Entrepreneur Expat
On this podcast, we connect entrepreneurial expats and aspiring expats together to build a global community of adventurous entrepreneurs. Each week we bring you a new podcast where we share our expat adventures and highlight 6 and 7 figure expat entrepreneurs on how they run a business from anywhere in the world.
Entrepreneur Expat
How to Retire in Panama with Sandra Lohr of Expat Pros Advice
👉 Take our YouTube Mastery Workshop: https://www.YouTubeMasteryWorkshop.com
👉 Need to start creating a location independent business so you can go anywhere in the world? Get started with our Get Your First High Paying Client Online Bootcamp: https://entrepreneurexpat.com/firstclient-yt
👉 Want to learn how to move to Mexico in the next 12 months? If so, click here https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/mexico
V I D E O S T O W A T C H N E X T :
Online Business Tips to Working and Traveling In Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zGH0voCyOc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j&index=2
Moving to Mexico: 10 Reasons Why We Chose to Live in Guadalajara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK23vD8_xjc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_LAY7UV78YMgms-f2e1UcwN&index=23
Tips for Moving Overseas: Top 5 Remote Work Skills That Make Money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzjCrlNAL8&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j
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Reach out to Saundra about Moving to Panama: https://expatprosadvice.com/
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Inquiries: community@entrepreneurexpat.com
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Are you interested in moving to Latin America? Either to retire there or maybe spend a little bit of time there as a digital nomad or just like literally move period? Then this episode is for you because one of the questions, or one of the countries I should say, that comes up a lot, uh, in our inbox is Panama. We talk a lot about Mexico on the channel because that's where we happen to be right now, but. Panama's a contender. A lot of people are always comparing three countries, well, four countries. They're comparing, let's say five countries, right? Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Ecuador, and Columbia come up all the time as countries that you guys are interested in. And today we're gonna be interviewing one of the experts that we know in Panama. Her name is Sandra Lore of Expat Pro's Advice, and she moved to Panama. She retired there, but she didn't like retire and rest on her laurels. She actually now helps people relocate to Panama if they are interested. She's built a network of lawyers, accountants, you name it. To help people more easily transition, uh, to Panama. She also happens to be one of our students in our YouTube Mastery Workshop where we teach people how to use YouTube for business to generate business for their companies. If you're interested in that. Go to YouTube mastery workshop.com so you'll be seeing more of Sandra on YouTube. So in this episode, here's what we talk about. We talk about the different residencies that are available in Panama and we talk about what life is like in Panama. And of course we asked Sandra about her own personal journey and how she ended up in Panama. And there's something interesting that happened to her after she moved, uh, that you guys are gonna be very. Possibly not surprised to hear, but it might be kind of like, oh, that's really interesting how a shift of environment led to this massive positive change in Sandra's life. So if this is content that you're interested in, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell. So you don't want me to. Single video that we have coming out on this channel. We got way more interviews coming out for you guys. We got a wide network of entrepreneur expats in our, uh, digital Rolodex of business colleagues. We are also building networks in multiple different countries. For those of you who've been asking about relocation that we'll be interviewing as well. Then in addition to that, we talk about how to make money online so you can go anywhere in the world. So make sure to subscribe, hit the notification bell, give this video a like, and if you're interested in helping in having a location, independent business, or perhaps optimizing the current business that you already have so that you can travel all over the world, then apply to work with us below@entrepreneurexpat.com. Forward slash apply. Both Justin and I each have over 15 years of experience in digital marketing. We know a thing or two about online business, and we are more than happy to help you and point you in the right direction. All right guys, let's get into it. Let's go talk about Panama.
Amanda Abella:Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Entrepreneur XBAT XBAT Stories series. I am here with Sandra, who lives in a country that a lot of you have been asking us about, which is Panama. And not only does she live in Panama, she actually helps people go overseas to Panama with her network of professionals. And she also does some other really cool stuff that we're going to be talking about to help you make that move easier. So thank you so much for being here and sharing your story with us.
Saundra Lohr:Well, it's my pleasure.
Amanda Abella:So, before getting into how you help people move to Panama and all that stuff, let's backtrack, because you were just mentioning to me that you started planning your move abroad in 2019. So, what prompted you to start looking at, okay, I think I need to move to another country?
Saundra Lohr:Well, actually, I had taken care of my mom for 16 years as her caretaker. And when she passed away in 2015, my anchor wasn't there in the States anymore. And I started seriously thinking about what life might look like abroad for me. And I didn't retire until 2016. I kind of shifted my practice, my project management practice, to small business owners. And nonprofits. And so I started looking at things like, what is the proximity of different countries to travel to Europe and to the US? Uh, what is the GDP look like? I'm a project manager, so I make a lot of list. And once I looking, Panama was at the top of the list and Mexico. So I visited both, and in September of 2019, I took a reconnaissance trip here to Panama, stayed for a month, went all over the country. Walked in neighborhoods at different times of the day so I could see how the character of the neighborhood would change. And then I was able to have informed decisions in my pathway to a final move here to Panama.
Amanda Abella:So, why did you pick Panama over Mexico? Because those two end up at the top of a lot of people's lists. I mean, they usually have to choose between the two, and everybody has different reasons. So, why did you pick Panama over Mexico?
