Entrepreneur Expat

Why Americans are Choosing Albania for Remote Work

• Justin Keltner

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V I D E O S    T O    W A T C H    N E X T :


Online Business Tips to Working and Traveling In Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zGH0voCyOc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j&index=2

Moving to Mexico: 10 Reasons Why We Chose to Live in Guadalajara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK23vD8_xjc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_LAY7UV78YMgms-f2e1UcwN&index=23

Tips for Moving Overseas: Top 5 Remote Work Skills That Make Money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzjCrlNAL8&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j


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Disclaimer: The information in this video should not be considered tax, financial, investment, or any kind of professional advice. Only a professional diagnosis of your specific situation can determine which strategies are appropriate for your needs. Entrepreneur Expat can and does not provide advice unless/until engaged by you.

Toni Schilling:

And a lot of those people are working remote right now, and they do not wanna go back to an office. And it is very hard to find remote roles right now because those remote roles, not only are they few and far between, they're probably gonna pay a little less because you're getting the benefit of being remote, and you're not having to move to, Bay Area or New York or Seattle to take on those roles at these tech companies. Once you find remote rules, if you're able to get into one, there usually are some stipulations around that, depending on, on the company. Uh, so I personally have interviewed with some companies that they have clauses in their contracts with their clients that state they will not have employees logging into their systems from certain regions because they're high risk.

Justin Keltner:

Today we are here with Tony Shilling and she's gonna talk to us a little bit about the situation of remote work. I'm really happy to be joined by Tony, who's actually joining us today from Albania. She's an expat out there originally from the US and she is a world class recruiter that wanted to escape the west. And, uh, find better places to live and work and travel from while maintaining her career as a technical recruiter. So Tony, I'd love it if you could just tell our audience a little bit about you and how you got to Albania For sure. And, and how you got into doing what you're doing.

Toni Schilling:

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So, um, I, I grew up in Louisiana, went to college in Texas, found my way to Colorado and spent seven years there. And while I was in Colorado, um. Was doing SaaS sales and found my way into recruiting for SaaS sales for uh, tech startup companies, and really loved it and worked my way into remote roles, uh, working remote. I had the option to really work from anywhere and cost of living in Colorado is high. So when my son graduated high school back in 2022, I decided that I was. gonna take my passport and set off and go travel the world and work remotely and see what I could see. And so that led me to, uh, taking my first trip outside the country and ended up in Mexico for my first six weeks, staying close to home in case anything went wrong. And then, uh, just looked for the cheapest flight to Europe on the Google flights. where function and the cheapest flight from Cancun to Europe was Tiranë Albania, and that's how I ended up in Albania. I've traveled 15 different countries since then, but always come back to Albania because it feels like a great place to post up for six to eight months, uh, getting outta the Schengen zone and just somewhere that's familiar and really chill when it's not the high season. So yeah, back in Albania.

Justin Keltner:

Great. I'm curious, what do you love so much about Albania? Because as I mentioned earlier, my wife and I are actually exploring going there for potentially six months, a year or maybe more, and looking at getting our. A residency there to have in our back pocket and also just to spend at least part of the year in Europe. What are, what are your favorite parts about Albania that, you love?

Toni Schilling:

Yeah, you, you find so many Americans here is Americans get a year visa free in Albania. So we just show up and we can stay for an entire year. If you wanna come back, it's just out 90 days and back for an entire year. And so it's really easy. It's not part of the shein zone. You don't have to worry about the 90 days in, 90 days out every six months. Um, and the people here are amazing. There's very much a community. Feel, um, it's still very, um, easygoing, laid back like you might find in, in Italy or Spain, but not as crowded, not as expensive, and. The southern part of Albania is beautiful. The coastline is beautiful. Where I am in am in Soranda, it's great down in Samil, you've got Hamar just up the road. And then Flora and Doris are also really popular spots along the coast because looks like Greece, but it's half the price. Um, but yeah, uh, lots of expats here, thriving expat communities and so you have plenty of people to interact with if you wanna be social. Um, but yeah, it's been a great place to post up.

