The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E18 | Rise & Reign Training with Coach Jillian
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Experience the passion and resilience of distance running through the compelling story of Jillian Roth Reyna, a former University of Akron NCAA Division 1 cross country and track athlete. Jill shares her journey from the intense world of collegiate athletics to discovering new avenues of distance running and coaching.
Uncover the secrets to optimizing running performance and managing "run anxiety" through strategic coaching and personalized nutrition. Jillian, the founder of Rise and Rain Training and Nutrition, shares key insights on heart rate monitoring, threshold training, and the vital role of strength training in a runner's routine.
Rekindling the Love of Distance Running
Casey KozaThank you for joining us for this week's episode of the Hobby Jogger . I'm joined today by my co-host , Kim Roy . Kim , how are you ?
Kim RoyI'm doing great , I'm happy to be here and I'm also happy to be interviewing and talking to a fellow Akronite . So Northeastern Ohio .
Casey KozaHeck yeah , and we have a big week Kim Burning River Relay . We are the defending co-ed champions of that race .
Kim RoyYes .
Casey KozaWe have to defend the title Saturday .
Kim RoyYes , we do . We put in so much work , drink so many beers and we are ready .
Casey KozaWe do drink a lot of beers . I'm very excited to have our guest Jill Arena . I'm very excited to have our guest Jill Arena . She comes to us from Akron . She is a former member of the University of Akron , cross country and track coach . She is a coach , she has a VO2 certificate , which we're going to get into , because I have no idea what that is , and she is also a mom .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo , jill , welcome to the Hobby Jogger . How are you ? I'm great . Thank you for having me . I'm excited to chat with you guys and talk a little bit about my experience with running and coaching and Akron and the running scene here .
Casey KozaAwesome , you were a member of the Akron cross country and track team .
Jillian Roth Reynacorrect no-transcript talent that I had never experienced . But yeah , I mean , I definitely am the runner . I am today because of those experiences and the teammates that pushed me , and so I am forever grateful that I decided to take that challenge and walk on the team .
Kim RoyYeah , I worked at the University of Akron for a little bit and I worked with a lot of student athletes and I commend athletes while going to school . It is a big commitment . They have strict schedules and helping students create schedules for school is also very limiting , because your practices can be hours and trying to figure everything out so and your schedule is just busy . So definitely commend you . I do have a question what ? What event did you ?
Jillian Roth Reynainteract . So indoors I did the 3k , that was really my specialty . I also did the 5k as well . The 3k was my favorite , and then outdoors , really just the 5k . I never attempted the 3k steeple , which now , looking back , I kind of wish I would have , just for fun , like once to try it . But I think I was always nervous and I think my coaches were too just of like injury , because that race is a little bit just fretful with , you know , the water jumps and everything . But yeah , so 3k , 5k .
Casey KozaThat's 1.86 miles , kim . Okay , yeah , so 3k 5k , that's , that's 1.86 miles . Kim for the right , the 3k , yeah , I had to do some well actually just googled it real quick , but my math's not that big the canton race .
Kim RoyRemember there's a 5k and a 6k .
Jillian Roth ReynaI never understand that yeah , so the 6k , the reason for that with that , um , so at least for the women's race , the reason they have that 6k in there is because for cross country our championship distance in college is a 6k really .
Kim RoyI did not know that and traditionally even for so , for women's and men's for cross country during the regular season is both 5k .
Jillian Roth ReynaThere is no difference between that , correct in high school in high school , Okay , In college , at the beginning of the season . Um , typically most races start out with like we'll run , you know , a 5k for the first two races of the season and then for the rest of the time . Pretty much for the women it goes up to that 6k distance and for the men , yeah , they usually just bump up to the 8k so that we can obviously start practicing it for championship . College . Cross country is a very short season .
Casey Kozawe only have six races , uh , whereas like high school you have like 10 so what can you just say that real quick again the schedule for cross country in college yep , so uh , in college it is every other weekend that we would race , so it turned out to be six races Plus .
Jillian Roth Reynathen , if your team is good enough to go to nationals , then you'd have a seventh race . But we never went to nationals , so six races was always the how many races we had .
Kim RoySo I do have a question . So when did you start really getting into the distance running ? Was there something that really motivated you to go that direction ?
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , so I actually had to take a few years off of running . I experienced a few injuries in college , as many leisure runners do . It's a little bit hard to avoid when you're running at that volume and intensity all the time . My senior season of cross country I ended , unfortunately , with a stress fracture in my tibia which is for those listening if you don't know that your shin and it was pretty bad , like I had some like multiple spots in my shin . So I was . I tried to come back for my final indoor season and I was threatened with surgery because it was not recovering the way that we had hoped . So obviously did not run that season and just took the longest time I ever had taken off of running from when I started , then graduated and I was like I want to do the Akron half , like I've been waiting to do this race we always volunteered at it when I was in college on the cross country and track team so did my first Akron half and had a little bit of shin pain come back and it was also the first time that I was training without a team and you know , thinking I could run the same pace as I did in college after taking all that time off and I was like I need a break . This really isn't the way that I it used to be , like it's different now . And I actually found CrossFit with my now husband at the time obviously we were just dating and he did it and I was like , oh , I'm going to try that out , like something different , and it was really great for my competitive spirit . I was still able to you know , yeah , compete with people , but in a completely new space that I did not really have a lot of experience with and I didn't have metrics to compare to really found that I loved CrossFit . I got very into that kind of took that very seriously for a few years , but I kept doing the Akron half like continuously every single year . So I kept coming back to that . So it kind of kept the fire alive for running a little bit , which so shout out to Akron and for having a great marathon and half marathon , because I will always do that race for as long as I can . It's one of my favorite races .
