E48 | Western States 100 Recap with Wil & Jeremy

The 2025 Western States delivered drama from the start, with an unprecedented dozen elite men charging out 13 minutes ahead of course record pace just 10 miles in. Our panel examines how the race has fundamentally changed—from NASCAR-style aid station pit stops (now averaging under 30 seconds versus 3 minutes in 2019) to the complex cooling strategies employed in the notorious canyons.

We celebrate Abby Hall's remarkable comeback victory after a devastating injury, running virtually solo from start to finish against seasoned competitors. Meanwhile, Caleb Olson's distinctive "fishnet" cooling garment became the talk of ultrarunning social media while powering him to a dominant win. Chris Myers delivered the third-fastest time in race history, while Killian Jornet returned after 14 years to secure third place.

The conversation turns provocative as we debate whether Western States has been "solved" through nutrition, cooling techniques, and gear innovations. Should pacers be banned for elite competitors to preserve the mano-a-mano nature of competition? Should crew sizes be limited to level the playing field between locals and international competitors?

Whether you're training for your first ultra or simply fascinated by what drives humans to run 100 miles through punishing terrain, this episode offers rare insights into the sport's evolution and the extraordinary athletes pushing its boundaries. As we conclude—the mythical 14-hour barrier looks increasingly breakable, showing just how far ultrarunning has come.

Join us for more ultrarunning analysis, race previews, and training discussions on future episodes of the Hobby Jogger podcast!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:32

Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Hobby Jogger. Today I am joined by three of my favorite people around three, well two who just competed in my beer mile, which I am the race czar race director of. Mr William Walmsley. Mr Robert Myers, former competitor of the beer mile. Mr Jeremy Pope, also joining us. Rob, you didn't throw up, will, you didn't throw up. Good job on that.

Speaker 2 1:03

Still recovering, though it's a lot of beer, short period of time and it was hot.

Speaker 1 1:07

Heating three beers, four beers, is not easy.

Speaker 3 1:10

Hiya Fer, Don't forget the recovery beer afterwards.

Speaker 2 1:15

Three recovery beers Will.

Speaker 3 1:17

I lost count. I just know my hand was never empty.

Speaker 1 1:20

That's why we have mandatory DDs here at the Highland Square Beer Mile. Jeremy, next year, hopefully you can make it back.

Speaker 4 1:29

I'm hoping to be back.

Speaker 1 1:31

Did you win last year? I can't remember.

Speaker 4 1:33

I did not.

Speaker 3 1:34

I was second Around 11.5 ounce beers and still didn't win. Still didn't win. I did not. I was second. Yeah, yeah, around 11 and a half ounce beers and still didn't win. Still didn't win. But yeah.

Western States Clothing Discussion

Speaker 1 1:44

Will took it home. This year he got the goat trophy. Friend of the show, nate Reyes took home the puke and rally bucket. So awards, awards for all. I was close to the puke and rally bucket. Once again, this episode of the Hobby Jogger we are going to be discussing Western States. Western States 100-mile race that we've talked about quite a bit on this show, big Ultra. I would compare it to the Super Bowl Ultra, utmb being the World Cup, this being an American-based race, race and got a few topics to go through here, rob and discuss the the race we do.

Speaker 2 2:23

Why don't you kick it off? Let's get right into it absolutely.

Speaker 1 2:26

First thing I want to discuss was the clothing. We had some interesting clothing choices out there. Jeremy, I'm sure you were watching and saw the was it macroshade that Nike trail runner Caleb Olson was wearing? I don't know what you would call that getup. Do they have an official name for it?

Speaker 4 2:47

I'm not sure that they do Kind of fishnet style, but he did mention it was kind of like proprietary. He didn't know much about it either, or maybe he just couldn't talk about it.

Speaker 1 3:02

Yeah, probably proprietary. I know Nike does things, you know they just come to big races with new things. They had in her name I'm not going to say it right Faith, who was trying to break the four minute barrier. They had her in a some sort of, you know, prototype suit that air stuff breaks off. So nike is on the cutting edge of any of those suits. But pretty interesting, uh, get up. I guess that you know he had on rob. Did you check that out?

Speaker 2 3:34

yeah, yeah, I actually just brought up a picture to remind myself. I think he made the comment on a podcast or it might have been an interview after the race that the number one comment he received was it looked like something his grandma had made.

Speaker 3 3:53

I think there's some truth to that it does look like somebody got a hold of a knitting needle and went to town. Oh, 100%, look like a tea koozie. I mean, there were memes right off the rip on that. It was awesome.

Speaker 1 4:06

Yeah, heavy meme-age on the Caleb Olsen getup. Also, heck of a performance. You know, goes out, wins the race, sends it from go. Well, there was a. You know I I got to say this year obviously a notable absence from the race, but the way that they raced it was was a lot of fun to watch. I mean, it's it's tough to have a 14 hour race be that interesting because it's just a lot of time to stay. You know, focused on one sporting event, but they were, they were going from the rip.

