Every Person’s Service Matters (Chuck Dodge)

A lot of people carry a quiet belief that their work “didn’t really count.” Chuck Dodge used to feel that way about his Air Force service, even after four years stationed at Dover Air Force Base, where he could look out and see caskets stacked in a warehouse during the Vietnam era. Then one sentence at a veterans conference cracked everything open: “Every person’s service matters.” That shift turns this conversation into something bigger than a military story. It becomes a roadmap for reclaiming meaning.

We talk with Chuck about growing up in foster homes, moving through multiple schools, and how one cruel line from a caretaker can echo for decades. He connects those early wounds to later patterns: quitting when he feels controlled, chasing new starts, and making painful choices in relationships. He also shares the people who pulled him forward, from teachers who saw potential to mentors who simply said, “You can do it,” and why reflection is not living in the past, it’s learning how your life actually fits together.

Chuck also gets practical about building a better future, especially through community. Toastmasters helps him find his voice, and today he’s focused on relationship-based business networking, mentoring, and encouraging veterans and everyday people to tell their story with clarity and pride. If you’ve ever minimized your own service, struggled with shame, or wondered how to turn hard chapters into purpose, this one will stay with you.

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more listeners can find these stories. What’s one moment that changed how you see your own life?

Transcript

Meeting Chuck Dodge

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today is Monday, June 29th, 2026. We're talking with Chuck Dodge, who served in the United States Air Force. So good afternoon, Chuck. Well, glad to be here, and it's an honor to be here with you, Bill. And uh, you know, we just met a couple days ago, and here we are recording your story. So things move quick in my world.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Providence or divine guide, whatever it is, I'm here. I'm glad to be here. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Serendipity.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

One of those words, anyway. So we'll get started. And the first question I always ask: when and where were you born?

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Owasso, Michigan, December 5th, 1948. Wow. I know. And lived in Owasso your whole life. No. Actually, I lived in Lansing here from uh about 82 through 90. And then I just traveled around and back to Owasso and then well during the 80s I had over 30 jobs. So I moved around a lot. I went to Missouri from mid-86 through 87. I worked for a company called Service Master. They were hiring advisors

Foster Homes And Family Loss

SPEAKER_01 1:04

to the GM plant in Wentzville, Missouri. And uh I never said I'd work in a factory, so never say never. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

You just don't know what's going to happen. Um so did you grow up though in Owasso? Is that where your family lived? And uh brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Uh two brothers, uh Larry um and Leroy. They've both passed on now. And Larry passed away in 2001, and Leroy during COVID, 2020, he had a lung cancer.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, all right. I'm sorry to hear that. And um so were you the oldest, the middle? Yeah. I was the oldest. The oldest. Okay. So you were in charge?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, we we grew up in foster homes. Okay. And uh for the first probably uh seven or eight years of my life, I we lived in Chessing. Uh-huh. Because my grandmother my one grandmother lived in Oakley, and another grandmother lived in Chesney, and she had a house, a duplex. So we was we were able to snag that. And then uh yeah, in and out of foster homes.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

And uh Did you stay together as brothers in the in and out of foster homes, or were you separated?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Both. Uh there was a time that we were both in. There was a place called Otter Lake. It was a boys' school, uh, I think near La Pierre in that area. And we were there together, and then maybe there was one other time, but normally we were split up. Uh and my other two brothers, they they didn't have the path that I had. And I always thought I had this notion that my grandmothers and my relatives favored me. Now that was just something I had because both the other brothers, uh Leroy, he was the youngest, born in 53. He alcohol and just didn't take care of his family and kids. And my brother Larry passed away in 2001, and he had spent 25 out of 50 years in and out of prison. Okay. So so they different path. Yeah. Different path.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

And uh how was it that you ended up in foster care, if you don't mind my asking?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

I now this may sound a little off, but I think my mother used a system to parent us. I really do. I I don't think uh and I don't know uh how my mother got her belief system. One time I asked my I asked my grandmother, her mother, I said, uh, grandma, what how Ma doesn't want to hold us or hug us because she never we never really had any contact conference. And then she told me this, and I didn't have a follow-up question. She said, uh, well, when your mother was younger, she never wanted to be held. Now the follow-up question was, did she not want to be held or did you not want to hold her? So it it it that's the that's my story, and uh and that that created a for me throughout my life uh different rate relationships. I w we can talk about that if you want to, but I had a 13-year marriage from 68 to 80, and Joanne was with me in the Air Force at that time. And then uh an eight-year relationship here in Lansing from about 81 to 89, and then another, another one and through the 90s, and and it just I couldn't uh the belief system was well, the person won't stay anyway, so that person will do something, or I'll do something, and and here we are.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

If something if something doesn't happen, you'll make it happen, right? I mean kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy at that point.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

And you don't e you unless you really want to stop and reflect, you just keep on going.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. So you so did you grow up in different schools then? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. All right. Was it were you changing schools at a pretty regular clip there?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, let's let's go through it. Chesting from about kindergarten till third or fourth, awasso, four, five, and six, corona in a foster home, seventh grade, middle school, then back to a wasso uh from eight through graduation.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah. So you were did you find yourself always trying to make new friends then? Or did you just not bother to make friends? Or what was that like for you as a kid? I mean, that's that's a lot of bouncing around.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