Jillian Roth ReynaAnd then one of my girlfriends from CrossFit she decided that she was going to do another marathon and I think it was her fifth at the decided that she was going to do another marathon and I think it was her fifth at the time that she was like I'm going to , I want to try for my fifth marathon . And I was like , oh gosh , I don't know , like I kind of want to do one , but I was nervous because obviously it was an unknown territory for me and I had really taken that step back from running . And I remember after a day at the gym on a Saturday I was like all right , I'm going to go run four miles and I'm going to see how it feels and if it feels good , I'm going to , I'm going to sign up for this marathon , which is like hilarious . Looking back , like why did a four mile run decide my fate of doing a marathon ? I don't know , but it felt great and I was like I'm going to do it . And when I took that leap I , you know , remember having in the back of my head this goal of maybe I can qualify for Boston . But I also knew , like it's my first one , if it doesn't happen , that's okay , like it , I don't know how hard this is going to be . And I got very lucky .
Jillian Roth ReynaUm , I did qualify for Boston on my first try of a marathon which , like I said , I know how lucky I am and I from then kind of the rest is history , because , you know , once you qualify for Boston you're like , well , now I got to do that and that led to marathon number two and then didn't do what I had hoped my first Boston . So then I was like , well , I got to go back and get vengeance and so it kind of just started the cycle and I really started to fall in love with distance running again . And I think the coolest part was that , you know , I didn't do that in college , so I didn't have something to compare to . It was a new space for me and I learned so much about the sport that I that was , like I said , different and new to me from what I did in college . So that's really kind of what ignited my love for the half and the full distance .
Kim RoyWhat was your first marathon ? Columbus , columbus . Okay , I haven't done Columbus yet , but I heard it's a good one .
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , I feel like it's just a solid one . They have a really good crowd support . It kind of reminds me of Akron , but just a little bit bigger , great community turnout and , if you like to get into like what the race is for , like the philanthropy , they do like a really good job with the hospital and having the kids out there . So , yeah , it's a really good race and it's not too hilly .
Casey KozaSo yeah , there's no sand run .
Kim RoyYeah , it's no sand run .
Casey KozaI heard it's flatter . Yeah , absolutely
Joining the Merriman Valley Track Club
Casey Koza. Now I got to ask a question . You're still , are you ? I don't know if there's , I don't know if you guys are members , guys and girls , the Merriman Valley Track Club , yes , Are you still a part of that ?
Jillian Roth ReynaYes , I am .
Casey KozaBecause it's a pretty elite group . You know , I see the best around . I know , shout out Amy , down at Second Soul by all your shoes from Second Soul . If you're in the Akron area , that's where I go . How do you get into this club ? I've been wondering . It seems pretty elite . You know everyone in there is super fast . Do you have to qualify for Boston ?
Jillian Roth ReynaSo I'll be honest . I know that I'm like the slowest girl on the .
Jillian Roth ReynaMerriman Valley Track Club and I kind of just I just asked . I was like I want to be a part of this group and I want to get better . And now I'm like have kind of gone into like a slower era of my life with getting pregnant and everything , but just a group of us that just like to run and race and challenge ourselves . And , like I said , I will very much admit that I am not as elite as most of the girls and guys that are on the team , but I'm just happy to be a part of it .
Jillian Roth ReynaNate Orndorff is his name . He is the , I'll say like head or captain , if you will , of of the team . Yeah , he's the one that sets the standards , owns the website , all that stuff . So he's kind of the person to , to reach out to , and I'm sure I mean he runs the Instagram as well . So for anyone that would be interested in getting involved with the team , that's where I would say to go is just go to the Instagram account and just kind of ask , cause I honestly don't know exactly what the standards are . I don't really know if we have any . The men might . I don't think the women do , because we're still a newer , smaller group of girls , just happy to have a group of girls that , like I said , we want to push each other , get better , have the support of each other .
Casey KozaThey all are super fast . They've done very well at a lot of races . Envious of their success , for sure , I root for them . I know a bunch of them ran Buckeye 50k . Yeah , it was cool to see the Merriman Valley Track Club out there running a Buckeye 50k last summer .
Kim RoyDoes the Merriman Valley Track Club ? Do they run trails ? Do they primarily do road races or road running ? So what type of running do they do ?
Jillian Roth ReynaFor the most part primarily roads . But we've got some people who do still like to do the shorter stuff , like the track , like they like to go do mile 5k short stuff . Then we have quite a big chunk of people who like to do the half and the full and then , yeah , I mean there's uh Eamon and then his girlfriend Nikki . They're big trail people , so it kind of just ranges like it's more or less like whatever you want to do , but I would say our , our niche is probably road racing .
Casey KozaAlso , Eamon might be the nicest guy out there .
Jillian Roth ReynaYes , yeah , oh yeah , I mean just so kind heart of gold , he's , he's the best .
Casey KozaSuper , super cool dude . That kind of leads us into our next big topic . Really the reason . You know I really wanted to have a coach . Do you help coach anyone on that team ?
