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Educational Relevance
A platform by educators for educators.
Educational Relevance
GIST with Dr. Frank Davila
Growing Intentionally via Systemic Thinking
by Dr. Frank Davila
This is an insightful perspective! Growth, whether personal or professional, often requires a deliberate and intentional approach. Dr. Frank Davila's emphasis on systemic thinking highlights the importance of preparation and understanding the interconnectedness of actions and decisions in leadership and teaching.
For more information about the the topics discussed,
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org
Thanks for listening. If you would like to share your thoughts or topic ideas, or would like to be a guest, you can find Educational Relevance on Facebook, YouTube or contact us at oliviaw1201@educationalrelevance.org
Hello. Welcome to Educational Relevance, a platform for experienced educators to share proven successful strategies to educate today's youth. My name is Bryan Wright. I'm an educational consultant in the Racine Unified School District. I'm also an adjunct professor from Concordia University, Wisconsin. With me today is my partner in crime, Mr. Mark McBeth, who is a proven author an educational leader. Also we have a guest today, Dr. Frank Davila. Frank is a, inspiration to me. also a man who comes with so many new educational ideas and strategies that we can utilize both as administrators and teachers. And we're going to talk about GISTT Growing, Intentionally via Systemic Thinking. It's called GISTT. And what we're going to do is talk about this program more at length, how educators in both the administrative realm and the educational realm in the classroom can be utilized to students' benefit. So with that being said, welcome, Frank. How you doing today, sir?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:I'm doing great., Thank you so much.
Bryan:Frank, let's start with this. We want to make sure you introduce GIST with us. And then at that time, Mark, I'm going to turn this over to you because you are our, esteemed, interviewer. And so let's get started. So Frank talked to us about the introduction of GIST. Absolutely, when I was thinking about GISTT,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:I was thinking about growing intentionally, but also via systemic process. Because if you want to have growth, it has to be done with intentionality. It has to be done in a process where you make it happen, because many times we think we do things by accident, but nothing is done by accident when you're in a leadership or in a classroom. You have to have preparation beforehand. You know, in your career, for example, we've all chosen to be there. And even the fact that we chose not to be there, and to not to choose another career, that was a choice that we made. So given that, because we are in a selective path, how do we now do a good homage to ourselves, to make things even better, so they can grow and keep providing more support to the people that we serve. And, and the GIST process, uh, Bryan, I was thinking about strategic planning when I thought about GIST. Because when I think of organizations, and I think a lot of us, and those of us listening here today, you're part of an organization. Um, I'm part of an organization, in this particular case, a non profit, where I'm a board member, we're going through a strategic planning process. But it's for the whole group. And I was thinking, okay, what about the individual? What does the individual fit in and how does the individual actually grow themselves so that they can then impart what they've known and be, and even grow the organization. And sometimes we don't do that enough. So I said, well, let me write about that because I'm thinking of the individual now and not the organization. Yes, the organization needs us, but we're, we got to grow ourselves before we can actually be a part and be a positive element for the organization.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:so, Frank, I went to school. Don't I know it?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yes, when you say you went to school, meaning that you understand all this process,
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:Yeah. So why, why the constant growth? If I've already spent that effort of learning about a topic
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Because in our work environment, we're always doing different things, different things during different times of the day. For example, as a school leader, you can walk into the building. They can get interrupted because you have a frustrated teacher or a parent or you have a child that has a special need. Or you have some other issues. Somebody called from the director's office, superintendent's office about the budget issue. So all of a sudden you're thrown into different kind of gyrations. you say you're learning. Yes, you are learning, but then how do you categorize that? And how do you take advantage of that learning process to make it even better? Uh, because sometimes when we have interruptions, we either get so frustrated. Or