31. Shattering Expectations: Identity and Body Positivity with Cherie Miller

Cherie Miller's story of courage rising from the ashes of an emotionally abusive marriage. We dive into the essence of reinvention and the hurdles faced when stepping into one's full potential. We discuss body shame, self-love, the liberation of self-empowerment, and the toxic cultural norms that bind women in a shared struggle with negative body image and eating disorders. Cherie's insights into her body image course creation underscore the value of community and support, making this episode a rallying cry for self-acceptance and the courage to embrace the unpredictable journey of life.

Connect with Cherie
www.nourishedsoulcenter.com
IG @foodfreedomtherapist

Connect with Heidi
Work with Heidi
IG @realheidisawyer

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Transcript

Heidi: 0:33

I'm excited to bring you this conversation with Cherie Miller today. Something that she said in the interview was that sharing our vulnerable moments is what helps other people to connect to us and realize that they're not alone. And I want to tell you that Cherie shares something about her past in the beginning of this interview that she has never shared publicly, and I feel that it's such an honor to create a safe space for her to do so, and I hope that you get tremendous value out of what she has to share today. A couple of questions to consider as you listen to our conversation. Is there a story in your own life that, if you had the courage to share, it could impact someone else in a positive way and could help others to not feel alone in their own experience? Also, consider your relationship with food and your body. As you listen to Cherie share her own experience and the work that she does with women today. Hope you enjoy, cherie. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.

Cherie: 1:30

Hi, heidi. Thank you so much for having me on. I feel truly honored. I love your podcast, and so I'm very happy to be on here today.

Heidi: 1:37

Awesome. Thank you. Share with everybody a little bit about you before we dive in.

Cherie: 1:42

Oh sure. So my name is Cherie Miller and I live in Texas with my husband and my two crazy kids and our crazy dog and our crazy cat. It is chaos over here. Love it some days, still overwhelmed, other days. I am a therapist so I do professional counseling. I own a group practice, so now I have staff that work under me. Part of the overwhelm, but also love it. And, yeah, I go to church and I love to be outside. Lots of things, lots of things about me. But, like I said, I'm excited to have this conversation and talk about what your readers, your listeners, will have in common with me.

Heidi: 2:25

Well, you know, this show is all about reinvention. I'd love for you to take us to a moment in your life where you had kind of that turning point or that awakening and you realized something needs to change in my life.

Cherie: 2:37

For sure.

Cherie: 2:37

So I was in a really, really dark place and to the point of not really wanting to be here anymore, and that's, I know, a really sensitive thing to talk about, and hopefully this is not super triggering for anybody.

Cherie: 2:51

But, like we were saying before, I feel like sharing our vulnerable moments is what other people can connect to, and hopefully other people will realize they're not alone when they feel that way I being a religious person. There's also this like added layer of, I think, stigma and shame around these conversations of depression or thoughts of suicide, things like that. So I love pushing past that stigma and really having honest conversations about how these are very normal and common things that we feel and there is hope. And so when I came to a point where I knew something had to change, because I was afraid it was going to get to a place of no return, that was when I was like all right, something's got to change. I needed to take the power in my life that I didn't think I had for the longest time and start taking control and making some different decisions.

Heidi: 3:45

Tell me a little more about what was going on in your life at that time. Why did you feel like you didn't have power?

Cherie: 3:51

Well, I was in a marriage for eight years relationship for 10 years that was abusive and I discovered towards the end he had a personality disorder and I just was very, very depressed and felt very trapped again because of a lot of my religious upbringing and things that friends and church members and church leadership said. I really felt like I didn't have any options but to stay in the marriage and I really really tried my best to make it work. I felt like that was what I was you know, quote unquote supposed to do, even if it came at my own expense. And so just the misery of being in a relationship with somebody who is somewhat physically but emotionally abusive for sure, and especially since those are wounds that nobody can see and so you know that just adds to the feeling of loneliness and isolation, because you know people understand a black eye but they don't necessarily understand. You know the bruises to your soul and the wounding that comes from harsh words and you know toxic language and all that stuff that comes with emotional abuse.

Heidi: 5:02

Yeah, when was the moment that you decided I am done with this, I have to move on from this?