Jillian Roth ReynaI do not . No , I definitely coach . I would say more of a beginner and or experienced , but looking to get faster . That's kind of the population right now that I am working with . I'm working with a few people that are trying to get their first BQ . So , again , those individuals that are on Merriman Valley Track Club are definitely more in the elite category and I personally haven't expanded into that yet with my coaching . Happy to do that , love to do that , but that's just . That's not who has come to me at this time yet .
Casey KozaSo , yeah , so that's what we're looking to evolve into , possibly down down the road . So right now , you're looking to more optimize
Optimizing Running Performance Through Coaching
Casey Koza. Someone like Kim and I that want to get a little bit faster , maybe hit a Boston qualifier , maybe just finish our next race Also , my case usually something like something to that is is . Is is what you're you're more focused on .
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , yeah , I love helping . I mean , like I said , really anybody from a very beginning standpoint to somebody who's done this a few times . But it's like , all right , I have been running the same time and I'm ready to , you know , pr bigger than maybe a minute . I want to take a bigger chunk of time off . What I found is the most fun is helping people realize like , oh , I have more potential than I thought I did and that is super cool to me . So I would say kind of more experienced but not elite , like I said .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo taking somebody that has definitely done the sport but like , oh , hey , you know what , like by adding in hill repeats or by adding in some strength training or you know things like that , that like maybe you weren't thinking of before or weren't doing , and then working on your mindset and just working on how to approach your runs and your training just a little bit smarter . That is really where I I feel like I thrive as a coach and , with my competitive background being a collegiate athlete , I love people that show up and are ready to work hard and that I don't have to push as hard . I obviously have no problem being that accountability partner for individuals , but I love the person that , like I said , like I will move heaven and earth to get my runs in , and so those are the type of people like , with that similar mindset of like I'm here , I want to do this , I'm ready to tackle my goals , so when you're ?
Casey Kozacoaching . What's the first thing that you look at ? Is it volume ? Is it intensity ? What is the very first thing that you see that , oh , I can fix , and I know and I certainly understand that everyone's different , but is there like a general rule of I can fix this to maybe get the most out of someone right away ? Is there a first step that you always look to to maybe get the most out of someone right away ? Is there a first step that you always look to .
Jillian Roth ReynaThat's a great question . So when I do my initial consult and go through my questionnaire with them and just kind of get a pulse for where the athlete is at and what their background looks like , I really try to meet , first of all meet them where they're at . I say that because I think that a lot of people think that you know you have to be running five , six days a week to be successful and that is just not the case . I will . I didn't really go into this about myself , but I will use myself as an example here really quickly . In college obviously was running more than I run now , because it's it's college and that's just what we're there to do . But I would run five , six days a week and then I got those injuries that I talked about . And now that I've , you know , refound running . I run three days a week On average . I've run all of my marathons now on three days a week and I cross train as well . But the reason I say that is I get a lot of people that approach me and have a similar style or like exercise routine kind of that I do where they're like hey , I like to do CrossFit or I like to do Orange Theory or whatever it is . I like to strength train and I want to keep that as part of my plan . Can you accommodate that ? And that is something that I really like to explain to people that I do , because I never want running to be cumbersome for my athletes . I don't want them to be like , oh well , now I have to run five days a week and I'm like so bored because I'm running every day and I miss lifting or I miss cycling or whatever . So that's number one is like I really like , like I said , to to fit in with what the athlete likes to do . So we this remains fun because we are adults . We are not doing this as a job . You know the title of this podcast is Hobby Jogger . We are just here to have a good time and I want my athletes to do that .
Jillian Roth ReynaBut number two like you said , I look at volume first . Intensity always comes second and oftentimes I have found that most people do too much . I will use Jen as an example , because I don't think that she'll get upset if I say this . When she came to me , she was doing way too much and I was like Jen , when was your last rest day and she was like like two and a half weeks ago and I was like , girl , we're taking a rest day once a week period , end of story . Not active rest . No , we are taking a full rest day .
Jillian Roth ReynaAnd that is something I find often is that people think that they have to run or work out all the time and if you never give your body time to rest and recover , then you're not going to give it a chance to get better and improve because you're not recovered . Another kind of thing I say to people often is less is more , and that's like I said why I run three days a week . Less is more for me . That's what I found works for me .
Jillian Roth ReynaLike you said , everyone is super different . Some people are not going to work on that . They're going to need more mileage , they're not going to respond to the same things . But , yes , I definitely look at volume first and then , like you said , there's also people on the other side of the coin that they're just not doing nearly enough and we've got to bump that up . So that's where I start and then , when the athlete is ready , then we can safely start adding in some intensity . But most people also need to slow down . In addition , to do less , do less volume . They usually are already going too fast , which also is allowing them , not allowing them , to recover . So those are kind of where the areas that I start .
Kim RoyRight . How do you feel about the phrase run slow to get fast ?
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , so I mean , I've I've been on both sides of this coin before . Uh , I in college used to run way too fast and now I have learned to love to run slow . So I will use my most recent marathon as an example . I did Boston , uh in April and because I was recovering from my pregnancy and I was still very newly postpartum , I did not care about what my time was , I just wanted to complete it and I did not do any workouts , I was just trying to get to the start line . I ran majority of my runs in the we'll just say , nine , 30 to 10 minute average rain and I was able to average a nine flat on race day . So that shows like I ran slow to accomplish a faster result on race Right .
