E38 | Airplane Arms & Wild Strides with Grayson Murphy

Discover the remarkable journey of Grayson Murphy, affectionately known as Racin Grayson, as she navigates her path from a collegiate soccer player to a renowned professional runner for Saucony. With accolades including five-time US champion and two-time world champion, Grayson's story is a testament to resilience and reinvention.

Our conversation takes you through the realm of mountain trail running and its growing influence, as we discuss the prospects of such races becoming an Olympic sport. Grayson provides her unique perspective on the potential benefits and challenges of Olympic inclusion. The episode also highlights how the sport's integrity can be preserved through increased drug testing, ensuring a level playing field for a diverse array of athletes. 

Grayson offers valuable reflections on maintaining consistency and avoiding injury, under the guidance of coach David Roche, who champions joy as an essential element of training. We wrap up by exploring Grayson's entrepreneurial journey with Wild Strides Paper Co., a venture born from her love for running and need for a tailored training log. 

Transcript

From Soccer Player to Pro Runner

Casey Koza 0:33

Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of the Hobby Jogger. I am once again joined by my co-host with the most, Mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you?

Rob Myers 0:44

Doing well. Excited to have a conversation with the Racing Grayson.

Casey Koza 0:49

That's right. Aptly nicknamed the Racing Grayson Great name for someone who makes a living racing. But Grayson is. She is our guest today. She's also a pro runner for Saucony, a five-time US champ, two-time world champ. That's some Ric Flair numbers there. And, most importantly, what I think is the most impressive, she is the founder of Wild Strides Paper Co Grayson. Welcome to the Hobby Jogger. How are you?

Grayson Murphy 1:19

Thank you so much for having me. It's exciting to be here today with you guys.

Casey Koza 1:24

Yeah, thanks for coming on. Very excited to have you on. You're one of the well, you might be so far the only pro runner that I know. That takes my theory that football or soccer players become the best trail runners. So that's how you started out your career. So I'm very excited to finally have that theory you know proven to me. And now it's. It might be a law now, rob, I don't know when the theories become laws.

Rob Myers 1:51

I don't know, man, you haven't had a lot of luck with that theory. I'm glad that you're right, at least once.

Casey Koza 1:56

Rob, you're supposed to have my back. I do so. Grayson, you did start out as a footballer, a soccer player, correct? That was your whole life growing up.

Grayson Murphy 2:07

Yep, yeah, that's what I did growing up and all the way through my freshman year of college. Everything was about soccer.

Casey Koza 2:15

I like it. So started out youth. I'm sure what, like you sixes, your parents had you at the grasshopper field. You know playing a little older.

Grayson Murphy 2:25

I think I was probably nine or ten okay, playing more, more than just PE soccer, but yeah, that was kind of it for us. Um, I'm I say us because I had a twin sister. I have a twin sister, so everything we did wasn't us, and it's still saying it that way.

Casey Koza 2:44

Gotcha, what's your sister's name?

Grayson Murphy 2:45

Maddie.

Casey Koza 2:46

Maddie Okay.

Grayson Murphy 2:48

Madeline and Grayson, but we go by Maddie and Grayson now.

Casey Koza 2:53

Nice, nice, you would fit in well here in Ohio. Grayson, I know a lot of Grayson's because Scarlet and Gray Ohio State is a big thing here, apparently. I don't know, rob knows more about that than me.

Rob Myers 3:05

I'm not from Ohio, so yeah, they're, they're a pretty big deal.

Grayson Murphy 3:10

Oh, I need to come visit. I've never been. I've never been to Ohio actually.

Casey Koza 3:16

Are you sure? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you didn't run some race in canton ohio? Oh, I did yep because I was making, because wikipedia is not always correct I only saw canton and the little airport nearby. That's all I saw that's akron canton airport, fabulous airport. Uh, cheap flights from Breeze Airlines shout out Breeze to a lot of places, and direct flights as well. So, yeah, you got to see our little airport, did you get to see? I imagine it was around the hall of fame, correct, was that? Was it centered around there?

Casey Koza 3:50

I don't actually know, it was in June, um that was it, yeah okay, so one trip here to count it so you played soccer, played in high school, went to college to to play correct yep what stopped the? Because you didn't run any track or cross country. It looked like correct in high school nope, I didn't just yeah, because that was like your punishment yeah, I looked that.

Grayson Murphy 4:19

That was sad. I always felt bad for the track and cross country kids when they had to go for a run while I got to go play soccer practice yeah, because that was.

Casey Koza 4:29

I know I was thinking about it, looking into this a little bit, and I remember the cross country kids and the track kids in my school had shirts like our sport is your sports punishment. That was like their big tagline. I was like that's, I'm never gonna run. That's like that's silly, that's not something I want to do is just run around aimlessly for hours, right, rob?

Rob Myers 4:51

oh yeah, no, I remember doing that as a punishment. The gym teacher would say go give me some laps.

Casey Koza 4:57

You ask how many and they'd never tell you, just keep going go grab a tree off of uh or a leaf off of that tree was always our go-to. Which which tree coach that one way over there got it at least you had a goal what, what? Yeah, we had a goal that was yeah, and you couldn't cheat because you had to bring back a leaf. So what made you give up soccer in pursuit of running?

