The Ben Maynard Program

EP. 127 How The Roth Era Made Van Halen A Game Changer

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Van Halen didn’t just get popular, they changed what rock music sounded like when the needle hit the record. Craig Dodge joins me after a year of planning to talk through the David Lee Roth era and why those early records still feel loud, hungry, and unreal decades later. We start with the personal stuff, how we go back to Cub Scouts, how Craig first heard “Jamie’s Cryin’,” and why Van Halen's debut still lands like a musical event rather than just another classic rock album. 

From there, we get into the craft: Eddie Van Halen as a once-in-a-generation composer on guitar, the misconception of calling the band “heavy metal,” and the magic trick Van Halen pulls off by being both heavy and melodic at the same time. We also talk about cover songs, deep cuts, and what it was like seeing the band live on the Women and Children First and Fair Warning tours, plus the real difference between a lead singer and a true frontman. Roth’s voice is only part of the story; his presence, lyrics, and showmanship help explain why the band’s identity hit so hard. 

Then we do the thing every fan loves to argue about: we rank the Roth-era Van Halen albums, from A Different Kind of Truth to 1984, Diver Down, Fair Warning, Women and Children First, Van Halen II, and the debut that started it all. If you care about classic rock, hard rock history, Eddie Van Halen’s influence, or the peak years of Van Halen, this one is for you. Subscribe to the Ben Maynard Program, share it with a friend, and leave a review, then tell us your Roth-era album ranking.

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Welcome And Listener Housekeeping

SPEAKER_00

Hey there. Welcome into the Ben Maynard program. Thanks for being here. We have a fun one today. What's that?

SPEAKER_01

What's that, Craig? Thanks for having me. Oh, yeah. No.

From Cub Scouts To Van Halen

SPEAKER_00

You're welcome. Planning this for over a year. We have been planning this for over a year. But before we get into what we've been planning for over a year, uh, let's take care of some housekeeping first. As you guys know, this program is available wherever you get your podcasts. Just search the Ben Maynard program. Boom, it's right there. Go with it. Download it. Okay. Download it. Share it. Share it with all your people. You can give me a five-star rating because I deserve it. You know what? You guys can also subscribe to it. When you subscribe to it on whatever uh streaming platform you're using, you get notifications anytime a new episode drops. However, if you're watching because you can't resist some of this right here, and maybe this morning a little bit of that over there. Thanks for doing that. You're watching on YouTube and I appreciate it. But you got to do a couple of things for me first. One, you have to subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell. Again, whenever a new episode drops, you get notification. Um, then you got to give me a thumbs up and you got to leave a comment. All right. I dig your comments. Um then you have to tell a thousand of your family and friends. Tell a thousand of your family and friends about this uh this great podcast, the Ben Maynard program. You know, the the content is better than the host, all right. But just, you know, tell it, tell all your uh tell all your people about it. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram, simply Ben Maynard program, all one word, or where I'm a little more active on the TikTok. That is at the Ben Maynard program. So there are plenty of ways to take in this show for your dancing and listening pleasure. And you can see I have a guest in here today, and it is my long time, long time, long, long time. We'll get into that too, friend Craig Dodge. Craig, thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. Of course.

SPEAKER_01

We go back to uh Boy Scouts, right?

SPEAKER_00

Or Cub Scouts, Cub Scouts, yeah. Go back to Cub Scouts. Craig and I go back to the second grade. That's when we were in Cub Scouts together. Yes. Um, it was uh it was it was um we were den number two.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We were den number yeah, den two pack 462. That's right. Uh we were in Cub Scouts together. That was along with uh, let's see, I think Steve Kerfima was in our den too, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01

Steve Roblato.

SPEAKER_00

Steve Roblato was John Turko. I don't think John was, but I know like Larry and Danny Houston, I think were in our in our den. They were down the street. My mom and and the Houston's mom, they were like the den mothers. And uh yeah. So anyway, so Craig and I go back to Cub Scouts in the second grade. And um, and then uh, you know, fast forwarding all the way to the high school years, Craig becomes this well, probably even slightly before that. We'll get into it. He becomes this enormous Van Halen fan. And um, you know, I've thought about this for gosh, about a year where I wanted to do um, I wanted to do a show on Van Halen. Actually, I wanted to do to do two of them because I wanted to break it up. You've got the Roth era and you've got the Hagar era. And when I told Craig that, Craig says, You better not do the Roth era without me.

SPEAKER_01

Did I say that? You did say that.

Craig’s First Van Halen Moment

SPEAKER_00

I said, you can do it, then you can come in studio and and and we can cover David Lee Roth together. Then uh I think Craig will add something that I that I can't. So um, yeah, so that's kind of how it how it goes. So let's let's start here then, Craig. When did um when did Van Halen come on your radar?

SPEAKER_01

I think I started hearing Jamie's crying on the radio. Okay. And then um one time I went over to my cousin's house, I think it was 1979, and his mom had bought him Van Halen 1 and Van Halen 2. Both, huh? Yeah. And we would sit in his room and listen to it on a turntable.

SPEAKER_00

Of course.

SPEAKER_01

Of course, come on, you have to listen to it on vinyl.

SPEAKER_00

Um okay. All right, so you th so that was somewhere around 79 then? Because it was Yeah, I think it was 70.

SPEAKER_01

It was seven, if it wasn't 79, it was 80, but I'm pretty sure it was 79.

SPEAKER_00

So prior to Van Halen coming on your radar, what is it that you were you were listening to prior to that?

SPEAKER_01

Um I was a KISS fan.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Okay. All right. See, similar, similar paths, I think. And I know for me, uh, you know, and I've I don't want to bore the audience too much because they they know a lot about the stuff that I liked and how I came up to like in music, but but uh, you know, I did like a lot of different music, but for whatever reason, it was like KISS was that band that just grabbed a hold of me. And I don't want to say they were my gateway, but I guess they were my gateway. And I became such a fan of Kiss that everyone else, all other bands out there were a threat to my KISS fandom. Okay. It's it I just weird thinking. It is, it's bizarre thinking. But what's what's even more bizarre to me when I stop and I think about it is I loved Uriah Heap. I got into Uriah Heap from my older brother Jim. Oh, they're a good band, they're tremendous.

SPEAKER_01

They sing that song Love Hurts, right?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, that's Nazareth. Oh yeah, but that's okay, that's all right, no big deal. So, but Uriah Heap's great. So I liked Uriah Heap, but it was weird as I didn't consider them a threat to kiss. Um I liked the Beatles. I used to listen to the Beatles a lot and the Beach Boys, not a threat to kiss. Okay. So it's just it was just like I said, you're talking like 11, 12-year-old kid, 13-year-old kid. So everyone else was a threat. And then I heard this band, Aerosmith, they came onto my radar. The first thing I heard from Aroswith uh Aerosmith was the Get Your Wings album and Lord of the Thighs, and which is that just absolutely dynamite song. But then I I think I could start to open up things a little bit more. So I don't know if that was a similar thing for you where you were a KISS fan, and then I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think I was enamored by you know the Kiss show.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

The the breathing fire, the spitting blood, yeah, the makeup and the show. I mean, it was a phenomenal show, but um I don't want to be mean, but musically, um as I got older, they seemed like they were lacking a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Not that I don't enjoy some of their songs, but um when I started listening to Van Halen, I mean it was just a game changer. I mean, when they came out with their first album, it blew everybody away. They were just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

