Caribbean Folklore: Making a deal with Death told by Kesha Christie

One Caribbean: Exploring Dominican Folklore and Storytelling

In this final folklore episode of this season of The Moreish Podcast, Kesha and Hema celebrate the interconnectedness of Caribbean culture through stories. The episode features a bit of a dark folktale from the Dominican Republic about Joe, a lazy young man who makes a deal with Death to become rich. The story's undertones reflect the island's religious beliefs, and the discussion delves into how such tales highlight the shared yet diverse heritage of the Caribbean. They conclude by reflecting on the deep-rooted cultural ties that make the Caribbean a unique and shared historical experience.

More Caribbean folktales:

A Lizard's Lesson

Pataki Stories from Cuba

Anansi's Antics in Antigua & Barbuda

Trickster Tales

More episodes:

2/3 of Hispaniola: Dominican Republic

Land of High Mountains: Haiti

To learn more about Kesha and her work:

Website

Instagram

TikTok

Walk Good Podcast

Transcript

Kesha:  When we say we are one Caribbean, it's so true, and it's not just, um, we gathered one day and decided we're gonna be one Caribbean because we're in the same vicinity. It's a true line that connects us all and it's, it shows up in our, our beliefs and religion. It shows up in our stories. It shows up in our history. 

Hema: Hi Kesha. We're back for another folklore episode of The Moreish Podcast.

Kesha: Hey Hema, I'm so glad to be here.

Hema: This is going to be our last folklore episode for Season Two, but before we dive into today's story, I wanna take a quick second and talk about some of the things that you've been doing, because I see you all over social media talKing about these great events and storytelling events that you're doing around the Toronto area. So tell me about those.

Kesha: Wow, what isn't happening. So my passion is storytelling, not just from my perspective, but also partnering or collaborating with other storytellers within the GTA, or those that I can get hands on. And, and so, um, I have a project that I'm working on with Caribbean Tallawah, and it's called the Caribbean Storytree.

And so we're getting groups together of multiple generations, just to gather and tell their personal stories. So we start with folktales, get everyone comfortable, and everybody start vibing, and then, you know, the stories come out about cooking, aunties, all kinds of things. And we just create a safe space to have those conversations and share those stories. 

I am also all over social media talking about the power of storytelling and helping others to amplify their voice through telling their story. You might be holding onto it really, really tight, but someone needs to hear it, and how to put that together, as well as celebrating us through our stories, uh, collaborating with groups through Emancipation Day and Caribbean Heritage Month and different things. So I will be on the road sharing stories far and wide. 

I also have a few kids workshops coming up and some adult workshops as well where we're just creating a safe space to be comfortable with our voice and share our stories, and really amplifying Caribbean storytelling because those stories seem to be the hardest to find. I love hearing African stories, but I find that our Caribbean stories, you gotta dig a little bit. So I wanna make it easier to share and find those stories.

Hema: Where can people find out about all of these events if they wanna attend something live or if they just wanna see what you're doing?

Kesha: Absolutely. The best way is to follow me on Instagram at talking T-A-L-K-I-N underscore T-A-L-E-S. Uh, you can also find me on TikTok as well, under the same.

Hema: I imagine some of these kids events are gonna be really great for people as they go into summer holidays.

Kesha: Yes, bring them. 

Hema: So let's dive into our story or our folktale for today.

Kesha: Yes. So today we are travelling to the Dominican Republic. Now I've saved, I think I've saved the Ds for last, but the Dominican Republic has such flavour. I mean, you have the Indigenous peoples, the the Taino people, you have the African influence, as well as the Spanish influences, and stories are a communal activity. They're told when people get together, they're told, uh, spiritual gatherings as well. They're just stories. But what I love about these stories is that they, they're a little dark. And so I've got one for you that I think you might really like.

Hema: All right.

