Ep 09: Riding the Waves of New Motherhood in Turbulent Times

Today I'm going to be talking with Julia, as she shares her challenges of learning how to embrace, how things can look way different than you thought and still turn out okay. She's also going to tell us how she and her partner work together to find their way forward while living in a different country during the time of pandemic.

Episode Highlights:
(03:33 - 04:14) Julia shares about her, experiencing pandemic and culture shock all at the same time while worrying about giving birth to her baby

(09:43 - 12:06) Julia talks about the stress she felt having issues with her lactation and her realization that having high expectations is her biggest mistake

(30:15 - 31:14) Julia celebrating her motherhood and sharing her advice to other moms who might be facing challenges similar to hers

Do you have a story to tell?
If your breastfeeding experience has been transformative for you and you'd like to share it with others, then please let us know! We're always looking for new stories to let other people know what's possible. Just send your name and a short overview of your journey, or even just your words of wisdom for new parents.

Also, if you need support and want to connect with other parents who understand what you're going through, check out the Nourished Young Community so we can help support you on your journey.

Visit www.nourishedyoung.com to learn more.

Transcript

Hi, I'm Avery Young and this is the Nourished Young Podcast. From the subway train to the soccer field, everywhere I go, people have a story to tell me about their experience feeding and caring for their new baby. And so, I decided it was time to amplify those voices so we can all know what's real and what's possible and make those who are beginning their parenting journey feel a little less alone.

So, today, I'm going to be talking with Julia as she shares her challenges of learning how to embrace how things can look way different than you thought and still turn out okay, and how she and her partner worked together to find their way forward. Hi, Julia, welcome to the Nourished Young Podcast. I am so happy to have you here.

Julia:

Thank you for the invitation, Avery. I'm really happy to be here and sharing a little bit of wisdom.

Avery:

Yeah, I'm sure you have a lot to share. So, why don't you tell us a little bit about your story?

Julia:

Oh, where to start? Starting from I was pregnant in the middle of the pandemic. So, I'm originally from Mexico. I moved to Vancouver in 2020. So, I think for those moms who have children during that time, it was pretty scary for many reasons, obviously. But then being isolated in a new country, new people. They say it takes a village, right? To raise children. And at least, my country and my culture, basically children, they are raised within your family with a tribe that basically supports you. So, it was pretty lonely, to be honest, being pregnant, not being with my family, not being with my friends that been with me my whole life.

And then being in a culture ... And this is not against Canadians. I love Canada and I'm really happy, I'm really grateful to be here. But at that point, and still, and I know Canadians also accept this, it's a different culture. The culture is more cold and they say also it is basically because of the weather too. Finding friends, build deep connections, it's not as easy as in Mexico, for example, with a Latin culture. And for me, obviously new to the country, I have zero friends, right? And the two friends that I have, and at the time they were pregnant too. I guess that I was expecting a different approach and more sharing, and that didn't happen and that didn't help also.

So yeah, I will say that that was the beginning of my journey being pregnant during the pandemic with all these fears about do I get the vaccine? Do I don't get the vaccine? This is right for me and for the baby. It is not right, but what if I get COVID? So, I guess, it was pretty hard for everyone, not just for me. I will say, for everyone, that we were pregnant at that point. And then obviously after the birth, still COVID, you didn't want people get close to your baby, but at the same time you need a lot of support. So yeah, I guess it was pretty hard for everyone on that space.

Avery:

I think you had pandemic shock and culture shock all at the same time, right? And we use that term culture shock. But I think what you said is a really great point because some cultures are very, very community and family-based, and Latin cultures are like that. You live with your family, you live around your family, you're immersed in your family, and that can certainly pose its own challenges if you're trying to carve out some independence.

But on the same token, cultures like the Canadian culture and largely in the United States as well, we don't have a community-based culture. We have a very every man for themself-based culture.

Julia:

Yeah. And I guess when it comes to actually breastfeeding, nobody can come to your house. Right? The rules were pretty strict, at least in Canada. So, everything was by video. And I do understand a lot of things that now obviously they can go virtual or in person, but I will say, I'm pretty sure I will never know, but I'm pretty sure that it will be a completely different story if I was capable to have my lactation consultant right by my side, showing me how to do it, by helping me go through the process.