Speaker 3 4:36

I mean that's kind of what they said a lot of guys pre-race were talking about. Yeah, david Roche, rod Farvard want to make impressions right away on the rip and I think everyone's just kind of well if they go, there's enough people that are going to be out front. You can't bank on attrition Like you got to go with them. So yeah, you have what. Was it? 10 miles in and they were 10, 12, 13 minutes ahead. Of course, record pace after 10 miles and it was a group of a dozen guys all right there.

Race Strategy and Performance Evolution

Speaker 1 5:08

Yeah, yeah, I mean 10 miles in was definitely a close race. A lot of action up front. Were you there in 2019, will?

Speaker 3 5:19

Yeah, I was there in 2019.

Speaker 1 5:22

Was that a snow year by any chance?

Speaker 3 5:25

I don't know if it was necessarily a snow year. I mean so, like I was crewing there for the eventual winner and course record setting performance by my brother and when I've talked with him about it, I think he normally takes stuff out fast, but I don't think he wanted to take it out too too fast, because then you end up just time trialing it, so you do want some people to run with. It just makes it more enjoyable. But at the same time, it was, you know, almost have to like double check the course of. Did they make any alterations? Because 13 minutes over 10 miles, it's just absolutely insane. And no, I talked with him afterwards and he's like, no, that was appears to be really legitimate, like they just went out insanely fast.

Speaker 3 6:09

But then, as the course went on this year, like hey, there's a pack of 12 people and you know two or three ended up dying off, whereas 2019, jim pretty much had a nine ten minute lead the entire race with Jared Hazen who was second place, always about nine minutes behind, and at the end of the race, like ended up breaking and Jim won by, I think, around 17 minutes that year. A lot has changed since then. One, I think everyone comes in heat adapted, so that's a bigger part. You have the super shoes, which saves your legs later in a race, and I think the combination that people can now just take risks at aid stations and you go from where Jim was taking, you know, three minutes every single aid station back in 2019 where everybody was 30 seconds or less, just NASCAR pit stops.

Speaker 1 7:02

Yeah, it definitely seems that and, jeremy, I guess this is a good question for you, since you've been trying to get in the race and you definitely have the most 100 mile experience here. Do you think that the Western States 100 has been solved, that we are at, I guess, what we call gaming, the meta. Like the meta, we have figured out the cooling, the nutrition, the gear. Do you think we are at the peak of all of that?

Speaker 4 7:31

I don't know that it's maybe necessarily figured out, but definitely getting better right. Like, if you fast or rewind 2019, everyone was doing something totally different. Six years later, like now the cooling strategies and stuff, it's across the board, right Down to the nutrition. I would actually really love to know what, what Jim was taking in that year. You know, and even Jared too. Like what exactly were they consuming? I know I think at one point it was Jim was two maybe, so like it could have been Roctane. You know it's hard to say.

Speaker 3 8:13

I don't recall what he was using. I know he's like never second what he currently uses. That's more past two, three. Second what he currently uses that's more past two, three years. I started picking that up but maybe it was morden, maybe it was rock tame I'm not entirely sure because he was more in there for a little bit right around there don't know, man.

Speaker 4 8:31

It's like the big car craze and stuff. It sounds like jim's been doing this forever. He's kind of ahead of the curve, but now people are just realizing if you're running for this this long of a time, you need to get out of fuel with carbs what's interesting casey if you look at the data yeah, I'm just looking at the data like the finishing rate, it was 328 out of 379 starters completed the race.

Speaker 2 9:01

If you look at the time, 87% of the starters finished under 30 hours, 33.5 finishing under 24 hours. I mean, the data is pretty high. I haven't gone back and looked through every single gear. I don't know if they've completely figured it out, how to do well, how to win, but we're trending in that direction.

Speaker 1 9:20

you know, just based on the finishing rate being so high yeah, I guess you, yeah, better look at the whole field, I guess would see what's been figured and what hasn't um it was a slightly slower year on paper, though Maybe not at the very, very top five necessarily, but throughout that it definitely was.

Speaker 4 9:51

Last year there were 13 people under 16 hours and this year it was just, I think, seven.

Speaker 1 9:56

It looked like seven people were under. Yeah, last year the top 10 was pretty compact. I feel like, just because we had, you know, we, jeremy, you myself and David the producer, we crewed Simone Gosselin finishing 1704, which pay hats off to him and that almost gets them into the top 10 this year and not too far off. And he took a nap. He sat down for a while. So, yeah, I mean that was a little bit harder. It's always going to have, you're always going to have, a million variables with this race and just about any ultra out there. So courses change, although this did not change at all. I got to say the Western States course. I pulled up yeah, I pulled up a KMZ from 2019 and overlaid it a map and overlaid it with one from this past year. Caleb's and one watches have a lot more data points on them now, so it almost did crash my computer. Calum's Two the course has not changed at all no-transcript.

Speaker 4 11:07

Definitely overreaching for a lot yeah.