Saundra Lohr:Well, for me, uh, I had spent a lot of time in Mexico and I love Mexico, but for me, Panama, having the U S dollar
Amanda Abella:Hmm. Mm
Saundra Lohr:because I don't do currency conversions. Hey, look, Amanda, I take off my shoes to count to 10. Okay. So that was not a good. Strategy for me having to convert currency all the time. And so that was one of the number one reasons.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, that's fair. A lot of people bring that up. Uh, that's one of the reasons why you have a lot of expats that go to Ecuador, too, so they don't have to deal with the currency conversion. Funny story. So, Justin and I just got married, and for the wedding gifts, we basically had to tell people, heh, talk about expat life, We basically had to tell people at number one it don't give us physical gifts because we literally have no room in the suitcase And we'll have to deal with taxes and all this stuff and number two Don't give us physical cash because then we're gonna have to go deal with the conversion So just venmo that shit. It's basically what we had to tell people when we got married For the wedding gifts because of that currency conversion that you just brought up. So, um, it's interesting because with us, it was a little bit opposite because normally when countries are dollarized, they're like way more expensive. So for us, we're like, we're getting a sweet deal over in Mexico. And then, you know, you just get used to the currency conversion or there's apps like. Y's that make it easy to transfer the money, or you learn how to deal with the ATMs. But to your point, that's like another hoop to jump through that a lot of people maybe don't want to jump through.
Saundra Lohr:Exactly.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, so it's funny that you bring that up because we literally had to tell people about the currency conversion at our wedding and not to give us cash. Okay, so That's interesting. You mentioned GDP. Why were you looking at the GDP of countries? Because I hear a lot of things from people on this channel about what they're looking for, and GDP does not come up very often, but I respect it. So why were you looking at GDP?
Saundra Lohr:I'm a project manager, so it's always important for me to know what's the budget. You know, when I start any project, how are you going to fund and sustain growth in economic vitality? How are you going to take care of your business? And more importantly, what does trade and commerce look like and what are the hurdles? And, you know, everybody knows about the Panama Canal. And so that was a big win because it accounts for a huge portion of the GDP of the country. And, you know, the other thing to Amanda is Panama has a vast land area, but there are only four and a half million people here.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, are you finding, because this is what we're finding in Mexico, um, are you finding that the economy over there is booming while, for example, economies in the United States or Canada or France or Germany are literally crashing right now?
Saundra Lohr:Absolutely.
Amanda Abella:Yeah.
Saundra Lohr:you know, part of that is there are over 100 international banks here in Panama, largely to do with the canal, but tourism, uh, commerce and trade are the engines that drive economic growth and stability here in the region. And in fact, Panama is the most stable of all of the Central America, uh, Central American countries. And, of course, it's very cosmopolitan and very international, much like Mexico City.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that either. Justin's been to Panama, we've had friends go visit Panama on their own missions to see where they want to go. Ultimately, they also chose Mexico, but they're like, Panama City is like, Miami. Like, it reminds me a lot of Miami, in a lot of ways, and I'm like, yeah, there's really cosmopolitan cities in, in Latin America. And I think a lot of the neighbors to the north don't know that, because we'll get a lot of comments for Mexico, specifically. They think everything's just like, deserts and tumbleweeds and violence everywhere. And I'm like, no, we have some very cosmopolitan, high level international cities in Mexico, and that always shocks people.
Saundra Lohr:And a lot of people don't know that we have a John Hopkins affiliated hospital here in Panama City and a Mayo Clinic affiliated hospital here at the Panama Clinic here in Panama City. And so a lot of that emerged because the U. S. was here for such a long time, you know, developing the canal and so the infrastructure grew. With their presence and, you know, so many people moved here, you know, from the Caribbean, from China, from Canada, from everywhere, honestly. And so it is global in that is represented here.
Amanda Abella:Talk about health care for a second, because I know that's a massive concern, uh, for our audience. I mean, no one needs to tell anybody twice that health care in the United States is a problem. We also have a lot of Canadians who complain about their health care. They're like, yeah, it's low cost, but it's trash. We'd rather go get the quality care in Mexico. For example, we've had a lot of Canadians tell us that, uh, in the comments and in the conversations that we're having. So what is the health care like? in Panama because I know that's a big concern for people.
Saundra Lohr:So, for expats, it's a 3rd of the cost of what he was spent in the US. 1st of all, for doctors visits for you team procedures and actually, um, you can. Subscribe to a health care plan here for literally pennies on the dollar. I'm 69 this year and I pay 127 a month for a full coverage policy with a hospital coverage as well as a doctor's visits. And I pay 69 a year for cancer policy. And of course I'm very healthy and a cancer free. So, you know, when you're healthy, uh, it's a lot cheaper, even if you have preexisting conditions though, because I speak to other expats who do have preexisting conditions and they all say how much cheaper it is to not only go to the doctor, go to the hospital, but if you're on a retirement visa, your prescriptions are 25 percent less. then a normal person would pay.
Amanda Abella:Oh, we're going to get to visas in a second. Hold on. Because I was going to ask you about that. Because every country has their own way of doing visas and I know that Panama's retirement visa comes up a lot in the expat spaces. But I want to go back a second. You mentioned something about how you're healthy. Are you finding that it's easier to be healthier in Panama? Like, generally speaking?