Um, yeah, I would completely agree with that. Um and then Van Halen for me, they didn't come onto my radar. I would say that that after the kiss and and and and then I uh I let Aerosmith into my world. Um I would say Van Halen was kind of right around that time or right after that. And listening to that debut album, it was probably I'm thinking this was in '79. So the album had already been out for about a year. And it was um to use your word, you said game changing, and and it really was, it was in in in the music sense, and it was game changing. You put the needle on the album, and the first thing you hear is this rip roaring guitar solo by by Eddie, and no one has ever heard anything like that before. And so much so that it, you know, for if you if you're 12 or 13 years old, 14 years old, whatever, and you hear that, I mean, that's almost scary, you know, it's just because it was so intense and in your face. And uh you know, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01

I used to think like Jamie's crying, like that was that was really heavy, like you know, and now when I look back and you see the music that's come from like Metallica Slayer and um Pantera, like it almost seems like bubblegum.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's definitely evolved, but in 78 when that debut album came out, it um yeah, it was it was like it was like nothing that anyone had ever heard before, and it was, it was very heavy, you know, in the early 80s, but it was melodic too, very much so, very much so. Um, because you know, Eddie Van Halen was not just a tremendous guitar player, but uh and musician, period, because he was a drummer, as you know, before he picked up the guitar, not for very long, yeah. But but I mean he could he could play everything. He played the he played the piano as well.

SPEAKER_01

But oh, did you I'm sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. Um, I don't know if you know this, but their mother wanted them to be concert pianists.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not sure if I've heard that one before.

SPEAKER_01

Uh maybe I read in Alex's book.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01

But I've only got to page 24. I was trying to think maybe we can do a another podcast when I finish the book.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, maybe you'll have to review the book. Yeah. So, you know, but Eddie was a he was a virtuoso, yeah. And so he was looking to do something and try something that probably one he hadn't heard before, and we hadn't heard before either. So, so yeah, when you that was in '78, that was very, very heavy stuff. And not just not just the eruption guitar solo, but you get into that cover of You Really Got Me, really heavy. Everybody knows the Kinks version of You Really Got Me. And then what was that, '64 when that came out, that was considered heavy.

SPEAKER_01

I never really um knew of the original You Really Got Me. I I thought it I didn't know it wasn't a Van Halen original. Until later. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. Did you know um, you know that song You're No Good on Van Halen 2? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, that was originally sang by Linda Ronson.

SPEAKER_00

Sure was.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't realize that until about the last couple years.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, no. See, yeah, I knew those were cover songs. Um, even back then, I knew they were cover songs.

SPEAKER_01

I tried to look up who wrote Ice Cream Men and I I couldn't find it. I don't think that Van Halen wrote that.

Why The Debut Shocked Everyone

SPEAKER_00

I, you know what? I'd have to look, but yeah, I don't know. Um we'll worry about it later, but but you know, getting back to the sound, even into the early 80s, and I think it was definitely a mislabel, but but Van Halen was falling under the label of heavy metal, yeah, yeah, you know, which like I said, definitely a mislabel. They're just a heavy, hard rock band, you know, through and through. And it doesn't matter if it's the Roth era, it doesn't matter if it's the the Sammy era, they're just a hard rock band. Um, and and a lot of melody. Um, even more, I think even they even got more melodic when Sammy joined the band, but this is the Dave years, so we'll get back. You know, speaking speaking of Sammy really quick, you know, just the other day, I think it was Tuesday, uh celebrated 40 40th anniversary of 5150.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think something came out uh I don't remember how many years, but it was the anniversary for women and children first, too, I think. Which was a Van Halen third album, if anybody doesn't know that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just in case we don't. But uh if you're watching this episode, you better be a Van Halen fan. So um we can educate. Yeah, so no, four, yeah, 40 years ago, just the other day, uh 5150 uh was released, and then the uh 40th anniversary, um, they did a uh deluxe edition of it just came out yesterday. So I'll have to check that one out. But getting back to to to Dave and and and the the Roth era, it was just incredibly heavy stuff, I think mislabeled, but I know hearing that first album to start you know to start way back in you know 79 or whatever, I thought, wow, this is just like it was, it was almost scary stuff. It was so it was it was heavy at that time, um, and and loud, loud guitars, um, heavy bass. Michael Anthony is a dynamo on the bass. Um, but just really, really good stuff. And I I learned, I shouldn't say learned, but I did kind of start to get acclimated to it and get used to that sound, you know, and how heavy it was. But um, yeah. I think when I first heard it, it was I thought it was too heavy. But that's but you know, and I've talked about it on the podcast previously, you know, that's how I mean rock and roll itself has evolved over the years. I mean, look, you had you had Elvis and and and and Chuck Berry and Fats Domino and Buddy Hawley, Little Richard, you had all those guys. Their sound was completely different than it was, you know, the even the Beatles when they first started, they had a particular sound, and their sound evolved towards the end of you know their run.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, it's just I mean you brought up Elvis. Um, I know we're talking about Van Halen, but you know who really Elvis really admired and admired him?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

Led Zeppelin.

SPEAKER_00

I do know that Robert Plant was a big admirer of Led Zeppelin.

SPEAKER_01

They admired each other.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, oh really, yeah. Okay, it's mutual. Maybe that's why, you know, maybe Robert got some of his not in necessarily his stage moves because he moved much differently than Elvis did, but but maybe he got a lot of inspiration.

SPEAKER_01

There's a there's a song I I think it's Achilles Last Stand, maybe. And it talks about a king, and I think they're referring to Elvis. I'm really listening to that one. I just I think it's Achilles Last Stand, but it could be a different, a different song. It could be uh the rock and roll song, or um shoot, I I'd have to look it up. I can't remember off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I just did um last week, I just talked about albums that turned 50. And speaking of Led Zeppelin, we're gonna get back on track here with Van Halen in a moment, but uh the presence album was released in 1976, so it just turned 50. And uh Achilles Last Stand was a song on that. So I I did, I talked about I talked about that a little bit, but um real quick and we'll move back to to to our topic. Um I think it's on the um Song Remains the Same album, and I believe it's during a whole lot of love, and Robert Plant name checks Elvis in that song.

SPEAKER_01

That could be one of the best metal songs ever.

SPEAKER_00

That started out as one of the best blues songs ever. Because that was a blues song.

SPEAKER_01

That might have the best bass ever, too.

First Concert Memories And Early Tours

SPEAKER_00

Good stuff, but okay, so so you so the first time that that that Van Halen comes on your radar, you're listening to the debut album, you're listening to Van Halen 2. And and it's like now it's just opening up things for you. Um when was the um when was the first time that you saw Van Halen live? Uh the Women and Children First Tour. That's what, 1981?

SPEAKER_01

No, that was probably 1980. Okay. I think uh Fair Warning was 81.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. Yeah. Okay. Because they were doing an album a year at that point.

SPEAKER_01

And I I think at that time, I'm guessing, I don't know, I never saw them before that. Uh I think they were really coming into their show, you know. Like when you first get out there, you're you're kind of filling things out and everything, you know. But um I think that's when they started to get huge.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. No, by by women and children first, they were uh no, they were already.

SPEAKER_01

And the I remember I bought the women and children first album and I brought it home and I listened to it and I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00

Really? What didn't you like about it?