Speaker 1 11:11

Now, another thing we're going to bring up here is do you feel there needs to be any rule changes to maybe modernize the sport a little bit, to come into this era of 10 guys out on a death ball rolling and compared to yesteryear, of things that maybe we need to change with this race, jeremy I'm all for ban the pacer.

Rule Change Proposals

Speaker 4 11:40

Yes, finally I've won you over, but like in a race. So what do you get when you win western states? The cougar, yeah, beyond like. There's not a prize purse, unless I'm mistaken.

Speaker 1 11:55

We could definitely get into that discussion, as there probably should be.

Speaker 4 11:59

So it's like, I guess, if you want to say, well, it's, unless this is a some sort of championship style, this is just my thought process Then I'm like okay with Pacers.

Speaker 1 12:11

And we're just discussing the top 10, the people going for the win. Correct, exactly, yeah, exactly, that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 12:20

Well, did everyone in the top 10 have a Pacer this past year?

Speaker 4 12:24

Killian might have had pieces of Pacers on small sections, but I think everybody else did did yeah it's in the rules, so they're allowed, I mean.

Speaker 1 12:36

But I agree with you, I, I understand what you mean like, hey, there's no prize purse, like it's. It's kind of still, I guess we're calling it amateur, but they're all paid professionals. It's not paid to run this race. I, I feel that they should be. I think the live stream gets enough views and you have enough sponsors piling in money that there certainly should be a prize pool and no shade against the race director. But he certainly makes a pretty penny to put it on and that's okay. It's a huge event, massive undertaking, undertaking, and I'm sure it's a full-time job, uh, for craig thornley to do so I'm not saying that. But if you can't say that, oh, we never used to pay people, but we're paying the race director, this, we don't want to pay the athletes who are putting on the performance, like that's my thought. I guess we, I guess we're doing the, the, the pay and the rule changes in one. But yes, I am with, am with you, jeremy Ban the pacer.

Speaker 3 13:34

I mean. To that point, though, the race doesn't directly pay people, but there's sponsorship opportunities associated with winning it, because it is a championship race. This is what gets your name out there. Once you do this, you are in the same conversation as all the greats in the sport.

Speaker 1 13:55

That's a valid, very valid point. I don't think I feel like if you're in contention for a top 10, you're probably sponsored in making something from the sport.

Speaker 3 14:07

I mean, you say that, and then last year's UTMB winner wasn't sponsored at all. Well, he's sponsored in a UTMB winner wasn't sponsored at all.

Speaker 1 14:12

Well, he's sponsored in a similar fashion that you're sponsored by Morton Salt.

Speaker 3 14:16

Yeah, he still had to go out there and do it.

Speaker 1 14:20

He did. He did While having a full-time job. Will any rule changes you would like to see maybe implemented? I know we talked about it.

Speaker 3 14:30

You have some interesting thoughts. I mean, we talked about the pacer. I think for people that are elites, they want, you know, to be in the conversation, winning or returning top 10. If they state that at the beginning of the race like, hey, this is my ultimate goal, all right, no pacer, take it away. And my thought is the mano a mano sport and the ethos of it. It's me competing against you. You add the pacer in and there's a mental element to being at mile 80 watching someone just run away from you and it's like all that self-doubt. Anything that could be lingering in that's kind of gone away. You have a pacer. It's like no, no, this is a move. A lot of times I mean, you see pacers out there. They're posting photos of running with the runners. So are you getting on course intel? It's like oh no, he's only two minutes away, like that he was just bluffing man, we're still good and on that, though.

Speaker 4 15:20

they were talking this year about how I don't know if it was caleb's pacer or chris's pacer they had cell phones, and then they knew like we still have the same gap, or we didn't, or he gained a minute or something, and I'm like see, that's why I don't like it, because there's too much.

Speaker 1 15:41

There's too much information that you could dole out to the runner.

Speaker 3 15:46

Yeah, a pacer could let your crew know ahead of time, hey, he's coming in, he's going to need extra salt. You know you're given information to prep your crew ahead of time and that's not a safety feature, that's a race tactic where, hey, that's potential. You know 20, 30 seconds that that's saving them in a crewed aid station. So it is tangible in that regard.

Speaker 3 16:09

But, outside the elite people. I mean mean this is a destination bucket list item. I think it's amazing for everybody else to be able to share the experience with one of their friends. I think that is keep the pacer for everybody else big fan of that.

Speaker 2 16:27

So, to sum it up, no pacer after green gate right, because I think the results would look a little different.

Speaker 3 16:33

After Forest Hill, like I don't think you should have any point for an elite.

Speaker 1 16:38

Yeah, this is just for the elites. Like just, we're very clear, like the men and women in the middle of the pack fine, take two friends with you. I'm happy for you, it's cool. Fine, take two friends with you.

Speaker 4 16:51

I'm happy for you, it's cool, and I guess you could say too, it's not a championship race, but you know top 10 return each year, so like that is an honor, right. And then you get that M1 or F1 through 10 bib.

Speaker 3 17:16

So there is.

Speaker 3 17:16

There is that that.

