and I joined.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, what was it back then? Join the Navy, see the world? Yeah, the army was be all you can be. Yep. Yeah, yeah, I remember those days. And uh so talk me through that. Like, so you pretty much knew you were gonna join the military then when you went to go see the recruiter. I did. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

It was kind of felt like the only option I had, right? Because I was working two jobs at the time. Um, I was working a construction job with uh Clark Foundation cement work. That was pretty tough work. Yeah. Um and then on the side, I was working at McDonald's just to make some extra cash. Uh this seemed like a real a good out, right? Uh-huh. I don't, I can leave that, leave the area for a little bit, kind of reset, figure out where my life's gonna go. So um, yeah, that was that was most of the reason I joined. And I, you know, when I went down to the recruiting office, my recruiter was a gunner's mate.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

And I thought, I gotta do something that when I get out, it'll relate, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Um, and he was telling me all about, you know, the big thing coming, you know, electronics and hydraulics. This is 1985, right? Oh, yeah. So uh there was no internet or nothing like that yet, no flat screen TVs, no cell phones, but technology, right? So he was like, you know, this this could this could relate to the outside. Um so I signed on as a gunner's mate, and then I went to boot camp and found out that I was colorblind.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

No, so that was a little curveball. Yeah. Um, so there are uh these are the six rates that you can do, right? So I chose machinist mate and and that's what I went in as. And that's a hardworking job uh right there. It is, it is, but um, I enjoyed it, uh got me to where I'm at today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

So well, so let's um let's talk a little bit about so how long before from the time you enlisted to the time you actually went to basic training? Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, it was a short period of time. Oh, okay. Yep. So I enlisted in June and I left for boot camp in September.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Oh, okay. And where'd you go to boot camp?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Great Lakes. Oh. North of Chicago. Yeehaw. Yeah. Right on the lake? Yeah. Marching in mid-November. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

It's a good time. Yeah. And the gunner's mate school is right there, right? Uh or is that someplace else?

SPEAKER_02 11:43

I'm not sure if that. The machinist mate's school's there.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Oh, the machinist mate, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

After boot camp.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah. So tell me a little bit about when you first got to boot camp. I mean, you're already an athlete, so the physical part doesn't seem like it would be such a big deal, but yeah, um, what was it like getting to boot camp and what were your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Um my thoughts were holy cow. Uh boarded the bus right down here in Lansing, waved bye to my parents, and uh went to Detroit. Um, and then from there uh over took a bus over to Great Lakes. I remember it like it was yesterday. There was a whole slew of us on the bus. We get off.

Boot Camp Shock And Early Leadership

SPEAKER_02 12:25

It's dark out already, it's eight o'clock at night. Yeah. Uh, you know, and you can they can hear you coming and you can hear them coming.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

They're ready for you, but you're not really ready for them, are you?

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Correct. Uh I remember getting off the bus and it was downpouring rain. Um, and they had us, there was a tunnel uh between the boot camp and the other side of the base. And uh they had us march through the tunnel. It was like knee deep full of water that went under the road. Um, yeah, and I just remember the first morning waking up, you know, being a little scared, but I also knew that uh, you know, it's their job. Uh my dad had me very well prepared. Um, they're gonna try to find your weakness, right? And they're gonna they're going to uh get in your face a little bit, but just keep your mouth shut and your head up and do what you're told. So that's what I did, and it really made it a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah. So, and I actually uh uh approached my company commander and I was the athletic petty officer during boot camp. Um, so I overseen all of our uh uh calisthenics, all that stuff, getting ready for our tests, you know, before we could graduate boot camp.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

So you know it's interesting because when we at least when I went to boot camp, everybody was like, Don't volunteer for anything, don't volunteer for anything. If you're smart about what you volunteer for, uh it can it can be a benefit. Yes. Well you don't just raise your hand for everything, but you know, if you find something you like, uh it it doesn't hurt to do those things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

You know, and and you fill out your sheets when you go in, what your hobbies are. They had another guy picked as the athletic petty officer, and then he got in some trouble after like a week two and he was gone. So uh we were two or three days after that. Um, they hadn't picked anybody, so I actually went to the company commander's office and asked him if I could uh take on that role and he gave it to me. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Now I I have a question that's like totally out of left field, but I always ask this because I uh went into the Navy in eight at the end of 84 in like the summer of 84. Um did you guys stay at the Mariner Hotel in Detroit before you left? Or do you even remember it? Because I just remember the Mariner Hotel and it was just awful.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

I I do remember it was an awful hotel. It was old, yeah, but I don't remember the name of it.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

I'll never forget it ever. So you get the basic training. It sounds like things went pretty well for you. Did you make uh like some good friends there? Did you you know meet other people? How did that go for you?