Cherie: 5:08

I would say it was a process. I don't know if there was one moment, but there was a process of starting to consider was I really as helpless as I felt? Because that helplessness is really what led to so much of that depression and that hopelessness, because I felt like I didn't have any choices. I, you know, was so angry at myself for marrying this person. I later learned compassion and realizing I was not healthy myself, and so I made the decision to marry this person, not in a healthy place, and so I could have compassion for that later.

Cherie: 5:39

At the time I did not have a lot of anger at myself. I had anger at God for not fixing things and not helping me when it was kind of like, hey, I'm sticking this out, I'm trying to make this work, I'm miserable, and why aren't you helping me fix things? So when I realized, okay, maybe I'm not stuck, maybe this idea that divorce is wrong, no matter what, from a Christian perspective, maybe that's not right. And so I did what I tend to do with things I dig in and I research the heck out of it. And I just did a lot of Bible studies and read a lot of books on divorce from a biblical perspective and really came to a different place and understanding about divorce and what the Bible teaches about that. It was still hard because not everybody agreed with my new perspective, including my family, but I finally got to a place where I had to make the decision that was right for me to survive, regardless of whether other people approved of that or not.

Heidi: 6:41

That's really powerful. So what was the aftermath of that? After you had made the decision to choose yourself and to stand up for yourself and to not be treated that way any longer, what affected that have on other areas of your life? Where did you go from there?

Cherie: 6:57

It really impacted everything because of a lot of my friendships were wrapped up in couples that we were friends with and things like that. Like I said, my family didn't approve. They were actually pretty supportive despite not approving, but they were very obvious in not approving and some of the things they said were really quite hurtful, which they have apologized for since then. But in the moment it took a lot of gusto to make that decision, even though I knew these people that I really loved and respected and wanted them to be supportive of my decision weren't, and so that created some strain in some relationships that were really important to me and some of my support system with friends that were not really a part of my life anymore. That went away and so I had to learn how to lean heavily and be vulnerable and ask for support when I needed it from the people that were still there. And I did have some amazing friends. I call them 2am friends, you know the kind of friends that if you needed to, you could call them at 2am and they wouldn't think anything of it and they would be there for you. I did have some of those which I'm so thankful for, and they were a huge part of me being able to get through that and I definitely changed through all of that right.

Cherie: 8:17

I really had to look within and figure out who I was in this next new chapter of my life as a single person, a divorced person. You know, I used to be very judgmental as a religious person of divorced people and here I was one. So I had to kind of come to terms with that and also kind of reconcile that I didn't really like the person I used to be in that judgmental place. I had to find a new church and, you know, new hobbies, a new place to live. I mean, it really was a reinvention. Everything was new and different, which was very exciting in some ways but very scary, of course, and others.

Heidi: 8:55

Have you since had to go and do some forgiveness work with your family as well, because you mentioned you were in a better place with that? Now, what was that process like?

Cherie: 9:05

I'm very fortunate to come from a pretty functional family. I mean, we've got our stuff, as all families do, but, like overall, my family is like, so what I would call functional, and we genuinely love each other and care about each other. And so that's why I say, even though they made it clear that they did not approve, they were still there to support me and you know, with some of the logistics and things like that, and I'm incredibly thankful for that. But yeah, it was an unexpected conversation many years later about that time and I received an apology that I didn't expect or wasn't asking for, but certainly was a healing thing to hear.

Heidi: 9:46

Yeah, and tell me about when did you move into doing therapy and counseling? How did that come into play in the story? Because I imagine you probably weren't doing that at that time that you were going through that.

Cherie: 9:58

Not exactly. So it's kind of a funny story because I met my ex in our undergraduate program in college and we both started out thinking we were going to get a master's in social work and do counseling and we both dropped out pretty quick for different reasons. I knew I still wanted to do that. I just that program wasn't the right one for me and so I thought you know, oh, I'll go back to school a little bit, I'll just figure out where I want to go, get a job, that kind of thing.

