Barbara Moura: Feminist Take On The Old Masters

A painter appears in Vienna with a film degree, a restless curiosity, and no plan to become a painter at all, then ends up building a body of work that stares straight into the canon and talks back. Sitting in her studio, I speak with Barbara Moura about how a self-taught artist finds a voice in a city loaded with art history, and why her canvases feel so charged with story, staging, and emotion.

We dig into her fascination with Old Masters like Caravaggio and Artemisia Gentileschi, and the decision that changes everything: using self-portraiture to place a woman’s face inside masterpieces that have long defined “mastery” as male. We unpack chiaroscuro and the cinematic pull of dramatic light, but also the deeper idea behind it for Barbara: darkness as a universe, a metaphor for shadow work, mystery, and the parts of ourselves we need to face if we want to evolve.

The centrepiece is her major project responding to Caravaggio’s Seven Acts of Mercy. Barbara explains why she calls Caravaggio the punk of the Baroque, how his chaos becomes a mirror for today’s fractured world, and why the acts of mercy still read like an urgent checklist for human life. From mythology as a source of power, to her Danube series that reconnects femininity with nature, to Dante’s Inferno reframed through modern disconnection, this conversation keeps returning to one question: what does it mean to make art that tries to make us more human?

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Transcript

Welcome To Vienna Time

Liudmila Kirsanova 0:02

Hi, it's Vienna Time with Ludmila Kirzanova. For my podcast, I interview artists who live and work in Vienna, a place both grandly old and vivaciously young. Whether my guests were born here, chose, or happen to be here, I am keen on giving voices and sharing stories of very different artists belonging with different traditions and generations. I do gravitate towards profound interviews rather than sketches and brief questionnaires, and that's why you'll find here in-depth talks embracing both professional and personal insights. Considering my curatorial practice, I've been meeting extraordinary artists and witnessing wonderful art projects that no doubt will go down the history. And now I'm eager to share it with you to give an inside look at the local art scene, which is as vibrant and diverse as personalities creating it. Let's explore and celebrate it together. And

Meeting Barbara Moura In Her Studio

Liudmila Kirsanova 1:12

today, my guest is Barbara Mura. Hello, Barbara. Hi. Barbara is a painter, but the painter who comes to painting through her journey in film and filmmaking, your work is very cinematographic, but it's a little bit I'm already running ahead because I'm so impressed. We are currently sitting in Barbara's studio, and the quality of her painting is really so moving. And Barbara works in the film full of mythology, mythological creatures. She addresses old masters, old stories, and legends, and then she reinterprets them with uh female faces, female figures, women that we as women of nowadays can associate us with. And of course, Barbara, you can imagine with her Portuguese background, amazingly long black hair, exactly women that we see in your paintings, these beautifully open black eyes. That's like this Portuguese beauty. And but before we talk about all the themes and references, because you are an artist who works with so much interesting references, and today we would really look at how you rework, revive, reinterpret these old classical histories from Dante Alighieri, from Caravaggio, Artemisia Gentileschi.

From Film School To Painting

Liudmila Kirsanova 2:54

But before, please tell me so you did finish your bachelor in film, and then you arrived at the where we are now to the studio in Vienna.

Barbara Moura 3:07

Well, it was kind of quite a journey of unexpected turns, let's just say. When I finished my bachelor film, I was really torn between like, should I just follow this path, go do a master's, continue like higher education, or should I just, you know, do something different? So I decided to go to London and to apply to a new master's which was like a completely free master's where you could do whatever you want at Central St. Martin's. I ended up finishing this master's, did not have the answers I needed. I was still so young with two degrees, and I just thought, okay, let's just stay here and have some fun. So I had a lot of different jobs in all sorts of places you can imagine, so I could also just have some fun. And then I got tired. I mean, I thought, okay, like the fun also has to stop, and we need to figure out what to do. And I literally googled cheapest rents in Europe and each other Budapest. So I thought, okay, we're going to Budapest. But I didn't ever plan on doing like a permanent move. When I was talking to one of the only two friends I have here, they said then just come to Vienna instead. Why Budapest? I was like, okay, and well, I never left. Yes, so I only started painting when I moved here around nine years ago, just as a way of you know, like being able to express myself independently, and also because the city is so inspiring. I mean, for me, I had no idea what I was coming to, and everything felt so opulent and massive, and so much art heritage, and so much, you know, like inspiration everywhere. So it was kind of a an easy decision, and I think straight away I realized this is it, you know. And yeah, and here we are.

