E07 | Tabor and Eli Hemming: Black Canyon and Big Alta

Join us as we talk with Tabor and Eli Hemming, a lightning-fast trail running couple and Adidas Terrex athletes. They lace up the conversation with insights into Adidas trail running shoes, describing their enhanced stability and performance on demanding terrains like those encountered in Eli's back to back first place finishes at Black Canyon 60k and Big Alta 50k, and Tabor's win in the Big Alta 28k. From chatting on their shared conquests on rugged terrains, like nabbing the Joshua Tree FKT, to the daily grind of ranching life, these professional "hobby joggers" share tales from recent events along with their excitement for what lies ahead.

Instagram:
@eli_hemming
@tabor_hemming
@aerobicmonsters

Youtube:
@TheHemmingsrun

Website:
https://www.the-hemmings.com/

Transcript

Adidas Tarex Athletes Talk Equipment

Casey Koza 0:32

On today's episode of the Hobby Jocker, we have Tabor and Eli Heming. They are Adidas Tarex athletes. They race everything from vertical Ks to ultras, they coach and they ranch. Ron, this is maybe the most exciting episode we've done to date. Such an awesome grouping of things that one couple can do. Are you as excited as I am? I am Fastest couple on the planet Fastest couple on the planet, also owning the Joshua Tree FKT. I do like your bio that you are what do you call it in your Instagram? A hobby runner for Adidas Tarex.

Tabor Hemming 1:14

Professional hobby jogger for Adidas.

Casey Koza 1:17

So you've been right in with what we're doing.

Tabor Hemming 1:19

Yeah, we get it.

Robert Myers 1:21

So there's hope, casey, that's what they're saying there's hope.

Casey Koza 1:23

There is hope. Yes, I am wearing my favorite Adidas bucket hat today. It is the only brand that I am brand loyal to as Adidas.

Tabor Hemming 1:33

Restripe life.

Casey Koza 1:34

That's right. So when I was younger I played for a regional lacrosse team in Southwest of Pittsburgh. Another major shoe apparel company told us that they were going to outfit us. About two weeks before. Followed up, the coach said hey, about that, our bad, yeah, can't do it. So we were left scrambling for jerseys. One knew someone at Adidas, and Adidas was there when, like two days, they actually gave us some shoes, they gave us all jerseys. So from that day forward, I was always team Adidas.

Tabor Hemming 2:09

Nice.

Casey Koza 2:10

Great company, very happy to see that they support both of you and they support you both very well.

Tabor Hemming 2:15

You do. Yeah, we're very fortunate.

Eli Hemming 2:17

Yeah, we are so fortunate with how our relationships have been with them, honestly, so it's only been two months now almost three months that we've been working with them, so it's been super fun getting started. We're just about to head out to the team camp, so we're headed to Adidas headquarters Germany, yeah, on the weekend. And then we're going to head out to team camp in Florida, ventura, and get to do some sweet trail running on Little Island. That's awesome.

Casey Koza 2:46

Yeah, we're still. That's cool. You guys have a big release coming up right the new Adidas Super Shoot.

Tabor Hemming 2:53

Yeah coming to the public, which I think everyone is going to enjoy, because I very much enjoyed it.

Casey Koza 3:00

What do you like about it?

Tabor Hemming 3:02

I really like that it has carbon rods. That's super nice.

Eli Hemming 3:05

No, they're plastic.

Tabor Hemming 3:06

Plastic.

Eli Hemming 3:06

Okay, well, you're the shoe guy, you can yeah. So I'm the shoe nerd of the family.

Tabor Hemming 3:12

I just like how they feel when I run in them. And then Eli's like these are all the reasons why you like it. I'm like cool.

Eli Hemming 3:19

Now it brings that Super Shoe Foam over to the trails. I think a lot of companies are trying to make Super Shoes come onto the trails but from the ones that I've tried, the only one that isn't like absolutely you're going to break your ankle is the Adidas shoe. It's hard to manage getting propulsion without making just like this tippy tippy shoe that you feel like you're going to. If you roll your ankle all of a sudden you're going to be on the ground rolling in pain for hours. But it's just one of those things. I think they have done it the best so far. I'm really excited to see where shoe technology goes in the coming years. I definitely think Adidas has the step up on everyone so far.

Casey Koza 4:03

Adidas is the maker of my all time favorite shoe, the Adidas Predator, which is one of the best soccer boots ever made. I don't even think that's really a question, so I'm looking forward to the release of the shoe. I know it's kind of been a not well kept secret by Adidas, obviously, since your teammate both of your teammates Tom Evans, has been running in the shoe for what? Two or three seasons now maybe.

Tabor Hemming 4:26

Yeah, they just keep making iterations and small changes and they like keep tweaking, and I think they're like okay, we're close to the final product.

Eli Hemming 4:35

Close to perfection. We're still working on getting it perfect.

Casey Koza 4:39

I think that's good for the public, because you're getting version four of the shoe rather than version one that needs to be updated four times before. It's a very consumable product. Now you had the shoe on for, I imagine for Black Canyons, correct?

Eli Hemming 4:54

Yep, yeah, I did. It was pretty perfect for those conditions. Again, like putting a plate in an issue, you're going to feel like it's not quite as stable as many other trail shoes. On that stuff it was all perfect. I mean, if you guys ran that first section, you know it had 2,000 people run on it, it mud the day before and then froze, so it was ankle breaking territory, but it was actually like super good. I had a couple of close calls, but nothing really too bad of actually rolling an ankle. And that was after not running on trails for months because we don't have trails in Colorado at this time of year.

