The Hobby Jogger Podcast

E51 | Fueling for Endurance: The Science of Carbs, Recovery, and Performance

• Hosted by: WeeViews & Branch Sauce

Share episode

The quest for optimal running performance often leads us down paths of trendy supplements and one-size-fits-all nutrition plans. But what if the real secret lies in personalization? Dietitian and ultra-marathon coach Rachel Laymon cuts through the noise with evidence-based, practical advice on fueling strategies that actually work.

Ever wondered how many carbs you should consume during an ultra? Rachel suggests starting with 90 grams per hour—but emphasizes this number should be tailored to your unique physiology. A 135-pound runner has dramatically different needs than someone weighing 205 pounds. This individualization extends to all aspects of nutrition, from pre-race routines (where some elite runners swear by Red Bull over coffee) to recovery protocols.

Speaking of recovery, those post-run nutrition windows matter more than you might think. Rachel reveals that consuming protein within 30 minutes after finishing your run can dramatically improve recovery, yet many runners—especially morning runners—miss this opportunity as they rush to start their day. Similarly, proper electrolyte replacement through products like LMNT can be game-changing for performance and overall energy levels.

Perhaps most surprising is Rachel's emphasis on strength training as a non-negotiable component of running success. With adults losing 3-8% of muscle mass every decade after age 30, even one strength session weekly can yield significant benefits. She offers practical advice for beginners and time-crunched athletes on how to incorporate effective strength work without overwhelming your schedule.

Ready to move beyond trendy supplements like sodium bicarbonate and focus on evidence-based approaches that actually improve performance? This episode provides a roadmap for developing an individualized nutrition and training strategy that supports both your running goals and long-term health. Subscribe now and join our community of thoughtful, performance-minded runners!


Casey Koza:

Thank you so much for joining us for this. Well, the second half of this episode. Here we're continuing on with our friend and guest, rachel Lehman. We also have my co-host joining us today, mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you doing?

Rob Myers:

I'm doing well. I've said I missed part one. Unfortunately, air travel these days is full of delays and being rerouted to other airports. It's been a crazy, crazy summer. The weather's just been a nightmare as far as travel is concerned. So I'm happy I'm home. I'm not flying. Looking forward to part two.

Casey Koza:

Nice. Yeah, I was watching your final descent in there to Tennessee and I was like, okay, he'll be here, no problem, he's actually turning into the airport. And then I get a text message three minutes before we started recording with Rachel hey, go into Atlanta. Yeah, see you later. Good luck so.

Rob Myers:

Yeah yeah. We were probably three or 400 feet from the runway and a decision was made that you know there was lightning, we have to abort the landing.

Casey Koza:

So it was a bummer Good to have you here today. And, rachel, thank you so much for joining us for part two. We appreciate that.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, absolutely Looking forward to it.

Casey Koza:

Pumped to be here. Yeah, are you recovered?

Rachel Laymon:

from the Nelly Ja Rule concert, I think, so I'm still feeling pretty tired today. Getting home at past midnight is not in my regular routine at all anymore ever. So that was, yeah, that made for a late night, but it was fun. You know, got to relive a little bit of those. For me it was high school music in those days, so it was fun to hear those songs again and go to that.

Casey Koza:

So worth it for sure, it for sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely I I enjoyed the old nostalgic uh concerts. Going going to them brings back a lot of good memories and a lot of those bands are still well, in this case artists I guess rapper uh, you know still performing at a very high level. So glad you made it well past my bedtime to get home. That is the problem, especially with blossom. That made it well past my bedtime to get home. That is the problem, especially with blossom. That it's. It is a nightmare to get out of. If you get in one of those grass slots it can be a while. So yeah.

Casey Koza:

First thing I wanted to start off with is there's a couple fads that you're you're an ultra marathon coach and there's a couple fads that I think have recently surfaced here in the ultra space and, I imagine, going over to marathons as well, possibly some in the half marathons, definitely one of these topics in the half marathon. But we'll start out with, like, the super high carb, I guess carb loading during the race, the nutrition during the race being super high carb. What are your feelings on that and what do you recommend for your athletes?