I did a lot of consultations. I actually did your program, which actually, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and actually that was pulling me out of that dark side of breastfeeding. But I will say, we had a pretty rough path for three months. It was just nonsense. It was pretty challenging for me, for my husband, a lot of stress, baby didn't get enough food. It's just all these thoughts coming from everywhere and at the same time you're feeling, sorry, like shit, because that's the truth. You're bleeding, you're not sleeping, and your baby is not getting food either. It's just like you feel like you're not doing anything right. Right?

Yeah. And again, I feel like ... And you're lonely. You're lonely on this path, as a mom. My husband, thank God, he's extremely supportive. I cannot be more grateful. But at the same time, and I know that maybe a lot of moms will agree on this, even they can see and they can understand, and they can't, if you know what I mean? You are the only one that are physically experiencing all these changes in your body, all this pain, all this hormonal ... It's just, postpartum is like, welcome. I don't even know how to describe it. It's just a lot, I guess.

And at the same time, I feel like after this first pregnancy, you think a lot of stuff, and even my husband said the same, nobody prepares us to be a parent. Right? Nobody tell you, not even in school, they don't teach this stuff. It's life-changing. Nobody knows. And you can read and you can prepare yourself, take some courses, whatever, but at the end of the day when you're on the raw reality, it's like holy moly.

Even my husband said, we saw a documentary or he saw a documentary about Will Smith or something like that. And he said when he was leaving the hospital, he was shocked because he said even when you bought a TV, they gave you a manual with 1,000 pages how to use a TV. And you go outside of the hospital with a new brand baby and they don't tell you anything. It's like, "Hey, congratulations, go home." Right? So, it's just crazy.

Avery:

I remember with my oldest when they were like, "Okay, it's time to go home." I was like, "What do you mean? I don't know how to take care of this thing. What are you talking about? What am I supposed to do next?"Julia:

Absolutely, "I'm not ready."

Avery:

Yeah. And even if you do all of the classes, you still don't feel ready.

Julia:

That was my feeling. Actually, and there was a little bit of maybe frustration because actually two of my best friends, one is a doula and another one is a consultant of a lactation. And I wasn't close to them. Right? It was like, oh my god, seriously, my two best friends, they could be here helping me, but they can't.

And yeah, just you're never ready. I took the courses with them, but again, when you are day to day dealing with everything, even that theory basically goes away. I don't even know. You're trying to remember, but it's just everything is blurry, I will say. You are not sleeping well. And that's another thing that I thought it was a pretty big challenge for us. And yeah, I was just driving my baby today and I was thinking about our conversation today and I was like, yeah, that was a pretty dark stage for me.

Avery:

Yeah. And I think to your point earlier of just having someone come to your house, I think it's just sitting with you and being in that space and telling you that it's going to be okay in a way that isn't like, "Just push through, it'll be better." Because that idea that you just keep pushing through and doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results, I think is pretty prevalent in the postpartum care world.
But someone who can just sit with you and just let you emotionally have the moments that you need, to let you get to the other side of things. Because the only way through that ... I mean, I think the only way to the other side is through it, right? You have to just get through the first three months.

Julia:

Yeah. And it was as you said, yeah, I feel that that piece for me was extremely important just because how I was raised and all these values and all this culture around myself. And I do remember also, I was so stressed that I do remember having a big contracture on all my neck, all my arms. It was so much tension every time that I was trying to feed my baby, because everything that was happening around us, I'm talking about my husband, Charlie and I, she wasn't getting enough milk, so my husband was stressed, I was stressed. Then our midwife was like, "Well, you give a formula or literally you're not being my patient anymore." So, it was like, "Oh my God."

And you feel like all of that, it's obviously on you and you want the best for your baby and all these expectations ... Because obviously before Charlie was born, I was all the time, "I'm going to breastfeed her until two." So, I felt also like that was a huge mistake, having high expectations of something that I never did in my life. I didn't know where I was going to. And I was very, I wouldn't say stubborn, or maybe a little bit, but I wasn't able to be a little bit more flexible to understand what was happening to her and to me.
And I feel like a moment of truth on this breastfeeding journey was when the midwife told me, "Your baby is on a stage in danger. You're seriously putting your baby in danger because she's not growing and if you are not accepting that she needs food, your baby's going to have serious..." I don't even remember at that point, "brain damage." Something around her body. And I was feeling a lot of guilt.