Trail Running Challenges and Strategies

Casey Koza 5:35

Yeah, and that course was man. It was technical. I was talking to another runner of your caliber and I told him I was like that showed me what kind of athletes participate in this sport, not just runners, people who can go in a straight line. Tabor, I know you were previously a track runner.

Tabor Hemming 5:57

Yep.

Casey Koza 5:58

That's right. I don't feel like with that second half of the course you could take someone from the track and just put them on that second part of the course.

Tabor Hemming 6:07

Yeah, it tastes like skill Like. I think that's the fun thing about trails is no one can just come over and be like, okay, well, I'm a good runner, so I'm going to dominate. You have to have a skill set, and that's like what makes it fun. It's not just like, okay, if I run 70s on the track, then I'll be able to run X time here in this race. You put them on a trail and it's like, okay, well, there's this variable and there's this variable, and it's how you handle it in the moment and how your competitors handle it, and so I think that's what makes trails fun. It's that like it's not just a formula that you can work out.

Casey Koza 6:40

Yeah, it's, I think, more of an art than it is a science. You can be science-free in your approach to it, but certainly there's an art form. I know it was middle way through the 60k, about halfway through the second part. I was in this canyon and it was running on all jagged rock and the first thing I asked when I got done, my girlfriend and some friends were sitting in the back of the car and I was like, who won? You're like, oh, Eli Heming won. How fast did he go? You know, gave me your time and I was like how did he get through that section like that, Like it was just? It blew my mind at the time how someone can just glide over. It truly did make me in awe of the athleticism that's needed versus the road. So I hats off to you for that and not falling and eating it, but I'm sure you've done that plenty of times.

Tabor Hemming 7:34

Oh, there's been some wonderful falls.

Eli Hemming 7:36

Yes.

Tabor Hemming 7:37

But I wish they were captured on camera because they are very nice.

Eli Hemming 7:42

Yes, Tabor has a great habit of following me right when I'm falling. Honestly, I don't fall that much on the technical trails. I fall on the smooth trails when I'm not paying attention.

Casey Koza 7:54

Yeah, you look off to the side.

Eli Hemming 7:56

Oh yeah, like I'll be like, just like looking at mountains off in the distance and all of a sudden I'm on the ground with a big bloody knee and some scrapes all over my palms.

Robert Myers 8:05

I mean, are you processing the train with every step or are you just kind of going for it and kind of hoping for the best? Because my eyes can't process information that quickly. At least I'm seeing it. Maybe it's not getting to my brain. I just can't move that fast and put my feet in the right place. So when I'm talking to folks as fast as you, which isn't that often, I'm always curious just how are you able to process what's in front of you that quickly?

Eli Hemming 8:31

Yeah, honestly it's been a little bit of both on that one, Teaching your brain how to process that much information that quickly.

Eli Hemming 8:39

I don't think that's a natural thing you don't just have a brain that works that quickly. That's why the best technical runners in the world are people that have been doing it since they were young. Look at Kylian Joyne, a phenomenal downhill runner, technical runner but he's been doing it since he was like four years old. Since he could walk, his parents put him on trails and he's then absorbing what's been going on. It's just a learned skill that we've been trying to run fast over technical terrain for a few years now and it's finally starting to click.

Tabor Hemming 9:09

But I think what else happens is like, say, you're on a bike or you're skiing and you're going much faster than you ever would running and you're learning how to process that information at a very fast rate. So I think that's helped too, because we do a lot of gravel riding in the summer and you're having to process how much terrain is coming through. So I think that translates really well to running, when you start having to pay attention to technical terrain, because you're like oh, I'm going at a much slower rate than I usually process this information, and so I think that's been a key yeah.

Eli Hemming 9:41

Or if you're in a mountain biking. I think same goes for that.

Tabor Hemming 9:43

Yeah, thanks.

Robert Myers 9:45

So it's truly just muscle memory at this point is from doing it, the repetition over the years.

Eli Hemming 9:50

I mean, I think it's you learn subconsciously, like, where to put your foot after trying to visualize where you're going on a trail for so long. The faster you can process the information, the further ahead you can look and then the faster you can run. It starts with okay, I can look a little bit further in front, I know where to put my feet on that one, and then you start processing that, you start memorizing that, your body starts getting really good at that and then you can look a little bit further ahead. So it's just a learning thing that takes a while.

Tabor Hemming 10:20

And I think a good piece of advice that someone gave me is don't look directly down at your feet. Look where you want to go, cause I think when it gets really technical, you immediately like want to look down and be like okay, where should I place my foot? Like right under me, and that just, I think by the end of a day, that would hurt my eyes I'd be like. And so just like looking and seeing, okay, I want it. This is the route that I want to take, and following that route prior to even getting to it.

Robert Myers 10:47

That's great advice, cause I think I'm guilty of looking at my feet, or at least pretty close to my feet, maybe not directly down, but yeah.

Tabor Hemming 10:54

Yeah, it's easy to do. You're just like where should I go?

Casey Koza 10:58

I'm just terrified of falling at all times. I've. I've been at one too many times, and now that I'm a little bit older it's just yeah, I know.

Tabor Hemming 11:07

Now you're a liability.

