Today, I'll be chatting with Kait, as she shares her challenges of navigating a breastfeeding relationship that didn't work out exactly how she initially planned. Kait opens up about the emotional rollercoaster brought by societal expectations that weigh on new mothers, and how she ended up in a place where she felt at peace with her journey.
Episode Highlights:
(02:50 - 03:53) Kait shares her struggles in balancing her career and breastfeeding her newborn baby
(07:38 - 08:55) Kait talks about how she challenged societal pressure and how she felt more empowered when she decided to let it go
(13:13 - 15:34) Alexis sharing her advice on making what is here work and giving yourself permission to feel multiple feelings at the same time
Do you have a story to tell?
If your breastfeeding experience has been transformative for you and you'd like to share it with others, then please let us know! We're always looking for new stories to let other people know what's possible. Just send your name and a short overview of your journey, or even just your words of wisdom for new parents.
Also, if you need support and want to connect with other parents who understand what you're going through, check out the Nourished Young Community so we can help support you on your journey.
Visit www.nourishedyoung.com to learn more.
Today, I'll be chatting with Kait, as she shares her challenges of navigating a breastfeeding relationship that didn't work out exactly how she initially planned. Kait opens up about the emotional rollercoaster brought by societal expectations that weigh on new mothers, and how she ended up in a place where she felt at peace with her journey.
Episode Highlights:
(02:50 - 03:53) Kait shares her struggles in balancing her career and breastfeeding her newborn baby
(07:38 - 08:55) Kait talks about how she challenged societal pressure and how she felt more empowered when she decided to let it go
(13:13 - 15:34) Alexis sharing her advice on making what is here work and giving yourself permission to feel multiple feelings at the same time
Do you have a story to tell?
If your breastfeeding experience has been transformative for you and you'd like to share it with others, then please let us know! We're always looking for new stories to let other people know what's possible. Just send your name and a short overview of your journey, or even just your words of wisdom for new parents.
Also, if you need support and want to connect with other parents who understand what you're going through, check out the Nourished Young Community so we can help support you on your journey.
Visit www.nourishedyoung.com to learn more.
Hi, I'm Avery Young, and this is The Nourished Young Podcast.
From the subway train to the soccer field, everywhere I go people have a story to tell me about their experience feeding and caring for their new baby. And so I decided it was time to amplify those voices so we can all know what's real and what's possible, and make those who are beginning their parenting journey feel a little less alone.
Today I am going to be talking with Kait, as she shares her challenges of navigating a breastfeeding relationship that didn't work out exactly how she initially planned, and how she ended up in a place where she felt at peace with her journey. Anyway, hi, Kait, and welcome to The Nourished Young Podcast. I'm so happy to have you here.
Kait:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to get to share my story and my kids' story, and really happy to be here.
Avery:
Why don't you just start by telling everyone a little bit about yourself?
Kait:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, my name is Kait. I live here in Decatur, Georgia. My husband Ben and I have been together for almost 15 years, been married for almost 10. Always knew we wanted kids and we're blessed with our first, Rose, in 2018, and then our second, Simon, in 2022.
I have been a working mom the whole time, which has definitely colored my nursing and breastfeeding and feeding experience. And I had the immense pleasure of meeting Avery, you, when I was with Dr. Doyle at Oakhurst Pediatrics in Decatur. We still are, and she's wonderful. And she said, "Hey, I have a lactation consultant on staff, and she can come on in right after your appointment." I was like, "Oh, thank goodness." And so that's how your and I journey began, but it continued for both of my kids and I'm really grateful to get to share some of that story today.
Avery:
Tell us a little bit about your feeding struggles. Was it easy for you or was it hard?
Kait:
Oh my gosh, it was so hard. It was so hard. If anyone listening here hears me say nothing else, just normalizing that, I think you always did such a good job of saying this is such a complex experience. And I think society and literature and movies does a really great job of making it seem not that. There's this narrative of why would you buy formula when you have a free option, you have the milk in your body. It's like, it's not that easy.
And I'll say too, for some background, I grew up around women who were proudly nursing everywhere. They'd pop a boob out at a restaurant, no problem. And I just found that so beautiful and I always wanted that for myself, always. So it was never a question for me I would nurse my kids. And when I realized I was loving my career too and that my path looked a little different than I thought it would, and full love and respect to the stay-at-home parents out there, but I knew I was the best mom that I could be to my kids when I was working.