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yeah, it went well. Again, like I said earlier, I'm very laid back. It's easy for me to talk with people. Um, I did make some good friends, uh, some people that uh carried over into our A school, and we would travel back and forth from Chicago on the weekends, come home for a weekend, we'd ride together, that kind of thing, people that were local here. Um, so yeah, I made some made some pretty good friends. There's nobody I really keep in touch with anymore from boot camp, uh, but definitely from my time on the ship, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Oh yeah, absolutely. So you get out of boot camp and um your A school is right there. Uh how was A school any different from boot camp or or was it different from boot camp for it?

SPEAKER_02 15:27

It was it was different and uh we had a little bit more freedom. You know, we didn't have to stay on base on the weekends, that kind of thing. We could um head out into town, uh go to the mall, whatever we wanted to do, or come home for the weekend, which we did quite often.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. Now, did they do um I remember in A school you would have a test like every Friday, and then if you scored a certain score, you could leave at noon on Friday. So that was a great incentive to tap into my potential. Did they do the same with you guys?

SPEAKER_02 15:57

I don't recall that.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

It's possible, but I don't recall, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah. Spent a lot of time on the train between Michigan and and uh and Great Lakes, anyway, myself. Uh so how long was um your A school?

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Uh A school was 16 weeks, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah, boot camp was eight, and then A school was 16. And so did you come home after A school then? I did. I came home. Uh I already knew at that point that I was going to Japan uh from my first uh duty station. Oh I was in A school when um the commander called me into his office and he informed me that uh you're you're heading to Japan. You've been chosen to go overseas and serve in Japan over in Asia. Um and a little for a little bit I was like, whoa. I chose like May port, everything on the East Coast, Mayport, Florida, Norfolk, you know, and they're like, you're going to Japan. Welcome to the Navy. Yeah. So I was a little nervous about that, but um I embraced it. So I came home, they gave me uh some time off in between uh A school and actually flying over to Japan.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

So what was it like coming home after that experience? After the A school experience? After A school and basic training and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Um I felt accomplished, I felt like I felt proud. I felt like I had I had done something, right? And I got to talk to all my high school buddies and kind of tell them about it, and it was real cool. Yeah, and it was it was a family time, right? Because I knew I was gonna be leaving uh for at least a few years. Um so spent a lot of time with my family, and yeah. It was a night, it was good, it was a good time to to be home and just talk with my dad and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Now, did any of your buddies join as a result of you uh coming back home?

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Um not as a result of me. Uh but well, my younger brother, my middle brother, uh by the time I got out, he was in.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

So yeah, but um my my best friend in high school uh just retired from the army. Oh, so he was already involved um even through high school. He was already involved with local recruiting and different things. He knew that he was going in the army and and he actually just retired from the army. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Now you keep in contact with him? We do, yeah. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, so you uh come home, you jump on a plane, you head to Japan. Man, for a guy from the Midwest, Japan's got to be a little bit of a change.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

It was, it was. Uh and my ship was in the Philippines when I got to Japan, but I had to go um uh I had to go to the base to Japan before I could go to the ship in the Philippines. So went to the base, checked in. Um, I was there for about a week. Um, I had to go through some different couple different trainings, and then they flew me from Japan to the Philippines to meet my ship.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So

Orders To Japan And First Deployments

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

So I didn't really get off base too much when I've in that first week.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So So were they on a the were they on a like a six-month cruise on or deployment at that time?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah, they were on a deployment, but it wasn't for that long. They had just been gone for like a few weeks. Oh, yeah. Which we used to we did quite often. Well, as I found out when I when I got on the ship, you know, we'd do just a two-week jaunt over like we'd hit like uh Pusan, Korea, and then jump over to the Philippines and then come back. Well. Now, did you like that?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Like, what was what was it like like being in the Philippines for the first time?