Casey Koza 11:09

Yes, you know when, when, from playing rugby to ultra trail running, and now I'm more beat up than I was playing rugby. So, yeah, that's, that's rough. Now one of the two of you takes our sport and makes it even sicker. Tabor, this is for you, the the broken arrow sky rate.

Tabor Hemming 11:32

Yep.

Casey Koza 11:33

Yes, so you, you were participant in the vertical. Okay, I do get jealous sometimes of when I watch it. I might be going out there this year and my group message has been silent when I asked anyone if they wanted to sign up for this the vertical. Okay.

Tabor Hemming 11:48

So we need to get you some different friends then.

Casey Koza 11:51

I've been saying that for a long time. I agree, oh, rob, yeah.

Robert Myers 11:57

Everyone's.

Tabor Hemming 11:58

I take offense to that I take offense.

Casey Koza 12:01

You participate in it. And finish third, why it seems like a form of torture.

Tabor Hemming 12:08

Yeah, I think, uh, ooh, why? That's a great question. I think I asked myself that during the race because someone had convinced us to do it. Like they're like, oh, you should go and you do the VK one day and then the next day you do the 26K, and so you really get your money's worth for this trip. And we're like, yeah sure, I'm in the middle of the VK and I think to myself, why did I sign up for this? Like, oh, this is so hard, this is awful.

Tabor Hemming 12:38

But I think, like the feeling that you get after of accomplishment, you're like, wow, you look down and you're like I just ran up that that makes you feel pretty good about myself. But I enjoy running uphill. I don't know, I think I'm maybe wired a bit different than I really enjoy hurting. I don't think that's a normal thing. Like I don't think people should be like, yeah, I really like to hurt, but I enjoy it and it's something that I'm good at. And so that's probably why I sign up for races that are really hard and other people would think I'll go to brunch instead.

Casey Koza 13:12

How do you get down from there? Do you have to walk?

Tabor Hemming 13:15

Um no, they usually have a gondola ride. Unfortunately, the year we did it the gondola wasn't working, but last year the gondola was working, so I think you'll be in good hands. I think there was an uproar the year that we did it. Everyone's, like I, have to walk down.

Eli Hemming 13:29

Yeah, they told us on the start line like everybody's like getting ready to touch their watches. They're like, oh, by the way, you have to run down the hill.

Casey Koza 13:37

I think a lot of people just like oh that's just good race-reacting, because you don't have to listen to the complaining for a while. So yeah, exactly, have fun out there. Let me know when you get back, then you can complain about it.

Tabor Hemming 13:50

I'll be gone eating dinner, sorry.

Casey Koza 13:53

Now you said you had a busy schedule, race schedule coming up. I'm glad to hear that because, eli, you're sharp right now. You're coming off the Black Canyons, the big Alta wins. What do we have in the future?

Eli Hemming 14:05

So big races for the future? We have a few like just little races that are kind of like tune up races. We'll do the Canyon's 50K, Broken Arrow, Iger, and then OCC, and then OCC is kind of our main goal of the year. We want to be fittest and peaking for that and then kind of after that we'll see what the body has in store. We'll see how the body recovers after OCC. We already signed up for the rut, but that's going to be like the directors.

Eli Hemming 14:35

And the mammoth trail fest. I'm not signed up for that one yet.

Casey Koza 14:39

Yeah, you'll get to it. Right, I'll sign up, don't worry. Now is this your first time. I saw you race the Marathon. Do my upload. Yeah, believe it was your channel I am. I have liked and subscribed to YouTube channel. I was watching it this morning. You guys are put out great content. That thing is going to take off.

Tabor Hemming 15:00

We hope, and if not, we still enjoy making them.

Eli Hemming 15:04

You know what, if it I'm really. I'm not great at calling my parents as often as I should, so if they're seeing what I'm doing, they're a lot happier. At least they know that I'm alive.

Casey Koza 15:16

It's funny you say that because it does help. I don't call my mom as often as I should, but she does enjoy seeing my daily activities on Strava. She follows me and I get the kudos from mom and then mom likes all my friends stop. So it does. You know, I feel bad. Then I just it comes up like, ah, man should have called her today. I guess there's always tomorrow. Rob, did you do your homework and watch their YouTube channel? I did. Did you watch the Joshua Tree FKT?

Robert Myers 15:45

Yeah, it's good stuff.

Tabor Hemming 15:47

Well, if you enjoyed the sand at Black Canyon, then you should definitely run Joshua Tree and you will experience even more sand.

Eli Hemming 15:54

There's a lot of sand on that.

Ultra Trail Racing and Fantasy Leagues

Casey Koza 15:57

It was an educational video. I learned what a Joshua Tree was. That was good. I actually didn't surprisingly, for as big a music fan I am. You know the U2 album Joshua Tree. I didn't know what a Joshua Tree was.

Eli Hemming 16:11

Apparently we learned a lot about Joshua Trees when we were down there, because they're interesting trees. They only grow there.

Tabor Hemming 16:18

They only grow there.

Casey Koza 16:21

It was the inspiration, for you mentioned it in the video. Oh, the Dr Seuss.

Tabor Hemming 16:27

Yes, Dr Seuss Dr.

Casey Koza 16:28

Seuss. Yes, I can't move Dr Seuss.

Tabor Hemming 16:29

The Lorax.

Casey Koza 16:31

The Lorax yes, I learned a lot from that trip.

