Harmon Solar Podcast
The solar energy sector in Arizona is currently oversaturated, which has led to a scarcity of transparency. In response, we've created a podcast to provide an honest perspective on going solar in the state. Join us as we explore the intricacies of utilities, equipment, processes, and more. Our primary objective is to educate and empower you to make informed decisions on your solar journey.
Harmon Solar Podcast
Let's Talk to a Tax Professional
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Confused about how solar affects your taxes? You're not alone. In this eye-opening episode, tax expert Bill Spahr pulls back the curtain on one of the most misunderstood aspects of going solar – the tax implications.
When salespeople throw around terms like "tax rebate" instead of "tax credit," it's more than just semantics – it could mean thousands of dollars of difference in your expectations. Bill breaks down exactly what the Federal Investment Tax Credit (ITC) is, how it works, and why you need to understand your tax liability before making solar decisions.
The solar energy market has become increasingly saturated, leading to widespread misinformation and a lack of transparency. Welcome to the HarmanSolar podcast, offering a straightforward, honest perspective on going solar. Each episode dives into key topics to help you better understand the industry. Our goal is to educate and empower you to make informed decisions about solar energy. While solar may not be the right fit for everyone, we believe everyone should take the time to explore it. Our mission is to increase your knowledge, not your bills.
Speaker 2Our guest today is Bill Spahr of ARP Tax and Estate Planning. In this episode, we're diving into the critical details of how solar affects your taxes From understanding the Federal Investment Tax, credit, itc, to the importance of timing, ownership and installation specifics. Bill breaks down exactly what's involved and what's eligible, so you can make smarter decisions when going solar.
Speaker 3Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar Podcast. I'm Rob Fremano, vp of Sales and Marketing at Harman Solar, and with me, as always, my friend, my partner. I did say friend, yes.
Speaker 4Should I say that it's an upgrade from last week. It is because I said you weren't my friend, I know right, that was horrible.
Speaker 3That was mean. A lot can change in a week. That was mean. I was in a bad mood. That's right. I'm married, ben Walschlager, who you guys also know as Mr Everything. Ben, welcome back. It's good to be here.
Speaker 4Is it good it is. It always is good for you. We have a very special guest, someone that we've wanted to bring on for a long, long time.
Speaker 3We've been talking about bringing on a tax professional, because we absolutely are not tax professionals and we get asked every day about the tax side of this and we can give you our opinion. But it's not Harmon's opinion, it's my personal opinion, which was worth nothing when it comes to this because I'm not an expert and you're not an expert. So I'm going to start off by saying Harmon Solar is not a tax professional. Yeah, we have the flashing tax. Right, we are not going to give you. This is a podcast for you to get a one man's opinion in the industry an expert in the industry on how he does it and what he does, and then you can talk to him. Yeah, it might be a good idea.
Speaker 4So we're not a tax expert, so we brought one.
Introducing Bill
Speaker 3We did so. Today we have Bill Spahr of ARP Tax and Estate Planning. Right, Correct, I got it. Thank you, Welcome. Bill Spahr ARP Tax and Estate Planning. Bill Spahr ARP Tax and Estate Planning. All right, you're done for the day. Okay, bye.
Speaker 2Have a good day.
Speaker 3Thanks for joining us. We really appreciate you coming out and talking about this topic because, again, this is something we get asked every day almost. Thank you, I appreciate that, so we really need you to help us through this. So I'm going to let you start, sure sure?
Speaker 5So go ahead, tell us a little bit about who you, how long have you been in the business, what you do, all that stuff Been in the financial advising world for 25 years and we created the tax office about 17 years ago, and so we've been doing retail taxes for individuals, corporate businesses, small, large. We're nationwide, all 50 states and we're capable of handling virtually anything. If we can't, we have the wherewithal to say we can't, and if we can, we say we can. So we want to be as honest to the public as possible.
Speaker 3Okay, With that. What sets you apart from going to one of these big guys like the H&R blocks of the world or doing it online and going to one of those things? What makes you?
Speaker 4Because I can do a TurboTax in about 15 minutes. I'm done.
Speaker 3True, he's in jail the next year but, you probably can.
Speaker 5So, why should someone go to you Exactly? Well, what I tell most of the people that come to us is that one we're usually more affordable and so we don't want to discount our price and therefore discount the service. Discount our price and therefore discount the service, but at the same time we don't have to charge exorbitant fees to put Super Bowl ads up and make sure that they're going to the masses.
Speaker 5So we are a specialized firm. We do want to make sure that we stay small enough to remember your name and that it's not just pulling a number like going to Baskin Robbins. We want to make sure that you come in. We're an open-door policy. We tell everyone if you're just driving down the street and you need a soda, stop in. We've got tons of them. Just come get them, whatever you want. So we want to make sure that we separate ourselves from being nice and then we separate ourselves on the quality of work that we do, and so we do regular mom pop type individual returns all the way up to again to corporate and, however that looks, I like that.
Speaker 4I mean you can get solar from 50 other companies in the Valley, but you know it's. It's who you're working with, who you're dealing with. You know who you want to go into business with.
Speaker 3It's a common theme on this podcast, I know right.
Speaker 4We're, we're very, you know, local mom and pop shop with everything that we do.
Speaker 3So I think one of the big things in the solar industry a tendency that salespeople, whether they're just honest, dishonest or just not informed. One of the things I typically will tell people is you're getting this tax rebate, not a tax credit. So can you kind of explain to our audience the difference between a tax rebate and a tax credit?
Speaker 5Yeah, and so I brought notes with me from the IRS.
Speaker 3Okay, perfect.
Speaker 5So that, when we're speaking, we're not just making fluff. Right, because there is a difference. Sure, and so I should have brought my glasses. But tax credits are, you know, credit against the taxes owed? Okay, right. A rebate means you're expecting someone to send you a check back. Right, and virtually all solar is tax credits. Yes, not rebates. Right, and so that's an important function that people need to understand.
Speaker 4Right. I don't know if these new solar reps who are out there selling. If it's, I don't think they're being malicious, I just think. I don't think so. I just think they're not informed. It sounds great. That's oh, someone's going to write you a check and you know, here you go, Go to Vegas, Go go to Hawaii with this tax rebate, this tax check that you're going to be getting. You know it's a great selling tactic, but at the same time, that's it's dishonest, I think.
Sales People Being Trained Wrong
What is a Tax Liability?
Speaker 3A lot, a lot of people I don't want to say a lot. There are people out there I know this for a fact that are training these younger guys. That that's how it works. It's a rebate, right. You know that you're going to get this check from the government. I mean I've had people, I'm going to get this 15. No, no, you're not. You're not getting a check. Right, you have to have a liability to get a check. I mean not to get a credit Correct, to cover that liability. So I talk to people all the time I say do you understand what a tax liability is? How does that work when you do your taxes every year? Can you explain to the layman person who's just like what do you mean by a liability when I do my taxes? I don't understand any of this.