Justin Keltner:

Amazing. And how is remote work for you from there? Because in addition to the remote job scene, which we're gonna get into in a minute, a lot of our followers are asking us things like, what is it like? To work from different countries, and in fact, there's a lot of rumors, and maybe these were true in the past, but things like Albania is dangerous or there's no infrastructure there, or the power goes out all the time, or they're communist. I mean, I'm curious what your thoughts are on some of that.

Toni Schilling:

it's actually crazy. So, um, Albania has a, a very good relationship with America, and so Americans are extremely welcome here, here in Saron. There's even like a Hillary Clinton Gardens and they celebrate 4th of July. And you on flag day, like Albanian Flag Day, they fly the American flag right next to the Albanian flag. And, and they're just friendly people. And I do not feel safer in any other country than I ever have in Albania. This is one of the Safest places. Um, like I said, it's very community oriented, so you see children just out playing, you know, on the beach or with each other, and all the parents are looking out for all the children. Um, if you drop your purse at the bus station and you go back five hours later, someone will have picked that up and either taken it to the police station. Or they have it there waiting for you to come back. Um, that actually happened to a friend of mine. As soon as she got here, a taxi driver found the purse. I went back to look for it. He said, oh, my friend has taken it to their home. They are going to the police station with it, but let me take you to his home. And he walked me to this guy's house and he came out to give me the purse. And I was like, oh, please let me, you know, give you some type of reward or something. And he was not having it. He was like, no, no, no, no, this, just very glad I could get this back to you. And so passports, money. Credit cards, nothing was touched. It's, it's just a safe and an easy place to be.

Justin Keltner:

That's very cool. And some of those things sound really similar to Mexico, like the family friendly nature and all that. And we're gonna have to do another conversation where we dive a little bit more into Albania as well. Um, but that's, that's really good to know. And internet has been pretty solid so far. No issues with any of that infrastructure wise.

Toni Schilling:

so to and from cities and, and you're not gonna find, um, red lights and crosswalks and things like that here. It's, it's too small for that. Here where I am in Sarda, you will find that in sorana bus systems or everywhere. It's, there's not a train system that runs through Albania like you would find in, in most parts of Europe, but the bus systems are great. You're always gonna be able to get a bus to different cities. I've taken the bus from Tarana to Montenegro before. I have friends that have gone from, um, Tarana to Bulgaria on the bus system. Um, flights. There's going to be a, a new airport being built in velo, which is great. Um, there is an airport in Tara Toronto, and then where I am in Sarada, it's a 30 minute ferry ride over to Corfu, Greece, where there's also an airport. Um, so really easy to get around as far as infrastructure goes. Um, and you're always able to get a bus. Somewhere. Um, you can take private taxis, they're everywhere as well. Um, so you're not gonna be, you know, left stranded anywhere. If you are just knock on a door, someone's gonna help you, I promise. Um, as far as internet goes and, and apartments, there are so many new apartments being built here because they are growing and so the modernization of Albania is. Happening extremely rapidly, uh, since they opened the borders, I don't know, 20, 25 years ago. And so you're gonna be able to find very Western style apartments. You'll also be able to find very traditional apartments for much lower prices, even a little bit further out of town. Um. But the internet has been great. Uh, power outages. I haven't had any issues with power outages the way here in the summer. Sometimes that happens. Um, but the internet is a great speed. They'll offer to upgrade it for you. If you're staying in an Airbnb and it's not enough, great. They can go and get that upgraded. It's no problem.

Justin Keltner:

That's good to hear. Amazing. So let's. Dive into one of the most common questions that we get from a segment of our audience that are looking to work remotely. In some cases, they still have enough money to retire and even invest, but they're like, I, I still want to keep working. Or maybe they do need a little bit of an extra source of income. You work a really with, with US companies, right? Perhaps European companies as well, or are they mainly in the, in the us.

Toni Schilling:

mostly us.

Justin Keltner:

Okay. And what are you seeing as far as just. The trends around remote work overall. I know you do a lot of remote roles, but are they really remote or are they requiring people still to be in a certain country or not be in other countries? Give us the entire, just low down of that.

