Meet The Hosts And Guest

Casey Koza 0:34

Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Hobby Jogger. I am your co-host, Casey Coza, once again, joined by Mr. Rob Myers. Rob, how are you doing this evening?

SPEAKER_02 0:45

I'm doing well. Looking forward to uh canyons coming up in two weeks. It's gonna be a fun race.

Casey Koza 0:51

Yeah, I was about to ask. Everything, uh all the preparation for for canyons uh go well.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Put in some of the miles, not nearly as many as I wanted to, but uh yeah, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.

Casey Koza 1:02

As long as you put in some of the miles, that's all that really matters. Gotta get some of the work done and get all of the way there, is the way I like to look at it. We have a new guest here today. Uh man, I'm gonna do my best here, Rob. It is Alex Papadopoulos of a West Virginia Trail Fest. Alex, how did I do on that name? Bingo. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah, you got it, man. Well done.

Casey Koza 1:28

Nice. I finally nailed one, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah, it's like three out of 20.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

If it wasn't on the screen, I'd tell you, spell it right and I'll buy you a beer when I see it, the West Virginia Trail Fest.

Casey Koza 1:40

Well, I will take you up on that beer, Alex. And um pretty excited to talk to you about uh the West Virginia Trailfest here. Um yeah, kind of came up on my radar. You know, uh, let me talk a little bit. I'm I'm running the Laurel Highlands 70 mile and was kind of trying to find a race anywhere. Uh for there was a couple week period there and couldn't really find much and and stumbled upon West Virginia Trailfest. So I'm I'm very happy I did and happy that you have the 30k distance. I think that's about 18 miles, right? 18, 19?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah, yeah, it's 18. It'll it runs it runs closer to 19.

Casey Koza 2:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Uh, but yeah, it's yeah, it's right there, 19 and a half. But yeah, it's it's right there. Uh but yeah, not the not the uh to to give a plug for the Laurel uh Highlands. Uh I think you said in our communications you were out there last week, and absolutely love that race. Uh yeah, I ran it years back, and it is it is hands down one of the funnest, just fun, well organized. Uh I mean, and it's been around for what, almost 50 years, so they're doing something right.

Casey Koza 2:41

Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's my hometown area out there. So that's for the Easter weekend. But yeah, Dan Dan, our friend Dan LG, friend of the show. Shout out, Dan. Does a does a great job out there. And Rob, how many years in a row have we been out there?

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Fourth is this year, or the fifth?

How Alex Found Trail Running

Casey Koza 3:01

Yeah, four or five years we've been out there, Alex. And yeah, I agree. It's it's they do a great job in a beautiful part of the country. Um, you know, so yeah, I grew up out there, so can't say enough nice things, but also, you know, West Virginia being just south of me growing up, uh, very similar to rain down there, also very beautiful. Uh snowshoe, West Virginia. Haven't been there in a long time. Uh, was there as a as a kid? Um, so looking forward to going that. But but first, Alex, I kind of want to know a little bit more about you. Um, what what got you into running and uh specifically trail running? Where did this journey begin?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Jeez, don't don't let the gray hair fool you. Um no, it's how I got into trail running. I I I right out of college, I always ran. Yeah, I always did some type of endurance sports growing up. Uh, you know, nothing extravagant. You know, played soccer and just always running, wrestled, and then uh, you know, right out of college, you know, dabbled in some sports in college, and then just yeah, I found marathons. And then about three years at three, four years after that, I was like, oh, a 50 miler. That sounds much more fun and exciting than a marathon. And oh, you can run trails. And I always loved hiking, and no one ever told me you could run on trails, yeah. You know, Captain Obvious, right? Yeah. Uh and yeah, and it was just it was just a just a simple start. And I I live here in uh Northern Virginia, and you know, bull run 50 miler, bull run run 50 miler, which was just this past weekend with record heat. Uh, you know, shout out to the team that puts that on with the Virginia Happy Trails Running Club. And yeah, and it was uh yeah, just stumbled upon it and I was like, all right, let's see where we can you know push push the body. And that's yeah, really where it started. It's like, all right, what's that, what's that next boundary that we can find ourselves? You know, somewhere, yeah, probably being a little bit of adrenal adrenaline junkie too. Uh but yeah, it was just it it sort of evolved as like, all right, this 50 miler's cool. Oh, really? Wow.

Casey Koza 5:00

Alex, if you don't mind me me asking, about what year was that? Uh that was shoot, that was 2002. Okay. So you've seen a large swath of you know, change in the trail running world over the years.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, it's it's completely different than than in what it was. Uh yeah, 25 years ago, it was, you know, you didn't have social media pushing, pushing the community, create and creating the communities. Uh, it was really a lot of just you know, listsserve, hey, you know, you know, trail mob uh flash mobs at a trail party at a at a trailhead and just showing up and you know, people running various distances. You just shout out an email, you showed up, you ran, you didn't have all these fancy GPSs that keep you on track now and planning your routes. It was just you just all right, you go there and you've got a paper map, you put it in the Ziploc bag, and you know, you didn't have cell phones as your security blanket or anything like that. It was, you know, no pun intended, it was the Wild West, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Alex, you have one of the most impressive ultra signups I've ever seen. I mean, how many times did you run hurt? Like seven, eight times? I mean, that's a crazy race.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, it is. Um, I've started at 19 times, finished at 17. So uh yeah. Thanks for pointing that out.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Uh that's amazing. I I think I've met maybe two or three people that have run it one time.

Casey Koza 6:30

So so okay, you just ran it in January. That's uh yes, yeah. Pretty impressive there. Uh wow, yeah. I I didn't even look at that. I didn't even normally I pull up the ultra sign up. Uh you know, Alex, I'll be honest, we don't do the most research on this show.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

No, it's all good. I think keep keep it keep it raw.

Casey Koza 6:51

That's honestly truly, Alex. That's kind of what it is. I think you get a more organic uh conversation. Rob sometimes disagrees with me most of the time, I think, but uh, you know. Yeah, yeah. Wow, you really like the HERT 100, Alex. Uh that's um that's the Hawaiian race, correct?

