Entrepreneur Expat

Expat Stories: What You Need to Know About Living In Costa Rica with Celesté Lawson

• Justin Keltner

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V I D E O S    T O    W A T C H    N E X T :


Online Business Tips to Working and Traveling In Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zGH0voCyOc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j&index=2

Moving to Mexico: 10 Reasons Why We Chose to Live in Guadalajara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK23vD8_xjc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_LAY7UV78YMgms-f2e1UcwN&index=23

Tips for Moving Overseas: Top 5 Remote Work Skills That Make Money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzjCrlNAL8&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j


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Costa Rica is a country that comes up a lot in the comment section and in our emails when it comes to Americans, Canadians, Western Europeans, and Australians who are interested in living in Latin America. Costa Rica is one of the safest countries in Latin America, and many people have known about it for decades now. Costa Rica's going through some. Changes right now with their residency and their immigration. So I decided to reach out to one of our friends and our partner for relocating to Costa Rica. Celeste Lawson of melanin tours.com to come on the podcast and let us know what's going on in Costa Rica. For those of you who are interested in Costa Rica, so if you are interested in international living, doing business globally, making money online on the expat life. Make sure to subscribe to this channel and hit that notification bell so you don't miss a single video that we have coming out on this channel. We're currently in Mexico, so we're constantly doing updates on what's going on in Mexico, including starting to do scouting tours in the Guadalajara area, and we've partnered with people all over Mexico to help you with your relocation needs. And now we're doing interviews with people internationally. Who can help you with your relocation needs and also give you inspiration for those of you who are still trying to figure out how you're gonna make money while you live in other countries. So we have Celeste today of melanin tours.com. As I already mentioned, she's gonna tell us the updates of what's going on in Costa Rica,'cause there's lots of changes there. She's gonna tell us her story of how she ended up in Costa Rica. She actually got stranded there during Covid and met her husband. It's a very interesting story how she ended up turning that into a whole business that's got her booked and busy right now in Costa Rica. How she can help you relocate to Costa Rica if you're interested in it. Of course, we compared notes between the two countries because that's what always happens. On these interviews and so much more, all her information is gonna be below for those of you who are interested in relocating to Costa Rica. And you can also find all the free resources and things that we have available, whether you're still trying to figure out how to make money online, or you want to invest in Mexico, or you wanna relocate somewhere else, we got you. So all that information will be below. Hey everyone, and welcome to another interview on Entrepreneur Expat for our Expat Stories series. Today we have Celeste with us of melanin tours.com. Celesta is very special. We met about a year ago before. Entrepreneur expat was even really a thing. It was just kind of an idea in mine and Justin's head and, uh, she's based in Costa Rica and she helps people relocate to Costa Rica. And there's a lot of changes going on in Costa Rica right now with immigration. So Celeste is here to explain it all to us. Thank you so much for coming, uh, on the, on the podcast and on the video series to share your own expat story and adventures and how you became an expat and answering all the questions for people who are interested in Costa Rica, because I'm sure, I think I saw it on your Facebook, you know, uh, Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, Columbia, um, I feel like there was another one, and I can't remember right now, are like the countries in Latin America that come up literally all the time, that everyone's always comparing to see which one's best for them. Exactly. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad that we reconnected. I. So before getting into how you help your clients relocate to Costa Rica, all the changes that are going on in Costa Rica right now that are important for people to know, who are interested, um, how, how did Sota even end up in Costa Rica? Because you were born and raised in the United States. Yes, correct. Yes, exactly. Okay. Yes. So that is a funny story. So yes, born in New York, grew up in South Carolina, was in the military for a while, so I've traveled quite a bit. Um, Costa Rica is actually, well, it was the fourth country that I moved to. So, um, December, 2019, I decided that I was ready to move out of the country again. And, uh, initially I looked at Brazil and Ecuador. Ecuador is the other country that comes up a lot. Yeah. That's the one I always forget. It's Ecuador. Okay. Yeah. So I googled temperate climates and that's what came up for me. But for some reason at that time, um, it just seemed pretty convoluted to figure out how to visit, let alone move there. And I remember at the time Southwest had sail on flights to Costa Rica in time. And so I'm gonna started speaking Spanish all good. A portion of our audience speaks Spanish or is learning Spanish. So, uh, I said to myself, well, I'm pretty sure I could figure out my life. Wanna be Chin Costa Rica. So I, um, put my condo in the market, threw everything in storage, um, and March 1st, 2020, got on the plane, uh, from DC. And landed in, in 90 degree weather with a fur coat on. And um, so the first couple weeks I just took to decompress, walk to the beach, swim in the pool, and just kind of reset my nervous system. And then as I was ready to emerge and explore the rest of the country to see if I wanted to stay there or move on to Brazil like I originally planned or maybe Barcelona. Um, we got hit with the news that Covid was here and we had two days to decide whether we were gonna stay or leave because the airports were closing. And so I decided to stay. Um, and two weeks after that I met my husband, who's from here and then really decided to stay. Wait there, there's a couple things I wanna point out here. So number one, you mentioned, uh, kind of like resetting your nervous system. This has come up a lot with a lot of American expats. Did you find that you kind of, I mean, I'm sure during covid it was harder because. Everyone was thrown into anxiety and all that stuff again. But did you find that you went through a process where you kind of had to like detox from the American hyper productive, always stressed out all the time. Lifestyle? No. So I, um, had been diagnosed with P-T-S-D-A year before, so I was already exhausted. Yeah. I was already burnt out, so, so by the time I came to consider, I was already winding down and resetting and starting therapy. Um, and here it was, COVID was pretty chill. So, um, you know, we still got to go out and walk to the beach. I mean, obviously restaurants and things like that were closed. There was like a