Hey , hey , mamas , welcome back to Conquering Chaos A Mom's Guide to Self-Care and Sanity . Today we have Michelle McVitie Now I am so excited to have Michelle here . Michelle is a child life specialist , author and a parenting coach . She has received her BA in sociology and a child life studies diploma , both from McMaster University . Over her 20-year career , michelle has worked in pediatric , medical and mental health , with young offenders and in daycares as a behavior specialist . Michelle's first book , I Quit oh Wait , I'm the Mom is a self-help book with practical tips to help moms find their joy again in motherhood . Michelle specializes in ADHD , anxiety , strong-willed children , parenting , teens , communication , collaborative problem-solving and emotional coaching . Michelle , welcome , I'm so excited to have you here today . Thank you for having me . So , as a fellow Canadian , you and I have been chatting a little bit about our system and how you help families , so I'd love for you to just dive in and share what you do and how you help these parents and their kids .
Speaker 2Yes , so I am a child life specialist , so I've worked with parents for over 20 years and I work in the system . So I know the system . I know what it's like to be in the trenches with parents and the concern with waitlists is that you're on them for a long time and what do you do in the meantime ? And actually not everybody needs to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist or a pediatrician or a developmental pediatrician . And so what do you hear from the doctor ? Ah , you're fine . Oh , this is normal . Oh , they'll grow out of it , don't worry about that . And it's like well , I'm worrying , so am I crazy ? Or what is going on with me ? Hmm , let me go to the Facebook and see if I can ask a question . Let's check Pinterest to see where we can find some parenting advice . And then the behaviors escalate and we buy the books and we do the things and it doesn't seem to be working . Or it works for a little bit , but not for long , and sometimes you just feel like I don't know where else to go , and that's why I created one , my book .
Speaker 2Then that turned into my social media platforms and my Facebook groups . I have two Facebook groups as well , one called overjoyed to not overjoyed , overworked to overjoyed . And then the other one is ADHD parenting . Where do you get free content and how do you know that this is legitimate information ? Because everybody is an expert out there . There's a lot of opinion based information that isn't necessarily bad information . It may have worked very well for that family , but it can become confusing and stressful for parents , and I wanted them to be able to go somewhere without needing to pay necessarily and still get some information . And then from there I have created charts , downloadables . That's how I actually started . I was an Etsy store , yeah , and then that turned into parent coaching , one-on-one , and now I'm creating on-demand programming for ADHD , strong-willed children and children with chronic illness as well . Little bits of information where everybody can get something at every price point .
Speaker 1I think that's amazing and , being a fellow Canadian , I mean I know how many holes there are in our current system . I was sharing with you a little bit about our journey prior to starting this call and you know , we kind of were slipping through the cracks . We had done all the right things as a family , we had sought support , we had sought medical support , we had done testing . Everything was coming back kind of negative and , like you said , you start to think like am I crazy ? I would go out with girlfriends and I'd be like this is what's happening , and they would look like I had grown a second head or something or like had eight arms , because they were like oh , that doesn't happen to us . And I'm like maybe I am crazy , like maybe this is just an abnormal situation and I'm just the one of the few people that have to go through this on my own . I don't know . And then you know , luckily we were able to get our diagnosis , but our daughter was almost nine at the time . She's now almost 11 . So it's been quite a journey and to hear that there are supports out there , like what you offer , is phenomenal .
Speaker 1So I'd love for you to share just a little bit more about how you got started with your book . I mean I will put the link in the show notes for this , because this book I'm going straight over to buy it right away . You were sharing a little bit of the insight and it just . It's such a cute book and I mean the title says it all . Like I was that mom , that was like I quit . Oh wait , I'm the mom . I can't leave Like what's happening . Yeah , share a bit more about your book before we dive into your services . Me .
Speaker 2Yeah , share a bit more about your book before we dive into your services . Yes , well , my book was , you know , a project that has always been like . I've always wanted to write a book and I'm trying to write romance novels . I'm like nothing's coming to me . This . I sat down and I wrote very quickly , because this is what I do every day .
Speaker 2This is what I've lived , you know I'm a mom of two teenagers . I've been married , for it'll be 21 years in April . I've lived , you know I'm a mom of two teenagers . I've been married , for it'll be 21 years in April . I've lived , you know , in the trenches .
