Entrepreneur Expat
On this podcast, we connect entrepreneurial expats and aspiring expats together to build a global community of adventurous entrepreneurs. Each week we bring you a new podcast where we share our expat adventures and highlight 6 and 7 figure expat entrepreneurs on how they run a business from anywhere in the world.
Entrepreneur Expat
Why Americans are Moving to Mexico City (our take on the CNBC Make It Video)
Join us on "Entrepreneur Expat" as Justin Keltner and Amanda Abella delve into the expat lifestyle in Mexico, drawing from their personal experiences and a recent CNBC video on Americans relocating to Mexico City. They explore the allure of Mexico's quality of life, the practicalities of living in Guadalajara vs. Mexico City, and the impact of the pandemic on expat migration. From the cost of living to integrating into Mexican culture, this episode offers a comprehensive look at what it means to embrace life abroad without sacrificing the essence of entrepreneurship. Discover tips on navigating visas, the real estate landscape, and how to live like royalty on a budget, all while maintaining a successful digital business. Whether you're contemplating a move or seeking ways to optimize your expat journey, this episode is your guide to thriving in Mexico's vibrant expat community.
Welcome to another episode of the Entrepreneur Expat. I'm joined again today with the lovely Amanda Abella. Hi, everyone. And we recently saw a video on CNBC about all of the Americans that were moving to Mexico City. So we wanted to kind of chime in about that. And as expats that are living in Mexico, just give you a little bit of our perspective. So. Amanda, what were some of the things in the video that just stood out the most to you? Was there anything that was really? Uh, like yeah, i'm absolutely on the same page about that. Was there anything that you maybe disagreed with?
Amanda Abella:Oh good question So I think one common theme that theme that kept coming up a lot Which i've also expressed on this podcast and on my other podcast make money your honey Is that a lot of Americans are moving to Mexico because the quality of life here is better for us. I think we've talked about how Mexico has a different value system, uh, than the U. S., which leads to kind of a less stressful pace of life and a less stressful pace of living. Uh, there was a woman specifically, who we're gonna get on this podcast, uh, in that they were interviewing in that segment. And she said that she doesn't really rush anywhere anymore since moving to Mexico, Mexico City specifically, and I was like, yeah, I feel like we don't really rush anymore either. Not like we do in the states. No,
Justin Keltner:that's, that's definitely, that's definitely true here. We tend to have a leisurely breakfast, walk half a block to the corner grocery store, get some, some eggs, which are probably about a, what, half of the price they are in the U. S. So we buy eggs here, just buy the kilo. They give you like a kilo of eggs. They last forever because they're not, you know, washed or chemically processed or anything like that. Um, and we just kind of take it easy. You know, we have, uh, our. Morning and evening routine that we that we do, uh, kind of easing into the day. It's it's very nice You're not like in in the u. s. A lot of the time you're in rush hour traffic you're You know trying to get to work always trying to get somewhere in LA a friend that's in the same city You might be driving 30 40 minutes or an hour an hour and a half just to go see them just because they're on a different part of LA And it's not I mean Every hour of the day is rush hour in La like Miami is starting to get like that. Miami's starting to
Amanda Abella:get like that too. Yeah. Ever since after the pandemic. The other thing that they brought up, uh, in the C N B C inter um, segment was how, you know, Mexico exploded with Americans after the pandemic, but they didn't really go into why. They didn't really go into why Americans, a lot of Americans, were attracted to Mexico during the pandemic. So how about we talk about that a little bit based on our perspective and also based on what we hear expats saying here and also in expat communities online. So let's state the obvious. Mexico stayed open during the pandemic. It was open. It was barely closed. During the pandemic, uh, my understanding from conversations that I've had is that the government here understood that if they closed Mexico, it would be detrimental to their economy. So, a lot of Americans came here from California, or, I mean, I'm from Florida, so we didn't have as much of a problem as, uh, California over here, but a lot of Americans were like, well, it's open in Mexico I'm going over there or I remember being in a in a coaching group during kovat And there were a lot of Canadians and a lot of Canadians were like they could not take how restrictive Canada was and they were like packing their bags and going to Mexico and Costa