Toni Schilling:

I work specifically with tech startups and in the startup world there is a trend of. teams back in offices and having the team in office and building a culture in office. Um, and I'm, I'm not sure how successful that's going to be, because usually when startups are hiring people, they're, they need to hire the best of the best that. To come in that already knows what they're doing to help build out teams. And a lot of those people are working remote right now, and they do not wanna go back to an office. Uh, so you'll have maybe some remote roles. A lot of engineering roles are gonna re remain remote. Most of those were remote prior to COVID and, and other roles going remote. Um, but a lot of your sales roles, your corporate roles, your G-N-G-N-A roles, they're coming back into office. they believe that. You know, people work better when they're face to face. Don't know how true I, I buy into that. I'm not a, I'm not a huge advocate for that because I get distracted very easily and I'm very unproductive in an office. But it is a trend and it is very hard to find remote roles right now because those remote roles, not only are they few and far between, they're probably gonna pay a little less because you're getting the benefit of being remote, um, and you're not having to move to, um. Bay Area or New York or Seattle to take on those roles at these tech companies. so. Once you find remote rules, if you're able to get into one, there usually are some stipulations around that, depending on, on the company. Uh, so I personally have interviewed with some companies that they have clauses in their contracts with their clients that state they will not have employees logging into their systems from certain regions because they're high risk. Most of those are

Justin Keltner:

interesting.

Toni Schilling:

PHI, um, they're gonna be DCI, uh, um. Compliant, they're going to hold very sensitive data. Um, and, and they just don't want to get out. They don't want your computer to be left open in a cafe and something to happen, or you weren't using a VPN or the security you were supposed to be using. So that can

Justin Keltner:

if that couldn't happen in the US right.

Toni Schilling:

Yeah. That's

Justin Keltner:

Yeah.

Toni Schilling:

the US. Companies are very adamant that being outside of the US is a risk. I would disagree, but they own the company, so we have to abide by what they want. And if you want a remote job and they require you to be in the us, you're gonna have to stay in the US if you want that. Um, very few companies are going to be open. To the possibility of you being outside of the us, um, if they're following principles of least access. If you have a role that doesn't need access into sensitive customer data, sensitive product, data sensitive employee data, then they shut off your access to all those things and you're able to just access the things that you need. Or if they have entities in other countries. Um, so you have companies like Oster and Deal that are global companies. They have, help other companies get entities and companies where they can hire in those places. Like I said, I, move around enough where I'm not a resident of any one country, so I'm still considered a US resident. I am not having to have benefits of any one country and, and becoming a resident there. It doesn't mess with the taxes for the company. And so those are things that you'll have to think about as well because if you do reside in another country, um, and you're trying to get a US job. probably best to get it before you leave and, and go somewhere else. And then make sure that you're still considered that US resident and have a US address and US bank account. if you don't have that, a lot of times it's a no go for companies.

Justin Keltner:

Now you mentioned that some of these company. Is actually will have like four, either foreign hiring entities where maybe they're going through some type of payroll organization or something like that, or they've got branches already in that company and they could essentially hire you in that other country. Do you see that they're paying the same wages as they would a remote worker, let's say in California? Or are they also making adjustments based on the country that you're in? What does that look like?

Toni Schilling:

will, um, geo adjust for where you're at. Some companies won't. The big thing with that is if you are residing in that country and you are a resident in that country, you have to be legally employable in that country because they would be hiring you in that country and so you have to become a legal resident. You can't just be on a tourist visa there and, and try to have a job within that country hired through with that country.

Justin Keltner:

What I'm hearing there and tell me if this sounds like it's correct, but you actually not just have to have that visa, but you probably are also required to have a work authorization because to your point, the big multinational companies, uh, or even large US companies that maybe do have a, another hiring entity or branch or whatever, that could potentially hire you and be willing to take on that risk because they, they've got people on the ground there. best case scenario, they may very well adjust your wage to the salaries in that country, which means your entire arbitrage play. Of living, you know, living in pesos or in Albanian, what is it? Le there, Albanian le and then earning in, in dollars. It's kind of gone out the window because now you're competing with the locals, uh, in their marketplace in terms of like what you're earning and able to spend. But more importantly, you would have to be competing with them essentially for those jobs. Uh, and the government doesn't want that. The government is not going to issue you. A work authorization. Now in Mexico, it's a little bit more lenient, uh, although by the letter of the law, when you renew your temporary residence here, you do need to say that you are still qualified on the same authorization that you came in on, which is you're making money from outside of Mexico. Sometimes they will give you a remote authorization, and that's. Especially true if, for example, you are, you know, you wanna start like a business in Mexico and hire yourself or something like that. Um, but in Europe, I mean, I, I, I'm almost a hundred percent sure when I was researching this myself, that Albania does not allow you to work in that country at all. You have to have all of your income coming in from remote sources. And even if they did allow you to work, you're, you're now. Also getting into their tax net, which is relatively high if your income isn't from overseas. So it's, it's kind of a, a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing, isn't it? God