That was the first level of peacemaking, of like, "Okay, so I can't bring my baby to nurse at work. What would that look like," to have a feeding relationship when I'm working 40 hours a week? So that was already causing some anxiety, but all the way up until labor with my first, Rose, I had that vision of being that mom in that restaurant, popping her boob out, just proudly nursing anytime, anywhere, attachment parenting. And I thought I had it figured out.
And then I had her. And reality is sometimes different, and you said this so beautifully too, Avery, of just, I would never wish anything different because that would mean a different kid. And I can't imagine that. She is just such an incredible, magical human and she's thriving and healthy and that is what matters. And we have such a beautiful connected relationship.
And from day one, it was just not in the cards, and I fought it, but as was explained to me by a couple lactation consultants early on, we had the trifecta of mouth issues. Rose had a short tongue, a high palette, and I had a short nipple, and it just anatomically was not a match. And I was so devastated that I do think there was a while where I was connecting with her, but I think I wasn't connecting with the idea of a relationship with her that wasn't as much nursing because I just was so attached to that.
And I think that did hold me up a little bit. Thank goodness it didn't impact our bond, but it complicated things for me emotionally and logistically, just like, "No, we have to do this." So we did the tongue-tie procedure, and I don't regret those things because I think we did everything in our control. But I vividly remember the first session with you, Avery, again, when we were at the pediatrician and you walked in and I was like, "Oh, thank goodness."
And my husband and I both were sitting there, we were exhausted. We had tried every position, we had tried all the diets. It was just, we were so beyond our limit and we didn't understand how we were supposed to move forward. And I was so upset because I knew I had X number of weeks before I went to work and nursing wouldn't be an option every day. So I felt this pressure to master it, even though none of my facts were saying that it was even possible to do that.
And so I just remember you came in and you just first normalized, "Look, this is hard, and it's okay that it's hard. And let's think about what you do have control over." And so you helped us come up with a rhythm. But I think the most important thing is you helped us recognize that it's just about a fed baby, and happy, healthy, thriving, that's what matters. And it's not about how you get there. And so I think the first peace acceptance for me was, "Okay, there's nursing and there's breastfeeding. My baby can be breastfed if I am pumping," and I can say that anytime I want. And I think that offered some real peace for me.
And so for about six months, I exclusively pumped. And hindsight being 20/20, I realized I really struggled with that and it really caused some grief of ... I remember sitting one time pumping, and my baby was in her car seat crying, wanting food. And it was such a devastating moment for me because I wanted so badly to just put her on my breast, and I couldn't, and I knew that that wouldn't work for us. And so I was sitting there pumping, thinking she needs her breast milk.
And so I think that, again, hindsight 20/20, it's one of those ... I could have let that go and said, I could have my sweet, cuddly moments with her, giving her a bottle. And that's just as beautiful and it won't impact our relationship. It won't make her less healthy. But I think I really did have it in my head. Again, thanks media, thanks society, saying that breast milk is just essential.
And I think at the end of the day too, a lot can be said about your mental health and when you're in a place where you feel like you're constantly under pressure. And I was at work basically in a closet pumping four times a day. I was never getting enough milk, that was also another struggle. And I think that, again, hindsight, I don't regret anything, but I think that I could have made a more empowered choice to let that go and just look at the reality in front of me.
Avery:
I think that is such an important story. And I think the message of society is so harsh to moms, because there's, like you said, there's this underlying message that the only right way, the best to feed is through breast milk alone.
But at the same time, society allows all of these hurdles to be put in front of women or feeding parents to make that true. Whether or not we want to go back to work, whether or not we feel we need to go back to work, whether or not we have to go back to work, how we get support, how we get understanding, the accessibility to do those things, all of those things make it really difficult for women to be successful in what society tells us that we're supposed to do. And then what happens is we internalize all of that as a failure on our part, and then it just makes us feel awful. And then we lose that ability to really authentically enjoy that newborn period with our babies.
