Welcome And Guest Introduction

Casey Koza 0:32

Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Hobby Jogger. I am your co-host, Casey Coza, once again, joined by my co-host, Mr. Rob Myers, wearing his bucket hat all the way from Saint-Edur of A France. Rob, how are you doing today?

Rob Myers 0:48

I'm doing well. Getting closer to uh OCC, so I thought I'd put on the hat.

Casey Koza 0:53

Do you think the hat will help you at OCC?

Rob Myers 0:56

It will not, but I'll look cool doing it.

Casey Koza 0:58

You will look cool doing it. And if you look good, then you generally do play good. Uh time to introduce our guest today. He is the two-time Laurel Highlands champ coming off and also a top 10 at the JFK uh Ultra. He likes really old ultras uh in the United States. He is Mr. Eric Kennedy. Kennedy. And absolutely nobody today, when I told him I was going to do that, knew what that was. Very disappointed in you, Rob. Slightly more disappointed in you, Eric, because it does have your last name in it, but I get it. Probably not your generation of wrestling, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

No, but I do know do remember Tyler Kennedy from the Penguins, so I was halfway there.

Casey Koza 1:43

That's worth something. Yes, Tyler Kennedy, all-time penguins great in my mind. Uh took us to a couple Stanley Cups, one one or two, I believe. I don't know. My history isn't that great. But Eric, thanks for joining us on the show. I certainly appreciate that. Uh, you are the two-time champion of the Laurel Highlands Ultra, one of our favorites here. Uh, we certainly will get into that, but I, you know, I don't know you very well. Um, we do follow each other on Strava, uh, which means we're best friends, Rob, right?

Rob Myers 2:14

It does. We have a lot of best friends out there.

Casey Koza 2:18

I have a couple best friends, I guess. Uh, but yeah, Eric, thanks for thanks a lot for joining us today. And uh, you know, I you're you're a Pittsburgh guy. I'm a Pittsburgh guy, so always good to have a Yinzer on the show.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to talking.

Casey Koza 2:32

Yeah, and uh you're you're we talked a little bit beforehand, but you originally grew up in like the Kiske area, correct?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Uh and yeah, about an about an hour outside the city, northeast. Um now I'm living sort of Murraysville area, maybe 45 minutes east of Pittsburgh.

Casey Koza 2:48

So is is there a reform school in Murraysville? I was always told there was, like a famous reform school. No, I at least not anymore. Okay, all right. Yeah, I was always it's kind of a rumor, Rob. Like if you were a bad kid, they were gonna send you to the Murraysville Reform School. I don't know if it was true. I didn't want to find out. So you were probably told that like 25 years ago, and that's what you're remembering. Yeah, there's one out in Blain Trove where I work.

Early Running Years And Penn

Casey Koza 3:12

I do know that. Okay. So maybe you know, they might have moved it since I was a young end. Uh where did you go to high school at, Eric? Uh Kiske area. Kiske area. Okay, you went to Kiske Area. It did you run track in cross country there?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, so I started track in seventh grade and then cross country, started that in ninth grade, and then ran ran four years there.

Casey Koza 3:36

Okay. Um, so yeah, so you have a running background, then you didn't you know just play other sports and just hop into the ultra scene uh, you know, kind of on a whim, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah, no, I was basketball, soccer, baseball, and swimming up until ninth grade, and then I pretty much quit all four um to go into running.

Casey Koza 3:54

Nice. Yeah, it's good. You gotta concentrate on you know what you're good at. So I certainly understand that. Yeah, that was like I I had to give up wrestling. Uh just didn't didn't didn't fit into the, you know, you you're from you're a southwestern Pennsylvania kid, so you know how wrestling is in our area. So gotta concentrate on what you're good at eventually, and you know, sometimes sports have to go to the wayside.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, wrestling was the number one sport in my school, so that's something I regret not doing, but so you ran a Kiskey, ran cross-country.

Casey Koza 4:22

Did you did you run in college, Eric?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Um, yeah, so I walked on to the team my freshman year. Um wasn't I mean, I was good in high school, not necessarily top runner. So um I guess good enough to walk on to the team um at Penn and then ran one season across country, indoor track, outdoor track, uh dealt with injuries and whole bunch of other stuff, and then that was it. So just one year of a walk on, and then um after that took a decent amount of time off from running um just after my freshman year of college.

Casey Koza 5:02

Got it, got it. Okay, so yeah, didn't really run through college, then just walked on one year. I think you might be our second Penn. Did did Ethan Coza run at Penn Robin? I believe so. He I think he's about your age, Eric. Ethan Coza from Philadelphia. I think he went to Penn. Uh I'll probably hear about it, I'm sure, if he didn't uh here, but yeah, so possibly two to Penn grads. Uh, did you graduate from Penn?

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah. Yeah, graduated during COVID, so oh, nice graduation like what we're doing right now. But yeah, that's awesome.

Casey Koza 5:35

Yeah, so you got the full experience. That's great. Yeah, terrific. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So okay, so so you you've walked on to Penn, get done. What brought you over to the Ultra World? Because that's did you run some marathons first? Did you do the normal half marathon buildup, or did you just go straight into it? Um I mostly just went straight into it.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

I really after my freshman year, I didn't want much to do with running. I was pretty much over it. Um, and then I did run one marathon, I think my junior year of college. My cousin was turning 27 the day of the Disney marathon, and I'm not much of a Disney

Signing Up For A First 100

SPEAKER_02 6:12

person, but she wanted us to go down, so I just signed up and did that one. It was hot, not that fun.