Speaker 3 17:17

And then I think the other rule change that I like to see, beyond the Pacer, is the actual crewing, because there is a huge advantage to being someone from the southwest that lives close to there, where they've got a lot more resources as far as friends and family that live in the area that can help a mountain race day and you start seeing some of the crews and I guess Precision was like one of the sponsors that you know one of their runners comes in and you've got eight people just swarming their runner changing out everything.

Speaker 3 17:41

Like everybody has one task and it's get the runner out in 10 seconds, you know, and you have people that are flying from outside the country, whether it's China, asia, australia, new Zealand, you know Vietnam. You only have so many people you even know. So to even have one person at a crewed station, you know a lot of times just pretty lucky with that. If you go to like European style racing, they limit to one crew or one person crewing you at each aid station. Like that is limited and that's, I think, a nice kind of equalizer. Maybe two people would be the correct at each aid station.

Speaker 1 18:19

And this is such a tough race to get crew for because you have to have your. I guess we would consider the B crew that had to go up to Duncan Canyon. But you have a three-hour drive up through a back canyon road in the back canyons of California to get up to an aid station. Like you're really asking a lot of someone that you maybe don't know, like, especially if you're an international, to go up there. You're right, if you're from the Pacific area, the Pacific Southwest, you have a huge advantage if you have people out there that can get to all the aid stations.

Speaker 3 18:56

I know the rules. They limit you to having one car, one crewing vehicle per aid station, but I don't think that's ever enforced. It's just hey, we've tied on parking. So this is a rule. It's not enforced. Yeahced, yeah, and we definitely, when we were out there, definitely saw some people that were you know what's the other thing I heard too is jason coop, uh, at forest hill for his aid stations, had a polar plunge, one of those pools set up real, I mean two seconds boom in out. Ice water just covered you.

Speaker 1 19:30

Yeah, it's going to get. You'll have people that are starting to take them up into, like the canyons for runners. If you allow that, it's going to get. You'll have water truck. I mean because people, if you allow a little bit, people do just ridiculous things.

Speaker 2 19:46

How about no crew?

Speaker 4 19:49

I like crew.

Surprising Race Performances

Speaker 3 19:51

Crew. You got to know your nutrition from that one, whether you're an elite or back of the pack. I think knowing what food you can get down a hundred mile race like that is very critical because otherwise you're relying on the race and you know you're not able to actually train on what they're providing what.

Speaker 4 20:08

So they did and will maybe you know this best is they did tighten up the aid station, like range, because you could like run in with runners and run out to like certain points inside of aid stations yeah, so they made some clarifications.

Speaker 3 20:25

Uh, so one of them was at forest hill before you could run. I forget what the climb is coming up there, bath Road, I believe. But hey, you can climb. You know, meet your runner on Bath Road and run with them in Forrest Hill. Well, initially it was the bottom of this big climb on Bath Hill, which Bath Road, which is about a mile, and then another mile on Forrest Hill. So now they made it clarifying you must meet them at the top of Bath Hill, so it's only one mile into Forest Hill.

Speaker 3 20:54

And then you're not allowed to provide any crewing to them, except for at one singular point. So if you're running with your runner, you can't be spraying them with water bottles to cool them down, you can't be giving them gels, aid stations, swapping out bottles while you're running into your aid station. All of it has to be done at one stopping point. And then that also applies for Greengate. I don't know if they specified if you're not allowed to run with your runner up it. As far as crew goes, that used to be allowed. It's a two mile climb from you cross a Rucky Chucky river crossing and then it's a two mile climb up to Greengate aid station. But that one again, singular point, the crewing has to be done at the aid station. And then the last one being roby point. Uh, it's about 1.3 miles, 1.2 miles from the finish, and your crew is allowed to, you know, crew there and then they can run with you all the way to the finish line. But yeah, they made some rules, clarifications on those.

Speaker 4 21:50

And I mean most races, right, Isn't it? The rule is 100 feet, 100 feet inside an aid station. Obviously, this race, that couldn't happen with the popularity right.

Speaker 3 22:04

And this one, the aid station captain, it's at their discretion. So Duncan Canyon, really tight, tight corner, happens to be mile 24 and it's the first crewed station. Just an absolute cluster and you only have a 10, 15 foot section. You're not allowed to crew anywhere outside of this marked off zone yeah, they rope you into a penalty box up there the rules, I think, are within 200 feet or 200 meters of an aid station, unless the crew captain deems otherwise.

Speaker 1 22:36

Which, again, it all ran really well out there. They have their rules for a reason, and I just can't say enough how impressive it was to see how smoothly everything ran out there. Yeah, I think you probably need to put some limits on crew just because, yeah, you're, you're doing these NASCAR pit stops with eight people.

Speaker 3 23:20

It's a little much, I think. And this is where we're out right now, like it's going to keep. I think, hey, let's keep going and pushing the boundaries, push the rules. At what point is it not acceptable? Yeah, yeah like.