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Wow, that's a great story. Um first time we pulled into the Philippines, I had no idea what to expect.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

And again, we're talking 1986. Um, it's uh some parts of the Philippines are like a third world country. I'm sure Manila is a nice big city, but we were nowhere near Manila. Um I was in Subic Subic Bay. Um and when I boarded the ship, they they put me in the uh forward engine room. Um didn't really feel like home to me. Um I didn't really get to know the guys in the forward engine room over the first few days. Um and they asked me, would you like to move to aft engine room? You know, I'm a young kid, uh away from home, didn't know what to expect. And I was like, sure. I moved to aft engine room, and after after the first day, I was like, this is home. Yeah. Uh it was a good feeling to get back there. Um, met some of the guys. Uh I still keep in touch with my LPO at the time, Nelson

Philippines Stories And New Guy Pranks

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Boyer, who lives up in Washington. Um he was uh I would say he's probably saved my time. Uh you know, because I got out, he just made me feel at home. Yeah, um, he would take all the guys over to his house. He was uh married to a wonderful Japanese lady who would make dinner for us, and it was fantastic. So him and I still keep in touch. He's pretty old now, but um so yeah, go when I when I when I went back to aft engine room is when things really started to come together for me. Yeah. Um and they just made it Nelson, more more so than anybody our LPO just really made it fun and kind of interactive. And um so my first time in the back to the original question, my first time in the Philippines um is when I got switched to aft engine room. But I didn't really know anybody yet. Took me a coup, you know, a few days. This is day one.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Um, so I thought, well, I'm gonna go see what this place is about. So I wandered off base. There's a bridge just off base. I crossed over the bridge, and probably within 10 feet I said, nope, I'm going back on base. Because it was pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Uh McSysi Street over in the Philippines. If you've never been there and you're 18 years old, um, it can be overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

You want to take some buddies with you if you're gonna do that, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yes. So I turned around and went back on back on base, back to the ship. And the next day, um Uh was day two or three in aft engine room and they're like, Come on, you're coming with us. Let's go. And I went with those guys, and yeah, they kind of showed me the ropes, and you they're like, Do this, don't do that, go here, don't go there.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

So you know, I it's interesting with the my time in the Navy as well, is I found that people like uh any place I went, it was kind of that similar situation where they would take you out and kind of show you the ropes. Now, that doesn't mean they didn't mess with you because you're the new guy, you've got to be messed with.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Um, so that happens, but yeah, I remember very similar experiences. And so when you got there, I mean, what was their uh what was their weapon of choice when it came time to mess with the new guy?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Oh, there's so many of them. What's your favorite? And I used a few of them on newer people, right? Right. Uh one of the ones I remember is they want you to go uh find batteries for the sound-powered phones, right? So you're walking all over the ship asking people where the battery's at, or they they want you to um go find keys to the steam chest. Yeah, right. Um, which is like where the the water comes in, scoop injection off the bottom of the ship in um so we could have water to turn to steam, right, to propel propel the ship. Right. Um and they uh they'd want you to go find the keys to the steam chest, which I always thought was pretty funny. They were sending you to find a BT punch. Oh yeah, I was just gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

And I actually did that to another guy that came on on board and uh he got injured and I felt bad. Oh no. Yeah, he got he got a BT punch, all right, from somebody that was a little bit bigger than him and he ended up with a cracked rib. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Only in the Navy can we laugh about that. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

You got a cracked rib?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

That's yeah, yeah. You felt bad for a few minutes, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Right. They probably wouldn't laugh about it nowadays, but no, I think you might get in trouble. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So now how long you so how long were you in Japan then?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