Early Ultras And Life Balance

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, yeah. Hawaii, Hawaii Ultra Running Team, uh wonderful organization uh to go be a part of. Anyone, yeah, I yeah, if you're interested in the race, uh, they've got a lottery system similar to what Hard Rocket uh used to have, uh the previous iteration. Just sign start signing up now if you're interested to start getting those extra lottery tickets. Um, they they get between 500 and uh 700 uh registrants per year. So it's you know, your odds are fairly good that you're gonna get in after a couple three, uh a couple three years. But yeah, I mean you you know, you brought it up a lot of times. I think it's you know, between, you know, as you know, the social running hobby takes a lot of time out of our personal lives, and then you're always, you know, at least uh we're all struggling with that's balance between uh, you know, I'll call it church and state, right? Between, you know, the work life, the home life, and then the ultra life. And then you throw kids in the mix.

Casey Koza 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah. Or or whether it's like a home business or you work for a corporation, it's just, you know, you're cut, it's a constant jungle act to uh maintain that balance. And this in this race just is one of those things. I work I found out about it. I worked there for a year, and you know, I I I started running with the group there, wonderful group, and it's just a race that we fell in love with as a family, and it it ended up fit fit fitting our lifestyle. Uh and it and it didn't, it was a race that I could train for that did not take away from the family, if that makes sense. Um, and they're always out there with me too, which is always great. So they get to experience it.

Casey Koza 8:48

Yeah, probably tough loading up, get convincing them to load up the uh in the plane and go out to Hawaii. I'm sure that's a real tough sell.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah. Yeah, I I'm just gonna say family of four, frequent flyer miles are our best friend.

Casey Koza 9:01

I I I see you have the uh the hellbender race. That's in Virginia, correct? It's not like hey fam, we're gonna go North Carolina. Oh, North Carolina, yeah. It's not like hey, we're gonna we're gonna load up the minivan and go spend the weekend in the woods in North Carolina. It's we're going to Hawaii a little bit a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah, and it's in January too. So, you know, no one no one's ever complaining about going from Virginia to Hawaii in January for uh you know for a handful of days.

Why Become A Race Director

Casey Koza 9:24

No, not a lot of complaints there, I I imagine. So yeah, that's that's really cool. That's that's a race. Yeah, maybe I will start signing up for the the lottery of that. It it it seems uh seems pretty cool. And I I guess you know, looking at your ultra sign-up now, you have a ton of experience running. What decided what made you decide to want to get into race directing? Um, and how did that come about? Because I I I like doing the podcast, podcast is great, but I can't imagine the work, you know. We had Dan LG, like we previously mentioned, the Laurel Highlands on. And I I know just talking to him, the work that goes into it. Uh, so what made you decide to want to do that?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

We started uh with like a good friend Scott Crab. Uh, we're still good friends. Uh he's moved since moved away from the area. Uh so that made it difficult for us to continue working together. But really, back back in the time, back yeah, we started in 2004, 2005. And just if you look at the number of races that existed back then versus now, uh, there wasn't that much out there. And, you know, and we started by hosting uh uh, you know, very analogous to your uh your backyard style events. You know, we we used to do loop races, uh generally no longer than a 10K, uh, where you know you can get new trail runners into the community, you know, with low barriers to entry. You don't have that stress of a cutoff. You know, you're you're a finisher. You know, as long as you finish one loop, you're a finisher. And yeah, and you've got eight hours, and you know, you get people who have never run more than five miles in their life, and oh, it's like this looks like a good idea. I can go for 12 hours and they just keep walking or running in circles. Uh, you know, and you get these people, like I said, no more than five miles and they run 50, or uh they knock out their first 50. Okay, but you know, a lot of it I think was being able to introduce people to the community. There wasn't a lot, uh we there weren't a lot of trailer events at the time. And yeah, and part of it, you know, you know, starting in 2000, uh in the early 2005s, a lot of our races are small. Uh you get to know the community really well. We sort of specialize between 60 and 120, is where most of our events are. Uh, West Virginia is definitely an outlier for the types of events that we've hosted.

Casey Koza 11:39

Yeah, West Virginia has a has a big running uh trail running community. I've I've also run the Kanawa uh Kanawa Trace. Was that what it was called down there in West Virginia? I think so. I think that's yeah. You have a lot of support down there in West Virginia for for trail running for sure, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yeah, it's it's a it's exciting. I mean, that's you know, like you know, from this area, it's like the there's a lot of people who don't know about the trails down there. And and we uh uh uh with co-race director Pat early, we really just we found it by accident. Uh but yeah, but good you know, to answer your tra question specifically, just engage you, allowing people the opportunity to be on trails, to push themselves and just you know, sh share the you know, share the being able to share what I've gotten out of trail running with other people. Uh and in the hopes that maybe they'll discover that or they'll discover something new about themselves, enabling people to push their boundaries. Yeah, whether it's fit yeah, physically, psychologically, and emotionally. Uh where's that barrier? Can we get to it? What's beyond it? Uh or we just hold ourselves back. You know, who knows?

Casey Koza 13:13

Yeah, yeah. And I'm I'm glad you're out there doing it, Alex. Uh, we need more more race directors like you for sure. Have you seen the same people coming back year after year through your races? I know you said you started in 2005. Um, do you do you have like the same group that has followed you through all the races, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah, yeah, we had, you know, sort of, you know, we you have 2005, you know, we're going on year 20. Uh, but you, but you have, yeah, there's there's a good strong and any race, probably between 30 and 50 percent. You're having so some person from yeah, that percentage, a lot of races. There's someone coming back from an from an old race. And sometimes now it's like you haven't seen these people in like seven, eight years, and their name pops up on the list. I was like, oh, I remember that. They ran two races back way back when and they're coming back. You know, it gives you, you know, it gives me a good feeling, I say, but yeah, hopefully, you know, what the volunteers did that come out and help, you know, because you know how you know it's the volunteer corps that you know makes these uh events successfully and I think sometimes, yeah, I'll be pointed, like even with me, I think the race directors get too much credit. And uh, you know, yeah, it's you know, it's the volunteers that are showing up, uh, you know, who who who make the experience for the runners. You know, we're out there pulling permits, marking trails, you know, setting up the environment, but it's the enthusiasm of the volunteers where it's where it's really at. And those I think those folks are the ones that make the difference for the runners.