Grayson Murphy 5:24

You know it, just college soccer was not all I kind of imagined it would be. I had a great time in high school soccer and all my club team traveling with a bunch of my friends, and I don't know what I expected really. But the experience I had was not that and I think I realized I had some issues with the coaches there. They weren't the best people to be dealing with either and all of that combined kind of killed my love for the sport. And so when I was, I decided to transfer, because I was also in Virginia and I'm from Salt Lake, so it was a very big move across the country to a region of the US I really had not spent much time in and I realized quickly that I'm not an East Coast person, I'm very much a West Coast person, a mountain person, and I just didn't fit in. So I decided to transfer and my transfer criteria was based on engineering programs because that's what I was studying, so it was more of an academic decision that kind of drove everything.

Grayson Murphy 6:35

And once I landed on a school which was Santa Clara to transfer to with a good engineering program, I realized how am I going to make friends? Because my whole life I've been on teams and the friends have just kind of come to you. You're put on a team and you get 12, 15 friends automatically. And how am I going to do this now that I'm not on a team? So I thought well, I know I'm fast, everyone tells me I'm fast on the soccer field, so why don't I try and translate that into track or cross country?

Grayson Murphy 7:08

I honestly didn't know what cross country was, so I was thinking about track at that time, as I reached out to the coaches there and I asked if I could walk on or have a tryout, and they said sure, and kind of. The rest is history. I didn't meet the coaches till I showed up at the school for orientation and kind of, yeah, went from there and it evolved quickly. I quickly learned I was going to be on both the track and cross country team if I wanted to run track for them, and so I had to quickly learn what cross country looked like yeah, that's one that was new to me.

Casey Koza 7:45

So we had a cross country track coach on, caleb Bowen he's ultra guy and we had Abby Herring on who made nationals in cross country. But you, you kind of have to run cross country and track in college, which I never I mean, I never put that together, did you Rob? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, because it seems like two vastly different sports to me. But what do I know? I'm the hobby jogger, so Once you're running long distance.

Grayson Murphy 8:16

I mean, we had 800 meter girls on our cross country team but they treated cross country as more of a base building season. But when you're running the 5k it's a 5k on grass or a 5k on rubber, so there's not a ton of difference and not in the training. But yeah, I did not know that going into it, so that was fun. I ended up on two teams trying to get on to one.

Casey Koza 8:38

And that had to be a pretty tough transition for you. Going from Virginia playing a sport that you played your entire life, you kind of, in a sense, I mean you get your heart broken because this is the sport that you've known for so long and you spent so much time playing. Now you find yourself back out in the West Coast. Now you find yourself back out in the West Coast, and how did you? Was that a tough transition time for you mentally, just because of all that kind of change.

Grayson Murphy 9:04

You know it was a lot of new stuff, but when I look back I don't feel like it was hard. The year that I spent in Virginia was much harder. Dealing with a loss of identity there and homesickness had never experienced that before. And now you're 18 and 2000 miles away from home, yeah, so compared to that, california felt a lot easier and I kind of went into it with.

Grayson Murphy 9:30

I didn't go into it thinking I want to be the best at this running thing. I just thought I want to go make some friends because I don't want to join a sorority. So this is the next best option here and I want to stay fit. I don't want to like go let loose, get fat or something like sitting in class all day. So this is a good way to get exercise and make friends and stay healthy. And with that in mind, I kind of went into it with just a newbie mentality and everything was just like, oh, that's cool, or teach me how to do this, and every day you're getting better, which was cool. So yeah, it wasn't that hard actually, but I think the circumstances I came from made it that way.

Rob Myers 10:12

The reason you just gave is the same reason older runners run right, it's to meet new people. You have your friend group. You're constantly expanding the number of friends in the group and then going to new places to run and have a good time. I mean it just continues. I know that's the main reason I run Casey's the same way Exercise and hanging out with your buddies.

Grayson Murphy 10:31

Yeah, good way to kill two birds with one stone.

Casey Koza 10:35

Yeah, way to kill two birds with one stone, yeah, and in sports really are the ultimate social tool, I think, because I I moved from pittsburgh where I played for a very good soccer club. I moved here and the coach, like he big-timed me and I was like I told you the club I played for, okay, that's fine, whatever. So I ended up joining the rugby team and never played rugby before and then met some of the best friends that I have, because I needed, like you, grace, and I needed something to make friends. And now running has transitioned. I mean, that's how I met Rob David, our producer. Same way, a bunch of other friends that I now have through running. So sports are like the ultimate social tool and I'm glad to see all these run groups starting up around and run clubs and you know just way to meet up, to get people off of the internet spaces where you don't really know someone, and out doing something healthy and more fulfilling, I guess. So sports have a way.

Grayson Murphy 11:31

Runnings. That's one of the best parts about running, I think, is the friends you make along the way.

Casey Koza 11:36

Yeah, yeah for sure that's been one of the best parts about running, I think, is the friends you make along the way. Yeah, yeah, for sure that's been one of my favorite things. Everywhere we go now, Rob, we see people we met or had on the show. Very cool, Very cool community, Awesome community. You're a huge part of that community, especially the trail community which I like to follow, Grayson, especially the trail community which I like to follow, Grayson. Um, you've very well accomplished these short trail events which I I think it could keep you real quick, explain to our listeners what it is that you kind of specialize in as a runner now as a professional runner.

Trail Running and Olympic Consideration

Grayson Murphy 12:12

Sure, I guess. Well, I still race on the road, like I'll be doing road races this spring, through May, and then switching to track, which is or trail, not track pretty typical of my usual schedule throughout the year. Keeping it all terrain because and the only reason I think I can do this effectively is because I run sub ultra trail races and, and more specifically I would say, people probably would say I'm more of like a mountain trail racer because the mountain distances are usually around 15 K, they usually take between an hour and an hour and a half.