You know, that's a part I don't really remember. The only one thing I remember was in seventh grade we went to Kerenna, and they it was test time. And I go, what? I just got here. But as far as the friends, the friends really didn't come into play, I think, until eighth or ninth grade. Ninth grade it was a lot easier. But there's parts of my my childhood that I uh when I was moving around, I don't really remember. The people I lived with, except for one person uh um and uh I was 12, that was the corona experience. Josh and Eleanor Robbins. Josh was amazing. Eleanor, on the other hand, she she was a little hurt. I realize that now, so she hurt us as well with words. And one of the one day she told me that I'll I would never amount to anything. And you know, you internalize that and kind of take that with you. That was one of those phrases that probably it stayed with me for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, that's a tough one to hear as a kid.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah. So uh where did you graduate from then? Awasso. Okay. Now, did you play any sports? Do you have favorite topics? What was baseball. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Baseball in ninth grade. No, tenth grade. And then in uh I was gonna do baseball in eleventh grade, but I got a job. I was it was just co-op and and it it was just uh a fantastic path. And and I loved uh Latin. Latin in 1964, my my Latin teacher, Vera Self, here's one of those things that stays with you. She told me I could be a teacher.

School Moves And Defining Teachers

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Well, here's my story. I'm not smart enough. We're poor, I'm not going to college. So 30 years later, I I when I was doing some teaching, I I realized she was right. But in 1967, when I graduated, now remember I wasn't smart, right? Right. I graduated 111 out of 359. Yeah, exactly. But there was no one to tell me. Yeah, hey, you're smart. I went on my own mess on my own story.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Well, and somebody told you you'd never mount to anything, right? So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I I hadn't put I didn't connect that up, but you're right. And and but but she she was not totally right. Because when I went into the Air Force, I I was just thinking, I got three promotions. But then again, I heard Sergeant Jones. Dodge, you can do it. Dodge, you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

So let's talk about that. You graduate high school in 67, and what what happens next? I mean, you you're aging out of the foster system, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Well, I I was out of the foster care system probably by the eighth grade. And my mom was we we were with my mom and dad. My dad was I I'm not sure where he was all the time, but I was with my mom. Okay. So yeah, that I aged out then.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Okay. So so when you graduated high school, then you're living with your mom at this point. Yes. Okay. And so what happens next?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

I'm working, I'm working at uh Redmond's Motor Division in Owasu and data processing. And probably had been there, uh I don't think maybe maybe 66, and then in 77, well, 67, my boss, Ron Accles, had just gotten out of the Air Force. And that was that time, you know, we had the draft we had the draft going on, and I I probably had thoughts of, hey, I don't want to get drafted. I'm in talking with Ron, conversation led to, well, Chuck, why don't you uh why don't you go to the Air Force? So that was through his prompting.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

I went over in Flint and I think it was December 19th, uh, started the process, and and the MOS I got was a 68885, 68550 was the same in data processing that I was doing at at Redmonds. So it was just a slide over.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Right, why not? Yeah. Why not? So when did you sh when did you go to BASIC?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Uh February, 5 February of 68.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Okay. And talk to me about that experience. What was that like?

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Uh well I'll uh I'll tell you a little funny story here, and I think we can put it on here. So the first day we're there, we're we're led into the dorm, and Sergeant Killian was his name. And empty all your stuff out on your uh on your bunk. Well, I had had some uh my what my girlfriend at the time and her mother had they they were big on X-Lax. So I had I had some X-LAX in my pocket, and that landed on the bunk. And the TI came up to me right square, about that far from me, and said, Airman, you're not gonna need those because we're gonna kick the crap out of you. Well, he didn't use the word crap. And I thought, holy cow, what did I get myself into? It was it was new, and there were people that were attempting to get on a medical leave, and I just I persevered. There was and I made it. Yeah, but I um uh

Choosing The Air Force

SPEAKER_01 10:38

learned uh certainly discipline and things that I didn't realize until I, you know, started reflecting back on it and it's like, yeah, uh mentoring others and and just being a being a part of uh a community, if you will. Right. Just for a while. We gotta we gotta pull together here.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, you can't make it on your own.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

No, absolutely. And they they take the first five weeks, four and a half to five weeks to break you down, and then they ease up and you go, wow, it wasn't that bad at all. At at the other end of it, at the other side. So um glad to get out, glad to get out as a as as maybe a uh I was well, I was 20 at the time, that because I turned 19. I was 19 in December, and and then oh wait, no, and I I was still 19. So um yeah. And I look, am I looking back now? I'm glad it was it was one of the best unconscious decisions I've ever made.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

It happens sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

But you know, I I've read a lot, and uh Wolfgang von Goethe said, Life must be lived forward. But it only makes sense really when you look back on it. And there's a there's a tapestry that's woven. And and I've I've I'm really in touch with that now. I've found it. Um I've always been teaching. I've uh I've always enjoyed helping people. And now the hopefully the mission can certainly continue with with veterans because um I I don't know everything, but I want to help I want to help in whatever way I can. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Well, and I mean uh there's a difference between looking back and living in the past, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Oh, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

So that's uh I I think that's kind of the meaning there is like it's okay to look back and learn the lessons, but you can't live there. Yeah. Uh because there's only now. Yeah. Well it's only a memory anyway. Right. And it's your memory, and it might not even be accurate.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

It but you're right, you're right. We could reframe it if we wanted to, but I think just to take it for uh wow, I did that. Well then instead of judgment now, it's being curious and fascinated. Wow, I guess I didn't learn that lesson right away.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

But yeah. So you uh so you go to basic, you graduate basic training, you go to your uh technical school. I don't know what they call it in the Air Force.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Well, I didn't do tech school. I what I did was uh I just went uh I went right to Dover. Uh uh I I came home, it was around a let's see, it was about I'm thinking March 20 or 21.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

