Warm Weather Banter And Guest Intro

Casey Koza 0:34

Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Hobby Jogger. I am Casey Coza, your co-host, who is once again joined by Mr. Rob Myers. Rob, how are we doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Doing pretty well. It's finally warming up uh down here in the southeast. I think we hit 80 degrees, so I'm not trying to rub it in, but man, it was nice today.

Casey Koza 0:55

Hey, I ran in shorts and a t-shirt yesterday, so there's nothing to rub in, my friend. I was out there living life. I don't think I will be living that same life this week, but at least I got a day in. So if you get a day, you get a day, right? You gotta enjoy it when you get it. That's right. That's right. Now, Rob, our guest today, we've mentioned numerous times on the show. He's uh local here to me in Akron. Uh, he is, I guess the namesake we'll say of Project Outruns, Outrun Eamon. Not to bury the lead there, but our guest today is Eamon, Eamon Scullian. How are you doing today, Eamon?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

Casey Koza 1:31

Yeah, I guess I should have asked you how to pronounce the the last name since I've never asked you that before. Is it Scullian? Yep. Perfect. Awesome. See that, Rob? I got it. First take. I'm impressed. That never happens. That might actually be the first. So yeah, good on me for today. Things are going well so far. So yeah, thanks for joining us, Amon. Appreciate it. Yeah, happy to be here. Yeah, it's been a long time coming to get you on the show. There's just all you've always done something new and cool that was like, I'll wait till after he does that, and then I'll have him on the show. So yeah, I thought, you know, this would be the perfect time. Even maybe, maybe should have done it earlier, but here we are, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, finally getting it in.

Eamon’s Roots: Morocco To Ohio

Casey Koza 2:11

Yeah, finally getting it in. So yeah, yeah, appreciate you joining. And uh yeah, you're you're a local guy here. Uh when did you move to Akron? I don't think I are you a local? Did you grow up here?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Uh no. Uh I went to Kent State and then uh after graduating, uh I think I was in Kent for about two more years. So maybe like 2015, 2000, 2016, uh, made the jump to Kent or uh made the jump from Kent to Akron. Okay.

Casey Koza 2:44

Okay. And did did you run at your time at Kent?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yep. Uh was uh track and field and cross-country athlete uh at Kent State.

Casey Koza 2:54

Got it. Okay. I didn't I didn't know that. Didn't know you were uh a Kent alumni. Uh yep, golden flesh. Now, did you grow did you grow up in the area?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Uh I was born in Morocco, and then we moved to the States when I was 10, and uh we moved to Salem, Ohio. So uh did middle school and high school in uh a small little Quaker town, uh Salem, Ohio, and then uh went to Kent after that.

Casey Koza 3:27

Oh, nice, nice. Salem, Ohio. I've I I believe I've driven through it maybe a couple times. I don't know that I've spent much time in Salem, Ohio. So you you moved from Morocco, that's a big move. Yeah. Did in and you were 10, so obviously you probably weren't. I I don't know what the running scene is. Is there a youth running in in Morocco?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Because it is it Um, if there is, I never saw it. Um there's a government run like program where I I've heard there's a like a running van that drives around in in a lot of the like poor neighborhoods, and they see soccer's very big in Morocco. Uh they see a bunch of kids playing soccer, and they will take them into the van. I believe they test uh some specific markers, uh, and if they score high on those, they uh talk to the family and say, Hey, we're gonna give your kids a better life. And uh they move to like uh like this running academy where they're just like training, uh eating, sleeping, doing all the things, and maybe getting a government stipend. And uh I I assume the family probably gets a little bit of money as well. Um, I don't know how popular that is, but kind of similar to like the Kenyan camps, but uh maybe a little more organized by the government.

Casey Koza 4:56

Got it. Yeah, holy shit. That's like Jedi testing, like the Midaclorians or or whatever. They're just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I know all the like fast mid-distance guys from the 90s are a product of that. I guess I'm not sure if they still do that, but uh yeah. Okay, that's I was not a part of that.

Casey Koza 5:16

Got it, yeah. That's that's wild. I've never heard of something like that, but I I guess it makes sense. You you probably get a pretty good idea of you know, looking through the DNA of someone of what their capabilities, I guess, could be.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

But that's pretty wild, yeah. You know, like vans driving around clocking people. I see somebody at a six-minute pace, and they're like, uh, we got something special for you, you know. Come on.