Toni Schilling:

the, around that would probably be to take on 10 99 positions and be like a sole proprietor or have your own business that you are, are billing as a 10 99 employee on a contract. Um, because then you could have your, your business entity could be anywhere really. And then you're billing them in US dollars and they're

Justin Keltner:

filling the company that you're working for. And is that like a viable workaround, like when you're looking at positions that you have available? Do they tend to allow you, I mean, I know that's a workaround, um, but how do, how do those corporations actually look at it, whether it's a startup or whether it's a, a larger enterprise? I mean, are they open to that even,

Toni Schilling:

I haven't found that in a lot of cases, unless they are looking for a very, very skilled person and they really want the skills that that person has, they would be willing to do a 10 99 for. Them. Um, otherwise

Justin Keltner:

gonna, yeah, I.

Toni Schilling:

a, it their because they really want someone that's gonna be. On, on board with the mission and a part of the team and really driven by the company. And if you're, if you're just on a contract that's very temporary, doesn't feel very permanent, it doesn't feel very bought in, especially in the startup world. So there aren't gonna be a lot of companies that are switching when they have a full-time role open, switching it to a contract role unless you are very, very skilled at something.

Justin Keltner:

That makes a lot of sense. And, and that's, that's what I've seen as well as we've been talking with people that have been applying for jobs. They really, they don't want to be flexible. And by the way, another thing I'll add, and you're, you've. Probably seen this as well when people are trying to work from, from other countries or even in your own personal experience. But if you're getting a W2 income, not only are you paying federal income tax and all that, but you're also paying tax in whatever state that company has you registered in potentially. And especially if that's a high tax state like California or New York, you're losing half the benefits of spending all of the time outside of the us You're, you're almost paying as if you were living in the US full time.

Toni Schilling:

if you were outside of the US for 330 days, within a 12 month period. You qualify for the foreign, foreign earned income exclusion, even if you are being paid by a US company. And so you are excluded from federal taxes, not Medicare and, and social security, but federal taxes, um, as long as you are outside of the country for that amount of time within a 12 month period, state taxes you would still be responsible for. But if you put your permanent address in a state with no state taxes, like a Florida or a Texas. you don't have the state taxes as well. So staying outside the country for that amount of time, 330 days out of a 12 month period, and then keeping a permanent residence in either, uh, in one of those states that doesn't have a state tax, and then being able to qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion is very beneficial.

Justin Keltner:

So there are some loopholes. I mean, that's, that's good. We, we use things like that in our corporation. I guess you can apply it. Uh, for state tax and, and federal tax purposes as well as a W2 employee. But that goes back to that, that original challenge of like, how are you going to get the job in the first place? So are there any like loopholes or strategies for people like that, that are, you know, set on moving to another country but they really want. A job in the US making dollars. I mean, is it, is it even a good approach? Do you see more people leaning more towards like independent work and 10 99 work, or what are the overall trends in the tech space and every, every other area you've worked in?

Toni Schilling:

lack of remote roles available and with the strict. Requirements around working remote these days because they have so many ways to tell whether or not you are actually in the country. If you think you're gonna use a VPN and just kind of skate by, it's not gonna happen. There's, there's too many things that can detect that these days. but it's, if you can find one, there are ways around moving around so that you're not becoming a tax resident in any one country. If you can't find a remote role that lets you do that, don't try to do it on the fly. And, and or just like under the radar, some kind, some of companies will say, okay, you get one month and you can be outside of the country for one month, but then they need you back in the country. Uh, so you will have some stipulations like that. But when it comes to looking for a remote role, be honest. When you're talking to the hiring managers about what you plan to do, um, because that's gonna go a long way and it's an instant let go, uh, like getting fired. If they find out you're doing it without permission.