And I got married March 30th. And my boss, Ron, was my best man. Oh. So there's there's that there's that connection from him being that voice as, well, why don't you do this? And then and you know, it that's m immortality. And then I I left my family in in 1980. Uh I was uh uh working state of Michigan. I got a job there after I after I got home and uh computer operations supervisor, and and then uh one day a friend of mine came up to me and said, uh, Chuck, you have a nice personality. Why don't you come be a salesman? And it was with Wycloff Fundraising out of Vassar, uh fundraising company, going to schools. And well, I learned, Bill, that you need more and uh more than a good personality to be a salesman. Right. It helps. It's a lot of work. Well, it's it's a mindset. There's an employee mindset, there's an entrepreneurial mindset, and neither they're both okay. Right. And I had the employee mindset, and I failed miserably. And then after at I joined in August and then in December, well, November, December, I was just I I was ashamed. And I came home it was a couple days before my birthday in dis in 1980 and just left. I said, told my wife, I'm leaving, I moved out. I moved out. My son was six. So that began a trajectory of over thirty jobs during the eighties, and I mentioned the service master. So it's it was a it it was uh now I look back, it was it was a learning, it was a learning experience. Lost my family. Um but uh I now I'm looking for what was in that? What can I do? What what how can I use that? Because that was that was a decade.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Well, yeah, yeah. So let's think about how you got there. So when you got so you did what, like a two-year stint in the Air Force? Four. Four years in the Air Force. Um and then you got out and then you went to work for the state of Michigan?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

No, no, there was a there was a six-month uh uh uh job, a computer operator job prior to that.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

And then uh that was in I think it was around the beginning of the year, and then at the end of the year I I was able to uh join uh do the State of Michigan uh um social services downtown at the Lewis Cass building.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Aaron Ross Powell, so you were at Dover for all four years though? Yeah. Okay. And w when we talked um last week, you were taught saying how you could look out your office window and see the caskets stacked up. So let's talk let's well before we leave the Air Force experience, uh I because I think all these things build on each other. Um what what was your experience like in the Air Force for that four years and and how did that impact you?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, at that time we we knew that the bodies were coming back in caskets and because Dover was that key base. And and uh we could we could go out the the look go out into the warehouse and just see those those caskets stacked high. Now at that time, I'm thinking, wow, but it didn't have the it didn't really have the the impact that it has now when I think about wow uh the the sacrifice that all of those people um made because we're all standing on the shoulders of giants. And no matter who they were, they were giants. They were out there that part of history doing their thing. But as far as the work, I was really good at what I did, and I was fast and efficient, and what our job was to get those manifest together so that the planes could leave. Uh we had a cutoff time at 1900 hours. So then we were supposed to wait until all the cargo was either retrograde or or on the plane. And sometimes we could get done early and and we were we were fast moving and then and then created the manifest and and so that the um the captain or the pilots would know what what cargo they had. And and and I shared with you that for a long time I was just an office guy. My service didn't really matter. And then um I went to that veteran veterans conference in Grand Rapids, and there was a dean of the college speaking, and I only remember one sentence every person's service matters. And it brought a tear to my eye. It touched my heart because every we provide, you know, there are mechanics that do their job, there are pilots that do their job, and there's office personnel that do their job. And we all have a job to do, uh it matters. If there's anyone out uh out of it, it doesn't go.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

And in that and now I didn't do much with I uh the experience you can tell it, I remember it. But you know, times we still kept on still kept on going on, and I went in in Flint there was uh a fellow named Ed Ronders, uh I d he was probably former military, and he created an organization called Vet Biz Central. And I think I connected up with Ed in 2005, don't remember how, but he had Veterans Networking. And then I think that was once a month, and then he there was a month an annual summit someplace. And I I did a few of those, and and they were it was just, you know, the vets uh there was different resources coming to the table, and they were educating us on that, and it was they were really uh they were really inspiring. And uh so that's the the service was I look at it now and and I wish I would have, I wish I would have. No regrets, but I wish I would have paid a little more attention. But then again, my that consciousness was I I need to just get in and get out, and and uh but I learned to put my fatigues all in a row and shine my shoes and keep my my locker uh fold your socks just so here's a funny story. We're on a PC field and we're on our backs, and the there's a a platform up there. That's where the T the sergeants are watching us, and and one of them says, Hey, hey, there's a guy out there with some jewelry on. Well, you're supposed to have jewelry on. And I go, I wonder who that is. It was me. So he TI comes over to me and says, Hey, airman, you got one minute and some seconds to get that back into the dorm and into your locker. No way I could have done it. So I take off running. I get to the dorm, dorm guard lets me in. I put the watch in my foot locker, and I get back. I'm running both both ways. And he knew I he knew I wouldn't make it. He said, You gave it to the dorm guard, didn't

Basic Training Stories And Discipline

SPEAKER_01 20:28

you? No, I put it in my locker. He get back down, give me some more push-ups or whatever it was. So but that was uh that was one of those situations where they they just almost tease you. Uh-huh. But it was I made it.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah. They give you a task that you know they know you're not gonna be able to complete for sure. Exactly. Yeah. Now, did your family did your wife accompany you to Dover?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yes. She was with me in Dover, and uh Yeah, that was uh and uh and I don't remember, I know she had different jobs, but I I don't remember a lot of you know what we did um together. Uh uh. But yeah, she was there with me and it was uh uh and I as a matter of fact, I have a picture of uh in my when I was sergeant, uh we've got a a nice photo uh taken together.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Oh very nice. Yeah. Yeah. Now how did you meet your wife? Um I know we're going back a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