we get discouraged, or we say, you know, done here. I don't really think I can do this job. And, or we can say, you know, we don't have enough information, or we don't have enough background. But yes, you do. And what I'm trying to impart to everybody here is that we're in this position because we chose it. And we chose it because we prepared for it. And we prepared because we know what we can do, and we're doing what we love. But is that enough? Do we have enough in our system, in our, in our think tank to keep moving forward? Because if you think you've grown enough, then that means you stop learning. You stop growing. Because then you don't have anything else to go for. And to me that would be a tragedy to have somebody say, hey, I've got it all, So you've got to learn from whatever experience you have that day, from whatever meetings you have that day, whatever phone call you have that day. whatever other interruption, you have to take that as a learning process keep growing because if you don't, and again, many times when we are thinking perhaps of trying to find a way to learn, don't talk to other people. We just sometimes we think we don't have enough to offer or information to offer to other people. But again, I mentioned in one of my articles and I mentioned. that one time I had with this particular medical doctor, I told him, you know, I've got a gallbladder issue, I think. And he looked at me and he said, you know, Frank, um, I can take care of that, and I'm damn good. I mean, I'm a great physician. And I say that because I think as teachers, as administrators, we're good. We know that. We've got the title, the credentials, but we don't take advantage of that mindset. And because we say, okay, if, if I'm where I think I am and I'm not going to grow anymore, then where are we? Are we going to stop? that's what I want to call about systemic. You have to be intentional. And I want to talk about those in a few minutes as far as the various aspects of growing.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:so that, that's 1 of the things that was going, you just used the word I was thinking of intentional. It sounds like you're, you're saying that we need to stop and reflect and make intentional check marks to say I'm learning something new. I want to capture and reuse it. Would that be correct?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because if we, if we're not intentional about it, then we're just kind of letting it happen to us. We have to get control of what's happening to us. Uh, because if we're not intentional, then we're just uh, having other people tell us what to do. We're having the situation dictate how we, how we react. We're not being proactive because we're not thinking. We're not stopping to pause. We're not pausing at all to reflect like you said. And in order to be intentional, that means you have to have that energy and that desire, in Spanish we call it ganas. Ganas meaning wanting to. have to have that desire to actually go out and do something about it intentionally rather than just simply say, Hey, it'll happen. Or, you know, after lunch it'll, it'll straighten itself out. You know, we expect, or somebody will take care of it. maybe they will, but if not, then we're not in charge we haven't taken that intentional step happen. Does that make
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:Yeah, yeah. So there's a program out there, an initiative that helps school administrators. It's called Sam. But, uh, within that, um, as a strategic management type of program, they have somebody assigned to help administrator reflect purposefully throughout the day to see if they are, um, capturing and retaining information that they've seen with teachers when they're walking in and out of the classrooms and stuff. Um, Is this something that we need somebody else to tell us to learn? Or can we self reflect and do things
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:I would say both. I would say both because many times when we a new position, for example, I've known a new superintendents came on board this year, and I'm sure all of us know some principles that took on a position this year and they're here. We are half of the year gone now they're reflecting. And is this what I signed up for? Or do I need to do anything else to make myself more visible? I have the tools? So yes, like you said, maybe there's a checklist that we can use to help us find a way to recheck ourselves and to reflect and say, okay, I've got to go back and learn more about this particular issue, whether it be in the budget arena, professional development, or in curriculum, or whatever else that's out there that's really cropping up as being a deficit, either in your line of work or in the deficit within the organization. And so if you find that, because many times we so much on deficit but we don't focus on what makes things change around, what can change a deficit to something positive. And so we need, again that goes back to what you're saying, we can use a tool or we can just pause and reflect on it because either way we need to find a way to sure that we take control of the situation.