Casey Koza 13:12

They're really short, really steep, usually quite technical uh, lung burners and Grace, and that's an hour and a half for you, Not not Rob. That's you, Rob, and I, three, four hours. Send out a search party. Maybe we don't know.

Grayson Murphy 13:27

They're short, um, but yeah, so they're a little bit different of a discipline that's. My two world titles are in that discipline. It's fun. They're, I think, short and quick. They more closely approximate maybe a half marathon or a 10K on the track and yeah, I think they're pretty cool.

Casey Koza 13:46

Yeah, yeah, we think they're pretty cool. We watched the vertical K, the live stream of it out at Palisades where Western State starts. I didn't see. Did you participate in that?

Grayson Murphy 13:58

Nope, I wasn't in that one.

Casey Koza 14:00

Nope, nope, we're not in that one, but that was pretty like to me. I feel like if trail running is going to get, I guess, popular in the mainstream, that's the event that it's going to be. It's going to be the short because they're so exciting to watch. You're battling the entire time, it's not? Oh, hey, you can go to bed and then get up and then watch the last six hours of the race like yeah, that's kind of tough for even my attention span when I have friends running the race. So I I'm really enthralled with the uh short distance, especially the mountain stuff. Mountain's exciting.

Grayson Murphy 14:40

Yeah, it's pretty cool and I think I've been on a couple panels with World Athletics and Professional Trail Runners Association. But I think everyone is also in agreement that the mountain discipline would be what we would want to push for an Olympic event, because it would maintain viewership, keep people interested. It's short and sweet. It is cool. People might be able to relate more to running an hour and a half as opposed to 12 hours, which is something I can't even fathom, and I run a lot and I still can't wrap my head around what that would be like. So all for the mountain stuff.

Casey Koza 15:19

Yeah, yeah, me too. Now you mentioned the Olympics and you sit on some boards, councils of people who actually make decisions. So I like that someone who's doing the sport is actually making decisions on the direction of the sport because you kind of get to control your destiny, your profession, the sport. Because you kind of get to control your destiny, your profession, the Olympics I myself am a little bit, I'm reserved on it because I've seen what's happened with some other niche sports. I raced BMX, was a national champion. It became a Olympic sport and it definitely changed how the sport was raced, both nationally and internationally. I didn't like how it changed, but some people did. I'm very usually wrong, but how do you see the trail running to the Olympics going? Are you in favor of it? Are you not in favor? Is there some pros that you see and cons that you see? That's a lot of questions, I'm sorry.

Grayson Murphy 16:20

I think yes, I'm generally in favor of it I don't think it's totally fair that there's no off-road running discipline in the Olympics. You have track and you have the marathon. You don't even have cross country. So having something off-road think you don't even have cross country, so having something off road, I think would just give a different group of runners the opportunity to participate in the Olympics that aren't good at these singular disciplines or not, that they're not good, but maybe not the best. And I also think it's crazy to go we go from 10k, which is six miles, to the marathon, which is 26 miles, and there's nothing in between and you're missing a lot of talented people in there that they might be better at the half marathon range, which is about what a mountain race is, as well the hour and a half range. So that's kind of crazy too.

Grayson Murphy 17:13

I agree that it has probably tainted some sports.

Grayson Murphy 17:17

The sport that came to mind for me was sport climbing, and I've talked to friends in that world too and not a ton of them are happy with what that has done to the world of climbing as well to have that an Olympic sport now.

Grayson Murphy 17:32

So I could see both sides, but I do think it would be cool to give. I think mountain and trail runners have a different skill set and it would be cool to showcase that next to like here's a road runner and here's a track runner, because I also don't think that just because you win the marathon or the 10K, that doesn't mean you're going to win the trail race, because it's a completely different skill set and it's not just about who is the fittest or most efficient. There's a lot more that goes into it. So from that end, I think it would be fun and it might also help, I hope, with drug testing becoming more prevalent in the trail world if it were to become an olympic sport, because right now there's like nothing no testing. There's some testing at national and world championship events, but aside from that, no one gets tested and I think that can be a little scary yeah, I didn't have plans on talking about this but uh, yeah, that's a big thing for me and it's.

Casey Koza 18:33

It's actually grayson, you, you said it perfectly. It's why I'm in favor of it becoming an Olympic sport is because in sports I've known a lot of people, especially in the cycling world, and cycling is maybe the dirtiest sport that has ever persisted on the planet, I mean, and famously so. I don't think I'm saying anything that anyone doesn't know. An after race test is pretty much an IQ test of you know. You can't take these things beforehand. You get a lot of people that mess up and still fail the post-race drug test. But what I want to see is the out of competition testing for some of these athletes. That, and no one in particular, I don't know, I don't, but I just think there's when you see huge leaps from some people they could be a hundred percent clean, I don't know, but I think it gives it can give the sport a very bad look if you constantly see that.

Casey Koza 19:31

But if you have out of competition testing, I think it puts a kind of hindrance on those people to want to do that. Does that make sense? Being as PC as possible, like saying it, you know I, but I drug test. I mean anyone's naive if they don't think there isn't drugs and performance enhancing drugs in any sport, whether it's a hobbyist to. If there's money on the line, like people cheat, that's what they do. They cheat on you know words with friends, so why would I think they don't cheat in a real sport, right?

Grayson Murphy 20:03

Yeah, especially when there's money on the line too.