No, no, back uh eighth grade, ninth grade, she was she was she lived one block uh north of me. Uh huh. I lived on a street called Cast Street, she lived on Genesee Street, and and uh we um grown we we became to like each other and and it just here we are. Yeah, yeah, those things happen, right? Yeah, well yeah. And she was uh she was uh a wonderful person. And again, I didn't I didn't really appreciate that because uh my mind uh you know the mindset, it you you've it just shifts. Now I look back and go, wow, what what a what a great wife she was.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Right. What you thought you wanted, maybe not wasn't necessarily what you wanted or needed, but that's where you were at at the time.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah, yeah. I I'll give you a story. Um when I worked in Lansing here, I I'd come home and uh sometimes I'd go out drinking before I even come home. And I thought I was getting away with something, but uh I wasn't. And then she she ended up getting dementia. And 2011 she was into a uh Duran, the uh convalescent center. Yeah. And I had heard Wayne Dyer, the speaker, apologize to his wife in public or in an audience. Wayne was one of my uh great spiritual teachers to me, and he said, he said to his wife, uh, you were a better wife to me than I was a husband to you. So I told Joanne that. And almost immediately she said, Yeah, while you were out drinking, I told Jason you were working. It was like, oh, she said I had forgiven you years ago. So that that it was like it was like that that was one of the, you know, of all the things I've said people said that that was a moment. I gotta put that into my uh in my story as well. It was just, yeah. And then when she was when she was dying, I I had a chance to sit with her in uh it was September. Uh she passed away on September 8th, at the about August 25th. She had she was she lived for two weeks, and I sat with her every day for just a little bit, maybe a half hour or so, because I just felt like I wanted to. It was so this it was the best way I could honor her. And then three days before she passed, she was in Durand, and I I said, Joanne, because she couldn't talk, but she could hear. I said, give me a smile if you can hear me. And she gave me a smile. That was it. So and then she passed on, and then uh uh yeah, just a a great person. Yeah. And and and not realizing that she was a great person, and I wasn't the person to t to help her be a great person or bring it out of her because I I had my own path, and and so she and she had her path as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

But uh so let's uh let's go back then a little bit. You uh you do your time in the Air Force, you get out. Um did you come you so you came right back to Michigan after the after the Air Force? Yes, yeah. Okay. So after four years of of being in uniform and doing that job, uh did you have feelings either way about that last time that you put your uniform on and you knew that you weren't done.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Glad. Yeah. Because again, uh 19-year-old punk, and it didn't change my my I I also had a part-time job after work. I worked at Kent General Hospital in Dover. I did data processing. We processed outpatient billing. Um you know there's um I met a lot of uh nice people to work with, but as far as I think it was just all right, uh I'm oh they had early outs, and certainly I think I got out out three years, ten months, and three days. So you can see that my my mindset was just to get out and get away, because uh one thing I didn't really care for was the regimentation. I I accepted it and I did it, and I never knew how why until many years later I started study studying uh Henry David Thoreau, and he had a quote that said, if a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears the beat of a different drummer. I was hearing the beat of a different drummer, had no clue what that was. It's like when I went to LCC, I also there in early 72, there was a quote on the wall by Socrates. The unexamined life is not worth living. Not not total, but when you start to examine your life, it it pulls out more worth. And that's what I've been doing probably for decades now. Uh a

Dover AFB And The Cost Of War

SPEAKER_01 26:56

voracious reader, didn't always use what I read. But yeah, I'm I'm now I'm I'm doing some work on the brain and how the brain and the mind and the subconscious work together. But um, yeah, it so I'd like to say I was proud. I'm proud now, without a doubt. I'm I'm proud, proud now more than I've ever been, but uh um because when that dean said your service mattered, I started a new mindset to go, all right, what else was there? We had a we we worked with s civilians also. Kenny Cooper was a an amazing uh supervisor. I mean he was just do anything for you. Um same as when I got my job in on co-op in with Ron Accles, Bob Hodge, just a lovely man. He very patient teaching. So I've really had fantastic mentors.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

At the time, oh that's nice. Now I go back and I complete gratitude. It's like Angels Among Us. Angels among us, and I I know that I can help other people do the excavation on their life in a nice way to go back and look. You you gotta have the courage to look. Yeah, if it didn't work out well, bite the bullet and go into it anyway. Be vulnerable because vulnerability leads to courage. You don't have to hide it, and and and it'll help you move forward. Right. Oh, it's like wow, so here I'm at, 77 in the fourth quarter.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Right, right. So we've got a couple quarters to look at, though. We're gonna examine examine that life. So um so you get out of the Air Force. We talked a little about where he worked for about six months doing data processing, and then you went to work for the state of Michigan. And how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 29:02

That's a good question. I I'm thinking, did someone suggest that I go there? Uh uh I somewhat remember the the interview. Uh-huh. But I don't really know the details of how I even may maybe it could have been from uh maybe LCC, a connection there that said, well, what why don't you apply over here?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Well if you think about if you think about the time that you were in data processing too, this is this was when this was the beginning of data processing, correct? Computers, yes, in the 60s. Yeah. So you were you went to work for the State of Michigan in the early 70s. So you so from 72 to 1980? Yeah. You worked there. So you probably saw a lot of change in how those systems worked. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Well, uh yeah, there was there was change. Uh being being in operations, it was more it was more the the data systems analyst, the analyst would see the more of the change in like software and programs. But yeah, that we went, we had some UNIVAC and then uh I think we went to I don't know if we went to IBM at the at Lewis Cass building, but there was yeah, there was there was change and uh yeah, it was so what was your job there then? What what what was it what what did you do in the Trevor Burrus, usually processing um we processed we processed welfare checks and child care checks, mostly. And and then of course there was uh you know I mean if there's other special projects then we we would we would do those. But that was our that was the social service part of uh the the digital or the computer part of that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

And and so you the operations that you the operational area that you were in process that was the the um machinery and and uh computers that process those payments. Yeah. Okay. So you're doing this for eight years roughly. Yeah. And so you you talked about it before, but I want to talk about a little bit more. Okay. What happened that you're just like, ah, screw it, I'm quitting this job and I'm gonna go to work for this other company. Okay. What was the catalyst for that?

