Entrepreneur Expat

We Left America for Mexico - Here's What Nobody Tells You (Honest Expat Interview)

• Justin Keltner

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Hey everyone, Justin from Entrepreneur Expat here! This episode features an interview I did for The Blue Collar Jew, covering what it's like living in Mexico. We discussed the safety reality and various aspects of life abroad, offering insights for those considering moving to Mexico. It's a great listen for anyone interested in expat life, even digital nomad opportunities down here. 🌎

Free Moving to Mexico guide: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/mexico

Apply to work with us: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/consult

In Lake Chapala Mexico? Come visit us: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/pin

V I D E O S    T O    W A T C H    N E X T :


Online Business Tips to Working and Traveling In Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zGH0voCyOc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j&index=2

Moving to Mexico: 10 Reasons Why We Chose to Live in Guadalajara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK23vD8_xjc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_LAY7UV78YMgms-f2e1UcwN&index=23

Tips for Moving Overseas: Top 5 Remote Work Skills That Make Money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzjCrlNAL8&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j


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Inquiries: community@entrepreneurexpat.com


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Disclaimer: The information in this video should not be considered tax, financial, investment, or any kind of professional advice. Only a professional diagnosis of your specific situation can determine which strategies are appropriate for your needs. Entrepreneur Expat can and does not provide advice unless/until engaged by you.

Justin Keltner

Hey everyone, what's up? This is Justin with Entrepreneur Expat. Today's video is a little different from our usual content. What you're about to watch today is actually an interview that I did for a show called The Blue Collar Jew, hosted by Tomer Klein. It airs very soon on 960 The Patriot, which is an AM radio station out of Phoenix, Arizona. Tomer actually reached out to us after finding us on YouTube, and we ended up having such a great conversation about life in Mexico, the safety reality, cost of living, residency, and so much more. And in fact, I learned a lot, uh, just from him as well. You know, he shared a lot of his story and his experience living part-time in Mexico City with his family. And so we asked if it'd be okay for us to share this directly on our channel as well. He was gracious enough to say yes. So if you enjoy this kind of raw, unscripted format for our videos, these sorts of interviews and things like that, let us know in the comments. Make sure you also check out Tomer's show. Link is in the description below. Let's get right into it. I didn't have any roots here. I, I didn't speak any Spanish. Uh, and it's kinda, it's kinda cool. I mean, I've been able to just really integrate into the society here, and now we're even, you know, in our business doing deals with, like, local real estate developers and, uh, agents and immigration attorneys, you know, that are helping us. We've just, despite not having any of those things, not having any of those roots, me just kind of figuring it out as this, this, you know, gringo in another, in another land, uh- Mm-hmm we were able to, you know, learn... I was able to learn Spanish. We were able to make a lot of connections, um, and start, you know, doing business locally and things here as well. we hear comments all the time like, "Oh, you know, you, you guys have got bodies hanging from overpasses." And I jokingly respond to them. I say, "We don't have freeways here. There's no overpasses. What are you talking about?" But in all seriousness, I've lived in Mexico total for almost six years, at different points of my life and I've never personally witnessed, you know, any sort of gang-related activity here in Mexico. you don't really see those sorts of things on a day-to-day basis. There's a lot of, push by the Western media and the Western narrative overall to make not just Mexico but really anywhere outside of the US seem a lot more dangerous than it actually is. I feel a lot more safe in the Lake Chapala area here than- Mm-hmm I ever have in a lot of cities, including San Francisco, uh, where I lived in the, in the Bay Area for many years. I grew up in the Bay Area, including Los Angeles, including even Austin. I feel a lot safer here.

Tomer Klein

it goes to my point earlier that if you're living in a place like Mexico and you're living in Playa del Carmen, Mexico City, where we got our residency in, was really, really... In Polanco, I mean, it's like untouched. You do not feel- Mm. My wife pushes the stroller. She gets a coffee in the morning, she gets a croissant, whatever she wants. Nobody gives her problems. The police are like, "Hi," and "Bye. Good morning, ma'am." They play with my kid. I don't know if I would really get that in most of your American cities. all right. And I am going to introduce Justin to the Blue Collar Jew. Um, I'm your host, Homer Klein, where we question the lies and also we question the narratives that are out there. Justin, welcome to the show.

Justin Keltner

Thanks, Tomer. It's, uh, great to be here with you guys

Tomer Klein

today. Thank you. Thank you. So yeah, I just wanted to jump into, I saw you on YouTube. I like some of the things that you were saying. I'm a Mexican resident myself. Um, but are you a resident or are you a citizen?

Justin Keltner

Uh, so my wife, Amanda, and I currently have our temporary residency here in Mexico. Mm-hmm. And, uh, mine is about to convert to permanent residence just in a few weeks. Nice. And then we're gonna, we're gonna probably go the, the passport route after that.

Tomer Klein

Nice. How long did it take for you to get permanent residency? How long have you been at this?

Justin Keltner

Yeah, so officially you need to be legally in the country with temporary residence for four years, and then- Mm-hmm after those four, four years are up, you can essentially convert the temporary into permanent. For some people, if they're retired and they have enough in like pension or remote income or savings and they're already in their 60s, they can actually get permanent right away. Um, but because- we weren't in, in those, in those, uh, like retired criteria, uh, we were able to do the temporary route and then convert that.

Tomer Klein

Nice. And I've heard like a bunch... I don't know if it's, uh, true or not, but they were saying that if you're in the u- the US and you already have temporary residency, some consulates will allow you to change it over to, um, permanent residency. I don't know how accurate that is. I did use a lawyer, and they said it's pretty cut and dry. I know some people are doing, uh, children, they're having children there. Our next child is actually gonna be born down there, so we are gonna go that route, which then fast-tracks us. I think it's... They said somewhere between 18 to 24 months you'll be eligible to go the citizenship route, which is like a really solid passport. Most people wouldn't think that, but I mean, on the Mexican passport the idea that I like is, uh- You're able to travel as a different identity. You kind of lose some of the stigma. Like my wife and my son are Israeli and American, and both of them kind of have a bad stigma to them. Um, we are in the process as a family of getting German. Because of my grandmother, I'm able to get German citizenship. It just takes a little bit. Uh, but yeah, basically like, I mean, the Mexican people would not think that the quality of life is so good. All they hear is like violence. They hear You know, there's, uh, cartel activity, but I think you could find that in the States. You know, it doesn't mean just 'cause that's happening we're gonna go live in neighborhoods or cities or states that are running with that stuff, you know?