I was in Japan for uh right around just over three, over three years.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah. Did you come home at any time in that three years? I did. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah. About a uh about a year and a half in, I came home. I used 30 days of leave and came home uh for 30 days and then went back for the second half. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Now when you um when you came home, what was what was it like between you and your friends? Like uh you probably had friends that stayed here in Lansing and and did whatever they were doing. You probably had friends that had left. And what was it like coming home and seeing the people that you know just kind of hung out and stayed here?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Uh you know, I I didn't really uh see a lot of people in that month that friends of mine that I went to high school with and stuff. Um most of them were either had had gone somewhere, uh were in school and had other friends. Yeah. Uh most of that time was spent with my family.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah. You know, I it to me that feels like a theme with you. Like family's pretty important to you then.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Family's everything.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yep. Very important to me. Yep. I got you know, my wife and my two kids now, and um I have an an older uh an older daughter, she's not blood. She was my stepdaughter from a previous marriage, but she's 34, 35 now with five kids and living lives in Arizona. But we talk to her often as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So yeah. Well, that's great. I think family is important. Yeah, very she keeps us on on track sometimes for sure. Yeah. So you uh three years in Japan, anything else happened in Japan that you wanted to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Um well, I mean, you know, I was I went all over the place when I was over there. Uh just getting to know the culture, the culture was different. I'm sure it's a lot different today than it was in again in the 80s. Um but one of the things I remember is uh getting out the ship, leaving base. And uh back then, um all the the wives of the you know, the Japanese culture, the men would walk ahead and the wives would walk like 10 yards behind them with their heads down.

unknown 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

And I thought, why are all the women walking with their heads down here? You know, it was strange to me. Yeah. Um, but again, young, young guy, you know, um, but I embraced it. I embraced the culture over there. Um it was very cool to learn some of the language and um remove some of those barriers. And um, I met some of the, some of the some of my best friends, even still today, um, when I was over there in Japan and and on my ship, and um went to a lot of places,

Culture Lessons And Gulf Of Oman Patrol

SPEAKER_02 26:25

took a lot of pictures, um, sent a lot of lot of things home that I still have. My my mom and dad were so good about every time I would send something home, whether it was a picture or a letter, they saved them all. And they're all in these photo albums that I can now show my kids. So that that was pretty cool. Um uh spent time all over Far East Asia, did a three-month tour um just ahead of just ahead of the time when I got out, really. Um it was my last deployment. Um, we were in the Gulf of Oman uh just doing circles while they were um escorting Kuwaiti tankers out of the Persian Gulf. So that was not long before uh the like the first portion of Desert Storm.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah. Yeah, things haven't changed a lot in the last 40 years, have they? Yeah, yeah. Here we are again. Still escorting ships out of the Persian Gulf, huh? Yep, yeah. But yeah. So you uh um now did you did you uh get out then after your time in Japan? Yep, after my first tour.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Okay, I got out. Uh and and I'm not sure why to this day. Uh I mean things worked out for me. Yeah. Um I'm very blessed with with everything that's that I've done and everything that I've uh you know, where my family is and um everything that we have, roof over our heads, that kind of thing. But I still look back and I wonder to myself sometimes what would have been different, you know, what why? Why did I just one tour, you know, four years and I was out? Right. Oh, it's because it sounds like it was a great experience. It was, yep. It was a great experience. And uh I I my daughter just two weeks ago sent me an email and she goes, Dad, we've got a so my nephew just joined the army and he leaves for boot camp on July 20th. Um, and and somebody else that my daughter works with has a son that's that's going into the Air Force. So she emailed me and she goes, Can you give me a story? Can you give me some advice? I'm gonna write a letter to both uh her cousin and

Getting Out And Looking Back

SPEAKER_02 28:25

this co-worker's son. I want to write a letter and I just want, you know, like of encouragement, and I just want some advice from you. You know, what would you tell them coming out of high school and going to boot camp and going in the service? Um so so when I was talking, when I was writing an email back to her, um, that's when I was kind of thinking, you know, and it's not the first time, but why, you know, why'd you get out? I I work with a few guys that retired out of the service, out of the Navy. Um, they retired at 40, 41 years old, and they have a pension from the government and they're working for the board, same place I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

So yeah. Well, you don't get the benefit of knowing what would have happened, right? You only get the benefit of knowing what did happen.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Correct. And and again, I'm I'm very blessed with my family and the position I'm in today. And had I stayed in, I might not uh, you know, probably wouldn't have my kids and my wife, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yeah. Some of the things I hold close. Well, let's talk about that a little bit then. So you uh get out of the Navy, uh you you come back to Michigan then. Yep. Uh, and then and then what happens now you you're not married yet, right? At this point?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