Liudmila Kirsanova 5:01

But also when I think about Lisbon, it's also a place of such uh incredible beauty, but also very old, very conservative, very Catholic. I mean, I can see that Lisbon and Vienna, of course, different vibes. We don't have a notion here, but it's still this pressure of history. I think when you live, when you grow up in such a place, you always carry on your shoulders this pressure of history through architecture, stories, communities. When you do your painting, you address very often old masters. You address painters like Caravaggio, Gentileschi, Botticelli, and then you take their masterpieces and you reinterpret them. I can understand why you are really fascinated with these pieces because they are breathtakingly beautiful. But why for you is it a way to build your body of work?

Reclaiming Old Masters Through Self-Portrait

Barbara Moura 6:04

So, as a self-taught artist, as a woman artist, I just came to this idea that I thought it is so strange, you know. Like we always refer to old masters or masters in general, just being male. And so for me it started out as a not a joke, but a little bit of humorous decision to like adapt these masterpieces, but then it became really like a way for me to insert myself into this mastery, and also due to my use of self-portraiture, you know, it allows me to be both the subject and the creator, and so we have something completely female, and also makes it to make us think like why were you know only these men called masters? Like, what made them masters and there was such amazing women at the same time? And like, why are they not belonging to this concept of mastery?

Liudmila Kirsanova 6:59

So, all women figures that we observe in your paintings, they are all you in a way.

Barbara Moura 7:07

Yes, it's like a way of positioning myself into any reality, but not in the narcissistic sense. I like to believe it's like you know, putting yourself into other people's shoes, which I think like this kind of self-staging or making so personalized has a stronger impact on the viewer because you know, like if you can see me in that scenario, you can probably see yourself too. It's kind of a call to arms.

Chiaroscuro And The Meaning Of Darkness

Liudmila Kirsanova 7:33

When I started talking, I mentioned that your painting possesses really a very strong cinematographic quality. And of course, the first thought, I mean, you you you talk about this in many interviews you did that the chiaroscuro, this technique of working with light and darkness, with shadow and light. Caravaggio was a great master of this dramatic chiaroscuro. I think this is maybe the reason why we feel it's so cinematographic. What do you think?

Barbara Moura 8:15

I mean, I guess I always have to think about when I say this because saying that a painting is cinematographic it's kind of wrong if we think about it, because I mean painting came before, so I mean I think also the lack of electricity kind of contributed a lot for this kind of scenarios because you know everything was candlelit. But the fact, you know, the way that Caravaggio used indeed this not the lightness but this darkness was kind of like very peculiar compared to all the other Baroque painters, and it was very deliberate, I think, you know, maybe also a good representation of his state of mind or like in the emotional realm, which for such a male painter is kind of also curious. But I also love the fact that you know, like he's not trying to embellish the backgrounds or he's not trying to shine a light on the you know the furniture and the the you know the golden era of the Baroque, like other painters do, like where everything is so visible, look at our abundance, we're rich, or like you know, the costumes, the detailed no, it's like it's completely trying to isolate and you know humanize the figures as just complex human figures, and I think that is so powerful. But cinematographic in the sense, of course, yeah, if we think about that, this was 300 years before the appearance of cinema, it really makes you think maybe cinema actually did follow painting, but it sounds, yeah, it sounds so like it's staged in a way, you know, that you really decided um just putting this little focus of light and yeah, shining darkness over everything.

Liudmila Kirsanova 9:58

I think it's and also you say that darkness is a central element of your work. You say it in your artistic statement. What do you mean? I mean, of course, you do have many blacks and many deep blacks, and like black of blacks in your in your eyes. Of course, you do have this, your protagonists do have this amazing long black hair, and your horses have this black manes. But what do you mean by calling darkness a central element?