Saundra Lohr:Absolutely. Uh, the food sources are a lot cleaner environmentally. Uh, our chickens don't weigh 300 pounds because they aren't pumped full of hormones. Uh, know, um, uh, pork is lean, chicken is lean. There's an abundance of fish, obviously with the, you know, Atlantic on one side and the Pacific on the other. And so, but fresh produce, I can get a pineapple all day long for 1. 50.
Amanda Abella:how we are with mangoes in Mexico, like mangoes all day long, or watermelon all day long. We just came back from spending a month, um, well, three weeks in the United States, and when we, we know this every single time we go back, and every expat says it, but I was making breakfast for us, and we were eating the eggs, and I was like, oh my god, these eggs don't taste like Eggs and the fruit does not taste like fruit the food in the united states tastes like nothing Or it tastes very salty or very sweet because they have to add so much to it to make it taste like something
Saundra Lohr:That's
Amanda Abella:i'm like what on earth is going on here We gained like 15 pounds just from being there like three weeks granted It was the holidays and we were indulging as well and honeymoon But still like if I ate the way I eat in mexico in the united states, i'd be like 300 pounds Yeah,
Saundra Lohr:of eggs. I just want everyone to know I get a dozen eggs here in Panama for about a dollar 50, two Oh three. And if they're cage free, two 59 or two 75. So, you know, our eggs are, are, you know, They're not in a refrigerated section. They're across from a refrigerated section, but they're not in a refrigerated section like most U. S. eggs are.
Amanda Abella:yeah, we actually found out why that is. My husband did. I think in the United, there's some sort of coat that the eggs have. And in the United States, they remove that coat for some reason. I don't know why, but for example, in Latin America, or we've also interviewed expats in Europe, like in Spain, it's the same thing that eggs are not refrigerated and neither is the milk until you open.
Saundra Lohr:Yes.
Amanda Abella:then you got to go refrigerate it and people are like, Whoa, what's going on here? And I'm like, yeah, it's different. It's cleaner. They don't mess with it as much. Um, you know, and do you find and actually don't know this about Panama City? Do you find that it's walkable? Because for example, here in Mexico. Okay.
Saundra Lohr:I don't have a car. I haven't driven since March of 2021. And so I walk everywhere. On average, I am walking two or three miles a day. And there are two supermarkets in my neighborhood, a park, and it's something that resembles a boardwalk that's called the Santa Costera. It's a little over four miles long. It's like a Uh, in the Panama Bay, and that's the main thoroughfare that people walk to and from, you know, cyclists, uh, uh, skaters, uh, kids, benders.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, Latin American cities, uh, and European cities, and most cities in the world, actually, have really good urban planning, which you don't see, like, this, you'll find this funny, too, like, my husband and I were walking from my parents house to the supermarket, and it was, like, a 20, almost 30 minute walk, and we're, like, if we were in Mexico, right, we would have already, in 10 minutes, here in Mexico, we've already passed, like, Two places, oh no, three places where we can go get fruit, vegetable, meat, uh, stuff for smoothies, beans, like whatever we need to eat and sustain ourselves, we would have walked by three of those. Already in 10 minutes. And in addition to that, we would have walked by hair salons, barber shops. Um, what else? There's just so much in the neighborhood. Dentists, doctors. Uh, it's just so much more like the, the neighborhoods are built in a way where you don't have to walk more than 10 minutes to get whatever you need,
Saundra Lohr:Yes.
Amanda Abella:which obviously contributes to the healthy lifestyle. We also walk to our gym. Our gym is a 10, five to 10 minute walk. From the house. So it's easy.
Saundra Lohr:rises in Panama City have leisure areas, including gyms and yoga, Pilates rooms, uh, pools, uh, jacuzzis, steam room, you know, we have a racquetball court. I have all of that in my building.
Amanda Abella:Yeah. Same with the high rises in Mexico. We live in a house, so it's a little bit different. So, but the thing is like, we can walk to our gym every morning and it's a non issue. It's a five minute walk. And then we're working with our trainer and we just come right back. So I was curious if it was, that's why I asked, because I'm like, yeah, expats will tell us that it's just easier to have a healthier lifestyle. outside of the United States because of the way the cities are built, because of the food quality, uh, because healthcare is more accessible, like you just don't have to work as hard at it.
Saundra Lohr:And thus, the stress level is a lot different. I have not been stressed since I got moved into my apartment. April 1st of 2021. I had been a smoker for 40 years by April 5th. I quit smoking. Just quit cold turkey, you know, and so because my stress level just dropped to 0 and, you know, we just are happy, you know, they, they have a saying here, tranquilo, and it really is
Amanda Abella:Tranky, tranky, tranky. Yeah.
Saundra Lohr:Yes,
Amanda Abella:Yeah, well, congratulations on quitting smoking. That's first and foremost. That's a huge fee. And number two, um, sometimes, you know, that sounds like sometimes what we tell people, even in our business coaching settings, and you'll see that in our YouTube mastery workshop next week. Sometimes we have to tell people like, sometimes all you really need to do in order to change your life is just change your environment.
Saundra Lohr:that's
Amanda Abella:Like you don't have to go through all these complicated things. You just need to change where you are.
Saundra Lohr:And part of that is your mental focus. And so, you know, once you decide that you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, then you can actually begin to formulate a plan and take some, uh, cognitive steps that will help you reach the goals that you aspire to.