Kesha: So if anyone has asked you, you're cheating Death. Have you ever cheated Death? Let me tell you, there is one man who did. Long before now, there was a young man named Joe. Now Joe was handsome, built strong, but he had one little thing about him. He didn't like to work. He liked to get things done, he liked to spend the money, but he didn't like the work. And people started to buzz around why Joe lazy. Joe's so lazy. And they wondered what was he going to do, 'cause he was a shame to his family. 

There was one person that was watching Joe, like the way that he would get himself in and out of trouble. He fought almost like Anansi, and that was Death. So one day Death pulled Joe aside and said, you know, I can make you rich. I can make you so rich, you wouldn't believe. What do I have to do? Not much. Rich. Not much work. Joe was in. 

So the agreement was this: Death would make Joe a doctor, and anybody that comes through Joe's door, Death will heal. But if Joe were to ever see Death at the head of the bed instead of the foot of the bed, then that meant that Joe could not heal that person. That one was for Death, and Joe would have to walk away. Well, Joe set up his office and word spread widely that Joe could heal anybody. People came from far and wide. The lineups were so long, but all he did was tap, tap, tap, and each person was healed. 

Word spread all the way through the village and further, further away until it touched the castle where the King lived. Now the King had everything that he wanted. Except for one thing. His daughter, she was beautiful, she was smart, but she was so sick. And he had sent to all kinds of countries for every ointment, herb or potion, and none of it worked to heal her. And she was getting worse and worse by the day. So he heard about Joe and called his helpers, Go and bring me the doctor. They went. They got Joe. And Joe walked all the way there walking to the castle, and he's looking at all the things that he's wondering why the King wants to see him. He was nervous, but he went and as he presented in front of the King, the King said, I have a patient for you and I need you to heal my daughter. But know this. You come here today, you heal my daughter, the two of you will marry in all of this be yours. But if you don't, you will die. Well, Joe knew his plan, right? He had a deal with Death, and he knew what was happening. Show me your daughter. 

So the King brought him to the daughter's room, opened the door. The King and Joe stepped in. The King stepped in and looked at his daughter's bed. Joe came in and looked the same way. There was just one problem. When Joe came in and looked, he saw Death at the head of the bed. The King left and closed the door. But Joe was thinking to himself in all the time that he has been dealing with Death, Death has always been at the foot of the bed. But now he's at the head. And if the daughter dies, then and Joe wasn't ready to die, he had a few things he wanted to do and he was still a good-looking chap, you know? 

So he thought for a moment. He knew he had to move fast and he had to think quick. He walked to the edge of the bed, put his hand on the pole at the foot of the bed and spun that bed as hard as he could. He spun it around so that Death was at the foot of the bed, and he was at the head, and just like that, the Princess was healed. He grabbed her hand, ran out of the room, presented her before the King. The King was so overjoyed. His daughter was healed. 

Oh, he sent his people to make arrangements to set up for the wedding the very next day. Joe was happy. Woo. That was a close one. But Joe had to go home and come back the next day for the wedding. So he waited some time and he started to make his way home. And as he headed home, he met someone on the path, someone that he knew very well. Death looked at him and said Huh, that was clever, but since she did not die, you must die. Come with me. And so Death led him off the path and to a place where there seemed to be a red carpet down the middle, and on each side there were these little oil lamps everywhere, all of them lit. Death turned to face Joe, pulled out this lamp, and this lamp was very weak. Very weak. This is your lamp. It has enough life for five minutes. Five minutes? Joe's not gonna be rich? He's not gonna have the Princess? He had to think fast. 

Well, I have a story to tell you, he said to Death. But this story is at least 10 minutes long. Death stood and thought about it, the story could be nice. So he opened his cloak and reached inside, took out a ladle with some oil, opened the lamp and poured in about 10 minutes worth of life. Closed it, put the ladle back, closed his cloak, and waited for the story. 