Casey Koza 6:18

But um Yeah, but you get to go through Star Wars Land.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

No, well, that wasn't even there in 2020. So it was uh yeah, it's mostly just time in the swamp. Um, and as a Western PA guy, that's not not what I'm built for. Um, but yeah, that was 2019, and then out of college I took a job. Uh the company I work for now, but it was a rotation program. So I was in Ohio for eight months. Uh oh, we're at uh it's called Orwell, Ohio. Very small village. Uh did you work at Schmuckers? No, it's called uh Kenneth. We have a plant in Orwell.

Rob Myers 7:00

Um that's I think that's near me, right? Right? You're thinking of Orville. That's where Schmuckers. Yeah, Schmuckers is in Orville.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Do you know Portland or okay? Yeah, it's Ashtabula County, just kind of middle of a middle of nowhere. But you got a lot of snow when it yeah. Yeah. Yep. Um, but yeah, it was flat there. So I started I was running a little bit just because I had so much time on my hand. And then my second rotation was in Indiana, um, kind of like 40 minutes from Notre Dame. And it's also pancake flat out there, so I just started running um a little bit more. And my brother was on a similar rotation program out of college. He's three years older. And when he was on his second rotation, he did a hundred miler. Um, so I figured just to copy everything he did, I would sign up for a hundred miler. Um Brent.

Casey Koza 7:52

That was that's your brother Brent, correct?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah, yeah. So two older brothers, uh Ryan's the oldest, and then Brent's the the middle one. I'm the youngest. Got it.

Casey Koza 8:00

Yeah, because I you guys finished first and second the one year at the Laurel Highlands. Got it. Yeah. So you have to follow Big Brother's footsteps and just sign up for a hundred mile race, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah, exactly. So I I did, I don't think you're familiar with the canal corridor. Uh I was I was there when you ran it, actually.

Casey Koza 8:16

Uh oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Uh Caleb Bowen, uh, friend of the show, right, Rob? Yep. Yep. Uh Caleb, I think he's been on once. I text him all the time though. Uh, but he had one of his runners, uh, Abby Herring. She's been on the show a couple times. Uh, but yeah, Caleb, good friend of the show. You got he got caught in a real a real race there for your first hundred mile.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah, I mean, I would I wouldn't even consider that a race for me. They were so far ahead, and I had no idea what I was doing. Um, but it was fun to watch him because it was it was two album backs that year. So I remember watching Caleb. Um, and I think his name was and I follow Jacob or I follow Caleb on Straub. I think Jacob was the person that got second. Um, I remember seeing them in the first turnaround, just looked like they were sprinting. And then uh Jacob was a little bit ahead. Then I saw the second turnaround, Jacob was still ahead, but Caleb looked like he was gaining on them. And then it turns out they were like neck and neck with a mallet ago, which honestly sounded worse than me just hanging out in fifth or sixth place or whatever, because I did not want to sprint at the end of 100 miles. But it was cool to be able to watch that in the two out and backs.

Casey Koza 9:23

Um it was a fun day. It was a fun day. I didn't obviously didn't know you then, but if I would have seen that there was someone from Pittsburgh, I would have obviously been rooting for you.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Not that I wouldn't root for someone from Ohio, of course, Rob, but you know, yeah, and probably had an Indiana address for that race, so you wouldn't have caught it.

Casey Koza 9:41

Yeah, yeah, wouldn't have caught it, wouldn't have cared if you're from Indiana, really. Just you know, but a Yins are you know, I see a Yinzer out there, Rob, I get excited. So so yeah, that's your intro to to alter running. What what do you think after that? Because you know, you you probably came in, I mean you finished fifth in a in a very respectable time, what 1605 or so. Yeah, 1605, which is very respectable, very good for a hundred-mile race. And you see these two that are off the front by what four hours?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yeah, yeah, they were low 12 or mid-12s, so yeah.

Casey Koza 10:13

Yeah, and and did it very, I don't want to say effortlessly for Caleb or or Jacob because they were, you know, I saw them after they were definitely hurting, but you know, it looked easy. Um, did did that motivate you? I guess how did that make you feel? Because I'm in the middle of the pack just hanging out, you know, looking for beers at aid stations. But you know, I feel like when you get up to fifth, like you're hey, I want to compete, but you see that as your first time. Did that really push you to want to do better, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

No, I kind of had in mind after that I was gonna be one and done. Um, I mean, in that race, I was wearing kind of like minimalist Sokna Sokney Canvara shoes that I shouldn't have been wearing. Um, they had awesome sauce gels on the course, which I mean that didn't turn out too well.

Casey Koza 10:57

So I you're probably a little underfueled, huh?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, I didn't I had like the Heed hammer nutritions that didn't take any salt in the whole day. Um, so it was a pretty miserable experience. I mean, I really liked the race. The first honestly 60 miles, I was having the time of my life, but 40 miles is a long time to struggle.