Casey Koza 20:05

There's money in their sponsorships. And there's something even more important to a lot of people, which is like online clout. You know you start winning some races and you get noticed, and things like that winning some races and you get noticed, and things like that. So that is that's one of the reasons I'm in favor of it becoming an Olympic sport, because the out of competition testing with WADA would come after that they have their own problems, but it's something. It's a step in the right direction.

Grayson Murphy 20:29

Right, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say no to the more testing. That would be nice.

Rob Myers 20:35

More eyeballs on our sport, right? Yeah, trail running is real, right. People that are not in the world of trail running, I don't think they even realize it exists. So I'm definitely in favor of putting more eyeballs on trail running. You know, and at the end of the day, you know, drugs will always be a problem, regardless of testing. But I still think there should be testing. We do what we can do.

Casey Koza 20:59

You know, got to get off the Mexican supplements right, it's the mousetrap mouse problem there's always going to be. The mouse is always getting smarter. They're always building a better mousetrap. You know it's. It's a game, you know.

Choosing Races and Trail Running Criteria

Casey Koza 21:09

I got to watch a good friend professional cyclist go through it. Just people would come out of nowhere and clobber fields and it was just like well that that guy never showed that kind of talent before. And you know, oh, okay, you know, whatever you say, I guess we're, we're good here. So but yeah, now that we're off the drug topic, which is good, cause I, I don't know, I don't like, I don't know, I don't know why, I don't like talking about it, just because I think people think that, I think that everyone's cheating when it's so. Grayson, what's next for you, running-wise on the calendar, you said you're going to run some road events. Is there anything big coming up? Because I'm kind of unfamiliar with the road scene, although I might be eligible for Tracksmith soon some Tracksmith gear, according to my buddy Will from running so many road miles this winter. So we'll see.

Grayson Murphy 22:02

Go for it.

Casey Koza 22:03

Okay.

Grayson Murphy 22:05

Well, I'll be making my marathon debut on the road in may oh sweet leading up to that, I'll do gate river 15k, which is normally the us 15k champs, but this year it's the day before half champs, so it's not, it's just a normal race this year. And then, uh, cherry blossom 10 mile, which I think is still the us 10 mile champs. So those will be my two frostbusters and then uh, into the marathon for my first one nice, that's awesome.

Casey Koza 22:41

Uh, what, what marathon are you running?

Grayson Murphy 22:43

I'll tell you this and you might have to cut it out.

Casey Koza 22:45

Okay, or just this random marathon that you're running? What made you pick it in a non-specific city?

Grayson Murphy 22:52

Okay, well, I was pretty sick last year and I just spent a lot of time getting perspective, being sick for so long that I realized, you know, like running a marathon is one thing. If I didn't do that in my professional career, I think I would be pretty sad that I didn't try to do. I started out as a roadrunner and so that was always something I wanted to do and it just kind of hasn't materialized. There's been so many races, something I wanted to do and it just kind of hasn't materialized. There's been so many races. When you open your door to track and road and trail, there are so many races to pick from and I just, yeah, didn't do one. So I decided I'm just going to commit and do one this spring so that if I get sick again and that's the end of my career, at least I can finish feeling happy and kind of at peace with what I did do during my career. So I was looking for it needed to be April or May, so timing was important, because I'll start trail stuff again in June and I want to give myself time to recover. And then I really wanted one.

Grayson Murphy 24:01

That was pretty.

Grayson Murphy 24:04

That might be silly, but I pick trail races sometimes because they're in cool places and like why can't we do that with road races too?

Grayson Murphy 24:11

And if you go online and look at the photos from this unnamed race that we're talking about, they're gorgeous and it looks like a trail race almost. It's not on dirt, it's all pavement and you're on roads, but it's in a really gorgeous place and you get to see some cool things along the way and I think for me, running is about that mostly having a good experience and getting kind of soul points. So, even though it's a road race and I still want to run fast, I want that too. And I talked to a lot of my friends and they said, for your first one, it's cool to have a debut, that you just come out guns blazing and knock it out of the park, but it's also cool to just have a good experience with the event first and then build on that too. So that's the route I'm going towards this time is it may not result in the fastest time ever. I have big time goals for the marathon for myself but hopefully it's a good experience and yeah, so that's kind of why I chose it.

Casey Koza 25:16

That's why we pick a lot of races, right, rob? Like just to go to the place. We're not competitive, but it's the same thing for us. We just want to see somewhere cool and you know, see something new and experience something, and yeah good a reason as any to pick any race.

Rob Myers 25:30

I think I think it's the main reason. I mean, there's trails everywhere, right, I mean, but we're paying to hop on a plane and fly to another part of the country and rent an airbnb and there's a ton of cost associated with it. I mean that's the main reason we go.

Casey Koza 25:45

Yeah, yeah, so that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I know we had Abby Herring on. I mentioned her before. You know, I think if I remember correctly it was a while ago, but she kind of had a similar story of you know I just I went and did my first one and it was good. You know, I just had a good experience and learned a lot and didn't she didn't put any pressure on herself to go perform at her best and comes back eight months later and does much better at the Columbus marathon. So it's, yeah, I mean I like that. That's your approach to it, like you're just going to go out and send it down the road and you know, see what happens, right, grayson?

Grayson Murphy 26:19

Yeah, just send it See.

Casey Koza 26:21

Yeah, no pressure, nothing and some unnamed city somewhere. So that's pretty sweet, you've got the marathon. And then I did see you are and I always want to call this big sky race out in Palisades.

Grayson Murphy 26:37

Yeah, Broken Arrow.

Casey Koza 26:40

Broken Arrow. Yeah, why do I write it down as big sky Broken Arrow. Broken Arrow, rob. It's not Big Sky, it's not Montana.