Rachel Laymon:

Over the last few years. You just maybe keep hearing as far as it goes with, you know, carb loading and carbs per hour. It's just more and more and more, and it's like all the carbs you can take in. That's what the goal is, yeah, so, reeling it back in a little bit from kind of that I don't know that vibe you get from all the content out there social media. I think that, um, it's all again individualized. It's what can the person tolerate to take in, how much, how often? Uh, everyone that you're looking at around at a race is a different height, weight, gender and of a different, probably, carb tolerance. Um, so it depends on a lot of things.

Rachel Laymon:

Um, usually for well, I guess, yeah, we'll go for ultra marathons or events that are over four hours, which kind of takes you into the kind of the ultra scene at times. Um, there are some marathons that could take five to six hours though, too. So it's like kind of crossing into each other there. But let's say we're talking about ultras. You know, the goal is, I would say, roughly 90 grams of carb per hour. If we're looking at carbs, um, sometimes it's going to be a little bit less, sometimes it's going to be a little bit more every Sometimes it's going to be a little bit more. Every hour is probably going to look a little bit different. If you're running 100 miles, I mean, a lot can happen at that time frame. So, yeah, in a perfect world, sure, like, yeah, let's aim for 90 grams an hour. Okay, sounds great.

Rachel Laymon:

Well, 23 hours into it, or even like eight hours into it, you know, things can, things can change. So that's, that's a starting point, that's a starting recommendation. You know, then we want to kind of go ahead and try to practice those things in training along the way. Early on in training, as the runs start to get longer, we start to build that in there's. I know there's super high carb, like ideas, and like, oh, maybe I can take out 120 grams per hour. Well, I mean, if someone tolerates that and practices like that and that's what their body receives, well then yeah, I mean, sure, you can certainly go over that. 90 grams an hour. Definitely there's nothing wrong with that If that's what the athlete can tolerate. I would say it's a little. It gets a little scary when you hear or see recommendations that are so much lower, when you know that that person's going to be out there for a really long time, so when you're working with an athlete.

Casey Koza:

How much does weight impact? How many carbs per hour? I know weight's a very sensitive topic. We've talked about that here on the show. You know I'm 180 pounds, so I'm going to go through a lot more, burn a lot more energy per hour than someone who's 140 pounds. That's just. I don't do. You know what that science is called, rob? I don't. Uh, I'm sure there's a science behind it. Thermodynamics possibly could be.

Rob Myers:

I don't know but I don't think so, but I guess did tell us at one point yeah, someone told us I didn't write that down.

Casey Koza:

But, rachel, how important is that when you're trying to come up with your athletes per hour structure?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, very, because, yeah, the needs of, maybe, someone who's 135 pounds are certainly going to be different than someone who's 205 pounds. You know, the difference is just. Yeah, they're huge. I mean, even from a carb loading perspective, those numbers would be wildly different. Even race morning what should I eat? That's wildly different versus those two numbers that I just threw out there. Yeah, it definitely makes a difference and, depending on your body weight, yeah, you go off of some rough calculations that you try to aim for, but if you're carrying more body weight then, yeah, you're going to be probably ingesting more carbohydrates.

Casey Koza:

Based on that, in general, Then you said something there what you hopefully I don't catch you off guard here, because this is something I just heard and I I didn't, I didn't even look it up. But uh, will Walmsley on the show, he drinks Red Bull in the morning before races rather than coffee because of the acidity of the coffee. Hopefully I'm saying that he'll correct me the acidity of the coffee on the stomach versus the acidity in the Red Bull on the stomach. Do you have any feelings on that? I don't know how to better phrase the question because I just learned about this, so, but it was interesting to me.

Rachel Laymon:

Is it because he feels he tolerates the Red Bull better?

