Sustainable North Florida
Discussions with the people building a sustainable future in North Florida
Sustainable North Florida
The Vision for Clean Energy in Jacksonville with Dr. Logan Cross
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Our guest today is Dr. Logan Cross, who leads Renew Jax.
Renew Jax is a campaign to get the City of Jackonsville, FL to commit to running on 100% clean energy by 2050. This might seem like a tall order, but it is one within reach. In fact, 13 other cities in the state of Florida have already committed to running on 100% clean energy by 2050 or earlier!
Join us as we learn about what it will take for Jacksonville to make the shift - including what we need from JEA, our mayor, our city council members and - most importantly - our citizens.
RESOURCES:
New Power Generation Sources in 2024 (hint: gas is only 4%!!)
Jacksonville Climate Coalition
Renew Jax Campaign
Sierra Club of Northeast Florida
Transitioning Jacksonville to Renewable Energy
Speaker 1Welcome to Sustainable North Florida . I'm your host , Laurie-Anne Santamaria .
Speaker 2Going with renewable energy is not any longer going to translate to higher energy costs toward the customer . That was true 10 to 15 years ago . It's no longer true .
Speaker 1Hi and welcome to Sustainable North Florida . I'm your host , laurie-anne Santamaria , on the show today . We'll be talking about what it'll take to transition Jacksonville . Hi and welcome to Sustainable North Florida . I'm your host , laurieann Santamaria , on the show today . We'll be talking about what it'll take to transition Jacksonville to renewable energy . My guest today is Logan Cross . Logan is the head of the Jacksonville chapter of the Sierra Club . He's also leading a campaign called Renew Jax , whose aim is to get the city of Jacksonville to commit to 100% clean and renewable energy by 2050 . I expect this to be a lively discussion . That's pretty safe anytime one sits down with Logan Logan . Welcome to Sustainable North Florida .
Speaker 2Well , thank you , Lori , for having me . I'm looking forward to discussing these topics . They're very interesting to me and very important .
Speaker 1Thank you . So before we get into renewable energy , can you start with your background and how you came to lead the Sierra Club and the Renew Jax campaign ?
Speaker 2Well , my career was largely in higher education and I worked at one of the local universities Jacksonville University and my responsibilities focused on strategic planning and research and effectiveness , and research and effectiveness . And while working at Jacksonville University , I started participating in the Sierra Club on a more active level and I started out as what is called an outings leader . I would lead outings into our natural areas in the region , but eventually took on a leadership role , became the chair of our Sierra Club group in this region , which includes Duval County , st John's County and Northern Clay County .
Speaker 1I think most people listening to the show already understand that the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is what's responsible for climate change . As a baseline , can you give us an idea of Jacksonville's current greenhouse gas emissions ?
Speaker 2If you lump together or Duval County all of the other industry emissions in 2021 , that includes industries like Anheuser-Busch , the packaging plants or the cardboard producing plants , cmc , metal all of them if you lump them together in Duval County , they accounted in 2021 for 9% of the greenhouse gas emissions . That means that JEA alone accounted for 91% of the greenhouse gas emissions by what are called large facilities in the region . If we really want to lessen Jacksonville's carbon footprint , one of the first places you've got to start is JEA , and that's why a lot of our efforts focus on the Jacksonville Electric Authority , which is the utility that serves this area .
Speaker 1Do you have a sense for what JEA is reporting for their total greenhouse gas emissions In ?
Speaker 22020 , jea accounted for over 7 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions . That's in total for all their power plants . The next year , in 2021 , that went down to between 5 and 6 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions . So JEA made some improvements and they should receive credit for that . Let's say , of that 5 to 6 million tons of greenhouse gas emitted by JEA , almost half of them were emitted by one plant , one plant alone .
Speaker 2It is the remaining coal-fired power plant in their portfolio . So that just shows you how outsized the amount of pollution created by a coal-fired plant is . And I think you're seeing that throughout the energy industry . Even Florida Power and Light has almost all of its coal-fired plants on a trajectory where they'll eventually be taken out of operation . So that's why we are so persistent in our pressuring JEA to decommission the Northside Generating Station by 2040 . I can almost guarantee you they'd end up doing it sooner than that . Can almost guarantee you that end up doing it sooner than that , because they're going to find that it costs more to operate the plant than the value that it brings in their energy generation .