SPEAKER_01

It I don't know, but after I started listening to it more, I began to love it. But I I think for me, music, any kind of music that I listen to, if I like it right away, yeah, I think I burn out on it. But I didn't realize how great it was.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Well, the bit what's uh let's see, the one big song is what uh in the cradle will rock.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think my favorite song on that album is Everybody Wants Some. Oh yeah, no, that that's when people ask me what's the best drum solo, I'm like, I think everybody wants some. But sometimes I don't know, Van Halen has so many good songs. How can you just pick one, right?

SPEAKER_00

No, it's true. It's true. It it is it's definitely true. Um, so women and children, that was the first uh that was the first time you saw them live. Where did you see that show? I think it was at the forum. Okay, which would have made a lot of sense, certainly in 1981 or 80. That would have made a lot of sense seeing uh seeing a show at the forum.

SPEAKER_01

That was you know, it's funny because I used to hear a lot of people say, Oh, see, Ben, Dave was too drunk and it sucked. But man, when I saw him, he killed it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so Dave, so Dave wasn't too inebriated to uh all right. So so you okay, he remembered most of the song. There you go. And he remembered most of the song lyrics and all that kind of stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01

So hey talked about his probation officer, probably didn't really have one, it just sounded it sounded good though, right?

SPEAKER_00

And there was uh what was it? I I think it was in 81 or 82. There was and its story may have even come out earlier than that, that that Dave had paternity insurance through through Lloyd's of London. Yep, yeah, yeah. That was Dave, quite the cocksman, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just oh, did we just go to PG?

SPEAKER_00

He was just covering all his base.

SPEAKER_01

You know, sometimes I would go watch interviews of him because he's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and sometimes he won't shut up either.

SPEAKER_01

They they asked him if he wanted a family, and he said, I well, I am a family man. I started three this year.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man. Oh my goodness. That would be sad. You know, I know it it's it's funny. It uh uh you know, they say that you know George Washington's the father of our country and all that, but but you know what in reality, getting back to Dave, he might actually be the father of our country, right?

SPEAKER_01

Um you know, I don't know. I think if if there was someone out there, it would have been in the news. I heard Roger Daltrey from The Who has found out he had six kids he didn't know he had.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, the rock and roll lifestyle. Oh, geez. So um, all right. So the first time you see him is on women and children. You see it at the forum, um, and you're just like blown away. And that was it. I mean, what was it prior to that or or when did when was it like Van Halen? That's my band. That is it. Those are my guys.

SPEAKER_01

I don't remember when it was, but I was kind of leaning more towards Led Zeppelin, which has probably more talent in their band than Van Halen. I'm not trying to uh diss anybody here, but I mean I just like Van Halen better. I mean, I love Zeppelin, but Van Halen's they're my they're my number one. I mean, Eddie was just so amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And r Roth may have lacked in some uh talent, but he seemed to be able to make up with it, make up for it with just you know, he's he he wasn't the best singer, but He just the way he carried himself, he's been called the the best frontman ever. And they'll say not the best singer, but the best frontman ever. He could, he could, he could bring it, he could pull the crowd.

SPEAKER_00

And there's a difference between a a lead singer and a frontman. There's a big difference between that. You can have guys that have tremendous voices that you know want to uh turn their back on the audience, you know, hide behind the lead guitarist, whatever, you know, and and just don't have a great stage presence. And then you can have guys like um you know, like David Lee Roth, may not be the most technically sound vocally, but definitely keeps the crowd into it, brings the show every night, and he has been a true entertainer over his career. I don't and a true front and a true front man.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if you know this, but I read this, you know, their manager Ted Templeman.

SPEAKER_00

Uh he was the producer.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Well, in the beginning, he wanted to get rid of Dave.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And he wanted to pull Sammy in. That would have fundamentally changed the band. I I don't know if they would have made it as big. I mean, Dave was like the the marketer of the band. I mean, and um Ted said, you know, he the more he got to know Roth, that he was very well read, very art articulate about the way he put things together. Um, and he said Dave was brilliant, and then he said it never would have happened without Dave.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and and I I I agree with that. Um, and it was, it was early on, it was it was during the recording sessions of the of the debut album. Ted had already worked with Sammy um when Sammy was with Montrose, and so he was familiar with Sammy's uh ability.

SPEAKER_01

And uh Sammy has great abilities. He's he's he's a better singer than Roth, but Roth has an octave, like I don't know a lot about music, but uh his ability to scream at a certain uh level, yeah. Sammy can't do that. So when Sammy joined the band, I know we're talking about the Roth years, yeah, there was some songs that they could not do because Sammy couldn't do them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Uh and and you know, there obviously was a quality that David Lee Roth was bringing to the table, not just his equipment, okay? Because Roth had the money. Yeah. If you're not if you're not aware, Roth was uh Roth Roth was pretty much born with a silver spoon in his mouth. I think his dad was a doctor or something. He made a lot of money, and and David was David was the one that uh was you know bringing the bringing all the equipment, you know.

SPEAKER_01

His dad, I think his dad was worried about Dave.

SPEAKER_00

But uh, but there was a a quality once Ted got to know Dave a little bit because yeah, you're right. He did want to, he was really considered uh having the guys replace Dave with Sammy, but but the more they sat down, the more he got to know him. He also could see the way that David Lee Roth was crafting a song.

SPEAKER_01

Well, do you know who had the best voice in Van Halen?

SPEAKER_00

Well, Michael Anthony is just absolutely come on. And to this day, Michael Anthony still sings that.

SPEAKER_01

How does Michael Anthony end up as a back singer back of stage? I know. I don't think Michael really cares. I mean, he seems like the most chill, uh what's the word I'm looking for? Uh laid-back guy. Yes. But he he's just like, whatever. Like, I remember when they got back together with Roth and um they had Wolfgang Van Halen play bass. I don't think they ever told Michael. He said he heard about it. And he was like, he was like, it's cool. He goes, it's not like I need the money.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, you know, obviously I've never met Michael Anthony, but but uh every interview that I've heard, um, he just yeah, he just comes off like uh most just the most genuine guy, you know, just very down-to-earth, very genuine. Um just a really, really nice.

SPEAKER_01

Probably held out the best, too.

SPEAKER_00

You know, probably so. Yeah, probably so. But um, you know, so so so getting back to the way that that David Lee Roth could craft lyrics. You know, you would mention that he was very well read. And yeah, I mean, David could carry on a certain way on stage, but it doesn't necessarily mean that's who he was off stage. Uh probably for the most part he was, but there are certain aspects of him that were different. Like nobody would have thought, oh, that this guy jumping around on stage doing flips and swinging a samurai sword and all this stuff has got to be this, you know, educated, well-read guy. No, he's just a drunk and he likes and he likes to get high all the time and then show you.

SPEAKER_01

I think they're all true. Can it all be true? Haven't you ever heard that? I don't care what they say about me, it's probably all true anyway.

Roth’s Role And Band Pressure

SPEAKER_00

But but yeah, he was well read and he could craft lyrics. He was really, really good at putting look. Eddie and Dave had a chemistry that a lot of a lot of uh guys in bands don't have.

SPEAKER_01

It was probably a lot of this, it was probably a lot of that too.