Casey Koza:

I believe so yes.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, coffee screws up your stomach and causes problems and you need to stop a lot, and Red Bull does not.

Casey Koza:

Oh, it was just. I'd never heard that before or, you know, seen someone with that take, I guess it was something new to me.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, that's definitely new to me too. I have to say I don't think I currently work with anyone who uses Red Bull in general. So yeah, that's definitely new to me. That goes back to for me, that goes back to completely individualized preferences. Again. I have seen people who will eat Chipotle or like large pizzas the night before a race and I have people who would never they wouldn't go near that for a million dollars the night before a race. So yeah, I think that it is all depending on what your body can specifically tolerate, what you feel, just like in his case. He said you know, the acidity really bothers him of the coffee. Then yeah, if that works for him, then and then go for it. Yeah.

Casey Koza:

So so that's something you can add to your repertoire. Now to to troubleshoot a sensitive stomach in the morning for an athlete. Yeah, hey. If the coffee's kind of getting in the way, try a Red Bull. I and I do. I drink Red Bull, mile 20. I'm a Red Bull.

Rob Myers:

Crack one open, rob, you ever drink one, oh yeah often I think I've finished a couple years in a race because you only drink half of it, and then I see Annie and she offers me the other half.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, yeah, I like ginger ale and Red Bull are my go-to like aid station. If I can get Annie to bring something, it's Red Bull and I don't drink it any other time. I know, Rachel, you're hearing Red Bull and you're like, as a dietician, I'm sure you're cringing. Please don't destroy your heart and drink whatever else is in it.

Rob Myers:

On this topic because you are a dietician. How do you handle your athletes when they're on kind of a fringe diet? And I know we don't see it a lot in the running community, but there are a ton, and I think, of keto diets. I mean there's other heavy fat, heavy protein, low carb diets and they're runners and when you meet one of those people and they're just gifted at running, you can't really disagree with their argument. But at the same time, the science doesn't support it and, to your point, we're all individuals. But have you run across that? I mean, how do you handle those conversations?

Rachel Laymon:

Absolutely. Yes, I have had a handful of people who mostly men, I will say and I do think there's something to that like men and women can. Just what they can tolerate and do is so wildly different. But in general, yeah, I have had a handful of more male athletes who I'm keto or I eat, I eat low carb. That's just kind of how I roll. That's what I want to do.

Rachel Laymon:

Um, it kind of goes into there's so much that goes into it as a dietician, right, like you're you're counseling with people and you're you're working towards you know a goal, you're providing them with the information that's out there, the research that's out there, and you're hoping that you know, hey, if you want to take this information to account and you know it could help, it could help performance. And it goes into those stages of change. Some people are not ready to change and they maybe just are like, no, I'm good on my nutrition. That's great information, but I'm good and I just want you to write me training plans and I'm more interested in the workouts and sometimes things like as you get training, things can unfold a little bit. You know, over time you build up trust with anyone you're working with and they kind of think, you know, I had a couple bad workouts, it just weren't the best. Maybe she's right, maybe I should try a few more carbs or something like that. So things, you know, things can evolve throughout a training process. So I think you know it can go so many different ways.

Rachel Laymon:

Um, I have had people who are like they really they only ate more carbs, like before their longest long runs and before race day. So I mean it's like we'll never know. Could they have run better? Probably your body utilizes that, so why not? Could they have recovered better? Yeah, I'm sure they could have, but it is all a personal preference. So, just like anything, oh my gosh, I have counseled thousands of people over my, you know, dietitian career and now more sports focused with what I'm doing. But before I started my own business, oh yeah, it was fad diet central that's. You know you spend so much time like unpacking that stuff and you know presenting it in a way that you know you're being kind about it and not, you know, just jumping the gun like, hey, I wouldn't do that. Like, well, let's unpack it, let's talk about it a little bit and work with the patient or athlete on that. Yeah, I've experienced a lot of that, for sure.