Eli Hemming 16:35

Well, joshua Tree kind of looks like it was invented by Dr Seuss, you know at the end of the day, I think that's exactly what we're thinking running through there.

Casey Koza 16:43

And you did set the couples. I'm not sure how it's labeled on FKT the couples.

Tabor Hemming 16:49

Yeah, they do like mixed gender is how they do it.

Casey Koza 16:53

Mix gender couple rather than okay. So that's, I wasn't sure, because I do look at fastest in a time from time that's pretty big one to take down. I think I can't imagine that one's going to be beat for a while. That'd be tough.

Tabor Hemming 17:04

I would love to see Tyler Green and Rachel Drake go and take it oh they can take it down for sure. I would love to see it.

Casey Koza 17:11

Yeah, that'd be a good one. They'd have a good shot at it for sure.

Tabor Hemming 17:15

Or Katie Shide, and how do you pronounce?

Eli Hemming 17:18

German Granger.

Tabor Hemming 17:19

Yes, we would get destroyed then.

Casey Koza 17:24

They might not like the heat of the sandy desert.

Eli Hemming 17:27

So honestly, when we started so we I mean we did it January 1st it was 32 degrees at the start, like it was pretty chilly getting up the desert, pretty chilly in the morning and it was. It didn't get that warm the whole time.

Tabor Hemming 17:44

I think unfortunately, because we had gone down there hoping that we would see like the sun and we would get to wear shorts and then the whole weekend we were down there it was like super cloudy and overcast. We were like this is kind of cold. We just wanted to see the sun before winter really hit us here.

Casey Koza 18:03

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was pretty upsetting for us Ohio guys that went out to Black Canyon.

Tabor Hemming 18:11

Oh, I imagine.

Casey Koza 18:13

Yeah, it was like come on, we get rain and snow for 10 days at a time and show up there and it's snowing.

Robert Myers 18:22

Like you couldn't beat that sunshine the sunshine at the end. I know it was 28 degrees in the morning, but when the sun came out it was. It was awesome. I thought the conditions were fantastic because the breeze was cool but you still had the sun. It was great.

Tabor Hemming 18:36

No, that race ended up being so gorgeous and perfect, aside from the cold wind in the morning, but otherwise it was an awesome day.

Eli Hemming 18:46

Fully agreed.

Casey Koza 18:48

It was real good till mile 20. Real good, things were humming along nicely.

Eli Hemming 18:55

It was more downhill than I thought it was going to be. I don't know, when you look at, like, the elevation profile of races and you're like, oh yeah, it's generally downhill, you don't think it's going to be like actually downhill. You think like, oh, over that much time it's going to feel flat, but that first 20 miles was straight downhill.

Casey Koza 19:15

That was a lot of fun.

Eli Hemming 19:16

Yeah, I was. I was. I was mind blown by that. I was running down. Like how much downhill I like I didn't actually look at the totals. I was like how much downhill am I actually supposed to get today? Like, are my quads going to absolutely explode by the end of this?

Casey Koza 19:30

It was a lot. Well, that's that's how I sold my friends David the producer here at Rob, that's how I sold them on. I said them the course profiles, like look guys, it's 38 miles or whatever, but it's all downhill.

Tabor Hemming 19:42

Like it's generally trending in a good direction.

Casey Koza 19:45

Yeah, how bad could this thing be Really, I mean downhill.

Robert Myers 19:50

And then afterwards yeah, I think you said it wasn't technical and it was all downhill, and you said that multiple times and then we signed up.

Tabor Hemming 19:58

It sounds like oh, I get me in the things. He's like oh no, it's all downhill, you're fine and you get out there and I'm like lies, it's just a lie.

Casey Koza 20:07

Lies have been told it was. I was maybe misinformed, as maybe we'll say that.

Tabor Hemming 20:13

I will let you know that the VK is all uphill, so we'll let him get you there.

Casey Koza 20:19

I sent it to David and I said hey, I can't even lie this one's. There might be a little downhill on this one in the middle, but it's. We're going from not much to a lot, so you know, buck a lot.

Tabor Hemming 20:53

You know it's only like four miles. So I think that like wins out right Like 38, only four miles, you know.

Casey Koza 21:01

I'm not sure time on feet will be different. I'm not sure it's going to going to particularly help, but you know, hey looks like we'll give it a go. So awesome, and you're. Are you both signed up for OCC? Yes, we are. Yep, we're both ever raced against each other before?

Tabor Hemming 21:22

Um, we've definitely started a lot of the same races. I don't think I'd ever be Elias competition.

Eli Hemming 21:29

But, you've been entered together. Oh, yeah, yeah, most races that we do together.

Casey Koza 21:34

Oh that's that makes. That makes getting someone to sign up for a race a lot easier, like yeah. You know, if I say to Annie, my, my girlfriend, I'm like hey, you know, let's, let's go do this race together, it makes it a lot better than. Hey, I'm running this 100 K and I need you to crew for me. You're going to see me three times in 15 and a half hours. It'll be a lot of fun. Also, it's going to pour and be super cold.

Tabor Hemming 21:59

The wind might be blowing.

Casey Koza 22:01

Possible wind. Yeah yeah, she, uh, her and David bit bit of big bullet for me, so I still owe them both. Uh, they crewed for me at grindstone 100 K. Um, but back to the OCC. This is pretty big race out there. I've been, I've been to it. It's incredible atmosphere.