Justin Keltner

Of course, and that's one of the things that we hear a lot about on our channel, too. We've been running our YouTube channel for going on about three years now almost, and, uh, we hear comments all the time like, "Oh, you know, you, you guys have got bodies hanging from overpasses." And I jokingly respond to them. I say, "We don't have freeways here. There's no overpasses. What are you talking about?" But, but in all seriousness, uh, we've been here now... I mean, I, I've lived in Mexico total for almost six years, uh- Mm-hmm about four years this time and another couple years, uh, at, at different points of my life earlier, and I've never personally witnessed, you know, any sort of gang-related activity here in Mexico. I've never seen anything. I mean, I've heard, like, stories occasionally, but even when you hear stories, it's like, okay, they took out one guy that was in a rivaling cartel or, you know, they burned some buses because their top dude got captured by the Mexican army and, and obviously in cahoots with the US, uh- Yeah intelligence and the US government. But you don't really see those sorts of things on a day-to-day basis. Uh, there's a lot of, I, I would argue, a push by the Western media and the Western narrative overall to make not just Mexico but really anywhere outside of the US seem a lot more dangerous than it actually is. I mean, and, and I know. Like, I'm on the ground here. We've traveled all over Mexico. We've been in, uh, all over Jalisco, the beaches here, Guadalajara. We lived in Guadalajara for about three years. Uh, we're in the Lake Chapala area now. I've been to Mexico City, Playa del Carmen, Cancun. I li- even lived for over a year in Tijuana near the beach where, where you hear, you know, most of those, those stories. And if you're not going, to your point, Homer, in the bad neighborhoods, just like you wouldn't go and live or visit a bad neighborhood in the US, you're not really going to see any sort of violence, uh, short of maybe occasional street crime and things like that. But even those sorts of things are, from my experience, a lot less concentrated than they are in major US cities. In fact, Amanda and I just a couple years ago, and I'm sure it's gotten worse, we were visiting LA. We were in, uh, we were in Venice Beach. Yeah, we went to Santa Monica. We went to Venice Beach, and it wasn't even 5:00 PM when we started to get approached by, like, these, uh, homeless people on the street clearly intoxicated on something, you know, starting to get, like, rowdy or just not know where the heck they even were. I mean, it was... And so you, you started to feel really insecure and really, uh, uncomfortable, and that's in LA, which is supposedly, quote-unquote, "safe" s- a major city in the US. Uh, my, my mother currently lives in LA in, in the, in the San Fernando Valley, so, you know, we, we go to visit her, uh, regularly. But I feel a lot more safe in the Lake Chapala area here than- Mm-hmm I ever have in a lot of cities, including San Francisco, uh, where I lived in the, in the Bay Area for many years. I grew up in the Bay Area, including Los Angeles, including even Austin. I feel a lot safer here.

Tomer Klein

Yeah, I lived in the Bay Area for a while, and I have a heating and cooling company, so, um just quite a bit. Um, here also in Phoenix where I live right now temporarily, we're, we're planning our trip or our move at the end of summer. Um, getting ready for birth and all that kind of stuff that's coming up after the, right after the new year. Um, but yeah, I mean, like, I can't tell you how many times I would go and my truck would get broken into. That actually just happened to me two weeks ago. Um, you know, you hear... I would be on a rooftop, and I'm a gun guy and I have no problem with guns, but out here in a place like Oakland, I would be on a rooftop and I'd hear automatic gunfire. And you would think you're in a place like Culiacán, Sinaloa- Mm-hmm but I feel like that those places actually probably have more law and order than you would in these, like, some of these big American cities that you see across the US. Now, I'm also living in a bubble in Phoenix. Phoenix is like, there's a lot of money that's being driven here. It's not quite the same. Like, our economy hasn't been affected by the slowdown, and then with the war in Iran and stuff like that, like other parts of the US. So I don't really feel some of these things, but it, it goes to my point earlier that if you're living in a place like Mexico and you're living in Playa del Carmen, Mexico City, where we got our residency in, was really, really... In Polanco, I mean, it's like untouched. You do not feel- Mm. My wife pushes the stroller. She gets a coffee in the morning, she gets a croissant, whatever she wants. Nobody gives her problems. The police are like, "Hi," and "Bye. Good morning, ma'am." They play with my kid. I don't know if I would really get that in most of your American cities. I don't know if I would get that kind of friendliness. The... And they're very warm people, too. That's the other thing I like about Mexico. It's a very warm, inviting culture as well.

Justin Keltner

Yeah. I mean, 100%, it's night and day in terms of the culture. Uh, you mentioned- Mm a couple things there. One was definitely the, the family friendliness. Mm-hmm. They say they've done, you know, reports on this in the US saying that Mexicans actually have the closest family values and, and maybe, maybe Jews aren't too far behind, I would- Yeah I would imagine. But, but even the Mexican communities in the US tend to be very close to their, to their, uh, to their families, right? Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, I'm also, I mentioned to you earlier, I'm, I'm Jewish on my mother's side, and, and- You're Jewish as well, yeah definitely. And also, also Ukrainian, right? So, so the, the Eastern Europeans also tend to be close to their families as, as do Jews. Uh, but Mexicans, I mean, it's a whole other level. To the point of, you know, may- maybe they, they have a problem pushing their, their, uh, their kids out of the nest, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'Cause you see, you see a lot of, uh- Uh, just multi-generational families there and even people that are in their, in their 30s and 40s still living at home, which is like totally normal in Mexico. And I think that's more normal than- Mm-hmm let's say an American family s- you know, just kicking their kid out of the house at 18 and saying, "You know what? Go to college. You're off on your own." Like, you're not- Yeah developed. You don't have a fully developed brain at 18 years old. I know I, I sure didn't. Uh, so, uh, Mexicans are very friendly. They're very family oriented. Um, and like here in the Chapala area, same, same experience in Guadalajara as well, like you know all of your neighbors. You know, people are- Mm-hmm looking out for each other. Uh, people are in touch with each other, even in the community, the local community, in WhatsApp groups. When we lived- Mm in a neighborhood called Chapalita in Guadalajara- Mm-hmm there was even a WhatsApp group for security of the neighborhood that had the comandante, the head of police of that local, like precinct in, in the, in the neighborhood in that group. And if anybody reported like a suspicious car or a s- suspicious person, or God forbid, you know, some type of break-in or something going on, I think the police would be right there. Uh, you would see- Mm how quickly they'd respond in that group. I mean, good luck getting police to show up, even in Phoenix, even in a nice neighborhood- Yeah in less than 10 or 15- Yeah minutes, right? And that's, that's- Well, when they- to your point why people have guns too, which in the US I understand why- Yeah people have guns. Well,

Tomer Klein

when they broke into my truck, my neighbor across the street actually caught 'em. It was right after Shavuot, um, and it was going into Shabbat, so like my phone is off. The cops are trying to find out who owns the van 'cause it's a company van, even though it's got my last name on it and stuff. But, uh, the cops are trying to call. They're trying to get in contact. Um, the neighbor calls ac- the street, or call from across the street, calls the police. You know, 60 to 90 seconds later they show up and, you know, they m- you know, one thing too late. And we, and we did have, we do have the camaraderie, like, in our neighborhood. But the point I'm trying to also say to a lot of people is when they say, "Well, there's nothing like America," they're kind of hanging on to, like, a bygone year, unfortunately, that I think has changed. I don't th- I think a lot of the American dream... It's not to leave the US. I do think that you can find these places in the US, but I think it's been, you had decades of people looking up to American exceptionalism, and now places like Mexico, Paraguay, Uruguay, Panama, all these countries, they're now what remind me of, of like a 1990s like I grew up. Like, when we're, when I was in Uruguay a few years back, also Paraguay as well, but those countries, I mean, we're getting residency there at the end of summer as well. And, um, my wife, she's like all for it. She sees the writing on the wall. She's like, "I don't want my kids growing up in the school systems here in the US." She goes there, the... It's not, it's not even the political stuff that's been politicized with the school stuff, it's more like teaching them economics, teaching them financial responsibility. You know, home economics class when I was a kid. I guess kids aren't doing that nowadays.

Justin Keltner

No.

Tomer Klein

And dress code- They're not doing

Justin Keltner

anything important

Tomer Klein

in school. Yeah. They're not doing any of that. Yeah. And, and they just, they come out and they're uneducated, and they're angry. And I, and you know, I notice the other thing too is kids are not on social media the same way in Mexico and in these, in these other countries like they are here in the US. I mean, you know, there's a reason why China doesn't allow certain things, like, that are on TikTok to be on their version of TikTok in China. I just think the culture has gotten a little bit not what I grew up with here in the US,

Justin Keltner

you know? Absolutely. We, and we hear that all the time too, and that was one of the reasons that I certainly decided to come down here because I said, "Well, i- is it cheaper than the US? Sure." You know, we can afford to live in Miami if we wanted to or in LA or somewhere. But it's not about what place is the cheapest. Sure. It's that the value isn't there. Yeah. The culture's eroding. I mean, we don't have any kids, at least not yet. We've got a dog and a cat. Wait, how old are you? Uh, but I would not... I'm 34. Okay. Yeah, you got time, yeah. And Amanda's a few, a few years older than me. But, uh- Okay we don't have kids yet, but I could not imagine sending my kids to, let's say, public school in the US. Yeah. Granted, here I would probably still send them to private school to give them the best education possible, but it's not gonna be thousands and thousands of dollars a month per kid like it would be in the US either, plus daycare, plus this, plus that. The value's just not there, in addition to the culture just being a total mess.