Speaker 1So , logan , I would like to start talking about the Renew JAX campaign , and I know the Northside Generating Station is part of that . Before we do talk about it , though , I think it's fair to share with the listeners that I am the current chair of the Jacksonville Climate Coalition , and the Climate Coalition has signed on as an official supporter of the Renew Jax campaign . So with that disclosure , logan , can you give us an overview of Renew Jax ?
Speaker 2Yes , and I appreciate the opportunity to do this . And we call it Renew Jacksonville campaign because , of course , as the name implies , it focuses on a large portion on renewable energy . But it'll go a long way towards renewing Jacksonville's image in the region , the state and the world , because historically , jacksonville has not been characterized as one of the more forward-thinking cities in the state or even in the region . We think that if our city made such a commitment , it would signal to the outside world that our city is embracing its role in reducing carbon emissions and addressing climate change . What we're asking the city to do is to commit to operate on 100% renewable energy by 2050 or sooner . Now , normally that would be a big ask here in Jacksonville , but 13 other cities in the state of Florida have already made that commitment to be on 100% renewable energy by 2050 or sooner . Some of them Tampa and Sarasota have made a much earlier date and for many things in our campaign we've used Orlando kind of as our template . Orlando has its own municipal utility , just like Jacksonville does .
Speaker 1So , Logan , can you talk about that ? I think it's important for people to understand the difference between an investor-owned utility and aowned utility .
Speaker 2So it is one where you can buy shares in Florida Power and Light , and so it is , in certain ways , under the sway of its board of directors and its shareholders .
Speaker 1And it's a for-profit entity .
Speaker 2Right and it is for-profit , and so it's driven by a different set of standards than a municipal utility . Anybody who's living in Jacksonville is essentially , in a way , a partial owner of JEA , because it is our municipal utility . So JEA and its functioning is very important to the city , and so what we really want JEA is to signal to us as ratepayers and to our city leaders that it has a vision for eventually becoming a source of clean energy city to commit to operate on 100% renewable energy by 25th year . Sooner . It cannot do that unless JEA makes a similar commitment .
Speaker 1One of the things to borrow one of your terms that I think is really head-scratching is the new natural gas plant that they have in their plans and part of the reason why , if you look at I'll include this in the show notes there's data from the US Energy Information Administration , so that's not any type of political organization which talks about the new US grid capacity in 2024 . So these are new power generation sources that are coming online in 2024 . And it's only 4% from gas . Gas is just 4% , which is really . It's really hard to understand why we would be putting a new natural gas plant when the rest of the country is not doing that .
Speaker 2That's an excellent point , because that's what makes their reliance on that hit scratching . Because that's not the trend . It doesn't reflect the trend in the energy industry .
Speaker 1Because that's not the trend .
Speaker 2It doesn't reflect the trend in the energy industry and that's just from an economic standpoint , because the reason that the rest of the country is making that switch is because new power generation is less expensive with with renewable sources , and that that is why it's so perplexing when you provide those kind of data to the JA board and to the JEA leadership . They just seemed to ignore it . We started our effort of trying to pressure JEA back when it was developing this integrated resource plan . That's a fairly recent development and it took a full year to develop that plan , and we the Sierra Club , the Riverkeeper and other organizations were included in what's called a stakeholder advisory committee and at that time our ask of JEA was to be at least at 30% renewable energy by 2030 . Our other ask of them was that they set a timeline for decommissioning their north side generating station , and our recommendation was 2030 . They refused to do that .
Speaker 2But now to other things that we asked for , which I think it's important for your listeners to know as part of the campaign is we asked JEA to make rooftop solar at least 5% of their energy generation portfolio . It would allow them to achieve what's closer to a distributed energy model Conceivably . They could do like other cities and start trying to design what are called community microgrids . It would be kind of like a community let's say Riverside and Avondale might be on their own kind of grid and they would have to add energy storage there in the community so that some of that energy that was generated by their rooftop solar would be stored in battery systems where it could be retrieved later . That would make that community more resilient during extreme weather . If the rest of the power grid went down , that community could continue to function on their stored energy .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think there are a lot of co-benefits when you start looking at microgrids or having distributed energy . As you mentioned , resilience is certainly one of them . If you have a hurricane or severe weather come through , if you're on microgrids in different parts of the city might not be impacted . The other thing that's really important is transmission . About 40% of electricity is lost over this transmission line , so if you do something that's distributed format and you're producing the energy closer to where it's being used , then that's actually way more energy efficient .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , excellent point . The longer your transmission lines are for transporting your energy , there's a loss during that transmission process . Energy there's a loss during that transmission process and if you do it more locally , then you're cutting down that transmission loss and you're making the community as more resilient . Jea years ago stopped paying what was called net metering rate for the amount of energy that a homeowner maybe puts in the grid . So they're being compensated less than the state norm .