daily briefing at lunch with the president and the Minister of Health. So it was very, um, conscious here you to legally enter any building, you had to wash your hands. It was wonderful. It was great. It's interesting, I went through something similar. Um, I also was, uh, diagnosed with PTSD. Well, they didn't tell me at the time'cause it would not have been helpful at the time. They told me about a year later, after I'd already come in Mexico. Um, I worked with someone who was an expert in neuroscience for some things I was going through. Uh, also about a year before I. Got on a plane and moved to another country. So interesting. Um, and that's also coming up a lot where people were like, yeah, I was already burned out and stressed out by the, and already had realized that, and then was starting to make life changes already to account for that. And then that's how I ended up, um, in another country. There's something else that you said that's really interesting that actually comes up in the comment section a lot, uh, on this channel. And that is, uh, you mentioned that you met your husband two weeks later. I too ended up in another country because I met my husband. Mm-hmm. Um, even though he's not Mexican, he's not even Latin. He was just already doing the expat thing in Mexico. And he, like you, has already lived in multiple countries and, and all that. Uh, there's two other women that I've interviewed on this podcast who also ended up in other countries due to their husbands. And I'm seeing all this evidence, right, that there are women who are down for moving to other countries or traveling full-time, but we will see in the comment section all the time or emails that come into us from men. Um. Usually single men or sometimes married and they're having an issue with that. Mm-hmm. Uh, where they either say no, like the women are not even down for it. Like, where do you even find women who like wanna go live in other countries? I'm like, they're literally everywhere. So I don't know countries. Um, and then, because I'm so confused,'cause even in Mexico I meet women who are like, yes, gringo, come whisk me away. Let's go to a bunch of different countries. Like, what are you talking about? But we'll hear stories all the time. Usually from men, we don't hear it as much from the women. I guess they have a little bit more influence over their spouses. Um, who they can't seem to find women who are down for the adventure. Let's put it down that way. What do you have to say to those men? Because you're like the fourth woman that I interview on this podcast, you know, I guess myself included in that one who is like, yeah, no, we totally ended up in other countries because of our husbands. Or met our husbands in other countries in terms of like, if they were to, um, go somewhere in like best tips and practices to meet women that are, yeah. Meet women that are interested in that kind of a lifestyle or women mm-hmm. Who, who would be open to living in other countries.'cause a lot of them are complaining that they just can't find them. I mean, we had a conversation with one who broke up with his fiance over this, you know, that's a big, it's a big, um, difference to get over. So, um, I would say, um, getting out into the local community, um, the biggest, best tip that I would give, so last year, I'm not sure if it's made it to Mexico yet, but probably there's an app called Time Left. And so basically you do a personality test. It pair you up with five strangers for dinner on a week. Oh yeah. That does exist here in Mexico. Yes. Yes it does. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So even though I'm married, I tried it with a client that was here on tour. It's pretty cool because you get to meet, um, so the dinner was in English. So it was a mix. A good mix of Americans? No. So there was three Americans. One, uh, I think the lady was from Bulgaria and three Costa Ricans. So everybody was, um, professional or entrepreneurs spoke English. We had great conversation. So there were some platonic connections and romantic connections. There was just opportunity for all of that. What's the name of the app again? Because I think you're like the second or third person to bring up an app like this. And I think I saw someone who was here in Gule, Hara, who'd mentioned it, but for, for people,'cause we have people already in other countries. What was the app again? Time left. Time left. Mm-hmm. LEFT. All right. I'm looking that up'cause I, I had heard somebody mention it and you're the second one to bring it up and my husband and I would totally do stuff like that just, just to go meet people and have some fun. And it's so funny because the client and I, we both did our tests and I didn't realize that they, um, so the separate tables, they end up at different, different restaurants. But I think because we were like the same age born around the same time that we had, you know, similar interests is why we ended up at the same place. That's so interesting. And we'll try it for clients too because, um, as of this week we were already booking scouting tours and people are asking us like, Hey, what are like, uh, the entrepreneurial events, all that, how do you meet people? Because that's, that's a big thing when people go to another country is like, how do I start meeting people or meeting people who speak my language or integrating all those kinds of things. So, good tip. InterNations is a good one too. Which one? Intonations. Intonations. Writing that down as well. I think, uh, Justin and I have just never looked much into it because we both speak Spanish, so we just kind of integrated a lot more easily. But we're hearing that from clients and I'd, I'd heard of that first one before and I've been meaning to, to try it and test it out so we have an adventure that's important. Like when I first got here, I was a basic Spanish and my husband was a basic English, so we had to, um, you know, do a lot of work to, um, communicate and different cultures and things like that. And with Covid there were, you know, time periods where I would go 30 to 60 days without having anyone to speak English to. So it was a little isolating at first. Okay. Good to know. We'll, we'll make sure to, uh, put those in the resources section for everyone so they can check those out. For those of you who've been asking. And I'm almost positive that time left is in Guadalajara.'cause I think I've heard it mentioned before, it seems to have a pretty wide network. Okay. So definitely in Mexico City. For those of you who are listening, you can define anything in Mexico City. Okay. So now let's get into how you actually ended up starting your business, because part of what we like to highlight on this podcast is the different ways that expats make money because. I mean, some people are retired, some people can live off of investments, but not everybody. I mean, you and I are kind of on the younger side, right? Mm-hmm. Of this whole conversation. Um, so a big question that people get is, okay, well how do I make money? Most people are out here looking for remote jobs. I'm sure you're probably seeing the same thing. Most people are being forced to go back into the office, and even if the job says remote, they still want you in the United States, it's like remote from your house, not from another country. Um, so I'm sure you're seeing the