At this point, nope. Okay. Uh yeah, I get home. Um I I did a couple odd jobs. Uh I sold vacuum cleaners for a while. Uh you're that guy. I'm that guy knocking on the door, yeah, with the rainbow vacuum cleaner in hand. Yeah. I did that for a little bit, uh, just trying to find my way, you know. Um, and then I applied at the Board of Water and Light. They had some power plant positions open. Um, and I thought right up my alley, right? I worked in the engine room on the ship. Um, so I applied, and shoot, nine months after I got home from the service, I hired into the board 37 years ago, next month, and I'm still there. So hard to believe, isn't it? Like it is. It went by so quick.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah, like when you're that young, 37 years seems like a long time away. We're laughing at the old guys that we are today.

Civilian Transition And Utility Career

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Correct. Yeah, I remember those days. And uh so did it just feel like a natural fit, like like I understand why you applied to the job, but like when you got there, did it just feel like oh, this isn't that much different from what I was doing before?

SPEAKER_02 30:39

It did, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

It was very similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Um, I guess the only difference is uh I wasn't a boiler technician, right? So I wasn't working on the boilers, I was more on the propulsion side. Um, but an engine room's an engine room, right? And it didn't take much to to uh put two and two together and and figure it out. It was a lot like the Navy. Uh it was it was um I hired in with four other guys, and all five of us were from the U.S. Navy. Yeah. So the board hired a lot of people for the power plants back then from the military.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Right. Well, I mean, they know you're trainable, they know you have the basic understanding of what to do. They just got to show you their system. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And so what so what was your like when you initially started then at at the board, what what exactly were you doing?

SPEAKER_02 31:29

So I was uh an operator at Eckert, the Eckert Power Station. Yeah. Um the three stacks downtown here. Yep. I was an operator, fan room operator. Um it was hot, you know, up on the tenth floor. Um the fan room operator pretty much runs everything from floor two all the way to floor 10. Uh just taking readings, um, you know, bearing temps on fans, checking oil, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Okay. Yep. And then where'd you go from there?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Uh from there, uh I spent time on the burner deck, um, on the boiler fronts, actually controlling the the fire, the flame. Um, and then I moved out to the Erickson power plant out on Canal. Uh I was trying to I I had a goal of getting out of operations, um, getting off from I worked midnight shift. Yeah. Low seniority, right? I wanted to get off from midnights. I I wanted to get off from the weekend work. So I took a position out at our wise power or out at the uh um Erickson power station on canal. Um just as a janitor, uh helper, production, uh plant production helper. Um, and that was Monday through Friday, seven to three. Uh a little bit of a pay cut, um, but I was okay with that until I could find something different.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

So I worked out there for a while. Um, and then the BWL did a thing where they red circled your wage. This was in the early 90s. I was out there maybe for a year or two. Um they red circled the job, not the wage, I'm sorry. And we had two of us that were uh helpers out there, and they red circled one, and I had less seniority than the other guy, so they said, You're going back to Eckert as an operator. Um, they knew I didn't want to do that. Um and something that stuck out with me. So when I was at Erickson, uh my supervisor was Dick Peffley, who is now the general manager of the Board of Water and Light. Um great guy. And he knew I didn't want to go back into operations, but I also knew that if I wanted to have a job, that's where I was gonna go. So I went back and I'll never forget on a Saturday, maybe two or three weeks after I moved back, he showed up on a Saturday, just came in to see how I was doing. And I thought that was fantastic, and that's that stuck with me for a long time. Um so then so I worked as an operator there for a couple years, and then I transferred next door. A lot of people don't realize this, but the three stacks at Eckert, only the two, the middle one and the west one are for Eckert Power Station. The one on the east is for the Morris Park steam plant. Oh. So I went, I transferred out to the Morris Park steam plant, um, which was a pretty good raise uh because you moved from the lowest level where I was at in the D Shack over to control room. So I moved over, I worked in the control room over there. Um still on midnights for a couple years, afternoons for a year or two, but um I was there for about 12 years, and the last eight of it, I was on day shift, um, was the trainer, worked as a trainer for a while over there. Um, I love that plant. That plant was old, it was really cool, cool to operate. Um but I seen the writing on the wall, uh, they were gonna be closing that plant. So, and my wife said, Listen, now I had two young kids, right? Yeah, and she said, Listen, if you're gonna move, find someplace that uh again, you're not on weekends, you're not working every holiday, which is how I ended up in water where I'm at now. So Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Well, you know, I find the utility business like the rewards are great, like the pay is really good. Oh, 100%. But you put in the time, like correct. Yeah, it's hard work. It's not easy. No, not at all. Not at all. Especially on the operation side. Yeah. Yeah, I've spent of my 28 years, I probably spent 20 of them in operations, and it'll wear you out. It will for sure, especially those swing shifts and the night shifts and all that other stuff. So you mentioned your wife. Um, talk to me a little bit about your family.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, so uh my wife and I were friends for a number of years. We had a little group, kind of kind of a little group that hung out a lot, and um she was part of that group. Uh I was married at the time to somebody else. You know, she she was never married prior to me, but uh but we were just friends, right? We had a whole group that uh hung together. And um when when my first wife and I got divorced, it just felt like a natural, a natural thing. You know, we we kind of came together. She was single at the time I was, so uh we started dating. Uh we we got an apartment before long. Um we bought our first house together before we were even married. You know, we knew that we were gonna stay together. We bought our first house, um, had our kids. We actually got