SPEAKER_00

It's probably a lot of friction as well.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I heard uh that Dave would come up with an idea, and Dave, Dave was more disco and do-op. Oh, and Dave would come out with with an idea and he'd give it to Eddie, and Eddie would tweak it, would probably make it more of a hard rock than Dave intended it to be, and that's how you got what you got from them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Dave did come from that showman. I mean, he had he liked he had that background in him, where it was a vaudevillion and that kind of thing, yeah. Um but um, yeah, just the way that those guys work together, crafting, crafting lyrics and and and and and putting songs together. There's definitely two different um not just within the two two eras of the band, but two different sounds. And some of that is well, a lot of it is because of where Eddie was going at that time. You know, Eddie, Eddie wanted to just expand everything. He was, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Well, he's a musician. Any any musician out there, if you're out there and you're writing heavy metal, hard rock, acid rock, metal, speed metal, or whatever, and you do it all the time, nobody wants to eat steak all the time.

SPEAKER_00

I don't mind.

SPEAKER_01

Once in a while, you need to throw a donut in there, or you know, maybe a hot dog.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna get back to the donuts downstairs when we're done. But uh, so all right. So now the next time you see Van Halen, so you see among women and children, that's in 1980. So when's the next time you see the bear warning? So right on the next tour. Yeah. Okay. All right, how was that? Was that it was that a good show? It was awesome. All right, tell me.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe it was on point. I mean, it was a while ago.

SPEAKER_00

Um of course it was.

SPEAKER_01

Can't really remember the details, but it just uh the sound, I mean, their music, it just to me, it just really moves me. I mean, if somebody has a different favorite band than I do, I mean, you know, the heart wants what the heart wants, but for me, I mean Yeah, it's just something, it's just something that gets you right there.

SPEAKER_00

But um because I look, I'll I'll be honest with you. I I've I've only seen Van Halen one time. I only saw him one time live, and it was way past their heyday.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so what year?

SPEAKER_00

It was in uh like 2012, 2013. Um I think it was 2012.

SPEAKER_01

I I know that we're only doing the Roth era, but like when I talk to people, and if that's the way they feel, I'm not trying to tell anybody, you know, that they should like what I like, or you know, because they like it better with Sammy, that that's dumb. And I'm not trying to say that, but when you saw when I saw the Women and Children First Tour, fair warning, and then I saw him with Sammy, it was good, but I was a little disappointed. Okay. Now, if you saw him with Sammy, and then you saw him when Dave got in the band, you might have a different opinion that might have altered your opinion of who you like better.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And if you would have saw him in the beginning, in the middle, and then when Dave got back, you still might like it better with Sammy, and that's okay. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to tell people they're stupid or I don't like them or that they're they're dumb. But I'm I'm saying if you didn't see the beginning and you're comparing uh when Roth gotten into the band to when Sammy was in the band, it might alter your opinion.

SPEAKER_00

Well, there's just there's no question, there's absolutely no question that probably from uh well, first off, when when Van Halen hit in 78, they just they blew everybody away. But they were untouchable, certainly through the early 80s. They were an untouchable band, and it's it's like uh nobody compared to them. Um, and it was album after album, tour after tour, um that it was like, oh, did you see Van Halen? Did you hear this? Did you see that? You know, and it was it was a constant thing. And um, like I said, they were probably the hottest band um through the early 80s.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't know if you know this when they started out, they used to open up for Black Sabbath, they would blow them off the stage.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that first tour, yes, that first tour they did open up for for Black Sabbath. Um and yes, and that obviously uh still a different sound, Van Halen from Black Sabbath, but Black Sabbath wasn't in a good place.

SPEAKER_01

Those guys were those guys were just it might have been because it was probably partying too much.

SPEAKER_00

Those guys were drugged out uh you know of their skulls, and um so they were not in a good place. And you know what? Good for Van Halen though, because they took advantage of it and they did. Yes, they were known for blowing black Sabbath. How many bands, how many bands in the history of rock and roll in the history of music here can say we blew Black Sabbath off the stage?

SPEAKER_01

Here's here's a fun fact that I that I heard. Um, I watched uh interview with Don Dawkins from Dawkins. Oh, yeah. And he, I think I didn't know this, but I think Daken kind of started before Van Halen, and Van Halen was opening up for Dawkins. And Don Dawkins said he used to sing and play guitar, and he said he was at a show and Van Halen was gonna open up for him, and he hears Lee guitar, and he's like thinking, Oh, it's two guys playing guitar, but it was only Eddie, and he goes, I'm just gonna stick to singing. Yeah. Don, yeah, Don goes back to the he has a great voice, and and he had a great guitarist, George Lynch.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But uh, and and all those guys from from from Randy Rhodes to George Lynch to um I think uh even Carlos Cavazo, uh Eddie Van Halen, all those guys, it was very, very competitive uh in the early days in the in those you know late set mid to late 70s.

SPEAKER_01

If anybody wants to dispute this, but this is how I feel, is there's a lot of guys that can maybe imitate the way Eddie plays and they can play fast. Um, but Eddie was a composer.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not all guys that play good guitar are composers. And I'm sure you know who Steve Vai is. He played lead guitar for David Lee Roth when he left the band.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And he said he met Eddie Van Halen, they hung out, they played guitar and they talked. And Steve Vai is a very, he's probably in the top ten of guitar players. He said that anybody that thinks they can play as good as Eddie is an idiot. And uh for him to say that, I mean, yeah, I I respect that.

SPEAKER_00

He was uh, you know, look, Eddie was a very, very special um, he was a special musician, you know. That's this is the way it is. So um, all right, so now you've seen Van Halen on back-to-back tours. You know what? Let me get to this one. Did you see Van Halen at the S festival? No, you did not. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I did on YouTube. Dave was pretty drunk.

SPEAKER_00

Dave was drunk.

SPEAKER_01

Did you know they were the highest paid band there?

SPEAKER_00

I would believe that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know how much they got paid?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

1.5 million dollars.

SPEAKER_00

And I don't did they, I don't even did they even finish their set? I don't even remember. Uh I don't know. Because I didn't go. Um, but I didn't go to that one either. But I know there's I know there's video footage. Actually, I think it's in the I think it might be in the Panama video of the the cops hauling Dave backstage, you know, down the hallway. He's got a towel wrapped around him, he's wearing his cowboy boots, you know, and he's half naked.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, again, I know we're talking about the Roth area, but but I've heard Sammy say that Eddie would, you know, get really messed up and he'd be like, Man, I don't know if he's gonna make it tonight. And he then Sammy would say, Man, he'd just go on stage and he'd kill it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know, I think there's something to be said for when the lights come on, everything changes, you know. Oh, another thing too ready to go.

SPEAKER_01

I heard that Eddie didn't like Dave. But he wouldn't show it on stage.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I don't, yeah, that I don't know. I could see that it being a possibility be just because of who David Lee Roth is, you know, he's just a huge personality and he's uh you know, look at me kind of guy, always wanting to be the center of attention. And um but he was. He was, yeah, no, he was. You know what they say, it ain't bragging if it's true, yeah. But um, and I think there might be some of I think there might be some truth to that, especially when you fast forward to the 1984 album and era, and um, you know David Lee Roth leaving the band after that tour. Um, I think that they're just too too much tension between him and Ed.

SPEAKER_01

Um Well, there's a lot of reasons why they why they split up.