Speaker 1Yeah , look , logan . I think that's a really important point . In my own personal experience , when I first moved to my new home , I looked at getting solar on my rooftop and I had several people come out and I got quotes and when I sat down it just really was cost prohibitive and I thought to myself wow , this is the sunshine state , why is it not working ? And when I travel I go to Tampa , I go to Orlando , I go to Miami you see these solar installation vans everywhere and they're not in Jacksonville . And it wasn't until I started digging further into the policy to understand why . I mean , there's a very real economic reason for that and that's because FPL and Duke actually are required to do net metering .
Speaker 1Basically , what that means for the listeners is that in most of the rest of the state they have what's called one-to-one , so I have my solar system on my roof . If there's an excess , I'm producing more electricity through my solar system in the day than I can use . When I sell it back to the grid other parts of the state you receive the same amount that you pay . So the price per kilowatt hour is the same whether it's coming in or out , and in JEA it's not the case . So you might pay . You know , say I don't know what it is right now say 14 cents per kilowatt hour , you might pay , and then if you give electricity back to the grid , you're only getting a third of that , and so that is why it's really hard for solar to be cost effective for homeowners here .
Speaker 2To Laurieann , your point . When they stopped paying net metering rate , it really slowed down homeowners adding rooftop solar in this region . They did the math just like you did , and so we're behind other cities , and that's all due to policy by JEA .
Speaker 1Yeah , so I think in this conversation we've got a good understanding of where we're at right now with respect to carbon emissions and how power generation relates to that . In Jacksonville , what can our listeners do ?
Speaker 2Well , one of the things is getting informed . Also , you can spread the word among your friends , your relatives . When you consider a candidate for office , ask them where do they stand on things like climate change and renewable energy type things , because eventually the city is going to have to decide now where it wants to go with this . And then the other thing they can do you could get involved with campaigns like Renew Jacksonville campaign or you can start going to JEA board meetings . Jea boards is a body created to provide oversight for JEA . They have a public comment period where you can go and speak . And it's amazing that when we first started going and speaking to the JEA board I mean we were a complete novelty they had not had people showing up and talking during the public comment period . Jea , when it was created , had the mission or purpose statement to provide affordable and reliable electricity . Nothing was said about how that electricity is generated .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think , logan . I think that's a really good point , and I have heard you speaking in the community at other events , you know making that same point . So there are a lot of really good people at JEA that are doing exactly what the mission is asking of them , and I think that it's up to us as citizens and as taxpayers and as ratepayers , to be pushing at the city level for that mission to change . Can I make ?
Speaker 2another point , lorraine , that I think is important is you've got a mayor now in this city who is very pro addressing climate change and carbon emissions reduction . I've been informed that she's going to join a group called C40 , which is essentially mayors around the world in different cities that are committed to carbon emissions reductions . So she's drawing a line in the sand saying she wants carbon emissions reductions , and I am told that eventually she's going to declare some of her climate goals and I want the people that are hearing this to support her . When you've got a leader who's willing to do this , and maybe she posts a lot of her goals on social media or whatever platforms , the only people commenting on that aren't the people who are decrying this agenda .
Speaker 2We're at a very important point here in Jacksonville . This is a real rarity that we have a mayor that would take a position like that , and I do think it's incumbent upon the people in this region to support her . When you got your main leader in this city who's taking a stand like this . Now she's going to have a battle when she tries to get the city council to take any action on this , and she's going to need people out in the voter base saying , yes , we support what the mayor is asking for . So I do think that that's very important and I hope that people , especially those people who are very engaged in social media , will drown out these other people who will be the naysayers when she comes out with this type of thing .
Speaker 1I think that's a really good point . Thank you for bringing that up .
