Introduction: Effective School Discipline and Classroom Management

Welcome to our exciting new series focused on School Discipline and Classroom Management. In this four-part exploration, we aim to empower educators with effective strategies and insights from experienced professionals in the field. Each session will feature guest speakers who have successfully navigated the challenges of discipline and management, offering proven methods that can be adapted to various educational environments.

For more information about the the topics discussed,
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org

Thanks for listening. If you would like to share your thoughts or topic ideas, or would like to be a guest, you can find Educational Relevance on Facebook, YouTube or contact us at oliviaw1201@educationalrelevance.org

Transcript

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Educational Relevance, a platform for experienced educators to share their proven successful strategies to educate today's students. I am Bryan Wright. I'm an adjunct professor. At Concordia University in, Wisconsin, With me today is Mark Macbeth proven author. excellent administrator in his own right.

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 0:23

How are you doing?

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 0:24

All right. today, we're going to start a four part series, a new series on, school discipline and classroom management. the work that professionals are doing in public and private education is exceptional working with our kids these days. We commend and acknowledge the fact that they are doing a fine job and working very hard at their craft. What we want to do is make sure we enhance What they're doing in those classrooms and in those schools, Mark. And that's what we want to do. So we want to make sure we can assist in that endeavor. Mark, what do you think?

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 0:57

Yeah, absolutely. You know, educating kids today is harder than it's ever been. So we never want to take away from the hard work that people are doing. But, the idea is always to enhance and change practices to, increase student learning.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 1:11

Okay. So, and here's how we're going to do it in this four part process The 1st one going to be, somebody from the administrative background is going to talk about how they incorporated this school discipline and classroom management from an administrative perspective. We're going to have a trainer, somebody who's done restorative practices, and she's going to come on and join us and she's going to talk about how we, you can train others to meet these successes in these schools. A third we want to talk about is getting a teacher who's done this as far as classroom management and the things they did to make sure they kept academics at a high while using a classroom discipline as low. And then the last one we're going to do is get someone from central office and talk about, give us an overall perspective with central office is wanting to do and how they wanted to get it done so they can make sure that, the test scores and data remains a high in their schools, in their district, but at the same time, establishing methods and ideologies. How every kid can be treated with respect and

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 2:10

dignity Sounds perfect.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 2:11

Mark, So Mark, let me start with this first question. Why is code, so important when we talk about establishing, classroom management. As well as, an administrator, setting up,

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 2:20

Yeah, so let's reflect back that we just did a multi series on the four C's when we talk about classroom management, when we talk about discipline in the school, we're talking about climate. Code is essential, for, everybody in the building to understand the direction for which we're going. So student learning first, rigor, relevance, relationships, generates results. Yours hits right at home here. Respect law, respect is earned, not just given, but common courtesy is demanded from everyone. I mean, that just, hits home with exactly what you're talking about. If you have that respect for everyone, that common courtesy, we're gonna have student learning as an outcome. And so code has to be a direction center. And if that code's missing discipline, classroom management, the procedures and processes that administrators or teachers create just don't exist.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 3:23

Let me join in on that, Mark, when you're talking about code, we always make sure we talk about establishing a code, something that's consistent, something that teachers know that you're going to Follow every single day. I always say, why does somebody want to follow you if they don't know where you're coming from? And you don't have a policy that, educational philosophy, as it were in place that didn't know you going

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 3:45

yeah,

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 3:46

Every single day. And once you establish that, that code, that's an educational philosophy. People know what you're going to do, how you're going to do it. And that's the same thing. in the classroom. Kids will follow teachers. They think this teacher's about this and this teacher cares about what this is. And once you establish that with the students and students feel comfortable with that, they will adhere to what you're talking about. And you mentioned my respect law, respect is earned, not just given the common courteous demanded. One of the things I talk about in the school when I talk to students, I will tell students, I will never disrespect you. And I say that to every single kid I talked to when I go talk to classes, but they've asked me to talk to classes. I said, I will never disrespect you, but I'm not going

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 4:28

right

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 4:30

me. We're going to talk about, we instead of me, And that was the conversation Mark I had yesterday in a classroom of fifth graders. So we're not talking about high school seniors. We're talking about fifth graders and they agreed with it and they understood it. I said, is there any question? No, no. Do you want to say I'm talking about? Yes, we do. And that's bringing to my last point. We want to recognize kids and honor student intelligence, our students are highly intelligent and highly gifted. All we got to do is make sure we give