Bryan:let me ask this question, how do we go from intentionality and what we're discussing to a systems approach? How are we going to, to deliver the material? And that would do about
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:That's just where I was going. Yeah.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yeah, you know, when, when you think about systems, that's when you look at the whole package and you look at the way that everything's involved because everything's seamless, so to speak, everything's in there, you know, when you think about a high school, for example, as a comprehensive high school, you have all these departments, all these people, doing, different things, you know, you have the band, the athletics, the military, you know, the ROTC and so forth. Then you have the classrooms. But how do you put all that systems and package it together for it to make sense? In other words, now you've got to go back and appraise each element of that system. And what is each element contributing? if it's not contributing in a positive way, what's keeping it from doing that? What are some areas that are holding it back? Because then you look at it systemically. Because then you look at what's happening that's going well, what's happening that's coming up as barriers and then you systemically look at that because many times when we think about a, uh, our building, we don't think about other people outside at the, the district office that can be helping us. We just lock in on our building and, but we've got to go beyond that. to, sometimes we get so locked in on some one particular aspect. Same thing in a classroom. You know, we get locked into the classroom, but we don't think about other people around or other experts. And, and other. So, we need to explore, find the strengths, find the weaknesses, the challenges, systemically And when you say systemically, that means you take the time to make, to review it, to capture everything that's going on in a way that then you can notate it and determine exactly this is where I want to be, this is where we're going, and if not, then why not? what I'm asking by way of systemic approach. Does that make sense?
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:Yeah, that makes sense. I do. Uh, you're making me think about something. Um, um, I think it's a military concept, but it's called improvise, adapt and overcome. So aren't I just just adapting and changing as the day goes on and dealing with it? Or is it something different than that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:it's a combination, because you have to adapt, obviously, to make sure you don't get, uh, go sideways and go in the wrong direction. So you have to adapt. But at the same time, at the end of the day, you have to go back and reflect and say, Okay, that adaptation that I did, is that going to stick, or do I need to readapt and make that something different? Or is that a good adaptation and I'm going to stick with it and I'm going to use it? For example, you mentioned military and, and let me give you another military, uh, analogy. many times in the military we go when we march and we then we do what they call mark time. time is when you just stand in one location, one leg goes up, left and right and, but you don't move. You go up and down until you hear the command either halt or, you know, move or march. so the question is, are we just marking time in some areas? Because if we don't adapt, then we're just kind of moving, actually, we're not moving. We're just standing there, letting things happen around us. So, I agree, we do need something that'll pay attention to the adaptations, but at the same time, reflect and see if those adaptations are something that we can use.
Bryan:So make sure I asked this question cause I think you, you did the GISTt pretty well, but so you're saying what the thinking process that comes from the systemic, uh, of the ideas we're discussing that thing process is also a review is a review process. We review what we're doing. How's it working? So we can talk about how we're going to make some changes again in the near future.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Absolutely, because when you're talking about reviewing, you're also talking about time, time frame, benchmarks. And other kinds of things that you're, and goals that you're setting. are you going to meet those? Who's going to be responsible for that particular aspect? And when do we know we're going to get there? And do we set a timeline? And what are the tools that we need? if we just go along with the day, but we don't see what we need to, we don't know who to ask for help, kind of support we need, what kind of materials. if you ask people, they'll tell you, you know, Mark, I need this, or Bryan, I need this. Can you help me? But if we don't do it systemically, then we'll just get bits and pieces. if we don't get something that's useful, we might get the wrong tool, or the tool is not right for that particular purpose at that particular time. So we've got to be very, uh, deliberate about it, and know exactly what we're looking for, and who can help us, and how they can help us. Because then we can track what we're doing, And, and B, we can track also the time frame, and then C, we know when we get there. That's what I'm talking about being systemic.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:So if I was to make a connection to, the work that I've done in the past, I talk about, routines. Routines are things that are, a practice that is consistently done stretched across time. If we do it consistently, then we can measure it. But if we do it once or twice, we don't know whether it's made an impact or not. What you're saying is we need to really think about it and are we doing it systematically in a way that the systemic approach gives us information to say, is it working or not working? Would that be?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Exactly. Yes, because many times we hear the expression, oh, we've done that for years. Well, that's the way it used to be done. Well, that's the way the previous administrator did it, and it worked okay. But we never re evaluated it. We just did it because of habit, or because it was a good way to get it done, it was efficient. things can be efficient, but are they really reaching the specific target we want to get at? it really reaching the students and their learning and the development of the, for example, many times differentiation, for example, is a good way to put it. When we provide differentiation, not only for instruction, but also professional development. Because if we teach the same thing the same way every day to the same people, you have different students that need to present it to them in different ways. You have different teachers that need it, need to hear about it in different ways. Because we have different, you know, some of us learn visually, others auditorily, others by doing. we take advantage of that if we do it the same way all the time? So we, we need to know who the people are in front of us because then we can target what we're doing that particular routine. If it's reaching everybody, then that's a good routine. If it's only reaching a third, then we need to re examine that routine. that's way I would differentiate
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:yeah, there was a, there used to be this thing I, I, I saw where it said, I taught my dog how to whistle and the guy says, well, I don't hear your dog whistling. He says, I told you I taught him. I didn't say he learned it.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yeah, exactly.