Casey Koza 11:15

Um 40 miles is a long time to struggle.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

So I finished that and then I had some major lower leg injuries after that, and I was like, I think I'm done with this. But then that's about when I moved back to Western PA. Um, and I joined the Greensboro Grun Club um out here, and there's some trail runners in that. And I figured trail running, I have these all these lower leg injuries, maybe I'll try out the trails a little bit, uh, take some take off some of the impact. Um, so that was like yeah, the end of 2022. And then um, I guess it didn't take long because by December, January, I was already signed up for Lower Highlands. Um run learn how to run on trails. But and then from there,

Injuries And The Switch To Trails

SPEAKER_02 12:02

I would say that's when I was like, okay, I really like this. I don't know. Learn more about it and how to suffer less, kind of.

Rob Myers 12:10

It's funny how that happens, that happens to everyone. Like you have a long race, I'll never run again, and then a couple days later you're like looking at races online, picking the next one to sign up for.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah. Yeah, I remember leaving Missing Falls Brewery. Um, shout out Missing Falls, great brewery. Just in more pain than I've ever been in. That was like an hour after the race. That was yeah, that was terrible. But um, yeah, great race though.

Casey Koza 12:37

What I DNF'd it at mile 60 or something. I was like, yeah, screw this, I'm done. Uh it's just it's so flat and it's just the same motion, pounding, pounding, pounding. It's like, whoa. It's a whole different problem set to solve than uh than than trail running for sure. Like it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

It's hard to lock into that pace too, because it's a slower pace than you train at. Um whereas with trail running, there's hills, so you're even if you're you're gonna walk some, you're gonna push harder than you would be in a normal trail run. So power hiking, Eric.

Rob Myers 13:09

Power hiking. Power hiking, yeah. Proper proper terminology on the highway jogger. Come on.

Casey Koza 13:15

Yeah. So so you joined the the the Greensburg Run Club. Uh they do a lot of trail running out there. I I would assume, because I I imagine there's a lot of trails out there in the Greensburg area. It's pretty rural out there, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yeah, mostly uh kind of like the core group that I'm in on the in the run club, they're mostly marathonners. Um, but then there's some if you I mean you go 20 minutes east, you're more in like the little trobe, Late Trobe in Ligoneer area. Um and that's where most of the trail runners are at. So got it.

Casey Koza 13:46

So dude, I didn't know that. Do they have a big like trail running group out in Ligoneer?

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Um there's a there's not necessarily like a club that everybody's in, um, but there's a a bunch of people that do Lurel Highlands every year. Um, and there's two of them are organizing this backyard ultra. They're I think they've done it for like three years now. Um, kind of out between Late Trobe and uh like Lower Highlands. Um it's out like he has his big hunting property, it's like 200 acres. He has a backyard ultra there. Um that's sweet. What's it called?

unknown 14:22

Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Uh it's called Ober, O-H-B-E-R, but it stands for the Orchard Hollow Backyard Endurance Run.

Casey Koza 14:29

Okay. I I think Heath, my buddy Heath Goshorn, Goshorn, uh, and his wife Olivia maybe have run that. I'll have to text him after. Uh I think he was there.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

I've never I I mean I did like 20 miles one year. I've never really gone for it, but I think he's friends with uh Andy Boyd, one of the race organizers. Um that sounds familiar. Uh yeah. Andy kind of knows every trail runner in Western PA. So there's not a run group, but he's kind of like our our leader.

Casey Koza 14:59

He's the czar. He's the trail run czar. Yeah. Uh yeah, I think uh yeah, Heath was definitely out there. Um and Andy sounds familiar. I believe he's uh he's running the Laurel Highlands because Heath is coming out to crew him. I think Heath told me. Um you know how my research is. He that was like three days ago. He texted me, so I don't really remember. Yeah, you can look it up. Yeah, Heath will be there, I have been told from from the horse's mouth. And I'm assuming Olivia will as well, uh, his wife. So also former guest of the show. So yeah, okay. So yeah, you you run with these guys out there. What made you want to run the Laurel Highlands? Do you just because you didn't run the 50k? You just went straight, you know, we're just straight into the big one where we don't need to just go to the 50k, we're just straight for it.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Um, yeah, I guess two things. One, just copying my brother again. He he also, whenever he moved back, he just went straight for the 70. Um, so that's a common theme. And then um I backpacked the whole trail.

Casey Koza 16:06

Oh, sweet.

Why Laurel Highlands Became The Goal

SPEAKER_02 16:08

I think in during COVID or so. And that's when I learned about the race. And I thought that's pretty cool. Um I didn't like we backpacked in three days, and I thought that was really hard. And I was like, I can't believe people actually do this in one day. Like that seems like unfathomable to me. Um so since I had that thought, I was like, well, I guess it's time for me to give it a shot now. Um you know, Canon Metal is only where I work is only 20 minutes from the Route 30 trailhead, which is like mile 46.

Casey Koza 16:40

Oh, Route 30, that's the whoa. Hold on. I'm thinking. Okay, yeah, because Route 31 is by Seven Springs. Route 30 is up on Lake and Near. Okay, yeah. That's uh, yeah, that's like the tough eight station. That's where everyone dies at.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Yeah, either there or the mile 57 one is when people, yeah.

Casey Koza 17:02

A lot of zombies spotted. That's where the dropouts are happening easily, yeah. Yeah, that's uh a friend of the show, uh Will Walmsley. That's where he dropped last year. I tried to get him off the chair, Rob. I did my best. Uh, it was not to happen, but he's re-entered this year, so uh we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Okay, I saw his name on the star list. Yeah.