Marriage Detour And Family Life

SPEAKER_02 36:35

married after my daughter was six months old when we got married. She's uh 27 now. Time flies. It does. Yeah. Um yes, we've been we've been married for quite a few years. We funny, you know, it's not a funny story, but uh we laugh about it now. Uh about three years in, we got divorced, and we were divorced for four or four or five years, and then we got remarried, and we've been we've been together ever since.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

But that's um that's not as uncommon as as I thought it was, especially in utility business. I don't know why, but a lot of my friends, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

She uh she's a wonderful person. Um well we had a couple kids, we built a brand new house. You know, she didn't have the greatest childhood, and she wasn't used to, she just wasn't used to, you know, she was like, I don't think I'm ever gonna have kids, you know, I don't want to bring them into this world the way, you know. And right um here I, you know, I come in and and I have a good job, and she had she had a good job. Um and we built this brand new house. And in this neighborhood where a lot of the women were stay-at-home moms, and um she didn't have much much time to spend with them, nor I don't think she wanted to. Right. Um yeah, so she she just said, you know, I woke up and we got I I have two kids and a white picket fence, and she kind of lost her mind a little bit, she says. Uh yeah, so we got divorced, but we remained very close. Um, our kids um never suffered because of it. She stayed, you know, we were blocks from each other. She bought her bought her own house, and um it really actually I think uh helped her become the mom that she is. Um not not saying she wasn't a good mom back then, but I think that the the fact that she growing up thought that she was never gonna have kids and now she had two was hard on her system a little bit. Um yeah, five years and we co-parented and we remained close and we ended up getting remarried, and my kids are very lucky to have her.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Well, congratulations on bringing that all back together. So you have two kids? Two kids, yep. Uh boy and a girl, or boy and a girl. Yeah, the girl's the oldest, Chloe, and my son's name is Jack. Yeah. Um both uh we lived out in Grand Ledge when we built the new house, and so we remained out in that area. They started school there, finished school there. Um, and then they both went on to my son or my daughter went first, Michigan State. Um, she was in the Lyman Briggs College at Michigan State, and she graduated, and then uh my son went to LCC for two years, um, and then he transferred to Michigan State. Uh my daughter graduated with a bachelor's in physiology, and my son graduated with a bachelor's in psychology. Um and now my daughter is in PA school at University of Detroit Mercy. Wow. Working part-time as an MA medical assistant in DeWitt at a family practice there. Um and my son uh interned in the mayor's office for the city of Lansing and now uh works for HR for the City of Lansing as a contracted employee. And uh he just had an interview last week with the Board of Water and Light to uh look at a job here. So Wow, that's fantastic. Both very good, very good people. Um yeah, I I can't say enough good things about my wife and my kids and how blessed I am with them.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

And vice versa. I think they're they're pretty think they're happy with you? I think so.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I don't know if I want my kids to learn psychology, though. I'm I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

He does, he knows how to use it against us a little bit. Sometimes he surprises me with some of the things he comes up with.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, I'll bet. I'll bet. So you've been married uh how long then, total, with uh with your wife?