Kait:
That's exactly right. And I don't know if you remember, but I came to see you, I'm sure you do, but when I was pregnant with Simon and I was just dead set. I was like, "This story is going to be different," but I was carrying all that grief and weight. "It has to be this." And I think it was already coloring what the newborn experience was going to be because I was putting all this pressure on it to, "Hey, I heard from all these people and all these books, that second baby, you get more milk. It is just going to be easier."
And I love, love, love how you said, "You know what, it's okay to, say, Rose, thinking about just what a ... Look at that kid. She's so happy and healthy and thriving and you can honor what that story looked like. And it's okay to close that chapter of your breastfeeding, of your motherhood, and allow this to be its own new experience." And that was so freeing of just, this is another kid, this is another pregnancy, another labor experience. And goodness knows, it was. And that was so freeing.
And you said that, again, that line I think about all the time, of making choices from a place of empowerment instead of pressure or instead of expectation. And so for me, what that looks like is just I acknowledged ... I love if it would work out, nursing, and it did with Simon for a while. And then we learned he wasn't gaining enough weight and we had to make some adjustments. But I did get a really beautiful nursing experience with him, and I'm always going to be so grateful for that. It wasn't as long as I would've wanted, but it was from the place of empowerment of we continued for as long as it felt really good and nourishing for both of us.
And then when it got to a point where I was having to alter my diet so extremely to get him that breast milk, I was off gluten, off nuts, off beans, off dairy, which we can all do the math, that leaves very little. And it was putting me in, again, that place of just so much pressure and strictness. I was putting more attention on what I was eating and putting in my body than I was in those moments with him. And that's when it was like, "Okay." Or this is the place of empowerment, is saying to myself, "I can release this too," and I need to be able to nourish myself and not have to think ... I've got two kids, I'm working full time, I can't keep putting together this plan for meals that is this limiting.
And so again, it was just all about that place of empowerment. And just like you said, without necessarily resources and people giving me that supportive message, I've been so fortunate in that my employer did have a great lactation policy. I had a great pediatrician, I had you, I had my husband, I had my community. But even with all of that, it was so hard. Yeah.
Avery:
Yeah. I mean, and I think that that's such a good point. Even when you do all the right things, even when you have all the right support, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have the outcome that you initially thought that you would have, the one that you thought was the ideal outcome, because life doesn't work like that.
And I also wanted to mention something that you touched in about empowerment, because I think it's really important that empowerment doesn't mean we get to choose our destiny, it means we get to choose how we play the cards that were dealt. Sometimes those cards might be, "I have a low supply," but I still get to make the best choice for my body with the cards that I have, instead of making choices based on what somebody else tells me that I'm supposed to be doing.
Kait:
Yes, exactly. That is nail on the head. And I think what it sort of evolved for me, and I think about it with almost every hard thing that I deal with in life at this point, is the difference between saying, "It is what it is," and saying, "Look, it would be great if the reality was different." Oh man, it would be awesome if it could have been as easy and beautiful and magical as I wanted, but that's not what happened. And there's a point where you have to say, "I have to respond to the reality in front of me. I can't keep laboring against this thing that isn't real." And there's so much beauty in the reality that's in front of you. And so when you can really stop and just recognize that and be so radically present, it just really wonderful things happen.
And so I think I'm so living into that. I feel like it started with that message that you said, coming from that place of empowerment. And just like you said so beautifully, that doesn't mean you get to choose everything, but it means you look realistically at what has been provided, what is here, and you work with that and you just make your choices from there. And that's just such a wonderful, powerful place to come from.
Avery:
And I also think that one of the keys for empowerment is giving yourself permission to feel multiple feelings at the same time. I can feel grief that my pathway didn't work out like I wanted it to, at the same time that I can hold peace that I've gotten to make the decisions that work for me in this moment. And that is such an important ... The ability of humans to feel multiple complex emotions at the same time is part of our human experience.
Kait:
Absolutely.
Avery:
And it's only a problem if that grief prevents us from being able to find that beauty and find that peace in the alternative pathway that we find ourself on.
And I think it matters. And I think it's so important that women give ourself permission to grieve, because so many women do have a loss of what they thought this period would look like, of what society told them that motherhood would look like. And then they had this expectation of what it would be like and what it would feel like, and then it didn't happen. It didn't work out the way that they thought that it would, and they felt like they were missing something. They have to let go of what they thought that would look like to be able to embrace what it looks like instead.