SPEAKER_00

Share.

SPEAKER_01

Share?

SPEAKER_00

Share. Yeah, share, share, share with the shit. Oh, share.

SPEAKER_01

I thought you were talking about Sunny and share. No, not Sonny and Share. Well share. Well, I mean, some say, you know, uh Dave was a jerk, they didn't want to deal with them anymore. Um, but some of the interviews that I've watched, um David Lee Roth, you know, was at the end of uh the sixth album, he was the only single guy in the band. And I think the other guys wanted to take a break and spend some time with their family, and Dave's like, I want to be back on the road again. So he kind of started doing his own thing, and then another time uh Dave mentioned that Eddie and Alex were in rehab a lot. So um, you know, maybe it wasn't just creative differences, maybe, you know, I guess I don't know. When something works, I mean, I don't I wouldn't mind doing a job uh for a while if if I got paid really well, but after a while it kind of wears on you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, kind of like there's there's not enough money to make this thing.

SPEAKER_01

What the band would have done if they would have stayed together, would they have still been great?

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

I I don't think they would have been bad. Um I mean, like like the Beatles, they're they're a great band. There's Van Halen probably never would have happened if it wasn't for the Beatles.

SPEAKER_00

There's a whole lot of bands that wouldn't have happened, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um but man, when I listened to the Beatles in the morning on KOS, some of the songs they wrote, I'm just like just sounds like they didn't they were just writing to write. Like it wasn't really like I don't want to listen to this, it doesn't sound good. I mean, they had some great songs, but you know, after a while, and and a lot of bands, once they hit a certain thing, you can't continually do the same thing because people are gonna get tired of it. And you gotta change. And when you change, it either works or it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And your fan base is gonna come along or they're not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And if they don't, then you hope you develop new fans.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of bands goes. I I think one band that was really good at changing and all staying together was you too, because their sound changed a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, for better or worse, if you ask me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there was one out. What was that one? Octune baby, or yeah, I kind of got lost there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I kind of they kind of lost me there.

SPEAKER_01

I gave them a pass on that one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. From that point forward, they kind of lost me. Uh anyway, so okay. Well, here. So, all right. Now, can you say do you have like a favorite uh a favorite live show that you saw Van Halen?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it had to be Women and Children First and Fair Warning.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Okay. All right. Um like I said, I didn't see them until I it would have been really neat and interesting to see Van Halen back then. It didn't matter if it was uh um early days, it didn't matter if it was you know up to the 1984 tour. I think it would have been good to see that for me.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not trying to be mean, but that's okay. When Van Halen got back together with Roth, I was all excited. I was trying to get tickets and I couldn't get through, or I don't I don't know why it wasn't working out. I was trying to get them online or something. And then after they came out, I looked them on YouTube and I'm like, that's not as good as it was in the 80s. I wouldn't have liked it. Like I just wouldn't have been impressed.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I right well, and I could and I could see that too. Look, for me, like I said, I saw them in 2012. It they were touring um uh different kind of truth, and the opener was cool in the gang.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, oh, when they got rough back in the band, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

So I liked their performance. Uh definitely it was a really good show, however. Um, yeah, you know, look, you're talking what this is 14 years ago. So uh what's what's we'll say Roth is he's gotta be like 72 years old. So minus 14, he's like 58 years old. He's certainly not gonna move around and jump around, and he didn't. He didn't, he did some dancing and stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was wearing like some some like ballet type shoes because he had this um for lack of a better word, it was like a slip sheet in the center of the stage so he could slide and glide on it, and so he did a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01

Um well, I can't jump off the jump set drum set anymore. He touched my toes.

SPEAKER_00

He was not jumping off the the drum riser and and doing the the Russian splits or anything like that. No, he was not doing that, but it was a good show, however, I was like, okay, let's like stick to the lyrics of the song, Dave. But then you have to understand that was pretty much Dave throughout most of his throughout most of his career is where you know he he either blows a line or uh changes a line, comes in late on a line of the song, or whatever, you know. It's not if if you're expecting it to sound like it does on the record, then you're gonna be disappointed.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but that's all you I think you always get that in a live show.

SPEAKER_00

So, but they did put on a good show.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I got another fun fact for you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, give me another fun fact.

SPEAKER_01

Um, did you know Prince jumped off a piano and touched his toes?

SPEAKER_00

I didn't.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know why he did that? I don't know. Because Apollonia was dating David Lee Roth and he didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00

Know that? No, I didn't know that. So Dave Dave stole Prince's girl.

SPEAKER_01

Or or was or was it I don't know or was it before I don't know if it was Prince's girl, but I uh Prince didn't like Apollonia dating David Lee Roth.

SPEAKER_00

Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01

I I did not know that.

The Classic Album Run Debate

SPEAKER_00

I did not know that. Okay. There you go.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm always acquiring Van Halen knowledge. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

So and cartilage too, but that's that'd be another podcast.

SPEAKER_00

That's another show. Um now I think that a lot of people would be hard pressed, music lovers, critics, whatever. Would be hard pressed to find another band that had the first let's let's say first four albums for sure that are just like untouchable from start to finish on each album. Would you agree with that? You know, you look at the Van Halen debut album, you look at Van Halen 2, you look at Women and Children first, and then Fair Warning. Those those albums are really just untouchable.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think there's any bands that have a follow-up album after their debut album that are as good as Van Halen.

SPEAKER_00

That's you know, that's possible. I you know, it I guess you'd be hard pressed to find find that in anyone. Now, you know, I like the Diver Down album. Okay. That's a great album. Yeah, I like it. It's it's it's like the shortest album of their of their first six albums. It's the shortest one. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's the shortest one. It was it was it was it was a rush job, it wasn't even really supposed to happen, but but um but they put it out. They needed an album for the uh Oh Pretty Woman tune is what they needed, you know, because they were putting that song out, and um I think that's again killed it. No, they uh actually they did do a great job with that song, but that's the thing. Van Halen done a great job with uh all the covers that they've done.

SPEAKER_01

But Eddie Eddie always said I'd rather fail with my own music than make it big with somebody else's.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But Dave, I think Dave liked the covers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And and I think that had to do with a lot of the I mean what Diver Down is like half covers. I think five of the four four or five of the songs of the case.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh Pretty Woman. Yeah. What are the other covers?

SPEAKER_00

Uh Pretty Woman. Uh well, they do the uh Happy Trails at the End.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I I want to I want to uh bring this up. I think I've said this to you before, but I think it's very um interesting is that on Diver Down, there were two songs on there that never really got popular, and they're so good. And one is Hang Em High, and the other one is Full Bug.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Amazing songs, but they never Yeah, they're definitely deep tracks. Um, but even with that, like I was like I started to say you could take because I guess I do like I do like Diver Down, and then and then you've got 1984, which was a tremendous album. Um, so you could really even stretch that from four albums to six albums and say, in any band's catalog and their history, is there another band out there that that has six great albums? You know, one right after the other, the first six, the first four, the first six, whatever it is. And I think that that's a tough argument to make um for anybody. I think the first one is a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think any of their albums were as good as their first one, but they weren't bad.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, but I don't um I think if you ask the the probably most Van Halen fans, hardcores, even casuals, uh the most iconic probably is going to be the debut album, just because of the um impact that it made when it was released. Um obviously, song for song, it's it's it's it's absolutely dynamite. Um probably is the one that you hear the most on like classic rock radio. You probably hear the most songs off the debut than you would off of subsequent albums. Um, so maybe that has a little bit to do with it too. But um I think I heard jump too much.