SPEAKER_02 40:43

All total. Uh we got married in um 1999. Uh-huh. Um, so so 2029 would be 30 years. 30 years. Wow. Um we don't really we don't count the break anymore. Okay. Uh I remember when when we first got married. We got married on what would have been our 11-year anniversary. Uh-huh. And uh or no, our 10-year anniversary, I'm sorry. We got married and we got remarried in 2009. And my daughter looked at us and she said, Okay. In in 2010, on October 2nd, she looked at us and said, Is this one year or 11 years? And we both just looked at her and said, Yes. Indeed, it is. It's both. Uh but yeah, we we really don't count that time apart now.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

So yeah, yeah. Well, that's good. So yeah, all that time being married, 37 years at your at your job. Um sounds like a great family. Yep. Uh sounds like interesting. Growing up was was great. You've got good people around you. Uh, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you did want to talk about? Boy.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Um you know, I'll tell you, one of the one of the things that uh the military taught me was resilient, be resilient, right? And I talk to my kids about that all the time. Um and I have a story that a lot of people um at the BWA don't know because there's not many people that are still here from from when I first hired in.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Um so so when I hired in the board, uh I I wasn't again, I was kind of an underachiever. Um I was not of that great of an employee at the time. Um, I had a hard time. I struggled going from the military back to civilian life, even though it was a short four years, they really instill um, you know, being on time and everything is structured. And then it went to no structure, right? Um, and I struggled with that. So I was at the board here

Fired Then Rehired Through Resilience

SPEAKER_02 42:55

for about a year and a half, two years, and I got let go. Um, you know, my my wife at the time worked in the bar in the bar scene. Um so I would I would, you know, go with my buddies or whatever, and we'd go to the bar and sit, and you know, until one o'clock in the morning, I'd have to get up and go to work, you know. Uh and you know, not saying that was that much different from my time in the Navy, right? But my time in the Navy, I had somebody down there waking me up. Hey, it's time, you know, time to get up for watch or whatever to go to work. Yeah. Here I didn't. Um, and so I lost my job. And uh I had to, they told me, they said, you know, you're you're done. But we're gonna give you a year, and these are the the stipulations you got to meet, and then after that year we'll hire you back if you can meet those stipulations. And it was set up for me to fail. But I thought, not a chance. I'm gonna blow this, right? So I did everything they asked. Um, I got my job back, and even after I got my job back, I was on a two-year return to work probation. Um, and I'll never forget, I was on the BWL uh, they had a bowling league in the department I was working in at the time. We had a bowling team that was in that league. Um and we were at bowling, it was a Wednesday night. Uh, it was my last day of that two-year return to work agreement. And I remember the plant manager came to the bowling alley and shook my hand. By this time, I was an exemplary employee, right? There was no way I was messing this up. Um, he came to the bowling alley and shook my hand. He said, You're the first person to ever make it through that two-year return to work agreement. So uh, you know, and from there, um, you know, now I'm managing Lansing's water supply.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Who would have thought? Not me. I never would have thought that, but here I am. Yeah. Thank God for second chances. 100%. Yep. And I I think that uh the military is is what taught me to, you know, you gotta roll with the punches, but you gotta be resilient and you gotta earn your way because nobody's gonna do it for you.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Right. Right. Well, I think that's a great segue into really my final question for you today. And that is, you know, someone's gonna listen to this a hundred years from now. You and I won't be here unless they figure something out with modern medicine. But um, you know, what what would you like to leave people with? Like what piece of advice would you give to people who might be listening to this uh, you know, years from now?

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Um don't wait. Don't wait for again, you know, I talked about it just a minute ago. Don't wait for somebody else to hand you something. You need to go and earn it. Um, you need to be resilient, um, you need to be able to be proud of yourself, right? Uh you you gotta you gotta plow your own path because because nothing nothing's gonna be handed to you on a silver platter.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

That's true. Well, thanks for sharing that and uh thanks for meeting with me today. Absolutely, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.