SPEAKER_01 31:16

The catalyst was about there was I was with the state for eight years. Yeah. Six was in computer operations, and I I worked again, not don't want to be told what to do. I was working for a person, his name is Bill. Not me. Not you. So and and I was in a I was in what was called a research, operations research group. So we worked on special projects for Bill. And one day he came up to me and he said, Um, how's that project going? I said, Well, uh you know, I'm thinking about what I need to do here. And he said, You leave the thinking to me. And walked away. It took me three days to go up and go in to tell him how how that impacted me. And he didn't even remember. So I understand that because I do personality styles and and that's called debehavior. They they do things and they don't they they don't remember. Right. But it it impacted me. So I said, I'm getting out of here. So for the next two years of that that eight-year stint, I was I was able to transfer to being a data systems analyst, of which I wasn't really qualified to do, but I was able to do enough enough to keep the job. But the part was I didn't feel competent at it. And there wasn't anybody there to mentor me. Not that I would have received it anyway. Right. You we all have these these inner nudgings, and then along the way, my friend Randy came along and said, Well, you know, you would be you could do fundraising. So that's what it was. Not being appreciated, not and that that um that that moment, and then I'm out of here. Again, uh I'm

Coming Home And State Data Processing

SPEAKER_01 33:10

getting out of here. Kind of a theme. Yeah, well, there is a theme. There's a theme of avoidance. Right. You know, I'm avoiding the draft. Uh it's not a it's not the best way to make decisions because usually if you make decisions out of avoidance, there's a good chance you're gonna need to redo it.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Again and again.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

So then I um uh on it was July twenty fifth, I believe, that I I left there and then uh um and then it created this trajectory of many, many jobs and so you did so you did this you did this fundraising job for about six months then, basically.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

More more like well, actually three months. Oh yeah. And then uh I worked for Berman Marshall in town here on the south side, some over on uh uh uh wherever over there. It was the again, computer operator. I knew that was what I went went back to. Yeah. And and then I uh I I got laid off from there to not return back to work. So so then I went back to the fundraising company because I uh I owed them, I don't know, five, six, seven thousand dollars. Now Randy's gone, and he's got this territory here in Lansing and Grand Ledge and some some big schools. So I now I can I can make some commissions and then and then pay off Jim Wyckoff, and that's what I did. And uh so I did go back and and take care of that.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

And so when all was said and done there, is this right around the same time that you left your wife?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

You decided to Well that was eight in eighty is when I left my wife, and then I I was living in Lansing here. Uh-huh. And uh it was it was a relationship that was kind of like off and on, off and on. Uh again, not really knowing what to do. I didn't have really good decision-making skills. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Well, you I'm gonna ask a really hard question. Go ahead. So you know, at some point you decided I'm done with this marriage, right? I don't know if that took if that was over a period of time or if it just was like fine just hit you. But what what what was it like for you? I'm pretty sure I know what it was like for her, but what was it like for you when you just walked in and said I'm done and then left? Yeah. How'd that make you feel? Like what was that?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Oh, i it it was uh uh remember I got I got the some shame going on because I wasn't making the money I needed also, and right and then uh the the business itself, uh I I wasn't making any sales, and of course that leads to the money, and I thought uh I just I gotta leave. I gotta leave. There's uh and I don't I don't remember any any other there were probably some discussions that went on back here to to get to that, but I don't re I don't remember those. I just remember my response was I'm just not making it. I I don't feel good about myself. It's probably the similar feeling that I felt when I left the state because I felt incompetent there because and the irony is I had eight years with the state. Uh two more years and I could have got some retirement. But I thought, man, if I hang around this two more years, I I might be dead. I'm gonna jump off the building. Yeah. So I uh so I just I I left. I left the job, and then I end up leaving my wife, and um, and then it's moving through all these different jobs and and uh oh what telling the story, I I I couldn't even picture doing it now. It's like it takes a lot of effort. But I one thing I I do I didn't know how to get jobs and and I could continue that process. And and uh one of my best jobs was in Owaso in 1988. I worked for uh um there's a fire extinguisher company here in uh Lansing, Deluxe Fire and Safety. I don't know if he's still here.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, John Coriel. He hired he had a uh Deluxe Fire and Safety in Owaso for three months. I uh I managed that office. I love the fire extinguisher business. I love teaching people, teaching people how to use the fire extinguisher, because I realized many people don't know how to use them. I didn't. Right. And one day John came in, uh we were in Birch Run and one of the uh stores up there, one of the Falzgraf or one of the uh stores that sold glassware, I couldn't get the extinguisher refilled. So I just gave him a uh a new one. He he gave me, he he just was all over me. Why'd you give him a new one? Well, that was the right thing to do. So I could see where we were going to uh we were gonna have some issues. And in November, it was either I quit or he fired me. I I and I quit. Now that was I left out of principle versus anything else because um I I I I loved it. I um it was one of the best jobs I've had as far as the the fire extinguishers and and that and educating people around that because if you you can go in any store and and see fire extinguishers, there's there may be pins in them or not, or they may have coats on them and they may be sitting on the floor. They're they're all over the place. The people don't take fire extinguishers seriously.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Uh anyway, that was that was fun. So the 80s you said over 30 different jobs. Yeah. That's we're not gonna list them all here. I don't think we have to say that. No, no, no. But but that's a lot of different jobs. That's a lot of movement. Um did you end up somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Back in Owasso nothing, not nothing that was permanent. Oh, let's see. Uh got getting through the 90s. Uh I did work at Radio Shack on the South Side for for a few weeks. Uh-huh. And then I moved back to Owasso. And uh I got a job at Myers part-time in October of '93 through May of um 94. And then I started I I got I wanted to put some uh community workshops together. So I did that for I did, I think I did three of those, one in Durand, one in Chessing, and one in Owasso. It was just a four-week course. I just put some stuff together. At the time, Forrest Gump movie was out, the Lion King. So I was telling stories around those uh because Lion King for me is a very spiritual movie, and and so I was and then I had some other things I had put together and just made stuff up and it it it was something that that I uh uh I enjoyed doing. Uh I wasn't really good at it, but I made a few bucks. You're having fun and you made a few dollars, right? Huh? You were having fun and you made a few years. Oh absolutely. Just uh and then in 95, September of 95, I joined Toastmasters, and that that literally uh uh it just changed my life totally.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