Casey Koza 17:21

Yeah, yeah. Will Will is Will is back in it this year. So hopefully a little bit better finish for Will this year. But yeah, that's it. So that's a tough part of the trail to run right there. Uh so you get off work and get to head out there on Route 30.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Um, yeah, I haven't really done that. Uh the first year I did that a few times. Um now I guess just other things to make me a little more busier. I haven't been on the trail that much this year. But that's where that first year I was close enough where I could go check out that spot. Um and I like that. I like the north part. I don't like going south from Rob 30, but yeah, going north there.

Casey Koza 17:59

That was that was actually, you know, running the fall classic. That was a pretty nice, pretty a lot more runnable than the southern part of the trail for sure. Like I was uh Abu, uh Gergis, I don't know if you know Abu or not. Um he's one of the Lower Highlands guys, but I remember him telling me, oh, it's much more runnable after this aid station. And it was, not by much, but it was a lot more, it was a lot more fun to run that section of the trail for for sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yeah, a little hilly, but not nearly as rocky.

Casey Koza 18:28

Yeah, yeah, definitely not nearly as rocky um up on the ridge. So you're you're running it the first year. Uh big brother had run it before, so you decided I'm gonna run the 70. You did some research. What kind of research did you do into now running an Ultra? So, you know, we we learned our lesson hopefully at Canal Corridor, where we just had our Cirvana shoes, uh the heed gels or whatever they were given out at the the Canal Corridor. What kind of lessons did we learn? What what new information did we bring to the Laurel Highland 70?

SPEAKER_02 19:23

I didn't learn too much about like nutrition and all that kind of stuff, but more the shoes and pacing. Uh got to get that right. I learned that if you never run the pace you're gonna run a race at, your muscles aren't gonna know how to respond. So for the canal corridor,

Pacing Fixes And First 8 Miles

SPEAKER_02 19:41

I was doing all my runs between six and seven minute mile pace, and then from the start I started at nine-minute pace, and I'd never run a nine-minute mile before. So I was like, I don't know how to do this exactly. So I just tried to get on the course more and actually run the pace that I theoretically thought I could run during the race, and then actually get shoes that are meant for um that distance. And then uh I did bump the fueling up a little bit, but I wasn't too as doubt in as I am. I'm not fully doubting, you know, like anybody ever's fully doubting because you're gonna throw up a little bit here and now, but um, I at least was on the right track.

Casey Koza 20:25

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And and it's very important, like especially a course like that, when you can get some time on it, especially the first eight miles. Uh tough to pace, I know. Uh there's been some other well-documented cases of people that didn't pace themselves maybe as well as they should.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah, no, I definitely didn't pace myself properly, but um a few guys I worked with were like, just get on the trail and as long as you see every mile. That's a good goal. So I luckily worked and lived close enough where I was able to do a few 20-mile runs from each of the eight stations or so and get a back and forth where I could see each part of the course twice.

Casey Koza 21:05

So yeah, for sure. What was your I I know, and and I've said this a number of times on this show, but the first eight miles are definitely the toughest, I think, eight-mile stretch of any course I've run so far, yet, Rob, so far. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah, and I still think it's gonna be tougher than any eight-mile stretch I'll see at OCC. Um, but like because this is coming out right before Lural Highlands, what kind of advice do you have as the winner of the race for the first eight miles?

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Uh first eight miles, I would say I mean, I think the common advice would be don't burn all your matches. Um I think a bigger thing that I've learned is that I think people focus on that big uphill, but you're probably gonna be power hiking, as we like to say on the podcast. Up that thank you for that. Thank you for that. And you're gonna power that hike that no matter what, but I think the two downhills, um, that's where some of the fatigue can build up in your legs. And I think actually just not trying to make up time on the downhills, because you're gonna see some slow splits on the first two climbs, and you're gonna say, let's make up some time on the downhills, but that's actually where you can put some damage in your legs. That for people that are not pros, you don't need to worry about making up a minute on that downhill that's gonna put stuff in your legs that you do not want for the next 60 miles.

Casey Koza 22:32

No, no, definitely not, because those are two very steep downhills uh coming off of the first and second climbs. Yeah, very steep. Uh I'm glad you said that because that's probably what I would have said as well. Like you just can't make up time on those downhills. It's very it's just tough either way. Um, but I do see, I know, you know, having run the 50k a couple times. I've definitely seen a couple people like laying on the trail at mile six, like, oh man, that's it's not good, but you gotta, you know, make it a little bit further. So yeah. Um, but but back to the first year you won it, 2023, correct? Yeah. Yep. Um was it were you compet was it competitive that year, or were you out basically time trialing yourself?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Uh no, that year was competitive. Um I went in that year mentally much better than what I did in 2024. Um, because I kind of had no expectation. I mean, I got sixth or fifth at Canal Corridor. So I was like, it's a similar type of race, maybe go for fifth or sixth, try to start out in 10th to 20th place. Um, so I was probably in 10th place by the

Winning, Rivalry, Pacers, And Heat

SPEAKER_02 23:47

by the main hill, by the big hill at mile eight. Um, and then there was two uh really good guys. One of the the guy that was there's a previous winner, Devin Olsen, he lives in Colorado now. Um he won like in the 20 teens or so. Um so I knew to look up, I was like, this guy's clearly the number one, he's won it twice. Kind of if you pass him, you better go for it. And if you see him, you might be in you might be in trouble. Um so I I think around like my third year or so is whenever I saw him. So I definitely held back, and that that helped out a lot that year.