Tabor Hemming 22:21

Um, I'm not sure how the marathon do Mount Blanc crowd was, I imagine over there they're probably always on the crowd, they come out in full force, like I felt like you're in the Tour de France at marathon, do Mount Blanc, and people are like, oh no, that's nothing compared to UTMB week and I was like where are these people coming from?

Eli Hemming 22:42

How many more people can you fit into a small like Canyon?

Casey Koza 22:47

We couldn't figure it out. We I saw the video of you going up to Laflage year, so we were walking up, hiking, running I guess, and you go through like, I guess, a beer restaurant type cafe halfway up the mountain, very odd. We're just like running up and there's this cafe in midway up the mountain. It's packed, it's jam packed with people drinking on OCC day. The crowd over there, you know, I get, there's been, I guess, some pushback, but the crowd over there there's nothing that rivals it in this sport that I can imagine. But the euros kind of always go above and beyond and I hope you guys are looking forward to it. Oh, we bear much.

Eli Hemming 23:31

Yeah, that's one of the reasons that we want to go is like we want to go and see the environment that we've just heard all these rumors, like exactly everyone goes and says the exact same thing, like it was the most unreal running environment I've ever seen.

Tabor Hemming 23:47

We got some serious foam out last year because, like, every one of our friends is over there either racing or crewing or just like with their sponsored teams, and you're just like, wow, that was the mistake of Niagara.

Eli Hemming 24:01

We were hanging out on the ranch with some cows like yeah, that's not all our friends. Hopefully I'll be able to make it back again this year.

Casey Koza 24:05

I did enter the lottery, did not get in. So next year next year hopefully I'll run the OCC, but I'm really looking forward to you two going out there and doing well and representing the Americans. I'll have you in my free trail fantasy for sure. Oh, thank you, We'll try and not disappoint.

Tabor Hemming 24:23

I'll try and help you in your free trail. Honestly, this is a big winner. Big winner of the fantasy.

Robert Myers 24:30

Oh, thank you, I'll think about this while I'm racing, I'll be like he does, well in these.

Tabor Hemming 24:36

I'm the worst at free trail fantasy.

Eli Hemming 24:40

Every time I'm like in the thousands, nowhere close, well, not to big time or anything.

Casey Koza 24:49

I was the free trail champion of UTM. Yes, yes, I was number one overall. They didn't send me a bib, I should have asked Dylan and Ryan if they would send me a bib for free. Dylan and Ryan, if they would send me a bib for next year that I could wear that week around.

Tabor Hemming 25:05

I'm going to love this Dylan come on, man.

Eli Hemming 25:09

Yeah, we'll text him, we can t-shirt.

Casey Koza 25:12

Yeah, I need a bib or something to my friends are sick of it, they hate it. I mean, there's not a week that goes by where I don't remind them.

Eli Hemming 25:19

Well, that's so great.

Casey Koza 25:22

Yes, please, when you're out there running OCC and things get tough, like yeah, casey's got me and he's got me in the Got to do it for the fantasy I need to do it for Casey. I got to do it for the fantasy. You know, Absolutely.

Tabor Hemming 25:35

Hey, ryan Throar told me before big all day he's like I have you on my fantasy, don't mess up. And I was like OK, but I won't. And then I saw him out on course and I was like I'm not messing up, your free trail fantasy.

Casey Koza 25:45

Appreciate it. That's that's. That's what matters. You know fantasies While the NFL guys go to work every weekend to support the fans? Yeah.

Eli Hemming 25:54

You two are no different Winner wasn't Jim Wamsley, it was, it was Casey.

Casey Koza 25:59

Yeah, yeah, I imagine he heard about it too. If I had a guess.

Tabor Hemming 26:04

I hope he did.

Eli Hemming 26:06

He is surprisingly good at free trail fantasy.

Tabor Hemming 26:09

Yeah.

Eli Hemming 26:10

He's ranked like I think he was like seventh overall last year, like in all of the rankings there's something like that Like he's very good at it.

Casey Koza 26:19

I'm not going to give him any credit for that. So yeah, when he hears that, he'll know why too. So it's personal between him and I and in the free trail fantasy this year. So I got, I got some making up to do.

Eli Hemming 26:32

I think you could take him out. I think you got him.

Casey Koza 26:34

I could like quit forget dinner. It's a big thing.

Tabor Hemming 26:40

Yeah.

Eli Hemming 26:40

I think I for Black Canyon. I think I filled it all out and didn't push some bit.

Casey Koza 26:46

That's a tough step.

Eli Hemming 26:48

You do all that in any just one little thing and it's a perfect course for it.

Casey Koza 26:52

honestly, I'll tell you what that course might be my second favorite course, how fast it is, how technical it gets Kudos to this Aeroviper running for putting on a great event From start to finish.

Tabor Hemming 27:10

All their events. They do a really good job.

Casey Koza 27:13

I think Alta looked like that was extremely well run.

Tabor Hemming 27:17

We'll go back every year.

Eli Hemming 27:19

For a first annual race. That was one of the best races that we've been to. Free trail and day break dude, such a great job we did a really good job and how gorgeous it was there.

Tabor Hemming 27:29

Like I'm not sure if you guys have ever ran in the Marine County area, but those trails you get up on the high mountain tops and you just look over and it's stunning. It's just so much different than anything we have here in Colorado that I think you're like wow.