Amanda Abella:We'll swing back around to that in a second because I know you have very unique ways of helping your clients do that who are interested in Canada, Canada. Listen to me. No one's interested in Canada right now who are interested in Panama. Um, so we'll, we'll swing right back around to that, but I want to touch on the visas momentarily. So what visas are available in Panama for those who are interested in making Panama their new home.
Saundra Lohr:Well, there are several different types of visas. Uh, one is the friendly nations visa, which allows families with dependent children under the age of 18 to move to Panama and to qualify. You must either buy a Panama business or create one. Or be employed in a professional capacity for a Panamanian professional services company. That guarantees you immediate, permanent residency, the Friendly Nations Visa. That's a very, very common one. The next one is a professional employment visa where foreigners working in a professional capacity and paying social security for those who aren't yet retired and hold a college degree and some type of professional license, they can become a permanent resident after two years. and then the Panama business investor visa, uh, requires a minimum of, I think, about 160, 000 dollars in capital stock in a Panamanian corporation as a shareholder or an officer. and then there's a remote workers visa, and a lot of people use that, especially entrepreneurs
Amanda Abella:I was gonna ask, yeah.
Saundra Lohr:and take a look. It's like getting a drive by look at a country and come for a while. And if I hadn't been ready to retire, that's probably the 1 that I would have chosen
Amanda Abella:How long is, how long is that visa for? Because we have people of all age, uh, age brackets that listen to this channel. So how long is that visa for?
Saundra Lohr:about six months and there are some, there are some requirements, you know, kind of like a visitor's visa where you have to leave after a certain amount of time. And a lot of people will just jump over to Columbia or over to Costa Rica and then come right back. But the good news is Amanda. We have an attorney on our team who handles all of that. So I don't have to practice law without a license. I'll just send an email to Italy's Giro is her name and then introduce the client, our client to our team member, whether it's for real estate or legal or mental health, and then they take it from there.
Amanda Abella:Let's talk about men,
Saundra Lohr:is the
Amanda Abella:oh,
Saundra Lohr:that I'm here on, which is the pension out of our retirement visa. And so for that one, you have to have a lifetime pension, like social security of at least 1, 000 a month, or you can have. An annuity pension from a private bank, insurance company, or a trust, and then two hundred, two hundred and fifty dollars per month for each dependent. Uh, so if you're caring for a child who is differently abled, they are getting some type of disability coverage, then that is factored in to your payment. You know, your overall visa as well. But again, our attorneys are very fluent in the
Amanda Abella:yeah.
Saundra Lohr:immigration process.
Amanda Abella:And this stuff changes all the time. Yeah, and these things change all the time, which is why we tell people, you know, Don't try and do this yourself without a lawyer like theoretically. Yeah, sure you could and you could figure it out But this stuff is constantly changing because the world is constantly changing just pay people where it's like their literal job to Be on top of all this so you don't have to worry
Saundra Lohr:and since I've been here, Amanda, Panama, the government of Panama changed the friendly nations visa, and then 3 months later, changed it back.
Amanda Abella:I mean, Mexico's requirements for, uh, temporary residency and permanent residency, and I'd be interested to hear the numbers, just to compare, and so people can hear as well, so they can compare. I mean, it goes up every year,
Saundra Lohr:Yeah,
Amanda Abella:so, I mean, they're constantly changing the thing, uh, and I think a lot of people don't realize, and it's one of the reasons why we tell people, look, if you want to go, start making a plan and start executing on it now, because, you know. And we've seen this happen where people are like, Oh man, I'm priced out of Mexico now. And we're like, yeah, we've been trying to tell you guys because everything's constantly changing in the world. A visa that's available now may not be available next year and so on and so forth. So it's not one of those things that you can like, just sit on if you're very serious about it, because these things are constantly changing. I'm interested in hearing the numbers so we can compare Mexico to Panama and again to anybody listening this stuff is constantly changing. So these are just like Ballpark numbers based on the information that we have available right now So for example in Mexico if you're gonna do I guess their version of the pension a low visa Which is a permanent residency if you are retired, I think it's almost 300, 000 that you need to have in some sort of Retirement account or something like that and then how much is it in Panama?
Saundra Lohr:So there is no set amount that you
Amanda Abella:Okay.
Saundra Lohr:have in an account. What you do have to have is proof of a lifetime
Amanda Abella:Uh,
Saundra Lohr:And so
Amanda Abella:okay.
Saundra Lohr:Security or Disability Security, uh, disability program that's offered through social security offers that okay now if you're outside of the u. s I don't think that Medicaid and I'm sorry Medicare and SSI Benefits are the same But we do have a checklist Amanda that we have on our website where you can use a global index And look at all the countries and what their, you know, um, income requirements are and a lot of, you know, and
Amanda Abella:Ooh, I love that.
Saundra Lohr:Yes, we have 1 for moving that covers your finance, how to get your moving, how to do, you know, talk to your friends and neighbors. That's part of the mental health checklist. So we have 2 separate digital products that will help people go through the process and not miss any details.