Jillian Roth ReynaUm , but no , truly , it goes back to again that recovery piece . If you're never , if you're always working too hard and your heart rate's too high , then you're not going to be able to allow yourself to get better . You're built , you build more endurance when you stay in that zone to easier heart rate zone pace area , you know . So I'm trying to use all the words for all the listeners . But yeah , no , it definitely is true , and it's , it's so backwards and it's hard to trust it . I mean , you know , I have it happened a lot where athletes want to run faster and or they come to me and they're like , why are my paces so slow for my easy days ? And it's like I know . I know it's hard . I've been in your shoes . I still struggle with it some days , but I always say , once I start giving you workouts , you'll be thankful for the easy days and you'll want to go slower .
Casey KozaI'm glad you brought up the zone too , because I know that's kind of the hot button thing . I guess it's a thing that everyone seems to be talking about . I know from the ultra side of things . Two years ago Killian Jornet released his training block that he did for UTMB and 90% of it was in zone one and zone two for him and it was kind of , I think , maybe woke up a lot of people to what you were saying . The easier you run , can you just go over real quick what you define that as as a coach ? Zone two Do you strap a heart rate monitor on people and get a readout first ? Do you just go off of what I go off of , which is just what I feel like my effort is ? I know what my effort is for this pace . I know it's pretty easy , so I go out and do most of my miles for that . How do you define it , jillian ?
Jillian Roth ReynaI think that the heart rate zones , that whole talk that you're saying is very I'll use the word trendy . That could be controversial to some people , because heart rate has always been a thing it's not new news but it's new that we're really like deep diving on the zone too . I have had athletes come to me and say that like I do the zone two , heart rate training , and so I will be running this pace , and we found that that actually , like she was running too slow , uh , because she was really trying to go off of this heart rate , right , and it that's , it's was running too slow because she was really trying to go off of this heart rate , right , and it that's . It's super important , obviously , to listen to your heart rate . But to your point , casey , how accurate number one , is your heart rate ? What tool are you using to measure it ? If you're using your wrist , it's not . You can't . I'm sorry , you just can't trust that . You've got to use a chest strap and then we've got to factor in what's your resting heart rate Are . If you're a female , are you on your cycle ? Did you like ? How's your sleep ?
Jillian Roth ReynaLike you know , there's so many things that go into heart rate and so and then I've had athletes before like I tell them , like , try to keep it within . Like I give them a big range because we I understand that the you know method that they're using to track it , which is typically a watch , is going to be off , depending on the person , and then they get obsessive and then they're like they're constantly looking at . I'll be like how often were you looking at your wrist , you know , during your run ? And then it's like all right , now I don't want you to look at it at all because you're being , you know , you're thinking too much .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo I really try to , like you said , casey , try to give them a few cues but really listen to your body . We all know our body . Like you know your body best . If you're finishing that run more tired than you started , then you probably ran too fast . If you can't have a conversation , if you're with a friend , you probably ran too fast . If you're needing to stop and take walk breaks , you're running too fast , you know . So there's some things we've got to like just logically , think about here I have a heart rate strap and I don't always wear it either , like I wear it when I run on my treadmill because it's right there on the screen and I can see it . But if I'm out and about I really try to not be obsessive of looking at the watch . So I really try to tell people like , yeah , just listen to your body .
Casey KozaYeah , I mean that's . That's what I do . I'm not going to go in and get a like the title of the show says , and you said it , I'm a hobby jogger .
Casey KozaI've just kind of figured out what my pay zones are to the best of my ability , which isn't probably very good , but you know I'll go a slow pace , for you know eight miles or whatever , I listen to my podcast . If someone calls , I can , I can answer the phone call and have a decent conversation with them , and you know . So that that's the way I look at it and I know , like you said , it is a trendy . It is definitely a trendy topic . It's it's everywhere and running . So I I at least wanted to touch on one trendy topic . Well , we , we have you here , because people do ask us all the time about zones . Do you know your zones , kim ?
Kim RoyI mean , I just face it off my watch , which , you know , that is probably not
Understanding Threshold Training and Running Zones
Kim Roythe most accurate tool to utilize , but I'm , when you know , any given day I'm running . I'm also , you know , when I look at my heart rate , I also have to assess , like , how I am that day . Did I have a stressful day at work ? Did I drink enough water ? Did I drink too much coffee that day ? Did I sleep great the night before ? And I recognize that even sometimes when I feel like I'm doing like a slower pace and my heart rate's high , I probably am doing too much in my body . So I think being mindful of other factors that can affect your heart rate in a run is going to be so key if that's something you're going to utilize .
Casey KozaSo we've we've covered the easy runs , We've covered the kind of the base building . Now we get to the part where you are going to optimize me meaning through the training that we're doing to hopefully qualify for Boston what are some of your go-to workouts and what are some records ? And hopefully we're not to hopefully qualify for Boston . What are some of your go-to workouts and what are some records ? And hopefully we're not giving away the keys of the castle here by any means , because there's a lot more that goes into coaching , I'm sure , than just hey do these workouts , because we'll touch on that in a minute , the paper trainers kind of thing . What are some go-to workouts and what are some ways for the average hobby jogger , who has 45 minutes an hour every day , to get the most out of those hard workouts ?