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 4:58

Yeah

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 4:59

to show us how they're doing it. And students have so many different gifts, Mark, in so many different ways. And that's why when I spoke to them not only was it a great conversation, but it was also a give and take. Give them an opportunity for feedback. What do you think? you understand what we were talking about? Did you have any questions? And giving them an opportunity to say, hey, yeah, this is something I did not know. Or this is something I didn't understand. Can you help explain it? And then that became a conversation that was very positive. And the teacher who was there was supportive of that conversation. And I asked teacher, can you help me out with this? And can you continue the conversation we're having? And the teacher did that. So it became a we thing, not a me thing, but a we thing. And that's the whole idea about,

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 5:39

Yeah,

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 5:40

getting everybody

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 5:40

in reality, kids in, even first grade know when things are appropriate and when they're not. They know when there's effective classroom management and when there's not. They know when there's expectations and when there's not. They know what the expectation is. Now, whether they live that is two different things, because it's whether it is reinforced with routines and daily practices that allow it to come out.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 6:14

Mark, You know, students are the first ones to recognize bad, behavior. And they'll go tell the teacher, they'll go tell someone.

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 6:21

Yeah.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 6:22

acting bad in class. they'll tell you. know, Marzano years ago said the number one factor governing student learning. It's classroom management. And so when I first heard that, I'm like, you know, that's absolutely correct. I think, you start getting successes in the classroom, then everybody benefits. The students benefit, data gets improved. Now everybody likes to read about data and hear about successful data strategies, but then all of a sudden the school climate is improved. And that's what we're talking about right now. And that's why the 4C plan is so important because we're discussing enhancing school climate at the same time, reducing, Stress levels of teachers as they're continuing and they're successful venture trying to get kids to learn in that classroom. So Mark, we also want to make sure we talk about what happens Mark when Teachers do not organize

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 7:15

the kids will find their own way to organize however they want to do. And then the teacher becomes responsive to that behavior. And then that's where classroom struggles come in. So it's, always Leadership practices shape the practices of followers. A teacher in the classroom is a leader. It shapes the practices of the followers. At the same time, followers reaction or practice themselves shape leadership practice. And in doing so, if we allow the followers to shape us in a way that is nonproductive then the teacher or that leader will respond in that way. And their practices start to shape around that. So the leader has to have that code that that previous practice of saying, this is how it's done. And then when the kids react to that. To that ongoing practice and expectation is when success happens.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 8:14

And you said something I thought is real important, You said, we're not talking negative, but we are talking about non productive. When a teacher's non productive, you can take a look at their data. What kids are learning, are the kids improving? Is AYP, Average Yearly Progress, something that they're or the standards they want to reach? These things all come out and it's not that we're trying to be negative to a teacher. What we're trying to do right now is enhance their instruction, what they're doing in class so we can make sure they reach levels of success with their students the same time, not getting a situation where they deal with so much discipline

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 8:50

Yeah. And I think it's also essential that we have the conversation around, even though we're talking about classroom management and discipline type of issues, we're really talking about instruction and learning and We had a, we had a guest on once Jerry Valentine. he shared some data with us that showed that when students are disengaged from learning or in a stagnant receiving type of learning atmosphere, that student classroom discipline Is accelerated. It's higher. The higher level thinking that kids are doing inside the classroom, the more problem solving they're doing. The more higher engagement situations, classroom management was down. And so instruction has an essential role in thinking about classroom management.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 9:42

Oh, absolutely. So let's take this on a broader scale. Let's talk about school discipline and how important it is, Mark that we mentioned code that the principal needs to develop a code so that the teachers can see what they're doing and following what's going on. But also, Mark, when we're talking about incorporating, and this is something I think it's important, incorporating the we aspect so that teachers know what's being said, but so secretaries. So does educational assistance. So does everybody in the school who works there have the same belief system saying this is what we're about. This is what we're going to do so that people hear it all the time. If you don't mind me saying this, Mark, I remember I was at a school and I talked about where the best school in the state of Wisconsin. I think I told you that we're, we're saying it every day. So I decided not to say a couple of days. I'm all right. people are getting tired of it. And they came to me. Why are we not the best school, Wisconsin anymore? sorry about that. Sorry. We're going to keep and cause people believe that and people started hearing it and they said, Hey, this is what we're about. so that's why Mark, I'm going to ask you to expound about the laser conversations you had, Mark, when you talked

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 10:52

yeah.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 10:52

conversation with teachers. How did you get that idea of being

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 10:57

So

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 10:57

you came from?