Rob Myers 26:48

Yeah, I think we should sign up for that race. Once you run it, you'll remember it.

Casey Koza 26:51

It's full, We've got to sign up that day when it opens. All right next time. So you're signed up for a few races there.

Grayson Murphy 26:59

Yeah, I'm signed up for all three. Right now I won't do all three, but the reason is the vk is the vk selection race for the world team. The 23k is the golden trail series race and it's the only one in the us this year and then the 40k is the selection race for the world's 40k team.

Grayson Murphy 27:22

Oh, I need to decide what teams do I want to be on for worlds and or do I want to compete in the golden trail series as a series? Because if I do, I need to do that one or else I'll have to go to europe to do almost all three of them to get points.

Casey Koza 27:40

So there's a lot of decisions to make I guess it's a group, but the golden trail series Series it's an organization, I guess, but that is one of my. They do such a good job with the online viewership. Those bike guys are insane. The guys run. You see them all. Well, they're behind you, I guess, but you get them all the time and those guys are insane and women, I'm sure that. Take the little mountain cam with them. But I think the golden trail series is what a lot of what trail running should be. I can't say enough nice things about them. Have you watched any of the events, rob?

Rob Myers 28:18

A couple. I don't think I've ever watched one from start to finish. Yeah, clips here and there.

Casey Koza 28:23

There's a pretty popular highlight Killian and I forget who is racing coming down the finish or whatever flying down, because you get to see these athletes, like Grayson, bomb these downhills. That's very scary to me, but however you do that, I don't know. But I think the Golden Trail Series is awesome, so I'm hoping you do that one because I like that series and then I'd get to see you race over in europe more for the series and hopefully win a championship with with the golden trail series yeah, I think that that could be cool.

Grayson Murphy 28:52

I it's hard to turn down. I have an auto spot for world champs because I'm the defending champion of the classic discipline, so it's hard to turn down like a usa spot, a team usa spot, and the world champs and golden trail series final are only a couple weeks apart. So you have to be careful planning your season and deciding what you want to do, because if you do both, that's a big ask at the end of a long season.

Casey Koza 29:21

Um, we'll see real quick because you mentioned that you have a spot. But how do you get on to our national team for trail running, like, what is the criteria, what is the great question oh, thank you.

Grayson Murphy 29:35

I like I don't get that very often, grayson, thank you good one, okay, um so for the vk the classic distance, there are four disciplines. There's the vkK the classic, the 40K and the 80K team.

Casey Koza 29:49

What is the classic?

Grayson Murphy 29:51

That's what I do. That's like the mountain running. So about 15K. A VK is a vertical kilometer. It's about 5K. It's even shorter than I still do. I did both our worlds last time but I would not call myself an uphill specialist. And then 40k is called the short trail team, even though it's still quite long, and the 80k is called the long trail team. Um, so for the three shorter teams, there are selection races, so you have to go to those races and you have to be top four to make the team. It's pretty cut and dry it. It will roll down. If someone declines their spot, it'll roll down and I think the cutoff is maybe you have to be within the top 10 so it can't just keep rolling down to people they're not going to get to me is what you're saying.

Grayson Murphy 30:45

Probably not.

Rob Myers 30:46

Is there a hobby jogger team for guys in their forties?

Grayson Murphy 30:50

There's a master's team actually Sweet, yeah. So for those three races there are selection races, and two of them are at broken arrow. And then the ADK team. There's one selection race, but there's also resume spots, just because longer distances like that are a lot more fickle, and it's we understand that you might be really good at 100 K's and this just isn't your day, but we still would want you on the team. So there's two auto spots that you can race for and then the rest. The other spots are filled by resume, which is kind of nice. Yeah, so that's how you make the team. I have the auto spot because, similar to track, if you win the world championships title on the track, you have the auto spot to come back, because everyone wants to race the defending champion in that event. So, yeah, that's why I have the spot, and if you win, you get to go back automatically. So just win.

Casey Koza 31:48

That's the easy way to do it yeah, I mean to to be the man or woman. You gotta beat the man or woman. I snuck, I snuck rick flaring twice in this show, rob that's pretty good.

Rob Myers 32:00

That's our. That's a new record, I think that's very impressive, that's awesome.

Casey Koza 32:05

It's a very good breakdown, grayson, because I wasn't sure you know exactly what the criteria is. If there's just and I'm glad to hear that that it's not just a coach's pick or something, because that never bodes well for the final roster, because coaches do have favorites and and even for the resume spots, it's a whole committee that gets to vote on who goes.

Grayson Murphy 32:28

There's not one person, and I get votes too. I'm part of the committee, so there's athlete representation, uh, support staff, other coaches, older retired athletes.

Casey Koza 32:40

It's a good mix of people to hopefully get the most well-rounded team yeah, I, I mean we want to go out to worlds and do our best. I I would think hopefully that's our intention for whoever's picking this team. So that's good to hear I'm I'm very glad to hear that. And I didn't actually didn't realize there was four different classes for four worlds. I I'd watched the long trail before I know in the classic I didn't realize the vertical was part of the world, which is also just an insane race idea. I think they need to do one downhill.

Grayson Murphy 33:13

That's called fell racing.

Casey Koza 33:16

That's called fell race. Yeah, it's probably. I think that's aptly named. Fell racing is probably a good name for it, because you have to wear a helmet.

Grayson Murphy 33:26

They do not, but they just go down, not up.