Casey Koza 14:35

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, the volunteers certainly do. And you know, Rob and I have seen our fair share of great volunteers over the years. Uh, talk you off the ledge of quitting. Um, maybe explain to you that you can't quite quit here. You have to go actually to the next aid station if you want to quit. So might as well keep going because I'm not getting in my car to leave for another six hours, and you don't want to wait for me, so you might as well walk to the next one. Uh, we've had that as well. So yeah, yeah, the volunteers are great for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And and then uh, you know, this past week, and then you have the power of Uber now, or you can yeah, we we we're working one of the eight stations this weekend, and there's you know, it's a it, you know, uh they're total, you can't drop there. And we had six people drop there this year. I mean, yeah, it was the heat. Um, and they're like, Yeah, we're gonna stop here. We're gonna call an Uber to this pin and they're gonna come pick us up. I was like, All right, okay, yeah. So something new, something new, new way to drop, right? Call up an Uber. It's like you've got no, you know, you can't talk them off the ledge anymore.

Building West Virginia Trail Fest

Casey Koza 15:34

I I I got a feeling there's not uh uh an Uber to come get me in snowshoe. Uh if I had a guess, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

No, you're you're I don't think they're gonna be able to take the uh the the ski lift down and pick you up.

Casey Koza 15:47

Yeah, he's getting five stars if he does for sure. Yeah, if he comes and gets comes and picks me up off the the mountain there. So big fat tip. Yeah, he's getting a good one for sure. So you you have West Virginia Trailfest. Obviously, that's why we brought you on to talk. Are you in a partnership with and I don't know what it would be, but I'm guessing like the West Virginia tourist board for this race, maybe, or is there some kind of partnership? Because I see you post a lot about like the parks and stuff in West Virginia on your Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah, we do. Uh, and part of that is it's yeah, West Virginia is yeah, out if you see yeah, where you guys live, but I mean there's just a massive push on tourism. Uh, we did partner with them last year, not so much this year. Uh, but what we do, um, and you know, we say snowshoe, but yeah, really we're partnered with snowshoe, but we're also partnered with uh Pohontas County. Okay. And they're uh they're they're visit uh their visitors, visitors bureau, they're one of the one of our main pot partners. And uh yeah, so anytime you know they're posting something, and uh, you know, and of course what the state is posting with the with their state parks, uh, and we run through three of their state parks uh on the on the for the 100k and two for the uh 50k. Uh so you know that that partnership for us is very important. Uh, you know, one of our goals, and you know, and sort of straight up, uh Pat and I were we're outsiders, you know, we're not we're not from West Virginia. Uh you know, when uh when I was when when I was originally developing the race, you know, the idea was to start a 200-mile that started in Harrisonburg, West Virginia, and went all the way to Snowshoe. It had it mapped out, it was like 220. This is seven years ago. And I mean, which it was totally awesome. But you know, what you know, it was also really dangerous. You you know, if you've driven you guys have been through West Virginia, it's like you don't have shoulders on the road. There's lots of blind turns, you turn lots of twists and turns in the mountains, and you know, this yeah, bottom line, that was that was someone dying waiting to happen, you know, get you know, getting smacked by a car. Uh so really frightening.

Casey Koza 17:53

That's yeah, I wouldn't, I no, you wouldn't have got me doing that at like 2 a.m. on those twisty back West Virginia roads. That's yeah.

A Resort Weekend Built For Families

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, and not not I'm not saying they're bad drivers, but it just I mean it's just it's just a risk that you know it's the middle of the night, you know, 200 miles, you're on day three, day four, you know, exhausted. Uh but yeah, so we sort of revamped everything and you know, we came up with the with the West Virginia Trail Fest. Uh, you know, and then we we you know, first year was 24. We started putting things together, uh, you know, in 22, early 23, uh, you know, came to fruition in 24. And you know, now we're rolling to into year three with uh four separate distances, uh, you know, 5K, 30, 50, 100. Uh the 50 and the 100 are both point to point, with the 100 starting at midnight. Uh and you know, then we've also got a kids one mile fun.

Casey Koza 18:49

Good. That's always good for the for the kids, the families that come out.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

You know, it's and you know, you'll you'll be seeing some neat things come come about next year, but you know, right now it's it's happening on Memorial Day weekend. Uh, you know, that of course clearly this is the plug for the race, right? Uh so the whole resort is open. Uh, you know, we're on trails, we're not frequently frequented by mountain bikes. Uh, so uh, you know, we're excited for that, but it's also homeowners weekend. So, what does that mean for any runners coming with their families? And then really that's our goal. Community, the greater Pocahontas community, snowshoe, and and a family-oriented event. Uh, you know, in the village, they're gonna have bands on Saturday and Sunday from about 12 to 9. Uh, on on Saturday, when the uh, you know, when the race finishes, it the all races finish at 8. Uh, we've got a Twilight 5K, which is sort of different. And uh at nine o'clock, you've got fireworks uh over over the lake. If you guys remember the Lake Schaefer down at the bottom of Snowshi. So um, yeah, that this is a new twist. And you know, I'm I'm pretty excited about it. I really think it's gonna be a great opportunity. Uh, you know, and the last cool little piece is uh, you know, is if you're if you're if you're gonna bring down if you guys are gonna bring down a crew, uh, when was the last time any of your crews got to take a ski lift down to an aid station? And I'll just leave it at that. And then they can they can belittle you for your decisions on your way as they watch you go up the up the ski slope uh while you're while the while you're there in the lift.

Casey Koza 20:18

Yeah, I that's that that would be a first, uh, for sure. I'm trying to think of any race that would even I'm I've been through a couple ski resorts maybe, but never one or yeah, it's it's is that the last uh aid station that's at the the bottom of the because snowshoe, the village is at the top of the mountain, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah, correct. It's uh it's on top. And there's two, there's uh uh the the fifth, uh the 30k and the 100k will have two ski slopes-ish that you go up, which sort of you know route them so it doesn't, you know, it's not a great straight grind straight up. Uh but to your point, the last, the very last aid station is uh three-quarters of a mile and 700 feet, 50 feet below the finish line. So it's West Virginia.