Speaker 2Well , I do want to applaud some of what's going on . And another thing about your mayor is she has created a position called the Sustainability Manager . That's a position that didn't exist before and the dialogues I've had with her , they're making good efforts , working with the Jacksonville Transit Authority , which is a major source of carbon emissions , to help them transition , reduce their carbon emissions by transitioning to lower emission vehicles , evs and things like that . So that's a good plus and the city is being very instrumental in this . It's also working with the Port Authority to start trying to help it transition to electrical vehicle types of systems where you're less dependent on your carbon emission sources
Promoting Clean Energy Transition in Jacksonville
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1I know one of the asks of the Renew Jaxx campaign is for the city to commit to having all of their operations on non-fossil , on renewable energy . Basically , one of the benefits of that is that that then acts as a catalyst for certain things to happen in the city and in the city's economy so that it makes it easier . We're going to transition all of our fleets to electric vehicles . Well , that means that they have to be putting in infrastructure , and once you kind of start that , you begin to have the workforce that's available to do that , you begin to have economies of scale . That makes it less expensive for small business owners and for just residents in general to transition themselves to electric vehicles and things like that . It really is important .
Speaker 1Once a city makes the decision to do that , so many other things end up falling into place . I'd like to actually address a couple more myths . You addressed one myth that was that renewable energy will be more expensive , and there are a few others that I hear . So one is why are we going to invest in all the solar ? It's not practical . It only works when it's sunny . Can you talk about that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , that's an excellent point . Anytime you advocate for increasing solar , you've got to combine it with the appropriate amount of storage capacity . Yes , we recognize that we've got to have some storage capacity as well , but that still makes it very affordable compared to fossil fuel based systems . Makes it very affordable compared to fossil fuel-based systems and when you add that storage capacity , it comes back to Lorraine's point earlier , that you can get your energy more distributed and you can get it closer to where it needs to be utilized .
Speaker 1One more pushback that I hear with respect to solar , and it comes in the form of either we don't have enough land to meet our solar generation needs , or solar is competing for land that we could otherwise use for agriculture . How would you respond to those ?
Speaker 2Well , I think those are all legitimate points , especially in an urban area or , let's say , duval County that's highly populated . How can you get enough land In that instance ? You probably are going to have to get your solar farms in another area and transfer your electricity back to Jacksonville . Now Columbus , ohio , is operating on 100% renewable energy right now . It doesn't own any generating systems . It buys all of its energy from other providers through power purchase agreements and it's all clean or renewable . You don't have to own all your solar fields . You can get clean energy from other providers and maybe FBL sells it to JEA Now , conceivably , if JEA does put its fields out in Baker County or another place , there will be some loss in transmission coming back to Jacksonville .
Speaker 2But still it can be done if there's a will . There are other ways that you can get your solar . How much solar can you capture if you covered a Walmart parking lot with solar panels ? So there are ways that you can do this if you're willing to think innovatively and the other things that your listeners they need to realize . Going with renewable energy is not any longer going to translate to higher energy costs for the customer , any more than fossil fuels would . That was true 10 to 15 years ago . It's no longer true .
Speaker 2And the other thing that I would close with is start voicing your opinion . If this is important to you , you can either do it through your friends , the groups you're in , or whatever Lorianne mentioned earlier the Jacksonville Climate Coalition . There are membership organizations in there that you can become involved in or may already be involved in , and those are ways that you get involved and you show that this is important to you . I think that that's one thing that's been lacking in Duval County and the surrounding area . We haven't had enough people really speaking out and saying this is important to us , this is something that we want . That's why JEA has been allowed to languish . Nobody has been going to the board meetings and saying we want you to do different .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think that makes sense . We have covered many different topics and , I think , actually referenced several different resources , so I will make sure that all of those are in the show notes and I guess , before we close Logan , I really just want to say thank you for spearheading all of this . You definitely are I don't know about the loudest , I don't know if that's the right word .
Speaker 1You're definitely the most vocal person in the community when it comes to this specifically with making sure that we move this city off of fossil fuels , make sure that we're all hearing about it and talking about it . So I want to thank you for all of your efforts .
Speaker 2Thank you , and thank you for allowing me to come on and talk about these things with you all , and thank you to the listening audience . If you're listening to this podcast and supporting this . I think it's a wonderful thing and we need more of this in Jacksonville .
Speaker 1Thanks , logan . Thanks for joining us today . If you'd like to get involved in advocating for clean energy in our community , please consider joining the Jacksonville Climate Coalition . You can learn more at wwwjaxclimateorg . And now today's one good thing . On Thursday , the Biden administration issued rules to dramatically reduce carbon emissions and pollution from US power plants . No-transcript .