Speaker 2Maybe I don't have children that are diagnosable , but I've had things that have come up and I wanted to share this that it doesn't have to be hard that we get so stuck in the mud . We're like in a snow globe of stress and there are simple things that we can do to turn down the volume , because we are on survival mode and our society normalizes that . It's wine o'clock for moms that , just you know , drink your days away , complain about your toddler that is a jerk and there's no solutions . And then we just feed off of that negativity and , sure , have a glass of wine . But if you're drinking a box of wine and not numbing your pain , that's not okay either .
Speaker 2So I wanted to kind of be that person for someone to say you know what , you've got this , that right now things don't look great , but we can we focus on doing one thing . What can we focus on ? And it's not just about our kids , it's about our health as well . And you can't pour from an empty cup . And self care is not about going to a spa day , it's not about buying chocolate and , you know , spending lots of money . It's micro practices taking care of yourself , right .
Speaker 1Yeah , so what would be your top three self-care tips for moms out there , cause I talk a lot about this ? I mean it can be . Sometimes my self-care is just making sure I'm up early enough to journal a few thoughts down . Sometimes it is staying up late just to watch my favorite TV show . Right , it doesn't have to be going to the spa , like you said . So what would be your top three tips for the moms listening out there ?
I think the top three tips is one let the guilt go , that we have to let that go . It's like we become parents and then , you know , guilt just embodies us that I can't take this time . I don't want to abandon my child . They need me . But you're being a good role model for your child , especially if they're emotionally dysregulated or they , you know , have anxiety or depression . We want to show them this is a good role model of what to do with your emotions .
Speaker 2So , letting that go , I think the two would be planning it and putting it in your calendar that it's not just something that maybe one day you'd like to do .
Speaker 2And then three would be what does that look like ? Because self care looks different for everybody and you know , honestly , like I see some things that are very shaming , where parents are like I see these you know memes or TikToks or whatever saying you know , a shower is not self-care . That's just you know what you're supposed to be doing . Well , maybe for that parent they haven't showered in a week and they've been , you know , washing their armpits with a face cloth because they feel like I don't even have time . So that shower is great . Go in there and enjoy your shower , put on music , feel the water on your skin , connect with a friend , drop a child off at soccer practice and then sit in the car and listen to a book . Or just take five minutes to enjoy your coffee instead of checking email with one hand and folding laundry with the other , like it's just those little micro practices , done on a consistent basis and knowing what fills your cup and that every little bit matters .
Speaker 1I think that's so important and you touched on something that was really important in there . Like I struggled a lot with my own emotional regulation . So when I was trying to teach my daughter emotional regulation , it was like I was having to learn that alongside her . And one thing that really helped me was getting to the gym and it was really hard in the beginning to start fitting it in and it was really hard for me to ask my husband for support in making sure that I could get there and , you know , have him make dinner , and not that he wasn't willing , it was just being able to be vulnerable enough to ask for help . And I think that that's a big piece for a lot of moms is we kind of wear this badge of honor where it's like we have to just do it all . We wear busy like it's a badge of honor right now and I'm kind of tired of it . I don't know about you , but like I asked people how they are and they're like oh , I'm busy .
Speaker 1It's like well , yeah , we all are , but like what's going on in life ?
Speaker 2Yes , I , yeah , and you're right . It is a bit of a badge of honor where you just push through , put a smile on your face and , yeah , what's the message to our kids too ? Right that I ? Just because we're kind of zombies walking around because there's nothing that actually fulfills us , we lose our identity . And asking for help is about shame . Right , we have shame , we have a lot of guilt and we want to keep that hidden . So what if I reach out to Michelle and she tells me I've just screwed up my kid , I don't want to deal with that . What if I ask my husband and he gives me the song and dance about I'm busy . You know what I mean . You're home all day . What do you mean ? You need another break , so I'm not going to bother . And then we get stuck and we have that cycle and cycle . And how people respond to us is out of our control , but we can control how we respond and a lot of times I'm a recovering pleaser .
Speaker 2I actually went to therapy to learn how to be assertive , because I was brought up to be a nice little girl and to make sure everybody was happy to a fault . And then my resentment built and built and built and learning to set boundaries was difficult . I tried to set boundaries with the wrong people Started in high school . They didn't hear me , they were not my people . Eventually they rejected me and I found new friends , friends that I'm still friends with a hundred years later . And setting boundaries with people If they love you and respect you , they will respect your boundaries . And that is what I see in this world .