same thing. So obviously the natural question people have is like, okay, well how do I make money? How do I sustain myself? And especially in countries in Latin America, because I believe Costa Rica also has a visa, uh, based on income. Um, this where they will give you the residency based on the income, and you can say what the numbers are for that. Most of Latin America, uh, is like that, and that's how you'll get residency. So. How did you end up starting melanin tours.com, because now you actually help people with relocating to Costa Rica? Yes, so as I, um, went through my process and, um, with the, so like I said, I just threw everything into storage, so the condo and just went off onto my, um, my adventure. But as I started to, um, once I decided, okay, I'm here. I've met someone, this is going well. Um, and really couldn't leave anyway because of Covid. We, our borders were closed until late October. Um. So that's not too bad. Canada was closed for two years. Girl. All the Canadians are gonna come out in the comets and be like, October, try two years. Well, it was bad enough for all the citizens to start protesting in the streets for hours. Yeah. I think Mexico was maybe close for like two or three weeks, and that's how everybody ended up here. So. Yeah. But yeah, so, um, in Facebook groups I found myself answering questions about my process. Um, and once it got to around 10 to 20 hours a week, then I started to, um, think to myself, okay, this is something that I need to monetize and, um, you know, make more efficient. So the biggest question that I got, um, besides where are all the black people in Costa Rica? Well, we'll get to that because, uh, melanin is, is in the name. So I know that that's on purpose. So we'll get to that because that is actually a, an interesting, uh, perspective that may a lot of people don't consider, but that is actually kind of important. Yeah. So, um, the, the next question was, well. Where should I, what areas should I look at? What cities should I look at? Because Costa Rica geographically is about the size of Rhode Island, but with 12 different microclimates and so much diversity. Wait, I've road trip to Costa Rica. It feels a lot bigger than Rhode Island, the hills and the mountains. It might take so long to go. My husband's road trip to Costa Rica too. I think he might be shocked to realize how small it is. Yes. So the terrain makes the trip longer. But yeah. And then there's just so many diverse areas, um, depending on what your personality is, um, weather patterns, what type of infrastructure you need, amenities. So I developed a methodology in helping people, um, narrow down based on their budget, lifestyle, and prefaces, which areas would most likely be the best fit for them. And so I actually, um, develop a quiz around that too. That's. Been pretty popular lately. That's really interesting.'cause it's kind of like before you and I were chatting, we were talking about what we were doing here in Mexico. And so do you help people with relocation? Basically all over the country because it's a smaller country.'cause in Mexico, Mexico is a huge country. Yeah. So we're like partnering with a lot of other people in specific areas.'cause it's a very big country. Yes. There's a lot going on here, but Costa Rica, since it's somewhere smaller, you can help them with relocating to any part of the country. Yes. So we cover the whole country. Um, long-term is to, um, contract guides who will um, be, so the, the plan is for me to come out of the field and guys will take, local guys will take over the tours, but yes, we support the entire country. And with that, um, once I developed a methodology, I said to myself, wouldn't it be great if somebody could create some type of experience that would allow people to view Costa Rica from the lens of, can I actually live here as opposed to, oh, that volcano is nice, or maybe I'll go to a waterfall. But what does life look like on a day-to-day basis? Right? Because visiting one place and living in a one totally different. Scenarios. Like it is, like we say, there's like tourist Mexico and there's real Mexico Costa Rica, similar Uhhuh. Okay, so let's get to the name Melanin Tours. Uh, for context, um, if you watch a lot of expat stuff on YouTube, um, I have seen, uh, expats that are literally just dedicated to talking to black people, or even subgroups, just black women, uh, into particular and helping them, uh, move to other countries, wildly popular YouTube channels, wildly popular movement that's going on right now. Um, why do you think that it's because any, anybody, anybody who's watching a lot of the YouTube stuff for expat and living in other countries and all those types of things. Yeah, I think, I think most Americans and Canadians are at least a lot of Americans and Canadians are looking at leaving. But why do you think, um, with. Black people specifically, or Black Americans, I should say. Mm-hmm. Um, it's such a freaking hot topic. Yeah. So, um, so I'm also the ad, one of the admins for the black expats in Costa Rica Facebook group. Mm-hmm. Well, we see a lot when, um, people come to the country that there is this, um, this unlearning of sorts. So they've spent, you know, all or majority of their lives, um, being so the idea that they're second class citizens or that they have to fear, um, for their lives or systemic racism. Um, but once they have unlearned those ideas and understand that once they leave the United States, they are now green, they are American. They're not black, they're not black Americans, African Americans, you are American. Um, and that comes with its own, um, uh, side conversation for another day in terms of how African Americans are treated versus Africans, but. Well, I mean, I can tell you being Latina, like just how Afro Latinos, um, and how racism and colorism and all that shit exists everywhere. Right. It just, it's a cancer on society. It just is what it is. But I actually changes once they realize you're American. But the conversation changes, uh, when you go outside of the United States. Um, and I remember, uh, a lot of people don't know this, but my first job outta college, I was teaching English as a second language and I would get a lot of people from Latin America. And by the way, that thing that you were talking about, about the black versus American, uh, I'm Cuban, right? And Cubans are typ. Well, all Latins are typically very mixed with all kinds of cultures and things and races and all kinds of stuff, right? So there's way more mixing in Latin America, as you have seen in Costa Rica. Um, and I remember, uh, the joke, right? It's not a joke, but it was like a weird thing We would notice, like for example, if we were talking to like a Cuban black person or Haitian or whatever from the Caribbean, it'd be like, you're Cuban, right? But if we were talking to like an American black person, it was like, you're black. Yeah. And it was so confusing to us, Latinos social in the United, it's so confusing. I also remember when I taught English as a second language, I guess I've been preparing for my life now for a long time. 15 years ago, I would get a lot of people from Venezuela or Mexico, mostly Venezuela, uh, at the time, uh, Cubans, uh, just all over Latin America.'cause I was in Miami and they were totally shocked as to why in the immigration papers and the whole