Speaker 4 23:37

I don't think there's any other races like this right in the united states, maybe black canyon. There's so much room in black canyon too lots of room and there's only is it just bumblebee deep canyon, and there's just three, three, uh, crew points why is there three group?

Speaker 1 23:57

yeah, there is three crew points. It's 100K Yep but there's, like you're in this, just giant parking lot for two of them. So you know, there's a lot of room to spread out for activities, I guess, compared to the side of a canyon up in the side of a hill there in California. So yeah, I don't know, Hopefully they will. It seems like they've at least tightened down some things over the last couple of years and look forward to seeing what they. You know I think their board probably meets. I'm sure they have a rules committee and goes over some things and I'm hoping to get the Pacer banned for next year. That seemed to be pretty popular. It seemed to be like a, you know, for the elites to not have a Pacer.

Speaker 2 24:41

So we'll see. Yeah, it still would be interesting with no crew. I'm just saying you know you figure out your nutrition. It's a drop bag. Yeah, drop it. You refill what you need to refill.

Speaker 3 24:50

That's a unique one and I don't know, that might be a little bit further than I think what's necessary.

Speaker 2 24:58

Valid point Still be interesting though.

Speaker 1 25:00

It would be interesting, it would be cool to see.

Speaker 3 25:04

One improvement I'd like to see is time in and time out of every aid station. That would be cool. They weren't spending a lot of time, that's for sure. Yeah, like I said, if it's comparing 2019 to this year, I mean last year, I think Rod Farber was less than 12 minutes spent across what a dozen aid stations, at least In 2019, I can't imagine. Jim was 35 minutes in 2019. So it's just like crazy that they've taken off, you know, 20 plus minutes just in aid stations.

Speaker 1 25:42

What was that, Jeremy? Jim was Mr Rogers. Last year Jim was Mr Rogers last year Taking his sweater off.

Speaker 4 25:48

That's not bad, it's for the day.

Speaker 2 25:51

That's funny.

Speaker 1 25:53

We're in the middle of this race. I'm going to take my sock off, it's okay.

Speaker 4 25:56

Another sock change here. He left some meat on the bones for the if he needed to lower the course record, so, but it was like it was strategic, right, so and that's. I think that brings back the pure racing aspect, right, jim is just kind of pacerless. He's doing everything from his standpoint that. He's just racing, and those other guys just got people chirping in their ears and like we're going to have to get through this aid station. Like Jim sitting down, you know like that's.

Speaker 1 26:31

It does bring up a good point Maybe. Maybe there is a lot of information overload that goes on with some of these runners that they would do a little bit better without all of the data you know being handed to them, you know, minute by minute after the Pacers involved, and they just get, you know, overwhelmed I guess, with information, and maybe there is something to be said for just going out there and running on vibes and the feel of it.

Speaker 3 26:56

Man, it doesn't seem to be affecting their performance. They're running career best. It's almost like they get so much information they don't have to think Everyone's like hey, you got down this many calories before the net or this many carbs before the next aid station. Here you go, bud.

Speaker 1 27:12

Now let's move on to we'll call this like what were you surprised by in the race performance wise, rob, other than the surprising shirt that caleb olsen had on, what was your surprising, I guess, outcome of this race?

Speaker 2 27:30

it's just so many surprises. I mean the notable performances, you know chris myers, killian nobody was sure exactly how he would do. I love watching that dude run. I mean, how many years had it been since he ran Western States?

Speaker 3 27:45

15, 14, 14.

Favorite Performances and Disappointments

Speaker 1 27:48

It's been a while.

Speaker 3 27:49

It was 2011. He won 2010 was the first time he ran.

Speaker 2 27:52

Yeah, because so many folks were saying he's it's just not his ideal race and that's probably true based on where he lives and where he's training but he did a fantastic job, obviously following our boy, the youngster, hans Troyer. It was good to see him in the top 10. I wanted him to be in the top 10, but again, first race, so young, new to ultra running, who knows? So I mean, there were so many things that surprised me.

Speaker 1 28:19

Yeah, there was a lot.

Speaker 3 28:24

A lot we could pick from here. Uh, we'll go to will, will. What was what surprised you here? Personally, honestly, abby hall winning. I'm biased because it's like I know it's one of my sister's best friends, so it's like want to root for her and everything else. And I know she wanted to get into western states. She signed up for black canyon.

Speaker 3 28:39

Uh, went into Chianti right after how Black Canyon didn't get a ticket there Right away. Went to Chianti for a ticket. Neither one of those. She had a dominating performance coming off from knee injury. She almost led pretty much start to finish at the race, push it out. It was fun because I know she's trained with eda nielsen and esther uh, chislog I hope I pronounced both their names right same. Yeah, went out with both of them and they've been training flagstaff together and like, oh my gosh, like this trio, like this is amazing. This is a lot of fun watching them. Yeah, and she ended up sticking it like to me. That was really fun to see. Um, I think, chris myers outside the snorkel at the river crossing, which was a nice funny surprise that was an interesting flex by him yeah, it was good, I liked it, I liked it it was funny, I loved it.