Casey Koza 21:03

That's Appalachian right there, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

100%. Yeah. I mean, so many West Coast races, they they get all the shine. People forget. I mean, it's awesome in the east, you know, and we're all biased, right? But at the end of the day, my favorite race of all time is still Highland Sky. Now, that's gonna change once I go to West Virginia and run your race, but um West Virginia running is fantastic. Uh Highland Sky running multiple times. It's just the terrain changes all the time, the vegetation vegetation changes all the time. In parts it's super technical, in parts it's super runnable. Uh, it's just fantastic. That's not to take anything away from the big races out west.

Casey Koza 21:42

Uh let's take away from them a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Yeah, I think it's funny they're right. They're always you know getting the shine. That you know, they deserve their fun. But if you haven't run in West Virginia, you have to do it at least once because after that you're gonna be hooked and you're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, and that that's what sucked us into it too. I was like, we went out there for a couple of times as we were scoping trails, and that's to not push it too much, but it's like all three of all the longer distances, like all three of these races have something for everyone. You know, from your, you know, you've got a few miles that are on, you know, the historic Greenbyer River Trail, you know, four or five miles, you get a nice flat road. Uh, you know, you've got you know long climbs, uh rolling descents, uh, you know, you you've got pointless, you know, your PUS, your pointless ups and downs. Uh, and then you just then you go through some gnarly stuff. And get like, and like you said, you go through these little different ecosystems. You know, you you know the base elevation is at 2,000 feet, and you get, you know, and then you start breaking into three, four thousand, you get, you know, you get some furs. Uh, one of the oldest, uh, you know, you get the red spruce firs that grow really close together. And you as soon as you go into those patches, it's a you know, it could be brightest day outside, you know, the sun, not a cloud in the sky. Go drop into those trees and it's like you're it's dusk, and you feel like the sun's going down in about five minutes. It's like, where's my light? Uh yeah, and it's just you've got moss on the ground, it's almost like something out of the uh you know, like Game of Thrones, right? Yeah, so or maybe the maybe the hobbit's probably a better, a better, uh a better analogy.

Casey Koza 23:15

It and it it really is some of the most uh one of my favorite, but I think is one of the most beautiful parts of our country is through that area, like like Rob said. I mean, it it you know, you gotta go there to see it. Was the race always this weekend? I guess I could have done a little bit of research.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Um no worries, man. Um, so we were on Mother's Day weekend for the last two years, and uh it was presenting a little bit of problems, uh yeah, simply just because it's Mother's Day weekend and you know it's you know the goal was to make it a family event. So, like, all right, so who's running? Is it gonna be mom? Is it gonna be dad? You know, who's watching the kids? Uh and in the resort, there just really liked what we were doing with the event. And you know, they said, hey, let's look at uh Memorial Day weekend.

Casey Koza 24:02

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah, which which is their opening weekend for mountain bike season. So I think it's it'll be pretty badass. I mean, there's gonna be a lot of people on the mountain, and I think that's it's gonna give the event a lot of visibility, you know, which is which is nice. But you know, really our focus is to ensure that we we grow the community out there uh and make sure it's a community event, you know, family focused, and and just having something that's gonna challenge people and you know, some in a way that they can share it with their family too.

The Logic Behind A Midnight Start

Casey Koza 24:31

Yeah, there's there's always challenges in West Virginia for sure. Uh and anywhere in the Appalachians when you're running, it's it's gonna be steep and it's gonna be rocky. Uh those two things are are always guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

And the boulder fields are like nothing you've seen anywhere else. You think you're on the moon of some of the boulder fields in West Virginia when you're running. I mean, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, we we've got a couple we've got a couple of those.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah.

Casey Koza 24:54

Um, so one thing that I really like that you did, Alex, and I'd like to kind of get your take on why you did it, obviously. You you're going with the midnight, uh is it 1201 start, 1201 a.m.? Yeah, yeah. So people aren't confused of the day because I yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yep. So it's it's easier to put 1201 instead of midnight, and then people are like, Well, is it the day before the day after? Yeah.

Casey Koza 25:17

Uh there was another race I I read about in Europe that did that. They had started at midnight one year. Hey, we have a 12, you know, now I gotta think of it, 12 p.m. start, a.m. start, 12 a.m. start, and like 15, 20 people didn't show up because they thought it was noon the next day. So they the following year they started it at 12 01 a.m. So as to, you know, hey, this is yeah, yeah. So what what made you go with the midnight start? Because I think I think that's awesome. I wish more races, uh, especially longer races like the 100k and 100 mile races would start Friday night at like somewhere between eight and midnight. I think that's I think that's great. You should have to at least run one night to get that experience. What what made you decide to do that?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

There are a couple different reasons. Uh yeah, part of it is I think, you know, as a lot of us are training, you know, I guess, or a lot of us, you know, or you know, train you know, you're whether you're gonna train for a hundred mile or you know, especially that that rebel is like, all right, you you some it's very sometimes you you do it on your own, but sometimes you have that it's difficult to be able to train, get some night miles in a safe environment. Uh, you know, that was you know, that was you know one of them, but a lot of it had to do with the being able to create a family of events and and being able to have everyone finish within a within a time window, if that makes sense. Uh, you know, sort of like bubbling everyone, you know, so most of our finishers are gonna be finishing between like 2 and 8 p.m. Uh, you know, and our numbers are showing, you know, our bubble yeah, is is like between two and six, is probably when most of our finishers are finishing across all the events. So that that was really the you know one of the main drivers, but also to have something different. Sorry, like you said, like I I ran the few years back the Black Force, the the inaugural Black Force Ultra, um, you know, with the with the Pennsylvania, the Etsy group, which you know, those those go those guys do a rocking job with all their events. Um, and I just love the midnight start. It was just something unique. Yeah, you you have to you have to approach it a very different way than an a.m. start or even like a 6 p.m. start. Um, you know, and you you've got to be able to manage yourself during the day. You can't get too worn out. Um, you know, because then you're you're in effect, you're still pulling an all-nighter.