Jillian Roth ReynaThat's a great question , Gosh . It's hard to answer because there are so many and again , of course , it's dependent on the person and it's also , let me say , it's dependent on the race too , of course , like what paces you're going to target here ? But let's just use the marathon , because you said Boston . So I think training obviously at the race pace that you want to go at is very important . But something that I learned in college from the coach that got me all of my PRS was it's it's a funny quote , but and it sounds a little scary but he would always say I was trying to run I can't believe I was this fast , like thinking about it now but I was trying to run 520 pace for my 3k , which , like I said , wow , go past me that . But anyway , that was 80 seconds per 400 . And so when we would train , he would always say , let's , let's train at 78 per 400 so that you can die to 80s .
Jillian Roth ReynaAnd so , anyway , I like to do a lot of threshold work , which is faster than your marathon pace , Because if you can feel comfortable in training at your threshold pace , then marathon pace will feel easier . So I like to throw in repeats of , let's say , say like 800 to a mile and then , if you're a little bit more advanced , sometimes doing like a two mile tempo with a little bit of rest , maybe doing another two mile tempo . So , again , depending on how experienced you are and how much you can handle , I like to do threshold work at varying interval distances . I think that , like I said , that just gets you ready to feel really comfortable at your marathon pace , because it's faster than that .
Casey KozaSo real quick , let's go over what threshold is Cause ? Even for me , I'll be honest , I don't know . I run trails , I just go up and down some Hills , I get dirty , I fall , I hurt my knee , stuff like that . What is a threshold ?
Jillian Roth Reynastuff like that . What is a threshold workout ? What are we looking at with a threshold ? So in threshold workouts you're trying to work at your lactate threshold , so you're trying to get your body used to running that faster pace and handling how to process that chemical that is created . So it's typically like two minutes faster than your easy pace . And , like I said , faster than marathon pace , obviously , uh , it's about 30 seconds faster than your marathon pace , so that's my best , without looking up the definition .
Casey KozaNo , that that's . That's the best way to define it . As to simply I want to run . That's the best way to define it is to simply I want to run , we'll say a 130 half marathon , so that's 650 pace-ish . Yeah , so I want to be doing this work between 800 meters and a mile at 615 , 620 pace , correct ?
Jillian Roth ReynaSo not quite . Your threshold is very close actually to your half marathon pace . Okay , it's a little faster than your half marathon pace actually . So a lot of times with my athletes I tell them that we're doing half marathon pace when it's really threshold pace . So it's also a great tool to use for if they're training for a half even because it's a little quicker than what their targeted half pace will be . So that's another easy way to think of it is yeah , whatever you're targeting your half marathon , that's around what your threshold is .
Kim RoyDo you do it based off of hey , uh , this is , I want to run a half marathon in two hours , which is about little over nine minute miles . Is that going to be ? Then your threshold pace would be like maybe 30 seconds less . Um , like , how do you , how do you ultimately determine that in an athlete , I use a really great tool .
Jillian Roth ReynaIt's actually where I have my certification from . You kind of mentioned this in the intro , um so V . You've probably heard of VO2 max before most people have . So I have my certification through VO2 , which is by Dr Jack Daniels not the whiskey running expert and he has created a bunch of calculations essentially that determine these paces for us . So it's great because I don't have to memorize them and neither do you .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo if an athlete comes to me , like you said , kim , and says I want to run a two hour half marathon and that's my goal , I want to break that . What I typically do is to make sure that it's not completely out of the realm , because you know it could be like my me saying I want to go run a sub three right now in the in the well , that's just not feasible , like it's way out of my reach at the moment . So in the whole world , that's just not feasible , like it's way out of my reach at the moment . So first , I always use a race within , hopefully , the last six months . If they don't have a race within the last six months , then we'll do a time trial to kind of determine okay , where are they at when should their pieces be ? What's relative right now From there , then when I set up a profile for them in my coaching app through VDOT , then it spits out all the pieces for me , which is beautiful .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo it does all the math for me . And then it figures out like , okay , based on what their last race effort was , their PR . If that was in the last , like I said , six months , then it'll determine okay , so that's their projected pace based off of that for a different distance . Here's their easy pace based off of that race . And then so it's really nice because then if you PR again , it'll ask like , do you want to update your VDOT score ? And then everything changes for you .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo really , really nice and I like that . It's science backed and , like I said , that's why I like to keep it current and within the timeframe we're in now , because again , using myself being postpartum , like my PRs , pre-pregnancy , like if I went off of those times right now I wouldn't be able to like my training , would be not appropriate . So I have to do what I'm capable of at this moment . So you have to . You can't just throw PRs in there and be like that's my VDOT , no , we , we gotta figure out where we are in this moment . But yeah , it's a great tool .
Casey KozaI'm glad we're having you on to explain all this to me in simple terms , because I get lost in the minutiae of when I start looking at all these things . We're sitting there at night watching whatever show Kim has recommended for us to watch , and I'm going through all these things , the threshold , do these VO2 max workouts , but then sometimes you want to sprinkle in the tempo and Kim and I have even you know , talked about the . You know the different terms that there are .
Kim RoyOh , yes , yes .
Casey KozaFor everything , and I you know . So it's started to make a lot more sense and we certainly appreciate you taking the time to to explain this to us hobby joggers here , Jillian . So I know I'm getting something out of the conversation . How about you , kim ?