immigration process, they were asking them about race. Mm-hmm. And I was just thinking about this recently,'cause we just did residency in Mexico. We went through the immigration process here, and I, I had the aha moment. We're like, whoa. Literally no one asked me about my race. It's not even in the paperwork. So, yeah. So to your point, right, um, yeah, race is a thing in the United States. It's a thing everywhere. Uh, but there's kind of like this, um. Latinos will notice it when they immigrate to the United States. There's like a weird kind of obsession with it. Mm-hmm. Uh, in the United States or the other experience that I had is I went to Puerto Rico on a retreat, I being the Latina, but everybody else was African American. Um, yeah. On the retreat. And when they went to Puerto Rico, they were absolutely shocked at how mixed everything was and how mixed everyone, I'm not shocked.'cause I'm Cuban and I'm Latina. I'm like, yeah, this is totally what Latin America's like, but they were from like Memphis, Tennessee, like Memphis, Tennessee is not like that. And they were like, their minds were just blown. So, I'm understanding what you're saying'cause I've seen it with, uh, my Black American friends. I've seen them literally experience it in countries in Latin America. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then recently I had a, um, consult with a new client where, and the, the question comes up a lot where a lot of most people wanna know where, like the highest concentrations of Afro descended people. Um, so through, um, systemic racism, for lack of a better term, most of the Africana Ricans are domiciled on the Caribbean coast, but you typically won't find neighborhoods, um, of. Um, I guess ethnicities in Costa Rica. So that's a thing in the us Yeah, exactly. So that is a thing in the us. Yeah. So I explained to him, I said, yeah, it's just like, he's like, yeah, I was just wondering around, I was thinking, you know how there's like a Chinatown or a Little Italy? I was like, yeah, but those places exist because of system, systemic racism, like they had to exist. So it is, isn't it great thinking about moving to a place where ev everyone's free and feels comfortable to live wherever they want? Yeah, no, it's really good that you're doing that.'cause like I've seen, I, I've seen it with, uh, my, my Black American friends and it's like a totally different experience than my black Latino friends. Not that they haven't experienced, uh, racism or colorism or any of that. It's just different. Yeah. And even still last year, one of my closest friends, uh, was visiting us here in Gu Guadalajara, and she's, you know, black American, uh, and she was like, and she travels a lot, so she already kind of knew, but she's like, yeah, the rest of the world is not like this obsessed with, with someone's race. They just see my money. Oh yeah. They just see my money. That's what we were talking about. We're like, yeah, in America it's racism and the rest of the world it's classism. No, actually, if you, um, research back theism of class of racism is classism, racism became a easier way to other. Then cla there were too many people still in because they looked the part Yeah. Racism was just an easier way to, to other people. But that's exactly what she said. She goes, oh yeah, there's inequality in Mexico and she's been to Africa and she's been all over the world. And she goes, it's just, in other countries, it's like classism, you know? Uh, it's about your money and about your status and, and all that kind of stuff. And in the United States it's more about what you look like. Yeah. And to your point, so I wanna, um, um, iterate that we don't solely only work with black clients. Yeah. So the story behind me and TAs is that, um, you typically don't see a lot of people in co of color in marketing campaigns for Costa Rica. Mm. Okay. I think for a long time it was just like the secret of like. Canadian snowbirds or like, so like white people have been coming to Costa Rica for, for decades. Yeah. 50, 60 years. Like they know the secret. And so I just wanted to create something that would highlight, um, the contributions of Afro and, and Indigenous Costa Ricans, as well as allow African Americans to see the possibility that this is an option for them. Like they're. You're wanted, you're welcome. There's space for you in Costa Rica. And it's not just for some people, they, it's open for everyone. Open for everyone. Kind of like Mexico. And I think Latin America in general is a little bit more like that. There's probably other parts of the world where not so much because of the, the culture like in um,'cause they say in, for example, in Latin America and also Europe'cause it's a very, like Americas thing. Mm-hmm. And Western thing, like, you could go and it doesn't matter where you're from, you could be a naturalized citizen, no big deal. But there's other parts of the world where that's way more challenge like in Asia, like Yeah. No matter how hard you try, you're not gonna be Asian. Like never be Japan, Japanese, you just, you're never gonna be Japanese. Right. I mean, good luck getting a citizenship in, in Asian you can get residency, but that has to do with a lot of this. Yeah. Uh, in Asia. But um, yeah, good luck ever becoming. Thai, like, it's just not gonna happen, you know? But in the America it's because everybody's so mixed already, then it's more you can become naturalized and, and all that kind of stuff. Okay, so let's get into Costa Rica specifically, because obviously it comes up a lot in the expat spaces. You are the Costa Rica expert that we have here right now. So why is Costa Rica so popular? Because I gotta be honest with you, I've been to Costa Rica, so has Justin, and we're like, yeah, no, we're going to Mexico. Not that we didn't like Costa Rica, right? We love Costa Rica. It's just we saw there was a lot more opportunity, uh, in, in Mexico, and also it was less expensive. And the, well, both residencies are pretty straightforward, so that's not an issue. Um, does uh, Costa Rica have a presence requirement for its residency? Like do you have to be, huh? I see Mexico doesn't have a presence requirement at all. So, um, I think also like tax situations and stuff like that. So there was a reason why he ended up choosing Mexico over, for example, Colombia, where he was before. And it all depends on the person and what you're looking for, but why is Costa Rica such a popular, uh, option for a lot of expats? I would say it's because, um, it is the closest step down from the US standard of living in Latin America in terms of infrastructure education. Um, the fact that there's no military is very appealing to a lot of people. Um, the different climate zones, the friendliness for me, I feel like it is the probably the easiest place or most welcoming place to learn Spanish in the world. I. I took Spanish for many, many years in the United States. Never had anyone to practice with because frankly, Spanish speakers in the US are me. One mistake is just a ridicule, but mm, everyone's very patient. They're just happy that you make the attempt. Okay, same here. Like if you make the attempt, then they will, um, be very friendly and welcoming and warm and help you and, and all that kind of stuff. So would you say it's like a soft landing for people leaving the west? Yeah. Okay. And Costa