So now I can not only help anybody with their story, but to tell their story, to find their voice, their entrepreneurial voice. Right. It's it's a simple process. Again, you've got we just gotta be willing to speak up.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

It's it's a skill that I have. So how did you I I'm just curious, how did you get into doing these like community programs?

SPEAKER_01 40:55

I just went to the the there was an office where the person that was in charge of it and said, Hey, I just want to do this. They're like, okay. Yeah. And they they um they helped me set it up. It was I think one was two or three weeks, one was four weeks. And uh I just went there and and and did it.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah. That's pretty awesome. I mean, a

Quitting, Shame, Divorce, And Job Hopping

SPEAKER_00 41:20

lot of people wouldn't wouldn't do that. I mean, right? That's putting yourself out there, really.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

It is, it is, and I and I didn't have when I had it when I did my four weeks, I didn't have four weeks all done. I had one week done. Right. But and then excuse me, one week led into the next week. And yeah, it was it was truly fun. And and now we're gonna do it on a uh grander scale. Because I've done I've done some um uh I've had some really good speaking engagements, but not consistency.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Right. So is that what you're working on as like a consistent Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

One of them, I'll give you an example. I'm I'm a member of um the Trade Network. Uh it's here in Lansing and also it's a barter group, barter organization, and and Grand Rapids. And the owner, Evan Kay, got me to be the keynote speaker at the Nate Convention, which is the National Association of Trade Exchanges, in May of 17, 2017. So I was able to speak, made $2,000 just for the couple days I was there, and they paid my expenses. So yeah, that but you go to your you go to your default, which is well, okay, I did that one. Do I deserve two? All right, yeah. Yeah, yes, I and the answer to that is now, yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yes, okay, all right, yeah, yeah so you um you kind of honed your skills through the 90s then, um doing like presentations and public speaking and that kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. And then um, so what are you doing now? At the young age of 77. Because that's 77 is the new the new 50, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Well, uh in the process of uh creating uh speaking age, but here I'm talking with you, Bill. This is this is gonna be a a uh a turning point for me as well. And that and I'm doing I got my legal shield business that I'm doing, and I want to help I want to help get that uh build that up to where I can have recurring income and train and educate people and and and help them get to where they want to go. Um and I'm in in Owasso now, I'm building a Toastmasters Club. We meet at the Big Boy every Tuesday, Tuesdays at noon at the Big Boy, and also I'm creating a business alliance there where business owners we come together and we talk about our business so that we can over time get into referral thinking and use that as the way to increase our business. And it's through relationship. Relationships, not just here's my card, call me if you need me. No, here's my here's my card, this is what I do, and every week come back for the people that really can buy into this, tell their story just a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

So that when we're out, we might hear something that someone needs. Oh, yeah, so and so does this, but even have a conversation. You might hear, oh, wow, okay, I I I know a person that can do that. So that that's I've been working on that. We've got about 15, 16 members, and about eight show up every week. Um and I wanted to get that to 30. But a lot of people don't they they might come one time but or two times. But you got you gotta be there every week to show us and show yourself. The the referrals go it goes deep on the relationship, not just horizontal. So that's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Well, less transactional, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where we run into problems with business, is in being transactional. Like if I'm gonna go to your meeting, what am I getting out of it? Well, you might not get anything, but you might make a relationship with someone who who can who you can help later on or who can help you, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:23

It's limited thinking. If you don't think you would get anything out of a meeting, you've got to go with the idea. And I I we set it up. It's a relationship ecosystem, is what it is. Uh-huh. And I uh we had uh we got the mission statement, we got got it all set up, and I haven't I haven't um articulated that lately, but I think I need maybe need to do that. I do some I do some personal development at the beginning of every meeting. I would always ask, what what was go around the room and say 30 seconds, what was your win last week? What are you grateful for? What pick something that that you some positive outlook. Right. And then and then uh as we go after we get done with that, I might do something on a uh who's who learned something last week that you want to share with us? So we we've got a s we've got people that can give us their um lessons and we just show up and and uh whether we're reading books or podcasts or whatever it is we're doing to change our our this fixed mindset sometimes to a growth mindset. That's real that's really where we want to be. And then then over time, uh over time see the average thinking person knows 250 people. And if you walk around thinking that, and and you every person you meet, and if you if they buy your service or product to do business with you, how many of those 250 do you want to know? That's a minimum.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