Casey Koza 33:30

I was watching the VK at Broken Arrow and I was like what if they just rode the lift up and then bombed it on the way? You know, bombed down More like a little mountain bike downhill? We'd be good for the first 20, 30 meters of that, rob, I think.

Rob Myers 33:47

I think that's pushing it.

Casey Koza 33:48

You don't think we can make it 20 or 30?

Rob Myers 33:50

I don't know, or a hamstring falls off. Going straight down? No, probably not.

Casey Koza 33:57

So that's awesome. So you're back into that. You're going to be at nationals because you are the returning champion.

Grayson Murphy 34:04

I'll be at worlds, but I don't know if I'll do nationals yet World, sorry, yeah.

Casey Koza 34:08

Worlds. That's what I meant to say is worlds. Yeah, you'll be at worlds where you have the world championship belt, not the national, so that's already turning out to be a pretty busy year for you. That's, that's a lot.

Grayson Murphy 34:23

That's a lot of training Are. Are you coached or are you self-coached?

Casey Koza 34:26

No, I work with David Roach, big name in the sport right now. You know he's, I do listen to the the SWAT podcast with with he and Megan and, yeah, a lot of information there. Super interesting guy. I'd like to have a conversation with him. Maybe not even about running necessarily, but seems like he's been around sports his whole life. I like the fact that he has his ideas and he puts them to the test himself and had a phenomenal year last year he won a Hobby Jogger award, right, rob.

Rob Myers 34:59

He did, yeah, he gave out the awards.

Finding Joy in Trail Running

Casey Koza 35:02

I wrote it down somewhere, but yeah, he won an award here at the hobby jogger One of the top trail performances. Maybe it was top trail runner, I don't know. I have to go back and look, but yeah, that's, that's pretty neat.

Grayson Murphy 35:12

So oh, David.

Casey Koza 35:14

Yeah, so how is it like or how is it working with, with the Roches?

Grayson Murphy 35:26

It's good. Yeah, I think I just work with David, so Megan's she's very supportive but I don't, as far as I know, doesn't have a hand in writing my actual training. That gets done. But yeah, they just know so much and they have such a big background in science and I think that's pretty cool to have and it makes me feel more comfortable when the training feels really science-backed and there's a reason behind it and it's been proven to work. But we're also not doing crazy stuff. I think the best stuff is pretty simple and it's not rocket science and yeah, so I think David's really good about that too. Like the workouts, I don't do double threshold. I don't do a lot of those trendy workout things. It's pretty bread and butter for the most part and stuff you'd see on an amateur's workout training log maybe just faster paces, but the structure is the same, so it's not crazy.

Casey Koza 36:23

Yeah, that's, that's one thing about that. He may talk about some of that, but I've heard that from others. With his training structure. It's about being consistent with any sport if you want to get good at it and better at it. I like, from what I listen to and how he coaches his athletes, he coaches them as an actual coach, not just a number. And he seemingly because I don't have any firsthand experience, so when I say seemingly, it's not like I'm doubting it, but he doesn't.

Casey Koza 36:52

It doesn't seem like he puts his athletes just through a meat grinder just to do it and then who's ever standing at the end, of course is going to be really good because they're just the strongest of the strong and they survived the training where I think I have seen some other coaches that it's like a meat grinder of a training block and oh, they got sick, they got hurt. Yeah, you know, too bad, they got caught in the meat grinder. But these two they did really really good. Yeah, because they were the two of the 10 that didn't get injured. I think it seems that and again I'm saying seems because I don't know him and he's never coached me and again I'm saying seems because I don't know him and he's never coached me, but from the outside, looking in that he takes care of athletes more concerned with getting you healthy to the starting line. Am I accurate there?

Grayson Murphy 37:33

Yes I say that's a pretty accurate assessment of everything, and I've had coaches that do treat it like I'm just going to throw a bunch of eggs against the wall and whoever doesn't crack is those are our champions. Going to throw a bunch of eggs against the wall and whoever doesn't crack is those are our champions. And that's not how david operates, which, thankfully, because I would not last long under that situation yeah, and I I think you lose a lot of talented people when you coach that way.

Casey Koza 37:58

I've had coaches like that didn't last very long with them. I'm too bullheaded and mostly just worried about not getting. I've always been worried about not getting injured. That's been my primary focus, as Rob knows right, Rob no a hundred percent Don't get injured is number one for me, always, always critical. So yeah, that's awesome. I think you're the first David Roche coached athlete I've had on, so pretty cool yeah.

Grayson Murphy 38:21

Go swap.

Casey Koza 38:22

Yeah, yeah, go swap. I like it. I listened to his podcast. I you know I have some differing opinions on things that he talks about, but that's I mean you should. It's healthy, that's a normal thing, and I wish him all the best luck next summer chasing Western States. I actually just watched his Western States video that he's doing with forget the gentleman's name Nick bear, codyody bear, not nick bear nick bear is the bpn guy and cody bears the photography yes, yes, but yeah, those are cool.

Casey Koza 38:54

Like I watched one of his I don't. He ran up a mountain in colorado and then ran back down it like I don't know it's. It's pretty cool. It's getting a lot of attention on the sport and I, I'm, I'm rooting for him, so hopefully he'll be on my you know top three trail runners of next year. Maybe he'll be number cool. It's getting a lot of attention on the sport and I, I'm, I'm rooting for him, so hopefully he'll be on my you know top three trail runners of next year. Maybe he'll be number one, I hope. Seems like a good enough dude, so I root for him.

Grayson Murphy 39:13

Oh, David.

Rob Myers 39:16

So, Grayson, I have to ask is there a story behind the airplane arms?