Joe started to tell his story. Very low and slow, kind of like that story that never has an ending. And Death is hardworking. All of the people that Death has to look over, some to heal, some to take. He walks back and we're tired. So as the story went on and on, Death started to get a little tired, but he wanted to hear the end of the story, so he sat down. He listened to the story, but his eyes were getting heavy, but he wanted to hear the end, so he leaned in, put his hand to his face, and he listened to the story that seemed to be going on and on until Death fell asleep. Joe looked around, he opened the cloak, he took out the ladle, he opened his lamp and he filled it. Right up, up, up, up. Till it was almost overflowing. He put back the ladle. He closed the cloak. He closed the lamp. He took a deep breath and ran away. 

Did he ever marry the princess? He sure did. Where does he live now? They don't live in the castle. They have a, a lovely little home on the other side of the island. I tell you, this is a long story to tell, but you know who told me? It was Joe himself. He put enough oil in that lamp to live forever. 

Hema: This story has so many elements of things that people look for: he's too lazy to work and he wants something pretty quick. Being able to heal somebody, people who wanna believe that they just go to any healer and line up and, and believe wholeheartedly. It feels like a classic tale, but it's very much a Caribbean tale.

Kesha: Yes.

Hema: And Dominican Republic is where this one is from. It feels like it could be told almost anywhere.

Kesha: It can be. Yes. Mm-hmm. So the way that, you could change the story is give it a different island, maybe a different setting, a different name of the person or, you know, just a different, different flavours. There's so many ways that I would take the story and change it for the audience that I'm telling it to, I just wanted to keep it as, here's where it's from. This is the story, and when you hear it again, you might not recognize it.

Hema: You started off by saying it's a bit of a dark story and it is, but then it isn't, because, you know, he gets, he gets the girl in the end. He lives forever. However you feel about living forever.

Kesha: Yeah, but you see if it was, say it was Halloween because the people in this country I live in love Halloween, even though as Caribbean people, we know things go bump in the night every night of the year, um, I would change that story. I would make Death darker, and then I probably wouldn't make it so easy, and leave some reference or some curiosity as to whether Death was really sleeping or if Death came back to remind him of their deal.

Like, you know, I’d change it up a little bit to make it a little darker, just to follow the theme.

Hema: Yeah, and depending on the age of the people that you're telling this to, you probably don't wanna make it darker if it's a bunch of five and six year olds.

What are the origins of the story?

Kesha: So the, the origins of the story is very religious based because the Dominican Republic is a very religious island. And so that there's a, there, there's such a strong belief in the way that they worship and the way that they teach their children and carry on that religion.

So it has that religious aspect and I could change the story and make it more religious-based. And so it's just as one of those stories that could be carried. And it just carries the, the belief, the belief in life and Death, the belief that there's an angel for, loosely, that takes you to the next, to the next place where you're gonna be, takes you to heaven, takes you to whatever your next is, depending on what you believe.

So there's that aspect to it that, that really gives the story it's, but then you have to realize that because of the of people on the island, the story has to kind of represent everyone. So I, I feel like this version of the story makes it inclusive for all.

Hema: The Dominican Republic is one half of the island of Hispaniola, Haiti on the other half. They have such a, the island as a whole, and then each country has such a diverse, rich, storied background. 

Kesha: Yes. Well now you've already mentioned that half the island is Haiti and the other half is Dominican Republic. Now Haiti is French, Dominican Republic, Spanish. So those undertones are so, are deeply rooted.

Hema: And I would think, I could be wrong about this, but I would think that in the Dominican Republic, it feels like it's very, the Spanish influence is very prevalent, whereas in Haiti there's French, but also very strong African influence.

Kesha: Yes, definitely more prominent in Haiti. And, the religion is very, very different and it's just, I guess it's it adds to the beauty and the uniqueness of the people, of who we are and why we are all so closely intertwined, because, there's those deep roots and it, it's not like a straight line. It's this, rollercoaster of or or wa wave of traditions, experiences, and influences that touch all of us as Caribbean people.

Hema: I really have been enjoying these folklore, folktales that you've been telling. And being that this is the last one for Season Two of the podcast, is there anything you wanna share about Caribbean folklore in general? 