Amanda Abella:One of the things that I love about what you're doing, um, and I, this is because, you know, you ran your own, you were, you were a project manager, so I already know how your brain's working. Okay. But it's like, yeah, you know, I'm like retirement age, but I saw this, like, need in the marketplace, and I'm so gonna make more money, even though I'm retirement age. Um, which I think is a really good example, because I think sometimes people think, and there's nothing wrong with this, but sometimes people think, Oh, I'm just gonna go to another country, retire, and like, I don't know, like, Do nothing right and I'm like how and maybe it's my age, right? I'm like, how realistic is that but it might also be a personality
Saundra Lohr:Well, and, and, you know, you, you, you'll get bored after
Amanda Abella:Yeah
Saundra Lohr:And so even when I retired in the fall of 2023 from my management practice, by then I had started expat pros advice because I realized that there were a lot of people on Facebook getting misinformation. And being scammed mainly in real estate and in the legal process So that's what made me decide to vet those professionals take them through the ringer Put them on a team where I could give people qualified professional advice And so, you know sure you can do it on your own But we've tried to shortcut some of those processes where you spend the most time and that's in your legal Applications and in acquiring or even renting real estate
Amanda Abella:Yeah
Saundra Lohr:the other things, just kind of as we would say in New Orleans, as a lanyard. So we have an Airbnb, we have doctors, dentists, insurance professionals, a personal driver. My personal driver will pick you up from the airport, take you wherever you need to go. So we just put a team together to cover all the things that I had to bet on my own when I first came.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, you guys are listening. If you're interested in Panama, right, and you have all those things that you need to figure out and when you were talking about the, the lawyer and like the immigration process, it's funny because I was making a joke with my family the other day, uh, because we just got married, we had to get the marriage license, now we had to get the marriage license apostled, and now we got to send that to immigration, and I was like, I have spent way too much time in government buildings the last two years. Because that's just how it is. When you decide that,
Saundra Lohr:but our lawyers will go with you. Okay, in fact, I'm doing my own personal last will and testament. And so the lawyer on our team is doing it and has to be translated into Spanish because it's a Spanish speaking country. So I have to pay for the translator and I have to pay for the notarization of the documents and, um, you know, the legal fees, which are
Amanda Abella:yeah,
Saundra Lohr:honestly,
Amanda Abella:it's not that much.
Saundra Lohr:wanted my will to say. But you do have to have those things apostille. And or notarized, but the good news is our attorneys team will go with you so that you don't have to worry about translating. You don't have to worry about. How do I get there? It's Uber going to drop me off at the right place. No, we take you. We stay with you and make sure you're good.
Amanda Abella:And that's fantastic, and, and me as a fluent Spanish speaker, uh, in Mexico, and my husband as a fluent Spanish speaker, because he learned Spanish living in Colombia, um, We still had attorneys, right? And even though, I remember being at the tax office, because that was a whole other legal thing we had to figure out here. And, um, I speak Spanish fluently and I still couldn't understand half of what they were saying because of like, jargon or the way the system works and you don't know how the system works. So, I was telling people, you know, that I met at the immigration office last month. Uh, there were a couple of other Americans that our attorney was working with and they were at the immigration office as well. And they were like, oh my god, thank god, I have hired an attorney to do this. And I was like, yeah, I speak Spanish and I would still hire.
Saundra Lohr:Yeah,
Amanda Abella:attorney to do this just because I don't understand the system in this country
Saundra Lohr:That's exactly right. And, you know, that's what I was seeing people get ripped off because they would take a referral from Facebook. I'm like, well, what work for one person may not work for another. And so, you know, our legal team is able to do a business for you, set up a foundation or a nonprofit. If you want to do that here, they specialize in maritime law. You know, they have 83 different disciplines and professionals with over 100. 40 years of experience on their legal team. And so, you know, I vetted them thoroughly and they've been working with us consistently and handling all of our client referrals.
Amanda Abella:That's amazing, right if somebody else already did the work for you just pay them
Saundra Lohr:Yes.
Amanda Abella:entrepreneurial lesson make money faster lesson life lesson. If somebody else already did the work just pay them
Saundra Lohr:Yes. for the expertise. You don't go, you know, you don't look on YouTube to do heart surgery. You go find a cardiac surgeon and
Amanda Abella:So let's, exactly. So let's talk about something very unique that you have on your team, because part of what we're doing here on Entrepreneur Expat is, you know, we can help people with Mexico. We know lawyers, real estate agents, all that kind of stuff, because this is where we're at, right? So we can do all that stuff for Mexico, but obviously people are interested in a lot of other countries, uh, Panama being one of them. So one of the things that we started doing is we started reaching out to people such as yourself who are in other countries who can help with that relocation process so that when people come to us and they're like, Hey, I want Panama. Okay, well, now I know I just send them over to Zandra, right? One of the things I like about you is that you have this very unique aspect. On your team that quite frankly, I haven't heard a lot of people talk about and it's extremely important as someone who just, uh, you know, her whole life changed on a dime and she was moving to another country when I heard you say this, I was like, Oh, yeah, that probably would have been helpful because, um, I think what people don't realize is even if you move to another country and you want to move to another country, I honestly felt like I went through like an emotional detox for like six months. I was so emotional the first six months and we realized I was kind of like detoxing from what life used to be and now my life is totally different. I think that's common for most people. They don't talk about that very much. Everybody just talks about, Oh, it's so great. It's so amazing. And it's true, but there's like this very emotional process that occurs and you actually have mental health professionals on your team to help people with that aspect of the transition. So can you speak more to that? Thank you.