Rob Myers:

I'm hearing you take a gentle approach to the topic but you don't recommend the carnivore diet is kind of what I'm hearing.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, not for endurance athletes correct, yeah, performance when you're not putting any fuel in the tank, so to speak. Like the barefoot runner. Yeah, that's great. And we have a guy around here that runs barefoot. I see him all the time. It's like that has to hurt. It doesn't look comfortable, it doesn't look good. Please put shoes on. That's why we invented them 30,000 years ago, to protect our feet. And I get you should walk around barefoot.

Rachel Laymon:

I'm not saying you shouldn't, yeah, that's something that just drives me crazy is the keto endurance athlete, Rachel. Yeah, it's a tough one.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I get it. You want to do it, that's fine. That's your life lifestyle, you know? Hey, cool, I just yeah, I like my carbs, I like my sandwiches with a big bun, right, rob?

Rob Myers:

Oh yeah, yeah, I'm team pizza before race, but I know not everyone is.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, see. Yeah, it's so different for everybody. Absolutely yeah, I'm definitely team carb. I like to recover well. I like to sleep well. I like to run well, give me my carbs for sure.

Casey Koza:

You mentioned recovery. That was the next thing I wanted to bring up here. You're a personal trainer as well Strength coach Very important, I think that's something that I added. I want to say I've been very consistent over the last 24 weeks doing strength training. I've noticed a huge change. As well as recovery, what are some things? First thing, I'm going to ask about recovery. What do you recommend doing like as a daily recovery routine for every run? Do you have something that you prescribe for that? Like, hey, athlete, when you are done with your run, I want you to do ABC. Is there something that you prescribe?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, Usually it's more nutrition related. Yes, I have athletes that will commit to doing a little bit of stretching and things like that.

Casey Koza:

I'm not committing to doing that, by the way. Ever, under any circumstance, I will not stretch. I hate stretching.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, that's it. I know that's a tough topic for runners, stretching for sure. Yeah, a lot, of, a lot of the recovery I focus on for my athletes yeah, again, it's individualized when it comes to like other extra things. So if you have somebody who's really focusing on like hip strength or um calf tightness or something like that, like then we're probably going to focus on give that a little bit of extra attention. A little bit of stretching things like that afterwards can go a long way. And then eating, eating and drinking afterwards in a short window of time can be really impactful for recovery.

Casey Koza:

What is that window?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, Within the first half hour is usually ideal, getting something down. You'll see different recommendations out there. I've seen zero to two hours try to have this and that. Out there, I've seen zero to two hours try to have this and that. Um, what I try, the message I try to send, is try to eat something as soon as you're able to. The sooner the better, right, Like there's no perfect. I don't think there's a perfect time to do it. I think it is just the sooner the better, and then it's focusing on that's when you're really hitting the protein. Right, we need protein and carbs to recover well, but the protein is going to be much more beneficial post-workout, post-run, post-lift.

Casey Koza:

I guess I probably should have asked someone like you before I spent money on this. But I started drinking LMNT, I ran out of it and it could have been in my head, I don't know. But for like four days I felt terrible after my runs when I wasn't drinking. That I don't know if it's because I just became so used to it and then just cold turkey it and quit. But I had to hurry up and order another, however many pack. But is that something that you recommend? Is it the magnesium, maybe in there, that I feel that way?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, it's so. I love Elementi. I love that product. I personally use it a ton. I have a huge stockpile in my garage. If you need some, I love it.

Rachel Laymon:

I think that, especially in the summer, I feel the same way, a very significant difference if I am to forget it or run low on it or something. I think it's like no carb at all, maybe a gram. I can't even remember. It's low, low, low carb, no carb. And it's all your electrolytes right, it's sodium, magnesium type of electrolyte replenishment. So that's what we're losing in our sweat. We're losing fluid and electrolytes.