That's a minimum. Most people know hundreds, maybe even thousands. So just work that rather than throw a whole bunch out there and hope something lands. That that was that's my that's my vision and my goal. And I've and uh there's a friend I work with, he's also on legal shield of women, he does the business side of it, so he's teaching me. Um Barry and uh so we work together, and we're not even we don't even financially we don't benefit each other, but we we collaborate. Right. Because I can give him I uh um things that that that he can't get from any place but me and vice versa. It's it's just a it it's just a fantastic situation. So you're enjoying it? Oh yes, yes, yes. And the the other thing is when when we end a meeting, uh I say, hey, did did everybody get something out of this? Because uh going back to Henry David Thoreau, he said the cost of a thing is the amount of life you give up for it. So I want all of you to leave here knowing that you traded an hour of your life, you don't get that back, right, for what what we delivered. And the next thing is if you didn't, then maybe you need to show up bigger. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Right. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um I did want to ask another question, and that is um this kind of goes back to relationships. Your son was six years old when you left home. Have you do you maintain a relationship with him? Do you or did that just sort of end when you left?

SPEAKER_01 48:40

No, as a matter of fact, in 84 and 85, I coached his little league team in Owasso. It was VFW, 9455 was my sponsor. We were the best little league team. We had the midgets and the minors. 84, we won a great victory, great win. It was it really was. And the 80 85 was good, but it wasn't as good, it it wasn't the same as the first year.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

And that

Workshops, Toastmasters, And Finding Voice

SPEAKER_01 49:10

probably uh it really kept me going. It kept me youthful because uh, you know, they say if you would uh if you want to be young, be around young people. If you want to be old, be around old people. In in mind, okay. There are some, and I'm gonna I'm gonna turn some of those people around. But and then uh uh then I in in 86, that's when I moved to Missouri for a year and a half, and I and I we kept in touch, and he ended up moving to uh in in '93, we actually did work together for the summer. We did some painting together. So um, and we I was doing some reading and he was picking up Tony Robbins and Wayne Dyer, and we were so we we um we did some things together, and then uh um he live he moved to Chicago. I saw him a little bit, um let's see, from 01 to I'm trying to think of it it was uh it was kind of a strange, it was an a strange relationship during the maybe the early 2000s and um but recently uh you know I of course when when his mom passed away in in uh 20 21, September 8th, uh you know he I saw him on on I s I didn't see him until her her burial on the 10th and then um at the end of the year I went to Sedona, he lives in Arizona, I went there and then in in 22 I think I saw him once and then twenty-three I saw him twice. But um there's I gotta open up that door because I'm I'm thinking I'm thinking he doesn't respect me. And I need to ask him that question.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

And and I I'll ask him and then I'll get back with you. Because financially he's he's way off the hook. I mean, I don't know if he's a millionaire or whatever he is, okay? He's got huge house. He got a million-dollar house in Arizona, and I'm looking for a uh uh a small apartment here in Kerr. Right. But but you know it that it's not what you have. I mean I'm I'm I want I want something bigger, but it really is not what you have. It's who you are and who you become. And all these things that I've shared with you, oh my goodness. I I don't uh I wouldn't trade any of them for sitting here across from you telling my story. I just wouldn't, because it would change everything.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Right. Well you can't lament the decisions you made, good or bad, right? Because you don't have none of us has the benefit of knowing what would have happened. Right? If I hadn't left my job or if I hadn't walked walked away from my family, yeah, if I hadn't done this job, you don't know. Because you don't there's no way to know. You only know what happened as a result of the decisions you made. And you can kick yourself for it, but it's not gonna be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah. I think one of the best things that we can do is learn to love ourselves in spite of anything. That's I think that's why we're here. To to love who we are and not what we do necessarily. I'm not that's I'm not condoning any of that. I'll give I'll just give you another story. I was in a relationship and we got and my aunt actually signed on our mortgage. And and just to show you how what kind of stuff you can create, uh I thought I I had this financial block. Didn't let it come in. I actually lost my aunt's house. We defaulted on the house that we bought, and I lost my aunt's house. I'll tell you, when I sat in that in the in front of the judge and and sitting in that pew, and he said you gotta move out, I could have just it could have just zeroed, let me through, let let the let me fall through. It was it was one of the most humiliating things that's ever happened to me. And on the other side, we were able to move into an apartment uh at the same place I'm looking at for myself, and it was it was there, we were there a year, and then Jason called me and said, Hey Dad, do you and Aunt Marion want to live in mom's house? So yes, so I was really gifted uh with this house until until I met Cindy. Um and she helped me in tw I met her in November 2022 and then 23 we um Jason ended up selling the house. So so there's yeah, that was ooh, that was a that was a toughie. And and and Jason really, really nailed me to the wall on that one. I get that. I I really do. Uh but I can't undo it. Right. So so we we do need a we need a conversation, and I need to tell him about my my Air Force service. Because he doesn't know. Right. Like I didn't know about my dad's service. And we've got a whoever's listening to this, if you've got if you're in the service and your parents or relatives have been in the service, ask them what it was about. Let them let them tell you the story, and then think back of what it meant for you, regardless of what state of mind you were in when you entered, because that was a time when a lot of people I didn't think about that. I was only thinking about me. Out of no, I don't I don't do the draft. There's probably thousands of young people go, hey, I'm getting a draft, I'm gonna get this thing over with, because I know I'm gonna do it. But there's so much more in it, but you gotta look because you're we're different now. We're our mindset is I'm I'm ready to I'm ready to see what I've I've learned. And the um because I didn't think my service mattered, and as I went to Amplified Insight, it said that's your message. Develop that because you really need to tell other people that their service mattered also.