Barbara Moura 10:37

Yeah, so I think with time I'm trying to build this darkness, it has its own universe between my paintings and in my work because it is also metaphoric. So I try to really focus on darkness in the sense of color and light, but mostly also in the subjects that I'm dealing with. And you know, like darkness can be the polychrises, the the you know, the stage of the work. It also does belong a lot to you know the concept of shadow work, like our shadows, embracing our own darkness in order to, you know, evolve. It is mostly a metaphorical realm.

Liudmila Kirsanova 11:16

Darkness has a mystery to it because you don't know what is concealed within darkness, what can be there, right, in the darkness. Of course, it also brings to your figures in your paintings, I think, sort of a feeling of isolation. So they are isolated, right? We don't know which world they inhabit because this world is it's not empty, it's concealed. So they are kind of balancing within, floating within, but we are not sure if they are very safe in this darkness. Yes, exactly.

Caravaggio As Baroque Punk

Barbara Moura 11:54

Yeah, and maybe let's keep uh talking about Caravaggio because I really love how you really bring him back with your female gaze in a very different way. And I watched your video that you recorded for Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna. I mean, it's such a great gesture that they invited you to make a tour through their old master's hall and to talk about Caravaggio paintings they have. And there in that video, you say that he is a punk of Baroque. What do you mean? And how do you see him being really punk? I think he is the absolute punk. I mean, wow, I I crush so much on this. Taking in account that most of his commissions came from the church, but in the beginning of this uh 17th century, it's incredible, incredibly badass what he used to do. So imagine that you are this guy with a tempestuous, very well-known tempestuous personality, I would say, temperament. I love how badass it was that he he would just turn every sacred imagery or story into absolutely ordinary. You know, there was no sugarcoating or romanticizing humanity or religion itself. It was absolutely stripping all these biblical scenarios into you know by using sex workers, homeless people, and to absolutely strip them from any of these embellishments. But at the same time, these were pieces for the church. So for me it's a mystery. I mean, you have to be that good that you can get away with this, you know, imagine in these times, commission after commission, and still they would yeah, they would keep coming. And I think it's so badass to work with a subject for the person who commissioned you and still give it such a twist and deliver it. Badass, like really badass, like turning, you know, using sex workers to portray Holy Mary. I mean, can't can't get more punk than this back in those days, I think.

Liudmila Kirsanova 14:20

I mean it would be also a scandal nowadays, right?

Barbara Moura 14:24

So it's scandal was his second name, I believe.

Liudmila Kirsanova 14:29

Exactly one piece that is now on the altar in church in Naples, which is called Seven Acts of Mercy, painting of Caravaggio that you are currently working

Building The Seven Acts Of Mercy

Liudmila Kirsanova 14:43

with. And let me ask why did you approach this piece, Seven Acts of Mercy? Because you are doing a really big project. It's not only one painting, it is a series of painting, and I suggest now we dive deep into this latest artwork of yours. But first is the question: why did you pick up this painting, Seven Acts of Mercy of Caravaggio, to start your big new project?

Barbara Moura 15:14

Well, I've been planning this for a while, but I just didn't feel ready. In fact, since some years I've been doing like I've been taking myself on a Caravaggio tour. So for me to, you know, really see these pieces live because I've never first I've never studied painting, and second, I've never had the chance to see them before. So as soon as I had the chance, I have been traveling and actually really moving. Like I spent nearly one month in each place just so I can live with the pieces and learn more about him. I've done yeah, I've spent some time in Naples, I've spent some time in Rome, I spent also one month in Florence and one month in Siracusa, which was the l one of the latest places where he was after running away from Malta. I had this Seven Nights of Mercy idea already since a long time, because I think again for a punk who you know a man was able to kill, to come up with such a tender, you know, like with such a tender but also chaotic and sad painting.

Liudmila Kirsanova 16:21

I think it's such a so cha chaotic, that's very interesting.