Rachel Laymon:

So it's great if you're taking the water in and trying to hydrate with water, but when you actually have those electrolytes A going back in and B you know, in on a regular basis, that's what actually helps hydrate you. That keeps the water, kind of like retains the water in your body. It helps keep you more hydrated. That's why you might talk to people who, oh, I drink, you know gallons of water a day, I pee all the time and it's like, well, you're probably maybe not actually hydrating. It might just be going through you at this point because your body's not really utilizing that fluid at this point, because your body's not really utilizing that fluid. So back to the LMNT. Yeah, it's hard to say exactly how much sodium we lose in our sweat without getting a sweat test done, but knowing that we're losing that in our sweat no matter what, if that's a product that's working for you, I would say, yeah, definitely reorder it. Get to taking that again, because it seems to be working out well and you can feel the difference when you're not taking it.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that was one thing where I, as soon as I quit taking it, I ran out and I tried to oh, what was it? It was like a variety pack and they have some awful flavors. It was like a mango chili flavor and so I was running low and I was like down to mango chili and I hate grapefruit and I was like, oh, this is going to be awful, like I got to either eat like mango chilies or grapefruit and that's not good for me. But I did like. I got to say Rachel that was, and I I bought it myself, so I'm not no way sponsored by LMNT, but I felt almost like I was getting sick, like just kind of lethargic. The heart rate was up a little bit more than it had been until then. I got the next shipment in and started drinking it as soon as I'm done. Running in the morning is when I take it. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that someone with some actual education in the topic agrees with me on that. You know, rob, it's usually just me out of my theories.

Rob Myers:

I mean, I've never tried it. I've heard you talk about it before in others, so I think I will give it a shot, see if I feel a difference.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, yeah, and I honestly I challenge you to try the grapefruit. I am not a grapefruit person and that is my favorite flavor.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I got that mango chili and yeah, it's so. We occasionally drink White Claws and we get the variety pack and I will not touch the grapefruit Like absolutely back to the fridge, don't care. Yeah, great, I don't know why. Grapefruit just.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, the real question is why are you drinking white claws? I mean, come on, man, drink a normal beer like the rest of us.

Casey Koza:

I usually do. But you know, sometimes, you know I like the claws. There's no laws when you're drinking claws.

Rob Myers:

Rob, except the mystery alcohol, no one knows what it actually is.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, it's a mystery, I do prefer beer, so that's good. I actually got some backing on that, which always helps me out. So electrolytes protein seems pretty easy post-run, but a lot of people, I think, don't do that right. Rachel, I'm sure you get a lot of athletes in and they just go like to their cup of coffee or whatever, or drink a glass of water maybe, but they don't. People don't focus on that. I feel that it definitely helps you build up much quicker when you're, especially when you're doing other things as well, which we'll talk about here next.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, I see it. I mean, all the time I have people who will run five in the morning, cause that's when they go and they've got to get out the door. They get their run in, they come home and they're onto the next thing. Um, so it's first. You know it's a project of like okay, let's get something in before you set foot out the door. Try to wake up a little bit earlier if you need to, or we just try to work with what's quick and easy and what sits well If you're really short on time or you just. I mean, who wants to wake up extra early? Not a lot of people, so we try to work with that. And then the next thing is okay, if the run's long enough, then we have to worry about what are you taking during and then after.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, it's a lot, so, getting them, they're coming home, you got to hit the shower, the kids are waking up or whatever's going on, or you're just in a rush to get to work. Yeah, you're using your coffee as kind of a crutch because it's like you're not too hungry, yet Exercise naturally reduces your appetite, so people just kind of ride that out. And then next thing, you know it's like 10, 11 AM, and maybe you're finally starving at that point. So we've missed that window of opportunity, the one that's before the run, maybe during the run and then after. So if you're able to pull all that together, then you're really able to make so much more progress while you're actually running and doing the workout, and then your recovery is even a little bit faster too, which means your training is going to be even better in preparation for race day. So it's all super important.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, it is. All the blocks go together to build yourself up for whatever it is your goal is. And another important block that I'm going to talk about here with you, Rachel, because you're a strength coach, is strength workouts that you prescribe. I know we've talked about it, Rob and I a number of times, a number of guests We've dedicated at least a few full episodes just to strength training Mike from Big Tree Fitness and Jason Fitzgerald of the Strength Running Podcast. That's it. Yeah, I listen to it all the time. I listen to it all the time, but I feel that the recovery and the strength are what has led to me becoming a better runner for sure. I think I took like an hour off my 50K PR once I started focusing on those things.