Building Community And Relationship-Based Business

SPEAKER_01 55:48

So that's the that probably will be the title of the book. And there's maybe a subtitle that goes with Every Person's Service Matters.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Well, we've covered a lot in the last hour or so, but is there anything that we haven't talked about that we have to do?

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Let me take a look at my yellow pad here. Yeah. Take a look at your notes there. Redmond celebrate- uh we we must really, really celebrate our wisdom. And the only way to do that is reflection. We we've got to stop. And and I'll have a program together, program or questions. It's about questions and the willingness to say, how has my life mattered? Not did it matter, uh-uh, how has it mattered? And who who was there to help me that I might have not remembered? Angels Among Us. There's always always somebody to help. And my dad, I just realized that he was, I just found out in his obituary that he was a member of the VFW, a lifetime member and disabled veterans. I didn't, I don't know what his disability was. I didn't ask him. I didn't think to ask him. So now old people like me can go back and teach you young people, ask. A quick story at school. I'm teaching um substitute teaching. I was always Mr. Dodge, the guest teacher. I didn't like the word sub. So I'm before that, before I did the assignment, this was uh a couple years ago, I would do some motivational things to the kids, you know, power of your language or power of thinking. And one morning this young lady said to me, Mr. Dodge, how come you're so smart? You know, I'm silently I'm just glowing on the inside. And I said, Well, first of all, uh I'm 76, I was much younger than I am now. And and I've got a lot of lessons. And she said this to me, Bill, because my grandpa does not talk or act like you. Wow. That that that was one of those moments. Okay, I'm gonna do something about this. I realize I've I've been blessed with a lot of energy. However, I got it, I've got a Okay, thank you, God, for the spirit and this ability to have high energy. And so I went back to where she was sitting at the end of the class, and I said, Well, just just well, I I actually I said, um get with grandpa as soon as you can and ask him some questions about his life. And if grandma's still here, ask her, ask him how they met. And then, because in that moment I realized that our young people aren't I was one of them. They're not talking to their elders, not finding out, did they go to the service, did they do this, what happened. And so I went back to her after towards the end of class, and you know, they all had phones. So she's she went to chat and she didn't know what questions asked, so she typed in, I think, some questions that she could ask grandpa. And I got a whole series of questions that that I can give people to help them get that information out. And I don't know. I I hope to see her someday and she that she'll say, Mr. Dodge, thank you, because I talked to my grandpa or I talked to my aunt or uncle. I talked to my parents. So let me see if I get I'll go. I'll do one. I I got rid of the let's see. We talked about that. You'll never amount to anything. Dodger can do it. Um let's see. Oh, mentors and teachers uh along the way. Leo Biscalia. Um, Amway. I was in Amway for a while when I first started, seven in 1979. That's when I discovered Dennis Whaitely. Dennis Whaitley, psychology of winning, one of the best motivational speakers around. He passed away about a year ago. Um my mantra when I when I coached my little league team was always have fun and improve. I felt like I'm John Wooden. He never focused on winning. Right. Have fun and improve. And I'm I'm bringing that back to me now. Have fun and improve. Uh yourself, you were a teacher. I've had two stints of subso teaching, one in 2001, there we go, to 2003. Oh, I love the work. Didn't pay enough. All right. At least I didn't think it did, but it gave me it gave me a lot. And then Toastmasters. And then when I came into Toastmasters in 1995, they had a four-year goal of to getting distinguished Toastmaster. And I achieved it. And I opened the door for others to do the same thing. It's like I felt like I was Roger Bannister and running a four-minute mile. When you do something, then somebody goes, Oh, I can do that. Right. So I I think we've uh I think we uh And to let everybody know they make a difference. Yeah. They do. They make a difference, and uh uh whatever's going on, your life matters. And if I can add anything to it, just let me know. Chuck Dodge Mr. Enthusiasm, also known as the connector now.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Nice. Nice. Well I think you answered my my final question was going to be what advice do you have for people? But it sounds like Be here now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

There's so many things. Um give up all that you think you are for all that you could become. Now that's a loaded thing. Um find someone who sees greatness in you. Uh uh in 94, when I uh when I uh when I was leaving Myers, I went to 10 people and I said, I'm applying for a job. I d I wasn't. I was just looking for endorsements. And I asked ten people of different age ages and people that would you write me a recommendation? You would you wouldn't believe the stuff that people wrote about me was phenomenal. I I still have those. So ask

Father-Son Distance And Closing Wisdom

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

other people what they think about you. Don't ask the people that don't like you. But ask people, get some feedback, start to create a a portfolio of your personal greatness. Yeah, it there's a there's a lot of things, but love yourself and and set some new goals. And then find a community that can help you um and and support and encourage you. So there's there's I'll I'll put it in the book. All right. Well, we'll look forward to that. Yeah, I uh that's why that's where I'm gonna spend the next year. I'm gonna be writing and speaking and and I want to do some work with Doug as well. Uh uh he's got some goals, and I think we can he's got a different agenda, and I think together we can do well.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Well, good. Well, I appreciate you taking time this afternoon to sit and talk with me. Uh it was a pleasure learning about your life and your experience. And uh thank you so much, Chuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

Well, thank you, Bill, for being there for just about one hour. No, it we could meet, and here we are. So there was Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Imagine that. Yeah.