Speaker 5This is Chinese to me Kind of get into that basic stuff.
Speaker 5I actually use the industry of reverse mortgages as a good tool here is because when someone does a reverse mortgage, they think that the mortgage company is going to be sending them money, and that's false. When you do a reverse mortgage, all you're doing is saving the amount that you were putting in. So let's say, for instance, your mortgage is three grand a month. When you do a reverse mortgage, you're not paying the three grand a month, so you're saving 3,000 a month. That's what people get misunderstood about. They think that they're going to get the 3,000. No, they're just going to save 3,000, which effectively stays in their pocket. That still works. That's still a benefit, right? The solar works the same way. A credit and a rebate A credit goes against the amount that is owed, as opposed to rebate is. Oh, I'm getting it like if you get a tax refund, right? Tax refund is you put too much in. Now the government owes you money back. Yeah, that's a refund.
Speaker 4Yeah, typically when I talk with customers cause, I always tell them my little disclaimer I'm not a tax expert, but when you do your taxes, do you end up paying the government or do you get a refund. And you know, majority of the time people are like oh, I get a refund, okay, well then you don't owe anything.
Speaker 3You have no liability.
Speaker 4You have no liability. You get a refund, this tax credit.
Speaker 5Yes, Right, and and again. That's another thing that people don't understand is is that when you're getting money back from the government, all you've done is given them an interest-free loan? Right, you gave them more, you gave them more. Now they're giving back to you without any interest.
Speaker 3Wow, that's a really good way of looking at it and that's very depressing. Yeah, yeah, I've never thought about that.
Speaker 4Yeah, it's an interest-free loan to the government yeah, the best scenario when you are doing your taxes is to just, you know, net wash.
Speaker 5You don't only think, you don't get anything back, everything was zero we're a fan of actually having you pay a little bit, yeah, and that keeps the red flan, the proverbial red flag, down. Okay, if you want, give them 500 bucks, a thousand, even just a couple of grand. Most people can afford that. And what that does is, for the most part and let's hope this stays true it keeps the red flag down.
Speaker 3Interesting.
Speaker 5Especially for their, the self-employed. Yeah, right, cause we have some clients that have side gigs that we're getting back 10, 20, $30,000 in refunds. All that does is say, hey, mr Irish guy, come, come, check me out, why am I getting that much back? Right, yeah, and so you know, we're just, we can only input the information that you give us, right, right, and our job is to make sure that you don't go to jail?
Speaker 4Yeah, it was. It's always weird seeing you know friends, you know family, whatever they say like, oh, I'm getting, I'm getting an $8,000 refund. You know what you just did? Right, you just gave the IRS $8,000 extra that you may or may not need it to do that, so they're refunding you the money that you gave them, which you could have put somewhere else and invested Exactly.
Speaker 5You could have put somewhere else. And most people say, well, it's for savings, okay, for savings that you've got a zero rate of return on Right, right and it's your money. Well, don't you need that $8,000 during the year.
Speaker 4I like your analogy that you gave them a loan. Yeah, an interest-free loan, interest-free loan.
Speaker 3So for our purposes in solar, there's different ways you can go solar right. The best and always best way is cash right. People that buy the systems cash. Now they get the tax credit. If they have the liability that was, they can take advantage of that tax credit, the 30%, if they don't have the liability, they can also adjust how they're getting paid and maybe take a little bit more for themselves. Right now, this is what I'm assuming this is what I talk to people about.
Speaker 3Take a little more right ahead and help you pay that back, though it reduces the amount you owe, so that I'm I'm right on right, right on.
Speaker 4Yep, man, that's what. That's right. That's what I tell people. Like, when you do your taxes, do you get a refund, or do you, you know, end up paying? I get a refund, okay. Well then you might need to change a few things, correct, because you know you have this tax credit coming from your solar system. You might need to put a little bit more money in your pocket to offset that tax credit and you'd be surprised the amount of people that don't bring us their paperwork.
Speaker 5Yeah, or we're already done with their taxes. I'm like, oh my gosh, I forgot the solar, really.
Speaker 4I forgot that $15,000 tax credit.
Speaker 5Exactly what is that going to do to your bottom?
Speaker 3line Right, Right.
How Financing Affects Solar Tax Benefits and Re-amortization Impact on Payment!!!!
Speaker 1So that's one two would be financing deal.
Speaker 3Not always the best way to go, but there are some good financing options out there.
Speaker 4But it's the same scenario correct.
Speaker 3You're just bringing that paperwork to you saying, okay, I financed this blah, blah blah, I am eligible for the tax credit. Exactly, let's talk about financing, though.
Speaker 4Go ahead. What happens, so you get that monthly payment? I'm paying $200 a month for my solar system in the first month.
Speaker 3Are you aware of how solar financing works? Not really. Okay, we're going to. This is going to be perfect.
Speaker 4Blow your mind. Read the fine print on that, on that, that contract. So you start off. You know when your system's installed, turned on, whatever you're paying. Let's just say $200 a month. Again, every house is different. Don't be like solar is 200. No that that specific system is $200 a month. So $200 a month, that's assuming that you're going to be putting that tax credit back into the loan In 18 months. In 18 months. So the check that you get in the mail that actually doesn't exist, that never shows up. That never shows up. You have to put that money back into the loan to keep your payments at $200 a month In 18 months. After 18 months, if you don't put that money back into the loan, that tax credit back into the loan, your payments go up. That too becomes 285.
Speaker 3285, yeah, for the next 23 and a half years.
Speaker 4So that's what a lot of people. Again, they're uneducated with their taxes and how the loan works and they don't read the fine print. And then 18, 18 months later they go. Why did my loan payment go up? Like well, when you did your taxes, you did your tax credit. What did you do with that extra money that you were putting in your pocket throughout the year? Uh, what?
Speaker 3and I'm wondering, now that you're saying that, I mean, we know this is a big problem. I'm wondering if people that you work with that have financed their solar, if they even realize that when they're getting it, do they have you run into that? You already said it.
Speaker 5The sales guys are not educating their clients. All they're trying to do is sell the product. They're not fully disclosing all of the fine print, as you mentioned earlier, and so when they come to us, or even to you guys, after the fact they've been completely mishandled, they had no clue.
Speaker 4No clue fact they've been completely uh mishandled. They had no clue no clue they didn't realize re-amortizes. And now guess what?
Speaker 3now you'll more now I will say let's. Let's be honest here, right? Yes, maybe a sales guy didn't go into it and there are some guys that did it because they're not smart enough to understand it or they just they were trying to be dirty but as a consumer, you also need to read your contract, absolutely if, and if you read the financial document, it states very clearly that this happens. It's there and it's in big, bold.