Justin Keltner:Rica. Yeah We have friends like that that did exactly that where they're like, you know, I Don't want to have certain procedures that the government wishes to mandate upon me and, uh, because of that, they weren't able to see, uh, they weren't able to see their kids, you know, hockey practices or swim meets or, uh, anything like that. They had to literally wait outside because they wouldn't let him in the room. And, and finally, you know, a couple of friends of mine, some of which we, uh, some of whom we may have on the podcast soon, just said, you know what? Screw it. I'm not going to take it anymore. And, and they left. And, uh, I was actually in Colombia during the pandemic, which arguably was one of the most, uh, restrictive of them all. But I feel like during that entire time, we kind of got a real true sense for, for where, um, where the alliances of, of different countries and where, where the, uh, Yeah, like what they really, what their true colors were, I guess is the way to put it. And to your point, Amanda, about how a lot of them shut down, like Columbia shut down almost completely. They had military on the streets, checking to make sure nobody was going literally out of their house. Not just shutting down businesses. It was very, very restrictive. California wasn't even nearly as bad as it was in Columbia. But Mexico for the most part stayed open. I mean, they had mandates, uh, for masks and things like that for. A decent period of time, I mean over a year for sure in some states, but they didn't restrict travel like a lot of other countries did. So it was kind of kind of showing their true colors in a big way. And the other thing is just with the, uh, the pandemic these last few years, um, which it's amazing to, to think that that went on for as long as it did, but that's another story for another day. Uh, we realized that people could productively work without having to actually go. Into an office. So the culture in the, in the US and in other countries as well moved towards being able to work remotely much more than other people have been able to. Now, I've been working remotely and working for the most part for myself and serving clients for Over a decade already. Yeah, like a decade. So it didn't change much for me So
Amanda Abella:my life really
Justin Keltner:did not change that other than other than a lot of people, uh, Coming to you know coming overseas like we are and so it created a lot more competition uh, one one of the things they were talking about in the video is how The rent in mexico city in many neighborhoods increased by as much as 160 in just a couple years, so That was an interesting thing to note. Um, but yeah, it definitely fueled that, that kind of digital nomad wave because so many more people were able to work and it was just something that was more commonly accepted being able to work, uh, to work remotely now. One of the things that they that they talk about in their videos if we look at the numbers, so we actually pulled some stats from that video and from other places and if you look at the increase just between 2019 and 2022 of Americans applying for or renewing residency visas in 2019 17, 800 Americans roughly applied for or renewed their residency visa in Mexico. Seven, so get more or less, I call it 18, 000 applying or renewing for, for Mexican visas. 2022, we had over 30, 000 people, 30, 000 Americans specifically applying for residency in Mexico. So if we do the math on that, uh, that's an increase of approximately 70%. So it almost doubled in those two years because frankly, A lot of Americans said, you know what? Fuck it. We're not going to deal with this anymore. They couldn't take it anymore. Uh, I don't have the numbers specifically for Canadians, but I would imagine that there's, uh, a lot of that going on as well, and Canadians... Uh, historically, I've always, uh, a lot of them have always come down to Mexico for the winter snowbirds because it gets so cold up there. Uh, and, and a lot of those Canadians and a lot of Americans, uh, used to and are now even more so coming in on tourist visas and staying for 6 months, then going back and then coming back. So, the actual numbers, uh, As of 2022, you know, we had about 30, 000 Americans in reality. It's probably closer to maybe 40 or 50 or more.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, because they're not counting the people like me who are currently here on a tourist visa. But to your point, and I think this is important to, to bring up because there are so many more Americans coming to Mexico and you brought this up to me and we got my appointment for, uh, to apply for a visa as soon as we could. You know, thankfully, you know, Justin had contacts to be able to make that happen, because he's already been through this process to help me. Um, but, one of the things that you brought up, and I think this is worth noting, I think this is really important based on what we're seeing on the ground, is that, uh, Mexico's starting to get a little bit More strict in terms of those tourist visas and also the requirements for getting a residency visa. So because of the influx of not just Americans, but Canadians, there's also all kinds of people here. I mean, there's Argentines here, Haitians, like, everybody's here in Mexico. Um, but particularly for Americans, they're starting to get more strict about Those visas so this did not happen to me when I first came here I got my stamp in Mexico City for the six months and I was good But we have heard stories of people who are not getting those six months anymore They're not getting that stamp for six months anymore because the mexican government's starting to get more restrictive On it because there were so many americans here basically living off A tourist
