Hawk Podcast and SAS with Stewart Townsend

In episode 30 of Retail Checks and Balances, Kevin Spencer interviews Stewart Townsend, CEO of Podcast Hawk, as he shares his journey from selling steel to founding a podcast SaaS product, offering valuable insights into the podcasting and SaaS sectors.

Tune in as they discuss the importance of time management, personal passions like car shows, and reflections on life and work balance. 

TIMESTAMPS

[00:01:28] From Steel Sales to Podcasting.

[00:04:46] Podcasting and Lead Generation Strategies.

[00:08:53] Importance of Using a Calendar.

[00:14:33] Legacy and Impact.

[00:16:38] Art and Collectibles Hobby.

[00:20:05] Charity Car Show Achievement.

[00:24:19] Taking Risks and Breaking Boundaries.

QUOTES

• "I'm not designed to be very good at investments or making decisions at that time of life. And then for the last sort of five or six years, I've got my own consultancy working with smaller software companies, helping them grow sales teams.” - Stewart Townsend
• "There's no point in working 89 hours a day if you could do it in three. Don't feel guilty. You can do it in three. Just work. Do it in three. Get on with it." - Stewart Townsend

SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS

Kevin Spencer

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kspencer007/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinspencer007/

Stewart Townsend

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stewarttownsend

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/podcasthawk/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stewarttownsend/

WEBSITE

Rod Plus Solutions: https://rodplussolutions.com/

Stewart Townsend: https://stewarttownsend.com/

Podcast Hawk: https://podcasthawk.com/

Transcript

Welcome to Retail Checks and Balances, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the bustling world of commerce and culinary delights to help you grow your business and win. Join us as we explore the fascinating stories, trends, and challenges that shape the retail and hospitality industry, from cozy corner cafes to sprawling shopping malls and everything in between. And now, here's your host, Kevin Spencer.

Welcome again to Retail Checks and Balances. Today we have a special guest, Stuart Townsend, CEO of Podcast Pork. Welcome to the show, Stuart.

Kevin Spencer

Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me on. Joining you from actually quite sunny Lancashire in the UK at the moment, but we've had torrential rain all day, so we'll pretend it's summertime anyway. It's summertime somewhere, isn't it?

Stewart Townsend

I was there some years ago and we actually got a good summer day to go to Buckingham Palace and stuff. We were there for three days because we're going to Ireland. We got one good day where we got some sun, went to Buckingham Palace and walked around to the Abbey and stuff like that. So it was great. But the other two days, it was dismal for sure.

Kevin Spencer

Yeah. The umbrella salespeople love it on those days, I can tell you.

So tell us a bit about yourself and your journey to where you are today.

Yeah. I'm quite far back. I'll give a little bit of background. So obviously I'm not 21 and I've been around a bit. I started life, ironically, selling steel, old rolled steel for about 10 years. And I decided that wasn't for me. And I went back to university part-time, got my degree and my master's degree to then go work in a corporate job. So depending on your age, I worked for a company called Sun Microsystems who basically sold Spark, Mainframe, Solaris. And it's where Linux came from and that sort of thing, and Unix and such. So I was there for about 14 years. It was awesome. And whilst I was there, I got the joys of setting up my own startup accelerator program and started to work with companies like Spotify, Last.fm. And the idea was to try and find the next Facebook and Google. But what that gave me is an insight into, actually, there's other ways to make money and work for companies that actually, you're not working. No, I won't say you're not working as hard. You're working harder, but you're not working in the machine type of thing. So I wouldn't have stayed at Sun forever, but Oracle came along and bought us. I then moved into going to work for a couple of startup SaaS companies. And then out of that, after I left Zendesk, I decided to be crazy and open a furniture store. Totally bizarre. Totally bizarre. So I've worked for these SAS companies. I've worked all the way through. I've left them. And the reason I sort of left is I was traveling a lot to London. So I opened a retail furniture store and a company supplying detailing car products because I'm into cars. Out of that, failed miserably. I'm not designed to be very good at investments or making decisions at that time of life. And then for the last sort of five or six years, I've got my own consultancy working with smaller software companies, helping them grow sales teams. And then I've built out with a co-founder of mine, this podcast talk, this podcast SaaS product. So it's been a very rare, varied journey, lots of lessons on the way. And yeah, I've definitely found what my weak points are through good failure points, really.