It's just, nobody tells you this. That was another thing that I was pretty angry, nobody wants to share this awful stuff that could happen so other moms can be prepared and other moms can be aware that if this happen, it's okay, you have options. And I feel that actually one of my friends told me, "Julia, you just need to be flexible. If this is the best for your family..." Because obviously my husband was supportive, but at that point was like, "I'm sorry, Julia, I know that you want to breastfeed Charlie, but enough is enough. You have been trying. You can't feed her. She's hungry like crazy. The baby won't stop crying all day long."

And it's just you fighting, right? Fighting like a warrior because you want to do the best for the baby, but at the same time, not having, I don't know, that light of when to stop, right?

Avery:

Yeah.

Julia:

When to shift. Even though you want the best, maybe breastfeeding is not the best for that baby in particular, right?

Avery:

Yeah.

Julia:

You're doing your best.

Avery:

I think we need to say that. I think everybody's scared to say breast is not best. Lactation consultants are scared to say it. Everybody's scared to say it because we're scared that if we say that, moms won't do it, that we don't trust women that they would feed their baby in the way that felt authentically right to them unless it was the best way. And I think it's because we make it so hard for women to be able to get the support that they need. That way feels so impossible. So, the only way to do it is for me to really keep pushing through, because I perceive that it's best, instead of figuring out how to make that way accessible for everybody and trusting that women will step into it because there's an emotional component to it. There's an innate component to it that lots of women feel very compelled and very driven to try breastfeeding or to breast or chest feed because there's something about it that we're wired to do as mammals. Right?

And the narrative that breast is best makes it so much harder if you need to pivot away from that, if something else is best for the baby, because you feel like you are then not giving them their best, you're not capable of being the best, you're not capable of giving enough, when you alone are enough. You are what your baby needs, and then we can feed them too.

Julia:

Exactly. And I feel on our particular case, I just said all this pressure coming from everywhere, right? Like you just said, lactation consultants, social media, yourself with those expectations. But at the very end, I was feeling that my dream of breastfeeding my baby actually was pulling apart my baby and my entire family. So, I was like, "This is not right. I know that I want to. I really try. I try very hard." And at the very end, there's a happy ending here. At the very end when I took your course and you were teaching us all this stuff, I was capable to go through those pretty ... I don't know if, as I said, it's pretty blurry, but I guess maybe the first two months, three months, it was pretty challenging.

And then when we were doing both breastfeeding and we were bottlefed the baby. And again, all this, "It's the latch, it's the latch, it's the latch." And you're like, "Come on, give me a break. I know it's a latch, but the baby doesn't latch. Truly, I'm trying everything." And my nipples were bleeding. I remember myself being completely naked walking on the house because I was bleeding down. I was bleeding on the top. It's just so much pain and I'm feeling and struggling. I want to feed my baby. And I do remember crying every time that I was holding Charlie because I was in pain. I wanted to feed her, but I was bleeding everywhere. And it was basically, you'd be scared every time that it was feeding time. It was like, "Oh no, please, no, not again." But you know that you need to do it.

And I do remember that a friend, that actually one of my courses that I took, she sent a message when I shared, "I'm really struggling here." She sent me privately a message. And that message has also I think changed my journey because she said, "Julia, I was the same as you. My nipples were destroyed. I was bleeding like crazy. Hold tight." She said to me, "Hold tight. I swear you will get this through." She said, "Now I'm okay. I'm on month four." Or, something like that. I don't even remember. That's why I know that it was maybe two or three months that they were completely horrible.
But when she told me and she shared, "I'm on the same path with you and I'm bleeding, I'm doing this, and I'm feeling the exact same things as you are feeling." That empathy and that connection with her ... I never met her in person in my life because we took this course online together about motherhood. And that connection, I feel also that changed my life because I was like, "Okay, I am not crazy. I am feeling like we are the same."