Casey Koza 5:39

Free running shoes on the side of the van, huh?

From Soccer To Running And Collegiate Years

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, it's uh the it's a version of the ice cream truck, but there's no ice cream in there.

Casey Koza 5:48

Yeah, just a just a needle to to pull some DNA. Yeah, that's wild. I've I've never heard of that. That's that's pretty pretty interesting. Pretty pretty wild. Yeah. Okay, so so you grew up in Salem, did I imagine you ran in high school and in cross-country there since you ran at Kent, correct?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, I had a slow start. I was again, I my first love was soccer. So um I love soccer. Um, I was probably just like a mediocre soccer guy, and but I loved it. So I started out most of my athletic beginnings was was soccer related, and uh running was you know the punishment for uh whatever you did uh wrong. So I I didn't I didn't really like running. Uh and I didn't start in high school until my uh sophomore year. So yeah. Got it. Okay.

Casey Koza 6:48

Yeah, soccer, that's my first passion as well. And yeah, it was yeah, didn't didn't really like running. Like, you know, just knocking the ball around and you knock one across the field and you have to run and go get it. You're like, ah, geez, that's that sucks, man. You know? Exactly. It's like, oh, let's go run 20 miles this Saturday. It's yeah, yeah, yeah, whole different world. So I didn't know you were a soccer player. That's yeah, makes sense. You know, come up growing up in Morocco and and coming over here and cool. So so you you ran, went to college, you ran, and what brought you to the longer distances? What got you interested there? Because I know you you've run some pretty run some pretty far races.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Just a little bit of curiosity. Um I guess I think at this point the marathon 50k distance is probably my best distance. And I I really am interested in getting better at the longer distances. So it's just something new, I think, for me. And and moving from the roads to trails and and trying to figure that out as as more of a trackslash road background.

Roads Vs Trails: Fitness, Adaptation, And Myths

Casey Koza 8:05

I know it's it's you know, obviously, I follow trail running mostly, or I participate in it, I should say, and it's starting to see more road guys come over. And I know there's a ton of differences. I and and Rob, but I think we're actually seeing one of my theories come true here, Eamon, the footballer, uh, you know, now trail running. Because I think it does take a different level of athleticism, Eamon, to run trails than it does roads. Uh what what's as someone you know, you have a much different view of this than me. What is your opinion on that? Uh when it comes to like well, like I like because you have roadrunners, right? And I just think there's just a whole it and they can just run straight for as you know at the threshold pace, and that's it. Whereas I feel like trail running requires a whole different level of of athleticism that maybe you don't see in roadrunning, and roadrunners don't get exposed to.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I guess my opinion is a little bit, I would say it's I think it's a little stubborn, and it sides with I think the fitness is fitness. Um I I think you just have to keep coming back. I think a lot of guys they move from the roads and try to run something longer, something on the trail. It doesn't go right right off the bat, and they don't try it again, or maybe they try it one more time and and they they give up. I I think the floodgates are gonna open with these guys. So far, it hasn't really translated, but I I think it will eventually, and you'll see fast road guys go into longer stuff, it's gonna be a little more seamless. Got it.

Casey Koza 10:02

So I I see what you're saying. You can't just do all your training on roads and then hop over to uh you know a pretty competitive 50k race on trails with some elevation and just think you're going to be able to finish the same place like as in a marathon that you would at the is in the 50k, correct?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Is that what you're like kind of I think that's coming, and I think it's it's there. It's just the examples are so little that that that most guys fail. I think the more the guys try it, I I think there'll be more success. They just need a couple more at bats.

Casey Koza 10:40

Yeah, got it. Okay, yeah. I I I tend to agree with that, I think. There's levels.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

I mean, there's levels, yeah. I think at the elite level, yeah, Amon's 100% correct. But I think when you get down to even some decent runners, the hobby joggers, you know, the middle pack, towards the front of the pack. I I've known quite a few people that were just you know ride or die roadrunners, never get on the trail. And you get on the trail with them, and they just completely fall apart, you know. But at the elite level, those guys that just athletic low heart rate, they can just haul regardless of the train. There's probably a little bit of time to adapt, but at the end of the day, being elite in the league.