Speaker 2I watch because I have a 19-year-old oh , that's hard to say those words . I have a 19-year-old and I watch her and I've helped build her resiliency and make her assertive versus being passive or aggressive . And she's had to confront friends . She's had to say things and do things and it's unbelievable their responses , that they hear it . They're able to say , oh , you're right , like that's my bad , I'm sorry , I didn't realize I hurt your feelings . Or I can see like I respect that .
Speaker 2That's not something that my generation would do , like they get defensive , what's the matter with you ? Why are you acting that way ? You're so , you know what's , you're so sensitive or this , or you know that's not my problem , it's like this because that's emotional , because I can't take that on . It's very emotionally mature to be able to hear someone say hey , sydney , you kind of hurt my feelings or you know what , I'd love to come to your party . I have three others and I just have to send my regrets , or not even over , that's over explaining . I have to send my regrets and not over explaining , and knowing that we're friends and that you're going to be okay if I don't go one time .
Speaker 1Right , and I think that that's the key piece , though , is and knowing that we're friends and that you're going to be okay if I don't go one time . Right , and I think that that's the key piece , though , is the communication right , Because it can be very easy to be on the other side of that , you know , rejection of the party , and just be like , oh well , that's but , and then see , like a friend , go to three other parties , for example .
Speaker 1Social media loves to show us those it's true yeah , and then you're like , well , what did I do ? And then to actually just be able to have an open conversation as adult women . Our generation can't do that . I'm . I'm in the conversations right now where I'm like maybe you're not my people like it's okay and it's okay , right , you can own your own piece of things . And I think the communication is the real kicker that for some reason , our generation just never got the memo on well , it comes from us .
It comes from parents . Children learn what they live right . So some people are blessed that they had those parents that would talk to them openly , that were would collaborate with them , that gave them an opportunity to try . When they fell down , it didn't turn into a lecture to say I told you . So it's saying okay , so you fell down , I'm gonna help you back up . What did you learn from that ? Let's do some problem solving . And I think that's where parents feel a little bit stuck . What do I do here ? You know , after five my child's still having a temper tantrum . The doctors are saying everything is okay . What's the matter with me ? What's the matter with my child ? Why am I worried about this ? Should I not be worried about this ? I don't know what to do with this emotion , with this child , like , come on , like your brother's , fine , I am exhausted , just put your boots on . You love school . Once you get there , we get super rational , they're super emotional , and then everybody's heads are popping off .
Speaker 1And so let's talk about that , because that's really what the premise of your whole coaching and support is it's building these resilient kids . So in those moments that you know things are popping , popping off and everybody's upset and emotions are heightened , where do parents go with that ? Like , what is ? How do we start to rectify this and building these kids with resiliency , so that the parents aren't feeling at the end of their rope every single day ?
Speaker 2Yeah . So one is pausing because we are like we need to go , let's go . This is ridiculous , let's keep moving . I need to punish this , to make this stop . And even when a child is calming down , I see some parents that are like what's the matter ? Just smile because they can't tolerate the distress in themselves and they can't tolerate the distress in their child . So , in the moment pausing , tolerate the distress in their child . So , in the moment pausing . But really it's about not fighting fires because we have to figure it out . A child is just not magically going to be like geez , mom , you know you made that beautiful roast . I appreciate you doing this and I know you paid for gymnastics and I asked you for gymnastics . And right now I want to sit here and have Cheetos and watch my 300th YouTube video and you can shove your $300 up your bum . Care that we have to go Right .
Speaker 1So what Right I ?
Speaker 2know I didn't force you to come . You know I'm gonna . I could have bought myself very boots with the money . You know , a good pair of boots with the money .
Speaker 1I mean I haven't gone down that road , but yeah , but the thoughts have definitely been there .
Speaker 2Yes , right . So I think it's lighting fires doesn't help . And then we come back to it . And we come back to it and then parents will say , well , you know , I asked them why ? Well , conversation blocker , why actually projects shame , why did you act that way ? Why are you doing that ? Basically , you're saying you did it on purpose and you're a disappointment . We don't mean to do that . We're actually just trying to figure out what is going on . But when we sit down and we get resistance , we think what's the point ? This isn't working . I've tried all this . It doesn't work .