Casey Koza 27:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you might be able to sleep a little bit, but for sure, it's yeah, you're up at midnight. I mean, that's nothing my body would be ready for. I mean, I you know, I I I go to bed early, you know, so I it it'd be I like it. I like it, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah, I mean, you say that, but I think you'd be surprised. I mean, I've I've run uh like two, three of them now. And you know, it going to bed early, you know, if you can, you know, whether it's in your car or a hotel, you know, if you can spend like two, three hours racking out, you know, before the race, like after after the sun goes down, then wake yourself up and run, it's it's gonna be a weird feeling, but you'll you know, you're running in the middle of the night on fresh legs when your mind's telling you I should be sleeping. But you know, it's uh yeah, there's some advantages to be had if you can manage your time right by doing a midnight start.

Casey Koza 28:24

Yeah, I like it. I like it a lot. Did did you get any complaints with that of people writing? I mean, people complain about everything, so I'm not gonna be shocked, but did did you get any complaints of oh, I would have run this race, but you guys have a midnight start, and I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah, we have not got we have not gotten that yet. So, you know, knock on wood, but no, we we have not had that at all. Um, you know, a lot of you have it's been quite the opposite. It's like, oh, but sort of what you said, it's like, oh, we need more of these.

Casey Koza 28:52

Uh yeah, I I really like it, especially for a family event. You know, mom can start, dad can take the kids and and go to sleep, wake up and go see mom at you know 7 a.m. halfway through the race, maybe.

Course Highlights And Brewery Aid Station

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yeah, yeah. And we it we work it, we work it. We've got, you know, we we hit two fire towers that are you know, the the the area is rich with history, and a lot of our sort of taking a step back, and a lot of our awards that we have sort of focus on the history of the race or the the history of the area between the logging, the mining, uh the trains. Uh, you know, the I think it's the car the country's largest uh radio astronomy observatory is right over there. So it's a unique, a unique space in that like your cell phones just don't work there. So it's you know, logistically, it also that's another challenge. Uh yeah, so it just it gets it gets it gets it gets a little wild.

Casey Koza 29:47

Yeah, yeah. And it's logistically, it's different, you know. It's it's I don't know. I'm I'm I'm actually really excited for this. Uh, you know, to get down there and just to see that part of West Virginia again and in and snowshoe. Um, you know, I I'm I am.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I'm I'm really excited that yeah, we've got we've got I don't know if you guys drink beer. We uh we've got one of the uh one of the aid stations is a local brewery. Um so there's a lot of little unique uh Rob got excited about that. I saw you moving your chair.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

You said an aid station has beer.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Uh yeah, it's it'll be at a brewery. Yeah, the old spruce, yeah. The old spruce.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Same thing, but it's a brewery, there's beer at an aid station. That's the first case. I don't think we've ever had that on the show. Or experience fit in person.

Casey Koza 30:34

No, now I I I'm I'm looking at it. Is it on just the 100k course or is it on the 50k course as well?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

It's on the it's on the it's on the sorry, it's on the 30k and the 100 course. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, with the switch switching to Memorial Day weekend, we had we had to adjust the routes a little bit uh to accommodate the uh well their opening season for the mountain bikers or just a couple routes that we need to change. And you know, with uh Pat and I looking at it, I uh we think the routes are better this year. It just it there's a lot more versatility, uh a lot of a lot more variants, like so where we were going before between the fire roads, the super technical rock scree, you know, uh this the climbing the ski slopes, running through the uh red spruce forests, uh, and then popping out and just you know running running some nice fire roads to break it up a bit.

Casey Koza 31:26

Got it. So so checkpoint nine uh is spruce, correct?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah, yeah. Old spruce brewing. Okay, and it's at the brewery. Yeah, it's on the the the back side of their their parking lot. Uh will be there. So yeah, you could yeah, the eight the 18 the 30k is very soft on the cutoffs.

Casey Koza 31:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Uh and and we did that purposely because there's you know a lot of some people are just you know you know over the years finding outslet as you get older, you still have that endurance, but your wheels just don't turn as they the way they used to.

Casey Koza 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

So you know, we've got and and we've got a quite a few hikers too that come out for the 30k. You know, we give we give it 10 hours. So, you know, I yeah, some I worry a little bit because some uh sounds like Rob might just sort of exit left for an hour or two and go have a couple beers. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Uh it's all about hydrating and proper calorie intake, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Uh I concur. They've they've got a great, they've got a great red or great scotch ale that reminds me a lot of a Smithics.

Casey Koza 32:30

This is this is awesome. Yeah. I I yeah, this is I've never seen that before. I've never even heard of uh an aid station at a brewery, which for this like this crowd could be a little bit dangerous, I imagine. Uh probably definitely want it always closer to the end.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah, but we'll we'll probably figure something out at the uh at the finish line with them.

Casey Koza 32:51

So is that the one that they could ride down the sheriff to?

SPEAKER_00 32:55

No. Bruce, no. That's uh the aid station before that, which is number eight, which is Western Express.

Casey Koza 33:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yeah, the Western Express and then Shavers Lake, which is the very last aid station. You can uh you can take the uh ski lifts down. Of course, you get charged for the ski lift, but you know, there's there's only so much we can do as organizers. Yeah. Um yeah, but that'll that'll be really interesting to see if you can beat your runners back up the uh the uh the last slope to get be see them at the finish line.

Casey Koza 33:27

I I it's a safe bet they can, I assure you. Yeah, yeah, with a beer in hand. I'm I'm sure uh Annie will be thrilled to death with that. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

We know a lot of runners that this is this race is gonna become their premier race. I mean you got the sea lift, you got the amazing resort, the midnight start, the brewery aid station. I mean, it's pretty unique.

Casey Koza 33:51

Yeah, you you got a lot going here, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, no, thank you. I mean, you know, yeah, we've uh you know, as we've talked about it over the last few years, you know, it when you when you get into the village, it sort of like gives you just the way it's set up, it like it gives us a feeling of like the UTMB in Shamani, you know, where you've got the uh the cobblestone road at the finish and at the start, right? And then just every everything is centralized. And I think that's what is unique too, is like you you're there right at the resort. You don't have to, you know, if you choose to stay there, you know, everything is right there, but all the amenities, uh, the finish line is right there, you're gonna have bands. I mean, there's you know, you park your car for the weekend and you're you know, you're squared away. You know, you bring the families, you can go horseback riding, pull out ATVs, uh, you know, it should be open. You can go down to the lake for a swim, it'll probably be cold. Uh yeah, yeah, it's just, I mean, like you're saying, like it's got everything. And it's, you know, it's yeah, we're we're we're excited. You know, we we know it's gonna take off uh this, you know, in the next couple of years.