Oh, nice. What would you describe your expertise right now in terms of name and terms?

Yeah, so I suppose my expertise is waffling, talking a lot. Um, no, uh, ironically, one's a lot around the podcast space and, um, podcasts and sales and lead generation. I think it's such an intact resource. And, and again, I always give this full credit, you know, full recognition to hosts like yourself. It is not an easy thing. People think a podcast is, oh, you just interview some people and then you slam it up there and it takes 10 minutes. No, no, no, no. It doesn't. It's like, I've got the easy job. I've just rocked up now. I can waffle away. So I know a lot about the podcasting sector. I talk a lot about that, but from a sales and lead generation. And then a lot about the SaaS software sector. So software as a service, how to grow sales in there, how to build out marketing teams, how to grow those types of organizations. Because predominantly I've worked for 25 years, I'm saying too long, 25 years for American companies. So I get the gist of that. I'd say that sort of two core aspects that definitely without blowing my own trumpet, I know a bit about them. I know 5% more than the next person, which is always a good thing.

Is there any specific projects you're working on that you're excited about that you can share?

Yeah. So, well, Yeah, I think, you know, with the podcast hawk business, that's predominantly at the moment about being a guest on podcasts and that sort of thing. But there's an element of that that I'm working on releasing a separate component, which is about podcasting data and thinking about it in sales and lead generation from that side. So how to find some insights on your competitors or how to find the white space of places. So like you said earlier, Kevin, you haven't got sponsors and things, but somebody may come along and say, well, actually. There's other podcasts similar to retail checks and balances. Let's go and look at them. Oh, they've got advertisers. Oh, but Kevin hasn't. So that to me, again, I love artificial intelligence. It's a great buzzword. I've been following it for the last 18 months. But a lot of what's happening now is all machine learning and just large data sets. And that's what we're working on at the moment. And to me, I set up this organization called Big Data Week about 10 years ago. The idea used to get 200,000 people come at virtual events and stuff. It's just AI is now a new buzzword for what was happening 10 or 12 years ago. It's just like really just throw AI in anything. Oh, there's some more money investments, like, yeah. Anyway, we won't go down that route because I'll rant all day long.

Yeah, I know you talked about some of the challenges you had in your career. What do you think would be the most important lesson you've learned from those challenges and how you overcome, overcame, sorry, these challenges?

I think, uh, I suppose it's a little bit different in the U S but in the UK, failure is failure. It's the worst thing ever. It's like in the U S you get awarded more money for it and a prize and a gold award. Um, but I think it's taking those lessons away. So I did realize, you know, working in corporate, working in startups, it was two differences there about the level of work involved. And that was hard. Um, but I think the key thing I learned was when you back to the wall, you can either. make it, fake it, or just give up. So essentially I left Zendesk, had some money to keep me going and misinvested that. So I know I'm not an investor. I learned from that. I've never invested ever since into another company. And also with the furniture company and the detailing company, it wasn't my wheelhouse. It's not what I'm good at. It was a whim that I decided to do. And really practicality wise, hindsight's a great thing, but looking back, learning from those lessons of, do things that you're passionate about and you really understand. Um, so I had to go out and earn some money and it was like, well, I've always done this aspect of my, my specialty in software is about channel sales. So it's literally resellers and partners selling products. And I was like, well, why don't I go and solve that problem that everybody has about that and get paid for it. So, yeah, I think the key element is that back to the wall and sort of learn from it. And sometimes that, that does set you on the right path for me, but, but yeah, I definitely won't be setting up another furniture company ever again.

So if you don't mind me asking, what habits or routines that you live by have contributed to your success in this moment?