Tomer Klein

Right. Yeah, like I saw that in Playa del Carmen they have international schools for 2 to $400 a month. Like, that just blows my mind. You can get a private education for 2, 3, $400 a month. That to me, I mean, you can't put a value on that. Mexico City also, there's a big Jewish population there, and like for grade A religious schools that still teach like economics and, you know, the, the fundamental core classes that'll help you develop in life- Oh man, those guys are like, uh, you know, 600. In America, it's $40,000 a year to send your kid to a school like that. I know. Minimum. I, I went to private

Justin Keltner

school when I was, when I was in, in grade school. Yeah. I'm, I'm aware. Where at? Yeah. In- Uh, in San Jose I went to a school called Challenger.

Tomer Klein

I know Challenger. I lived in San Jose for three years. Okay. I was in, uh, Willow Glen, if you're familiar.

Justin Keltner

Yeah.

Tomer Klein

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great place. Great place. Um, so what's your plan? Are you guys gonna stay in Mexico? Like, how did, what made you decide Mexico? Do you have any familiar roots to it or?

Justin Keltner

I don't, no. And in fact, I didn't speak a lick of Spanish, uh, really before... I mean, I did speak Spanish before moving here, but not before moving to Latin America. I, I learned all on my own. Mm-hmm. I initially had gone to Colombia to visit- Nice and, uh, ended up basically staying there for, for about three years, and that's where I learned Spanish, and then came back to the US for a few months. Thought maybe I wanted to come back and see how things were, and things were honestly worse in- Yeah the US, so I said, "You know what? I, I know Mexico." I, I decided to live on the beach near Rosarito, not too far from- Okay. Uh, from the border with San Diego there. Wow. And, you know, I was at least close to my family in San Diego, my family in LA. Okay. And I got to kind of, uh, escape, you know, just the you know, I can't call it anything other than maybe societal and empirical decline, uh, that I- Right that I experienced for the few months that I did go back to the US between kinda different stints in Latin America. Um, but yeah, I didn't, I didn't have any roots here. I, I didn't speak any Spanish. Uh, and it's kinda, it's kinda cool. I mean, I've been able to just really integrate into the society here, and now we're even, you know, in our business doing deals with, like, local real estate developers and, uh, agents and immigration attorneys, you know, that are helping us. We've just, despite not having any of those things, not having any of those roots, me just kind of figuring it out as this, this, you know, gringo in another, in another land, uh- Mm-hmm we were able to, you know, learn... I was able to learn Spanish. We were able to make a lot of connections, um, and start, you know, doing business locally and things here as well.

Tomer Klein

Um, two things you brought up. So being, like, a foreigner, do you ever feel like that you're a foreigner, or they're pretty welcoming to you? Knowing that you're not- I, I feel

Justin Keltner

like a foreigner in the sense of I, I know that my culture is different from the Mexican culture. But unlike a lot of people, and this is, this is, you know, an unfortunate truth about expats, a lot of people wanna come here and, like, turn this into the US. Yeah. And we're not for that at all, right? No. They don't wanna necessarily learn Spanish. They don't wanna integrate. They're really mad when people are, you know, shooting off fireworks at all hours of the day and night. And I, I am lucky enough to live in, in an area, you know, got the lake behind us. We're kind of up on a mountain here where we don't hear too much of that. But at the same time- Yeah I'm not gonna get mad at, you know, people here doing what they do and what, what their, what their culture is, right? Yeah. So do I feel like a foreigner? Yes. And there's- I think as foreigners, you know, there's positive things and negative things that, that we bring, like, to any given culture. Although it's all relative, right? You could view it from any lens. Um, but the way I see it, a lot of the positive stuff that we're bringing here is kind of the, the systems minde- mindedness, you know, wanting to be- Yes efficient, uh, being on time. Yeah. Like, those are things that are sometimes foreign Mm-hmm to the Mexican culture, right? It's, time seems to be a little bit more of a human construct here. But the flip side of that is that people are more family-oriented. They're more close with their family, their friends, their community. Uh, they're not constantly focused on, like, just making money at any expense, right? Like, the kind of late s- late stage capitalism I think is, is plaguing the US now. And by the way, I mean, I'm a capitalist. I wouldn't call myself a liberal or a conservative. I'm, I'm a libertarian. Uh, and I believe in capitalism. Yeah. Not, I don't believe- Yeah in crony capitalism, right? Exactly. That's, that's kind of the where we're, where we're evolving or devolving to right now in the US. Um, but I feel like a foreigner in the senses of, yeah, I'm certainly different. Uh, but there's a lot of things that I can bring, and then there's also a lot of things that I can learn. Now, in terms of feeling, uh, discriminated or anything like that here, I mean, absolutely not. I don't think I've really experienced anything like that- Yeah the, the whole time I've been here. Yeah. Do you have people, like in, in Mexico City, for example, that are saying, you know, "Hey, we, we don't," you know, in, in certain neighborhoods like Polanco, "We don't want gringos. Go home," and they're tired of all the short-term rentals and tourists and all that? I mean, sure- Yeah, Roma- you hear about those sorts of things, but- Norte, I think,

Tomer Klein

was the big one, right? That was the big one- Was that- where they had... Roma Norte, they had the big protests. Mm-hmm. I saw some footage of that, and I knew people who were there, and they said that the media made it much worse. They said there was maybe three, four dozen people who knocked over a few tables and then walked around just chanting, and then it was gone 15 minutes later, and that was it. Like,

Justin Keltner

that was their- Yeah, it was way overblown, and also, a- and j- a caveat here is I can't, I can't speak in detail to Mexican politics because I'm a guest in their country- Mm-hmm and they frown upon that. So I won't get too in depth into, like, my thoughts- Yeah because we have similar issues here with government, right? And, and how things are run and whatever. They're just not nearly as bad as the US, but I heard definitely reports as well that there were a lot of paid protesters there. Yeah. Uh, that there were a lot of people even from, like, the opposing political parties of, of the current administration, uh, that were in- inciting protesters to go there and, and, and loot and whatever else they were doing. But the irony is they were just looting Mexican businesses, and that was- Like one day. Yeah, exactly. It's not like- Yeah they're even hurting foreigners. They were hurting their own people. And so I, my opinion, I mean, probably they, they were a lot, most if not all of those guys were, were paid protesters. The other thing is, and I, I know I'm gonna get a lot of, lot of flack for this, but the people that are there protesting that are saying, "Oh, you know, gentrification, and you kicked us out of our neighborhoods," and blah blah blah, like most of the people that we've seen doing that never were able to live in those neighborhoods in the first place Um, because they were t- already some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Mexico City Yes. Yes And also, it's not just Americans or even Americans and Canadians, uh, that are affecting the prices. It's now we're going through this, this global game of musical chairs where people are moving from one country to another. Mexicans are going sometimes to other countries. They're going to Europe, and Europeans are, are exploring, uh, other countries. Some of them are coming to the US, some of them are coming to Canada, some of them are going to Mexico. Less are going to the US and Canada now. Uh, you have people from, you know, from Argentina coming here. You have people from all over the world coming here really. It's not even just the- I'm glad Yeah