Saundra Lohr:Well, I know for myself, I'm an only child. And once my mother passed away, you know, having a small family, I didn't have a large extended family. So it wasn't that much of an emotional toll for me. But I did reach out to my close friends and some of my clients who have become friends. And I just, you know, walk through my mental health process with them. That helped me to realize. That I needed to put that professionalism on my team. So we have a mental health therapist on our team, Jennifer Hippolite. She started as a child school counselor. Working with with kids, and that was one of the things that I was immediately attracted to because when you move your whole family, including your kids or your grandkids, they may be going through some type of stress as well, because they're leaving behind their institutions, their friends, their network, their playground, buddies, and whatever that looks like. And so I thought it was important for us to have a licensed mental health therapist. our team who could address those emotional needs. And so we have a guide that we have developed. That's called reliving and, you know, we stress that living abroad is a journey of discovery. And it allows you to experience the world through a lens of curiosity and transformation, but with that comes some fear and some anxiety and some trepidation. so when we recognize that when you uproot yourselves and land in a different country, you're going to learn resilience, adaptability, and the art of embracing change, and you're going to be scared out of your mind. While you're doing it properly. And so reliving will give you the tools that you need to help reduce that stress and manage your mental health and find some space to just breathe the move abroad. And so our team handles the entire move, the emotional part. The legal part, the financial part, which is banking and real estate, so that you can just focus on, Oh, I want to go hug a sloth or I want to go to monkey island or whatever that looks like. And so we will help you assess, explore, discover, and then take inspired action because, you know, you have the tools to make the move.
Amanda Abella:That is so good, because, you know, we'll have a lot of conversation, well, for two reasons, right? Number one, it's kind of what I said. Like, I think moving is one of the top three most stressful things in someone's life. I think it's moving, a death in the family, and public speaking. Um, and, so, if moving across town is stressful, imagine moving to another country, and add the level of stress.
Saundra Lohr:the
Amanda Abella:you don't speak the language, you don't know the system, you're adapting, you're learning things, and on top of that, it's like I said, in my case, you know, I was so stressed out living in the United States that it's, I went through like a whole detox kind of a thing, and it took my husband about six months to figure out why I was so emotional and what I was going through. He's like, oh my god, you're detoxing. Because you were so stressed for so many years that now your body is just like releasing, um, all this stuff. And we did have therapists and shamans and things like that that we worked with and, you know, they would check in on us. And they're like, hey, are you guys okay? Because like moving to a whole other country, that's like not a small thing. Right? Are you guys okay? Um, so to your point, you know, I think it's great for that reason because even if somebody does want to move abroad, I To your point, trying to navigate things in another country is stressful in and of itself. Even if it's good change, it's still change, and that tends to stress us out.
Saundra Lohr:Amen to that. you know, thank God I had the skills of a project manager, so I was used to handling conflict on teams, and I just applied all of my education and knowledge to my own project, because moving abroad is a project. And once I started to treat it like a project, then I was able to use all this knowledge and all these books and things that I have on project management to really develop my checklist. And my sticky notes and you know, all the things so I can say, thank goodness. It was seamless. Yes.
Amanda Abella:and the second reason why I think that's a really great idea is because We'll talk to a lot of people, right, who say they want to move abroad, they can't stand life in the United States or Canada anymore, for whatever reason, or Europe, or insert country here, for whatever reason, it's not for them, and they want to go somewhere else, and I think for a lot of people, it still is like this wish, right, it's still like this dream, but no one's actually executed because they're too scared. To actually take the steps to actually do it. So I think in that case, you know, if you're saying you want this thing really bad and I'm bringing like our business coaching experience into this because we'll see it with clients sometimes, you know what I mean? Where it's like you say that you want this thing and you say you want it really bad, but something's holding you back from actually doing the damn thing and getting the result. And in those cases, sometimes it's not about. Working harder, doing the damn thing. Sometimes in those cases, it's going to get, you know, the assistance of some sort of mental health professional to figure out why they're sabotage or why there's no execution or what's actually going on there. Because sometimes it's deeper than what it looks.
Saundra Lohr:And so that's why we, we help all of our clients to Segregate their wants from their needs and then once we're able to do that, then we focus on what they want and we check that off. And then we focus on what they need and we check that off. And a lot of people, once they see what they need, they have a different assessment of what they want
Amanda Abella:Yeah.
Saundra Lohr:come first.
Amanda Abella:Mm, that's really smart. I could see all the project management stuff coming out like all the structure and all the lists and I could totally see it's a good skill to have. So,
Saundra Lohr:And you know, when you, when you get off the plane and my personal driver's there holding up your card with your name on it and you go to your hotel and we help you, you know, curate an itinerary. So, you know, then you can just relax because you know, what time you're going to meet with the lawyer. You know, when the real estate person is going to come and show you some apartments, you know, the best restaurants and things and the amenities and the shopping. And, and so, you know, you really can be like on vacation, but it's a fact finding vacation.
Amanda Abella:right, and you know you're taken care of,
Saundra Lohr:Yes.
Amanda Abella:you know, like everything's
Saundra Lohr:of it.
Amanda Abella:You know, you're taking care of and you don't have to stress about a bunch of extra stuff, or at least the stress has been minimized as much as humanly possible. Um, what advice do you have for people who are on this channel who are still in that dreaming wishing phase, but not in the execution phase? And the reason why I ask is because as a project manager and someone with so much project management experience, your whole MO is execution and helping other people execute.
Saundra Lohr:outcome.