Rica has gotten more expensive, but there's still many places that are affordable. It just depends on, again, what your budget, your lifestyle, your preferences are, and. There are a lot of changes going on in Costa Rica.'cause like, like you said, I mean, the gringos have been going to Costa Rica for decades. Um, there's a lot of changes going on right now though that made some news for those who are interested in Costa Rica. So what is happening with the immigration situation in Costa Rica? Because, uh, the same day that Mexico announced that it, well, the same week that Mexico announced, Hey, no more regularization program, we're making some changes. Here came Costa Rica mm-hmm. With their own proposed, uh, changes and it was all making waves in the expat spaces. Yeah. So, um, September of last year, Costa Rica made the announcement that the tourist visa was being increased from 90 days to 180 days for category one citizens. Um, with that, as in many countries came, um. People who abuse the system. Same as here in Mexico. Yeah. Same as in all countries. There's always people abusing the immigration system. Yeah. So with that, um, people that have been coming for decades, um, as perpetual tourism, so there, I know people who have been living in Costa Rica for 20 plus years don't have residency. They literally just go to the border and do a border run of Nicaragua or Panama. Um, and, you know, it's just a, a quick turnaround. You're just in line for a couple of hours, get your new stamp and go on with your life as a short little vacation. So problem with that is, um, those people aren't, um, contributing to taxes or the national healthcare program. Which is a requirement. So taxes aren't a requirement of residency. The national healthcare is, but if you're, um, earning income through, let's say a business or if you, you know, eventually earn permanent residency and you're working, then that's, you know, contributing to the tax system, um, to help with social programs. So I feel like Costa Rica is probably one of the, um, few countries that actually does, um, put that tax revenue towards social programs and not as much lining, you know, the, the pockets of the politicians. Yeah, yeah. So, um, so there's the, the idea or the sentiment now that there are a group of people who are inhabiting the country, driving, um, gentrification and, um, inflation prices higher, that aren't really contributing to the local economy. But, um, just kind of taking advantage of it. So there was a legislation that was introduced in Costa Rica, um, like you said, to, um, stop perpetual to tourism. So it's been, um, proposed that the, um, fee for overstaying your tourist visa would be increased from 100 to$300 per month, as well as anyone who ends their tourist visa would be barred from reentry for 90 days. So, um. Mexico's been in a similar situation and we've been warning about it for a while. The same week that Costa Rica announced those changes, Mexico announced that it was ending the regularization program, which is something that is legally on the books from our understanding. But they were very, um, flexible with it during the pandemic because like you mentioned, people got stuck in countries during, uh, the pandemic and a lot of people got stuck in Mexico because, um. Mexico was one of the only countries that was open. So Mexico was like, well, we have to regularize these people. We can't have them here illegally. And then in the regularization, you did not have to prove your income because you were already living in the country. Well, to your point, people started abusing it. They would literally go to the border, um, and they would drive in. And then when you drive in, you get your seven days. Um, when you fly in, you get usually your 180, but I'll get to the tourist visa in a second. Um, but you'd get your seven days and then your visa would expire, and then they would march straight to a consulate and go ask for regularization without having to prove income. And Mexico basically said, yeah, we're not doing that anymore. Uh, that was an emergency situation. Uh, then people were abusing it. And then in terms of the tourist visas, we've been warning people for a while. We're like, stop living in Mexico off a tourist visa where you're hopping in and out every six months because now depending on what airport you go to or how the customs agent is feeling that day, they're not given those 180 days depending on what's going on. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I know you tell your clients and your people this too. Like this stuff is always changing. It's constant. Yeah. There are quite a few people who owned property in Costa Rica that were shut out and didn't have access to their, um, properties because they were on a tourist visa and didn't have the right to enter Costa Rica during the lockdown. I. So, I mean, we don't understand how people like do it and we warn people against doing it. We're like, please go get, get, you know, legal as soon as possible. Yeah. And at the very least, a digital nomad visa, at the very least, least a digital nomad, um, visa. So speaking of visas, right, what visas are actually available in Costa Rica for those who are interested in spending an extended period of time there? Or maybe,'cause now I'm thinking,'cause I just texted Justin and I'm like, uh, they only have a a day's test of one day. Do you wanna look into it to add to the portfolio? So the most popular are the, um, the retirees. So the pensionado, the investor in inversionista and the rentista. Those are the most popular and they come with the most tax benefits, but everyone doesn't, um, qualify for those. The retiree Visa doesn't have an age limit, but you need at least a thousand dollars pension per month. The requirement for the investment visa is a property, well, it could be a accumulation of pop property between, um, uh, house car business, um, of$150,000 or more. And the rentista is$2,500 a month. So there's also an entrepreneur visa so that you can get, um, as a representative of a constituted business in Costa Rica, there's student visas, like I said, the digital nomad visa. So lots of opportunity, lots of options. I'll say. What's the difference between the digital nomad visa and the rentista visa? So, the rentista historically was for passive income. Oh, okay. I think before the digital nomad, the active, it was sort of a loophole for, uh, people who, you know, were freelancers or on their own companies. But I see the shift going towards, um, that being still maintained for passive income and a push more towards, um, digital nomad visa or to constitute a business in Costa Rica.'cause if you think about it from a fiscal perspective, if you are a freelancer, um, or an entrepreneur. And you're living in Costa Rica. Yes. You're, um, spending in the local economy that tax revenue is going to another country. So for me, it seems like the government would prefer to have Yeah. Have that tax revenue in the country. And with Costa Rica, it's a pass through taxation. So we're basically tax collectors for the government. So it depends on where our clients are. So for clients that we, um, you know, help virtually or in person that are physically in Costa Rica, we, um, collect a, the IVA the, um, value added tax for clients that are in the US when we service them. Um, it's tax exempt in Costa