Speaker 3 29:33

I didn't see him having the performance you know. Last year he finished 10th and he was the only one in the top 10 without a super shoe. This year he's running for brooks and he was the only one in the top 10 without a super shoe. This year he's running for Brooks. I thought right off the start. This is interesting. He's the only one not wearing white. He's wearing a blue Brooks shirt. He had an amazing day that just got shadowed by just being the second best on the day. He's the third fastest person to ever run Western States. Now that was incredible on the men's side seeing him do that.

Speaker 1 30:05

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, chris, that was quite the performance that Chris put out. Didn't win, but was very close, Almost got there, held on, held off a very game. Killian Jornet for second. Jeremy, what was your biggest surprise?

Speaker 4 30:25

A lot of what you guys said is definitely, I would say Jeff McAverell, running 1430 is pretty wild. The guy's been around and a great runner, but I didn't see that. On the women's side, I would say Eden Nielsen, at 43 years old, still just kind of. I don't know if her time was slower than last year or not, but man, fourth place, high, 15th overall, definitely the oldest finisher there for a while you had to get down all the way out, I think the. But the overall biggest surprise is maybe, I guess, once you get outside of like the men's top 10, I felt like it just slowed quickly, based off of times and everything.

Speaker 4 31:24

Maybe it was because of the heat, maybe it was because they started so fast, but it just seems, I don't know, dan green, insane, what's he end up? Uh, four females in front of him, so it puts him at 12. Yep, he was 12, 17, 14. It sure seemed like the race was trending where you were going to have to run like 15 hours to even be inside the top 10. It just seemed slightly slower. Yeah, a little bit, you're right up to the top 10.

Speaker 1 31:56

There was a little bit You're right After the top 10, there was a little bit bit of a a drop off. For me, for the women was, I mean a hundred percent, abby Hall. A brutal injury that she had, if I read it correctly, not just that, even the physical, but just the mentally to get over that I'm sure is, is quite the hurdle. Awesome performance. I had her in my top 10. Didn't have her quite that high. Yeah, to come back from something like that is that traumatic of an injury is hey, good for her, very happy to see it. I know it's, you know, friend of Jess's there will. So you know was definitely rooting for it's a great story and you know couldn't be happier for her. It's a great story and you know couldn't be happier for her.

Speaker 3 32:39

And didn't slow down much. Had Fujo and Marianne Hogan chasing her down and nope, held them off.

Speaker 4 32:46

And really ran solo all day, right, yeah, she didn't run with anybody, I don't even feel like early.

Speaker 1 32:53

Nope, cause she was. She was a bit behind a Martina Milarch.

Speaker 3 32:58

Yeah, early, not running with me from Flag f eda, esther and abby all went out and then martina was right behind him, caught and passed them and then martina had some issues. What was that?

Speaker 1 33:09

michigan bluff like 40, 42 miles in yeah, she broke down and hey you live and learn and hopefully just hope to see her back next year Was exciting to watch. Hey, anytime you're going to put that kind of excitement into a race, it makes it good for the viewer for me so. Carnage Sells that's one thing that NASCAR figured out a long time ago. Carnage Sells.

Speaker 4 33:34

DeFrance is making a move of it too.

Speaker 1 33:36

Yes, they are. There were some pileups early. I was watching a little bit. Um, it was interesting out there on the tour for me and the men's. I know caleb won, but chris myers, you know, last year watching him he was kind of around simone and I thought he would just kind of go out there and try and get in the top 10, but he went for it. I don't know. I don't know him. I guess now I know him to see him, but don't know him at all and so I didn't have any personal feelings. But I was just very surprised by the fact that he went out there, sent it and held on and hats off to him. He certainly proved my fantasy wrong. I did predict him for seventh but he was right in the middle of it the entire time. And that's the one I look forward to most the next year. I see him on an upward trajectory, still going forward, and I'm kind of excited to see what Chris Myers does now picked up by Brooks shoes. So it'll be interesting to see.

Speaker 3 34:39

Chris, I think Caleb Olson, like last year, the fastest debut Western States ever. I think it's safe to say he's arrived.

Speaker 1 34:50

Yes, for sure, and the reason that it wasn't him is because I expected Caleb more to do. I picked Caleb for third, so I expected more out of Caleb than I did. Chris. They were basically together at the finish, so yeah, cause Caleb's had some other standout performances.

Speaker 3 35:09

Was it trans grand Canary, trans volcano? He won he one of those trans, something right, no terror. Where was Dan Jones? Killed One grindstone and 23, and then got top 10 last year and that's how he returned Trans Grand Canaria. I'm looking at horse record, right, horse record and it wasn't just like a nobody field like John Alvin, who is an absolute assassin in the a hundred K he ended up beating him. I'm like starting to see a pattern. I think Calebaleb, his next race, I believe he's on the world's team, uh, in september doing the long trail for that.

Speaker 4 35:49

That'll be really fun seeing how he does he also said that, like that's not his western states, isn't really his type of race or something that he necessarily enjoys, which is also well done.