Barbara Moura 16:25

Yeah, because I mean initially we can also dive into this. So this is a painting made for a charity in Naples. This charity had this plan to build the church, but initially they even wanted to build a church with seven actually they did build it, and it was supposed to have seven works, so each act of mercy would stand on one of the arches of the church. But Caravaggio instead of delivering this, delivered the one chaotic huge painting, I think it's about four meters, containing all the seven acts of mercy in like pure Caravaggio mess. I just think it's such a strong metaphor for today, you know. I think especially like we are facing world chaos with men po thirsty for power and war and money, and we're very like we're going further and further away from our humanity, I think, by using this painting by a guy who was not the nicest person we can say, and you know, even he could find ways of like repenting himself and portray, even in his masculinity, portrayed it in such a sensitive way, and so I thought it was a perfect painting to like make sense of the world right now, and also you know, dealing with my anger about things, and yeah, just getting closer to my humanity, I guess, and also because one funny thing, especially in these times where you know, like we're living in such polarized worlds, and also you know, our most governments are weaponizing our differences against each other, and one curious thing about the seven acts of mercy is that they kind of exist in every religion across the times, and I thought this, you know, it's a good reminder that like there is a lot of much more things that unite us than separate us, as much as people try to convince us otherwise.

Liudmila Kirsanova 18:20

Let me just name this seven acts of mercy painted by Karavaja, because when I name it, I mean we all can feel how incredibly actual, how incredibly uh relevant they are in our current situation of war, ecological crisis, and struggles. Bury the dead, visit the imprisoned, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, clothe the naked, visit the sick, refresh the thirsty. And that's the painting that we've just seen now in your studio. And like you say it, chaotic about Caravaggio, because there the Chioscour really reaches a very high point of dramatism where parts of figures are completely eaten by this darkness. Did you also work with this idea of being chaotic, of having them all together on one canvas?

Barbara Moura 19:26

Yes, I think this is the first painting where I have so much going on. So it wasn't easy, like to obviously because of like it is a in it is a reinterpretation, but because you know we paint with different mediums and with completely different techniques. Like by no means I was aiming to achieve a cloud scuro like Caravaggio used to, which is also not possible with the acrylic that I'm painting, and I probably couldn't do it, obviously. But uh yeah, it was the first time I've put so many so many people in one canvas.

Liudmila Kirsanova 20:00

So this canvas looks really strikingly fantastic, and also it is very interesting to see how you interpret these old figures like angels or any mythological creatures with the faces that we would now see, you know, on Instagram, so like this uh idea of bringing back these historical mythical creatures, these heroes of the past, with the features of somebody who can leave right now.

Mythology As Power For Now

Liudmila Kirsanova 20:38

So, in a way, you also you know cut the distance. Why are you so much fascinated with mythology? Why are you so much fascinated with old legends and old stories? Is it escaping or is it on the contrary trying to look for an answer in this old stories?

Barbara Moura 21:01

Well, uh of course these kind of stories are incredibly stimulating, but I like to look at them, you know, they are such sources of power. So if you think like there is not one of these mythological creatures which is not absolutely like beyond powerful, and I think by trying to bridge this into like a more contemporary reality and by placing, you know, people like myself in it, it's kind of like a trying to earnest this power, like you know, we can feed the hungry and we can refresh the thirsty and we should bury the dead, even though that's not the case in many places now, which need no naming. But you know, we are all capable and should be capable of like this basic humanity. And so when we place ourselves or I place myself into this, it's you know, trying to shine a light in Zach Clarity, like why are we not doing these things? Like, you know, what kind of humans are we? What are we becoming? Like because without humanity we're nothing. thing I guess. And so we could also be superhumans. I I believe that you know Ernest, like these stories just really inspire want to really be powerful and have agency in their lives. And I think if you do that you always change peop other people's lives too. And so you know I like to tap into my mythological creatures once in a while to remind myself that yeah power lies within.

Liudmila Kirsanova 22:27

That we're still capable of being humans. But also looking at your paintings makes me think that it's about women. You know women will save the world women will make humans humans again.