Speaker 4I mean it's there If you're going through that electronic signature and just click design, click design click design. That's a bad idea Like okay, you-.
Speaker 3I don't care what you're buying. That's a bad idea.
Speaker 5I agree, be a plant. If you're going to plant it and water it and take care of it, don't buy it.
Speaker 3Right, absolutely Right. See, I told you that when I purchased these yeah, he didn't read the fine print, he just purchased it, you know.
A Better Finance Product
Speaker 4So again, I think that all sole reps should be talking to the homeowners like, oh, I want to purchase it, I want to finance it. Like, okay, do you have a tax liability? It doesn't matter. Like, well, no, it does, because your loan payment is going to be adjusted if you're not doing it correctly. So in some cases, you know and this is something that we talk about a lot of the podcasts we tell people, you know, solar may not be for everyone, but everyone should at least take a look. So in that specific situation, maybe a finance purchase isn't good for you, maybe a lease is good for you. You know so, because lease you don't have to worry about necessarily the tax credits.
Speaker 3There are loan products now, though, I can think of one in particular where what they do is the payment that they offer you up front is worst case scenario. Yeah, as if you didn't put in the money back in the tax.
Speaker 4Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 3I like that product because you're already starting. You can't get any worse, right, right, if you put money into it and they allow they allow you three separate times over to life alone to put money back into it, to make the payment go down. So that's a better product, I mean for your customer, our customer. At least they know, hey, I can afford this payment.
Speaker 4Right, it's full transparency.
Speaker 3And I can also make it better for myself if I want to go ahead and do that.
Speaker 4It's only going to be. It's only going to be lower later.
Speaker 3It's a fairer product Right. I think it's one where it's hard. It's hard to misrepresent.
Speaker 5Yeah, and again it goes back to the sales guy. He should be highlighting, sure, either in hard copy or you know, showing them exactly that this is the way that this is, and here's your opportunity to make it lower. Yeah, this is when you do it. At that point I would even say assist job to call the client and say, hey, next month your payment could go down. What are you going to do about it?
Speaker 3if anything, yeah, and then good points. And then the third thing is a lease we just kind of touched on a lease. And obviously leases are. I'm sure you've had people come to you and say I've got a lease, what's my tax credit?
Speaker 5There's none Right, because they don't own it, they're just, they're, they're renting it, right? That's exactly right.
Other Types of Tax Credits
Speaker 4So again, it depends on you and your situation. If you're somebody who like, oh, I always get a refund, I like getting a refund, I'm not going to change anything, okay. Well, then leasing might be best for you yeah, don't finance your system, yeah. Or if you're someone like, oh, I always end up owing a lot, okay, well, maybe leasing isn't for you. Financing is for you, because now you get these tax credits coming to you and you're prepared for it.
Speaker 3And this goes from I'm sure you're seeing now in today's world, you're seeing people that get EV credits. Yep, they're getting. Um, what else is there? Oh, the utilities. Uh like, for instance, I just my AC just went out over the weekend so I had to buy a brand new AC system and it actually comes with a $2,000 tax credit. Yeah, and I was, cause it's so efficient.
Speaker 5I was like you got to have energy star in which to do that?
Speaker 3Yeah, and it's like a super efficient system. So it has this tax. I'm like that's phenomenal.
Speaker 5Yeah.
Speaker 3I have a liability, so that works for me, right.
Speaker 5So I'm sure you see all that stuff in new ACs. We replaced every single window and so part of our savings is the reduction in energy. So there's the first benefit and we're seeing it greatly. But we also got tax credits for all new windows which are high energy efficient, the air conditioners, low flow toilets, so on and so forth.
Speaker 3All of those things work I like it. Yeah, you get tax credits. You get rebates from the utilities sometimes for that stuff.
Speaker 4Yeah, Do you find that homeowners just give you that information, or do you kind of have to like, probably, like did you do this? Did you get a new refrigerator? Did you do windows?
Speaker 5Have you ever heard of a can opener? Yeah, we're constantly can opening these people to get things to get questions out of it. So you know we are, we are fact finders, yeah, so when a new client comes in actually every client, regardless if you're new or repeated we have a seven page intake form that you must fill out every single year, because the government requires us to do that, to have updated information.
Speaker 5Yeah, in our files every year, let me see your driver's license, let me see your this, and we already have that stuff. You're right, we do, but we don't know what's changed from last year to this year. Neither does the government, and we're extensions of the irs effectively, because we, if we get audited and we don't have that information, then we get in trouble and then our licenses are at risk yeah so we're not going to do that, I'm not going to cover
Speaker 5a lot licenses are at risk, yeah. So we're not going to do that. I'm not going to cover a lot, a lot, and I'm not going to put you know the lives of my employees and their licenses that they've worked for on the line just because it makes sense.
Speaker 3I'm sure you I'm not sure how many people you actually get on a tax season basis that have solar. I'm sure there's a small percentage right, it's pretty small is it pretty small?
Speaker 5it is, yeah, and I would say, the 600 we have, I would say there's a small percentage. Right, it's pretty small. Is it pretty small? It is, and I would say, of the 600 we have, I would say there's probably 20. Oh, wow, it's small.
Speaker 3That's kind of surprising in Arizona actually, yeah.
Speaker 5And in our fact-finding. It's right there in bold Do you have solar? Do you have an EV? Tell us about what you're doing. Did you do construction on your home? Do you own an Airbnb? All of those things we can dramatically affect what your tax outcome is.
Speaker 3Of those 20, I know this is a shock, but of those 20 people that come in, how many of them do you think you actually give them shock therapy? Because they're like, I didn't know that it worked this way.
Speaker 5Half Half, wow. And half of those are the ones that don't even bring their paperwork in. Yeah, so we're constantly asking for stuff, and so we're always upgrading our systems to communicate, whether we forget to ask questions or not. Yeah, half Half, yeah.
Speaker 4I mean, it's all about education, you know, just educating the homeowner, and that's what we do at the podcast and that's what you do with your business, absolutely so like educating the homeowner and that's what we do at the podcast and that's what you do with your business. So like we need to educate people so that they are making informed decisions and not getting taken advantage of, like you have this solar system or you have this ev. Like yeah, you have these credits, let's get them to you the right way you know, and just like the irs, ignorance is not an answer no, that's right, you can't plead.
Speaker 5Ignorant, you can't plead. I didn't know. It's caveat emptor. You need to know. Whether you want to or not, it's your responsibility, right.
Speaker 3How does it work on a rental home if you have a rental home and you put solar on it?
Speaker 5Owner has to live in the home in order to get the benefit.