Casey Koza 11:17

Yeah, I I think a runner with a high running economy is going to be good at running regardless of the same pace, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, and obviously trains differently going up and down punchy hills, lots of uh lots of climbing, but yeah, it's two different sports.

Why Black Canyon 100K And Race Strategy

Casey Koza 11:31

Yeah, yeah. And and that leads us to to Eamon here, who recently took a crack at the Black Canyon 100K. I was there to see it. Uh you were doing awesome until you weren't.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I mean, uh, to take your Strava title, it was going well till it didn't.

Casey Koza 11:50

So yeah, I mean, that's I guess you know, that's trail running. Like sometimes it just sometimes that happens. So what what made you first let's rewind a little bit? What made you want to take this shot at Black Canyon 100K?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Um, for me, most of the time when I'm picking races, um I'm picking one that's highly competitive. Yep. Uh so when I picked Black Canyon, uh, I saw that it's most likely the most competitive 100K um in the US at least. And um kind of want to go and see what that's all about.

Casey Koza 12:32

Yeah, I I don't think that's even a slight exaggeration. In fact, I think you're spot on it. Almost certainly is the uh the most competitive 100k in the US. I I struggle to find anything that's more comp as a tougher field. So you really did just jump into the deep end there. You didn't, you know, it wasn't a local race. It was in maybe the world, and Will's gonna fact check me on that. I'm gonna have like you know 36 text messages on Tuesday morning of you know other 100Ks that are more competitive. But to me, I mean, I think it is. So this is my show, and Will's opinion doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, I mean, uh the just going off the lists of people who were there, I'd have to say, you know, it was pretty big. Um now the day of the race, I feel like a lot of people went for it, like me, and and didn't have those days, uh, or didn't have the day they wanted, but made it for a really interesting race and obviously a very fast one up front.

Casey Koza 13:33

Yeah, for sure. It was definitely fast. Um take us through the beginning. Like let's start out with the first 12 miles of the race. It being your first, you know, very competitive race. Like I said, you just jumped right into the deep end. What was going on in your mind during that opening bit?

Early Miles, Positioning, And Pacing Choices

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So, like many others, um, I wanted to be aggressive, but not crazy, um, and just kind of move my way up. And I think the first 12 for me went went really well. I think tracking was all over the place, but I I think I was right where I wanted to be in like that top 20 or 30 overall. And in my head, I think I'm capable of racing uh really even. So my plan was to, and I know this is very hard on this course, is to even or like negative split, or at least I went in with that mentality. So the first 12 miles uh focusing on taking nutrition, not going down on the trail.

Casey Koza 15:09

Good plan, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Uh uh kind of trying to keep that front pack in check, even though they were pretty gone, like three miles in.

Casey Koza 15:19

Yeah, they were were were you surprised by that? Like I I know you're expecting, you know, you're you signed up for the toughest race, but were you surprised at the speed those guys went out with the first 5k?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Not really, because when you're when you're in the race, and especially on that trail, it looks like they're not that far ahead.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Uh so I wasn't seeing their splits. Had I seen their first like five miles, I think I would have been more panicked. For me, I was like, well, I can still see the pack. Uh, or I can still see, you know, whoever was falling off that pack for quite a while. So that was, I was like, I'm in the right spot.

Casey Koza 16:06

Nice. Yeah. And and Rob and I, uh, I ran 20 miles of the course this year, so I'm familiar at least with the 12. And Rob's ran the 50k, 60k back when he ran it. Uh so you can see quite a far distance. Um, I I was worried though, Eamon. I, you know, because all we have to go on is the cell phone tracking. I can't see who's who. I think I might have texted the group like, hey, what's he wearing? It was like white shirt. It was like, well, that was everybody's wearing a white shirt. Yeah, everybody's wearing a white shirt. That was stupid of me to ask. I think figured. Yeah. So yeah, we're I I'm flying blind. I have no idea where you're at. It's like, and like you said, the tracking's all messed up.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

I think my crew said at one early on, they said I was in like 70th place. And if I was, it didn't feel like it.