Casey Koza 34:55

Yeah, I I I can a hundred percent imagine, especially being on Memorial Day weekend and being out in the beautiful area of of Snowshoe, West Virginia, Pocahontas County. Uh, yeah, I would say it will get more popular year after year for sure. I know um when I just kind of proposed it to the the my running friends, I was like, hey, uh found this trail race called West Virginia Trail Race or Trail Fest, excuse me. It's like I might go down and run it. What do you guys think? I got immediately like through response, like that's that looks really cool. That's yeah, I'm I think I'm in. So yeah, you'll see how many people how many people you bring in with you? I so far I think five. Rob's Rob's a little bit of a drive, but it's it is Memorial Day weekend.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So yeah, so it gets tough with the family. It's like that, or you bring them all with you, right?

Casey Koza 35:48

Yeah. Our problem is the family is is the family dog that you know he does go places with us like this. He's been to he's been to his fair share of trail races. So uh but uh a question I have for you, uh Alex. How I'm guessing Snowshoe isn't one of the is isn't owned by the Evil Corp uh ski resort company. So I'm I'm guessing are they independently owned to to be this cool to work with?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

They are owned by Altera.

Casey Koza 36:21

Yeah, so not the other one, the bad one.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

No, yeah, the yeah, no, um, no, no, they're not owned by them. Um they've just they they they're just really cool to work with. Uh yeah, from day one when we were exploring the 200 mile or years ago, they were just like, yeah, this sounds like an awesome idea. Let's let's give it a go. I mean, there was no uh, you know, there were no hurdles. I mean, yeah, you know, with standard, you know, because it's on private property, you know, you got to work through contracts and things like that. Uh, but it but at the at the end of the day, you know, to give them a plug, uh, that whole events team on snowshoe. I mean, they they just rock, they've embraced this from day one. Um, but but just like with any organization, you just you gotta learn how each other work and how you you how you communicate and all that. But you know, it's yeah, they've been awesome from day one. That's awesome. Uh really, yeah, really enthusiastic group of group of people. And it's yeah, it's like they, you know, they they they realize that you know, if you're successful, then they're successful. And you know, but we you know, we we were you know, I think we work together fairly well. Uh good.

Casey Koza 37:27

Yeah, you like to hear that. Um, I know I've you know we've all read some stories of other things that try to take place at ski resorts that have to be.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Yeah, but you know, and and it but to go ahead and you know and pull the plug that it's it's not really a snowshoes that yeah, I call it it's the big shiny thing in Pocahontas County on top of the mountain. Uh, but it really uh yeah, but to make this event go through is that you know we're we're working with the National Park Service, uh, we're working with one or two private landowners, uh, and we're working with uh you know with West Virginia State Parks, uh, but also with Pocahontas County itself uh to make this a success. So there's you know a lot, a lot of a lot of players uh that uh you know that that are you know you know the share our vision. Yeah, you know, and and and and you know, which is you know promoting outdoor the outdoors and tourism. Uh, you know, and there's a lot of other great races too, you know. Uh the Marl Marlinton was just uh I forget what the IMBA title is, like uh mountain bike town. They just uh you know they were nominated for that. You know, they've got amazing mountain biking. If you guys are into mountain biking, uh or even moat, yeah. Um, yeah, they've got a bunch of trails. But yeah, I mean it's just it's a great community and they're all about the outdoors uh and and just and and super welcoming.

Casey Koza 38:47

Yeah, and hats off to the West Virginia Tourism Board. I know you know they're doing everything they can to get people into the state down there. They they don't, you know, they don't bear or hold back any expenses. Um and I know, you know, uh they encourage tech workers to move there. They'll give I I I'm gonna say the wrong number here, Rob, but I think it's like a fifteen thousand dollar bonus for for tech workers to to move to certain counties within West Virginia. So uh, you know, yeah. It was it so they're they're they're doing everything they can. Um and really cool to have back-to-back uh, you know, I guess guests tied to West Virginia here, uh, with with you, Alex and Abby Herring uh last episode. So yeah, Marshall.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah, I saw that. Um I mean I guess you guys know her. Um, yeah, I I I heard I listened to the episode. I was like, all right, yeah, she's from that area. It's like all right, I need to reach out to her, see if she wants to. I don't I don't know where she is in her mileage or training, anything like that. It's like, hey, you want to come out and run the 30k?

Lodging Tips And Where To Stay

Casey Koza 39:46

And yeah, she I think she's always on go. If I had a guess, like I I don't know her, you know, I know her, you know, from the show, and we have some mutual friends down in West Virginia, but I think she's just the type that is always on go. So yeah, wouldn't wouldn't be surprised if if if she accepted you there. Uh obviously she didn't have any plans or anything. Um, what one question I have before I let you go here, Alex. What do you recommend? I got I I got one for you guys. Okay. No, but no, but you first. Um, lodging. What what do we do? Like, what what do you recommend lodging down there? Because it's it's in the middle of nowhere. That's yeah, you know, there's not like uh motel six nearby. Camping, I imagine, is an option.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yeah, you can't yeah, so you can't camp out on the mountain. Uh yeah, I'll do the plug through snow chew. If you get on the website, we've got a code, you can book through them. Uh, there's also a couple private hotels that are up on top of the mountain.