Tomer Klein

I'm glad you brought that up because in Argent- in Mexico City, I see a ton. 'Cause I'm also, I'm kind of in a bubble in the Jewish circle, so they don't really look at me as, like, being American. I'm also speaking Hebrew with my wife and other people, so they know that we're Jewish. It's very visible that we're Jewish. We... I run into Argentinians, Europeans, and the argument forever when we were kids, "Well, these people are coming here to take our jobs," you know, the South Park episode, all that kind of stuff. And then I'm looking at it, I'm like, "Well, the flip side just happened." Now you got a bunch of Americans and Westerners going, like you're saying, to this musical chairs of just moving around to these different countries. So I, I, I think a lot of it's hyped up worse than what it really is. Just like when they had that, um, when they killed the, uh, one of the leaders of one of the cartels- Yeah it was for, like, a p- period of six hours They made it much worse, and then, I mean, no civilians were killed. I knew Israelis who were actually- I think there was

Justin Keltner

one. I think there was one civilian death- One civilian where there was a bi- there was somebody, like, in the middle of all of it, and then, but, but that was also accidental. That wasn't even intentional. They weren't targeted, yeah. No, not at all. There was no civilian targeting at all, and there were still rumors happening saying, you know, they, they sh- they have the airport. People are hostage there. There's, like, shoot- 100 hostages shooters, and, like, it was just all completely made up BS, uh, by the media, and in fact, even Fox News, uh- Yeah days after w- were p- was posting, it was either AI footage or I heard that there was footage taken before from, like, some type of scare that happened at the airport or some sort of threat there that wasn't even related to that event or on the same day or year, and they were- Yeah replaying that footage. All the news stations were- Yeah Fox and whatever, as if it were actually happening. Even after it was verified by the independent journalists, by the airport authority here that it was it was literally made up, right? Yeah. It had nothing to do with the events. And we were here, I mean, we didn't really see anything in our area other than the stores basically shut down out of an abundance of caution for a day, and there was one convenience store, uh, a few miles from here, the Oxxo, that was burned down 'cause they like to target Oxxos. I hope they have a really good insurance policy, 'cause every time there's, like, riots like this... But it's very rare. I mean, it happens maybe once every few years when they- Yeah capture, like, a head, a head guy. And like- Yeah I said, I, I know, well, we do know, in fact, intelligence-wise, uh, that the US was also participating. Involved, for sure. Yeah, involved, so.

Tomer Klein

Yeah, and, and the other thing, too, is, uh, I mean, I guess as a government they're doing their job, right? If they're going after the bad guys, that does say that your tax dollars are going somewhere. But again, I, I just, I never felt a moment, and I crossed over. I had driven back in 2010 before I went to the US Army. I drove to Panama Um, and the day that I crossed over into Juarez, Mexico in 2010, there was 11 murders that day, and they were, like, hanging people. This is back in the day when they were like, you know, hanging people from bridges and stuff like you were saying earlier. Um, I don't know. Was that before we started or after?

Justin Keltner

Yeah, I mean- But I did- like, has that e- I did research on it of course they blow it out of proportion still, right? Yeah. Like, has that ever happened in Mexico? Yeah, in certain towns, in certain years. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's not a daily occurrence. Yeah, and the other thing

Tomer Klein

too is, like, that day that I'm driving, I remember 'cause I had my windows down 'cause, like, you know, a- AC is not widely as used as it is in much throughout the West, and the amount of smells of food and life in the street, and this is like one of the deadliest days of that year that they said, and there's people still out walking around. You know, taco stands are up and going, tortillas go- I mean, the whole thing, and then I just drove down and made my four-month trip I did, you know, down to Panama City and back. And the only time I ever had trouble on all of my travels, I was in El Salvador in a place called El Cuco, and I'm pretty sure the lady that was talking to me, um, 'cause she had a clean English accent, and I think she got deported from the States. And I put my bag in my hotel room, I'm sitting on the beach, and I'm pretty sure she was casing me, and they just took... I had a made-in-El-Salvador knife that I would travel with. Um, you know, it's like utility knife, cooking, if I needed it for protection, whatever. Mm-hmm. Uh, that and they took an iPod or an iPad, and that was it. Like, and that's the only time ever in my travels that I ever had any kind of, like, serious, like, threats to deal with. Other than that, I mean... And that was in El Salvador in 2015 when it was like- El

Justin Keltner

Salvador now is pretty safe, but back then it was one of the most dangerous places in the world. In the world, yeah. And, and- Way d- more dangerous than Mexico, for

Tomer Klein

sure. Yeah, way more. Way more. And you know what? Even then there was American colonies, retirees. Like, a bunch of my listenership is retirees. So I hope when they, they hear these type of interviews, they realize your town where you're at, there's a guy I follow, uh, you know, Nomad Capitalist? Yeah. He's kind of like a big, big deal in our industry. His father lives there. I watch his videos. Yeah. Oh, really? His father lives in where you're at, yeah, for like half the year. Um, but I guess there's a lot of, like, retirees that live down there as well.

Justin Keltner

Yeah. Actually, the Lake Chapala area, and specifically Ajijic, which is just about 20 minutes down the road from us, 15, 20 minutes from here, is the largest settlement of American and Canadian expats- Mm-hmm anywhere in the world- Really? outside of their, their home countries, yeah. Yeah, right. What, what- We're right down the street from it

Tomer Klein

what's the cost of living to live in a place like that, do you think?

Justin Keltner

It varies a lot, right? We live a little bit m- you know, more in a, a slightly more rural area, although we love it here because these are some of the only places that you can have a view of the lake, like the one, uh, behind me here. And you've got a lot of peace and quiet. And ev- even with that, we still get fiber internet, gigabit. We still get electricity here that's fairly reliable and, and all the other services, right? It's not like we're, you know, we're off grid either. Um, but where we live, we live very comfortably for about $2,000 per month, and that's both my wife and I. Really? Including rent. And that, we don't live, like, that conservatively either. I mean, we, we get massages every couple weeks to the house. We'll get, uh, usually barbers or nails or whatever that. Like, they'll also come here. Uh, we're, uh, we've got a housekeeper that comes and cleans and cooks twice a week. Mm-hmm. And that's, yeah, I mean, all, all of that included, you're, you're under, like, 2,000. The rent is, even now with the, the peso being a lot stronger than it was a couple years ago- Yeah uh, we're still paying under $700 a month for rent in a two-bedroom condo, gated community, view of the entire lake. I mean, it looks, it's like the, when it's a little overcast, it's like you're in the San Francisco Bay with a view of the ocean. I mean, it's, it's- Wow pretty epic.

Tomer Klein

What, what is your, what do you do for work down there? Or do you just work remotely? So,

Justin Keltner

yeah. So, so our background, Amanda ha- actually had a sales training company for about 15 years before we even met, and then I had a marketing agency for about the same time. Uh, but since coming down here, we have shifted a lot the last few years into helping other expats, because the second that, you know, we, we moved down here, each of us started getting questions on all, all of our- uh, all of our respective socials. Things like, "How did you move down there? Why did you go down there? Are you ever coming back to the US?" Uh, people were even saying things like, "Can you find what you need there?" As if, you know, there were no stores here and we were, we were riding around on donkeys. Um, and we said, "Yes, we can walk to the Walmart. We have grocery delivery. There's Uber Eats here." Like, we- There's Amazon um, yeah, we get Amazon next-day delivery here, even, even up on our mountain. Wow. And we're, we're not in a city, either. We're in a s- a tiny little town of, like, 3,000 people. Um- Really? so all the services, yeah, all the things you need are here. And so people were asking us questions like that, and then we just decided to start a YouTube channel answering all those questions so that we wouldn't have to necessarily handle them all, you know, coming in Facebook and everywhere else one by one. We did that, and then somehow we managed to turn that into a six-figure business within less than six months of taking it seriously. Uh- Yeah and that was how, kind of how it started.