Rica. Interesting. Right. Justin and I may have to chat with you about possibly adding it to our, uh, portfolio.'cause that's one of the things some people like, like Justin, right? Look at the whole tax situation and how it shifts things. Mexico's it can complicate things and shift things and, and all that kind of stuff. So we may have to have a chat with you eventually when we're ready to expand the, the portfolio to see how all that stuff works and see if Costa Rica's an option. Yeah. Now for those who are listening and they're like, Costa Rica's an option, how can they contact you? Uh, and maybe, maybe better question is how do you work with people? Because before we started recording, you said you had a pretty interesting, uh, weekend that you had to go solve a problem for one of your clients. Oh, yes. Yes. So our signature offer is the relocation scouting tour, and that's where most clients start with us. And, um, from there we also, uh, support our clients through real estate. So we, um, have a real estate brokerage here in Costa Rica. Um, for anybody that's wondering, you do not have to be licensed in Costa Rica, but you do have some registration requirements with certain agents similar in Mexico, but it's changing. That used to be the case in Mexico and now they're getting a little bit more, uh, strict about it, which I imagine will eventually happen in Costa Rica. Yeah, possibly. I think the reason why it's lasted this long is because all the transactions have to be, um, mediated by an attorney, ah, a licensed attorney. So there's less risk than just, you know, random people getting together and. Doing real estate sales fair. We also Fair. Fair. We also, um, residency, yeah, residency and visa advisory. Um, so this weekend, so we had a client who, uh, uh, started the residency process, um, about a year ago, so last April. And her, um, application was denied for missing paperwork, but they didn't identify what was missing her, her application was submitted online through the online portal. And so, um, she filed an appeal, which, um, literally just got denied this month. So from August to, uh, March. So she's in the country for almost a year. So Costa Rica's law is that once you have a application submitted, fully submitted, um, through in the immigration department, that you don't have to leave the country. You can and still reenter as a tourist, but you don't need to leave the country. You're not legally required to. So, um, with that, once the came back, our advice to her was, you need to get to a border asap. And so for her, the concern is that she has a dog, um, oh no, that the kids are concerned that, oh my God, what if I go to the border and then they tell me I can't come back? What happens to my dog? Because she doesn't have a health certificate. She didn't have time to get a health certificate. So we literally drove her to the Nicaraguan border. My husband escorted her through, um, the process with the denial letter to show them, hey, you know, from the moment she stepped foot in the country, she's been trying to become legal. She's not trying to game the system. Um, she went, so we contract through attorneys, um, with our residency advisory. And so, um, they showed, he showed him the letter from the, the appeal with the attorney and how it came back and everything like that. Initially they only wanted to give her a five day, um, tourist visa and it is just like, no, absolutely not. That's illegal. And so they, um, agreed to 90 days, but eventually they gave her one 20. So she's going to restart the process under the, um, entrepreneur visa and in Costa Rica.'cause I think I saw you, uh,'cause when I was posting on Facebook with the updates in Mexico and Costa Rica, you commented, um, and I think I, I, I think I read it right, where in Costa Rica, when you do the residency, it's within the country. So is the whole process in Costa Rica done within Costa Rica?'cause for example, in Mexico, you have to start the process in your home country and then you finish the process in Mexico. So previously the only category that you could start in your home country was, um, so like let's say your grandparents or your parents were Costa Rican and you were born in the States or another country and you wanted to, um, get your residency by descent, then you could go to a consulate and start that process there. Now the. After a recent hack, the government has, um, shut the ability to be able to access the immigration website where you, um, submit your application to. You can't access it outside of Costa Rica. So, um, what that means is you either have to be in Costa Rica to start the process, or you need to leave a power of attorney, um, with the, represent a legal representative in country that can do the process for you and you can help your clients with all that. That's part of what you guys do with the residency advisory and all that. What a freaking business. And the reason I know that is'cause now we're getting involved in that stuff in Mexico and one of the reasons why we wanna connect with people like you is because I know how crazy it is just to keep up with it in one country. And even just in this conversation, seeing the differences, you know, between Mexico and Costa Rica and the tax implications and how you do the process and everybody's changing their laws. Like it's, it's a little cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs if you try and keep up with all the countries at once. Um, but, and final question here, um, before I, I, you let the people know where, where they can find you, are you seeing an uptick in interest from Americans and Canadians? Because you've been in Costa Rica since 2020. So have you seen like, kind of like a, what are you seeing, Celeste? Because I get a feeling you're probably seeing the same thing We are. Yes. Um, so I. What I'm seeing is that we've hit the mainstream, um, part of the marketing bell curve. So I think 2020 was still early adopters, people that were just kind of, you know, opening their eyes to possibilities, um, loving the remote life and you know what, hey, I finally can leave and still make money and go somewhere. And now we're starting to see more everyday people that are retiring or they've been working remotely for a while, or, um, empty nesters or people who are making, um, like their second act, life changes are starting to say, you know, hey, this is actually a real possibility. Like, I saw, saw some people doing that, but I think I could actually do that with some planning. I could really do this. Yeah. You know what else I've noticed? Um, thinking about this, I think I, who I don't remember who I saw say this the other day, um, but. I was working on an interesting post about, you know, the politics in the US'cause I'm like, listen, it didn't matter who came out, our DM still would've been full of people'cause the whole thing is just like crazy right now since the two thousands. Um, but one of the things I was noticing that maybe a lot of Americans don't know is just how quickly other countries are developing. Um, because 20, 30 years ago, I know Costa Rica was totally different 20, 30 years ago than it is now, just like Mexico. Um, you look at what's going on in the Middle East, in the Gulf States and it's crazy how fast they're developing or India, how quickly it's developing or Southeast Asia or, or