Casey Koza 24:25

Yeah, because it again it's tough to run the the last half of that race or last 50k of that race as well. Not not easy running for sure. Um Rob, you you which sections have you run, Rob?

Rob Myers 24:37

Uh I mean I've always run the relay every year. So run all three sections of the relay.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Oh, okay. So you've run the relay. We're in the relay this year.

Rob Myers 24:45

Yeah. Yeah. I think this is uh fifth year.

unknown 24:48

I think.

Casey Koza 24:49

Yeah, sounds right. Fifth? Yeah. Yeah, we got two teams coming out this year, Eric. Uh we have two relay teams, the uh something mama's and then Rob's team. So yeah, six of us.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah, you gotta look out for the St. Vincent guys. That's the relay team to beat.

Casey Koza 25:06

Yeah, don't they don't they run it every year, the St. V's?

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Uh yeah, I think they usually have two teams or so of the alumni in St. Vincent.

Casey Koza 25:15

Yeah, last year there was a he was not in good shape when I saw him. He got to mile 11. It was he, I think it was mile 11, maybe it was the next one, 19, but he was hurting. Like he was I don't know, a little too hard, I think, for the for the young college kid or recent graduate. I I don't know. So but okay, so you passed Devin Olson, um, very good runner. You know, I know there's probably a few other good runners uh there that year. Um was that was that the year your brother finished second to you?

SPEAKER_02 25:47

No, he was uh he was 2024, he finished second. He paced me in 2023. Got it.

Casey Koza 25:54

So you're pro-pacer then. I was then. I won't be having a pacer this year. Yes. See Rob? I he probably got that from listening to our show, I think. He's anti-pacer. Yeah, I'm sure. I started the movement.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Yeah, no, honestly, I I never even really thought of it until after I won. Then I was like, well, now I gotta consider later stage race dynamics. Yeah. I mean, I don't I enjoyed spending the last 24 miles, but then I was going pretty slow then, so I don't regret having a pacer then, but yeah, this year I I won't.

Casey Koza 26:30

Nice, nice. That makes me happy, Rob. That makes me smile. I don't I'm I ah, yeah. We won't talk about the pacer. You know, I know it's a controversial, somehow controversial topic, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Anything that can be controversial, there's not enough controversial things, so we've got to look for small things in the trail running community to to debate.

Casey Koza 26:49

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm I'm here texting Dan, uh the RD of Laurel Highlands. Ban the pacer, Dan. I think he blocked my number, maybe. Dan did. I don't know.

Rob Myers 26:57

Casey has never said that a pacer was cheating ever on the show.

Casey Koza 27:01

Never happened. Never, never happened. Never, not once. Uh yeah, good to see you're going without the pacer, Eric. I like that. Um, we'll go to the 2024 year that you won, beat your brother. Probably had a little bit more expectations that year, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah. Yeah, and having your brother in the race is gonna Little Sibling rivalry, never hurt anything.

Casey Koza 27:23

I I feel like never heard anyone's competitive competitive edge. So uh it you lowered your time, your mark a little bit. No, I was I was 10 minutes slower. Oh, 10 minutes slower. Okay, I flipped it. So again, Rob, you know, the research we do on this show, it's gotta they were close, yeah. Close enough. Uh, but and also out there, temperature matters a lot. Like I know last year it was brutally hot, uh, humid, uh pretty nasty. Uh probably why Deanna Doan of Florida won, uh, because it was probably very similar to home for her running down in Florida. So yeah, it does get nasty hot. Probably gonna be hot this year since it was like 90 there last year or last week. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, I did I paced last year, and last year was way worse weather than uh the two years that I had run it. I was happy to be pacing that year.

Casey Koza 28:14

Yeah, yeah. And Will will be really happy when you say that. That'll make him feel better about his DNF.

Rob Myers 28:19

Yeah, last year was like running in soup. I mean, it was awful.

Casey Koza 28:23

Yeah, I I camped out the night before up at that Route 30, Eric. Okay, yeah. And uh I was dying. Like I was, I mean, I was in my air conditioned car. That was cool. But I was dying outside. Like it was it was pretty muggy, hot, and and brutal out there. So yeah, that was that's the worst weather of the years I've been there, I thought. Um, and it's gonna rain, it's gonna be muggy. But uh do you have any cooling techniques that you use at Laurel Highlands? Do you because you probably weren't using the ice bandana, that only somehow recently gained popularity.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Yeah, I've never used a cooling technique on any run in my life, to be honest. The because I've d since 2020 2024, I was kind of still figuring stuff out. And then the two races since then were JFK, which is snow in the ground. Um I typically like to travel pretty light, and I know the the key out west is staying wet. I always hear that on the podcast, which I mean I don't know, it's hard to say out east because you're wet from half a mile in. I mean there's not gonna but so I I don't think I'm gonna do an ice bandana or anything. I might have uh my fiance put some ice into my like the back of my vest. Uh I wear like a Solomon running vest, so kind of get annoyed with stuff like around my chest. So the vest is enough for me. I usually don't train with a vest, so having that annoying enough. Ice bandana would be maybe too much, but we'll see. If it ends up being like 90 to 100, then I think you make a race day call and say let's let's try it out.