Kim RoyOh , absolutely Like . People say tempo runs Like I'm like I don't even know what pace I should be doing and everything like that , like I have no idea . I just go out and run depending on how I feel that day and usually I like to slow it . I've been slowing it down more and it's been more enjoyable so , but I have no idea what my threshold base is or what anything that is . So I am learning a lot .
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , I it's . It's funny you would say that because there are there's so many terms and a lot , of , a lot of times I either have an athlete that like has does not care at all , they just like listen to what's in their plan . And then I have another athlete that wants to know all the definitions and what does it mean ? And like please explain all this . And I mean you've maybe you've heard this , maybe you haven't like marathon pace should be comfortably uncomfortable , and that is also kind of how , to an extent , I would explain tempo pace , which is threshold , but it's a little bit faster than that . Tempo pace , which is threshold , but it's a little bit faster than that .
Jillian Roth ReynaBut really it should feel like when you're fit and your tempo pace is appropriate , you should feel challenged , but also like you're crushing it , like you should be like I can hold this for , you know , a decent amount of time , versus like our faster reps that were , you know , not able to hold more than like a 400 , let's say . So a tempo is something that you can hold , challenging but somewhat comfortable . Like I said , you feel like I don't know . I always feel like powerful when I do a good tempo run because I'm like I've got that . Like it's hard but I can do it . I can hold it for like a couple miles . So that's , that's in layman's terms . I would describe a temper room .
Casey KozaThat's definitely . What I need is layman's terms .
Casey KozaI am the layman as we have seen on this show . Yeah , it's , it's , it's a lot and I imagine that's one thing . When you get a new athlete , there's probably a lot of people that are intimidated to take the next step into running seriously , because if you just look at it online , it is this labyrinth of terminology . Me , who runs every day , doesn't know , so I can't expect someone new to know , and it's got to be overwhelming for new athletes that you get to . Does that happen a lot , jillian ?
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , I think a lot of times a lot of people I think just don't . They don't believe that they can do it . And you know , sometimes people are like I know I need you in my corner to do this and and they're like I don't think I can ever go past a half marathon , like I really one day want to do this . And you know , like I said , that's my favorite thing about coaching is showing them that they can . I mean , now I've done five marathons , but my first training cycle I would get like literally anxious , thinking about like going into my next run . That was longer than the last and like I don't know how I'm going to do it . And now I know so much more . And that is why I want to be that person for people , because I didn't have a coach at that time . I was also following an internet plan and like not knowing what I was doing and not knowing how to fuel and all of that and just going into it very haphazardly . And so , yeah , I mean there's definitely people who and still to this day , I mean I get people all the time that are like I'm gonna work with you , I wanna do this , and then you know , obviously everyone has their reasons .
Jillian Roth ReynaI'm not saying like you have to have a coach and like I get it . It's a financial burden for some , or you just like want to do your own thing and that's totally cool . But a lot of people like say that and then I think that they , yeah , are nervous to like take that next step . But I just want to say , while I'm on here , like that is the role , that is our purpose , like you are not judged , you are . We are here to help you and to be your cheerleader and support and remind you that like this is hard but you're doing it and you can do it . Running is not an easy sport , especially on top of , like the lives that we live . Like I said , we're so busy and to find time , especially in an area like Northeast Ohio , like the weather's cool cool as in it's nice right now , I mean it's not's it's hot , but once it hits winter and like it's dark all the time and it's freezing , like it's not easy to get out there and we still do it .
Casey KozaIt's a hard sport yeah , and I I certainly see the value in a coach like you , jillian , if you were well said , saying that , if you're trying to get to the next level , the next goal , like absolutely , because there's there's so much science , so much data behind everything and running now it's really come a long way in the last I think 10 to 15 years , it seems . I wasn't at all serious about running 10 or 15 years ago , so I don't know , I just kind of went out and plotted through the woods and you know , a couple of times a week . So it does seem like that and there's a lot of information to digest for people . So hats off to you for that .
Kim RoyI just want to ask about , I think , run anxiety I call it run anxiety is a real thing
Running Anxiety and Strength Training Benefits
Kim Royand sometimes you know I've experienced it before when I am running and I'm not hitting my , what my pace expectations are in that run , and then you start feeling anxious and you know , do you experience that a lot with your athletes that you coach and then how do you help them mitigate through all that stuff ?
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah . So if somebody is ever having the anxiety of like the paces feel too hard , I can't do it , that's when I just I'm gonna like take the workouts away . Now that sounds like extreme , but let's take it to a place where this is enjoyable . If the workouts are giving you anxiety , not worth it . Also , let's go back to your goals . If you don't have a time goal , then maybe we don't even need to do workouts . You know , maybe we do some strides to to keep it interesting and to change up the run . So it's not just like , oh , I'm just running another three miles every Tuesday or we throw some hills in , just like I said , to keep it interesting , change it up . But if the goals are just to finish and we don't need to work on the pace , work like that , then we don't .
Jillian Roth ReynaAnother thing that I will do sometimes , depending on where the athlete is , is I did this a lot with my postpartum running is run , walk , intervals . People shame walking like so much and it's like not that bad , like it's not bad for you at all . It's actually like totally fine . If that's what you need to do to keep it enjoyable and you're going to get further with volume , then do it . You know , I mean I did it at Boston . Like I will raise my hand and say I walked like two or three times during that race .