My calendar. Calendar is king. I don't care what anybody says, but I call it my brain CRM is getting older now and its storage is diminishing. So I can't remember. You know, as much detail about people that I've met or what a meeting's about and such. So I've always worked, even in my personal life, which sounds really anal, um, I've always worked on a calendar. And for me, it's like knowing at the end of the day, like now I'm going to tease in the oven. We'll finish this call. I'll be looking at where I'm supposed to be at tomorrow. What I'm supposed to be doing. I'll be prepped. I'll be prepared. And then I know, right. Okay. Tomorrow is this, this and this. I've got some time to do that. And the same again, I do a lot of car shows, I organize a charity car show, I organize events and things. They're all in my calendar, they're all organized. So, you know, it's one of those tools that I live by. If I haven't got my calendar available, I'm like, you know, it's just like the end of the world sort of thing. Um, and that's the joys of cloud now actually is that. Your calendar's there. I've moved from a paper-based calendar from a long time ago. That definitely, for me, is the aspect of knowing where you're supposed to be, what you're doing, what that meeting's about, whether it's personal or business, and being prepared for the next day puts you in the right mindset and maximizes your time. There's no point in working 89 hours a day if you could do it in three. Don't feel guilty. You can do it in three. Just work. Do it in three. Get on with it. It's a mantra, ironically, that we have this remote working now and Zoom and all this stuff post-COVID. Some microsystems, 14 years ago, 15 years ago, was remote working, you had a desktop and the manager's mantra was that it's like, if you hit your target or you've done your job, don't feel guilty by working three days a week. Bugger off somewhere. I don't care. You know, over exceed where you can, but don't, don't get stressed by it because there's going to be weeks where you're working 90 hours. So yeah.

That's very inspiring. I've never heard anybody speak about their calendar like that, but you significantly have proven that it's super important and I guess that you have a good life work balance per se by using your calendar. I mean, I spoke to somebody the other day and they were talking about that they don't put personal stuff in their calendar and then they forget. And then the wife is screaming at them and stuff like that. So from what you're saying there, I think it's an important thing for the listeners to know that you got to live by the calendar for sure. Because if you don't, then it's chaos, right?

It just gives you that guidance. I mean, especially when I was in corporate land, I'd be traveling all week, Monday to Friday, and I would forget, like, is it birthdays? Am I supposed to be home for a dinner? So, you know, if that wasn't in my calendar, I'd be like, ah, I'll book this flight, and I'm going to Italy, and I'm going there. It's, ah, no, I'm supposed to be home, but I've booked it now. And yeah, having those arguments at home very quickly puts you into a mindset of doing that sort of thing. And it's not so much in like the personal stuff for the weekend. It's not that it's like, Oh my God, I've got to do this by the minute. It's a reminder of activities or things rather than, cause I'm quite a lazy person in terms of organizing stuff. It's like, it gets the weekends. Oh, I know I've got three choices here. I can go and do things or on a Friday afternoon, I've got nothing booked in. Right. I'm going out for a drive. I'm going to do 200 miles around the district. And I don't feel bad about it because well, I could always find something to do. Can't even work. You could work 90 hours a day, if there was 90 hours, and always find something. So you've got to carve that time out for you. And the thinking time as well. Don't feel guilty about thinking time. Thinking time is the best thing ever.

And so how do you, I mean, and I'm moving on into what you're saying there, how do you measure a successful week or month of work based on managing that time?

I think for me, it's getting to the end of the week and thinking, I'm quite happy. I'm not feeling any of this stuff. You know, that measurement, I suppose, weekly or monthly. You know, I suppose if I look at it from a sales aspect, it'd be KPI metrics. I'm not, not sort of like detailed. It's more of, have I had a good week? Have I hit everything that I've needed to do? Have I gone through and done my proposals, quotes, have I done some sales, have I done all these pieces? And again, like I say, if I did those in the first three days, cause you always get, cause I work for myself and the software company, you get curve balls, don't you? So like today I had things that I wanted to do this morning that I had planned and booked in. But I forgot, I've just done this charity car show, I have to return the radios. So that was two hours that I hadn't planned for, because I wasn't taking them back, but I knew the outcome. So it was like, right, pure ball, zoom, just move some things around. So those sort of outbound activities I was going to do, I'm just doing those tomorrow morning instead, from that side. So yeah, it's more of a, I think getting to the end of that week or month and going, have we achieved what I anticipated to achieve? And again, not going back and spending hours. It's just like, no, I've done all that. Or yeah, that was a bit pants because actually I took way too much time off in the week going driving or doing more exciting things.

Nice. And, um, you know, we, we, we all talk about when we get to a certain age, you know, um, I'm up there as well, about what legacy we want to leave. What legacy do you want to leave in terms of your business or life or whatever the case is?