Justin Keltner:visa. Exactly. And, and to, to be clear, normally Americans are able to get up to six months in a lot of countries that have like a visa, essentially a visa waiver type of program with Mexico, uh, they get a tourist card. It used to be an actual physical card that they handed you. Now they're just stamping the passport and a, and in a lot of places it's, it's actually just all digital. Uh, but what's happening is, You're able to stay for up to six months, you're able to stay for up to 180 days, but it's at the discretion of the immigration officer that stamps your passport. So what that means is if you say, okay, well, I'm coming for... Uh, you know, about a month, and then they ask you where your return flight is, and you don't show them your return flight. Again, this isn't always going to happen, but it has happened to people that we know. And then you don't have a return flight, well, then they may just give you the stamp for up to a month. So it's something to be aware of. And if you're considering moving to a place like Mexico, you, you are going to want to get an appointment to get a... residency visa if you're planning on staying for more than a few months a year, uh, or Moving here permanently because as amanda mentioned number one, it's getting much harder number two They are cracking down on those tourist permits that they uh that they issue so it's important to have legal status in the country and that also means that If if for example shit does hit the fan in another country and then mexico decides and I know this sounds very Like out there. Um, and hopefully this doesn't come true, but it's happened in other, other places in the world where they start to get more and more restrictive, either about immigration or tourism or whatever from another country. Maybe they reduce the amount of time you can stay on a tourist visa or a tour tourist permit from six months down to three, as is the case in Columbia and other places. Uh, and. Because you don't have that residence permit yet, you're going to have now issues that you didn't even anticipate. So, it's important to use some forward thinking and planning and plan ahead to make sure you have the paperwork, uh, together. Now, if you want more information, uh, about the specific details of that, we're putting together a guide, and we're going to have a waitlist for that, uh, or access to that, depending on when you listen to this. Uh, at the bottom of, uh, this video or in the show notes for the podcast, uh, and we're gonna, we're gonna have it@entrepreneurexpat.com slash Mexico where we're gonna be going into some more of the, of the details, uh, of what you need in Mexico to be able to, to immigrate here. And we'll be able to also support you a little bit more in depth if that's something that you're interested in doing. Long term, if you're serious about moving forward with that, we're actually putting together some more resources and, um, Amanda doesn't know this yet, but we're, we're going to be doing some, some consulting actually on relocation as well, because we've been getting into that a lot. And our friends have been asking us, and a lot of our colleagues have been asking us, how did you guys do it? How do you move overseas? How do you get your bank account set up all this little detail? So we're actually going to have that. So just. Be ready for that. That's going to be coming soon and you can go to as I mentioned entrepreneur expat And you'll be able to get those details.
Amanda Abella:One thing that I think is really important to talk about, which came up in the video, is, um, that sometimes there's been some friction because Americans are not necessarily accessible. assimilating to Mexican culture and I think this is actually really important to talk about because and then we can talk about why we chose Guadalajara Over Mexico City. I think a lot of people would be interested in that but a lot of people Have have taken issue with the fact that Americans move to another country. Not just Mexico This has happened in other countries. They move to another country, but they do not So part of what's happened in Mexico City is, uh, from my understanding, is that Americans live in kind of like a little bubble, right? So they live in, uh, what are the neighborhoods again? Like Polanco? Did I get that
Justin Keltner:one? Polanco, Odessa.