Barbara Moura 22:42

Yeah or we should stop all having babies and see if people will be happy about that.

Liudmila Kirsanova 22:48

You know, stop making heroes and then we can talk of course I think it's not only because you have only women it's that feminist in your voice in your imagery it's also something about these women your protagonists you have because they can be different they can be fragile and powerful they can be confused or they can be very concentrated so different the diversity of these feelings and you know and characters but still it's always she she is very attractive. I mean your protagonist you know she's always wearing this nice lingerie a swingwear it's it's their armor yeah the you know it's really it's war clothing and you have series of works that are called Danube series where you paint women and girls bathing being in water being near water wearing this very nice swing suits taking sound baths and I felt that this series

The Danube Series And Regrounding

Liudmila Kirsanova 24:05

is like a big song for femininity for being a woman it's very sensual and very calm yes this was this was my homage to the Danube last summer because with all honesty it was really the only thing that kept me sane and I think it really grounded me so I was kind of out of love with Vienna.

Barbara Moura 24:31

I'm still trying to reconcile that like sometimes I don't know if I want to stay here. Also winters are very hard for someone with my background as you can imagine and so I discovered this I was just going I was working going to the Danube working going to the Danube and I spent extreme amounts of time alone in the studio and in the Danube but also amazing times with my girlfriends and so slowly I don't know I just like rediscovered this love and this quietness and this calmness and also made me reflect on the privilege that it is to live in a city like Vienna that has you know so many swimming spots. The Danube is such an incredibly powerful river. It extends to through countries and countries and you know so I kind of reconciled myself with the city and with my with you know this idea of yeah it it was you know how extremely privileged it is to just be able to enjoy this every day.

Liudmila Kirsanova 25:35

Women in many cultures are very much understood as being much closer to nature and being much more fine-tuned with natural processes so and I think in that series of yours you can see it very well also you do work a lot with uh big formats right you love big formats but for example when you work with the smaller formats very often you do polyptychs or triptychs so it's like again a story maybe this is what I meant when I said cinematographic because this storytelling you know I've never thought about this actually it's a good point.

Spiritual Works Of Mercy Within

Liudmila Kirsanova 26:22

Because this storytelling can be also told in kind of several pieces coming together because for the seven acts of mercy the other part of this project that you did is what you called spiritual seven acts of mercy where you did seven art pieces with smaller format where you took upon different mercies which are counseling the doubtful, instructing the ignorant admonishing the sinner comforting the sorrowful forgiving offenses so you also did for each mercy you did a female figure but the seventh one was just your darkness.

Barbara Moura 27:06

The seventh one says extend prayers and thoughts to the living and the dead so there was nothing to be there obviously since we are talking about you know the things we cannot see and those who are not here anymore and I think that's like extending my thoughts on you know the ongoing war and obviously like the genocide but in the serious as opposite to the corporal acts of mercy from Caravaggi which I think it's an altruist work you know it's like to extend this to others the spiritual seven works of mercy were more like personal. So as in as I was doing and and as I was thinking about this I was also trying to practice it on myself and so it is why you always have this figure in this case it's really me trying to you know extend mercy upon me as well because I think we're also so hard on ourselves sometimes and so that's like the kind of duality one is more personal the other one is you know extend that to the to the collective some artists they really they put a distance between the life they live and the artwork they do.

Liudmila Kirsanova 28:14

It's kind of two worlds sometimes it's a alter ego or like a place to escape or a place where I can be somebody else or live a different life or try a different mask a different personality but for you it comes naturally organically together so when you paint seven acts of mercy you actually also do acts of mercy I mean that's incredibly beautiful.