Kesha: Caribbean folklore in general, what I find the most interesting is that we have similar beliefs across the Caribbean. For example, there are characters that live on every island in different capacities. I like to think of the soucouyant, I like to think of La Jabless, and even rolling calf, there is a version of this creature that is, that comes for you. Everything goes bump in the night. They're, they're lessons that, they're stories that give  a little more insight in our history and our in influences. So every island has a little bit of a different influence on the story, and you can tell by the language that, that the story is, written in or told in, but they're all like, I could tell that same story in Trinidad that I could tell, you know, in St. Kitts, and I don't have to rephrase it. 

When I think of rolling calf, I think of in Jamaica there's rolling calf. In St. Kitts there's rounce, essentially the same type of creature, the same type of character, um, and the lesson in the story is the same. 

So as much as we are different when we say we are one Caribbean, it's so true, and it's not just, we gathered one day and decided we're gonna be one Caribbean because we're in the same vicinity. It's a true line that connects us all and it's, it shows up in our, our beliefs and religion. It shows up in our stories. It shows up in our history. We may have had colonizers at different times, but the experiences is the same, and it shows up in all our stories, whether it's a trickster tale or whether we're talking about the things that we believe and the things that we fear. They're the same. 

Hema: Much like the history that I've been talking about on this podcast, and and through the food you can see the historical influences. Through these folktales, you can also see the historical influences based on not only the origins of the tales, but how it's been adapted for our Caribbean culture.

Kesha: Absolutely, and I tell, I say in my podcast, every story that I tell comes from a different island. But yes, it does sound Jamaica-fied, if that's a word, because I'm Jamaican, so it will always sound that way. But when you hear the story, we all have that common, even though it's a Jamaican teller, you are hearing a Trinidadian story. You're hearing a Haitian story. You're still hearing it, and in your mind you're probably playing the Creole. You're, you're, you're adding your own little zhuzh, your little spice to make it your own. But it's, it's, it's the ability to plate it and present it that says, yes, I remember that, that's what I'd like to do.

Hema: Yeah, we talk about in our discussions, we talk about the origins of the stories, but in reality for most people, it is just a folktale. It's just a Caribbean folktale. A Trinidadian folktale, a Guyanese folktale, a Jamaican folktale. They're not thinking about the origins, but the way they're hearing it and the, if they're the kind of person that sees images in their mind as they're hearing a story, everybody's images are gonna be slightly different depending on their lived experience.

Kesha: Absolutely we, when we go to an art gallery and we look at that magnificent painting, somebody is seeing a unicorn, someone else is seeing a mother and child, someone is seeing a tree. But it doesn't matter because we're all embracing the beauty of this piece.

Hema: Yeah, you talked about your podcast. Tell us again what your, the name of your podcast is.

Kesha: So my podcast is called Walk Good, African and Caribbean Folktales and Other Stories. And, new episodes are on Tuesdays on a biweekly schedule. Last week's episode was about the Moonlight Carnival in Antigua. It's their last lap for Carnival. Every island has a Carnival. Every island has a last lap. But did you know that Antigua's last lap was done at midnight? So I add a little bit of that, dive into the Antiguan folktale. So whichever piece you're interested in latching onto, whether it's the, let me find out more about that Moonlight Carnival, or, let's dive a little bit deeper into this Anansi stor, nowy that if you see it, it's been presented. You can ask those questions. 

Hema: We are taking a little bit of a break, I am taking a bit of a break from the podcast to talk to some new people, but in the meantime, I'm gonna link down below your podcast, the previous episodes that we've done, and I'm also gonna link the episodes that we've done on the history of Haiti and the history of Dominican Republic.

So there's lots for you to listen to while we take a little bit of a break. And I wanna say thank you so much for joining me for the season of The Moreish Podcast, and I look forward to connecting with you for Season Three.

Kesha: Oh gosh. See you soon. Thank you.