Jillian Roth ReynaI did , I want to walk . No , but an old me would have been like , oh gosh , like the race is over , I walked and I remembered that I did run walk intervals when I was coming back and I was like all right , you're walking for a minute and then you'll start up , you'll run as long as you can , we'll walk again if we need , and it like totally just changed my mindset . So I think sometimes practicing that in our training like if you've got to walk today and just turn it into a run , walk , interval , run and it reduces the anxiety , then fine , you know , it's not that serious . Like I have to remind people that it's like it's you're doing this for fun . So that's kind of typically how I approach it .
Casey KozaAnd I had two more things that I wanted to bring up with you Fueling during a race . Do you coach your athletes on that ? Do you coach them ? And I've started to do this . Kim will tell you I don't eat a lot or drink a lot on long runs . Her and her boyfriend , grant , often run those with me , so she knows . But I've started now to fuel more during those . It was in part thanks to Amy , the dietician from the show you know , explaining how recovery is a lot quicker after you do that . Is that something that you teach your athletes ? Do you go over fueling plans for a marathon ? Because it's a very important . You're out there for three , three and a half four hours , so it's a very important you're out there for three , three and a half four hours , so it's a very important part of the marathon . Is that something ?
Jillian Roth Reynayou go over . Yes , with a little help from one of my other coaches on my team . So I have a registered dietitian on my team . Her name's Andrea . She is the one that is the obviously the expert on that . So nutrition is obviously a fine line , because I am not a dietitian or a nutrition coach , so I have to be very careful with what I say because I can't prescribe or tell people because that is just not what I'm certified in . So the approach I always take with athletes again , because not everyone has the financial freedom to just go work with Andrea- or any other dietitian .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo I always just use myself as an example and I say this is what works for me , this is what I do . Take that as you will . If you want more help , you know , go work with Andrea . But it is definitely something to talk about and I usually just start the conversation with , like , what did you do during your run with fueling , what did you do the night before , what did you do beforehand ? And I just have them tell me .
Jillian Roth ReynaThat way , like I said , I'm not prescribing , I'm not telling them anything what to do , but I'm they're telling me , and that just gets the conversation going . And then I asked them like , do you think you could maybe have more , or does that bother your stomach ? And so we kind of just talk about those questions so that we're keeping it very surface level and I'm not , like I said , crossing any boundaries that I'm not allowed to coach on , and Andrea are very passionate about that . But if you do need that nutrition health , that you get , the go to the registered dietitian . They've done the schooling , they know the stuff . So but yes , a short answer , we do talk about it .
Casey KozaYeah , that's . That's . One thing that's been important to me is to like , I guess , train my stomach as much as train myself , where I can put some calories , carbs , into my stomach over the course of you know , six , seven hours .
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , and that's something I can say on that topic is like , like the phrase like don't try , don't wear anything new on race day , like don't wear new shoes , don't wear new socks , shorts , et cetera . It's the same thing with fueling Like you should be practicing it early , like don't wait even till you're 20 mile or your longest longer , and like do it at the beginning , start practicing then . And also , most of us probably need to eat and drink more than we are . I know I look back at what I did my first marathon training cycle and I was like , how did I survive ? Like how did I get through that race with the time I had ? Well , probably because I was five years younger .
Jillian Roth ReynaBut , like you said , casey , like even eating after immediately , like you recover better , like take it is something that if you are out there and you're like I feel like I find I know what to do for training , but I'm still and I don't want to work with a coach , but I feel like I can still unlock a little bit more Like maybe it's your nutrition and maybe that's like the next thing for you that you really need to focus on . It is a very big piece of long distance running that you have to think about at some point or another .
Kim RoySo I was wondering do you want to talk about strength training , casey ? I know we wanted to get into that .
Casey KozaI mean I'm good on time If Jillian is .
Kim RoyI know we wanted to get into that I mean I'm good on time , if Jillian is , I'm fine . Yeah , yeah , you mentioned that you incorporate , like if somebody is doing CrossFit or Orange Theory , and make sure that is a big part of their training plan . I've been doing some more strength training and I've noticed a difference . You can touch on some of the benefits of strength training for runners .
Jillian Roth ReynaAbsolutely so just to start really simple , like when we run , we are on a single leg and we are putting all of our body weight onto one leg while we run and that puts us at obviously a higher risk for injury . And then you think about the trails and you add in all that uneven terrain and hills and et cetera . So if we don't have muscles to support our bones when we're doing all of that , then we are going to potentially get injured faster . So single leg exercises are very , very important . Glute work very , very important , because your glutes are supporting you as you are on that single leg . It's one of the bigger muscles of your body . I always have glute issues . Those are just like they always get mad at me . So I've got to do my exercises .
Jillian Roth ReynaYeah , strength training plays such a big role and I know for myself personally . I feel like that is why I got injured as much as I did in college or like constantly had things pop up because we were strength training a little bit , but it just wasn't the priority . Now I strength train three times a week and I'm doing a full body workout every time . And I think another thing like with runners and this is dependent on the person . It's hard . Some people want to just do body weight stuff and some people want , are wanting to do heavier weight stuff , and I think there's no limit . I think it just depends on the person . I don't think like , oh , you shouldn't lift over X amount of pounds , you know . I think it depends , like if you're on peak week for your race and you're trying to PR , then like obviously pull the weight back . But if you're just in like base building mode , like you can up the weights a little bit , but yes , it has tremendous benefits .