But we have to be able to give ourself permission to not "yeah, but" ourself. Like, "Yeah, but my baby's healthy. Yeah, I can feel those things because my baby's happy."
Kait:
Right, yes, yes.
Avery:
Instead, I can say, "Yeah, I can feel those things and I can be grateful at the same time," because we can have all those feelings all at once.
Kait:
Yes. And isn't that adulthood in a nutshell? I feel like I'm constantly ... Like you said, it's a human experience. It's not just an adult experience, but I feel like the most emotionally intelligent, compassionate, empathetic, mature people that I know, you included, will recognize that both [inaudible 00:15:32], and that there can be a gift in that in between and recognizing two things at once.
And I think there are many of us, especially in our generation, trying to have that conversation with our kids of like, "Hey, I see you're so disappointed we didn't get to do this thing that you wanted to do, and that stinks. I hate when things don't go the way that I want. And we were so excited about that." And just letting that be true, but also holding space for, "What can we do that might be fun," and not trying to pretend that the bad thing didn't happen or that we're not disappointed, but, "What can we do now?"
And it's so wonderful to see what that can create and just ... I'm hopeful that our kids, who are learning this from an early age, can find that peace a little more readily as they get older and problems become so much more complex.
Avery:
I think that's one of the most amazing things about this new generation of parents is our recognition of, as a society, starting to trickle in that emotional ... That it's not innate, lots of us weren't ... Emotional intelligence, emotional relationships, the relationship that we have with our feelings in a healthy way, isn't something that is innate, it's something that is learned. And I don't think it's ever been anything that's really been taught to children. It certainly wasn't taught to me, my parents didn't have the skillset to do that. And I love so much how this is being brought to the mainstream of our kids, to teach our kids how to be okay with themself.
And so much of what you were saying was just feeling heard. Everybody wants to feel heard. And I think it's so easy to not let ourself feel heard. And that's internally. That's that whole "yeah, but" ourself, is we're not even hearing ourself, we're not giving ourself permission to hold that space. And we would do that for somebody else.
Kait:
Yes, yes. Without question. Yeah.
Avery:
And the way that we really truly teach our children emotional intelligence or emotional relationships is to learn it ourself, and it's a lifelong work.
Kait:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Avery:
Yeah, it's hard for me. I mean, it's definitely something ... And I think it also is really important that we give ourself and our children the grace that my ability to recognize and honor my own emotions depends on how much resources I have. Some days I have no space for that.
Kait:
Absolutely. Yes, it's so true. And being honest with them about that, like you said, of just ... I've tried to give myself permission to vocalize when I need a moment or when I need physical space. My sister-in-law, who I adore, models that really well, and we always learn our best things from other moms, which is one of the reasons I love that you're doing this podcast. And other parents, we see them do something and we go, "I love that."
But we were at dinner one night and her five-year-old wanted to sit in her lap, and she just said, "You know what? I love you so much, I would love to cuddle later. I need a moment. I need some time to eat my food and enjoy my meal and give my body that space." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, that is amazing." And I used it later that night, and I think I was telling myself the story, as we do as parents, that when our kids need us, we need to be available.
And there's a lot of beauty in that, but I think we can also trust ourselves that when it's a moment where it's so sweet, they want to cuddle with us, but maybe we really do need that space. We are touched out, we are exhausted, and we just need to eat our food. And that child is safe and healthy and they will be perfectly okay to sit in their own chair and eat their own food and cuddle later. We can trust ourselves to assess whether that can wait or if they're really in their grief and we feel like we can meet them there and we can hold them, awesome.
And I definitely, even saying that out loud, I feel some mom shame and guilt of like, "Oh, no, people are going to hear that and I think I'm not cuddling my kid when they want it." But I think again, it's just so important because we're human beings too. And if we're not allowing ourselves to do the things that help us function and feel okay, first of all, we're not able to take care of our kids, but we're also not modeling for them what it looks like to be a healthy human being and have those healthy relationships.
I think it's just really dawned on me that one of the best gifts I can give, my daughter especially, is to show her part of being an adult woman is to give yourself that empowerment, again, of just like, "I'm going to take care of myself. I'm going to prioritize things like eating, taking showers," which by the way is not self-care, it's just maintenance. "But I'm going to see myself as a human being in and of myself and also as a mother to you." But I think that's been a really wonderful part of our journey, is seeing that play out.