Cherie: 10:29

Well, he was not supportive of me going back to school and so the next eight years that was not something he would allow me to do. So when I separated from him and got my own apartment, I was still hoping to make the marriage work, but I was drawing boundaries and starting to put in some conditions about things. One of the things I did was I signed up for a graduate program for counseling and I didn't care if he was okay with it, which he was not, of course but it was kind of like hey, this is part of like, if we're going to move forward in this marriage, like I'm a different person and you know I'm going to pursue my dreams and you're either going to accept that or you're not.

Cherie: 11:12

And he obviously, like I said, did not. But so I started my graduate program kind of about the same time that I was pulling away from the marriage and starting to put in some good boundaries there. And it took me a while because I had a lot of life change during that time. We ended up, you know, getting divorced and you know, a couple years later I met my husband and that my current husband. We got remarried, we had a kid, we moved back to Texas. So it took me like four years to get my degree because I was working full-time and going through a lot of a lot of life Changed. But I think that was a good thing. It gave me time to continue to do my own healing work and be in a place where I was ready to actually Get into the nitty-gritty of doing work with other people from a more healed place. Again, certainly not perfect. I'm on my own journey forever and always.

Heidi: 12:04

But right, we all are exactly that idea of like always reinventing.

Cherie: 12:09

You know we never like stop and stand still and just get stagnant, but Definitely, like I said, from a more healed place to be able to help others.

Heidi: 12:18

Now tell me about how how you're helping people right now. What's your main area of focus?

Cherie: 12:24

So my main specialty is body image work and eating disorders and that's kind of part of my the other chapter of my reinvention story. I am also recovered from an eating disorder. I had one in college, struggled quite a bit, but I had recovered. Looking back now I realized I was not fully recovered and so I ended up actually relapsing pretty hard after the divorce I it wasn't anything that I really expected to happen. I didn't see it coming and in some ways it didn't make sense to me because I was like this is the best time of my life. Why am I relapsing in my eating disorder? But a lot of it was I'm I'm an all-or-nothing personality If anybody can relate to that, like if I'm gonna do something yeah, yeah 110% and I had decided I don't know why.

Cherie: 13:12

Looking back, I'm like why did I decide that? But I signed up for a half marathon that was taking place on like the anniversary Of our like wedding anniversary. So it was gonna be like the first wedding anniversary after we had gotten divorced. I was gonna be running a half marathon and that was gonna be my way of like you know, I don't know your personal victory or your statement to the world.

Cherie: 13:34

Yeah, exactly Exactly, and I had never been a runner before. So again, I am not sure I understand the sentiment there. I'm not understand. I'm not sure why I picked running of all things. But you know, with that I, like I said, I was kind of a slippery slope back into my eating disorder. I'm pretty restrictive and then, you know, exercise kind of became a bit of a compulsive thing for me.

Cherie: 13:57

That was wrapped up in my eating disorder and so I did Pretty quickly decide like, oh my gosh, I can't do this it. It is so consuming. I don't know if anybody listening has an eating disorder and knows what that's like, but it is. It really does take over your life and it is. It is so miserable and recovery is really hard. But I knew that I couldn't live my life that way. I didn't want to be chained to that. I didn't want to be obsessed about my body and food and, you know, hate myself and my body anymore. I was ready to be done and start a new chapter in that as well. And so, you know, pretty quickly I decided to do the work to like fully recover this time and be in a place where I would say like I actually have a peaceful relationship with food in my body.

Heidi: 14:46

Yeah, and amen to that, because I think Probably every woman listening to some degree can relate to what you're saying. Because of the pressure that we get from our culture, this is what's attractive, this is what when a woman is supposed to look like. This is desirable, this is not desirable. All of these stories that we've heard, you know from the time we basically could, you know, understand what was going on. We've been implanted with this messaging that our worthiness somehow comes from what we look like on the outside and absolutely it is such a Internal journey, it's such an inward journey to overcome things like that because it's half. You're having to have a massive paradigm shift and realize your own worthiness and realize that you are innately worthy and you are infinitely loved. And it doesn't matter what size your genes are, but when that's been so hard programmed into your brain and your body.

Cherie: 15:59

Mm-hmm.