Bryan:me to a question. so this is a continual process to GIST process. That's the first thing I wanted to ask you. Is this something that is going to perpetuate continual learning? Then is there a timeframe? something like this, that, somebody say, Hey, I think I'm mastering the concept of GIST, uh, but at the same time, uh, I got to see how long it takes,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:depends what it is you're trying to accomplish. For example, if you're trying to become better at running the organization from the curriculum aspect, then you need to spend time learning the curriculum. Yeah, exactly. Finding the experts, and if you need to find time about assessment, how to use assessment tools, and how to measure student growth. And if you don't have that skill set, you need to find time. So at some point you're going to say, yeah, now I got it. I can do, I can know about assessment. I can ask the right questions of a teacher to know if the student is moving academically. I know enough about finance that I can now put a budget together. So at some point you'll get to say, yeah, I'm ready for the next goal, for the next learning curve. it's, it is continuous until you reach a point where you think you have enough tools and enough knowledge base. Then you go on to something else. But if you look at it on the overall for you, all the tools that you're grabbing and holding on to, that's your whole package. That's your whole growth mindset, because now you're adding more to your tools, and you're becoming a bigger person because now you have more tools, a bigger tool chest, and a deeper knowledge base. That's an intentional process. Many times when we say, you need to think about this, we perhaps don't realize that sometimes we, our habits that we have diminish what we do because we want to experiment with something new. We don't want to do something different because we're, that's uncomfortable. So we got to think through, what is holding us back? What is making me do something, what's going to stretch me? Because if I'm going to go in front of a group. Do I want to do the same thing, or do I want to stretch and learn something new, do something more exciting, and that's going to be
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:well, so habits are conditional, right? I mean, they've been conditioned to us because we've done it over and over again. It's kind of like that conversation where you started, you said, you walk in and you're putting down the fires at the beginning of the day after you've done that for 10, 20 days in a row. All of a sudden, that's what you do every day. You just arrive and wait for people to come in with the fire so you can put it out. My old superintendent, Tim Dunaway, used to say, put it on your schedule that you're going to be doing these things so you can be an instructional leader. You have to schedule them where they will not become routine. They do not become daily practice. You'll just deal with interruptions all day. And I think that's kind of that intentionality that you're talking about.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:because they become used to that kind of a day, you know, that's your day, and you become used to it, and you You don't see anything different coming up around for something to excite you. Unless you go to another building and someone else is doing something differently. I think when we think about being transformative, that means we have to change something within ourselves, our mindset. And we have to pause and reflect on what it is that we're doing. Because if we don't, then we're going to do the same thing all over again. It'll be like Groundhog Day, so to speak.