Avery:
And what if we could trust that our children can recognize that, right? That's what emotional learning is, is that our children learn that me holding a boundary isn't a personal affront to you.
Kait:
Exactly.
Avery:
It's not because I don't love you, it's because this is what I need. And it really helps our children be able to internalize their ability to have their boundaries too.
Kait:
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. One thing my husband and I have always done and been so important to us is to tell our kids, I mean, Simon is too young to really internalize us, but Rose definitely has, of you don't have to hug people if you don't want to. You don't have to touch anyone that you don't want to. And same for those other people, you respect their space as well so we ask before we wrestle or tackle.
And I have family members, very traditional Southern family members that I adore, but who will get very upset, and they'll say, "She's not hugging me." And I'll say ... And you know what's funny? We're having to do the both [inaudible 00:21:38]. I'm saying to them, "Oh, I know that's hard. And it's really important to us that she feels like she gets to choose." And especially just with our girls and our boys of whatever our kids look like and grow to be, it's just essential that they know that. And I think that's the foundation of consent right there.
Avery:
Yeah, I love that. And if you had one final piece of advice for folks listening right now, what would it be?
Kait:
Oh my goodness. I think I would just want people to give themselves grace and whatever that looks like for them. One thing that has worked really well for me, wasn't my idea, my therapist told me to do it, was make a shortlist of things that make you feel good. And if you're in a rut and you just don't know what to do, just do them. Don't think about it, just go through your list. Go for a walk, take your bubble bath, whatever you need to do.
Sometimes that's not possible. We have two kids, we're working or whatever's going on, we can't go through our list and that's okay too. So ask yourself, "What does grace look like in this moment? Can I just stop and take a breath? Is everything happening on my schedule today truly essential to happen today?" And just giving yourself grace that your best today may not look like your best yesterday or tomorrow, and that is okay.
And I think something you said that was so wonderful, and I think about all the time, Avery, is just because something was working really, really well last week and isn't working this week, doesn't mean that we failed. Our kids are changing. We're changing. Especially in those wild, precious, chaotic first couple of months and first of couple years really, but they are changing so fast and our bodies are changing so fast. Whether we had the baby through a cesarean birth or had the baby through a vaginal birth, whatever that looks like, our bodies are trying to heal and we're trying to understand how to live in this body that we have now that's so different from what it was.
And so it's so easy to say, "Oh my gosh, this breastfeeding position or this nap routine was working great last week and it's not this week. What did I do wrong?" And I think what you did so great was create space for that. "Look, let's give ourselves some grace. Everyone's changing," and that's what they're supposed to do. Babies are supposed to grow and we're supposed to evolve ourselves, and that's okay. And I think about that with all kinds of situations. When relationships hit a space where we realize they're not healthy anymore, or maybe even not just healthy, but we're just at different parts of life, we can honor, "You know what? That was a wonderful friendship or that was a wonderful relationship at the time, and it's not anymore. And that's okay." And that doesn't take away from how beautiful and important and valuable it was then.
And so I think I would just say, just recognize that change doesn't mean you have failed and that you are allowed to look at the cards that are presented and come from that place of empowerment, and that you're going to be okay. I don't know if it gets easier, but it gets more manageable, I think I would want to make sure people hear that. You will find your way, Scout's honor. I promise.
Avery:
I love that. That is amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story and your experience with everyone listening.
Kait:
Oh, thank you. I can't tell you how happy I am that you're doing this. I just wish so much that younger mama Kait had you early on and had a podcast like this. These are the conversations and stories people need to hear, and I'm really happy you're doing this. Honored to be here.
Avery:
And to everyone listening, thank you so much for joining in, and I hope you'll tune back in next week.
Do you have a story to tell? If your feeding experience has been transformative for you and you'd like to share it with others, then please let us know. We're always looking for new stories to let other people know what's possible. Just send your name in a short overview of your journey or even just your words of wisdom for new parents to stories@nourishedyoung.com. And if you need support or want to connect with other parents who understand what you're going through, then make sure you head over to nourishedyoung.com and check out the Nourished Young community so we can help support you in your journey too.