Heidi: 16:00

It's. It's tough, and I Can completely relate to what you're saying in my own experience as well. So I'm really glad that you're sharing about that, because I know that a lot of people listening will relate in one aspect or another. So tell me, what did that journey, kind of the journey back home to yourself. What did that look like?

Cherie: 16:23

It was definitely a process, because I kind of joke sometimes with my clients that it's like you're working really hard and you feel like nothing's changing and then all sudden one day you wake up and you realize things are different and that's kind of how it felt. That it felt like for a long time like oh, I could never like really get there to a place where I can just call a truce with myself In my body. This is the best it's gonna be. I, you know, and I I'm so glad that I was wrong about that. I don't usually like to be wrong, but I was glad to be wrong about that and I'm glad that I kept Pressing forward and working for the hope of something better, even though I didn't totally believe it was possible.

Cherie: 17:02

So it it was several years of really working on myself. Like I said, learning self-compassion was really important, digging into my faith, who I felt like God created me to be, in my relationship with him. It was immersing myself in the body, acceptance, body positivity, culture and really uprooting and trying to Get rid of a lot of the messages from diet culture and beauty culture that were just kind of Poisoning my brain, like you were saying. You know it starts early. I have a four-year-old daughter and I will be the first to attest it starts early because she does not get those messages From me or from our house, but she comes home. I mean, it started when she was, I think, three the first time she asked me am I pretty? Mama, girls are supposed to be pretty, and my heart just broke.

Heidi: 17:53

You're like. You're the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life.

Cherie: 17:59

Yeah, you know, and then even still, what I told her is like but that's not even the most important thing. The thing is that I Love you because you are. You are so sweet and you are smart and you are funny and you are strong and you are brave, and those are the things that make you beautiful, you know. But you know it's, it's continued and, like you said, it's, it's everywhere. So it's another one of those kind of having to come to terms with having a paradigm shift that goes against the grain and.

Cherie: 18:28

Being okay with that, because it really is countercultural to say, hey, I don't accept the messaging that my value lies in what I look like, right and now. I'm like speaking for inventing Continuously now that I'm past 40.

Cherie: 18:44

I'm starting to get into that like second layer. I think of body acceptance, of now I'm trying to accept my changing and aging body. That takes me further away from culture, beauty standards and and working on accepting that. And you know it's a daily decision of how much time, money and effort do we really want to spend on trying to be pretty and fun to look at?

Heidi: 19:11

Yeah, I had a fun conversation with a gal this morning. I do like bar workout, that's what I love and she had this beautiful silver hair and I think you know I don't know exactly what her age was she's younger. I could tell that. I'm not going to take a guess at her age, but I could tell she was younger and maybe even in her 30s. She looked pretty young and I said I've got to ask you.

Heidi: 19:41

And she goes about my hair. And I said I am so curious about this because it's something I'm really. You know, I'm starting to go longer in between highlighting and things and it's I just had an x plant surgery in November. So I'm really doing the same thing that you are like deciphering between what's important to me and what has been told to me should be important, and what is beauty to me and what has been told to me that is should be beauty. And so I was having conversation with her about it and she said I wanted to ask you about your hair because when my hair is pulled back there's quite a bit of gray. And she's like is that real? I said oh, yeah, and we just have this really cool connection and it was like yeah, I see you and you are just so beautiful and it's amazing to see more young women accepting that this is the color my hair grows out of my head.

Cherie: 20:41

Yeah, I love that, and I went through a period where I was growing it out a few years ago and I grew it out for about two, maybe two and a half years and then, honestly, I just got super bored with it because I'm the type that's like always changing my hair. I just cut it off a few months ago, like I just get bored with it and I'm like I just don't see myself keeping it the same color forever. So I ended up coloring over it, which was kind of a hard decision. I felt like I had really like invested in growing it out for a while, but I think that just goes to show that it's like. You know, these things in and of themselves aren't good or bad. It really comes from, like, why are we doing these things? Are we doing them because we genuinely want to, we like them or we like the way they look, or is it because we feel like we have to do that to be okay or to be loved or approved of? You know, those are completely different motivations.