Casey Koza 30:02

Yeah, we'll go, we'll go for it. Also, you know, lots of streams to lay down out there. I have laid down on a stream or two out there uh a time, you know, it gets a little bit hot. I I went out there and ran once for the before the grindstone 100k. It was like a 90 degree day. I just but I think a mile six before you go up the yeah, I just laid down in the stream. I was like, yeah, this feels good. We'll lay down in this nice cold stream here.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

So yeah, I was trying to think. I don't think from route third to the finish there's any streams, but I I don't know, I'm not as familiar as I used to be with the course.

Casey Koza 30:36

Yeah, I don't think there is any streams that maybe one just after route 30, but yeah, I I think you're right. I don't think there is like there is at the the southern end of the trail. Um so you took a year off from running it, you ran the JFK twice. Uh you finished the top 10 at JFK, which is awesome. Congratulations. That's thank you. You know, that's that's pretty sweet because that's a tough, tough race. You get some a lot of really good runners there. Um I I'd like to ask you a little bit about that, because it's a different kind of race, I guess, because you go from the Appalachian Trail, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but about the first 25 miles on the Appalachian Trail, and then about 25-ish miles on like a towpath-ish.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah, it's it's you get on the towpath

JFK 50 And East Coast Racing

SPEAKER_02 31:21

at mile 15, but the first five are either road or fire road. So it's really like 10 miles of uh Appalachian Trail, but first 15 of hilly slash rocky, and then uh mile. You do a marathon on the tow path, and then the last nine miles on like a rolling country road.

Casey Koza 31:41

Oh, okay. Yeah, got it. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You finished top 10 there. Definitely a hybrid type race. Um, what was your experience like out there? Because I I really haven't, I don't think we've ever brought this race up, have we, Rob? The JFK? No, first time. Yeah, I think you're not the first person that's run it on the show. This is the first person I've asked about it. Um, but but what's that atmosphere like at the JFK? Because it's another old, just old school ultra, much like Laurel Highlands. Uh, you know, pretty revered and and well regarded.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, I mean, I really enjoyed both years doing it. Um, the Star Line is very different than Laurel Highlands. Um, I mean, there's they kind of have grandfathered in their permitting things or whatever, so they can have 1,200 people on the star line. And I think the first year I did it, you run up a basically like I think a 1200 foot climb over the first five miles. I was I thought that I was pushing as hard as I did all day. And I was in the first year, I think I was in like 30th place. And I mean, it was just it was pretty pretty crazy to see. And Laurel Howens, I mean, 200 people feels more like a backyard race. And I mean, JFK compared to like I've never done like a big marathon. I'm sure if you did a big marathon, you would see JFK and think that's a backyard race. Yeah, yeah. But I think the JFK kind of tends more towards the the marathon and just the pace that they go out from the beginning. Um, and then the Appalachian Trail part, I think, is underrated how fast the kind of pros are going, like the top five or so people. I mean, they're they get on the toe path and they're running 540 miles, but they're putting a bigger gap on me than on the AT, and I feel like I'm running harder on the AT. So I think their equivalent pace on the ATs, they're starting out from like 530 miles. Um it's pretty cool to see. Uh just it can be discouraging if you think about it too much, but you just run your own race. And it's also way more technical than I think people because they they run so fast that you think uh must not be that technical, but it's more technical than Laurel Highlands, just for a shorter section, only 10 miles of really like boulder-sized rocks. Um but yeah, it's it's a really cool race. And I'm there was rumor that they were gonna lose the course uh and switch the course, but they uh they were able to keep it for the future, so I was glad to hear that.

Casey Koza 34:09

Oh, nice. Yeah, would hate to lose that race. Rob, have you ever thought about running JFK?

Rob Myers 34:14

I've not. No, it's one race I really never looked into. I mean heard other people talk about it. You know, the race itself's been brought up on the podcast, but we really didn't go into great detail. I'm not sure why.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

It's kind of a Yeah, I wish there was more East Coast race that pros showed up to. Like the one year there was a golden ticket at Grindstone, that was cool. But yeah, the pros really aren't gonna come to the East Coast unless it's for JFK, even then it's still not like the West Coast, but it's it was the first time I really was in a race with professionals like that. So I thought that was cool to see.

Rob Myers 34:45

You're 100% right. Yeah, it's the whole West Coast, East Coast thing.

Casey Koza 34:49

Uh yeah, that's another, we don't want to go down that course with me either, because I yeah. We did have it one year at Grindstone. I feel like they announced it pretty late to where like people that I thought would run Grindstone were like, Well, I already signed up for my, you know, we'll say like a race like Laurel Highlands where I like the race director. I'm not gonna just tell the race director, hey, I gotta withdraw so I can go run this UTMB race, the Walmart of of ultra running.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

So you just said that but Caleb Bowen got a ticket there.

Casey Koza 35:16

So yes, yes, he did, um, which was awesome. It was held in a hurricane, which sucked. Um, and it was actually it was a it was a well-run race, I thought. Uh and Rob, you ran the 50k the following year. I mean, it's other than the food situation afterwards, which was horrendous and inexcusable. I I would like to see a golden ticket race come to the east coast. I know, you know, obviously it couldn't happen at Laurel Highlands timing and entry, but would like to see like a JFK or grindstone even, but you know, one of the East Coast races get get a golden ticket because there is a lot of great, very good East Coast runners, right, Eric.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I don't think, but maybe that's just I don't want to get my hopes up of being able to see one on the east coast, but I don't know. It seems like they just tend more and more to the West Coast and now international.