Business-wise, I'm not really in that wheelhouse of legacy aspects. I think it's more from a I'm going to sound like I'm from the sixties or something, but I think more from a personal aspect of I've helped to made some impact that has helped other people. Right. That's it for me. Uh, and again, I do things I enjoy. So, you know, if I do some charity work, it's about cars. Cause I love cars or, you know, if I'm helping other people, I could do consulting to other people for free. to help them go along. I'm a great believer of karma and payback later on. Like I say, I had a call last week with a chap who had met in a private mastermind group that we're in, and did about an hour's worth of consulting with them. He was like, I really appreciate it. I said, well, it's fine. When your software company is doing a million in revenue, just don't forget me. All right? Buy me a drink. I'm cool. or maybe a bottle of nice whiskey, but it is, I think, you know, for me, it'd be that personal legacy of help. you know, sharing knowledge and helping other people that were coming up upstream and go, all right, Oh, I helped Bob. And that's what I used to love when I was at Song. It was working with the most smaller companies. And like a good friend of mine, Nick Halstead, I helped him with some aspects around his first company. Then it became Datasift and then he sold that. Now he's a British touring car driver. And it's great to see of like those little, pushing the ball a little bit to left or right and just helping support some people and just seeing them come out on the other side. So long-winded answer, but yeah, I think that's what I'd like to hopefully leave an impact on.

Nice. Very well said. Outside of work, I see you have some beautiful art in the back of you. Superman and the Joker and Harley Quinn. Is that Batman in the middle?

Yeah. Yeah. It's Batman. All right. It's a famous DC artist that I always forget his name, which is really bad. And I spent a little bit of time trying to get those three pieces. And for anybody that's looking, they're a limited edition. I didn't pay full price on them. I got them at auction. So if anybody knows the artist who's listening and watching such and sort of sees them, no, I didn't pay for retail on them because they were full retail. I was like, oh my God, solid kidney. So yeah, joys of auction houses, which I absolutely love.

So outside of the art, is there anything else that piques your interest?

I used to be a big avid football fan, Man United season ticket holder. But as I've got a bit old, well, last 10, 15 years, because I was traveling so much, it just didn't become practical. So less on that. But like I say, I'm a bit of a car lover. I've got a race car. stupid car that's got stupid electrics in it and stuff. And I do a lot of car events and things. I do like a lot of reading as well, but more audible now from that side. And again, where I live, I'm by a place called Pendle Hill. So a lot, I would say a lot of thinking time by walking because it's on my doorstep. So I've just been, I can meander a couple of miles a day just walking about. Does also, Kevin, give me an excuse to have a kebab for tea or some unhealthy food as well. So I can like, oh yeah, eat that one. Did a bit of walking today. Yeah, that's it. That's it.

That's funny. And, you know, you talk about Man United, we talk about the Alex Ferguson days, but now, you know, Man United is not the same, right?

Now it's funny, I've just been watching on Netflix, the three-part series about the 98, 99 season. So I was actually at the Champions League final behind the net. I lost some of my glasses on the first goal. And then I was just picking them up as the second goal went in. And it was at a time, it was when they used to sell steel and we took our customers across. It was just, I just had my son. United won the treble. It was like a perfect time. We were getting ready for year 2000, the world was going to end. So let's end on a high, we united win the treble. It was, it was a different era. Definitely, definitely with the, with them bringing the youth team through. Now, not as, not, it's a bit like Formula One. I'm not as passionate about Formula One anymore. So Monaco at the weekend, it's just like cars go around. It's like a scale electric track. Just, yeah.

Nice. Is there any personal achievements or business achievements that you'd like to share that kind of positions sort of a legacy as we were talking about before?