Tomer Klein

I was thinking also for, um... So I have a heating and air conditioning business. I'm kind of at the point I could run it remotely. Of course, people are always wanting to buy me out. I always run in my mind hypotheticals. What if I sold? What if I just run it remotely? These kinds of things. But w- as a trades guy, what opportunities do you think are down there? I mean, I've seen personally in places like Playa, Cancun, Sayulita, Mexico City, um, Americans, Europeans, they have construction businesses down here and they're making, like with these flipping of these homes and flipping of condos, they're making hundreds of thousands, if not over a million dollars a year. Like, I know people in Mexico with real wealth. Like, you go through Mexico City and, like, Polanco and, uh, what was, what was the other famous one? It's like a Ch, Chapultepec or whatever. It's one of these other neighborhoods. Mm-hmm. And the homes are like Beverly Hills. Like, people would not ex- You wouldn't, you would think everyone's living in, like, a shanty town, you know? But, like, it's the slums of Tijuana, and these homes are, like, 8,000 square feet. You know, 800 square meter. Just massive homes in the middle of, like, one of the biggest cities on earth, and there's a ton of money being made. And it's not drug money. Everyone says, "Oh, it's because of the cartels." I'm like,

Justin Keltner

No, they're- Some of it's definitely drug money. Just not all of it. If we put a percentage, right, what would we say? I don't know. But it's not- 50/50, maybe less. 50? Yeah. It's like, uh, Colombia in the f- in the '80s, you know? Um, but no- No, no, not quite. I mean, there is, there is a lot of money here, and there's definitely a lot of legitimate money. I mean, in fact, we're, we're about to start a deal now. We're just signing the, the rest of the paperwork with the developer here who's local, literally from Jantecenk, here the, in this local area who's about to do a 74-unit development where they're gonna be doing all the infrastructure and the community areas and all that, and then selling these lots. So we've already bought one. Uh, we're gonna be helping them sell it, like, through our marketing agency and through the connections that we have. I mean, they're self-funded all, all by, uh, you know, Mexican investors. There's another group that we're in talks with now. We're gonna be helping them move, uh, a lot of units here in, uh, here in Chapala, in Guadalajara, in Busarias, in Guayabitos. Uh, they're the, the Placencia Group, so they own some of the largest auto dealerships in the country, and they also have, I mean, just massive developments. I mean, some of them are, you know, 30, 40, 50 units. Others are, are even larger, um, but they're all over the place. And same kind of thing, you know, one of the we- wealthiest families here in the Guadalajara area, which is the second-biggest city in Mexico. There's, there's a ton of business here. Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of people say things like, "Well, you're paying 36% in taxes," but I doubt that the, even the legitimate businesses are really doing that because, of course, the tax code was written for business owners. Um, to answer your question about, hey, if somebody's, you know, in, in a trade, can they make money here? I would say yes, but with a caveat. Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily expect... Like, I, what I would do is I would make my default trying to still figure out how to have revenue coming in, let's say, from the US, from Canada, from wherever you're, you're coming from because you don't necessarily wanna be competing on labor rates with locals. Yeah. It's not, it's not the best way to, to do business. If you're really g- like, let, let's say someone your age or my age where you wanna come down and start a business and hire people and, like, actually build something at scale and you've got capital to deploy to do that, sure, absolutely. I mean, it, this is a great place to have a business. Uh, it's not as... Some things are easier than the US, some things are harder. I'll give you an example. Business-wise, uh, we've had friends, for example, that have opened hair salons, right? Or, or, or nail salons or, or small, uh, you know, small businesses. They could get the, their permits in as little as six weeks and be up and running in, in that time. Like, one to two months you could have an entire business, storefront rented, uh, permitted, everything you need done. I mean, that in LA Three months, six months, nine months plus. I mean- Mm-hmm God forbid if there's any health department involved or- Yeah coastal commission or anything of that nature, then obviously even longer. Um, so a lot of things are, are faster here. Some things like opening a bank account sometimes, you know, they tend to be because there's more fraud and things like that, so they tend to be a little bit more difficult. You've gotta call Spain and do a video call with Spain on occasion, right? Mm-hmm. There's little, there's little idiosyncrasies like that. Um, but overall it's, it's e- just easier to get stuff done I think. Yeah. And, uh, in terms of business opportunity, there is a ton of business opportunity on the ground, especially if you, you know, you, you are bilingual like we are. We speak English, we speak Spanish. Uh, we, we're very good at integrating into the local community, networking. So absolutely, whether you're, you're serving expats, uh, like we are, um, that's, that's probably one of the biggest opportunities is to, is to help other expats. I would say here's, here's another thing, and, and this might apply to you as well, Tomer, which is maybe you can sell the business. It depends- Mm-hmm right? Like, what, what multiple? I, I won't get into the me- mechanics of all this, but we do work with a lot of people in the acquisition space as well, and typically you're looking at a given multiple of the SDE or the EBITDA of your business. Mm-hmm. And if they're offering you a fair multiple and also an amount of money that you could take and then let's say deploy somewhere in Mexico and do something even better with, great. I mean, it might not be a terrible idea. If not, which, you know, sounds like the case 'cause there are a lot of businesses up for sale now, especially in that space, especially from, uh, baby boomers that are all retiring and they can't find kinda next of kin to take over the family business, well, you can absolutely run it from here. In fact, we actually have a couple that, that own a plumbing company. Mm-hmm. And they're in, in central California, and we're helping them figure out how to strategize, market, uh, to expand things a little bit before they go, put in place some ownership there and train them, put into place some technology and some systems so that they- Mm-hmm don't necessarily have to be involved in all the day-to-day operations. You can absolutely run a business remotely, and I think that's one of the best opportunities just because of the arbitrage that you get.

Tomer Klein

Mm-hmm. Especially 'cause like you said, with the arbitrage your money just goes so much farther down there. You can... If you can live in a place like Playa, which is basically in my world nine months out of the year it's paradise. You know, if you live in a place like in Quintana Roo or Yucatan, over in that area, um, yeah, instead of having to spend 8,000 a month to live and you live on three, you know, you can just... The compounding factors of reinvesting that money are just like... You, I don't even know if you can put a full value on that, you know? Um, how many, how many of the re- how many people moving there are retirees, and how many of them are people who are, like, in the millennial generation?

Justin Keltner

So a lot of it up until now has been more of the retirees and people that are semi-retired, although we work with a lot of high net worth individuals. Like, our average client has anywhere from 5 million up to 10-plus million in liquid net worth. And so a lot of those guys are in, you know, their late 40s, early 50s, up, up to their, their 60s and even older. And they may or may not be, quote-unquote, "retirement age," but they've got enough money where they don't really have to work again. So they'll come down here. And many of them will actually still want to start a business or do something just to keep busy. Mm-hmm. Because we see, uh, the, the people here, you know, there's a lot of like let- let's say Mexican American retirees and things like that, and, you know, they'll... If they're not doing anything, like, they'll, they'll kinda waste away. They'll get into drinking and other, other vices. And it's like, well, you gotta, you gotta kinda keep doing something. Like, I never plan on really retiring 'cause I just love what I do so much, and I love business, and I love networking, and I love building software and creating value and, like, doing all these other things that we're doing that relate to, to our core business. Um, so up until now, it's been more of that older generation, but it's changing dramatically. Like, in the last 18 months, we've seen a huge shift where there are a lot more people even in their, their 30s and 40s. Less in places like Ajijic, for example, because that's just... It's such a well-known, concentrated, uh, hotspot for expat retirees. But in cities- Mm-hmm like Guadalajara and Mexico City and Playa del Carmen, we're getting a lot more young people moving there. And even out here in Jocotepec, we're... Just from our YouTube and a, and a lot of the other media that we've been on, we get recognized on the street maybe one out of every two or three times we go out, just because people- Sure will remem- you know, see us from the channel and all that. And a lot of them are younger people. And a lot of them are, are in their 30s or 40s, and they have got a software job that somehow they convinced their employer to let them work remotely from another country, which is, has been getting harder since post-COVID days, for sure. Uh- Yeah but maybe they've got that. Maybe they've, they've got wealth in, in crypto. Uh, they got lucky there. Maybe they're day traders, right? Uh, so they've got different things that lend itself to working online without necessarily the overhead of a corporation telling them, "You know, you can't work from this place. You can work from this place. You can't do that. You can do it," whatever. Um- Mm-hmm so they, they have a lot more flexibility. And that's one of the things that we teach people as well, is really, you know, if you're not retired or if you're not at the point where you've got, let's say, half a million or more in net worth that you can show the Mexican government to even get your residency in the first place, then we also help people build those remote income streams so that you could get your income to the point where not only can you qualify for residency, but you can actually sustain yourself and your family while you're living abroad.