Eli Hemming 27:45

Yeah, and we did get perfect weather for it. They had like torrential downpour the week before and torrential downpour the week after and just like a few days of beautiful sunshine just for the race. It was perfect. But I will say I will absolutely go back if it's raining a ton, because I think that would be a fun mud course.

Tabor Hemming 28:05

Yeah, those trails are not technical at all. We didn't see one rock. I think that's what made it super enjoyable too.

Casey Koza 28:13

I'll believe you're scouting up work because the year before Rob myself, david and our friend Will went out to Gorge 50K.

Tabor Hemming 28:22

Okay.

Casey Koza 28:23

Also a day break free trail event, and the word Will and I got was oh, it's not a technical at all, it's just nice and smooth and you'll really enjoy it. So I'm hoping your assessment is a little bit more honest than the assessment we got for that race.

Eli Hemming 28:41

I'll warn you, there is one downhill on the 50K. That is a surprise on how steep it is. They called it the whopper and that's where everyone got whopped in their race. It happens after a marathon and you just start going down this like ravine basically, and then you have to climb back up like a thousand feet immediately after. It's a mean thing to do to people that have just run a marathon.

Tabor Hemming 29:08

That's why you do the 28K. Yeah, the 28K is beautiful.

Eli Hemming 29:11

And then?

Tabor Hemming 29:11

28K. You could have just worn road shoes. It was wonderful. It was just like nice cruisey fire roads with good views and you're like, yeah, this is awesome.

Robert Myers 29:22

Well, it's so funny that description of a trail, whether it's technical or not, really it's from your perspective, like where you've run and your area of the country that you practice and train in. I mean, I live in Southeast Tennessee and here, if someone says it's not technical, that just means you can actually run it instead of climb over it.

Eli Hemming 29:44

No, it's California trails, so California doesn't have rocks on their trails.

Casey Koza 29:51

It's the California carpet. Write that one down California carpet.

Tabor Hemming 29:57

Yeah, don't trust Europeans when they say it's not technical. We've learned that a few times. They're like, oh no, it's not technical at all. And we get there and I'm like I'm going to walk down this downhill. I'm like, yes, it is so technical.

Casey Koza 30:11

Yeah, we learned that that was kind of where the gorge not technical came from. I believe was someone who has ran a lot in Europe, so I yeah, you don't trust people.

Eli Hemming 30:22

No, no.

Triathlon Training and Racing Insights

Casey Koza 30:24

And then you ask them about it and they're like, oh, technical, it doesn't matter, you just run it.

Tabor Hemming 30:29

Do you? I'm trying not to die here. I'm trying not to die here for my life during this race, but thank you for letting me experience that.

Casey Koza 30:43

Now, speaking of experiences, one thing I did see you were, were you both formerly?

Eli Hemming 30:48

triathletes I was a triathlete and she was a track and cross country runner.

Tabor Hemming 30:53

Yeah, I don't swim. I'm like a cat in water. I don't do that.

Casey Koza 30:57

I'm with you. I float and drink beer and I don't swim. That's the correct way to do it.

Tabor Hemming 31:05

That's how water should be used.

Casey Koza 31:07

Yes.

Eli Hemming 31:08

I completely agree. I like to say that I'm a recovering triathlete.

Casey Koza 31:12

Right, that one down. You got a lot of good sound lights here. It's a ring triathlete. There we go, and did you participate in that when you were out in Boulder the triathletes or triathlons? Sorry?

Eli Hemming 31:26

So I never raced when I was in Boulder but I did train in Boulder. I was traveling around the world racing kind of all walks of life in triathlon.

Tabor Hemming 31:35

Yeah, I would say you were home like two months out of the year when you did that.

Eli Hemming 31:40

It was a world travel type of place. It was never a race in the US, honestly, oh geez, that's.

Casey Koza 31:48

Yeah, I know I don't know much about because I can't swim either, so I don't know much about triathlons. Heather Jackson's husband I was talking to oh yeah, why did you? Yeah, at Blackhook Super, super cool dude, I can talk to that guy all day and he started talking to me about triathlons. I was like, look, I'll be honest, I can't participate. Yeah, I was like, unless you give me a surfboard to kind of paddle along on, I don't think it's for me.

Eli Hemming 32:13

Yeah, no, and I raced a different style of racing that Heather Jackson did. So she raced like the Ironman distance races. So she was racing like eight, nine hours when she was like going to Kona. All those like famous races. My races were like two hours long at max.

Tabor Hemming 32:32

And that's what you see in the Olympics, yeah.

Eli Hemming 32:34

So that's the, that's the Olympic style of racing, so that's what I would. My ultimate goal was is was qualify for Tokyo Olympics, and I just didn't quite get there.

Casey Koza 32:44

Oh well, now you're here.

Tabor Hemming 32:46

Yeah, it was, it was destiny, it was meant to not happen.

Eli Hemming 32:50

Yeah, no, I'm glad I didn't get there.

Casey Koza 32:53

Did you ever participate in group rides out in Boulder?

Eli Hemming 32:56

Not many. I had a bit of a team that we traveled around with, but I mostly rode by myself or with my with my team.

Casey Koza 33:06

Yeah, the reason I asked. I have a friend who moved out there. He was an Olympian cyclist. I'm going to get this wrong and he's going to be very upset with me. The Velo Drone when they ride on the indoor track, that's what he made the Olympics, the Beijing Olympics. And I was texting him before this. I was like, hey, do you know? You know the Hemings? He's like no, but if they were in a group ride, I probably you know, I probably talked to him.