Barbara Moura 28:39

Yes I mean I'm trying no but it's it really like I I like to think about it like the alchemists you know like the of course the alchemist is trying to transmute turn m matter into gold or into the elixir of life but ultimately it's never really about gold is it it's about like changing yourself in the process and so I have this kind of delusional idea that you know every time I evolve in painting I must evolve as a person and I must you know like things have to be synchronized harmony. So like the better person I will be or the you know whatever that means to which of us the better my work will be

Dante’s Inferno Through A Woman’s Face

Barbara Moura 29:20

or the more you know like these things they will as above so below like it will always you know reflect on the work or on myself and I think this is such a beautiful thought and so I like to believe in that very pure and but not only old masters in visual art you also have two works where you address Dante Alighieri and Inferno in particular and you have the nine circles of hell and you depicted for the nine circles of hell your self-portraits that's also a very interesting decision. Let's hope well yes my brother is a huge fan of Dante Ariere and so we had a some conversations about this that really inspired me to do this. I think first of all is it's you know it's very powerful to have a woman's face into the nine circles of hell because they're not the nicest circles as you can imagine we're talking about the worst stuff possible. But I think like not just really representing the nine circles of hell like as loyal as Dante said it so you know not like but the the bridges into contemporary lenses. But what I love about Dante's alligating descending to hell so these nine circles is that you know the further you go closer to the deepest of the circles you know like the worse you don't get hot like it doesn't get warmer it gets colder and I think this is such a beautiful depiction of hell because you know it's not it's like the further you go away from yourself or love the colder things get which is a completely opposite representation of how hell used to be like that's where the fire and the hot stuff is yeah and with Dante it's the opposite you you go into ice you know like the last circle is supposed to be icy and cold and nothing lives there anymore. It's like all the warmth disappears. Symbolically I think that that makes so much sense. If we could think about like the nine circles of hell as a contemporary like we could say that limbo which is the first circle could mean disconnection nowadays like we are so disconnected you know our like lust doesn't necessarily have to be like you know all the spicy stuff it could just you know how we are obsessed and you know also even things like the the thriving of dating apps like our obsession with things or you know these kind of contemporary bridges that don't necessarily have to like dent in fairness. But yes and it's also a reminder that we can for me putting myself up there is like also a statement of everything I could survive you know because sometimes like especially as women it's not that difficult to go through all the nine circles of hell like things will happen to you. If you think about it maybe I want to make everyone think like wow maybe you know maybe I did go through all of these things.

Liudmila Kirsanova 32:18

In a way now when I think how much you personally connect to your painting you know how you now just told me about performing seven acts of mercy I'm now a little bit afraid to think about the nine circles of hell it is what it is and talking about this about being a female

Vienna State Opera And Women’s Day

Speaker 2 32:40

artist about inspiration and feminist voice you participated in the very first exhibition in Vienna State Opera and it was organized for the International Women's Day on the 8th of March and you showed an artwork for this very first exhibition with a woman carrying a heart in front of her also such a mythological gesture right to to carry a heart like a torch in front of you that would light up the way for others to follow yes I just love that painting so much and so yeah I always get moved.

Barbara Moura 33:22

Yes I mean this was it's not so easy to be the first at anything these days so I'm very grateful for this invitation. I was invited through Bravinsky gallery which with whom I'm working and it was a pal a parallel to an exhibition that we were holding or opening some days later and I think it's so important to you know use these iconic spaces make them you know like open up the doors on Cinewall like breach the arts like why are we not doing this more often like I mean again sense about how you work and this liberating also of women gaze of women figure in your in your canvases you know to make her this warrior not following but holding her heart and leading yeah so like because it's really beautiful if you really believe you know and you show this belief and you can go ahead then people would follow right I think so thank you very much for the talk and uh it's it was really very inspiring now to see how it is connected to life you live as a person.

What Comes Next After Caravaggio

Liudmila Kirsanova 34:41

I'm trying and maybe you can tell me uh just to round up our conversation so now you're working on your Caravaggio Seven Acts of Mercy and do you already know what's coming next? Maybe you can a little bit give us a glimpse into who is next for you to reinterpret them.

Barbara Moura 35:04

I think we will stay on the Caravaggio with much sadness because I'm approaching my final there is only two more works I want to make but I might just do them now but I will not reveal yet I can just say we're going to Rome next very very exciting and looking forward to your new art pieces and new projects thank you thank you very much