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 10:57

essential is when, when we're establishing our turnarounds or when we're working on enhancing our present practices, we, we have to continue to really know what's going on, what's happening now. when we have reflective conversations, And we think deeper ourselves, just like we're trying to get kids to do in the classroom. We can get people to acknowledge their practices. So laser conversations I really like it. You know, if I go into a classroom and I'm in there for one or two minutes, my, the longest conversation I should have with that teacher is one to two minutes, or three minutes about what I saw in that classroom. But what you really want them to do is think deeper about their own practice. Not about, hey, why did Jimmy react this way? More of, how did you re engage Jimmy? When you were over there talking to him, I couldn't hear, you know, what was it that you did that really put Jimmy back on on track? What was the engagement that you did? What was the deeper thought that you gave Jimmy? What was the result of this type of interaction that happened? I saw you correct the entire classroom. How did it go after I left? How did you feel that your situation went? We're thinking we're getting them to think deeper and deeper about their practices. Once people know what they do, because even the greatest teachers sometimes don't know why they do what they do. They just do it. And we want them to think deeper about it. And that's where laser conversations come in. I have these poignant side by side. I never face a teacher face on when I'm having these conversations. I'm always shoulder to shoulder. setting in a chair or standing against the wall with them during passing time or whatever it is. And I'm having these very, very short conversations about deeper level thinking. And we as a school, we have to know what practices are taking place from our administrator perspective, what we're doing, what teachers are doing You can't enhance anything if you don't know what already exists and what the results are associated with.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 13:09

I appreciate you talking about laser conversation because we're talking about, we're talking about being positive. We're talking about being supportive. We're not talking about to be negative and trying to come down on anyone we're talking about how can we enhance your instruction and help you out in your classroom? And the one thing with this whole conversation we're having right now, we're not talking about what you're teaching. All right. That's the one thing we did not mention what you're

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 13:32

It's later.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 13:33

We think it's going to be important to students, but what we're talking about, what can we assist in getting you to a point where you feel comfortable that what you're teaching is going to be beneficial to that student. that's what we're talking about. And that's why when we're discussing it, it's a, we go thing. It's a, we thing, not a he thing or a she thing. It's a, we thing we're talking. And that's why the educational code becomes so important because now you have something that's your basis. That's your thing. You hang your hat on. And then you say, this is what, this is what I'm about. And you can join me in supporting me in this regard. This can be what we're about. And if they want to make some adjustments in that, they do every

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 14:11

Yeah,

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 14:12

a mission statement. Every school I have is that no has a mission statement. Then when I go into a school, I asked some a teacher what's the mission statement. They're looking at me like, I don't know what I'm talking about. I know we got one, but, and see, that's what we're talking about. We want to make sure it's something simple that we believe in as a staff. Something we believe in that we can share with students and then in their own way having students to

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 14:32

yeah,

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 14:32

as well.

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 14:33

it's it's absolutely the link and, you know, and one of the things we talked about recently, too, was discipline matrix that we worked on. If you have that code the matrix then makes all the sense in the workplace. Because everything fits inside of that, that match, right? Because we know what the expectation is across the entire school. Because in the discipline matrix, we talk about teacher behaviors and how teachers will react. And we talk about how administrators will react when kids come to the classroom. And then we teach the kids the expectations overall. Right. So, so everybody understands what the code is. It fits. If you try to create a discipline matrix and you don't know what the code is in your building, how do you ever enforce it? How does it ever make sense? How does it ever carry on? It doesn't. So you have a discipline policy and in your student handbook, but what is it that that's circling around? What, is it that encompasses that, that I can always say? it was about the respect. It was about respect. It was, you know, it was about whether students are learning or not learning. That's when we have those kind of conversations because we now have something to build it around. And and so I think those things are, are essential to be able to build that plan when, when you're doing Discipline Matrix. You know, one of the schools that you're assisting right now sounds like at some point they need the discipline matrix, but they got to get a few more things. They got to go through the data.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 16:08

Well, let me make sure I say, because you mentioned discipline matrix. The best thing about discipline matrix is when you don't have to enforce it

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 16:16

Yeah,

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 16:16

and not use it as discipline. The discipline matrix is designed in theory to make sure, these are things that we want to make sure every teacher is going to be consistent about what they're going to do in their classroom. And how are we going to do it in a school wide procedure? the best thing about this for matrix and I've had been in schools where quite frankly, we had very little discipline. We didn't even, we need a matrix, but the point being made, we established policies and procedures. the discipline matrix was there, but it was rarely needed. And that was things we talked about when we were discussing schools. So Mark, here's what we're going to do. I appreciate this conversation today. we're going to have a guest speaker next week. former administrator, Mark, who is going to talk to us about school discipline and classroom management and his own unique way and how he was successful.

mark_2_10-16-2024_102651: 17:02

I think that's really good. I think the biggest thing is, is keeping in mind that this is an opportunity to listen to some podcasts that can enhance. Not only a classroom practice if we need to in the future as an individual teacher listening to this, but as administrators listening to it on the whole school system and how they can engage those other adults in the building.

bryan_2_10-16-2024_102730: 17:31

Absolutely. with that. Mark is good talking to you as always. Everybody who's listening, have a great day and we'll be back with you again, with this, our starting our new process, take care of everyone. Bye bye.