Grayson Murphy 39:20

There is actually.

Grayson Murphy 39:23

Well, when I was a little kid, I used to run around on the playground a lot because it was fun I don't really know why, for no reason at all with my friends and I used to, if it was windy, if I had a jacket on, kind of put it out unzipped and it was like wings and you'd get like a little lift off and I always thought that was pretty cool.

The Power of Written Training Logs

Grayson Murphy 39:44

And when I started trail running, there were moments on the trail where I'd feel like I just want to put my arms out like I'm flying, because this feels so fun and unfettered joy, like when I was six again. And so I one day was like you know, if I'm not getting this feeling of airplane arms and I'm running, I'm doing it wrong, because I think that's where my joy should come from, and so that's why I keep saying airplane arms, or you're doing it wrong, because I think if you're not feeling that joyful, like you're six on the playground again, especially when you're trail running, you're not doing something right or you're going too hard or you're not appreciating where you are or taking in the moment. And it was just a good reminder for myself to like recenter during those moments if I'm being grumpy, but I'm in this amazing place and grateful just to be using my legs, doesn't matter how fast they're going, so it's a good thing I come back to to anchor myself.

Rob Myers 40:49

That's a great answer. I think every runner needs a mantra or something that recenters them. You know, during the dark times and there there are plenty when you're running.

Grayson Murphy 40:59

Yeah, and like I said before, I didn't start running to be a world champion. That was not why I started doing this. It was to have fun. So I need to remember why I started in the first place.

Casey Koza 41:12

That's probably one of the best answers we've had for anything on this show, I think.

Rob Myers 41:16

Rob. Yeah, I agree, I think it's number one.

Casey Koza 41:22

That's going to win an award this year.

Grayson Murphy 41:23

Twice.

Casey Koza 41:25

That was awesome, Grayson. Yeah, that's a great reason I'm going to start doing airplane arms yeah, sometimes it's the.

Grayson Murphy 41:32

I think of it too. I've heard if you smile when you're in pain, your rate of perceived exertion goes down, and I think of it that way too. Sometimes you don't feel like doing airplane arms, you feel stupid. But that's part of the reason you should do it, because you need to get over yourself and just do it and then you realize okay, I feel better actually, even if it's silly.

Casey Koza 41:55

Yeah, looking stupid has never stopped me, grace. I'm now airplane arms, so I like it. That's a great reason. Yeah, that was the best answer we've had to any question on this show.

Grayson Murphy 42:07

Amazing, I'm honored.

Casey Koza 42:09

Glad to hear that. Now, the last thing I want to talk to you about, grayson, is your company, wild Stride Paper Company, because it takes I'm an entrepreneur, it takes a lot of guts to start your own company, put your own money into something like that. How did you come up with this idea and how is it going?

Grayson Murphy 42:33

Okay, yeah, so this started. The idea was hatched in 2019, end of 2018, beginning of 2019. And I was making a training log for myself. Um, I've always liked written things. I still like to write on paper.

Grayson Murphy 42:51

I don't need everything to be digital my notebook right here yep, yeah, I just enjoy the experience of writing stuff on paper. So I was making a training log that was also a day planner, because I couldn't find one that was both, and I didn't want to carry around two books all the time. I wanted it all in one place and I also wanted to see stress is stress in training? And if I have six meetings one day, I want to be able to see that next to the run that I did, because that all counts towards. I want to be able to see that next to the run that I did, because that all counts towards what I'm doing and why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling.

Grayson Murphy 43:29

So I made this handmade thing and I kept having friends ask where did you buy that? And I said I made this. So the entrepreneur in me was like I should sell these because people want one. So I started the first year my grandma loans me my startup money and it took me nine months to pay her back, but I paid her back in full. That was the beginning of it, and now we're on the seventh edition this year. Sixth edition going on seven, and it's been just growing every year. We transitioned to wild strides paper coat.

Grayson Murphy 44:10

Last year I hadn't really had a brand name for anything, it was just the racing grace and training log and I kind of wanted to separate it from myself as an athlete so that it could grow more and I could bring in more products that weren't related to my running. And I just wanted that separation for myself and I just brought on a partner last month. So we're growing big and I'm really excited for the products that we're going to be coming out with in the future and where it will take us. But I'm team paper and I know that's old fashioned, but I don't think we need another reason to be on our phones. As much as people like apps, I know I don't need another reason to be on my phone and I can't imagine many other people do.

Casey Koza 44:59

Yeah, that's awesome, Grace. I'm so happy to hear that story and shout out grandma for having faith. That's good to hear.

Grayson Murphy 45:10

I think it's training logs for life now, because she was my startup funder and that's probably.

Casey Koza 45:22

It probably would have helped my running if I would have after a race or like a long run, like wrote down how I felt, because then I have the ability to go back in Well, what did I have for lunch that day, what did I have for dinner the night before, like you can really see what's working, because when I was looking at that I was like, well, that would have made a lot of sense. Can really see what's working Because when I was looking at that I was like, well, that would have made a lot of sense. Now that long run went really, really well. But I can't remember what I did to the build up before that. So now you have it on paper and you just kind of flip through it and see what it is. I'm going to order one, because I have multiple notebooks here. I have yellow ones, I have folders, I got all sorts of stuff.

Grayson Murphy 46:09

I'll hook you up.

Casey Koza 46:10

I appreciate that. Rob, do you use notebooks? I do.