Casey Koza 40:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Uh, if you want to do, I don't know how many people you guys are gonna go with. Um, it is uh the the town of Cass. So my favorite place to stay is the town of Cass. And what and yeah, yeah, we were you know wrapping up here. I won't belabi. I'll shoot you guys the email on that, but that was an old uh it was a it was a company town that that was part of the railroad. Uh, you know, up up on the mountain, they had the uh the paper mills and they ship everything down. Uh but anyway, it was a company town. So what they've done is they've they've refurbished a number of the old houses. And you know, it's you're you're 15 to 20 minutes away from Snowshoe. But that said, yeah, like I I I I could I I like things that are quiet at times. Like I, you know, up there is like it's gonna be awesome up there, don't get me wrong. But if you want to do something like cool and historic, like staying there in Cass, it's just it's super chill. The bet they're all like you said a group of people, so like they're three bed, three to two to three bedrooms, couple bathrooms, uh two stories, has a full kitchen, and it's you you book it through uh Cass Scenic Railroad State Park, and they're like 250 to 300 bucks for six beds. Uh yeah, yeah, uh full amenities, uh, you know, not nothing fancy and sexy like you get on top of the mountain. Uh, but but it just depends what you want. But I'd tell you, we we've we stayed there down there a couple times. Uh absolutely awesome. You know, super quiet. Uh, but you're not going to get any restaurants though. That's all on top of the mountain. You're getting the the one restaurant at the uh at the store. Um yeah, but that's uh and there's also for the people if you guys are you know if you guys are have one of the vans or something like that, there's a new RV park uh in uh slate uh Slaty Fork. Yeah, if you got one of the uh you're yeah, have you got an RV or one of the whatever you call it, the uh camper vans?

Casey Koza 42:36

I call them Winnebago, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Winnebago, yeah, but you're OG, right? The Winnebagos are all Winnebagos.

Casey Koza 42:43

I don't know if I'm an OG, Alex. I'm something. I don't know what, but yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, no, appreciate that. Because I was kind of looking at it. I was like, I mean, I'll sleep in my car, I don't mind, but that's not gonna fly if if Annie comes down with me. That's a no.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

No got you. But yeah, the company housing there is is pretty cool. Um, yeah, but granted, but it's like, all right, at the end of the night, you're gonna have to roll down the mountain.

Casey Koza 43:06

Yeah, yeah. I'll I'll I'll check it out. And I got also gotta get a head count here and see who's who's all coming down there.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

But uh Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show me a line. Let me let me know y'all's numbers. We'll we'll uh we'll we'll we'll get we'll we'll easily figure something out.

Casey Koza 43:20

Yep, I'll send it over to you here in an email so so you have that.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Uh yeah, what was your question for us, Alex? How long have you guys been doing this? So if there's you've been doing how long, yeah, for one, how long have you you guys been uh doing vulture running? What's your longest distance? Or or better, yeah, what's your most memorable race? Memorable bracer experience on the trails?

Casey Koza 43:42

Uh my longest distance is 65 miles. Um my most memorable, yeah, this uh probably from the same race. Uh it was grindstone 100k, pouring down, pouring down rain all day. Was that two years ago? Uh it was two, three years ago, 2000, 2023.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Okay.

Casey Koza 44:02

Coming down off the last climb. Now keep in mind it's been pouring down rain all day. This guy in front of me decides he has to tightrope across the side of a culvert because he doesn't want to get his feet wet, and he tips over and falls in the creek and he's asking for help. And I was like, dude, I can't help you. Like, there's just first off, why were you trying to keep your feet dry? We've been in the mud all day. I don't know what's wrong with you. But you got yourself into this situation. I gotta keep walking because I gotta I'm done. I just want to be in my bed. Uh so that was that was pretty memorable, I I think. Uh Rob, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 44:42

No, no, just visualizing that. Like he's trying to keep his feet wet and he just falls over into the creek.

Casey Koza 44:47

Yeah, he's trying to keep his feet dry and he falls into a creek. Like dude, we've been running in the in the rain for 14 hours. I yeah, I I I I wish I would have I I should look up the finishers and try and get him on the show just to ask him what the hell were you thinking? Uh but yeah, that was that or the face plant guy at Oral Highlands that just came bombing past me, tripped, fell full flat on his face, and then I never saw him again. That was that was another one. That's just what people do out there. I don't know, it's always fun to watching people watching while you're out there. Yeah, it is. Ron, what do you got?

SPEAKER_02 45:22

For me, it was the first time I ran Highland Sky. It was interesting because that was my farthest distance at the time. They say it's a 40-mile area, but it's really two and a half miles. And I'm hurting probably 30 miles into it, and I run into this old lady who's running. I'm just impressed. And she's just covered in blood. Who knows how many times she's fallen. I mean, there's not you can't see skin. Like both arms, both legs, just covered in blood. And she's smiling, just ripping this huge smile. So I started running with her, and she's telling me that when she finishes, she'll be the oldest person to ever finish Highland Sky. Wow. In West Virginia, technical Boulder Field. And then that was amazing. And I finished the race like 10-15 minutes before the cutoff. It was pretty awesome. And she was right behind me, man. It was such a cool experience.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

That must have been really motivating.

Casey Koza 46:17

Oh, it was.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

It was awesome.

Casey Koza 46:19

Rob tells a nice motivational story. I tell a story about it, some dude in a ditch. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

Yeah, it's what happens on the trail, man. People get hurt and you remember it. And come on now.

Casey Koza 46:29

They're they're both motivating in their own different ways. They are. They are. Do not try and tiptoe a culvert after you've been running for 14 hours. It's probably it's pretty sound advice.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

So yeah. Also, don't don't try to avoid getting wet. You know, just go through the river. It's part of the experience, you know. Straight through it.

Must-Have Gear For Remote Runs

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah. I I remember one race I ran in Greece, and it it cracked me up because they uh there are a handful of people. I saw the videos. There's a big river that you had to cross, and people carried uh like big like garbage bags to wrap their feet, and it was just the most bizarre thing I had ever seen. Like people like bad holding bags on their feet like that go up to their knees so their feet wouldn't get wet, and then they took the bags off when they got across the creek, and then they kept going. Uh wow. Uh so my other question you guys are probably laugh at this, sort of turning the tables, is uh of all your your trail running gear and experiences, what is the one thing that you cannot do without? And maybe that's a little easy. Uh in in in in a survival situation on the trail. Survival situation on the trail. It could be anything, the most obscure to whatever, just sort of clearly I've thought about this. I could give you my answer, you might laugh, but I probably I guess so.