Speaker 3Hmm.
Speaker 5Do you hear?
Speaker 4that, guys, you have to live in the home.
Speaker 5I didn't know that you have to live in the home. I kind of assumed that.
Speaker 4I've heard that. Yeah, it's an assumption.
Speaker 3So if that's not my primary residence, it does not qualify for the tax credit.
Speaker 5The renter gets the benefit for the lower pricing, the lower fee each month.
Speaker 3The lower yield utility.
Speaker 5And so if you're charging $2,000 all in and everything's included in that, but you're getting the benefit as the owner, then you're making the spread.
Speaker 4Right, okay. Similar question I'm not renting out a home, I just have multiple vacation homes and I have solar on each one. Same Same thing.
Speaker 5You're getting the benefit of the reduced energy cost gotcha, as opposed to the tax benefit. Now, um, you can find living in the home.
Speaker 4Yeah, it does.
Speaker 5Six months or more, I assume it has to be a majority of the year, it's probably full-time, but at least six months on a day, okay, you know. So that is considered full-time, right, but you know, in order to because we do get those snowbirds.
Speaker 4Absolutely, we have. We have a lot of snowbirds here in the valley. They'll come here. Yeah, you know. They want solar for the nine months that they live here, but then they're gone in the summertime.
Speaker 5So so if you do have airbnbs and you are installing, you're going to pay for it then you can obviously use that as an expense yeah, I'm sure a lot of people Just like if you own a business, you've got stuff on top and it's an expense which will help in the taxes. Anyways, it's just a write-off.
When does my system Qualify? Installed? Commissioned?
Speaker 3If I have a solar installed in this year 2025, in calendar year. So I wanted to find this is a very big question that has a million different answers to it. If you ask people when, at what point does it qualify to get the credit? Does it have to be installed? Do I just have to have purchased it? But it's not installed yet? Does it have to be commissioned and turned on? Is there a point at which you would say, yep, you're good to qualify? I believe it's when it's installed. So if it's on the roof, does it have to be turned on? In your opinion?
Speaker 4You're getting the benefit? Yeah, because there's lots of different stages. What's so? It could be on the roof, but then the utility company has to come out and do their inspection, city has to come out and do their inspection, and we have to come out and turn. You know there's a lot of different. Yeah, just on the roof doesn't mean it's turned on, but okay.
Speaker 3So your opinion how you interpret the code is. If it's glass on roof, as we call it, it's qualified. You would go ahead and get help them with the credit. I would start to discount it.
Speaker 5Okay, so with that said, how many days or weeks or months before it's actually turned on from the time it's installed?
Speaker 3Depending on the utility, like for APS, for instance. I think right now they're running four weeks, yeah, so we could have it up there and sit in there for four or five weeks before it ever gets turned on.
Speaker 5Yeah, and then we can estimate what when it was installed as opposed to when it turned on.
Speaker 3Yeah, and a lot of times they won't even get a first payment yet. In fact, if they're financing it Exactly, they typically won't even have a first payment yet, right, but they have it on their roof, they've got the loan for it, it's there, yeah, and you're saying that in your opinion that's good. That'd be 60, 90 days before they get it. Could be that's his opinion, but I kind of agree. I agree with that opinion. I mean, that's kind of where I'm at too, but I know there's other people that say, nope, it has to be commissioned, right, and I'm like I don't think so.
Speaker 4You even get some sales reps or even homeowners like, oh, I signed on december 31st, I signed the contract, so I'm good. Yep, we got those people like you just signed the contract, like, well, I signed it before the deadline, so I'm good, like, no, that's not how it works, I don't think.
Speaker 3I don't think yeah, some people will say well, I've got a stanchion up there, so I got one stanchion right. It started. Installation has started, so that's good. Yeah, talk to your tax bro yeah, that's out of our hands.
Do Upgrades Qualify? Roof? HVAC, Windows?
Speaker 3I, like you, you're pretty solid on your opinion, saying if it's installed, we'll work with it. Yeah, we'll work with it. Yeah, we'll work with it. How about? Okay, so part of solar. I might need to upgrade my service panel. I might need to redo my roof as part of the installation to make this work. Does that qualify for the rebate?
Speaker 5Roof work is not.
Speaker 3I didn't say rebate, I said I meant credit.
Speaker 5I don't think roof work would. You don't think roof work would. But new paint, paint, new panel, electrical panel, would you know? You have to have the panel in order for the thing to work, and so yeah again. We would work with that to make sure that we were trying to get it included but not the roof, not the roof.
Speaker 3Some people say, yes, absolutely the roof, because you need the new roof for the pet, for the things to sit on, and if you don't change the roof, it's going to leak like crazy right, like we won't install on a bad roof.
Speaker 4Yeah, the government is going to go.
Speaker 5You need a roof anyways. You have to have a roof over your head. Government Right, Exactly that's going to be their argument you have to have a roof over your head anyways. So, whether it's good or bad, you have tile or some other material. That's not their problem. I don't think they would understand that. So, I'm going to keep going down that road.
Speaker 3I'm going to keep going down the road.
Speaker 4These are the questions that we get all the time too.
Speaker 3There's other stuff too, so a lot of solar companies now will sell you as part of it and the loan companies allow it. A percentage of the loan can be for an HVAC system. It can be for new windows.
Speaker 4I'm trying to think what else they roll in their swimming pool. I'm just. But the most, two, most common are a new air conditioning system and new windows yeah qualify never heard of that because they roll it all in my caveat I have never heard of that so that you know, people are basically financing a new AC unit and some new windows with their solar system.
Speaker 3Interesting and the loan company is aware of it and they're okay with it. They allow, I think it's up to 40% of the loan to be for energy efficiency items Other than the solar. Other than the solar, yeah, yeah. So they say, because of that, they'll allow the loan Interesting and it's a solar loan, right? So you haven't seen that yet? I'm not. They're probably just not telling you.
Speaker 4Right, right. They'll just say, hey, I have a solar loan, I have a solar system, but let me see your paperwork. You can add that to your sheet. Well, what else did you add to that solar?
Speaker 3loan.
Speaker 4Exactly yeah.
Speaker 3I will guarantee you that, out of those 20 people Interesting, yeah, see, now we're going to help him.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 5Yeah, and I would assume if it's a rental, that would be great for the owner. Yeah, that's more of a write-off.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5If you're getting able to do all of them at the same time.
Speaker 3Because, technically, the right air conditioning system could qualify for a credit.
Speaker 5It's going to be Energy Star.
Speaker 3Energy Star, right, yeah, but Windows can qualify for credit, so I guess that's how the loan company is looking at it. These are all energy efficient items that do qualify for credit, so we're just going to roll them all into a solar loan. Yeah.