Casey Koza 33:33

Yeah, I probably chatted with him and Mike Friedman's his name, I think that's his name.

Tabor Hemming 33:38

No, I've definitely heard the name, yeah, but my dad knows him.

Eli Hemming 33:42

Probably He'll be awesome.

Tabor Hemming 33:45

He's huge into cycling and now we put. Now he puts on a gravel race where we live now. But he was a Catwoman cyclist in his day and then just is everybody's buddy. So I bet, I bet he knows him. I'll ask him.

Casey Koza 33:59

Yeah, you'll have to ask if he knows Mike. Mike's a long time friend of mine, listener of the show Awesome and it recently took seventh in the fat bike world out in Leadville.

Tabor Hemming 34:09

So oh wow, that's great.

Casey Koza 34:12

Oh, plug is charity. Here it's Pedaling Mines. He helps youth get bikes out in the Boulder area, so check it out at pedalingminescom.

Tabor Hemming 34:22

Definitely go look at that.

Casey Koza 34:24

Rob you going out to Big Alta next year for the Lopper.

Tabor Hemming 34:27

Oh yes.

Casey Koza 34:28

Yeah, we should. Let's get it on the calendar. All right, on the calendar.

Tabor Hemming 34:33

We'll be there.

Casey Koza 34:35

You're definitely going back.

Tabor Hemming 34:36

Yeah, we'll definitely go back, Definitely.

Casey Koza 34:38

That was such a fun race, returning champion. Did they give you a championship belt for it?

Eli Hemming 34:43

They did not give me a belt. I can ask Dylan. I'll tell Dylan I need a belt.

Tabor Hemming 34:46

They gave you a plaque.

Eli Hemming 34:47

They gave me a plaque, but I need a belt. They had to string over my shoulder like the wrestlers do as they walk in. Walk in and I'll hit above my head.

Casey Koza 34:56

Did you get some entrance music?

Eli Hemming 34:58

Yeah, I love it yeah.

Casey Koza 35:03

Hey, what's your entrance music going to be?

Tabor Hemming 35:06

Oh, maybe like the final countdown. Yeah, I think that'd be it. The eye of the tiger. It's just too cliche.

Casey Koza 35:16

Yeah, that one's. Yeah, that's a little overplayed.

Tabor Hemming 35:18

Yeah, just a little bit.

Casey Koza 35:19

You seem like a window crashing, beer chugging kind of entrance music. The Stone Cold Music. Stone Cold, Steve Austin.

Eli Hemming 35:27

I like it. Yeah, I could use the Stone Cold. Steve Austin, I can see those I had a beer, I had another beer.

Casey Koza 35:34

I had another beer. I'll provide you an Eli 316 shirt for the big Alton next year. So, dylan, you need championship belts. I would never tell anyone how to do their job, but I'll explain that to David later, don't worry. And one topic I wanted to hit with the pair of you. You're also coaching, correct?

Tabor Hemming 36:00

We do yeah.

Casey Koza 36:01

Okay, what one thing that you think can improve the most amount of runners?

Coaching, Ranching, and Life Balance

Eli Hemming 36:11

I would say consistency is the thing that improves almost everybody, just consistently getting out there. I don't think a single training session, a single race makes the athlete at all. You can have one A plus thing and it does nothing for you but going out there and it's kind of like college sees get degrees. If you just get out there regularly, even if it's not for the full time, if you have 15 minutes and you get out there, 15 minutes still counts.

Eli Hemming 36:40

Yeah, it still counts as a run. The more consistently you can get out there, the better.

Tabor Hemming 36:44

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think just being able to stack days upon days of just work, it doesn't have to be sexy. That's why I tell a lot of our athletes, especially in the winter, it's unsexy work. You're not going to get a bunch of CRs, You're not going to get PRs every day, but you're just consistently showing up and putting on an effort and that stacks up over the long term and it pays off come race day. And then it helps with injury too. If you go from I run three days so that I don't run for four days, but I run three days like the body really likes a routine and so if you can give it a routine, it usually really likes you for that.

Casey Koza 37:25

How long have the two you've been coaching?

Tabor Hemming 37:27

Four.

Eli Hemming 37:28

Yeah, so together we've been coaching for like four years and then I've been coaching. I just kind of had like two or three athletes all throughout my triathlon career too.

Tabor Hemming 37:39

So you're probably on like seven years.

Eli Hemming 37:42

Seven or eight yeah.

Casey Koza 37:44

I've toyed with the idea of going the getting coached route. For me it's, I guess, tough because I just like to go out every day and either just go run through some trails, or mostly just run trails, unless it's raining like it is today. Then I actually went around the neighborhood and maybe you could put my mind at ease for this, because you are the coaches. The structure is what I don't want, because I'm not a very structured person when it comes to running. I get out every day consistent, 100% agree with you, but the structure I don't. That's my one hang up with coaching. So how do you guys get around that with your athletes, or are they looking for structure?

Tabor Hemming 38:21

Yeah, I don't think coaching is for everybody, and so, like every time an athlete comes to us, we ask the question of why, like, why do you want coaching? Because some people it's going to be accountability, some people it's they do want structure, someone it's just to let them know that they're doing a good job. So I think, as long as what you're doing is consistent and it's bringing you joy, I would consider it good training.