SPEAKER_01

Probably I wasn't I love 80, but I wasn't I wasn't a big fan of jump.

SPEAKER_00

It was uh it well, look, it was a different song. It was certainly more radio friendly, but you can't complain. The song went to number one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, the song went to number one, and this is what's really cool about about the the Van Halen catalog and and more specifically in the Roth years. Van not a lot of bands do, but Van Halen has two 10 million selling records. So that's that's Roth? Yeah, they're both in the Roth era. They're both in the Roth era. It's the but I think didn't they outsell, didn't some of the albums with Sammy outsell the well, they may have sold some of outsold some of the back catalog, but the debut album and 1984 are Van Halen's two albums that have both uh are are diamond albums, meaning they've sold 10 million copies or more. So I think that's great. You know, there aren't a lot of bands that have two 10 million selling albums. You might have one, some will have one. There's a bunch of bands out there that can't even say that, but but yeah, 1984 and the debut album both have sold over 10 million copies.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's yeah, but if you have like 50 million in the bank, who cares?

SPEAKER_00

I will say this that the 5150 album uh is that album that is actually Van Halen's only number one album. Even even 1984, being that it sold 10 million copies, did not make it to number one on the on the Billboard Top 200. But 5150 did make it to number one. I wonder if that could be like marketing or um maybe the albums cost more than, or uh well, I think uh if you got to look at 1984 and what was out in 1984, Michael Jackson's Thriller was still hot, even though that album came out in late 82. I mean, there's a reason why it's the biggest selling album of all time. Um, but that definitely helped to keep 1984 out of the number one spot. Oh, it did. That one did. And then you fast forward to 1986 when 5150 is released. It depends on what the albums are out at the time. And but but 5150 did uh um claim the number one spot on the top 200. Um but I think it's uh but why can't this be love? Only made it to number two on the Billboard Hot 100, where 1984 only got to number two, but jump made it to the number one spot. So so there you go. I don't know, just a little stupid stuff, you know. Fun facts, yeah. Fun facts, uh, you know, useless facts, maybe too.

SPEAKER_01

There's a there's a lot of in 40 years, a lot of things aren't gonna matter to me anymore.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lot of useless information up here, Craig. It really is.

SPEAKER_01

My uh fun facts, fun facts.

SPEAKER_00

I say fun facts. Catherine says useless information.

SPEAKER_01

I think we got that from Big Bang Theory.

Ranking The Roth Era Albums

SPEAKER_00

Uh I don't know. Oh, I don't know. But um, so I asked Craig if he would put together um one if he would rank the uh Van Halen albums, the Roth era albums. There are seven of them, just in case you aren't aware. There's certainly the first six from 1984 all the way back to the debut album, and then there's 2012's A Different Kind of Truth. So I asked Craig if he would do that.

SPEAKER_01

And uh they're almost in order.

SPEAKER_00

He was like, he was like, dude, you're you're I I told him yesterday. He was like, dude, you're not giving me a lot of time to work on this. I did it this morning.

SPEAKER_01

And I forget what else you told me to do, but I think I did it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I told you to make a top 10, but you see, my top 10 is is is blank right here. I don't even have a top 10. Well, don't look at my answers. I'm not gonna look at yours. So anyway, so you want me to give me your number, give me your number seven. Number seven? Yeah, your number seven album. A different kind of truth. And and and we both agree on that one. And probably because when you spend so much, there's a couple reasons here, people. Oh god. Probably a lot of that too. But um when you grow up, remember different kind of truth. There was what almost what almost 20 years from 84 to 2012. No, that's yeah, no, that's 30 years, almost 30 years in between releases with David Lee Roth. A lot of stuff's changed. I know that, yes, I know those are a lot of old songs that they brought back that were, you know, and and and put a fresh coat of paint on them and that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01

I forgot to include the greatest hits.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but that's not that's not a studio album, though. No, that's not a full studio. So just the full studio album. So different kind of truth. Craig and I agree with that. The magic was gone, but in all transparency, too, I myself have not spent like I'm spent hardly any time listening to a different kind of truth since it came out 14 years ago. Yeah, me neither. Yeah, so I'm just not even really that familiar with it. So what what do you have for number six? Uh number six, nineteen eighty-four. So do I. I got 1984 in the number six spot. Any particular reason why you would have it that low?

SPEAKER_01

Um, it's not a bad album. It's just I felt that the other ones were better.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, and somebody else might feel differently.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I don't think it's a bad album either. I would What was on there? They had Panama, um obviously jump, Panama, I'll wait, Hopper Teacher, uh uh um uh Top Jimmy. Um Top Jimmy wasn't Top Jimmy on 1984. Am I wrong? Let me look. I got notes here. I got notes here. Let me look at my notes. I got a cell phone. Yeah, well, my notes are more handy. I thought so. I could be completely wrong, too. Man, it's taking me a long time to get through these notes. There we go. Yeah, Top Jimmy's there. Is that side one? Oh, yeah, and drop dead legs, too. I was gonna say drop dead legs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't I don't hate that song, but uh it wasn't to me, it wasn't great.

SPEAKER_00

But uh I I do I like 1984. I would say probably my least favorite song on 1984 would be Jump. Yeah, you know, me you know, I like the song. It's a lot, uh certainly if you you know you're a hardcore Van Halen film.

SPEAKER_01

What Roth wrote the lyrics about for the song?

SPEAKER_00

I think I'd seen somewhere, read somewhere. It was a it was a it was about a guy that was like gonna commit suicide, yeah. Right, right. You climbed up a building, he was gonna jump off a building. Um yeah. But um I think it was just the keyboards that scared a lot of Van Halen fans, like, whoa, what's this? You know, and me in my music, I I like a lot of bands out there that have a keyboard player. It's it it it I think that keyboards are great in hard rock when they're adding to the sound or they make the sound more full or thicker. So I like that. But in jump, that thing was like all keyboards except for the guitar solo.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the best keyboard song that they made was uh well was Sammy, but uh right now.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that that's keyboards were phenomenal. Yeah, no, that's right now. That's yeah, a tremendous song.

SPEAKER_01

That was a phenomenal song, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Phenomenal song and off a great record, too. All right, so um, okay, so 1984 is in the sixth spot. What uh what do you got for five? Uh Diver Down. Dang, did you like look at my list? I think Craig was cheating here.

SPEAKER_01

He's looking at my list here. I think we know our Van Halen down so fast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I so I I did. I had Diver Down in that in that uh uh fifth spot. Um I think like I said, I like the stuff on um Diver Down. I I like that stuff, but I think when you look at what came before it, it's just like wow.

SPEAKER_01

I I love that song on Little Guitars. Yeah, that is amazing song. Absolutely. Um yeah, it's just so it but it's like And I hang them high and full bug.

SPEAKER_00

I mean But are you gonna put Diver down ahead of, you know No, you can't. There you go. So it has to go there. So it has to go there. All right, so uh in the four spot.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I put women and children first.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Which is not in order, but I don't know, that's a tough one. I could easily switch that to third, but okay. I don't know. I I really liked uh that song, Hear About It Later.

SPEAKER_00

All right.