Casey Koza 16:51

So I was like, oh man, you know, obviously I was I had an idea in my mind of where you should be, and 70th place was not that. After the 19 mile checkpoint, I don't think you were in 70th place for sure, because then you get to Bumblebee and you have significantly moved up the field. Uh you were in, I I don't remember, uh like top top 20 for sure, right? I believe so, yeah. Yeah, and and that's a cool experience, I think, because I was there last or last time Rob and I were there, I was there for the the leaders to come through. A little bit probably different than a marathon going through the first water station, I imagine, right? Completely different.

Bumble Bee Aid: Crewing, Energy, And Cooling

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I mean, I I expected it to be less exciting, and it was way more exciting, and the the just the crews and the media coverage, and it's cool because you get to kind of just take it in a little bit more. You're not you don't have the blinders on like you do in the marathon, at least for me. I I don't even I could look at somebody and not really know who they are. You're just in in in the zone where you get to take a little bit more of this, especially um at Bumblebee, because you know, you're not having to worry about uh catching a rock and going down.

Casey Koza 18:12

No, no. Uh well, you shouldn't be worried about always going down on that course, but uh into it. Yeah, you don't want to catch a cactus in the face. But yeah, that I I we talked a little bit after, but that was one thing I was really excited to see was you come through Bumblebee and just the amount of people there, the amount of spectators, fans, your crew. Did you have a tough time finding uh Nikki and your crew? Because it's you know it's kind of chaos. You're coming through with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

They uh parked themselves at the end uh of the crew uh section where the very close to where the red flag is. Got it. Um, and there was nobody there. What I had a tough time with, and it was not really a big deal. I I got there and I was like, well, do I like run under this structure? I'm not used to that, and so I was like, this seems like the it's the wrong way.

Casey Koza 19:14

But you've never run a marathon that goes through a bar?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

No, no, so uh I was a little confused there, but I was like, well, uh just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

And uh they were right there, so and that first that first crew uh spot was um it was perfect.

Casey Koza 19:33

Got it. So they were after the bar that you run through. Exactly. Okay, got it. Yep, I know right right where they were at. Uh, because I think we saw them there the following day, maybe or something. But uh yeah, so that's cool. So you get to the first first crewed aid station, and I know uh, you know, Rob and I being out there before, we've got to witness how happy everyone is at Bumblebee, the level like the energy level very high.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Oh, Bumblebee's awesome, and it probably has the nicest bathrooms of any aid station.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I mean, come on, yeah, it it's just a nice spot overall.

Casey Koza 20:09

Yeah, really cool place. Uh, just you're like on a ranch, which is which is pretty sweet. And so you get to the crew. How were you feeling at that point? Because you look pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I felt great. Uh nutrition's going down really well, which I wasn't worried about, but just curious how it would go because I just haven't really uh run 100k distance uh before. Um was a little worried about cooling, so uh I think at that point I started cooling and uh I felt great.

Climbing Strong, Technical Sections, And Momentum

Casey Koza 20:47

Then you go up big climb, and I know previously you and I had spoken, you you ran a race over in Switzerland. You actually uh, you know, for being a quote unquote flatlander here in Ohio, you enjoyed the climbs over there, correct?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

I think I enjoy climbing more than descending. So that that next climb uh was kind of welcome in when I looked at it on all the maps, it I thought it was gonna be I thought it was gonna be tougher than it was, at least at that point.

Casey Koza 21:22

Yeah, not that steep, but pretty long. Like it is a a fairly long climb, which we don't, unless you have a treadmill, you don't really get to experience here in Ohio. I think I remember correctly, you picked off at least a few people up that climb, correct? Yeah, yeah. So that's where you kind of started moving moving through the field.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, there was a couple guys. Um, I think there was a couple guys that were walking, and in my head, I was like, this far up in the field, and 20 miles in, and they're walking. Based on how I felt, I'm like, well, I think I'm in I'm in a good position here. Yeah, just started picking people off.

Casey Koza 22:01

Yeah, and that's it, that gets to be a uh a tougher part of the course for sure. Like it's more rock, it's rockier, a little bit narrow turns, technical, I guess, is is the word I'm looking for there. But you enjoy the technical trails as opposed to you know the smooth, buttery first 20 miles of the race, correct?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, I I would consider myself pretty good on technical trail. It it seemed good at that point. I was good.