Amanda Abella:Yes. So what's your advice for those people who are stuck in the dreaming, but they're not actually, uh, executing?
Saundra Lohr:Well, actually, for those people, we publish two free, we publish a free newsletter every quarter. I've got the winter edition, which is currently out, and the fall edition. And in both newsletters, I give you a glimpse of our team. I talk about housing. I talk about medical costs. I talk about specific neighborhoods. Uh, I talk about some of the sites and some of the things. So, the way that I started out, I read everything I could get my hands on. Um, and so I would advise people to, you know, align themselves with information that's been verified. Uh, look at the embassy sites for the country that you're interested in. Uh, go to our site and get our newsletter so that you, you know, have at least some of the things that are most typically asked when someone's contemplating a move abroad. And then do, do the research, do the work.
Amanda Abella:Okay. Also, question, this is based off of my business coaching experience. What do you say to the people who've been researching, researching, researching? They know all the things, but they're still, they're stuck in that researching phase. There's still no, like, actually doing the thing.
Saundra Lohr:Well, you have to take a step. Whether that step is to call an embassy and set an appointment with an embassy official over the phone or go to your local consulate and see what the apostille process looks like, go ahead and get your FBI background check, get your passport, make sure you have a copy of your birth certificate, a letter from your bank that says that you banked there. I mean, just do something, pick one thing. And do that 1 thing, and then the next day, pick 1 other thing or develop a list and just go down and check off the things as you do them. But at some point, you have to take action. And that's why we say that in our reliving process, after we assess and explore and discover, we inspire action and whether that is. Well, this requirement is going to change in six months, so you might want to do this now. Whatever that looks like so that you aren't in this perpetual cycle of indecision.
Amanda Abella:That's so good, because I think what gets most people stuck is that perpetual cycle of indecision, where it seems like this giant, overwhelming thing. I'm lucky, I had my husband, he'd been doing the expat thing for ten years, and he'd done it in different countries, so like, to him, it's like, easy. He's like a pro at it, but if you don't have that, Then, taking that one step, that one action, every single day, that's what's really gonna make the difference over time. And I think the important thing here is, is the urgency. Right? Because as we were saying earlier, everything's constantly changing. Uh, this is not one of those things that just stays the same from one year to the next. You could be interested in one country today and then next year it's out of reach. For whatever reason, because they changed a visa or whatever. So I would say use that urgency to your advantage. Cause I think what happens to people sometimes is they don't realize just how much all these things change and how variable all of this is at all times. Because a lot of people don't realize, and this is like a little joke that I have, uh, we're all extras in a giant game of risk. That all the countries are playing globally. And when all these leaders of all these countries are playing risk, because that's what they're doing, every single one of them, uh, that trickles down and affects things like visa process and requirements, and things like that. Look at all the immigration insanity going on, you know, ever since the United States now got, Uh, new leadership, uh, which could affect, you know, immigration situations in other countries, you know? So, because we're always extras in a game of risk, then you don't really have the luxury to just sit around and wait.
Saundra Lohr:And that's why in our name, expat pros advise. Because we're going to empower you to make an informed decision because irrespective of where you're thinking about moving, the checklist really stays the same. Hire a lawyer, look at the real estate market, look at the economy. And so that's why we provide some global index links and things like that. So that no matter where you're looking, because, you know, Mexico and Panama may be at the top, but people are looking at Portugal. They're looking at Spain and they're looking at Croatia. And in fact, I'm going on a cruise in June to Oslo and Copenhagen and Latvia and Lithuania. I've never been to Eastern Europe, but I want to go and see so that I can advise people on what I've found.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, Eastern Europe, my, my husband's Ukrainian on one side, so he's like, I gotta wait for things to calm down over there in Eastern Europe with the war right now, but once that's settled He's like, I have to take you to Eastern Europe. Like, Eastern Europe is basically like, Western Europe's great, but it's kind of overrated. Eastern Europe is what's really interesting, is what he tells me.
Saundra Lohr:go. That's
Amanda Abella:Yeah.
Saundra Lohr:to go, because, um, I have been to Western Germany, but I'm going to fly into Berlin
Amanda Abella:Yeah.
Saundra Lohr:from Rostock, Germany.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, he's excited to one day, when things calm down over there, take me to Ukraine, where his family's from, and Eastern Europe, and all that kind of stuff. He loves Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe and most people that I know who've gone to explore Eastern Europe say the same thing. They're like, Western Europe's cool and all, right, but kind of overrated
Saundra Lohr:And I've
Amanda Abella:in comparison.
Saundra Lohr:We've all been so many times. We've done Rome and we've done Spain and, you know, in May, I was in Portugal, Spain, Italy and France and Sardinia. So, you know, I mean, how many times can you do that?
Amanda Abella:Right, how many times can you do that same like, uh, I'm thinking of the word in Spanish, um, English word, English word, what is it, route, route? How many times are you going to do that same route before you're like, hey, I would like something a little bit different? Uh, Yeah, something different that's still European, but like a different flavor of European. And as someone married to an Eastern European, I can attest to the fact that Eastern Europe is definitely a different flavor than Western Europe, but European the same. Alright, thank you so much for being here and sharing your story and having done all this work for people who are interested in Panama. We'll make sure to have all the links to everything. Uh, below. So whether you guys are interested in the reliving process or you're like, Hey, I'm ready to go to Panama. I've been thinking about it for a while. Hey, I'm going to go hire her because why would I make this more difficult for myself when I could just hire Sondra? So thank you so much for coming here and sharing all this valuable. Information with people because it can get very confusing out here. One final question. Actually, I didn't think about asking you this because we've been asking a lot of people this. I know you've got lawyers in Panama, but can you? Because this is something that comes up with us a lot, especially the entrepreneurial ones on the investors, which is how do I set up my tax situation in the United States for when I'm abroad?