Casey Koza 36:07

So Pavelina probably doesn't need one. That's my opinion, probably shared by a lot of people. But yeah, I know. I wish the East Coast had one. Uh maybe someday it will come back to the East Coast. I think maybe the race director is a little bit short-sighted in that, you know, hate to ignore or you're you know, ignoring the population centers of like New York, Charlotte, Boston, Pittsburgh, all within a couple hour drive. You know, what do I know, right, Rob? Right. Just need to figure it out. Yeah. Not my job. But anyway, back to the Laurel Highlands. You're running it this year. What brought you back to the Laurel Highlands, Eric? Uh, what made you decide to come back this year? Uh, was it maybe sitting on the sideline last year just pacing that you know, a little tussle up front I'd like to be involved in?

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah, I think uh after I did it twice, I was pretty happy. I was didn't think I would necessarily go back. Um, but then I paced, I was supposed to pace Andy Boyd, the guy I mentioned

Coming Back, Future Plans, And Wrap

SPEAKER_02 37:05

earlier. Um, he was having some hip hip issues, so I switched to uh I was pacing Kaylee Frederick, who got second.

Casey Koza 37:13

Yeah, I I briefly met her once. I I saw her running out there one time, very talented runner, so yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah. So I was at the aid station, I saw uh Blake and Jesse kind of doing back and forth, and I thought that was pretty cool to see. Um, and then I've had a bunch of injuries the past few years, and I I was healthy last June, and I was like, well, if I'm ever healthy, I think it just makes sense to run the race that's local to you. It's a golden ticket race. I'm not a lottery race, so ultimately want to get the lottery tickets up. Um so I would probably if I was gonna do 100k or longer, I would I think make sense to do Lorel Highlands. It's close to work. My family all lives in Western PA, so it just seems like the the right race to do. But yeah, mostly the the injuries and then life getting busy, getting married later this year. Uh so you never know how many chances you are gonna get to run it again. Um so I figure if I'm my training hasn't been perfect, but I'm able to run, so might as well give it a shot.

Rob Myers 38:18

100%. You're young, and that course record has been standing since 1998. So yeah, older than me. Strife for that.

Casey Koza 38:27

Older than me. Do you do you think now I know um I believe I looked at the entries. I know uh friend of the show, Jeremy Pope, scheduled to run, Blake coming back, uh, Jesse Irwin, uh very accomplished, uh, just took second place at at Heiner, owns the gate to eight fastest known time, I believe, out and back, which is uh was a pretty remarkable time. You just ran the 22 miles out there, out and back yourself, Eric. But do you think that the course record could be in danger this year if the weather is okay?

SPEAKER_02 39:02

I don't want to say no. It's a safe thing to do. I mean, yeah, it's a safe answer. Because then if if it actually happens, then you won't even be like, oh yeah, I knew that was gonna happen. But um, I think after 2023, I thought it was within reach. And the year before me, some uh Sam Kirk ran 1051. And I thought 2023 I did not fuel that well, but then I looking back, I ran on some of the adrenaline that I think I didn't need to fuel. Um and then in 2024 is when I realized how how quick that course record is. Um I was fifty-four minutes. Yeah, 54 minutes behind in 2024. And I didn't execute perfectly. I was in better shape then than I am this year. I think I can execute a lot better, but 54 minutes. How many minutes behind? I was fifty-four minutes behind in 2024. Okay. And that's when I realized Yeah, I don't know. I'm not I wouldn't say no. I I don't know this year. If I I mean if someone said you have to put money online, I would bet no. But the under is is the bet, Rob. The under is I'm not saying never. I mean if it's a tough time of year to get some of the pros to want to do a race on the East Coast. I wouldn't say never, but for this year, I would say it's seems tough.

Casey Koza 40:27

Yeah, the pros are no fun.

Rob Myers 40:29

Uh you never know, man. You get enough sleep, the weather's perfect, you wake up, just feeling good. Should happen.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Yeah, no, I think I'm sure the way Ultra's going now, people are gonna put themselves in position to break it.

Casey Koza 40:44

But whether whether it sticks, we'll see. Yeah, it stood for a long time. I was I was thinking this year, you Jesse and Blake, uh, Jeremy in the mix. Uh like there's a good group, and I know people tend to go faster when in a group, and you know, maybe maybe it could get a little closer this year, but that is a hell of a record. I would like the story on that record, actually, if anyone knows it, um Dan probably does, uh, of how it was set, um, that it stood this long because it's got to be the oldest standing ultra record around in the US, at least for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Um yeah, I mean the way Jesse ran it, Heiner and then Blake. I followed Blake on Strava. I don't know Jesse as well, but I talked to Blake last year. Um he lives in California now, so I don't see him that often. But he just ran the quicksilver 100k, which is 62 miles and more elevation than Laurel. And he ran fast there, so I think it'll be a good group.