And suddenly and again, after your course, everything is starting to improve slowly, slowly, slowly. I would love obviously to breastfeed Charlie for longer. We couldn't. She obviously with the bottle, she wanted the milk easier every time. So, I think we reached the eighth-month mark and she was like, "Not anymore. I want my milk faster."
But at the very end it's like looking back, I felt like I did what I needed to do at that point with all those bumps in the road, finally ... And it was sad, because when we crossed that bridge, it was just a magical moment when my nipples were okay and we were connected and I was relaxed. It was my me time with her. It was mommy and baby time. Right? It was the opposite. It was light and feeling blessed and feeling grateful to be actually hold my baby, feeling her, and she didn't want anymore. But it is just like that learning. I don't know if we are having another kid or not, but it's like, you got this, you really got this. Maybe you will have dark times, maybe you won't, but there will always a happy ending to that story.

Avery:

And can we celebrate that you fed her for eight months and you fed her in the beginning when you needed to. So, you not only listened to your gut and gave your baby extra calories, but that didn't disrupt your feeding relationship. You got to do both. You fed your baby all the calories that she needed and you kept breastfeeding her for eight more months.

Julia:

Yeah. Yeah. I guess, you don't even realize you ... And usually I think in life we don't stop to actually, as you said, recognize ourselves, like, "I did this." Right? Even if it was two months, even if it was three months, there's no perfect path for anything, I will say. Every child will be different. Right? So yeah, you just need to embrace what is coming in that moment.

Avery:

I love that. And can you want to talk about your relationship with your ... I think that's the other thing that isn't talked about is how a new baby can really cause strain on a relationship, especially if you both don't have the same goal or the same philosophy or the same approach collaboratively together. Did having those struggles bring you closer to your husband or did it drive you apart for a while and you had to find your way back?

Julia:

What I found ... And I mean, I feel it's not just breastfeeding, I feel it's everything, right? Education, values, food, everything about how to raise a human being. And that was another advice from another unknown person. I mean on this journey, you start finding your tribe. So, this girl, Monica, was very collaborative in a chat with hundreds of moms, I don't know how many we are. And she said this very thing from the beginning, "You guys need to be on the same path on everything."

And even though my husband, as I repeat, he's extremely supportive. Everything that I said, "Okay, let's do it. Let's try it." He never questioned anything. But I feel the same. I feel like maybe I'm just talking about us. I don't know if this is on every relationship, but I was the one that I was taking the courses about breastfeeding. I was the one that I was taking the courses about baby-led weaning. I was the one that I was taking about the courses like temper tantrums. Right? So, I'm just passing to him all this information to digest.

And even though I will say I am very fortunate the husband that I have, because obviously he will do what I say, and not in that terms. But I will say, still there's times I feel that all these courses are market for women. So, that's a business opportunity here, that I just realized. They're just market for women. So, the ones that we are more engaged and more knowledgeable about everything from the very beginning, or before birth actually, it's us. So, it's a lot of responsibility, I will say.

So, even though he was, again, supportive all this time, he didn't ... It's not understand. I don't even ... Connect. I don't know. For example, when I was like, "We need to feed the Charlie with the spoon because otherwise she's going to get used to the nipple." Or just little fights like, "I don't want to give my baby the pacifier because that will interrupt the breastfeeding." And I was trying to explain to her over and over again, "Why not? Why not? Why not?" He won't understand that. Even though I was showing basically, "This is the curve, this is here." Sending him notes like, "Look at this article. Look at this. The information is here, the data is here." And he won't get it.

He will support me because I was saying that, but he was like, "I don't understand. I'm just doing whatever you tell me to do." And then when we crossed that bridge, for example, the pacifier and specifically, he was like, "Oh, you were right. I'm so glad that we never did the pacifier." And I was like, "Yeah, why you didn't get it on the very first place?" Right?

So, I guess that now I'm telling you, it sounds super easy, but it wasn't at that point. It was truly convince him of all the science on all the things that I was studying for months every day, reading everywhere, documenting myself. And as I said, and I repeat this again and again because I love my husband and he is the best man I ever met, but it's hard for them to actually process all this information because they don't have ... Or, I don't want to generalize, but I feel that it would be a lot of husbands, they won't have this curiosity or ... I don't know how to say, this, yeah, curiosity like, "Oh, I will search, what's breastfeeding?" Or, "I will search about why pacifiers are not good for my babies." Right?