Speaker 2And sometimes , when you're doing all the right things , there is ebb and flow to behavior , ebb and flow to emotions , but we're looking at like it needs to just go away or it needs to be perfect , and we need to look at small degrees of change and small degrees of effort . And actually , what is going on with mornings ? My child actually needs an hour and a half to get ready . There's no checklist , there's no timer . I am dressing them as we get out the door . I am giving them whatever they want to eat . There is , like you know , so that takes forever . And then you know they don't actually want to go to school , like you know . So that takes forever . And then you know they don't actually want to go to school because you know that's too noisy In the beginning .
Speaker 2Yeah , they're tired . I have my math class , the first class . I hate math , even though they're good at math . So , you know , we look at just the behavior and we really need to dig down . And that's my superpower is stepping into child's shoes or teenager shoes to say what really is going on here . When you say you know , when they say to you that doesn't work , I don't want to do that , well , you have to give it a try . Well , the message is you don't know what you're talking about , and I do , and just just listen , and so that kid is going to shut down right it does .
Speaker 1I mean like you just got like a pierce through the heart when you hear that right , yeah , to feel that shame , oh yeah , so they , they just will be fine .
Speaker 2You know I'll act out or I'll shut down , I'll just do as you say and then I'll be resentful . But I'm not really happy . This is tough stuff and there are some strategies that work really well with kids and we can use those strategies . And then we have another child , same strategies , same home , and it's like it's not working and it's frustrating .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely . I mean , I feel like you've just been like had a little bug or something in my , in my house , for the last , you know three years of my life , where I'm like , oh , I've got two kids . They're two years apart , they're both girls , they have similar interests , but this works for one , this doesn't work for the other . And then your , your brain is just overloaded with all of these , like you're like which one does this and which one does that ?
Speaker 2And you know it can be really overwhelming .
Speaker 1So I'm sure I'm not the only one . It sounds like you have a lot of parents that are going through this . What would you say ? What would you say ? The starting point is for parents , like they're out there , they're feeling this , they have kids that are , you know , going one way , going the other way , they're busy with work , they're stressed , maybe finances aren't going well , like their plate it's very , very full . What's the first step ? That they want a more peaceful home . They want to come to you or they just need some support , right ? So maybe it's just one of your free resources . What would you say ? Is you know ? Step number one how do , how do parents get going ?
Speaker 2I think step number one is realizing that you can make change and that we look at this , this behavior and our snow globe of stress , and we're not looking at things clearly right . When that snow globe settles and we can look at a situation , you know , it's like milk spilling before you have to leave the house . In that moment , you're freaking out , going to be sticky , or there's glass everywhere . I have to clean this up , I have . I should have been out of the house 10 minutes ago and our heads pop off . If that happened on a Saturday afternoon , meh okay . But in that moment where we're stressed , when we have so many things piling up , it seems like nothing works , and this is the worst . So the first piece is that you can make a change and let's focus on what really is not going on , like what ? What really are those daily and weekly things that are coming up on a regular basis ? We get stuck in always or never , thinking which ?
Speaker 2is a thinking trap , right , and if you know cognitive distortions , then you know that's one of them . Right , black and white thinking , all or nothing , catastrophizing , and that always or never . Like she never listens , it's always chaos . Really , Like never one time has your child listened . Like everything is just chaos , like nothing in this house works . If you were to step back , what advice would you give to this person in this situation ? If this was your friend , what would you say ? Can you validate yourself , validate your emotion and focus on what is going well , but also okay ? What do we need to focus on here ? Because we can't focus on all of it . So what are those daily things that come up and how do we ?
Speaker 1support . I mean , I think that's so powerful , right , and I you kind of touched on the fact that it's it's just never too late . It's never too late . And I love that because I know that you work with a lot of teens and do you find that there's a difference in you know the early , earlier years that you're starting with parents , Like is there a benefit to getting started earlier , or do you find the same results kind of across the board ? I think ?
Speaker 2it really depends on the child , because , really , if you've got like an eight year old or nine year old that is anxious , that's refusing to go to school , trying new things , if we continue accommodating that and saying , fine , you don't have to go to that party , okay , fine , we can do online learning . You know you don't want to do anything , like we'll just hang out as a family . It gets harder and harder and then at 15 , you're like , enough is enough , get on the bus , enough is enough , go to a party , enough is enough , go get a job . And it's like but you've been telling me I can't do this for all these years because you've been keeping me home , right . But , that being said , it's never too late . You just have a longer time . Like it'll be harder , right , because we have to look at what that situation is .