Casey Koza 22:32

Yeah, yeah. And in you get to Black Canyon, we're there when you come through Black Canyon, and big group. Uh, you you picked up the the pacer there, decided to go with the pacer, and you seem to be feeling pretty good. Everything you looked a lot better than you know the four or five people that came in in front of you. And I know and and Rob will. Agree with me here. You see a lot of sad faces at at Black Canyon uh at the 50k mark. You see some people like, oh shit, you know, a lot of people close to death.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

I'm just walking through.

Casey Koza 23:07

You see some really sad faces at that aid station. But you were, I mean, it could be your game face, I don't know, but you seemed like you were moving very well. You seemed good. Everything seemed to be going, you know, your way, correct?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah. So pick up Alex uh Phillips, my pacer. Uh, he's like the the most of the guys in front are looking really rough. And the crew I would agree with Alex.

Casey Koza 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Their crew said that as well. And I didn't really pay too much attention to that because I was like, well, they're just trying to hype me up so I can pick, you know, keep moving well. I was just trying to focus on uh continuing to get the fuel in and just really keep the heart rate down at that point.

Casey Koza 24:01

Yeah, and that's important because it's starting to get hot, the sun's overhead, beating down on you. It does and you're getting down or down further in elevation. So it it certainly warms up pretty quick at Black Canyon from the beginning because it's I mean, it was freezing, I think, at the start. And so by the time you left Black Canyon, it was it felt pretty warm, and the sun makes it feel for sure warm, right?

Picking Up A Pacer And Reading The Field

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, I mean, I could feel the heat kind of creeping up, and I could feel it, you know, that uh I was aware. Got cooled off at at the cruise spot, and I wasn't too worried about the heat at that point. So it seemed like it was manageable.

Casey Koza 24:43

Yeah, and your pacer didn't seem too worried about it either. I don't think Alex took a water bottle, I think he took a phone and uh and uh in his shoes with him. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

He is uh super new and super minimal when it comes to accessories and fuel.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah, yeah. Hold on one second, no water bottle. Did I hear that correctly?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

I I I'm thinking he didn't. I I don't know. And on top of that, his footwear choice, uh, Brooks launch, uh uh very blue-collar roadshoe.

Casey Koza 25:18

Yeah, he Alex is uh yeah, he he's a one-of-a-kind trail runner. He he fits the bill perfectly. Yeah, I it was it was fun to watch him on Sunday, too. Yeah, he had a good day. Yeah. So you leave Black Canyon. Uh I know I ate afterwards, talked to you a little bit, but you started picking a couple more people off.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, and then I found myself running in between two guys. Um, not sure who the guy in the front was who was doing all the pacework. Um, but the guy behind me I recognize was Sage, who is a veteran. Uh, and I was like, oh, um, so there's a guy in front of me doing all the work. I got Sage behind me. I'm just gonna sit here. I just sat there.

Casey Koza 26:05

Yeah, good, good plan. I mean, Sage, he's you know, interesting fella, been in a lot of races, uh, and certainly experienced enough to to be hanging with the the front pack. So yeah, good good call, I I'd say. Yeah. So making your way up a little bit further into the race, it was wasn't too much further after Black Candy, correct? Did you make to the next aid station?

Heat Management And The Desert Midday Shift

SPEAKER_01 26:30

I was getting close to the next aid station, and uh out of nowhere, my groin is I did something to my groin. So at at that point, uh I walk it into the aid station, try to stretch the groin, get some fluids. I had two 500 mil soft flasks full. I mean, I really didn't need anything, but I was trying to problem solve what was going on um with my groin, which just popped out of nowhere. Yeah.

Casey Koza 27:06

That was going over a cattle gate, correct?

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Was that the I think it happened before it it happened on flat right before the cattle gate, but I I tried to I I had just kind of hopped over most of the cattle gates, and that wasn't I had to kind of hang on to the rail and like gingerly walk over.