Casey Koza 41:42

Yeah. It's not Laurel Highlands, though. It's not the rocky super 99% humidity with an 80-degree dew point, whatever ridiculous thing it's going to be that day. Uh yeah, it'll be it'll be fun. Well, I guess I won't get to watch. I might hear about it a little bit, but uh I'll be out there, Rob. So um hopefully someone will give me an update. I don't know. We'll see. How are you feeling for it? Yeah, you know, hurting a little bit, Eric. Uh, you know, went out there, had a good time out there uh in Ohio Pile last weekend, but uh the back's a little bit angry. Uh running down in West Virginia this weekend. So we'll see. Uh we'll see. I I drew number 70, so I feel like that means something. Uh oh, that's that's pretty lucky. I drew number 100. Oh. Number 100. Yep. That's shouldn't it be like number one? Because you're like the returning.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Well, uh yeah, Blake would be if they did it like that.

Casey Koza 42:42

Oh, yeah, I guess. But it just I think it's ordered how you signed up. Oh. That would make more sense.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

I gotta when Dan unblocks me, Rob, I'll uh if you signed up on the first day and were the last one, then you probably were number 70.

Casey Koza 42:54

Yeah. I was 70.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

So yeah.

Casey Koza 42:56

Yeah, I did I I don't, yeah, I think I signed up the first day. I can't remember. It's been so long ago. And uh yeah, but no, looking forward to it, Eric. Um, I'm I'm hoping you know everything breaks your way. You are the local kid. Jesse, he's from West Virginia, so he's not local. Um, you know, but I I root for him and and hope to see him. All of you guys.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

He's from uh I don't know him, but Andy's good friends with him. He's from Connellsville, so he's a he's a Yenzer. Oh, okay. He is a Yenzer, okay. And Blake is Blake is from Johnstown too.

Casey Koza 43:27

Oh, okay. Home of the home of the flood. I wonder if we'll get any other Johnstown locals entered this year. We'll we'll have to wait and see. Um what else do you have on uh the horizon going forward, Eric? What else uh like do you have anything in the fall that you're thinking about running?

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Uh no, most likely won't do anything at all. I'm getting married in the fall. Um congratulations. Thank you. But that's um I'm gonna have I'm gonna try to put in a lot of time into one exam I'm taking outside the MBA and then my MBA for the next for the second half of the year. Um if I did do a fall race, it would be JFK, but probably won't happen four weeks after the wedding in honeymoon.

Casey Koza 44:13

Yeah, it's probably I I'd advise you take this fall off. Uh yeah, just chill this fall and maybe come back.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

I think maybe uh well I actually did want to do canal corridor, but I'm gonna we're going to a different wedding that day. But yeah, maybe a marathon. I've never done a marathon, so I think it's a PR that I can get without having to train too hard because I don't really have a PR.

Casey Koza 44:41

So Well, yeah, that's that's good. Uh yeah, I would definitely recommend maybe take the fall off, right? Rob, you're you're a married guy.

Rob Myers 44:48

Uh yeah, you want to take at least three months off. The attentive Be in the house, be available. Yeah, be available.

Casey Koza 44:57

It's yeah, generally a good I would I would agree with that advice, uh, Eric. So yeah, I'll take any advice there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it off. Yeah, run the marathon, get the PR on there, and yeah, just uh yeah, stick around the house a little bit and be seen and be a male. She's my she's my crew for every race too. So yeah, you're off in the fall, my friend. You're off in the fall. Come back strong next spring. Uh we'll see what you have maybe the following fall, but uh no, I you know, happy for you. Congratulations. Uh thank you. Yeah, look at looking forward to to seeing uh the results there from you know the Laurel Highlands 70 mile race. I know, Rob, we talk about it a ton in this this show. Um it is our our favorite. Dan does a great job. Uh, race director, him and his crew out there do it do a tremendous job of running it. And uh I'd like to get your opinion on this, Eric. They they still keep it true to what the Laurel Highlands Ultra is. Um I don't think you'll see a satisfy merch 10 out there. I don't think so. No. Might. You might. I don't know. I don't know, Rob. You might. What do you think? No, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, probably not anytime soon. Yeah, yeah, probably not gonna happen anytime soon. Um, but yeah, it it's it's one of our favorites, Eric. Uh Route.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great race. It's perfectly run. I've never had any any hiccups. Uh yeah.

Casey Koza 46:25

Yeah, yeah, it is. And um my favorite, uh the the Route 38 station, the Trail Sisters do a tremendous triage job on all the zombies that come through there in the middle of the heat in the middle of the day. Uh check that one out. Um, if you get it, if you're out there, um, you know, say hello to those those fine volunteers out there, uh, because volunteers are you know the grassroots of what makes ultra running great. So um yeah, looking forward to it, Eric. I appreciate your time coming on. I know you're busy with college. Busy probably. I'm I'm assuming you don't have much to do with the planning of the wedding, but uh, you know, you're at least it's all taken care of. Yeah. You're at least okaying uh the suggestions, I guess. Uh maybe you can too. Um, but yeah, congratulations on that. I look forward to seeing you out there uh at the Laurel Highlands uh ultra this year.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Yeah, looking forward to seeing you too. Best of luck. Yeah, I'll need it.

Rob Myers 47:24

Eric, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_02 47:26

I don't have social media, so Strava. Um I guess LinkedIn I have that technically. That's the closest thing I have to social media, but I don't really go on there, but so mostly Strava, I'd say.