Speaker 5And they get a bigger loan, which bigger payments, more interest.
Speaker 4They just wrap it all in. That's exactly right. I think I've seen Energy Star pool pumps too. Yes, there's Energy Star pool pumps. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5I've got one. Roll that into the loan.
Speaker 2Variable speed pumps. Yeah, I got one, so that could qualify technically.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4Interesting Landscaping.
Speaker 3Landscaping is not. I have seen Well, oh, oh, oh Landscaping.
Speaker 4There's a well.
Speaker 3You're talking about the watering systems.
Speaker 5Watering and oh okay, didn't even think about landscape lights because you can have the solar panels on the leds and those.
Speaker 4Wow, I didn't think about that one, so you can finance your entire house rolled into the solar loan.
Speaker 3I knew the watering systems because, like there's a company called beehive that has the really energy efficient ones, I've got it, yep, and I got a utility rebate for it, but I never claimed it on my taxes. I should have.
Speaker 5We have a guy who has an electric he's an electrical company and he redid his entire backyard as a showcase, as the showpiece. So he invites prospects to the house to go through his own yard.
Speaker 3Well, that's a right. He's being smart, right.
Speaker 5That's his write-off yeah, we are writing it off of course you are.
Speaker 3That's it. He's doing it the right way. I mean, that's just smart.
Speaker 5Yeah, that's really smart he's double dipping because he also has lg's with solar panels and so he's.
Speaker 4He's showing people how to be way more efficient from all aspects do we need to edit this part out is I was gonna say say, if IRS is watching right now, you'll get his information at the end of the podcast and you'll get his customer's name. Irs has entered the chat IRSgov.
Speaker 3A lot more stuff than I thought that would actually, if I'm going to roll this stuff into a loan. So obviously, when you buy solar, you get a contract and it lists out it definitely for. For us it would list out like you got a service panel upgrade, um, the roof would not. I don't know if it would be on the main contract or not.
Speaker 5It might, and then there's a separate contract for the roof you think that a separate contractor would need to do that work.
Do I need to Provide the Contract?
Speaker 3But like, we do all that, yeah, do that yeah, so we're a roofing contractor, we're an electrician, so we have all those licenses and we do all that. There's a lot of other companies, not necessarily in Phoenix, but in other places around the country, that do that stuff. They do that as well, right? So that's what I'm wondering what would you need to see on a contract, because I'm sure you have to? Is that contract something you have to give as part of the taxes to show hey? Or is it just the form that you're filling?
Speaker 5out. We want the contract, you want the contract. We want the contract to be multiple pages long, and also long as well. So we want to make sure that we're reviewing that as well so that we are informed, because that ultimately will fall on our shoulders, right? So if you do give it to us, it's our responsibility to read it and highlight and make sure, and then we will ask questions back. Did you know? Did you read number nine that says this about your roof, so that they know what's going to happen, and it's usually nine out of ten is no. We didn't read. That sounds about right. Yeah, yeah hmm, okay.
Speaker 3So I'm sure I'm thinking about those 20 people that you do a year, just thinking to myself how many of them didn't have it on their contract and did they probably did a roof, sure, they probably did windows, I mean. So I'll just give you an education. Most of them start with just solar, they start with just solar Just start yeah.
Speaker 3So like, for instance, we have a network of people that we work with. We're the installer for the sales and marketing company. They'll go out and sell solar right. So over the years we've worked with a lot of very interesting people that we stopped working with Because what they would do is jack their commission up to, let's say, instead of this it was, you know, another $10,000, $15,000. And then they would give people the money, or I mean literally give them $10,000.
Speaker 1Rebate. Like a you know what do you call it A cashback rebate? A cashback, A cashback rebate? Right yeah, A cashback rebate right.
Speaker 3Or I saw one guy that bought a guy a car. Wow, I'll never forget that one. Yeah, that's when we got rid of him that day. Other things like that. I mean so all underhanded stuff that you would never know about because it's not anywhere on the contract.
Speaker 5Yeah, and I highly doubt the person is going to say anything to us. Do you think there's, it doesn't matter to us to have that info.
Speaker 3Is there any kind of a red flag, do you think, for, let's say, someone installs a 10K solar system which should cost maybe $30,000 at its peak right, depending on financing Sure sure. I'm talking cash pricing.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3You know about $25,000 to $30,000. Is it a red flag for the IRS where all of a sudden that 10k system costs $75,000, or do they even look at that? Do you think? Yeah, they would have to know price or would you even have a red flag?
Speaker 5I mean, I don't even know if we would have a red flag. But you know, simple math would say you pay 75 grand for you know, 10 pieces of stuff.
Rebating!
Speaker 4I mean it doesn't make any sense at all. Right, what's weird is because I've heard those stories too, too, with the sales rep. You know they're going to add $10,000 to the commission, but then they give that $10,000 to the customer. What they don't realize is you're getting taxed on that $10,000 as your income.
Speaker 5Yeah, so when you're giving your $10,000 to the homeowner.
Speaker 4You get taxed on that $10,000 for your income. True, the homeowner. You get taxed on that $10,000 for your income.
Speaker 3So now, you have to 1099 the homeowner.
Speaker 5You're at a loss, right yeah. And you're not going to 1099 the homeowner, not going to 1099 the homeowner Paper trail Right, but the sales rep is a 1099.
Speaker 3It's a paper trail.
Speaker 4It's a paper trail. The sales rep is a 1099.
Speaker 5Unless he's giving them the after-tax difference. Right, he's going to give them $6,400 instead of $10,000.
Speaker 3Which he's not. Yeah, so he's pulling $3,400. He doesn't understand.
Speaker 4Yeah, he's going to go. I'll add $10,000 to my commission. I'll give you $10,000. Yeah, but then I'm going to.
Speaker 3It's called rebating and it's a thousand up to a thousand dollars, Correct Right. So yeah, we, we, we do.
Speaker 5How does that work? For just educate people on that, it's just auto, it's built. It's built into the IRS. So, like the software that we use, it actually comes preloaded with the things that are pertinent to the state that we're working on. So if we pull up the software and we enter in Arizona, it automatically knows here are the things that will auto load for you. So we'll go through and make sure. So when we come to that page it should be there. Of course we double check it, obviously, but those things are preloaded. It's like our state planning. We do a state planning in all 50 states, right? If we open up the software and we've hit Alabamaama, it knows it's auto loads exactly up to the date so you work in more than arizona, then all 50 states, all 50 states for everything, everything nice.
Speaker 3That's interesting. So I I know that. Um, do you ever do solar from people outside of arizona? Because there's a lot of different. There's states that have a lot better incentives. There's utility that hasn't said there's. There's s? Do you know what an SREC is? Have you ever heard of the SRECs? No, srec is like a. It's in the East Coast, it's more East and Upper Midwest where they. It's almost like a stock exchange in a sense.