Casey Koza 27:29

Man, that's that's tough. You you do all that work, you know, really, you know, I don't want to say survive, but you you ran very well the first half to to put yourself in a position to move forward and have an injury pop up like that, that's not from like going down or you know, you know, just like a groin pool essentially.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah, it was it was tough. And I mean, I thought maybe I could walk for a little bit, and I I tried to, and I thought, well, maybe maybe this isn't serious. And so I walked for a little bit and I could I could just feel it uh when I was walking, and there was just no lifting my right leg was not happening. I did some math and we were right around like 38 miles, and I could probably hike walk another eight, but it was gonna be a lot more than that. So I uh at that point decided to call it.

Casey Koza 28:28

Yeah, live to fight another day. Uh sometimes it's not your day, you know, and and uh you gotta sort things out. Have you got it sorted out? Has the groin been sorted out since?

The Groin Injury And Tough Call To Drop

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Or so I took a couple days off, and those days I could feel it when I was walking uh through the airport when I got back, saw uh my PT and the the day that I saw him that morning I woke up, I felt fine. I ran that day, and I could feel some tightness and tenderness. May have not been as serious as I thought. I'm I'm still not sure. Yeah. Uh I take the rest of the week kind of easy with some cross-training and running, and then uh the next week I jump back into the type of training I'd been doing leading up to this race. So that's been a little bit frustrating because I just I I don't know where I'm at at this point. So, but I'm um I am happy that I'm not injured.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

So it's it's a terrible injury too. I mean, especially for runners. It's just a constant you move your legs, doesn't matter what you're doing with a groin pull. Yeah. I mean, there's some you can kind of push through, you can run through it, but that's not one of them, in my opinion. At least the ones I've experienced. Yeah.

Casey Koza 29:53

And as someone with a history of groin injuries, I can tell you there's nothing you could put on it or should put on it for that matter. Uh I I learned that lesson the hard way, um, using Ben Gay on a groin pool, and it it it didn't go well.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Uh what a good idea, Casey.

Casey Koza 30:13

Yeah, I was like 15. I yeah, I wasn't experienced in the world yet, so I learned my lesson and yeah, uh yeah, tough injury to deal with, and glad you're you're back and okay, and uh excited to see what you have on the horizon or what's next because you just hopped back into the trading. I saw you had a couple longer runs uh since then. What what do you have plans for?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I feel like I need to uh see where I'm at fitness-wise. So I'm I've I've been looking. Um I had I reached out to three races, um Glass City. Um, so I'm in, I'm in, I'm signed up for Glass City Marathon in Toledo, Cleveland Marathon, uh, as a backup if if if I'm not ready for Toledo. And then I had a buddy who was signed up for uh Mad City 100k, and uh is not really where he wants to be. So he was gonna see if he could transfer his bib to me. Um after I really looked at that race, I I don't think it interests me. Um I want to go back to Black Canyon. So as soon as registration is open, I'm I'm signing up. Uh and then I I'm most likely gonna run Toledo just to kind of get a check mark of like where I really am. I I think I'm probably in very close to like marathon P PR shape for me. So I I need I need to kind of know.

Recovery, Uncertainty, And Training Resets

Casey Koza 31:45

Yeah, yeah. And you certainly put the the mileage in and and glad you want to go back to Black Canyon. That's that's always a good sign in the athlete when you know it's not like oh that was too much for me, you know. Hate to see that. So really excited that you're you're excited to go back to Black Canyon. Is there anything that you would change? Is there anything that you learned that you took away from that?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

I've I've kind of gone back and forth. I've I've had days where I'm like, I don't think I would change anything. There's just so many variables, and there's just some things that are out of your control. Um, I think overall, if if I want to be competitive in trail running at that distance, I think I need to just have a more trail 50K or trail 100K races under my belt. And I think that's it.

Casey Koza 32:44

Yeah, for for sure. Experience is, I mean, invaluable, especially in this sport when it comes to fueling and just problem solving. You know, you're trying to, you know, solve problems on the go. And the more times you do it, the more. Oh, I I remember when this happened at this race, and here's what I did, you know, type thing to to fix it. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm super excited that you want to want to go back. It's no problem ever getting me to go to Phoenix in February, huh, Rob?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Nope. I think number two race, we got Canyons in two months. Just saying, I'll be out there.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I looked at Canyons, it was just it would be I think it'd be a tough turnaround. Uh Black Canyon was a big trip, and and you know, I I canyons, I think, is definitely in the future for me after I maybe after I get Black Canyon right.