Rachel Laymon:

That's huge An hour yeah.

Casey Koza:

A little bit different course, laurel Highlands versus Cons out in california, so it was kind of just like a road race with a mountain in the middle of it. Okay, I mean not the most technical trail, right, rob no, no, not at all.

Rob Myers:

It's like california carpet right yeah.

Casey Koza:

So there wasn't runnable, like there was a degree of difficulty on of courses, but I felt a lot better. Like even through mile like 23 I was like, oh, this feels really good. And one of the things I really like I said before I focused on was strength training. What do you recommend for your athletes and how often do you get a new athlete that has zero experience in usually the runners and zero idea what it is they're doing? Cause I know strength can be kind of an intimidating thing to sign yourself up for to. To improve on that.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, and it, and it's a big, you know, a time commitment, right, Like if you're training for, say, a marathon or an ultra. I mean you're, you're putting in a lot of hours per week already. So committing to that strength training it's hard, it's like adding something else in, just like anything. But gosh, it's so crucial. I mean we lose what is it? Three to 8% or something like that. I'll have to look up the updated stat. That may or may not be it about.

Rachel Laymon:

You lose so much muscle mass every decade of your life after you turn 30. I mean, you just do so. You have to fight to keep it on there. It's just so important. Yeah, so a lot of times I will get athletes who, yeah, they've never really lifted or they've never lifted consistently, they've never been strength training while they're training, while they've never been strength training while they're training, while they've been a runner, they've never crossed those two together. Yeah, that's actually really really common and it's. It's great when the athlete is able to commit that extra time, even if it's. You know, sometimes it's one, maybe two sessions a week and I say go for it if that's one or two more times a week. You're looking at four to eight more times a month of strength training than you would have done at all. So sometimes it's just like any new habit, starting small and getting used to, whether it's a home gym, going to a gym, getting used to the machines or the workouts or the classes they might be going to Definitely.

Rob Myers:

I have seen that a lot classes they might be going to, definitely. I have seen that a lot. What do you recommend for those folks? As far as the starting point, is it just body weight, exercises, weights, bands, machines? I mean there's a lot to choose from.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, there's so much to choose from A lot of times. I will start with what do you have available to you? Sometimes it's a home gym. They've got, or they've got, no weights yet They'll invest in it. They want to see how it goes before they decide whether they want to invest in a gym membership or if they think that building up the home gym would be better for themselves or their family.

Rachel Laymon:

Um, so I first start with yeah, what kind of stuff are we working with here? What do we have? Um, what kind of time do we have? Like, when would you go? When would you fit this in? Is it realistic to make it to the gym? Is it more realistic to be at home? And, yeah, how long has it been, if ever? If they have done you know really nothing in that realm before. We're starting, yes, with body weight stuff. We're starting small, right, it's just like if you were to take off a year from running, for whatever reason, probably need to start you at a run, walk and just really take it easy, ease into it, versus, you know, jumping into a six or eight mile run the first run back it's been a year. So, yeah, easing them into it.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's important. I know, when I've taken time off in the past of strength training, especially when you hit that first squat day and you can't walk for three days afterwards it's yeah, it's painful, it's not fun, it's not enjoyable. So I, yeah, gotta start out slow and it can be embarrassingly slow and that's fine, like it doesn't do. Air squats with just body weight is is good because you you can tear your legs up pretty quick, I feel like with if you go too hard and then you just kind of put yourself back behind the eight ball again yeah, and then it can feel defeating, like wow, I am so sore for so many days I can't even get my long run in, or whatever it might be.