Speaker 3 36:01

I wonder what he means by that. The guy just ran 1411. No kidding, yeah, he's from.

Speaker 1 36:06

Utah. Last subject here our favorite performance, I guess, is what we'll go with. One. We were just most surprised. Now we're going to go what we felt was our favorite performance, Rob, what was your? Well, I guess you probably already said it, but go ahead with your favorite performance.

Speaker 2 36:23

Yeah, you know what I'm going to say. It's still Hans Troyer. Yeah, yeah, just to watch what that kid went through, the fact that he was in the hospital for 10 days, close to death at least that's what it looked like in the documentary and then going out there, being so young, so new to the sport, and just killing it. Because how far did he fall back throughout the race? I know he was in the top 10 for most of it he was in eighth. He finished eighth, I think. Yeah, he did. I just mean throughout the race. Did he ever fall back? You know, 10 through 15, farther back in the pack? I don't know.

Speaker 3 37:00

He was up there most of the race will your favorite performance? I gotta say it's hard not to root for dan green one. It could just see a lot of people in our area that were, you know, big fans of him. Hey, someone from out east, he just won coconut on 250 and on top of that too, like when my brother dropped out of the race, dan's the one that's replacing him in the lottery, on the or not lottery, the wait list. And yeah, I messaged caleb bowen, who's a good friend of dan's, out there in west virginia, like right when it happened and I was like man never guess who's got in. He's, like I know, say it's not true, but uh, no, that was fun being able to follow that, seeing how he would do. Uh, it'd be fun to see him do it again, just without a 250 mile race, a couple months beforehand.

Speaker 1 37:41

Yeah, that's got to be a little bit wearing, I think I mean it is, it has to be. So, yeah, I agree, I would like to see him get a clean shot out of it without running the Cocodona 250 weeks out.

Speaker 4 37:53

He had such a level head about it, though If you watch their little video, he was just like, well, my legs aren't quite where they want to be and I mean, I don't even know where he was. He was mile 40, mile 50. And he was just like but this is what it is and we're just going to keep plowing. So he has such a level head. It's really cool to see.

Speaker 1 38:18

That's that West Virginia mindset, jeremy, your favorite performance.

Speaker 4 38:23

I still have to go with Abby Hall. I think it's a really cool story. She really just kind of ran away with it and then being chased. It stinks for Fujiao two second places, two years in a row. Abby Hall's story is great. She's a great human. You'll love to see it.

Speaker 1 38:44

Again, she is my female one. I agree with you there. And just awesome story Again. To come back from that mentally, physically, is so hard to do. My favorite male performance, though, is Adam Peterman's. Yeah, got gotten it out, dude. Dude could have just walked off the course, no one would have said boo about it. But there's people that wait decades to get into this race, and you know, he, he walked it out. I, I'm sure, was not in good shape after running that fast through forest hill or or wherever. He started to have issues. I'm not quite sure what you think I would, since it's my favorite performance, but yeah, to just walk it in and actually finish out the race when you know I guess the elites are kind of known for up, it's not a good day. I'm going to walk off the course. Uh, I give him a lot of credit for sticking it out and finishing the race, which I you don't see happen very often in in these from the, from the front of the pack.

Speaker 4 39:47

So adam peterman was my favorite adam peterman, you'll have one ticket in the hopper next year. You get one ticket in the hopper I'm looking up right now.

Speaker 3 39:58

Finish 68th overall. So former western states champion coming back trying to win it again and finish 68th, 23 years nine minutes.

Speaker 1 40:11

I. I'm very happy that he did that because, again, you know, jeremy, you've waited a long time to get in the race. Every year we see there's tons of people and just because you're an elite and you, you know, won your way into it, you did earn it, just like anyone else. But kind of don't take it, I think is awesome.

Speaker 3 40:31

Yeah, I think that performance kind of fully embodies like the spirit of ultra running.

Speaker 1 40:37

Yes.

Speaker 3 40:38

I agree.

Speaker 1 40:38

I agree with that. Now we're going to kind of flip side of this one. What do you think was the most disappointing performance of the day? Rob, do you have one of these?

Speaker 2 40:50

Man, that's tough, I don't know. It's hard to pick anyone right, Because I mean you're not out there, you don't know what they're going through. I mean, we have some information on some of the runners. No, I don't think I can pick just one.

Speaker 1 41:07

Yeah, certainly understandable. I get it Will. Do you have any?

Speaker 3 41:11

Yeah, yeah, I'd say on the men's side, my friend Vincent Bouillard, you know, won UTMB. This may have been his first race that did not go well. I know on the broadcast they were talking about, hey, he's got like dirt on him. Maybe he fell and heard that it was a lot of stomach issues and looked like he was starting to turn around. Guy very easily could have been on a podium and nobody would have questioned that at all and he ended up dropping, not finishing it out. I mean it was a little bit disappointing. Still proud of him, but it's kind of fun seeing he's had success. Come easy.