Sometimes children are very like . This is the thing , too is that you know we were talking about this there's a huge , huge industry for infants and toddlers .
Speaker 2Under five , you can get any service you want around the corner . And then after that it's like what's going on ? This temper tantrum should have stopped . What's the matter with this kid ? What is going on ?
Speaker 2Teenagers were frustrated with and the transition from working with school-aged children to preteen teen is difficult for parents because they're losing control . Right , because you can't really control your kids . Some people try , and when they're three you can control them right , like you can literally pick them up and take them somewhere . And then some , some people are still trying that at 15 , you know where . We'll just keep them in a box . We just won't talk to them . We'll just say no to social media . We'll just say no to social media . We'll just say no to this and it's fear-based parenting that does not build skill and we want to think about am I preparing or am I protecting ? And the majority of us are protecting our children . And then we get frustrated because at some point we just had had enough .
Speaker 2I've been making your lunches . Now you're complaining about your lunches . Make your own lunch . You're 15 . Get out and get a job . You're 18 . Go to university and then they're coming home because I don't know what to do . Right , and then we have an anxiety disorder on top of that , a learning disability , you know , a chronic illness it . Those things pile up because children are not born resilient . But some children are just , you know , they lucked out . They don't have a lot of things that are going against their resiliency and they live in communities that are supportive and have parents that are supportive . They're , you know , intelligent , they're kind of , you know things are good . But you add certain things to a child it's going to hurt their resiliency . But we can always build resiliency . I did not give you a clear answer . I can never know your answer .
Speaker 1I think you really hit on two major points , though is that , yes , obviously , starting with kids as they're younger and growing , you have maybe less resistance with building that resiliency , but the key piece here is that it's it's never too late . So , whether your kid is 16 , 17 or four or five , I mean there are services and there are ways that you can help build that resiliency , no matter what hand in life that they've been dealt , and so that's really powerful . If there is any other pieces of advice that you'd love to share with the listeners , I'd love to hear them .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , I mean , I think the thing is is I want you to look at how far you've come and look at the positive things that you've done and the positive things that your children bring to your life . I do gratitude journaling every day . I take care of myself so I can be there for my children and also be a good role model , and when you're in a situation right now , it's going to change a lot . I have a 19 year old that turned into a vampire . Every time someone said hello to her it would be like hi and she'd cover up her face . You know , crying about taking soccer and doing all these things . She's playing NCAA volleyball in British Columbia for Simon Fraser University and is touring the world . Being five-hour plane ride away from them is difficult for me . I cried for three weeks .
Speaker 1I don't blame you , I think my eight year old Wendy is going to wake up and be like I'm moving to Australia .
Speaker 2Absolutely .
Speaker 1But also my heart .
Speaker 2Yes , but in that moment we think what is happening ? How will I ever get out of this ? What's going to happen ? We have to continue scaffolding , building the building blocks , building resiliency , building those tools Really , really important . Because every child is different , we have to look at what their needs are and where they need help . They need help with their unhelpful thinking . They need help with everyday tasks and chores . They need help with their unhelpful thinking . They need help with everyday tasks and chores . They need help with their problem solving . How do we do that ? We have to help them ride the wave of discomfort . Emotions ebb and flow when we rescue , when they're at the top constantly . We teach them we're going to fix , we're going to fix , we're going to rescue . Let's avoid . Instead , I have to be okay with emotion and some distress , and myself and my child , to help them ride the wave of distress and look at effort , look at small degrees of change , take it one day at a time .
Speaker 1I love all of that advice
. I think you've really hit a ton of amazing points in terms of motherhood and self-care and making sure that you know , like you mentioned , our cup is full . Setting a prime example for our children and the next generation , helping them build their resiliency and their boundaries so that we don't raise another generation of people pleasers is so important .
Speaker 2Yes absolutely .
Speaker 1I often say I'm like I'm in people pleasing rehab . It's a real place . Yes , it's a thing . It is a thing . So you know , if we can raise our daughters to not have to go to that place , that would be lovely and very , very important . And then I just think that it's so powerful what you're able to do with these families , not only setting the parents up for success with customized plans , but also really stepping into the kids shoes , and I think that that's a really needed service out there . So thank you for doing that , especially in Canada . So we'll make sure to put your book link down below and any other links so that people know where to find you . I'm so grateful that you've been able to come on the show today and thank you all for tuning in where we help you conquer the chaos one day .