Rachel Laymon:

Then they might just cut it all out again in general. So we want to make sure we're easing into it enough to where it's doable. It's challenging but doable.

Rob Myers:

I found if you break it up a little bit like, whatever the totals are, if you want to get a hundred pushups in, split it up. You know five times a day you're walking in your hallway, knock out 10 pushups and then a couple hours later knock out a ton, you know 10 more and then eventually, by the end of the day, you know you're going to hit the uh, the amount you wanted to get.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, that's a great idea.

Rob Myers:

I find that much easier to take on than you know. You hear these guys like, oh, 200, 300 pushups a day and, you know, deadlift a couple hundred pounds and squat, and all this in like an hour at the gym. I'm like, nah, I'll split it up.

Casey Koza:

I have time to make it to the gym once, twice a week. That's about it. That's all I have time for, and I'm sure, rachel, most of the athletes you have are time sensitive. I mean, we have jobs. We're not getting paid to run, it's our hobby, we're hobby joggers, so I'm sure that's a pretty common thing. Yeah, once a week, that's sometimes. Sometimes I'm lucky to get there once a week, so yeah, and that's great.

Rachel Laymon:

Like I said, I mean that's four or so times that you go through the month.

Casey Koza:

Just got to be consistent, that's with running. With anything being consistent, you get a lot of results quick. While we're talking about strength, I've noticed another trend, as I'm staring at mine, that I've had for years now Weighted vests seem to be popular. I noticed men and women in my neighborhood walking around with weighted vests on pretty frequently now. Is that a new trend? I know you know. Being a member of Mike's gym in the Valley, Big Tree Fitness, you know he's been doing the weight vest thing for a number of years. So is that something new that people are doing and I know they're runners because I see them running other times as well Not in the weighted vest, I should add. That's probably not a good idea, but just walking around in weighted vests is that a new thing?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, so the weighted vests. I have seen that, I guess, on social media a lot.

Casey Koza:

Is it a TikTok thing?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, so I have a TikTok. I'm not really on it much.

Casey Koza:

I'm not on it at all.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, my husband sends me funny reels throughout the day, so when I open it up sometimes it shows like an initial reel and then it'll go to his. So I have seen some weighted vest TikToks, I guess in that way. So I do think that they're popular, I guess, or maybe being used more right now. I have had one person use them while they walked, um, and she loved it. I mean she, she was raving about it, she just felt like it was the perfect thing she needed at that time for her, for her walks.

Rachel Laymon:

I do think there's some validity to gaining a little bit of strength. If you're like walking I don't know if you're running, if that would be the best idea in general, I think that could really do some things to your form and I don't know if that would be really good for overall, like for running specifically. I get the idea of it, though, maybe if you're running with the extra weight, but I think the placement of it could maybe be a little bit harmful. I don't really know how the vests are totally made. I think the weight would be evenly distributed, but it almost reminds me of running while pregnant or something, and your weight is so it's so different and I get the extra challenge of that for sure. So yeah, I've never personally tried one, though. Have you guys tried a weighted vest at all?

Casey Koza:

I've hiked in it Rob's more of the weighted vest, so we'll have to get his opinion on it, rob.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, I think, depending on the weight, it can be pretty useful though, right, I mean, most trail runners have some type of vest on. Some have the full bladder that could be carrying a lot of water, a lot of weight. So you could simulate that through a weighted vest, right, just to get used to it. But I don't know if that's the best use case for a weighted vest. You know, at the end of the day, and try running in those things, it's just hard on the knees, hard on the hips, probably not the best training tool for running. Hiking, yes, when it's not moving around, I could see that.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, I could see hiking and walking being, yeah, more beneficial there for sure.

Casey Koza:

And you burn more calories, carrying an extra 15, 20 pounds, whatever. Yeah, you're going to burn more calories if that's your goal, and work a little bit harder. But before we go, rachel, I have one topic I wanted to bring up, actually earlier, but I forgot, because I forgot a lot. That's why I write everything down the topic of sodium bicarbonate. I know it's become a hot button thing. Companies are selling it. It's just, I mean, it's baking soda sold for an exorbitant amount of money. What are your feelings on it? Does it have any benefit to runners? Do you think?