things like that. And I think, I think a lot of Americans who follow this kind of content and Canadians and maybe Western Europeans, um, are starting to realize, hey, wait a minute. So like. I can, like the quality of life that I was told I could have in the United States. Um, like the gap isn't so far anymore.'cause 30, 40 years ago, like it, I would say, you know, living in the United States versus living in Costa Rica or Mexico, it was a much wider gap. Mm-hmm. Uh, in terms of the quality of life that you may have been accustomed to in the United States. But now the gap is a lot smaller. And we're seeing with some countries where like, it's like flipping altogether where it's getting like harder and harder to live in the United States and Canada and Western Europe. And it's getting, and the higher quality of life is now being found, uh, in other countries. Absolutely when I, so I haven't been back to the states in almost a year, but whenever I go, my blood pressure rises at least immediately, like as soon as you get off the plane. That happens to us, except when we go to Miami. But Miami's a little different. Miami's like Latin America, so. Exactly. And it just, it feels so hard to be able to find like fresh fruits and vegetables. No matter what store I go to here, it's just so abundant. But like, I'm literally in a building on the 31st floor. Um, so even two years ago, like these high rises didn't exist. So to your point of how rapidly it's changing, so like I'm in the building on the 31st floor in a coworking area, you know, with um, great speed internet, 5G is, um, and most of the carriers gonna be covering, um, the country by end of year. There's solar, um, wind energy. Most people. Yeah. They do still think that Costa Rica's a third world country, but it's so far from it. Costa Rica is not a third world country. I have been to Costa Rica, but they also, but they also say Mexico is a third world country. And I'm like, no, not if you actually like spend time here like, have you been to the US recently? Well, I mean, that's the other thing, right? And, and you know, there's no such thing as a perfect country. It does not exist. Uh, to be clear, which is why when you were talking about the one day test for the residency, I texted Justin, I'm like, Hey, wanna add it to the portfolio? Wanna look into it? Right. Uh, because you know, Mexico's here for now, but who knows where we'll be, you know, five years or, you know, have multiple residencies for crying out loud. Why not? We're already in this whole space, in this whole world anyway. Uh, you know. Exactly. And do international business, you might as well. Um. Are you seeing any like business opportunities in Costa Rica because Mexico's crazy with the investment and business opportunity. It is nuts. Yeah, so definitely, um, there's definitely a rise in service departments here, so, um, most of the condos and high rise, they offer concierge services, so that makes it super easy for investors so they don't have to worry about, um, checking guests in, checking them out. There's 24 hour security. Um, most of the developers offer property management as well, plus it's pretty hands off for investment. Then, um, medicinal cannabis was just, um, approved or legalized two years. Oh, interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of room there. Um, always with tourism, there's always, um, great things to do there. Um, you can, you'll see a lot of laundromats, coffee shops, restaurants that are businesses that are for sale. I know those are pretty popular for, um, um, recession proof type businesses. I always tell my clients, um, come six months, let your nervous system reset, chill out, detox us. Yeah. And you'll see an opportunity. There's a lot of opportunity in Costa Rica. Girl, I hadn't even detoxed yet, and I saw opportunity everywhere. Yeah. But I think that's our, we've had this conversation like, for example with Mexicans, and maybe the same thing happens in Costa Rica where we talk to our Mexican friends and like, do you wanna know what the issue is Mexicans have no idea what they have. Yeah, right. But like the American and the Canadian with, um, the good part of the mindset is, uh, money making opportunities everywhere. You know, I'm, and I'm so tempted, I'm trying to keep myself, reign myself in, but there is, um, this little neighborhood in San Jose and it's basically think about like the most exclusive neighborhood in every metropolitan city you can think of. It's like that. And they have this little central park right in the middle of all these towers with the cafes and the wine shops. And I keep thinking to myself, oh my God, if somebody set up a charcuterie cart at this park on the weekends, you sound like me and Justin. Like, it's crazy, right? Because we just see opportunity everywhere or we talk to our, our real estate friends. I mean our friends in real estate and law and all that kind of stuff, who are Mexican, they like totally see it, right? But maybe it's like a grass is greener syndrome kind of thing too, you know, where you think like everybody else is doing better kind of a thing. And I'm like, do you? But like all the, you know, all the entrepreneurial, I should say, Americans and Canadians will come to Mexico and they just see flashes of opportunity everywhere. Um, you know, and I, I say entrepreneurial because you know, not everybody has that. Mindset. Exactly. Um, who's coming from other countries, but I think these countries are more interested in the people who either have that mindset or have the money. Yeah. Because they're like, we need people to come here and develop this place. Right. So either you bring money or you bring your entrepreneurial mindset. Preferably both. I've been saying that about, um, Africa for decades, where Africa's another place that's developing a lot. There's actually a YouTuber that I wanna get on this channel and on this podcast, and she specializes in, in Africa and she's in South Africa, Tanzania. As you can tell, this is what I do in my spare time. Mm-hmm. This is what we do. We just watch all these videos about how all these countries are developing and things Africa's another region that people do not realize how quickly it's developing. Yeah. For decades that. Africa will once again be a world power to reckon with when African Americans go back with their resources, their skills, and their knowledge, and develop Africa. And what do you see happening in Ghana? Uganda. Tanzania. We have a friend in Ghana right now, actually, she was in Mexico for a while now she's in Ghana and she's like, oh my God. So it's like you said, it's that American mindset that that's like the good part of like that American, um, I don't know if Europeans are like, Europeans are like that too actually. They are. Um, some of them. But that's like the good part of, of the mindset I would say. There's always be the dark side, but yeah, there's, there's a dark side to it, but that's like the light side. Mm-hmm. Um, to it as well where like you just walk around and you're like, opportunity, opportunity. Someone's selling a hotel. Oh God, let me go tell my real estate person, right. That I know that this hotel, somebody's looking to sell it. Does she wanna be the one selling it? Oh, the, oh, people wanna book us for scouting trips. Let's go. Like, Americans like to make money. Yeah, exactly. Um, not