Bryan:So let me ask this question, Frank. Uh, so basically, GIST to something both administrators and teachers could use GIST when he started talking about academic change?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yes, everybody can use the GIST because GIST is growing intentionally, systemically as an individual. you want to be able to know that you're making a difference that you're learning from what you're doing every day. you're not being stymied, you're not going and saying, okay, today was Monday, I didn't learn anything today, or did I? You need to stop and think. So as a teacher or administrator, look at the day that just happened, because when you look at that day, many things will help you think, you know, I want to do things differently next tomorrow. if you think of that in that fashion, and you think, okay, intentionally, how can I be intentional tomorrow about something different with a particular student? Or how can I think intentionally tomorrow about doing something with that classroom? Because if I do, then I begin to plan systemically how I'm going to accomplish that. Then it becomes part of my building block and my routine to be thoughtful, to be intentional, to lay out a plan, and then the next day, you know, put that plan into action. Because if we just show up and don't think about it, then we're going to wind up with the same steps that we did the day before, and nothing's going to change.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:So this shapes our values and principles and everything.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Absolutely. Your core values, sometimes our core values get in the way, because we bump into other core values and we don't want to give in. so we have to be, be able to, willing to listen and to learn about other people and what their core values are. now we're talking about working as an, as a unit, as a, an, an individual, we need to think about my particular beliefs, my principles, My beliefs and values, are they aligned with everyone else? Not that we have to give up what we are, who we are. And I'm not suggesting that at all, that we give up core values or principles. But the strategies and the techniques can change. The process can change without you giving up your core value.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:what do people see when we're growing like that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:I think they see excitement. I think they see energy. I think they see people taking a risk. And I also see a lot of people asking questions, because if you want to learn, you're going to have to ask questions, because you don't have all the answers as an individual. I know I don't, and I'm sure none of us do. when people see us moving about, asking, what do you think about this, give me your thinking, if they see us doing some planning, some deep planning, how to make changes, not only short term, but long term, then they begin to say, hey, we've got something going here that is not stagnant. is not going in one, just one direction. It has multiple strands to it. we can pick up energy from this. We can grow even bigger. because, uh, we learn, then we push others to maybe learn. Because as a leader, you're setting the example. You're gauging at the same time. But they're looking at you, and if you're, uh, don't have the energy, if you don't have the interest, then whatever you suggest is going to fizzle out. Because they say, well, he really was or she really wasn't interested in that. And look at the way they're actually kind of letting off the steam and letting off the pedal. Uh, so it's back to the whole routine.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019:So one last question. What's, what's the nugget that I should be taking from this? Um, to change who I am today, right now, this moment.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:To look in the mirror and look at who you are Describe yourself and assess yourself. Because you have a brand that you're putting out. And every single day out there, you live in a footprint. And when you live that footprint, what is that saying? And what is your legacy? And because what you say and the way you behave, the way you speak, you set the goals, how you act out the goals, and a reflection of who you really are. And that tells people, this is where I am, and I'm moving, I'm a person who wants to move forward, and I want you to come with me.
Bryan:Wow. That's a way to end it there. Frank. I'm telling you that right now.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:ha, ha.
Bryan:make sure I say this to you. first of all, excellent questions, Mark. I got to say that to you. I think, You're really in tune to what was being discussed today. Frank, thank you again and make sure we're talking about Frank is educational change for the help assist in how we develop students educational minds.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Yeah, and I think when you present this in the classroom with the students, they can have their own thinking and understanding of what they mean, what they think about systemic how they can process it and how can they put that together. Because different people are good at planning, others are not very good or don't want to plan, but others are very good at putting things together and lining pieces and thinking about long term and so forth. so if you, they can, cannot do it individually, Bryan, maybe put up a team of people that can work together and develop this just as a team, and then they can pull it out as individual from there.
Bryan:Well, let me make sure I say this. I think, uh, we will be happy to provide a copy of the GISTt, plan itself, all four parts, will be part of our, our, our, our program. make sure you subscribe to us and we want to make sure you do that. we'll have this information just ask requests. We'll be happy to provide it to you. But in the meantime, I want to make sure I say to you, doc. Good to see you, Frank. It's great to have you on this program. Mark, always man, always partner I just think we learn more and more every time we have, educational leaders on this and to everybody else. thank you for listening to us again. Everybody take care now. Bye bye.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_160020:Goodbye.