Rachel Laymon:

I don't know. I feel like there's other things you could use or try and probably have a better outcome as far as improving your running than taking this Over time. The things I've read about it it seems like it's good for like more like shorter, explosive type of activity, Um, but it's also advertised. Like Morton, for example, they seem to kind of advertise it to more of the you know, ultra runners too, or distance runners. Um, yeah, I don't personally I have nobody who uses it. I've never tried it myself, Um, I I'm definitely not against trying things. I think it's like, hey, why not give it a try? See, see what it's like? Um, but as far as it being something that could take your running to the next level, I don't think that that's it. I think fueling and hydrating properly would really get a lot of people to the next level, and then maybe if you're using, like I don't know, a super shoe or something like that might even produce more benefit than something like this. That's kind of my opinion on it.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's pretty much my opinion, it's across the board. I want to say, rob and we've asked this question of either dieticians or people in the industry They've all pretty much said the same thing. A friend of the show, will Walmsley, who's a chemical engineer I think he's a chemical yeah, he's a chemical engineer. Yeah, he pretty much had the same sentiment Like, yeah, kind of out on that. So, yeah, I hear it all the time. But that's another thing. Like you, you see all these things online and there's so much information and so many people trying to sell you something at all times on the Internet that it's kind of dystopian, but it's, you know, hey, something, something worth talking about and hopefully you know people can fix in your diet strength, recovery, fueling during the race, very important. We found out how, rob.

Rob Myers:

Oh yeah, no, I think you just made a great point, though, and we've asked that question to many folks at this point and we have yet to hear anyone who's like team bicarb, you know all day long. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's usually a lot of well. Maybe don't recommend it. I've read some studies. You know it's it's. There's no one that's very enthusiastic in their answer.

Casey Koza:

Put it that way yeah, it's kind of in the same bucket as ketones, I think yeah same bucket. There's always something new in sports, that you know. I'll just try this magical elixir. Rather than go run your six miles today, just eat this rachel and you'll be. You'll be faster and better, right right, right.

Rachel Laymon:

It's like the overarching theme of people in general like what's the quick fix? How can I get faster? By doing less, or drinking something or eating something, you know? Um, yeah, I feel like it's in that theme of of that I agree, and it's.

Casey Koza:

It is like that's why I have guests like you come on that hey, you know, here's what it takes to do better now you know. So go do it and get better. It's. It's not an easy process, it's a long one, and consistency and doing things the right way tend to put your trajectory in an upwards one. So hopefully that's something people take away from the show, right, rob?

Rob Myers:

Yeah, running for most people that we're talking to, is more of a lifestyle. Right, don't get me wrong. There are plenty of sports out there and folks that do other things will run just for the health benefits, but it's a lifestyle.

Casey Koza:

Thank you again for joining us for a second time, rachel. I certainly appreciate that. It's great to have you in our running community here. We talked a little bit about that before the show, like how deep our running community trail running, ultra running, marathons, half marathoners got a lot of fast people in the Akron area and you know we certainly appreciate what you do for that community. I see you out at all these different events with your company. So again I just appreciate you being a part of it with us out here in the greater Akron area.

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, absolutely. I feel really fortunate to kind of be in this position and be connected to so many runners. It's just such a supportive community. It's like overwhelming support always, and it's from day one. You just kind of realize that at your first race and that you do. You just kind of look around like, wow, this is really cool, this is a really cool community to be part of. So, yeah, thanks.

Rob Myers:

Yeah absolutely so, Rachel. Where can our listeners find you on the interwebs?

Rachel Laymon:

Yeah, so, um, instagram, uh, facebook, it's uh run well, be well. I'm run well, be well, uh, on both platforms. That's. That's mainly where I'm at. Um, my website is just run well, be wellcom.