Speaker 4Yeah, it's a huge incentive for solar. There's a lot of cases where you can, I know, be With that. It could be actually.
Speaker 3Because, based on the amount of production your solar system produces that year, you get paid X cents per kilowatt hour, right, based on how the price goes up or down every year. And so there's different states where it's so different than Arizona the way they would have to do things.
Speaker 5And is that because we're Sun 365?
Speaker 3The incentives here are very minimal. Right, it's up to $ thousand dollar state and it's a federal and that's it. Yeah, there's nothing else. Utilities used to have it 10 years ago. They would give an incentive, but they don't anymore. That's all. What do you think that is? I have my opinions.
Speaker 4I prefer not to yeah, harman, solar is not a tax expert. We're also not political experts.
Speaker 3Well, they created pools of money back in the day to get people interested in going solar and get it going, yep, and so that pool just started dwindling down over time, but that's all it was, I think back in 2008 or 2009,. The tax credit, not the tax credit, but the incentive was great. I mean so where they just wanted people to start going solar and deploy it on homes, exactly, and I think it got to a point where that fund just ran out. That's really what happened.
Speaker 4So I'll never see it.
Speaker 3What are you so going into today? So here we are. We're sitting here filming this in end of May, beginning of June of 2025. And there's a lot of concern in our industry right now about the tax credit. I'm curious to just to see if you have an opinion on what's going on, or I mean, we have an opinion on what we think it'll do to the industry, but I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
Speaker 5I think that the credit will stay.
Speaker 2Do you?
Speaker 5I do, I think because, yeah, and the reason is because it is only $1,000, right, if it was more and it was causing issues? Well, that's the state credit. State credit, yeah, state credit. I think that it just would. I think it's going to stay around. I think the state credit could stay. What about?
Speaker 4the federal. I also think it'll stay around. I think there's incentive for them to do so. I'm with him. I told you this earlier, like I don't think this is going to go away but I don't think they may adjust the amounts right.
Speaker 5Might, but I doubt it'll go away because you know solar is not new anymore. Solar has proven itself right. Yeah, it's, it's here to stay in some way shape or form. And you guys know, every day technology gets even better on those panels. It's just going to get more efficient.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, and I think there's a lot of companies that have invested a lot of money in the renewables industry, Absolutely All the solar panel plants that they're building and other things like that. I mean they're really trying to make everything American made.
Speaker 1I think president Trump, if you're watching- and I'm sure you are, cause you have nothing better to do. He's watching.
Speaker 3Um, I think you should change it to where um, as long as it's domestic content made in the U? S, then you should have a tax credit on it. I mean, if you want to, your america made. You know, that's the stamp and that's what you're doing and I'm okay with that. Um, I think there's a lot of companies that are getting in line to help do that. Yeah, let's reward that with that tax credit for those, for those companies and for those customers and I email you something on that you did yes, yeah
Speaker 5and that said that, yeah, they're going to reward you for american made and I think they should right.
Speaker 3That makes sense. It makes sense if that's, if that's the ultimate goal, you want to keep manufacturing in this country and everything else, and let's do that. I like that.
Speaker 5I think it's a great idea I think it's a great idea as well, and it doesn't just have to, I mean doesn't have to apply to just solar. I mean absolutely cars, cnc machines, motorcycles, it doesn't matter, as long as manufacturing period.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, I'd rather drive a harley because I know it's made in the us. You know, I want to ride a harley. I don't want to ride, you know, a suzuki yep, and that's just. I like harleys and I like the fact that they're made here and I like that they're loud, you know, and yeah, which makes no sense because I drive an ev, but yeah, didn't you have a bmw?
Speaker 4I don't anymore. I sold it.
Speaker 3Sold it not because of that but it's probably assembled here yeah, but I didn't care about any of that, I just liked my car. But now I bought it. I bought an ev. Yeah right, I never thought I would ever do that in my life because I just I like noise, I like loud. That's me growing up. Right, I was a race car guy. I love that stuff. But now that I'm older and I want more money in my pocket, it made a lot of sense and I enjoy it and he just did the same thing.
Speaker 4He still likes the noise, so I sit in the passenger side of his car and I make engine noises while he's driving.
Speaker 3Well, you just bought a hybrid.
Speaker 4Yeah, plug-in hybrid so you're kind of doing the same. I'm transitioning, you're transitioning. It's a different conversation, but okay, it's a completely different conversation. I think we're going to get to that right now. Wow, so tell us, ben. Next on the agenda.
Speaker 3So there's other things. I mean there's I don't know, but we don't really do hydrogen here, we don't do any of that stuff. So I mean that's more. I don't know if you ever see that stuff you put in tax credits on like no Wind.
Speaker 4Wind turbines.
Speaker 3Wind or hydrogen Never, never, never. That's really popular in the upper Midwest, I know that. Sure, the heating, yeah okay, so I think, what else? What are we missing as far as the solar?
Speaker 4so what? What is that process now? So someone comes to you they say here's my, here's my paperwork. I know I'm getting a tax credit because of this and that. What do you actually do? I'm sure there's forms. I'm sure it has some weird name and number not necessarily forms it's.
Speaker 5It's how you just uh dump it into the, into the software, okay. So there are specific pages within the software that allow us to include that information and once you're inputting all that stuff, it's auto-calculating the whole way through. So once your adjusted gross income is there, which will include that solar break, that solar credit, then you go into what it'll do to the bottom line. Okay. Then you go into what it'll do to the bottom line.
Can I roll over my Tax Credit?
Speaker 4Okay. So let's say I have a $15,000 tax credit coming, but my liability isn't 15,000.
Speaker 2It's only you know 10 to 10,000.
Speaker 4Correct, you know I can roll that over to the to the following year.
Speaker 5If you're not using it all. Yes, there is a way for you to roll forward, okay.
Speaker 3And it will auto generate. How many years can you roll forward?
Speaker 4I think it's three yes, I think it's three. I think it's three, but. But my question is how does that work? Is that something that you're going to keep track of? You keep track of it homeowner needs to keep track of software will automatically keep track of it.
Speaker 5Okay, it's way smarter than us, way smarter, and it's but and, thankfully, and, and so that's what it's going to do for you. So next year, when you come in and we're dumping all the information in, it's going to be in there waiting for you.
Speaker 3Okay, do batteries qualify for the test credit?
Speaker 5Sure, I've heard both, I think so I mean, I think it would, yeah, I think it would as well. It can't work.
Speaker 3There's stipulations, I think, like it has to be tied to a solar system. Sure, yeah, it can't be tied to the grid, because if it's being, it's being replenished by the grid. I've heard that it doesn't work, but if you do it with solar, then that would be a middleman, that shouldn't be there.