Heidi: 21:30

And can the worthy challenge be to do it and go like, yeah, I'm still okay with me and I think I'd like to do this now, right, it doesn't mean that nothing has to be permanent, it's just I remember that with some of my own body image, journey is like gaining weight and going. Am I okay with me? Yeah, I think I'm okay with me. Okay, cool. Now how do I want to move and treat my body from a better place, not from a place where I'm having to punish myself for, you know, being wrong?

Cherie: 22:07

Yes, oh, I love that. That's exactly the work that I'm trying to do with women now and help them realize like there is an alternative to all of this, like body shame and body punishment that we find so normal in our culture when it relates to women. And you know, sometimes we're even bonding over that when we're talking about you know how we're dieting and you know how embarrassed we are that you know we've gained X weight or whatever. You know it's kind of sad that we even see that as a way to bond with other women. So I love seeing more and more of these messages about like, hey, maybe we can just be okay with how God made us and normalize that body's change as we get older. And you know, I feel like the more we are okay with ourselves, the more we offer that invitation for others to just be okay with themselves, and that's powerful.

Heidi: 22:58

I agree and I think that when we talk about being the catalyst for change in the next generation, you know you talked about your daughter. I have a daughter who's almost 10. She tells me I'm never going to get boobs, mom. And I said, sweetheart, you are. And she said, but I know what, I'm not going to go and get them. And I said, good, I'm glad that you're making that choice for yourself, right, because you've had to see what mommy went through because of the choice that I made. And we all make mistakes and we all try things on. And then we continue to evolve and we continue to become. Hopefully we step closer into the truth of who we're here to be, and then we can show our daughters through our own journey that, hey, mom wasn't perfect, but she was always learning and she was always growing and she was always trying to set a good example for you.

Cherie: 23:53

Yeah, I love that and you know it's like I was saying earlier, offering the younger you that self compassion of hey, you made the best decision at the time that you could, trying to get your needs met. And you know we all want to feel okay, we all want to feel a sense of worthiness and belonging and love. You know. I just think that's part of the cultural issue is that we are trained to look for those things or try to gain those things in all the wrong ways.

Cherie: 24:21

You know I mean, I had recently a client talking about you know how great things have been going and things were growing great in her relationship and she was just so happy and like work was finally going well. And then she said, but I just I need to lose some weight. And I said, oh, okay, that's so interesting. Tell me why you feel like you need to lose some weight, well, so I can be happy. I was like, okay, I feel like I have to point out that you just talked for half an hour about how happy you are. Permission to be happy now.

Cherie: 24:52

Right, exactly, you know, we a lot of times we have this idea that I have to change my body or look different, because then I'll have XYZ. And it's often those things. Either we already have them or they're at least available to us now. We don't have to wait until you know such and such a date.

Heidi: 25:09

And for those of us who have been on the extreme side of that and had not an ounce of fat on our body, one thing that you'll realize from that is that you're not any happier there than you are where you are now.

Cherie: 25:22

Yes, I say that.

Heidi: 25:23

It's a big realization.

Cherie: 25:25

Yes, Like if that were a fix, if that made you feel happy and loved and secure, there would be no unhappy and secure thin people. But that's just not the reality of things. Right, and oftentimes, you know, I do think those of us who have either dieted or like even on the extreme end like myself, you know, I did lose a lot of weight and I did have more of a quote, unquote ideal body that I look back and I'm like, wow, I looked good by cultural standards but it wasn't enough. At the time, you know, I didn't feel that way. It still felt like not enough. I still felt insecure. There were still so many mornings where I stood in front of the mirror and cried and poked and pulled at my body and wished that it was different.

Heidi: 26:09

Yeah, that's, that's the truth, and it's there's no there. There, the only thing that we can truly find is that self love and that compassion within ourselves and everything else is just a complete illusion that we're going for. So if you can be healthy and move your body and eat well from a place of love like that is that's the ultimate.

Cherie: 26:37

Yes, absolutely, and that's and that's what I try to teach people now and I try to practice. You know I'm trying to figure out what is what does exercise look like? Now that it's not related to my eating disorder. I had a client ask me that the other day about, like, were you a runner, Do you run? I did, but if I'm being honest, that was really wrapped up in my eating disorder and not so much what I really wanted to do. That wasn't like I don't think that was the real me. And so, like now working on gentler ways to exercise and move my body and try to detach that from trying to manipulate my body shape or size and, you know, also detach from that all or nothing thinking of like you know I've got to go hard for an hour for it to count. Well, I don't have the time or energy for that kind of stuff anymore.