I think I suppose from a personal achievement is The last 10 years I've been running this car show, this charity car show. I'm quite sort of proud that I've had the patience to do that because we're all volunteers and we pull it together and we raise money for Pendleside Hospice, which is a cancer hospice every year. So I'm really sort of proud of not just me, but the whole team that come together to do that. And I think I can help do that and support it because the other people that are involved are more sort of trades people and such. And with what I've sort of learned over working in corporates and startups and doing my own business and it failing really badly. And the software side, I can bring all those skills together into that and do a lot of the activities and help sort of promote it around it, that sort of thing. So yeah, I'm proud of that. And I think also the other thing that I'm proud of is stepping away from that hamster wheel of Leaving Zendesk was a really big decision, but stepping away from it was, I need to do this for my own sanity. I can't keep traveling everywhere. I've gone through a couple of divorces and things due to work coming first. A couple, isn't it? Yeah, two. Sorry. And again, no, no, it's fine. It's, it's my decision. I, I, you know, my calendar ruled work first before personal life, but it was, I need to step away and I've changed my license. And so now it's about doing things work that I enjoy or my personal life. I enjoy and work isn't a priority housing, right? Okay. I have to be in Paris on nine o'clock Monday morning. If I want to be in Paris, I had a customer I would be, but it's not dictating my life. So I think that. that risk of stepping away from a salary and that comfort zone, yeah, it took me a long time to make that decision. I still wasn't 21 when I made that decision, but yeah, I'm pleased that I did. I think, again, it came for me at the right time. My son had left home. I didn't have that responsibility of having to get him through university or anything like that. He's old. Well, he's not old. didn't have to worry about those sort of things. Time to take the plunge.

To close up, the car shows that you do, what's the format of that show in terms of what are you offering to your audience?

Yeah, so we do, uh, we do a couple of types. We do standard cars and coffee, which is you can bring your car and you can go back and forward for a couple of hours. Well, the one that we did at the weekend is a static car showed you to insurance. So we get. Due to the weather, we only had a hundred cars there, but we had 200 cars booked, but yeah, typical UK weather. So they have to be there before 10 o'clock in the morning and we can't leave until after three o'clock and it's static. And then all around that we have family entertainment. So we have model railways, Scalextric, Stiltwalkers. We had all the Star Wars cast, like costume wise, not the real cast, a magician, All those sorts of things. So it's, it's a car show, but it's a family day that we do in the village every year. So it's, it's, if you love cars, it's great. If you don't love cars, it doesn't matter. There's all the stuff you can do, uh, as well, type of thing. So it's a good balance. And like I say, it just means for me, it's like, oh, great. I get to see all these unusual cars that you don't see on the road because they're stuck in a garage and they don't bring them out that much. So yeah, it's good. It's good fun.

Nice. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us before we close? Anything specific that you think that you want to share in terms of what you're doing in the next couple of months, next five to 10 years?

Five to 10 years, hopefully I'm retired. Next five to 10 months. Yeah. So the big thing is, like I said, working on this, the next iteration of podcast talk. So there's a lot of data stuff around that and getting that ready to go in sales from that side. But I think anything from the audience to take away is a little bit like, And again, it's funny because I just had this conversation was looking at that risk and not being, it's easy to say isn't it, not being bound by, stuck on that flywheel. But I was having a chat earlier with a chap who works with pharmacists, so chemist dispensers type of thing. By the time we've left university or college or house, right into that life, they're in like half a million to 600K. dollars worth of debt. So they have to keep on that job, they have to keep on that. So it's looking at a way of exiting that, whether you do a side hustle, or you change your career path, or you downsize, or don't let the man or that aspect of having to earn that money to set a certain criteria lead your life. Because you'll get to 60, your house is paid off, but you've not done anything because you've never had an extra time or money to do that. And that's what I was doing. I was literally, I was paying for a house, no time. I was traveling, but we work. And you suddenly realize that the years are going by really quickly and you've not took that risk. So I'll say that that's the key thing I'd say is sort of look at that aspect. Yeah, it's easy for me to say it. But just have that perspective and say, is there a way of exiting that or doing something different, moving, changing, changing your lifestyle? Because there's so many lovely places to see on the earth in that you can go and visit that. It's like, yeah, didn't do that. You don't want to get back. You don't want to get to the end, not to the end, but you know, gets that time where you reside and look back and go, Oh, I'd love to do that, but I can't because I'm too old now to get on a plane and travel all the way around the world. It's going to kill me. By the time my son's ready for retirement, it'll be rocket ships and stuff, so he'll be okay.

Stuart, thank you so much. This has been very, very educational, very, very inspiring, and I wish you all the best in what you plan to do pushing forward.

Thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. It's appreciated. No problem. Anytime.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you consume podcasts so we'll get updates as new episodes become available. And if you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. Until next time, friends.