Saundra Lohr:So, one of the things that Panama is very widely known for is that if you, your business is based in the U. S. and you live here, you are not doubly taxed. In other words, you just pay taxes in the U. S. And if I were still in my business, my schedules would have schedules because I'd still be writing off everything that I could, especially given the new administration's focus to raise taxes on working class people and business owners. So, if you live here. And your business is located in the U. S. You do not pay taxes here in Panama on that money. Okay. Now, if you decide to set up an affiliate or an extension of your business here, that's where our lawyer and her tax. Because she has economists on her team, you know, and, and once you go to our website, you'll be able to go to her law firm and see all of the different disciplines that she is able to offer an aspiring expat advice on. So we got you covered, you know, our saying is we're expat pros advice and we're here to help.
Amanda Abella:That's really good, because I think a lot of American expats don't realize how complicated the U. S. tax system is until they're trying to not live there anymore and they're still getting taxed.
Saundra Lohr:Yes. Yes.
Amanda Abella:And then they're like, oh snap, and I'm like, yep, there's a whole process to go through in the United States and then picking the right country so that it doesn't mess you up in taxes.
Saundra Lohr:That's exactly right.
Amanda Abella:Yeah, that's a very shocking surprise to a lot of people, unfortunately. Uh, sometimes, because the U. S. has citizenship based taxation, not residency based taxation, so I'm happy to hear that there's people on your team who can help with that, because that, that can get a little complicated.
Saundra Lohr:Yes. Yes, and fortunately for me, I was retiring and with expat pros advices based in the US, but there's no fee for my services. You pay the attorney, you pay the real estate firm, and they pay me a small permission. So there is no upfront cost to interact with me, unless you want to buy our digital checklist, and they are very under 20. And then our reliving e course is gonna, I haven't priced it yet, but I think it's going to be around the 39. 99 area because I'm not doing this to get rich. I'm doing this to help people so that they don't get scammed. And you know, the lawyer, it's incumbent on her to pay me a small commission and the real estate firm so that our clients aren't spending a bunch of money with me. You know, they're spending under a hundred dollars for all of our tools and they work together. Congruently, and then work with the professionals. And then if they choose not to work with our lawyer, okay, fine, you know.
Amanda Abella:We're going to help you make a lot of ebook sales and, uh, backroom commissions, right? With our YouTube mastery workshop, because I foresee this just taking off
Saundra Lohr:Well,
Amanda Abella:in the next few years, and we're going to we're going to help you capitalize on that for sure.
Saundra Lohr:Well, it's going to
Amanda Abella:To
Saundra Lohr:to continue working with you. I look forward to all the good things that we're going to be able to do together. So that the expat journey is not so scary. It's not the scary house. It's the fun house.
Amanda Abella:It's super fun. It's super fun. It's why I always tell people, like, out of all the entrepreneurial projects we do, and the channels we have, and the digital marketing we do, we work primarily with business owners on their marketing and sales. And yeah, sure, those conversations are fun. We love to teach people like you, you know, how to really set up their YouTube channels so that their businesses become easier. Love it, right? But, our favorite content to create is the expat content, because it's the most fun.
Saundra Lohr:Yeah. All
Amanda Abella:It just changes your whole perspective on life and you get to have really interesting conversations like this one. Alright guys, so we will have the information for everything below. Um, is there anywhere that they can reach out to you directly, just your website? Or do you have an Instagram, Facebook, any of that stuff?
Saundra Lohr:of those. And so if they just Google expat pros advice, our website comes up and then at the bottom of our homepage or links to all of our profiles and Instagram and tick tock and all of that, we'd love for people to subscribe and follow us. And, um, you know, just, uh, when, when you go to our website, the pop up comes up to sign up for the free newsletter, do that first because that will give you a real telescopic point for Of what life in Panama is like.
Amanda Abella:I love it. I love it when people are this thorough and do the work. I particularly love it because it's not necessarily my strong suit. It's definitely more my husband's strong suit than mine. Uh, that structure and that project management part of things. So when I meet other people. Where that is their strong suit. I have so much respect for it because me as someone where i'm more of like the creative Like whoo, you know, like I just got an idea and i'm going and let's go right. Um, sometimes we really need that structure
Saundra Lohr:Well, my whole life is process groups and knowledge areas, you know, that's, that's, that's my Bible to living life and, and not having pitfalls and stumbles and, you know, poor budgeting and all the things that can happen when you don't have a solid plan and follow your plan.
Amanda Abella:Thank you so much for being here So excited to help you get your YouTube channel going and then also drive traffic from this for years to come For those who are interested in Panama guys, seriously if you're interested in Panama Just make your life easy Reach out to Sandra. This does not need to be harder than is necessary Make it easy for yourself by reaching out to people who've already done the hard work For you. Thank you so much for being here, everyone, and we will catch you on the next one.
Saundra Lohr:Thank you so much, Amanda. Bye now.