SPEAKER_01

Have you listened to that song?

SPEAKER_00

Uh not in ages. I haven't I haven't listened to Women and Children first in ages either.

SPEAKER_01

It's kind of dark, but it's you know, for um It really it has a good, really good buildup and it comes down really well.

SPEAKER_00

For um a lot of the hardcore Van Halen fans, women and children would probably be number two behind the debut. Actually, some of them even might even put it ahead of the debut album.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I can't put it above number one, but between Van Halen 2, uh Women and Children First, and Fair Warning. Uh I don't even know if I can you can you could move them around and still Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, isn't that the great part? Is you could move these around and change the order and all that and still not be disappointed. You know, still, you know. But but yeah, I mean, because Women and Children is probably like you know, it might be one of the heaviest albums. It's a very heavy album, it's very, very heavy.

SPEAKER_01

Um I don't well, um Romeo Delight, and there was another song pretty melodic.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, heavy, I don't when I say heavy, I don't mean it takes away from any any melody or well, everybody wants some.

SPEAKER_01

That's not uh it has some melodic in it, but it's and Mean Street is pretty hardcore.

SPEAKER_00

That's yeah. Um, okay, so that you have uh that's your number four. My number four was Van Halen 2. So that was yeah, that was my number four. You're wrong.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just trying to spice it out. That's okay. The heart ones with the heart ones, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's all right. I just um yeah, uh no no particular reason. Like I said, I I don't know if you can get the order wrong in this at all, but uh no, I you know, I I'm I was joking with you.

SPEAKER_01

I can't even say it wrong for for saying that, but I don't know, but somebody get me a duck and get her alive. I I had to put it number two.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I just so what's your okay, so I'm not saying you're wrong either. All right, so Van Halen 2 is my number uh my number four. What's your number three? Uh Fair Warning. Okay, and in for a lot of musicians, especially guitar players, that would they tend to lean towards Fair Warning. Um and sort of say that was their dark album. I was just gonna say they considered to be the dark album. I I I really like Fair Warning. I like Fair Warning a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think Unchained is um Man, so good. It's about I think it's about the music business. Okay. Have you ever listened to the words?

SPEAKER_00

I um yeah, I'm just uh trying to correlate that to the music business, but man, what a killer song.

SPEAKER_01

That it that that well, I think Van Halen might have gotten screwed on their first two albums financially.

SPEAKER_00

They wouldn't be the only band. Yeah, it wouldn't be and probably won't be the last. Yeah, certainly wouldn't be the only band that got got it, took it in the shorts. Uh so you've got um what was your number three again? Fair Warning. Fair Warning, yeah, that's right. And my number three was women and children. Um yeah, okay. And like I said, it's just a there's a lot of great stuff off of women. There's a lot of great stuff, like I already said, how can you go wrong with the first four albums and even you can extend it out to the first six? You just can't go wrong.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the other thing too I was gonna bring up is when when bands make greatest hit albums, sometimes they leave their best song off of it. You do you know why? No, so they'll go buy the other albums. That's a marketing thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, you know, you know, uh when when uh Van Halen put that greatest hits package out, the what is it, Greatest Hits Volume 1 back in the mid-90s? Um, that was something Sammy didn't want to do. That had a lot to do with him and him and the differences between the between the Van Halen brothers uh just started to wear too thin, and then they wanted to put out a uh greatest hits, and Sammy was like, Greatest hits, we're not done. Why would we put out a greatest hits?

SPEAKER_01

You know that book that Alex just came out with, Brothers?

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

He says the original Van Halen was the best, and he doesn't even bring up Sammy.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that it that is true. No, I haven't read the book, but yes, I hear a lot of people talk about it. The first 24 pages, but I hear now some people thought, wow, that's a slight on Sammy. You know, what's going on? Because we know there's still beef between Alex and Sammy, and I don't even know why. And and you know, Sam, I've heard Sammy in interviews say he doesn't know why, but maybe he maybe he does, and he just doesn't want to say, so I'm not sure. But the bottom line is when the book was released and and there was talk about wow, Sammy doesn't even get a mention, but the book ends at 1984, though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, um I think well, you know that uh Alex and Eddie, their dad was a musician, right? Yes, and he taught them about the business part. Like they would play shows uh I think with their dad or before their dad or something, and they put out a hat and people would put money in the hat. And then the dad would take the money and there'd be about a hundred bucks in there and he'd give five to Eddie and five to Alex. I don't know, it could have been 10 bucks, and they're like, What's this? Because that's the music business, boys.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01

So they were that probably made them shrewd you yeah, yeah. And in the short 24 pages that I did with the book, the dad also told them that when people come to see you live, they don't come to hear your music, they come to see you. So you better put on a show, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, you should give the people what they want too.

SPEAKER_01

I think Roth must must have heard that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he might have overheard that conversation. So um uh yeah, so I think when it comes to Alex's book, and there's also been speculation that, oh, well, now there's there's there's the possibility of a second book, and that would pick up where this one leaves off. There's been that running around a little bit too. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01

But but I think probably Eddie and Alex, they probably felt like it was their band, and I think they're just pretty shrewd.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And and and I think over the years, you know, over the even the early years, um, as time went on, and maybe they even became more successful, they wanted to take more control over the band. Where yes, it was their name, um, but it was split equally. No, it was Ross. Was it? He said, because it sounds so good, because it has a good name to it, or it has a good uh ring to it.

SPEAKER_01

And he was right, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, yeah. It does have a good ring to it.

SPEAKER_01

And um what uh the other names that they were gonna call the bat band, I think they were gonna call it Genesis.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I thought I heard something like that, and then there was a rat salad, and then and then there was mammoth. Yeah, mammoth is when they before they actually changed the name to Van Halen when they but now Wolfgang calls his band and that's uh that's certainly a tribute to his dad. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. But no, I don't think I realize it was uh it was David Lee Roth that that insisted they use the Van Halen name. You know, when you hear the name, I know even back in the 70s Van Halen, you don't think it's someone's last name.

SPEAKER_01

No, you it just sounds bitching.

SPEAKER_00

Right, it actually has a really, really cool ring to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that was actually really like when Roth used to say if you if you buy a Van Halen album, you put it with all your other albums, it'll melt the other ones. And David Lee Ross said, he goes, I I don't think if we would have called ourselves the Roths, it would have had a good ring to it.

SPEAKER_00

Probably not. Probably not, no matter what.

SPEAKER_01

I mean David Lee Ross sure had a good ring. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, all right. Uh are we up to number two? We boy, we're straying. We're up to number two on on your list.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I went with Van Halen too.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. You went with Van Halen too. And I went with the dark album, Fair Warning. I like that. I like Mean Streets and and uh was it um um dirty movies and oh really? Yeah, I like that. I I do, I like that. Yeah. Uh it's just uh yeah, it's a good record, good record. So I guess there's probably no suspense here as to what our number one would be. And that would be Van Halen the debut album, yeah. You know, I think that's um it's just the one that, like I said, it set the table for everything. And um it's just um not that the other albums aren't iconic because I do believe that they are iconic, but this was like this was the one that put this band on the map, and it left an indelible imprint, and it's just it was it's a it's a a a time in history, and it's like this date in history, and you don't forget this date in history.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't think there'll ever be another album album as good as that one, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and look, there may not be. I mean, um, I don't know, maybe maybe I maybe I do a show one time, the top ten debut albums, I don't know. But you know, you yeah, just um tremendous the songs, the attitude behind it. Uh a very, very hungry band that knew exactly what they wanted and how they were gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01

Did you know there was a band that came out and they they said that they were the next Van Halen?