Speaker 3So I think, if we look at it, if we're looking at things to avoid, number one would be listening to a salesperson. No, I mean really, because you should do your own homework. Sure, and anything that you buy, you should do your own homework. You go buy a car, you shouldn't listen to the salesperson. Right, take everything with a grain of salt. You better do your homework. Yep, bring the proper paperwork to you Absolutely, to make sure that you have everything you need Absolutely, and so that you need a contract. I mean really anything that was involved in that purchase you probably want to see it Everything.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5Even if it's too much paperwork, bring it, we'll decide. And we throw away a lot of your paperwork because it's unnecessary. Yeah, so by the time you get done, we want to make sure that what you keep is all you need. More is better. Yeah, more is better.
Speaker 4Bring the shoebox full of receipts to you. Receipts seat.
Speaker 5Don't do that.
Speaker 4You guys don't do that anymore. Be, organized please.
Speaker 3I mean, I think that's it. As long as I've got all my stuff in line and I give it to you, it's up to you to figure it out Exactly what's going to work for me.
Relationship with you Tax Guy
Speaker 5Yeah, and that's part of our fact finding and that's part of us making sure that we're holding your hand. We have to continually ask you questions about what's this, what's this and why the wise count just as much as the what ifs I think it's important.
Speaker 3So for me personally, I've had the same tax guy for 32 years. Yeah, right, so I mean I love the guy, he's a friend, yeah, but he knows me, he knows what I've been through exactly he has my history.
Speaker 3you know what I'm saying, so it's I think it's so important. Not, I hate the online stuff. I think it's so impersonal number one, sure, and it thinks it knows you, but I don't like that. I think you should find a company that you can work with, that you become buddies with the guys and you see every year. You know I'm you're talking to them probably for other things as well, exactly, I mean, whenever I want to go do something, I want to always ask my guy hey, I'm thinking about doing this, what's the implications? It's an advisor, right, it's not just a guy I go to and see before April 15th.
Speaker 4Yeah, and there's benefits to that because you know, like you say, it's more personal, you know them and they might find things that, like you know. Hey, Ralph, I know we were talking a couple of months that you did this. Did you know that there's a tax break for that?
Speaker 3Whereas if you're doing it online like they don't know you, they don't Right, they're just clicking buttons, and I think that's just a mistake.
Speaker 5It's a huge mistake. We slow people down. We slow them down and we tell them we are not here to disrupt a good relationship. If you're going to come to us, something has has had to gone wrong, right, we don't. We either. Either they fired you or we've had an unfortunate. A lot of clients come this year for for guys that have passed away.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 5And so we've also had guys that have retired, and so we're we're trying to, you know, slowly getting some of those people as well, and so we start that whole new learning process over compared to what their old guy was doing, that whole new learning process over compared to what their old guy was doing. So we want to make sure that we are sensitive to what they were getting as opposed to how we work, and make sure that we can meld the two together.
Speaker 3It's a marriage. Yeah, it really is. I mean, you get into a relationship with somebody 32 years or something.
Speaker 5Yeah, almost 33 years now. I mean it's a relationship More than most marriages for crying out loud, so most marriages for crying out loud. So it's a long, it's a long-term relationship, and it should be. Yeah, I agree, because that's you just said. Hey, john, I have a question Is this going to work for me, yeah or no? Or let me get back to you At least you have an outlet.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean I don't make a move that I know will have some kind of a tax implication without talking to him. Yeah, and he, and if I don't would get mad at me if I did something wrong.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 3So it's kind of it's like a marriage, yeah, but it's a good marriage, it's been really good, so I think that's important. So I think that's important for people that they're looking for somebody. Yeah, find a company like you that's going to be there with them every step of the way, absolutely For the next how many years they have best thing for you.
Speaker 5We're not going to just steal you per se now. If you go there and it didn't work out and you fire him, then yeah, we we're more than glad to take you on, of course. So we are growing.
Speaker 3We are still taking on new clients, so I mean, I'm just not a fan of the whole online thing either, I just yeah it may work for some people. Right, it's a personal yeah, yeah, I mean maybe for the, the kid that just has the job, that he's making a few bucks maybe that makes sense for him.
Speaker 5Yeah, and he wants to try it. He wants to see if he can do it. He has. I'm all for that. That's fine one w2.
Speaker 4It works out great yeah, it's always kind of sketchy when you're dealing with thousands and thousands of dollars and you can get it done in like 10 minutes. Like wait a minute, I know right, I might have missed something. Something's right. This was not my house, you absolutely right, because no one's asking you questions.
Speaker 5And so now you're seeing these commercials where Intuit and those guys are saying oh, just call our TaxPro and we'll walk you through. Well great, they're not doing it for free, guys, no it's like 50 bucks to talk to the tax guy. And then you're still buying the software, so on and so forth.
Speaker 5By the time you get done, you're $200 in We've had clients come in that have done a business return using an online platform and it was $1,700. Oh yeah, and it's not a big place like Harmon, it's a relatively small guy like me. Yeah, I'm like, wow, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 3Like a small business guy, what would he typically spend on doing his tax returns? I mean as an average? I know you can't give an exact number, but you're going to average. Um, everybody's different, I get it.
Speaker 5It's probably 900 bucks.
Speaker 3Yeah, okay, that makes sense, right around there. That makes sense.
Speaker 5We're we're a little bit more affordable if if we can do it.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5And if there's a lot of work, like we have a, a guy out of Kentucky, he's got 26 businesses. A guy out of Kentucky has got 26 businesses. First of all, why does he need 26? Yeah, no kidding, by the time we get done, we have a lot of time invested because I have to put two or three preparers on the amount of work that needs to be done. He's actually one of the businesses. He's an energy guy, he's a gas guy, and so by the time we get done, it's seven, eight grand.
Speaker 3But that makes sense.
Speaker 5Yeah, it's four or five months worth of work.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5And we're right off. So technically you get zero yeah. So it makes one of the things that we do stress to people.
Speaker 3What does the average homeowner pay if they come to you? I mean, again, can't give me exact price, but I know that everything's different, but what's the average homeowner pay?
Speaker 5bucks 800 on block is 800?. Yeah, for the same return. Yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5That's pretty good.
Speaker 3That is pretty good.
Speaker 4Do you see any commercial solar? No, I don't.
Speaker 5I was actually going to ask that question. I mean, I don't see any. Me personally don't see any of that at all and I don't know why.
Speaker 4I was just wondering if you dealt with the tax credits with that, because If you dealt with the tax credits with that, because I know it's probably very different.
Speaker 3I mean, I would think most companies, especially we do bigger commercial solar. I think most of those guys already have either their own in-house accounting or their firms are hooked up with.