Tomer Klein

Okay. What changes do you see coming to... 'Cause in one of your videos you made a mention that They almost now have a large influx of people that are bringing value to the country, both economically and, you know, the skill sets that is making the country more and more like it's rising on the, on the level of, um, uh, quality of life is just getting better and better. Um, what, what do you see happening in the near future? I mean, I think when I got in it just had cha- or we just missed it by 2,500 a month or 2,000 a month. Mm-hmm. To where they wanted to see like 4,380 a month. We were able to qualify without a problem, but I can see them saying like, "Hey, if you're gonna start getting temporary residency, we're gonna wanna see you six months a year." Do you think those days are coming or

Justin Keltner

Very possible, and we've been talking about this a little bit, like they've already been tightening the restrictions. And you mentioned, you know, hey, expats are coming here and things are getting better. I wouldn't even necessarily say that there's a direct correlation between expats coming and things getting better because- Mm-hmm like, like I mentioned, you know, most of the people coming here aren't starting businesses. Most of the people coming here, maybe they have a skill set, but the vast majority are retirees or they're working outside of the economy and they're bringing some money, yes. But Mexico is growing independent of that. I mean, if you look at all the, the huge infrastructure projects that they have, like the intercostal, uh, train system that they're in the process of building between the east coast of Mexico and the west coast. Mm-hmm. It's gonna compete for the Panama Canal. I mean, that's going to be billions, if not trillions of dollars in revenue, where you can have a ship just dock at one port, transfer your container to a train, have the train take it all the way down to the other coast. And you don't have to pay all the, the crazy fees of the Panama Canal, which we should have never given them th- that back, by the way. Yeah. That's my opinion. We should have never given that back. We should have held onto that, um, as America. But, uh, you see things like that. You see the, the Mayan train which, which is bringing a ton of tourists to that, that entire region. Uh, the other thing that's been massive in the last few years is nearshoring. Mm. One thing that COVID did, other than show people that they could work online and, and open up the world kind of as a, as a playground for a lot of remote workers, was that it just proved how risky the supply chain was, especially- Yeah when companies in the US and Canada, and even in Europe, were having things manufactured somewhere like China, and then having it shipped all the way or halfway across the world. Uh, your, your shipment even under nor- normal circumstances might take two, three, four weeks to reach one point, uh, and, and reach its final destination. Now a lot of those companies are coming to Mexico, not just because of really good trade agreements now, like under U- USMCA, uh, with the US and Canada. Mm-hmm. But also because the supply chain risk is significantly reduced by- Yes being able to manufacture things right there on your doorstep, right there in your backyard, and then have shipments delivered in many cases, uh, in those, uh, those, those border manufacturing, uh, companies, the maquiladoras, within the same day- Mm-hmm compared to weeks. So it takes a bunch- Yeah of the risk out. So Mexico's growing on its own, and that's why they're starting to get so more, so much more strict, and that's why we tell people all the time, uh, I'll, I'll drop, you know, just a, a quick link where people can contact us as well. If people are- Mm-hmm interested in support, they can go to entrepreneurexpat.com/consult to talk with us about how to do this- Mm-hmm because the time is really now to actually take that first step since it's getting more difficult. At the very- Yeah least, you know, you're, they're increasing the income requirements by 10% or more every single year. In some cases even more than that. Uh, they also got... completely went away with a program called the Regularization Program just in the middle of last year in 2025, where you could be in Mexico on an expired tourist visa- And you could basically regularize your stay in Mexico for a few thousand dollars with attorney's fees and government fees and everything else included. They went away with that because- Yep they don't really need expats anywhere near as much as maybe they did before, before all this economic expansion. And also, generally speaking, they just want people with money. That's why in our target audience, like I mentioned, is people with a few million dollars in the bank at least. Uh, because if they do change the requirements tomorrow and you've still got double or triple the minimum requirements for Mexico, you're still okay. Yes. And our reputation remains intact because we've got 100% success rate helping people do this so far, and we wanna keep it that way. Yeah. So we, we turn away clients every single day where they're like, "Oh, you know, I've got 80,000 in the bank. I can kind of just barely qualify for temporary residence for one person." I'm like, "Here's a course," you know, or, "Here's another package," or, "We'll refer you to someone else." Uh, or you know, "Here, here's where you can kind of learn about it. You can probably maybe figure it out on your own." But we can't take the re- reputational risk. You know? That- Yeah because it, they are... Every single week we hear about new changes. I'll- I- give you another quick one, which is that, uh, just last week we had a client that was here in the Chapala area. We had his visa in process, his permanent residency, and typically it was only taking three or four days max from the time- Mm-hmm that somebody landed here to the time they gave him their card. Uh, they were able, we, we were able to kind of pull some strings, get his residency card finished before he had to leave the country and, and go back to, to some business in the US. But now they're saying you have to be here for potentially up to 30 days. Yeah. So they're making it harder. They're adding requirements. They're changing the whole game. Yeah. So people should act now if they, if they want to.

Tomer Klein

Yeah. I am glad. At first my wife kind of thought I was crazy doing these residencies to citizenships Oh, let's dissect everything we're saying. So this goes into my show with what a lot of people get ex- um, will, will understand and agree with. Um, i- kind of the... It goes a little bit against the not America first, like I do believe in it in a sense, but I'm talking if you wanna have any kind of, uh, hegemony and be strong, you still have to have a labor force that's a cheaper labor force. Now, what's the best thing to do is they, you know, kind of built the Chinese middle class from the '70s forward. What should we do is we should probably look in our own backyard. Just between the state of Arizona and the state of Sinaloa, the, and that border each other, just in produce they're doing between three to four billion dollars a year in trade. That is just one small asset or aspect of the economy that we're talking, just produce. So imagine if we have manufacturing done here instead of a lot of your cheaper car parts or your air conditioning parts being done in, um, places like in the States, and you wanna bring the cost down, it can be done in states like Chihuahua, Sinaloa, uh, Chihuahua, and it's gonna have multiple good... It's gonna have like a ripple effect on the economy in a positive way. People will be less likely to turn towards crime. It's gonna increase the middle class, it's gonna increase the quality of living. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And Mexico has, I think their, their cost rate is about a third, right? Roughly 25%, a third of the cost of what it is in the US for labor.

Justin Keltner

Is that- Yeah, depending on the area. It, it's around there and, and also, uh, you look at China, and China's cost of manufacturing and cost of labor overall is, is going up significantly. Yeah. Plus the- Not even just the availability. Yeah. Yeah. And the, and the travel, so that's what's causing some of those shifting tides, too.

Tomer Klein

Yeah. And I, I just look and, you know, I've done a lot of backpacking and travel and stuff all through Central and South America. I mean, I'm... You're starting to hear places like Honduras, Guatemala, like they're starting to open up to wanting these American and European firms. I mean, I think it was Scheinbaum and them just came out and did a trade deal between the EU a couple weeks ago, between the EU and Mexico for like, uh, beef products and other manufacturing products- And cars as well 'cause they're all going offline from China as well.