all of them, right. But the ones I said with that entrepreneurial and opportunity and abundance mindset, we go to other countries. I just did a post this morning, you'll see it on my Facebook. And I'm like, people who have that abundance mindset and that opportunity mindset, you could literally drop them anywhere. Yeah, exactly. And then like, and they will make money that, um, some people, they just have to, because in most Latin American countries, the governments protect. Local jobs. Yeah, of course. So that's the only way to earn income is to start a business. Right. And the thing is like the government should protect the local jobs. So we'll have a lot of people, you know, coming into our email being like, what job opportunities are available in Mexico? And we're like, good luck. Good luck. Go start a business, you'd be much easier to get a visa. Yeah. Um, that way because the governments are going to protect their own citizens as they should. They're within their right to do that. Um, and a lot of people were very upset at Mexico ending the regularization program, and I was very honest. I know you're very entrepreneurial. You're probably seeing the same thing, uh, on your end where I'm like, you have to look at it from the other country's perspective. Number one, they totally have the right to ask you how much money you're making, uh, because they want people coming to the country who are going to stimulate the economy. Yeah. Not people who are going to, you know, be a burden on the state. And in Latin American countries, maybe Costa Rica's a little bit different. There aren't that many systems to begin with. Mm-hmm. In order to be able to do that. Yeah. And then, um, well, a lot of people don't know that, um. You could be seen in the public hospitals as a foreigner and essentially skip the bill, which is what a lot of people have done. What? Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. What, how does that work? Is that legal? It is legal, it is not. Right. Um, obviously they'll try to, um, strongly encourage or make that person feel like they need to pay that bill. But if they say I don't have any money, then they have no real legal recourse to, um, you know, get those funds back. Oh my goodness. but you're probably seeing the same, I know you're seeing the same thing in Costa Rica based on the visas that they have available. Uh, yeah. People are gonna ask you about your money and how much money you have and what you have in savings and investments, and are you building a business? Are you doing something because these countries. Rightfully so, uh, need to make sure that their economies are, are stimulated because if you go stimulate their economy, um, and you know, there's a conversation to be had about when expats move, everything gets more expensive. True. Right? But there's also expats that bring a lot of value, like companies that hire locals, you know? Yeah. Or, and, and it boosts the economy for the country, which is essentially a good thing, uh, yes. For, for the citizens. So I think, um, you know, especially with Mexico, there's a lot of heat around that. Probably Costa Rica as well, where, you know, everybody gets grouped into the expat group of like the people who just come and take advantage. I'm like, yeah, but there's also people who come, like you and me, who start businesses, right? Mm-hmm. And bring money into the country and hire. Uh, locals or now we're in the process where we're starting to help local businesses with their marketing and their sales and their systems. Right. So not all expats are the same. And the governments, essentially what they're looking for is that second group. Yeah. Because that helps them. Exactly. I agree. So tell the people where they can find you if they're interested in Costa Rica. I think I saw on your page that you had a vibe check call, which I loved the name. Yeah. So, um, yeah, we just spend 15 minutes, uh, check the vibe, um, how, um, we might work together. Um, melanin tours.com and on all social channels. At Melanin Tours, again, we, um, help a variety of retirees, location independent professionals. So we don't specifically work with clients who particularly need, um, an inco income source to move. That's Amanda's lane. So for us, um, you, we can help with that. If you need an income source to move, uh, you know, Justin and I been an online business a while, we can help with that. So once you've got the income source, then you can come see us and figure out how to make the move. So we're. The implementation part of your relocation planning? I love it. And, and relocation. Um, like I said,'cause we're getting into it now a little bit in, in Mexico, like it's work. Right. And I tell people all the time, like, if I had not had Justin, uh, there's probably no way I would've bit the bullet and just like figure it out on my own. Some people like Justin can figure it out on their own and then they, you know, start imparting that wisdom, um, on other people. But I was not one of those people, so if it wasn't for him, and I tell people all the time, if you need help, pay for the help. It goes a very long way to have that support when you're doing something so massive like moving to another country.'cause you know, it doesn't matter how well you plan it, there's still gonna be levels of chaos. Yeah. And. You know, we're in a similar space now as we start to embark on multi-country living. So like when I left the US to come to Costa Rica, like I literally could just throw everything in storage and just up and move. But now I'm married, my adult daughter lives with us, so now I have to plan accordingly. I can't just throw everything in storage and just leave. There's the emotional side to it too. Um, I think we're gonna have some therapists on to talk about that because there is totally also the emotional side, uh, to moving to, to another country and to your point when you have family members and all those kinds of things. But, uh, it can all be done and there's more and more examples every single day of people who are, are doing it. It just make takes, you know, making a decision and sometimes hiring help. Exactly. Celeste, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your, well, number one, your inspiring story of how you got stuck in Costa Rica and then ended up building a whole business out of being stuck in Costa Rica. Very entrepreneurial opportunity focused mindset. I see there. Um, and again, thank you also for being an example of what I posted this morning, which is, uh, if you have that opportunity, growth abundance mindset, you're not gonna worry about money. You just make money wherever you are. It literally doesn't matter. Uh, or based on whatever it is that you're doing. And thank you for clarifying a lot of the, uh, visa updates and things going on in Costa Rica.'cause I'm sure you probably see it in expat groups as well, that every time there is a change, uh, that social media rumor mill gets very busy. So thank you for coming on to clarify it, guys. We'll have all the information, uh, in the show notes. You can also go to entrepreneur expat.com. Look for Celeste's, interview. You can find it on the podcast. You, you're watching this, you're watching it on YouTube. You'll find all the information below. Thank you so much for being here, everyone, and we will catch you on the next one.