Amanda Abella:Odessa. You know, so they kind of stay in their little American expat bubble, and you see that here in Guadalajara, too, where we are, where they're like in Colonia Americana, and they like don't leave Colonia Americana, and everybody there speaks English, and they're kind of in their comfortable little American Canadian bubble. So we do not recommend doing that, right? We don't do that. We don't think that's cool, actually. Um, we understand the concern of perhaps not Knowing a language, but you would not expect somebody to go to your country and not learn and build an enclave And then build an enclave and not learn their language So we behoove americans that if you are going to be moving to another country Get, actually get immersed in the other country. Don't just stay in your little American Canadian bubble, because that's what feels the most safe, because you're really depriving yourself of a wonderful culture of really opening your eyes and your heart and your ears to other things. And one of the reasons why we chose Guadalajara, actually, is because I hated all the beaches in Mexico because it was full of drunk Americans and Canadians. I was not a fan. Do you want to talk a little bit about that because that's one of the things that really like turns me off Personally is when you know americans and I am a we're both american. Okay, we're both living in mexico But it turns us off when, um, Americans come here and basically just create like an enclave and don't leave their American Canadian bubble and then you go to places like Puerto Vallarta or Playa del Carmen which don't even feel like Mexico
Justin Keltner:anymore. Yeah, that's so true and I think we can kind of end on this note around What happens when Americans move to another place? Because I think it's really important to assimilate to the culture that you're in. I think it's really important to, if you're going to move somewhere, like enjoy the culture, uh, adapt some of the, some of the values, you know, learn the language. You might be really, really happy that you did, because if the entire reason that you're getting out of the U. S. is because you want a higher quality of life, you want to be around better people. Uh, it shouldn't be just because you want to save money, because if you're the only reason you're coming here. Is because you want to save money and and live like amanda said this before like a broke digital nomad And okay, let me minimize everything in my life. Well number one Expansion is much better than minimization. Expand everything. Use the fact that there's a lower cost of living to increase the quality of life that you have, not just by spending more on material things or a nicer apartment or a better neighborhood or, or a bougie Americanized neighborhood, um, but, but spend more money so that you can, you can put some away so you can invest some money so that. Uh later down the line your investments can grow and you can compound this is that's what we're doing I mean, we're putting away pretty much 40 percent of our
Amanda Abella:now is 40 percent of our income is being put well right now We're just socking it away until we decide what we want to invest in do we invest in real estate? Who knows? Maybe here in Mexico, maybe not here in Mexico. Worst case scenario, we have cash and then maybe we can go to Malaysia, right? And go to their, their visa that they have over there that has certain financial requirements. So you don't want to, you don't, you, it's your point, expansion. One of the reasons, particularly entrepreneurs move overseas is so that they have more cashflow. Yep. Which makes complete sense, and I think that this is important for Americans to understand as well, because there's a lot of Americans that will resist moving to another country because they think the U. S. is like the best country in the world. First of all, there is no best country in the world. It doesn't exist. They all have their pros and their cons. Second, and I think part of the friction is also that a lot of people say, well, the dollar here goes a lot further, so Americans are taking over. Yes, right? Why wouldn't you do that, right? People have always moved, like, throughout all of humanity, human beings have always moved based on where there was more opportunity and what made more sense for their money. Always. Since the beginning of history, this is not going to change because they're always going to move toward okay, what actually works for me? What is actually best for me and my money and my family and my cash flow? Why wouldn't you do that? Why would you keep staying in a place where the opportunity is not there for you only because you're scared? And for a lot of Americans, that's exactly what their ancestors did. How do you think you got to the United States? Because somebody in your family, in your ancestry, made a call. Now for us, it's a little closer because my parents are, we're both first generation Americans. But a lot of Americans, three, four, five, six generations back, that's exactly what your ancestors did. Probably from Europe or wherever they came from, which was, Hey, there's a better opportunity in the Americas. That's where we're going to go. And then they had the courage and the bravery to actually go do that because it is courageous to move to another country. I understand people's fears, but at the same time, you wouldn't be doing anything your ancestors didn't already do.