Casey Koza 33:32

Nice, nice. Glad to glad to see that. Uh yeah, and I know you were, I mean, you've run some trail races here locally, Buckeye and uh the sweatshirt you're wearing, loop the lake.

What’s Next: Glass City, Cleveland, And A Return

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, loop the loop the lake is uh a race I ran to kind of see where I was at. And in hindsight, you know, I ran really fast there, but I probably should have um found something that was uh not on the roads, maybe more technical as uh see where I was at race.

Casey Koza 34:05

Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, a little bit little bit different uh terrain, I guess. To yeah, because it you gotta compare apples to apples probably helps a little bit in that sense. Now, one thing I wanted to ask you about, Amon, while I have you here, I know it's you know crossing over a little bit. Project Outrun that you're involved with. I know we we've had them on the show before. Uh we got their, you know, uh from from how they do it and have done it and came up with the the race. How did you get involved with Project Outrun?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Uh I was at another local 5K um that Project Outrun supports. I had um the idea uh which Andy uh has implemented in his race um in my head, and and I was gonna do something in Highland Square uh area. And uh I told him about my idea and he he kind of ran with it and was like, hey, can I can I use your idea? And I was like, absolutely. So I don't hear from him for a couple of months, and I get a call and he's like, I need you to be involved. And I I, you know, I was like, Yeah, I can come volunteer, run whatever you need. He's like, No, I want you to be the guy that everybody outruns. So I was I was a little taken back and kind of like, man, that means, you know, I gotta stay in kind of shape year after year as long as this event's gonna happen. So, but it's it's it's for a fun cause, and uh it's for a great cause, and it's a fun day, and uh it's just a a really nice group of people uh to work with. And Andy and and Courtney both worked work really hard to put that uh event on that day.

Casey Koza 35:56

Yeah, they're awesome. You know, I I I appreciate their time coming on here to talk about it. I I think it is that the only episode I've cried in, Rob? I think.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Uh that might have been a second one, but might have been. I think that was the only one. Yeah, it was awesome. Nothing wrong with crying.

Casey Koza 36:14

No, absolutely not. I I I hey, I have no shame in the fact of hearing the story of it of crying.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

No, that's not there's a reason I was on mute so often. I mean, yeah.

Lessons Learned And Value Of Ultra Experience

Casey Koza 36:27

No, the everything they that they're doing, I I I think is awesome. You know, helping kids battle pediatric cancer takes a special person to do. Uh absolutely. And and such a such strong people, because I I mean the outcome is not always what you want it to be. And you know, you gotta be there in the in the tough times as as well as the joyous times, and that's just you know, a lot of uh tons of respect for the people that work in in the pediatric cancer wards and and all first responders. Absolutely, but especially the pediatric cancer wards and and people that work in PEDs in general, that what they have to see every single day is you know, you see miracles, but yeah, they're not always miracles, and yeah, hats off to them.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah.

Casey Koza 37:15

Now I know this isn't that since we're talking about shoes, I know you know you're down there at the second soul, you're one of my local resources. Uh for shoes. Uh stop in often to see you there. You had an interesting choice of shoe, I thought, for the the Black Canyons, which you really like. The the Adite, I'm gonna get the name wrong, so I'm just gonna let you say the shoe you are.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Adidas uh Ultra Speed Agravic. I'm not sure if it's in that order, but yeah.

Casey Koza 37:44

Yeah, that's probably closer than I or Rob would have got, I imagine, right, Rob? I can't make those sounds with my mouth. Yeah. So and it's it's the second version of the shoe, which I I actually didn't until you told me you were gonna wear it, I didn't even know it was out. Um, because I I I didn't care for the first version of the shoe, but you really like the shoe. I saw you in them yesterday. You know, we do do a lot of shoe content here. So, what's your take on the shoe after the Black Canyon? Would you wear it again?