Justin Keltner

So- Yeah. There's a lot of car manufacturers, like even BMW is now talking about having their cars manufactured here. We already have a Volkswagen plant, I believe it's in Monterrey- Mm-hmm uh, near, near the border with, uh, with Texas. And so- Yeah everything. And, and I, I think it's great for Mexico that this is happening. Yeah. Um, maybe not so great- Also great for America

Tomer Klein

also.

Justin Keltner

I think it's good for- Yeah it's good for

Tomer Klein

both parties, I believe,

Justin Keltner

you know. It is. I, I agree. A- and- I, I, I hate to say it, but this whole idea, I mean, whoever your favorite president is- Mm-hmm because, you know, we, we don't love or hate any of them. We're not, we're not like- Yeah uh, you know, associated with any given political party at all, because I think- Mm-hmm they all have strengths, and I think they all have weaknesses. Yeah. Um, but regardless of what anybody is telling you, most manufacturing is never coming back to the US.

Tomer Klein

No. Well, and also too, I heard, I think it was Doug Casey or Peter Schiff, you ever listen to some of these guys? Yeah. They were mentioning that the type of manufacturing that they're talking about, the lower level manufacturing, the US is not at that stage anymore. We are a high-tech country. Like here in Arizona, I mean, you have all these chip manufacturing plants that are moving here now. Mm-hmm. And, um, just manufacturing for all these, uh, you know, different computers, and you know, got Intel here in Phoenix. I think just in Phoenix alone, there's like 25 projects that are over $10 billion each project that are being built. Those days of like a cardboard factory, you know, making boxes are long gone. But those are good for countries like that have been plagued with poverty and, you know, financial insecurity like parts of Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, where these places are being ravaged by gangs and violence and drug epidemics and all that kind of stuff, you know? So yeah, I mean, a lot of the listenership I listen to, they're all free market pe- or that listen to me, they're all free market people. I think most people get it. They... In a perfect world, everything, you could live in a bubble, but we don't, we don't have that luxury to live in a bubble. It's just not the reality.

Justin Keltner

No, and it brings up another thing which a lot of people have been asking us about as well- Mm-hmm which, uh, it's not, not the physical side of manufacturing. It's like the, the digital side and where jobs are going and what's, what's happening with AI. Mm-hmm. And I wanna, I wanna touch on this as well, just because you kind of brought up something that led to that in my mind, which is like- The whole landscape is changing. It's not just certain manufacturing jobs. With the way technology is going- Mm-hmm unless you wanna essentially be ruled by the technocrats- Yeah you need to figure out how to embrace all these tools, and also combine that with a strategy where you're diversifying globally. I'll give you an example. They say a lot that, you know, AI is gonna replace your job. No. The person who knows how to use AI is going to replace you if you don't, number one. And number two, if you want the best of both worlds where, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of crunch happening in the sense of, like, people that, that are not really good at what they do, they're just kind of being pushed out of the marketplace. And it's... I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just the reality. Yeah. And so if you can master, you know, three things I think that are, that are essential for surviving, like, the next 10 to 20 years, and not just surviving, but also thriving. It's understanding how to leverage all these tools and all these changes, whether that's AI itself, whether that's just how tides are shifting, uh, with different companies moving around and everything else. So it's like mastering the technology of how to- Mm-hmm how to really embrace those changes and act upon them and leverage them yourself. I think it's also skills of business, specifically sales. Mm-hmm. You know this, having, having a, a heating and, and cooling company. Yeah. It's all about getting that sale, and then of course making sure the customer is happy. But customer support is really just an aspect of sales- Yeah at the end of the day. And then number three, it's global diversification. Yeah. Because people think, you know, "Why would I need to get my Mexican residency? I wouldn't even wanna move there now, you know, maybe in 10 years." Or they say things like, "It's just not that bad yet. Like, America's still..." Or I should say, the United States is still okay. Mm-hmm. "Why would I wanna get a Mexican residency?" Well- By the time it's not- Yeah or by the time that it's less okay than you're comfortable with- Mm-hmm it's going to be too late. Yeah. There aren't gonna be pathways to Mexico. Maybe there are gonna be pathways to other countries, but every single country that we follow now, whether that's the, the, um, whether that's Mexico, whether that's Brazil, Portugal, Spain, even Albania, they're not getting easier. They're all getting more and more difficult.

Tomer Klein

Yeah. They're all tightening. Every single one of them is tightening. That's why we're doing, we're pulling the trigger on them, 'cause Paraguay's pretty wide open right now. For any, like, retirees or people who wanna come or go move, um, the Paraguays, the Uruguays. You know, 10 years ago you could show up one day, get your residency, three years go by, and you could get a Paraguayan passport. Like, you could naturalize as a Paraguayan. That's not happening anymore. And that's another one of these, like, solid travel documents, like a new ID. You know what I mean? Um-

Justin Keltner

We're looking into it, too. We're looking into to, to Paraguay. Yeah. In fact, we think that either by the end of this year or as early as next year, uh, we're going to visit Paraguay. We're gonna at least get the temporary residence process started, not because we intend- Yeah on moving there- Yeah but because we need to run down that clock on the, the first, uh, the first two years of temporary residence where we don't have to- Yes spend almost any time in the country. And then you can live half-time roughly or more in Paraguay and then get your temporary residence, uh, or even potentially a passport. Yes. So that's our next, like, plan. You know, let's call it Plan C passport- Mm-hmm because it's one of the easier ones. The time in country is relatively low. And by the way, they have no taxes on foreigners- Yes at all. Yes. Yes. People thought of Uruguay as this tax haven and it was kind of sort of good for taxes- Mm-hmm for specifically people earning passive income for a while, 'cause they'd give you, like, an 11-year tax holiday on passive income. Mm-hmm. But if you're, you're owning... Like, let's say you own a US S corp- Even if that company is based in the US, you're still on Uruguayan soil. Yeah. And so you're still gonna be paying active income tax. And now there's no tax holiday or anything like that. They're, they've gone a- away with all of those things because just like Mexico- Mm-hmm Uruguay is becoming more evolved. They've got more money coming in. People are, are going from one country to the other. Uh, they're becoming more wealthy. They're becoming more politically stable than they even were before, and they don't need foreigners as much. Yes. So they're not doing all those incentives, uh, that they were previously giving away. So I think Paraguay might actually... I, I think you're, you're on point there- Yeah for sure. I think Paraguay might, might be one of the best countries in this hemisphere. How do

Tomer Klein

you feel about Panama? How do you feel about Panama?

Justin Keltner

I visited Panama a few times. It's all right. Uh- Okay the things that I like about it are, you know, a lot of people speak English. It uses the dollar, which means- Mm-hmm you know, transactions might be a little bit simpler. Uh, they do have visa programs, especially for retirees. But what I don't like is that it, it has more of a, a Los Angeles, you know, in the Caribbean kind of vibe or, uh, even a Miami sort of vibe. But you don't have... My opinion, right? You don't have the same, like, ah, warmth that you would somewhere like Mexico. Yeah. And I haven't been to Paraguay, so I can't speak too much to the culture. But I've heard that, you know, at least you have that, that Latin American kind of warmth. Yeah. But Panama's very westernized. And I've... Actually, I have been outside of Panama City. So I've spent, I've spent a little bit of time, you know, a few weeks in Panama City. Uh, I've been to Colón. I've been to, uh, a couple of the islands, like off the coast of Colón. I haven't gotten to a lot of the, like, touristy islands, although I hear that those are, those are beautiful. Um, but it's just not... You know, outside of the main city, the main city just does not have that great of a vibe. It just feels like a- Yeah Caribbean sort of financial district, right? Or Central American, uh, financial district. And also things are really expensive. You're not gonna save very much money from the United States. Do you think it's... Wait, they say it's like a third of the cost. Do you think that's true? I haven't been there in close to 10 years. No. Definitely not today, and definitely not if you wanna live better than you did in the US. Okay. And you wanna live in a nice, you know, a nice building or a nice gated community with infrastructure. And even if it was a third of the cost, I mean, here I, I, I think Panama is... It's more pricey than that now for sure. But, uh, even if it was, like here it's closer to a fifth. I mean, to live the lifestyle we're living right now for $2,000 a month, easily we'd be talking 8 to 10,000 in the US for the same- Yeah lifestyle. Well, they