Cherie: 27:24

You know, owning my own business and working and raising kids and all the other things it's like. No, you know, if I can get in a 20 minute walk, that counts. That's good, there's benefits and you know, and I enjoy it and it actually adds joy to my life instead of being something that stresses me out or dreams me.

Heidi: 27:43

That's right. You don't have to. You don't have to work out to earn your food Okay, or to, or to punish yourself for what you ate. And I am really cognizant and I really love the instructors at the at the bar studio that I go to, because they don't say things like this is going to slim your thighs or that you know it's like moving away that feels good for you. Push yourself, get outside your comfort zone. Yes, these are good things, but it's not about a Snickers bar is X calories, and so you know you need to make sure you did that today.

Cherie: 28:19

Yeah, that is wonderful, because that is not everybody's experiences going to the gym or to classes and things like that. So that's amazing that you have found that kind of environment, because it makes a huge difference in how you feel about yourself and your body and, and, again, how you experience that exercise. It's something that you're doing for yourself, not to, like you said earlier, not to punish yourself. It comes from a place of self care.

Heidi: 28:43

Yeah, place of self hatred.

Heidi: 28:46

So if there are any exercise instructors out there listening, please use positive, stated language that has more to do with the experience of movement and the benefits of movement. Then anything to do with calories or looks it's. You never know who's in your class and you never know what somebody is going through and you're either, you know, encouraging them in a positive way or you could potentially be feeding into something that is really destructive for someone. So I think that's an important thing. Hopefully somebody hears that and they're like oh, let me rethink, you know, or what I really hope is they're not doing that in the first place, but we don't know what. We don't know until we've become aware. So I'd love to hear a piece of advice that you would have for your younger self. What would you tell her?

Cherie: 29:41

I would tell her not to waste all that time and energy hating herself and her body, and you know to that there are bigger things in life. You know, I don't always know what my calling is. At any given moment I might think like, oh, I definitely know what I'm doing and what I'm supposed to be doing right now. There are other times I think I'm kind of lost. I'm not really sure what God has for me, and I'm actually in one of those seasons right now with my business and work stuff where I'm like I'm not really sure what's coming next. And one thing I do know is I wasn't created to be small and pretty. Like that is not my purpose. And so just really setting your eyes on bigger things because you just create so much more space and mental energy for doing meaningful things and creating more joy in life.

Heidi: 30:29

And what age did you need to hear that most?

Cherie: 30:33

Starting way too young, unfortunately, I would say, probably starting in middle school, like all the way through my 30s, I think, you know, like really around 30 is when I think I started kind of getting on a different journey of like actual body acceptance and, you know, self compassion and all that kind of stuff. So again, way too much of my life, you know, starting way too young. It's part of why I'm so passionate about this, because I'm like I don't want this for other people, I don't want this for my daughter, I don't want this for the amazing women that surround me that I see them obsessed with this stuff or, you know, not seeing their true value in the world or seeing themselves the way that I see them, because they're just, you know, all they see is thighs that rub together or the size on their jeans.

Heidi: 31:22

It's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. Everybody else is like hey, do you see? You're amazing.

Cherie: 31:32

I'm worried about that.

Heidi: 31:34

But you're in there and you're like I don't know, I'm not seeing it. Yeah, yeah, so it's just get more people out of the bottle so they can see the perspective of what's real and what's true. Yeah, absolutely. What are you reinventing right now in your life?

Cherie: 31:50

Well, like I said, I am kind of trying to figure out where am I supposed to go with my, with my work stuff and my business. I absolutely love a lot of the things about the place that I'm in. It also feels like a lot, like I said, I have two kids and I have two parents who are aging and have health problems. My mom has cancer and I do a lot of care taking, so I'm sure a lot of women will also relate to this, but I just feel like there's not enough for me to go around and sometimes it feels like, you know, I'm not doing anything. Well, because I'm trying to spread myself so thin and, you know, self care goes by the wayside, and I'm just trying to figure out if this is sustainable, if it's, if it's going to get better, or if I just need to pivot and change something or let go of some things that I might not want to let go of right now, but it might just be for the season or, like I said, maybe it just needs to change a little bit.