Casey Koza 47:53

I, you know, when I go out and run kind of remote things by myself, um, depending on the weather, I'll either have a I either always put a jacket in my pack. Um, if it's going to be anything below like 60 degrees, I always run with a jacket in my pack. In case I fall down, break my leg, you know, I I have respect for the mountains that I that I run. And I also put a one of the Gatorade electrolyte drinks uh in my pack as well. So that that combination right there is something I never go out into uh like wilderness where I'm far away with no cell phone reception without.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

I like it. Very sound. For me, for me, it's gotta be the pocket knife. I always have my pocket knife. I can't think of anything else.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

And then you gotta shove it in your suitcase, right?

Casey Koza 48:46

Yeah, yeah. What about you, Alex? What do you because you you go out and run some remote stuff, I know. Well, what what what do you take with you?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah, and you know what? Uh very very very similar to what you said. Uh I'm I'm hit or miss with the with the with the knife, probably uh 25 to 50 percent. Sometimes it's yeah, it is something you pack your you pack your kit and sometimes you just forget the stupidest things. Uh yeah, two weeks ago we went up the mountain, I forgot my jacket. I was like, what the hell? Uh yeah, and it was it was 40 degrees, you know, climbed 3,000 feet and it went from 60 to 40. I was like the first, yeah, I should have known because I saw 60 at the town. I was like, all right, it's gonna be warm. Uh but sort of the same thing as you, uh, emergency bivy sack. Yeah. Uh yeah, I just yeah, I've got you know, you depending on the time of year, I've usually kept my jacket or don't have my jacket, but the emergency bivies always uh is always with me. Uh and it's yeah, they're they're 25 bucks, they're a little pricey, but they're more they're more reliable than your mile art jacket, and they yeah, weigh two ounces. They, you know, they're you you know you can fit them in the palm of your hand.

Casey Koza 49:47

Yep, yeah, yeah. And it's it's to me, it's more about having respect for the environment I'm in. And anyone that would have to come get me out of one of those places. Uh, you know, it's about being smart. Because I was up in, you know, just not to tell stories, but I was up in New York and it was early May. There was still snow up on the mountain, and I went up and there was this like these two young kids, shorts and a t-shirt, like clearly not prepared. And I told him, I was like, Hey, I'm running down this mountain. You guys are like hiking, you need to get going. Like, you got to turn around and go back because you're not gonna make it before Sunday. Like, I had a headlamp with me, a jacket, extra water. These guys had nothing, they had water bottle, t-shirts, and shorts. It's like it's gonna get cold. I'm running, you guys gotta like turn around and head back. Like, oh, we're fine. I was like, No, you have to go back down the mountain now because you're not going to hike down this thing like before dark. And they did, they listen turned around and went, but yeah, it's it scares you, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Like some because people, it's like you you I don't say they're not thinking, it's not that they're not thinking, but they're out of their element and they don't realize they're out of their element and they don't realize the hazards that exist out there.

Casey Koza 50:57

Um it's six miles back to like what is camp, which for me was probably gonna be about like a little bit less than an hour, but for these two, that's two hours, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Two, three hours, easy.

Casey Koza 51:10

Yeah, so yeah, that's that's why I take what I take with me, and just for the respect for the conditions that I'm in, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Ignorance is bliss for them. Yeah, when you go out in the woods, you get lost, it gets dark, which I'm sure we all have done that at this point. You go out for a run, you're not following the the correct route, turn left instead of right.

Sponsors Perks And How To Reach Alex

Casey Koza 51:31

It's not fun. Nope. Uh Will has got me lost a few times, Rob. So I anytime I'm with Will, I I take my uh headlamp and jacket. Are you bringing him to West Virginia? You know what? I don't know. I don't know if he's gonna he maybe he will. Uh he's running Boston. I'm gonna see him in Boston here next weekend. So possibly. Possibly. We'll see. I I should ask his wife if he can. Uh we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Uh wouldn't it have been proper on this thing to to plug our sponsors?

Casey Koza 52:04

Oh, yeah, go ahead because we'll we'll edit it in. So um, all right. We're about ready to wrap up.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

We'll do the yeah, no, absolutely. No, we've got I just wanted to share with you guys, we've got uh for the people that do listen, uh we we picked up with U Suite hydration packs. Uh I don't know if you're familiar with them, and we're now the uh sponsor for the West Virginia Trail Fest. I coincidentally work for the company. Uh but but they uh but they they ponied up and for everyone signing up for the 100k, you get you get a uh brand new uh VST vest. Right. So we're talking yeah, we're yeah, so you know it retails for just under 200 bucks. Oh and and and race entries 250. Damn. Yeah, so you're gonna up you're gonna upgrade just for that and then and downgrade to the 30k Rob and uh Casey. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Yeah, it's we would never do that. You just taught Casey to run an 100k.

Casey Koza 53:01

Oh man, how do you spell that, Alex? Uh USWE. Sweet, I'll check it out. Yeah, we always like new gear here.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Yeah, and you'll see you'll see Red Bull in a couple of the aid stations. Okay. Uh so that yeah, that'll be interesting, and they'll be at the finish line afterwards. And then uh, you know, we'll have uh Tailwind as one of our supporters, also.

Casey Koza 53:22

Okay, very cool, very cool. I like Tailwind. Um so that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah, so it's gonna be it'll it'll be interesting, and uh yeah, we'll have nice little, hopefully nice little expo up there for you guys.

Casey Koza 53:36

Sweet, looking forward to it. Um, yeah, I I just gotta decide which one I'm gonna run in. It really depends on how my back goes here for the next few weeks. So we'll see. Um, Rob is, I think, still undecided, right, Rob?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

I'm close. I gotta double check the calendar and the boss has to approve. But uh so Alex, we appreciate you uh joining us here. Uh, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Uh that's a good question. Whoever's listening to this podcast, that's where they can find me. They can uh they can they can find me uh athletic equation.com. Uh that that's the the company that we talk about that yeah started this whole thing. Uh and also at uh West Virginia uh WV Trailfest.com. Uh yeah, all the ans all the emails go to me or Pat. That's the easiest way to get a hold of us, short of uh me giving out my telephone number online.