Rob Myers 46:14

I do use the hardback ones, but I definitely need what you're selling, because I took the same boat. I'll have a great run. I'm like, did I sleep well last night or was that the night before? And I don't remember what I ate. I know I'm trying to avoid eating bread. Did that help?

Grayson Murphy 46:36

So it would be nice to actually track it, like, oh, my foot was hurting. Was that the left or right one six days ago and now the left one's hurting? Has this been a six day long thing or is this new, because I forget sometimes which side of my body was hurting. Has this been a six day long thing or is this new, because I forget sometimes which side of my body was hurting?

Rob Myers 46:49

I think it's just more comfortable to pick up a pencil or a pen and just jot down whatever you need to jot down, versus finding your phone and getting on the keyboard. You want to keep it as short as possible. It's just way more efficient, more comfortable, just to write in a notebook.

Casey Koza 47:04

You also remember things Because I have my work notebook here where I could just pull up my notepad. But if I write it down, I'm a network engineer, so I remember things a lot better of things I need to know for work. And they'll be like well, how did you, you know they'll ask, they'll ping me questions. How do you know that? Well, I don't want to tell them. Like, well, how did you, you know they'll ask, they'll ping me questions? How do you know that? Well, I don't want to tell them. Like they think I'm a genius, but no, I actually have it all written down right here, like I'm not searching the archives like a Jedi.

Rob Myers 47:33

You didn't memorize the OSI model, Casey.

Casey Koza 47:35

No, no, I didn't, but I got it right here. Rob, there you go, yeah.

Grayson Murphy 47:47

So avoid comparison traps too. I, I like strava and I use strava, but it can be overwhelming. You have a good run and you put it in strava and you're like great. I was the slowest of my friends today so I actually popped my own bubble. Doing this, or a written training log is personal and it can just stay that way and no one needs to be judging you or judging yourself.

Casey Koza 48:07

Yeah, that's, that's we've talked about that a little bit on here of Strava and the goods and the bads Like it does motivate me, like I'll see my buddy Will Grant get out for a run. It's like, oh, I got to get off the couch and you know, do something today If they got out and it's 20 degrees. Rob got out and it's 20 degrees. Well, it doesn't get 20 degrees where he is, but I got to get out. You know so that it does have its benefits. But I I like the written journal. I'm going to order one because I like to write things down and I like to support small businesses as well, especially upstarts with someone in the community.

Grayson Murphy 48:40

So Thanks yeah.

Casey Koza 48:47

Yeah, I do what I can. Can we do have we are a sock any house.

Grayson Murphy 48:49

Here we do have a pair of peregrines yeah, that's my girlfriend, annie.

Casey Koza 48:52

She's sitting over there. That's what she she hits the trails with. Is the the peregrine? So great company. Um, you got anything new coming out with? Sock any that you could talk about? We like gear here. We like shoes.

Grayson Murphy 49:06

I know, I don't know if I'm allowed to say they are coming out with some fun new shoes this year. Um, I'm pretty excited to get in the lab with them. They do lab testing with all the athletes and we're going to figure out for my form what's more efficient in what shoe before my marathon, so that I can show up in the best shoe for me, which is pretty cool.

Trail Runner's Focus and Social Media

Casey Koza 49:29

Yeah, those, those shoe guys are. They're pretty. Whenever you get a chance to talk to the shoe engineers, they're it's, it's wild what you can learn about your form and gait, efficiency and angles and you know, heel striking, midfoot, running on your toes, anything. Yeah, there's a lot of information out there from those guys, so it'll be pretty cool to see what you end up in the Mystery Marathon with on your foot.

Grayson Murphy 49:59

You'll find out soon.

Casey Koza 50:02

And you're also sponsored by Osprey, correct?

Grayson Murphy 50:07

Yep.

Casey Koza 50:08

Osprey the bags I previously mentioned. Girlfriend has commandeered my Osprey bag because she liked it so much.

Grayson Murphy 50:15

She has good taste.

Casey Koza 50:17

Yeah, she has great taste. That's what I tell her every day. So, yeah, I definitely agree with you there, Grace, and so that's cool. You get to try out some new shoes and hopefully have a little input and maybe something new coming down the line for for Sockany. So I like the pink shoes that they released.

Grayson Murphy 50:39

Oh, the the carbon shoes that were pink.

Casey Koza 50:42

Yeah, there's a guy around here that wears them all the time. I think he has like 10 pair. Yeah, great color, great colorway. Rob, do you have the pink shoes?

Rob Myers 50:54

I do not. I think you should definitely get a pair, though.

Casey Koza 50:59

They're above my level. I think I need to be lower to the ground a little bit Again, Rob, trying to stay healthy, that's my main focus. So right on the ground, barefoot, if I can. I'm not one of those crazy, but I like to be close to the ground. Well, Grayson, I certainly appreciate your time. Shout out to your company startup. Awesome work you did there. We wish you all the best of luck at whatever marathon it is that you're running this year.

Grayson Murphy 51:30

Thank you so much. It was so fun to be here today and chat with you guys.

Casey Koza 51:34

Yeah, absolutely. And just so our listeners know where can they find you on the social media.

Grayson Murphy 51:41

They can find me at Grayson underscore. Underscore Grayson on Instagram. Well, any social media handle, they're all the same. Um, and then my company is wild strides paper co or wild strides papercom. It's pretty cut and dry, but we'd love to hear from you, or have a visit and check out our training logs.

Casey Koza 52:04

Absolutely. I will be ordering one. So thanks again. So much for your time Race and Grayson. We appreciate it and I look forward to watching your marathon and your journey this year.

Grayson Murphy 52:18

Thanks so much.