SPEAKER_00

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're gonna tell I want you to tell me. I I know I I know I have heard this. Uh there we get it.

SPEAKER_01

I like them.

SPEAKER_00

You tell me.

SPEAKER_01

Bullet boys.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, the bullet boys, yeah. I do like the bullet boys. They're not the next man, Halen. But I do like that's what they were saying. They can't even hold themselves together. So they don't get along. No, they don't get along.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I have a friend that he uh owns some apartments, and the drummer was one of his tenants.

SPEAKER_00

Did he pay his rent?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, he he was he was a good tenant, but um I think the lead singer started hoarding the money.

SPEAKER_00

Mark Torian, very talented guy, very talented guy. I think the drummer was Joey Deander or something like that. I think you're right. I think you're right. But uh yeah, well, the original lineup has come back together for like the third or fourth time. So who's that? Oh the bullet boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, because they get they they get um events that they they want to do, and they're they're like, we're not gonna do it unless all the original members.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you get you can get you can get bigger guarantees if you've got the original the original members of your band. So um, yeah, so uh okay, so that's our that's our top seven. That's our our ranking on the albums. I'm not gonna go through the songs. That's okay. We don't have to do a top ten song. That's too hard.

SPEAKER_01

You're not gonna sing them all.

Legacy, Loss, And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00

I'm not gonna sing them either, no. But um, yeah, you know, I will say this, sort of in closing, I I do. I I like this band. It took me a while for them to for me to get on board. Um and you're growing. Well, you know, here okay, here's the thing. It's not even closing. Here's the thing is that um like when we were in during our high school years, I was exploring a lot of different music because I would be listening to top 40 radio a lot, and and during that time we had a lot coming in on top 40, whether you had rock, country. Uh really I didn't listen to country that much back then. Like uh uh, you know, dance or RB music. We had a lot of new wave coming in, all that stuff. But it would cross over onto the top 40 stations, you know, a little bit of like Ronnie Millsap or Kenny Rogers, Juice Newton, Dolly Parton was on the chart, Eddie Rabbit, you know, those artists were were making their you know names known on top 40 stations. Everybody knew them on the country stations, but they were just crossing over. So you had that mix of music. So I was taking a lot of different stuff. It helped to broaden my my um I don't know, my musicality. I certainly know my my my musical taste. It helped to broaden that, helped to bring a lot of stuff into the you know, uh stuff that I hadn't even uh paid attention to in the past. And um so I'm liking all this different stuff, and even in 1984, I still wasn't all in on Van Halen. I like stuff here and there, but I wasn't all in on them. And I think it was be because of the fact I wasn't all in on them, like when 1984 hits and jump is just screaming up the chart and it's just the biggest song. I'm like, I I can't stand this. I can't stand it. I don't know, I don't want to, you know, you know, and and uh I I I wasn't a fan of it, but um, but I certainly have, you know, over the years really be you know come to to like, appreciate, and and well, more than appreciate what Van Halen has done over their over you know the 50 almost 50 years of their life.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think a lot of people didn't realize how great he was until he was gone.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think a lot of people realize how great Eddie was.

SPEAKER_01

When he died, my sister sent me a text and said, Are you okay? Did she really?

SPEAKER_00

Wow, that's great. How nice of her to do that.

SPEAKER_01

He wasn't a personal friend, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00

I but I understand that. I mean, remember when we were in when we were in high school, we were um it was our freshman year of high school when John Lennon was murdered. And how many Yeah. Oh, I thought I was Oh no, no, no, I'm sorry, it was our our sophomore year high school. It was 1980, it was our sophomore year high school. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I thought it was before that.

SPEAKER_00

No, 1980. And uh how many how many kids at school the next day were upset about it, you know, when John Bonham died, you know, how many kids at school? Yeah, how many kids at school were upset? Um I wasn't I remember seeing kids upset. There were just they were iconic figures to us, and we were so much younger as well, too. But these are people that these were artists that that we were admiring their music. We were, you know, uh and and just beginning to grow.

SPEAKER_01

You know what's weird is uh John Bonham was only 27 when he died.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. That's so young, very, very young. Bon Scott, 27, you know. Uh no, no, no. I think Bon Scott was a little bit older. I think Bon Scott was competing. He was a little bit older because I think self-induced. Yeah, yeah. He was, I think Bond was the oldest guy in the band, too, at that time. So, but you know, uh yeah, it just you know, like the the Van Halen legacy will always be there. And um I appreciate you very much coming in today just to talk about it, share some of your, you know, some of your uh your your your wit your wisdom stories. Uh this is a good time, yeah. So lucky. He's so lucky to be here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I feel famous. Did I tell you did I tell you I was gonna be a singer?

SPEAKER_00

No, you did not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I had everything it took except good looks and a voice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you'll find Craig at the comedy store, okay, on Friday evenings.

SPEAKER_01

He's got two shows. All right. Could we do a show with my jokes?

SPEAKER_00

Man. Well, look.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I got that from uh a guy that used to work for my dad in his liquor store. Um, he was a beer-drinking baseball player, you know, hardcore, you know, brawler and stuff. Yeah. And he used to say that. Okay. My dad had a business partner in his store, and uh he was an ex-banker. And every time he'd walk through the door, the same guy would look at him and he goes, Is it true what they say about bankers? He goes, What do they say about bankers? He goes, Not even bankers like bankers.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, geez. Oh, geez. Hey, I don't know if anyone noticed because we're, you know, we're not like right up on the camera, but you see that hat that Craig's got on his head? That's a nice hat, isn't it? Yeah, it's a nice hat. Just look at it. You get them on Amazon? You cannot buy those on Amazon. No, it is my swag. Yes, it's my swag.

SPEAKER_01

Get them at Orchards once a month. Yeah.

Final Thanks And How To Support

SPEAKER_00

If you're special, if you're special, I give them to you. If you're not so special, you may have to buy one. And if you're it and if you're if you're not special and you buy one, you just hit the special list. You just made the specialist. So yeah, if you want to buy them, you can always inquire and leave it in the comments or call me, text me, email me, whatever. The only people that watch or listen to this podcast have my cell phone number. So there. Anyways, uh, look, this has been fun though, Craig. It's been yeah, no, you're welcome. We talked about it for like a year.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for that cronut this morning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's my ple my pleasure. Um, so uh as you guys know, this program is available wherever you get your podcast. Just search the Ben Maynard program. Boom, it's right there. Go with it. Uh download it, share it with all your people. Okay, you can subscribe to it as well. All right. But if you've had some fun with this here back and forth, and you're watching on YouTube, thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it. But subscribe to the channel, all right. I I'm I'm looking for more subscribers. So subscribe, hit the notification bell, all right? Give me a thumbs up and leave a comment, all right? Then tell a thousand of your family and friends. All right, last but not least, follow me on Instagram, simply Ben Maynard Program, all one word, or on the TikTok at the Ben Maynard program. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks for being here, guys. Uh, we're gonna cut you loose, get out of here, enjoy the rest of your day. This is the Ben Maynard program. Tell a friend.