Speaker 1 41:45

So maybe this will be good and, uh, push him to be an even better trail runner yeah, for sure, and I know it's like a delicate topic to talk about of being we're not disappointing just someone.

Speaker 3 41:57

We thought that would do really well and we're rooting for obviously I guess, like outside of him maybe a little bit disappointing, um kind of watching dan jones a little bit yeah among people that actually did not have a bad race.

Speaker 3 42:13

You know, phenomenal performance again. Uh, the guy's been incredible. To me it was just a little bit disappointing seeing the lead group go out, and probably part of his race strategy of let them go out run his race. You know it's smart, but I think it would have been kind of fun because that by the time he started running he wasn't really in the picture to be a threat to win it and he was definitely one of the people that had been one of the big favorites going into it.

Speaker 1 42:41

Yep, that's fair, cause I I had him picked for second, so Falling to top fives.

Speaker 4 42:47

right Like you, you would think like man, this guy's got it Could very well be his time yeah.

Speaker 1 42:54

Yeah.

Speaker 3 42:55

Still a hell of a performance. He's still finished top five.

Speaker 1 43:01

Oh yeah, Still a hell of a performance. He still finished top five. Oh yeah, for sure, Jeremy. Who's that?

Speaker 4 43:03

That would have been Riley Brady, I thought they were trending. Went at Javelina, went at Black Canyon Course record at Black Canyon Course, record at Black Canyon. And the new sponsorship and, I think, first ever sponsorship.

Speaker 1 43:23

Was certainly trending in the right direction. And hey, it's a tough sport, it's a brutal sport, it's a meat grinder of a sport. You don't have your A-day and things go real bad and you're hitting the moonwalk early.

Speaker 3 43:39

I'm kind of looking at this question oh, who are the most? Disappointing? That sounds awful, but the way we're phrasing it's like who did I want to cheer for the most and who was I most excited about on race day? And it's like oh man, that's kind of what I feel, this more asking that's a better yeah, that's a better way of putting it I agree yeah, it's not like oh, that person stunk, it was.

Speaker 1 44:03

We had really high hopes and expectations, because we cheer for the person and things didn't work out and, as fans of the sport, we're just, you know, a little bit disappointed you never know what's gonna happen on rick's day. That's what we're saying that's why we watch races. You watch for the carnage and the blow-ups and you hope the people that you're rooting for do well, and even race week, not necessarily race day.

Speaker 3 44:28

Who was it?

Speaker 1 44:28

lynn chen, she had an injury race week and tara dower was sick going in that was a big one, tara dower getting sick, you know, I really wanted to see what Tara would do over this course in 100 miles.

Speaker 3 44:41

Still tried to race and gut it out.

Speaker 1 44:44

Yeah, I mean, no one's more disappointed than she is. You don't see a lot of that in the race recaps, I guess. So just something a little bit different to talk about. But my female was Martina Mielnarczyk. The Polish athlete Went out, went out hot, definitely, went out there to win. You know happy that she came up to Michigan Bluff in one piece, you know not doing well, but it seems from her Strava and Instagram that she is healthy and hopefully will return. Maybe we'll see her again at CCC to get back in. Happy she's healthy For the men. Adam Peterman I had him picked to win. He was my favorite performance and most disappointing and I'm sure you know, sure glad that he stuck it out and finished the race. But you know, I'm sure he was expecting a lot more out of the day being a returning champion of the race, and it'll be interesting to see how he does next year, if he comes back or not. Rob, before we wrap it up here, any final words.

Speaker 2 45:49

It was a fun one to watch. I'll tell you what. I didn't want to step away. There really wasn't that natural break that you typically have in these really really long races. Yeah, it felt like every single hour there was something right and I didn't want to get up. Then we get something to eat. I was pretty much glued to it most of the day yep, it was a blast to watch yeah, I think on the women's side, holy crap, courtney's record is insane.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

Speaker 3 46:15

Gaby scheitzer how far ahead they were of her course, record throughout the day and then how far away they were at the end. That part's crazy. On the men's side, 14 hours is going to be broken soon.

Speaker 1 46:28

It's looking likely, I would say.

Speaker 3 46:31

It's touchable.

Speaker 1 46:32

Yes, it's definitely within reach.

Speaker 3 46:35

Ten years ago, no one thought you could go below 1430.

Speaker 1 46:40

reach. It was 10 years ago. No one thought you could go below 1430. Yeah, Sport has evolved, it has changed. Getting getting better athletes in involved is is certainly going to bring the time down tremendously.

Speaker 4 46:50

So the sport is exploding and it's really damn cool to see. That's all I got.

Speaker 3 46:56

A hundred percent Correct More golden ticket races Well East coast.

Speaker 1 46:59

Yeah, we do need an More golden ticket races. Well, east Coast yeah, we do need an East Coast golden ticket race. Maybe I'll Didn't have time to talk about that tonight, but we will talk about that sometime in the future here on the Hobby Jogger. I want to thank you all for joining me. Rob, co-host of the Most, thank you very much, will. Jeremy, thank you for taking time out of your evenings. I appreciate you and we'll