It's like, the women, we are always responsible of all these processes that are happening in a fast-paced ... Then you look and your baby's three weeks and they need another stuff and then they are six months and then they need another stuff. I feel like that my first baby ... And I wish it's not the only one, so I can do better with the second one, but it was, because I said nobody told you these things and they said like, "Oh, you go with your instincts." No, that's not true. You truly need to study. That's the other thing. It is like, "Oh, it's just your instincts that you will know what to do." No, you won't.
So please, yes, study and document yourself, because there's a lot of things happening on your baby's brain, on your baby's development, on yourself. So, it's a lot to take in. That's the way that I live that path. And I will say that communication with your partner is crucial. And Fengo, he was seriously following everything that I do or told him, but it's that, I feel like we actually need to do a better job as a community to attract all men to actually getting more involved, having this knowledge about what's happening with baby, what's happening with the mom, right? It's just a lot, I guess.

Avery:

Yeah. And I think it's really important that we give ourself credit for the emotional labor that all of that learning takes, right? That's the invisible labor part of being a new mom and being a parent, that nobody counts as labor because it's not paid in dollars, right? But having to learn those things, having to know, "Do I go to a doctor's appointment? Have I scheduled that? What vaccinations am I going to give? What's my first food? What's my baby eaten today? How long has they been asleep?"

All of those things, they take a lot of resources for our body to process and to think of, and when we don't recognize that labor for work, then we wonder why we're tired all the time and then feel like we're not doing enough, when really, we're doing so much more than we give ourselves credit for, and our partners can help in that labor too.Julia:

Yeah. I think we are warriors.

Avery:

Absolutely.

Julia:

Yeah. Yeah. I do remember also my husband was like, "You're all the time in your phone." "Yes. I'm trying to understand what's happening with the baby, with myself. I'm researching. I don't have this knowledge. I don't have the tools. This is my first time and yours too."

I mean, now again, I am super grateful that everything work perfectly fine for us and my baby, it's a healthy baby. She has tons of energy. She's amazing. But yeah, I will say that I will do things slightly different if I have another chance. And especially because I was so tired, I was in so much pain that I feel that I didn't even enjoy that glorious newborn stage, right? When you're supposed to be, I don't know, just different.

If I have another baby, I'll just be napping with him or with her all the time. And with Charlie, I was like, "Oh no, please take the baby. I can't." Right? "I need to air my nipples. I need to take a break. I need to rest my shoulders." Everything was so tense in my body. So, I feel that I have a little bit of more knowledge if I have another chance, to actually enjoy those months that they are precious. Right? Having a newborn is just 28 days, I don't know how many, and then two months and then three months, and they're like two years old and it's like, "Where's my baby?"

Avery:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your experience in such an honest way with new parents. And as we wrap this up, if you have one final piece of advice for anybody listening right now, what would it be?

Julia:

I'll say, just go with the flow and don't set expectations. And that's another thing, I don't have more kids, but even for people that have two or three kids, everything around that pregnancy and everything around that breastfeeding path could be completely different on each children, because your economic situation, because the stress that you're living in, because your husband has a work or a job, or don't. There's so many pieces that can influence the way that you are living every postpartum and every maternity and everything. So, just release everything. Just go with the flow and try to enjoy it the most that you can that stage.

Avery:

Thank you so much for sharing.

Julia:

No, thank you, Avery. I hope this helps another mom to be more flexible and to, I guess, accept what is happening, right? Accept it and recognize, as you said, I feel like recognize, as you said, "I'm doing great and everything that I'm doing is enough for this."

Avery:

Absolutely.

Do you have a story to tell? If your feeding experience has been transformative for you and you'd like to share it with others, then please let us know. We're always looking for new stories to let other people know what's possible. Just send your name and a short overview of your journey or even just your words of wisdom for new parents to stories@nourishedyoung.com.

And if you need support or want to connect with other parents who understand what you're going through, then make sure you head over to nourishedyoung.com and check out the Nourished Young community, so we can help support you in your journey too.