Tomer Klein

say, they say Paraguay is the same way, like you were saying. That's why I was a little taken back, because Playa seems to run a little bit more. Like, we're looking at what it's gonna cost us. Like a nice, a nice condo with, you know, the, the, what is it, the security guard and all that stuff is probably like 12 to 1,500 a month. Like, you could spend 2,000 pretty easily- Mm-hmm at Playa. Is that... Or do you think- Playa's very

Justin Keltner

expensive. Playa's about- Is it? I mean, Ajijic is kind of similar prices. You know, you may pay upwards of 1,000 a month for an apartment, maybe closer to 1,500 or more if you want- Mm-hmm like a nice, let's say three or four bedroom house in a nice area in Ajijic. Uh, although there, there are very few rentals available. Most, most homes, uh, are purchased there if you want a, a single family home. But Playa's one of the more expensive markets. Playa's on par with even, uh, the top neighborhoods in Mexico City. Interesting. How touristy it is, yeah.

Tomer Klein

But the- There's a ton of expats positive, but the positive is though is, I mean, what are you getting? Like, if I have to spend 6,000 a month to live here in Phoenix- You're not gonna down there s- y- you're... it's not even a comparison. I'm right on the beach. I go walking. I'm- Yeah you know, five minute walk I'm going for a dip. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I can't do that here. I'm in the middle of the desert, so.

Justin Keltner

Right. Exactly. And, and to spend, to, to have the same sort of lifestyle, uh, let's say in Miami or somewhere, I mean, the only place that I would even really live in California that has a beach is maybe San Diego, but I just will not go back to California because of the politics and- Yeah and so many other things. You know, it's just not, it's not worth it. Um- Yeah you know, and the, the laws. And it's just, it's j- it's kind of, it's Looney Tunes there. Um, it's, it's run by a, by a bunch of, um, by, by a bunch of, you know, as- asylum escapees, right? Like, that came out of the loony bin and started running California. Like, that's, that's what it feels like every time I go there. Uh- Yeah so... And I mean the leaders, not just the people that are on the- Yeah, yeah, yeah on the streets, you know, of downtown LA harassing you. Uh, so yeah. I, I- Maybe Miami would be, like, close comparison to, to Playa, and it's easily two to three times the price still In, I mean, it's two to three times the price.

Tomer Klein

It, um- Easily Yeah, I mean, I had a friend of mine who moved there and he's spending 4,000 a month, and he says, you know, he left Miami. The style that he was living... I mean, he doesn't even have a car. You know what I mean? 'Cause everything's just walking distance. You don't need to. Taxis are pretty inexpensive as well. Um, it's funny that you said, though, about California. I almost got arrested because I called the cops on someone who was homeless in our laundry room, and I was paying, like, $2,800 a month for this place, and we had not in... I didn't have in-the-unit laundry room. So I was over there in, uh, Willow Glen. Mm-hmm. And it was just a little one-bedroom apartment. This is when everything got really expensive right before COVID. And the guy was just, like, high on some kinda drug, rolling around the floor. I call the cops. I'm like, "I don't know if he's crazy, if he's hurt, or what's going on, but he looks dangerous, and he's in our laundry room, and, uh, he's not leaving." And so they show up, and they just basically told me, like, "Well, if you didn't warn him that you were gonna call the cops, you do that again, we're gonna arrest you for, like, disturbing the peace." And I was like, "Where's, like, the law and-" What? I was like, "Where's the law and order in this place? You guys are nuts." So yeah, California, I know what you're talking about, unfortunately. It's really- Yeah, you

Justin Keltner

can steal now if it's less than $1,000. Like, they're not gonna- Yeah charge you with a felony. I mean- Yeah and, and for that sa- for that same reason, like, all of the Walgreens and shopping malls and everything else, like San Francisco- Mm-hmm I, I'm sure it's worse, 'cause I visited after COVID, but I'm sure now it's, like, even more of the, the stores in downtown San Francisco are probably boarded up. Um, but even when I was there visiting, like, everything was, was closing. Everything was shutting down or shut down. It was just streets and streets of boarded up places. It looked like a ghost town. It looked like a, like a third world country. Yeah. Everybody's like, "Oh, Mexico's so third world." I'm like, "No." Yeah. Uh, we don't have... You, you mentioned, you know, like homelessness and things like that. I would say this is partly because people are so close to their family, but you really do not have, like, epidemics of, of, uh, drugs and homelessness and things like that here at all. Are there people living on the streets? Yes. But you maybe see a handful of them in, like, a downtown Guadalajara or a place like that. They're not aggressive. They're not high. Uh, they're not typically schizophrenic. They're not- Yeah bothering anybody. Maybe they'll ask you for money, but, like, they're not... It's not the same thing. You know? It's like you're walking through the Tenderloin District in San Francisco, and you have to dodge, you know, beer bottles or syringes or- excrement. I'm sorry, I'm sorry to say that. But like it's, it's literally true, and, and it's, it's horrific 'cause I grew up in the Bay Area and I, I, I grew up, you know, e- even in... It was, it's still not great, but it was a lot better than it is today. Okay. And people talk all, all this, all this crap about, you know, Latin America and how danger, uh, dangerous it is, and grimy and whatever, and it's like, no. Yeah. Short of like a few neighborhoods that you don't wanna be in, most of the time you can walk around- Yeah alone at night fine. Nobody's following you, nobody's harassing you. There's not a bunch of crazy people on the streets. Uh, the police, you know, will typically come and handle- Yeah an issue if, if they need to. It's peaceful. it feels peaceful. That, that's the only word. I mean, it feels normal. Mm-hmm. Right? It took us a while to adjust to, to things here. I think our nervous systems were both kinda in shock- Mm-hmm because we were so used to like having to be on edge all the time in the US, and we're so used to like having to look over our back, and God forbid, you know, and you're in a crowded movie theater and you're looking for the exits because who knows- Mm-hmm you know, what- Yeah crazy people with, with automatic weapons will come in and do, or you're in a shopping mall. I mean, I don't feel like that in Mexico, ever. No.

Tomer Klein

Yeah, and most of the places where there is the violence, it's in the border towns and the drug routes. That's really where the problems are- Mm-hmm more times than not. But yeah, yeah, all the things you're talking is exactly what my wife says. You know, she pushes a stroller early in the morning. You know, she never sees homeless people on the street. She feels more safe there than she does here, you know what I mean? And she carries also herself, but you know, she said she was like, "Down there I just never felt the need." I mean, you can also, but that's a different conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, man, um, it was a good conversation.

Justin Keltner

Where can people find you at? Of course, yeah, YouTube. They can find us at Entrepreneur Expat. Entrepreneurexpat.com is our website, or, uh, on some of the socials like Instagram, it's entrepreneur expatofficial. No dots or underscores or anything like that. But if you go to our website, that's the easiest place and you can see them all there. You can see all our videos there. You can contact us if, uh... I know, I know you mentioned that a lot of your listeners were interested in Mexico specifically. We do actually have a full guide on moving to Mexico. If they wanna get that specifically, they can go to entrepreneurexpat.com/mexico. And on the website, there's ways to reach out to us in our, in contact forms and emails and all that if they, if they wanna get in touch or have any questions.