Eli Hemming 38:47

And for our athletes. We are huge in communication One of the biggest things like we can't be an in person coach to all these people, so we ask them just like if you have scheduling conflicts, just text us and we can help you find something that works for you.

Tabor Hemming 39:04

It's. No training program is ever the same either because, like, people have so much different lives and they also have different races that they're trained for and different race of adaptation and like a million different stressors that they have. So I think that's another thing that, as coaches, we realize is, you can't just put out, okay, this is the 10 weeks to your 5k, and if you don't do it, well, that was your problem. That's not really how life works. So we like evolve every day with our athletes, like obviously they have a plan, but at the same time we're like, oh, okay, we're evolving it. Because they're like I woke up and I have a sore throat. You're like, okay, well, we're not going to do that tempo run that was programmed in.

Casey Koza 39:46

That's one thing that you touch. The other communication. I've looked into it a little bit and it's well part of the package is you get to email me once a month. It's like I'm not going to knock anyone's hustle, like that's fine.

Tabor Hemming 40:00

I mean that's they should be charging like $50 a month, like these coaches that charge $300, and they're like you get one pre-race phone call, you get two emails and you get a trading plan. I'm kind of like, okay, how invested are you in your athlete? Like I guess that's what we want to share with our athletes is we're just invested in them as they are in us as coaches. Like I don't know, I text, like most of our athletes text us almost every day and we text right back Like it's more of a friendship than anything else. But I think that's what builds results, is like that they're out there either in training or in a race and they're working for someone and for something, and it's not just wealth, my coaches. I'm even going to look at this anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

Tabor Hemming 40:48

They like know that we're looking and I'll be like hey, I saw that you changed your run to just four miles, easy, everything. Okay, they're like shoot.

Robert Myers 40:59

So when you're not coaching and running and traveling around the world and you're actually back at the ranch, what's life like there? I mean, it's just so different than the rest of your life. It seems like. It seems like a really cool place. I mean a small town. I live in a small town. You have family, ranch, what? Five generations what is that like on a daily basis when you're home?

Tabor Hemming 41:20

Yeah, we have the gamut Like it goes. I'm not sure if you know much about ranching and farming, but like it goes in seasons so we have chores or work that's dependent on the season that we're in. So, like in the winter, I would say this is our most relaxed season because really all that needs to be done is like shoveling and plowing snow and feeding the cows. They're pretty self-sufficient in the winter, but come like three weeks from now, we have calving season and so we're going to have 200 cows calving out, and so that's when it gets pretty pandemonium, because you have to be on call always. They don't care if it's four in the morning and it's cold and blowing snow out. Like you got to put on your jacket and head outside with your spotlight and make sure everything's okay.

Tabor Hemming 42:07

Make sure everything's okay. So I think that's the cool thing about running and coaching versus ranching is running and coaching you know what to expect most days, whereas ranching it changes day to day and sometimes a lot of what we end up doing is like spur of the moment, things that just like need to happen, like oh, this calf she can't have it out, so like we're going to have to pull it. Or oh, the tractor broke down in the upper meadow, so we're going to have to drive the four wheel up there. And like help my dad fix it. Or there's just a lot of things that go into it that it's always different and not predictable.

Robert Myers 42:48

Oh, it has to be exciting so much variety in your life.

Tabor Hemming 42:50

Yeah, it keeps us on our toes and we're definitely tired every night when our heads hit the pillow.

Robert Myers 42:55

Oh, I'm sure.

Casey Koza 42:57

Yeah, do you barbecue at all?

Tabor Hemming 42:59

Oh yeah, we have a smoker out on our porch.

Casey Koza 43:05

Do me a favor. Send Dave and your address my company that co-sponsors this branch sauce. Friends at branchsaucecom. We'll send you out a bunch of sauces, mustards. We have a great cherry peach sauce. It's my favorite. I'll have the guys at the warehouse put a couple boxes together for you.

Tabor Hemming 43:23

Well, thank you. Well, if you're ever in the neck of the woods, come visit. We're not that far from the hotel. We're only like 75 minutes at that.

Casey Koza 43:33

Oh, that's not too bad. Thank you so much for being on the show taking time from your calving of calves. I said that correctly.

Tabor Hemming 43:45

Yeah, we still get a few weeks of calm before the chaos erupts.

Casey Koza 43:50

Well, good, I'm glad to hear that. I truly wish you two all the best of luck this season. Sounds like you have a very busy schedule. If I should see you out there at the broken arrow, I should be there, so I'll be sure to introduce myself and say hello.

Tabor Hemming 44:06

Yeah, I'm a medium person.

Casey Koza 44:08

Yeah, and I'm absolutely going to try and talk both of you into the article. Okay, okay, maybe.

Eli Hemming 44:15

Yeah, I don't take much convincing if I'm being honest.

Casey Koza 44:20

That's good to hear.

Tabor Hemming 44:21

Yeah, there's a race. We're usually pretty up for it.

Casey Koza 44:24

But thanks again and again appreciate the time.

Eli Hemming 44:28

Yeah, thank you for having us on Fun fun.

Robert Myers 44:31

You guys want to list how our listeners can get ahold of you, like your socials.

Eli Hemming 44:36

You can follow us on YouTube. We have a YouTube channel called the Hemmings. Our Instagrams are Eli underscore Hemming and Tabor underscore Hemming, and we try to link it all together at our personal website called the dash Hemmings.

Tabor Hemming 44:53

And good luck finding us on Strava.