Justin Keltner:That's absolutely true. And it's, it's, it's very interesting because I think that We were watching a video about this this morning that talked about kind of the, the legacy trust that, that, uh, the institutions in our country have earned and how, because America is so well known to be such a good place to live and everybody's immigrated, uh, to, uh, America that, to the United States specifically because of that. People think that it's the best and it always was the best and it's always going to be the best. But the reality of it is that sometimes tides shift. And for some people, it might be the best place to live. And I completely acknowledge that. And, and there's some circumstances, uh, under which maybe it does make sense to be there. Like if you've got a business you're running and you absolutely can't leave. Okay. That's, that's something to, to, to note. But if that's the case, also, you may want to look at, is that really the, the level of flexibility that you want to have in your life? So I think that one thing that people find is that when they start questioning, okay, where do I want to live in the world and then they find these, these different, um, these different limitations that are there tangibly in their life. They start questioning why they actually have those limitations and if, if those are really necessary, because if you have an in person business. Well, maybe you could make it online instead. Maybe you could sell all or part of it and just retain uh interest in it from for consulting remotely for that same business and make Potentially as much as you were making before with less overhead with less overhead. Yeah, or do that same business here It's very easy to start a company and in a lot of other countries Mexico included sure There's a little bit more red tape in a lot of places sure many many countries in the world they're not as business friendly as the US but It takes way less capital to do it. I mean, by, by, by a factor of 10 or 20. So that's another thing to keep in mind because labor significantly cheaper, rent is significantly cheaper, utilities are significantly cheaper, and you have access to a very, very educated, uh, very hardworking labor pool as well. And we went up to a little, went off on a little tangent there, but I thought it was, is really important to note because people might say, you know, okay, I'm stuck here. I've got my family. I've got this. I've got that. What would you tell people that are. That are kind of thinking that, that have those either tangible or intangible or self created limitations. You're
Amanda Abella:never stuck, especially if you were born in the United States. You're definitely not stuck. And I think this is where our perspective is a little bit unique, because a lot of the people who have these conversations online about being American expats and being entrepreneurs in other countries, their families have been in the U. S. for decades, and they're just over it. And I think they no longer understand the appeal of the United States to, for example, Families like ours who were living in other countries had horrible situations going on and then moved to the United States But to that point if my parents who were from cuba, right and cuba is a communist dictatorship When my parents left, you could not just, you know, get on a plane and get your passport and do your paperwork and all that kind of stuff. They had to make some very difficult decisions. My grandfather actually worked three years of hard labor in sugar cane fields in exchange for an exit visa from the Cuban government to go to Spain. If they could do it, right, then I don't see why an American who has way more freedoms than my grandparents and parents did can't do it. Because Americans have access to a lot. So I think a lot, a lot of what you said, a lot of the limitations that Americans put on themselves when it comes to things like that are actually self imposed. No one's not, no, you don't need permission to get on a plane and go somewhere. You have, more access to the internet than people in Cuba. You can go learn how to make money
Justin Keltner:online. Yep. And that's actually exactly what we teach in our other business, where we go specifically into how can you build a brand. That's recognizable and more importantly effective and create content online to attract interest and then create a funnel to convert that interest into calls. And then in the program that Amanda created, uh, many, many years ago called Persuade to Profit, we show exactly how to convert those sales calls into clients. Uh, for Four and five and sometimes six figure deals now
Amanda Abella:that being said I do believe the window on It being so easy to do business in the United States is closing, right? There's definitely been legislation in states like California that you look at them like they're crazy that makes it difficult to do business It's impossible