Speaker 5Most likely, that's probably why you don't see a lot of that. There's still someone doing the tax returns, but, yeah, the CFO and the accounting people are manipulating that throughout the year. Of course, sure.
Speaker 3I'm sure that's probably why you don't see a lot of that, but I would think you see a lot of small business people that would come in and they just don't do solar.
Speaker 5Yeah, they don't have you know, they're still working out of their house.
Speaker 3Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5And so we can help them there. But would that would work really well okay, okay, sounds good.
Speaker 3I could see why you don't see a lot of those, though that makes sense. Yeah, what else ben I? Think that's about it, you have anything for us that you want to know about solar any questions?
Speaker 5um, I yeah. Why aren't more small businesses putting it on? I mean, that's a great question, because we do have clients. Yeah, that are small businesses that own their own buildings or industrial unit type things.
Speaker 3I think, commercial. So we typically deal with we used to deal more with the small businesses, but it's really a tough as an installer. You don't want to make this, you don't want to too small of a system because there's a hard cost there. Yeah, that makes it very hard to go solar at a small system size commercially. Right, because you have to cover that hard cost no matter what. Yeah, and it just takes the benefit away, yeah, yeah, so we we deal more yeah, the behind the scenes.
Speaker 4I was a commercial project manager here, so the behind the scenes work for a small system or a two megawatt system is the same. The same the engineering, the permitting process, all that stuff. It's the same. So when they take a look at, like, the return on investment of a smaller system, they're like it's not that attractive, whereas because of all those hard fixed costs, yeah. Whereas a larger system like, wow, return on investment is great because you can absorb a lot of those Absolutely Smaller those, those fixed costs, yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, so I think that's what it is. A lot is just a lot of them don't go solar because it doesn't make financial sense. They probably don't even know they can't. Yeah, I think some do. I mean, it depends. You see a lot of what we see, a lot of us we do all the big ones, but the churches all want to go solar. They just don't have the money. Yeah, but every church I've ever talked to wants to go solar. But now that's interesting. So, and there's something called direct pay, yes, Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 5I can't elaborate on it, but I've heard about it so far. Where?
Speaker 3they actually get-.
Speaker 5In schools as well charter schools A lot of charter schools are doing it because they're privately owned, and so the owners of those buildings want to take advantage of that.
Speaker 3So my understanding with direct pay is they will actually cut them a check and give them a check to. Where we talked about it for a long time we talked about today, is that you know you don't get a tax, you don't get a check. My understanding is commercially with direct pay, that you do. It's different, interesting. I don't. I'm not educated on it. So, please, you're not a tax pro. I didn't say anything, but this is what I've been hearing as far as that's how it's supposed to work. So maybe we'll dive into that.
Speaker 4You know sometime yeah, you give me homework, I'll find yeah I give you what I need for me and I think another reason why these smaller, uh commercial businesses don't is because they don't own the building. You know a lot of them don't if they're, at least if they're leasing out. You know office space, the things that they don't own, the building to put solar on. Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3That's a very good point. Yeah, most of them are leasing. If they can get the owner of the building that leases it out to put solar on. We've had that happen before correct. So you get a strip right and they get ahead and put solar on and they pass some of them, or they don't pass it at all.
Speaker 4I don't know what they do, but yeah, so that would make sense.
Speaker 3Is why it doesn't happen.
Speaker 5Yeah but it could both.
Speaker 3It could benefit both, yeah I mean I'm, I'm, this is good, this is good, this is really good, how do we find you?
Speaker 4I know we're neighbors, we are neighbors, we are, did you?
Speaker 5walk here. I'm too fat. It's hot outside.
Speaker 4It's hot outside.
Speaker 5No, we're just right down the street, we're at 615 West Deer Valley Road and we're here. We work Saturdays all year long, and so I don't sleep, so I'm there at 7 o'clock.
Speaker 4I don't sleep?
Speaker 3I don't sleep.
Speaker 4I don't sleep very much. You're a 24-7 tax person.
Speaker 5Okay, that's great, but we're there, Someone's there all the time and we do again. We're full state planning, Tax planning. We actually build tax plans for someone who maybe has a larger tax bill, say $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 in tax bills. We can build plans to go out to help address those things into the future and make sure that last year looked better. So we established a good yellow brick road, so to speak.
Speaker 3If they want to build a trust or anything like that. You can help them with that kind of stuff too. We can help them there as well.
Speaker 5Okay, that's good. Financial planning, IRAs, 401ks, whatever that looks like. If you've left a job a year or two years, five years ago and you left your 401k there, we can help you get it to a safe place. Help us roll it over somewhere. Roll it over, transfer it. We utilize a lot of life insurance for estate planning as well as legacy planning. We can build income out of life insurance today, so life insurance has become a very, very solid planning tool. It's not just a death benefit anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 3Really.
Speaker 5There's living benefits.
Speaker 3So the longer you live, the better it gets. I don't have life insurance. My wife keeps telling me you need to get life insurance. Look at you, I'm like all right.
Speaker 4So what's the best way to contact you? Social media, phone, email.
Speaker 5Phone 623-889-3403. You can always website wwwarptaxprocom arptaxprocom. Yep, or my email is wmspar at arptaxprocom.
Speaker 3You're not on Instagram doing some dances and TikTok videos.
Speaker 5Negative, negative.
Speaker 4I could see you doing TikTok videos.
Speaker 5You know it'd be great. I can probably get my daughter to do that. She's more adverse, All right, Thank you so much. I could see you doing TikTok videos.
Speaker 4You know it'd be great, I can probably get my daughter to do that.
Speaker 5She's more adverse.
Speaker 4All right, thank you so much for joining we really appreciate it.
Speaker 5This is something we've been totally looking to do Appreciate the time and the opportunity, guys, I'm glad we do it.
Speaker 3We don't have to talk about some life planning stuff.
Speaker 4Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3Because I'm not going to be around much longer. It'll last another 30, 40 years.
Speaker 4Ben, what's next? What's next? I know what's next. We have a company that does a lot of different types of alternative energy. We're recording that actually in an hour.
Speaker 3And they're actually in Missouri, missouri, yeah, so this will be our first attempt at doing something outside of the state. Yeah, a little virtual podcast.
Speaker 4Very nice.
Speaker 3We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It's going to be a disaster. Anyway, thanks again for joining us and we'll see you soon. Thank you, bye, appreciate it.
Speaker 1You've been listening to the Harmon Solar Podcast, with Ben and Ralph bringing clarity to the intersection of solar power and smart home ownership. If you found this episode helpful, don't forget to like, comment and subscribe, and also share the show with others navigating the solar journey. For questions and topic suggestions, call 800-281-3189 or visit harmansolarcom. You can also connect with the team on social media. See you next episode.