Heidi: 32:43

Yeah, kind of sounds like you're just in the void a little bit, just kind of like, okay, let me know what's what's next, what are my next moves, and just in that soul searching place of deciding what's going to be your next evolution, and that's a beautiful place to be. Sometimes we're in a hurry to get out of that. It's like, okay, well, I need to know what's next, like you said, or not?

Cherie: 33:07

Yes.

Heidi: 33:07

Okay, what move am I making? What's going on?

Cherie: 33:10

Yes.

Heidi: 33:11

But sometimes that's just right where we are, because that's where we need to be for whatever the lesson is in that that time.

Cherie: 33:19

Yeah, I do feel like you're. You're spot on with that, because I feel very called out, because that is actually me. I'm very like impatient with wanting to get to the next thing and wanting to know the plan, you know, and all that kind of stuff, and I feel like God has purpose in this season and some of that is just learning to trust him and and let go. You know, I want to hold things with the death grip and you know I'm. I think he wants me to unclench my hand a little bit and be willing to, to let go and and let let things be what they're going to be and trust that it will work out for good.

Cherie: 33:52

And not feel like I have to be super controlling.

Heidi: 33:56

Yeah, we're definitely tapped in just to the same frequency here because, like I said, I posted five minutes before we got on this call and what I said is the the greatest mastery that you can have is to be able to hold the balance of intention and surrender.

Cherie: 34:18

It's a dance.

Heidi: 34:19

And we go in and out of it and we learn the steps and we stumble and hopefully we can smile along the way.

Cherie: 34:26

Yes, exactly, that's the hard part. That's the hard part. Sometimes I look back in seasons and I think, man, that could have gone differently if I had just been willing to adjust my perspective or be willing to let go and like submit to the process a little bit. And so I'm like, okay, I don't want it to be that way again where, you know, five years from now, I'm looking back at the season thinking I really could have like gone through that in a better, in a better way and with more grace. So, yeah, I love that and it's one of those things that's so beautiful to hear that. And the day to day can be challenging, right, it's. For me it's a continual, like laying things down or making the choice to be flexible or to live in the, the uncertainty and just tolerate that, that anxiety, mm, hmm.

Heidi: 35:13

Yeah, that be in. The be comfortable in the discomfort of what's there without having to fix it or change it.

Cherie: 35:24

Yes, exactly the work isn't it?

Heidi: 35:29

Well, I'd love for you to tell us where people can find you online, how they can connect with you. People who want to want to get some, maybe some help with what you're offering, or just resonated with your story and want to connect.

Cherie: 35:44

Oh, for sure I love that. I'm trying to get to be more active on social media again this year, and last year it was really hard, so I'm trying to get back into that. So I'm on Instagram. I. That's about all I can handle. I cannot handle some of like doing the tick tocks and all of that.

Cherie: 35:57

Yeah, even though people keep telling me you need to get on tick tock, like well, this is more than I can handle right now. So I'm on Instagram my handle is food freedom therapist and I also have a website for my, for my practice. It's nourished soul centercom, and I'm really been trying to. Again, finding time is so hard, but I'm working on a body image course.

Cherie: 36:20

That's like a mastermind, so I'm like dumping everything I can think of into it, which I probably, looking back, I'm like maybe I should have started small, but I was just so like excited and passionate to just, like I said, dump everything that I could think of to help people with body image work. So it's been quite an undertaking. I was hoping to get it out last summer, but I am, I'm committed, I'm going to get it out this spring. My husband said he will like set aside some time to watch the kids to help me do that. So thank you to a supportive partner, so I'm hoping to get that out soon. So, if anybody's interested, I do have like a you can sign up for to be on like the list to get information about that when that comes out.

Heidi: 36:58

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Shari. I really enjoyed the conversation. Appreciate having you here.

Cherie: 37:04

I did too. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share my story and have this platform just to like send help. Other women know that they're not alone. Thank you.