Justin Keltner:to do business California. I don't know how people
Amanda Abella:do it And I I think it would be naive to think that they're not going to try and do it on a federal level So because of that I would say start moving because the writings on the wall. Yep Now, I want to end it on this note, because the CNBC, uh, piece was on Mexico City, right? We tried to go to Mexico City when I first arrived here, and it was complete chaos, and we decided not to live there. We should still go visit Mexico City. Oh, we're definitely going to go visit, but we decided, uh, not to actually live there. And we chose Guadalajara instead. So, if you don't want the chaos of Mexico City, because it is a city of 20 million people, and when we tried to go, there was, like, this complete chaos with registering the car, and you can only drive, um, certain days of the week and certain times of the week because of the population and all because of the traffic and pollution. So, they didn't talk about that part. In the video, so I want to bring that up because we had to experience that and we were like, yeah, we may not want to live in Mexico City. That seems a little chaotic. Just getting there. Yeah, I was getting there from Guadalajara was chaotic. So we decided, um, on Guadalajara, which is actually the second largest city in Mexico. You get a lot of the Mexico City vibe. It's cheaper than Mexico City from my understanding. Um, but you still get a lot of the same vibe. With way less people and way less chaos. I don't know if it's
Justin Keltner:actually cheaper. It really depends on the neighborhood I think Mexico City is a bigger city. So you've got more diversity in terms of your options for For living really what really well, I think that Guadalajara might be marginally more expensive. I think it really varies though We're we may have mentioned this in another video, but our total costs here between like rent and food and everything Between us both, what, like, between two and three thousand a month, probably less? I mean, that's living like kings and queens, though. Yeah, I mean, we have a three story house, we have meals delivered every day. We're not cooking, we're not cleaning. We're not cooking, we're not cleaning, we have staff. We're not doing any of that. We're renovating this house. You're literally renovating a house. I think that would probably be included almost in that.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, at this point, probably. So, yeah, I mean, I would say high end. Two to three thousand. Living like royalty, not cooking, not cleaning, outsourcing those things.
Justin Keltner:Outsourcing dog stuff. Dog stuff. Including massages, not for the dog, for us. We haven't gotten Daisy any massages yet, but maybe that's... On the cards for her. She's a very good girl. Yeah, she deserves it. Yeah for what it's worth. She
Amanda Abella:does Living like royalty two to three thousand a month. Yeah in guadalajara Mexico city might be a little bit higher depending on the neighborhood I would think like contessa and polanco might be a little bit higher like the little american bubbles I think colonia americana might be a little bit more expensive than where we are right now In Guadalajara. So it depends, right? But overall, right, whether you're in Mexico City paying 5, 000 a month to live like royalty in one of the best, nicest neighborhoods there, or you're in Guadalajara paying 3, 000 a month to American entrepreneurs who run actual businesses, and we'll do another episode on being a digital nomad versus actually having a business. This is a no brainer to free up cash flow. Yep.
Justin Keltner:Great. Well, that's what we have for you today. We'll include the video from CNBC for you guys to check it out. Uh, we're going to be doing much more, uh, in terms of content and whatnot on Guadalajara as well. So we're going to be, maybe in this episode, maybe in a future one, we'll start putting in some B roll. Um, just, just some clips from, from around town that we've taken. Uh, and yeah, check out. EntrepreneurExpat. com slash Mexico, where we'll give you some, some resources specific to Mexico and relocating here if you're interested in that. And, uh, for a limited time, we're also going to be offering complimentary, uh, strategy sessions for those looking to relocate here. So if that's something that you are interested in doing, uh, you can just go to that URL. There's going to be more information there, and we'll include links and related content. Uh, around either this video or the show notes depending on where you're watching or listening from. Thanks so much and tune in soon for another episode.