Justin Keltner:

There's a lot of people that I've heard of in Mexico that were just thinking they could move here and, and get by with that. And a lot of them have run into those, those issues, and I think it was easier. Before too. They didn't really care so much like during and after the pandemic where you were, they, they didn't have as many people also figuring out that they could leave the US and save a lot of money. And so now it's like they're just dealing with these shit storms of tax issues that are happening from international employees and all these other things. I mean, what, what, what have you seen as the trend? Because it seems like just the last two years it's been almost shut down completely. Right.

Toni Schilling:

biggest thing is to educate yourself so that you can educate them. Um, and I found that even with companies that I have interviewed with, I'll absolutely preface because they're always gonna ask, where are you located? address is in Texas, but I do travel full time. I am a US resident and a US tax resident, and I have a US bank account. I just tend to travel, but I never stay long enough in one country to become a tax resident. So as long as you're okay with the location, everything else should be fine. Um, and, and just learn to talk to'em about those things if they need to ask deeper questions. They don't need to know about the foreign earned income exclusion. That has nothing to do with them. They're still gonna pay taxes the same way. They are still going to do things the same way on their end. You're still going to receive us benefits. They don't have to give you benefits of the country you're in. Just don't overcomplicate it, but be honest about it. Uh, and you'd be surprised with, you know. You'll catch that one or those two that are like, all right, that's cool. As long as you get your work done. Uh, especially if you've been doing this. So like I've been doing this for three and a half years, it's much easier for me to say, oh yeah, I work American hours from Asia'cause I've done it and I have managers that can attest to my productiveness while I'm working American hours from Asia. Um, so that might be a challenge as well. The hours that you work.

Justin Keltner:

So it is possible. I mean, there are some loopholes, um, so I don't wanna make it seem like it's totally impossible. It's just that with, with the job market, it seems like they're getting so many applicants. I, I want you to touch on that a little bit because we talked about this before. I mean, why, why would they pick you as, as a remote? Or living in Mexico or living in Albania or living in Columbia or in In Thailand. When they've already got a few thousand, you said? Right. On average, you're getting thousands of applicants from the us

Toni Schilling:

complicated to them because just, just by that first admission that you are not in the us. That makes you complicated and they don't want complicated. They want to move quickly, and they might want to do offsites every quarter. It's extremely expensive to fly back to the United States every quarter, and I have to be out of the United States for 330 days a year to make sure that I can get that 400. Exclusion. So I don't want to fly back to the States four times a year for a week long onsite, uh, because then that means I don't have time to go see my family and, and spend time visiting with family. so you have to be aware of those things and, and understand those things that. You know, what are you going to sacrifice to be able to have this life? Uh, are you willing to, to work the American hours from Asia? If you wanna be in Asia and have the, the lower cost of living there? It's absolutely possible. Many, many people do it. You're gonna meet many of them along the way from the different groups and communities and meetups that you'll, you'll end up going to and finding people at. but you'll find that they have to work to make it work.

Justin Keltner:

So what are some alternatives? I mean, you, you, for example, recently started your own business.

Toni Schilling:

so being on the market and it's, uh, it's a full-time job to look for a job and then the projects and the multiple interviews and the, you know, disappointment of, oh, we're not gonna move forward because of where you're located or because we want to move it on site. Instead, we want someone to be in the office. Um, that's okay. That is absolutely okay. So I know there are a ton of companies out there that need my skills and my expertise and, and need someone like me, and they are very open to contracts. Have many friends that have gone into the realm of building their own agencies since I specialize in tech and GTM for SaaS startups. Uh. Branching out on my own and putting together a website, putting together a business, getting my own clients and, and working contracts or contingency or, you know, uh, a split desk for them my own business to be able to live the lifestyle that I wanna live and not have to answer to someone else or, or be called back to office for no reason.

Justin Keltner:

Yeah, it sounds like you making that, that leap, and I want to hear a little bit about what, what kind of triggered that, other than just the, the bureaucracy and the red tape and everything, but you making that leap Sounds like. It's given you a lot more freedom and flexibility, and of course you've gotta do overlapping hours occasionally and things like that, but it sounds like it's a lot more flexible. Can you talk a little bit about that to people that maybe have considered starting their own business and they're not sure where to go or why, or if it's really even worth it.