Jillian Roth ReynaAnd then I didn't talk about core , but our core is obviously also involved in every single step that we take . And if you don't have a good core , then you're going to have hip issues , you're going to have back issues , like there's just everything's connected , right . So making sure that we're really targeting our obliques , our , our back , our main abdominal muscles , so , and then one other area that I always notice when I , if I take a break from running and come back , is like my upper back , like that carriage basically , like around your ribs , like I mean you're holding your , you know you're pumping your arms and that's like holding you upright . So you know , making sure we're getting in our pushups and like things like that shoulder work , like it's all . It's all important .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo , yeah , definitely , I am a very big supporter of strength training and I put that on honestly . Almost all of my athletes plans , like I don't always I don't tell them what to do , but and sometimes , you know , like I said , they don't go to a CrossFit or a Ornisteria or something like that . But I'll say , like strength training , and I'll put it on there and if they , you know , if they ask , then I will obviously suggest , make my suggestions . But it is just so important .
Casey KozaYeah , you're mentioning CrossFit . I think there was a pretty good case study after the NCAAs this year across country . Parker Balby won nationals doing very little volume . I don't think she's ever I don't follow it that much any real , whether it's professional running or college , so I don't know if she's ever said what she actually does for her training . That isn't running . But I think that's a pretty good case study and how you can do very well with clearly she's strength training . I mean she's . She's doing a lot of something and crossfit , I would imagine , probably crosses over pretty well with the 6k 8k range , right yeah .
Jillian Roth Reynaso I think with parker , I think the thing that she's and I don't know specifically , but I think from interviews what I've heard I'm guessing that she's doing a lot of cycling , ellipticaling and swimming and getting in that zone too and just getting volume on her legs without the impact . I'm sure she's obviously doing some strength training as well , but I think that is the bulk . And then when she's actually running on her feet , I believe she's doing workouts . So that's where she's getting her intensity on the day are the days that she's running , and then she's just getting that volume base building from the cross training . And so then to your CrossFit question .
Jillian Roth ReynaFrom my own experience with CrossFit and running , I so I have since actually stepped away from CrossFit . I love it , but it actually started to get a little bit in the way with my running . As I've said , I have touchy shins . I've had a history of shin injuries , and CrossFit involves a lot of jumping is just the easy term . There's box jumps , there's jump rope , there's burpees , all those things you're kind of hopping . Burpees , you know , all those things you're kind of hopping .
Jillian Roth ReynaSo now I've shifted more towards , uh , strength training . That is very much just strength training . It's not the Metcons . And for those that don't know what a Metcon is , a Metcon is like your high intensity interval training . So it's when you're jacking up your heart rate and you're doing like fast reps . And now my strength training is slower . Focus on good form and really just focus on the lift . It's not there to get my heart rate up , it's just there to strengthen my body . So I think that CrossFit can be absolutely beneficial , but again , as you're increasing your intensity with your training , then you need to back off the intensity with CrossFit . So that's just where you've got to have that smart balance , because you're gonna deplete your energy stores . If you're going and having high intensity every single day , even if it's not through running , if it's through CrossFit , and your heart rate's getting to like 180 , then it's too high every single day , you know . So that's just something that , if you are wanting to do both , you just have to be careful of .
Casey KozaNow we've got another term , I'm going to have to go look up Metcon Kim . Yeah , I'm going to spend all night Googling Metcon now . And why I should be doing it now will help me .
Kim RoyNice . I will say low impact strength training has been my jam lately . It's a nice balance with the running .
Jillian Roth ReynaYes , I love that .
Casey KozaYou did a lot of strength training before the Blood Root Ultra .
Kim RoyI did , I did and I'm continuing to do it , and it's a nice balance .
Casey KozaI walk a lot .
Jillian Roth ReynaNo , walking is great and that is actually something I will put sometimes on athlete plans If they don't have , like a bike , for example , that they have access to , or they don't go to a gym . Obviously , you're not always going to get your heart rate up to like the zone two with walking , but it's still time on feet , and so for marathons , 50 Ks , ultra marathons , whatever we know that time on feet is just something that we have to train our body to do .
Casey KozaSo , yeah , I think walking is great . Yeah , that's that . That is something that a previous guest had mentioned . Yeah , we're evolving as as runners and learning more and more , and it's it's it's super awesome to hear it from someone who actually knows what they're talking about . So we definitely thank you , Jillian . I I certainly appreciate your time , kim , you as well .
Kim RoyYes ,
Connecting With Akron Running Community
Kim Royabsolutely . And before we leave , jillian , where can our followers find you , like on Instagram ? Um , I know that you have , you know , uh , your coaching company . So where , where can we find you ?
Jillian Roth ReynaMy business is rise and rain , uh , training and nutrition , so that Instagram is just at rise , rain , training . And then my personal coaching page is at Jillian underscore rise , rain .
Kim RoyPerfect , thank you . Well , it was great talking to you , really enjoyed our conversation . I did learn a lot . Thank you for coming onto the show .
Jillian Roth ReynaThank you so much for having me . It was great talking with you guys as well and , like you said , always great to connect and meet other Akronites , and I hope to see you guys out there on the road or trail soon .