Project Outrun: Origin, Role, And Impact

SPEAKER_01 38:11

I would probably have to think about that one. I still love the shoe. Uh I think it felt great on half of the course that I ran. Um, I think the sections where you're doing these like 100 and I can't even say 80, 105 degree turns. Yeah, you're riding a vert pipe, is what you're doing on some of the yeah. Uh and it right after that, there's a patch of rocks that looks like somebody just placed there. Um, I would probably go with something like the Hoka Rocket X or the uh Nike ACG Ultrafly. Ian, our Nike rep just uh gifted me, uh uh seeded me some Nike Ultraflies. So I do have um something I need to try out. They seem to be probably a little more stable and and on that train, maybe probably a better option. And I think I I've tried the Hoka Rocket X uh in our shop, and it it feels pretty similar. So maybe if I go back, I I'll I'll pick something that's not quite so uh I would have to say aggressive.

Casey Koza 39:34

Yeah, I I agree with you on that. I only know the first version of the shoe, and I I wore it down in, you know, I mean sand run, my my normal loop down there on the trails, um, dogwood trail. And I was like, if I wear this shoe, I'm gonna break my leg. Like there's just not super stable, yeah, yeah, not super stable, but it's different shoes for everyone. I mean, just because I say that means has no bearing on anybody else. So I I certainly get that you know every shoe is different and shoes fit different people. But yeah, I just thought that was interesting. I I don't I didn't really pay attention to anyone else's shoes there.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

I did for the 50k. I saw a lot of yeah, uh the Ultrafly and maybe just because it's so bright, and I did see a lot of uh Rocket X's and uh the other Hokus shoe that um the Tekton three, the Tekton four, three, four, oh, is there a four now? Three. Three now. I can't remember.

Casey Koza 40:33

No, it's not that I like that. I really like the two. I wish they'd still sell the two.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Uh I have the two, so it must be the three with the the sock sleeve that comes up a little bit.

Casey Koza 40:42

Yeah, yeah, that's the three. That is that it and I actually really like that shoe. That's it's it's pretty stable, and yeah, I I like it. Um yeah, it's interesting getting your opinion on that and seeing what your thoughts were on the Adidas, the new Adidas shoe, which do you care? You don't carry it at Second Sol, correct?

SPEAKER_01 41:03

We don't. We just opened uh our account with Adidas, and it might be a shoe we'll carry in the future. Uh so yeah, we're in the process of bringing Adidas back to our shop. Oh, sweet. Yeah.

Casey Koza 41:15

I I need to get a pair of what is it? The SLE? Man, I Rob, I'm so bad with names. Is it the SLE? Like that's like their everyday trainer.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Oh, the Evo SL.

Casey Koza 41:25

Evo SL. Yep. They have a Bob Marley color, uh, colorway. I need to get.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

They're doing really well with the colorways on that shoe.

Gear Talk: Trail Super Shoes And Stability

Casey Koza 41:35

They do, yeah. It's awesome. I maybe I'll stop down there tomorrow and see if you guys can get me a Bob Marley color because yeah, yeah, that's my that's my guy there. I like I like Bob Marley, so nice. Yeah, but but yeah, Amon, thanks a lot. Uh, you know, for for coming on here. We we certainly appreciate your time. And you know, it was awesome watching you there at Black Canyon. I was I was pumped the whole time. Uh you you were training, you know, things were going well for you, it seemed. I don't want to say I was disappointed in you because you did, you know, you got injured, but you know, I I I like that you're hop back on and take another swing at it.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Absolutely. I mean, as long as I'm healthy, um, I'm gonna try to make that my my spring a race.

Casey Koza 42:22

Nice, nice, yeah, yeah. So we're rooting for you. Uh, we will definitely be out there participating in Project Outrun this year because I know I do not have a wedding to attend that weekend, so I will be out there for for Project Outrun. And maybe we'll do another episode on that before Rob. That's a good idea. Get them as much as we can because it's uh cause that is near and dear to my heart. So thank you for your participation in that, Eamon. And hopefully I can beat you. Maybe you'll need you might need to have two beers though. Uh two thirsty dog beers at you know, the last gate. Yeah, yeah. I'll buy one. How about that? I'll buy I'll buy Eamon a second beer there. So give me a chance. Uh that's a deal. Yeah, to to get through there before you. So yeah, thanks again so much for your time, Eamon.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Thank you guys for having me, and thank you, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yeah, so Eamon, before we let you go, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Um, you can come down to the local shop, running shop I work at, Second Soul. Um, or I'm on Facebook, Eamon Scullion, or Instagram, already Eamon.