Toni Schilling:

Yeah, and I'm still in the early stages of this as well, and so trying to figure out where I want my business to be based. Do I want to, to build my business in Estonia and be able to get an Estonian visa so that I can have sheen. Says, do I wanna do it in Bulgaria because there's a cheap cost of living there, and it's very easy to set up a business in, in Bulgaria or Romania. Do I wanna do it in the States? Uh, and then have all the, the taxes and the red tape and things that happen in the states when you open a business there. Um, so those are questions you're gonna have to, to take a look at and, and find out what matters. To you. Uh, and, and there are infinite options. Um, also starting off a business, it costs money. Um, it's, it does cost money. You're gonna go months without clients because you're getting things set up. So you have to be prepared, um, which is another reason to. Be in a place where there's a low cost of living, where you can focus and get your business set up and get clients on board, uh, and really build things out because there's gonna be a period of time where you're absolutely not making as much money as you're making in the corporate world for most of us. Um, but you're, it's gonna take time to build that up. So as long as you can manage that and, and are okay with that, then yeah, it's a great option because it does give you a lot more freedom. And it gives you a lot more options too. Like it would be great to have, you know, sheen access, you know, all year long and not have to worry about being in 90 days and out 90 days. Uh, so yeah, you, you've got some great opportunity there.

Justin Keltner:

Great. So for, for those of our, of our listeners that are like, you know what, I really do want to get a job in tech. I mean, I understand maybe it's a little bit of an uphill battle. Um, or maybe they have a job, they can't do it remotely and they're looking for a new job. It sounds like most of the people you work with are a little bit more with the advance. Side, like they're not entry level jobs by any means, but I'd love to hear more about some of the jobs or the types of jobs that you do work on. And that way we will include your contact information and everything down below in case people are looking to, to get into some of those roles. And maybe you do come across startups that, that allow like part or full-time remote, international. Um, we'd love to hear a little bit about, about what those, uh, kinds of jobs are.

Toni Schilling:

absolutely. Um, engineering jobs are still very much remote. Um, you can find many more engineering jobs in a remote setting than you can maybe product jobs, or. sales jobs, but sales, jobs and tech and start up, you do find remote opportunities for more advanced AEs that have proven numbers and president's clubs and have the work history to, to prove out that they are good at what they do. Um, companies are, are willing to. concessions for that and, and give you a little bit more freedom and flexibility to be able to get you into their, into their organization. And, um, that's a, I'm absolutely a huge fan of that and have a lot of the GTM side is where my expertise lies.'cause I come from SaaS sales, so, um, account executives, account managers, customer. marketing and design some product roles, project managers, you're gonna find some of those roles that are gonna still very much be remote, um, especially if they're are looking to hire in Eastern Europe. Um, there's a, a, a huge amount of companies that are hiring throughout Eastern Europe, especially on the engineering and like product side. So if you do end up with residency there, then there's opportunity and they still pay well. Um, but yeah, GTM side and then engineering, of course, there's always engineering rules that companies need to fill. So, um, if you're an advanced engineer, happy to, to chat with you about what you're looking for. Um, but yeah, cross the board. Happy to help.

Justin Keltner:

Course, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you to, to connect with you about those things?

Toni Schilling:

um, receive through my email or through LinkedIn. Um, so LinkedIn, just Tony Shilling and you'll see, uh, my picture there. I kind of hard to miss the redhead. Um, but then I'll give you my email if you'd like to share that. It's tony dot shilling at besa talent, BESA talent.com. happy

Justin Keltner:

And we'll put that down below too. Amazing. Well, well thank you so much. We really appreciate your time, Tony. And if, uh, those of you are wa who are watching are looking for more guidance on how to make income remotely from a business or from your own independent sort of thing, we also have a lot of resources. We're gonna include those below this video, including our expat income accelerator. As well as some other programs that can get you started on your expat journey. And if you're looking specifically for a remote role in tech or go to market for businesses, engineering account executives, all sorts of things like that, definitely connect with Tony on LinkedIn or by email. And thank you again, Tony, for being with us here today and sharing all that insight with our audience. We really appreciate it.

Toni Schilling:

Thanks for the opportunity.