Hello , hello mamas , and welcome back to Conquering Chaos A Mom's Guide to Self-Care Insanity . I'm your host , sydney Crow , and today we have Kelly Durbin from Phoenix Arizona . She is a lactation coach , as well as working with the Childbirth International Program , building curriculum for prenatal doulas all sorts of extra people who can help with the birthing process and so I'm really excited for her to dive in here and share her expertise at that level of stage of life . So you are one of my first guests to come in at the early stages of life that prenatal , postnatal care and I'd love to hear your take , because one thing that you said in your intake form was that you feel that a lot of families are set up for failure right now , and so there's a level of making sure that you have a plan in place . Can you talk a little bit to that , kelly ?
Speaker 2Yes , so first , thank you so much for having me on today . This is a really important topic because a lot of people do feel unprepared in the newborn phase . So they're in the pregnancy period . There's a lot of focus on education and prenatal care , but much of that is geared towards child birth and labor and delivery and a healthy pregnancy , labor and delivery and a healthy pregnancy . There are very few points in time during the pregnancy where people are interfaced with or asked about how do you plan to feed your baby ? Or tell me about your knowledge of infant feeding . What is the plan ? How are you going to get more information ? So sometimes people fly under the radar and they don't plan for it . Maybe their care provider is an obstetrician who has no knowledge or at least no expertise professional expertise in infant feeding , and they just don't mention it because they figure you're going to get that information and that kind of care from some other professional going to get that information and that kind of care from some other professional .
Speaker 2But the truth is is that this is one of those gray areas where people may fall through the cracks and you don't meet with anyone in the prenatal period who helps you to discover what resources there are in your area for breastfeeding . Where can I get good breastfeeding information and education , and how do I set myself up with a plan for making all this go smoothly ? So that is maybe . Step one is just to ask yourself well , how are we going to do infant feeding , what is our plan ? And then , once you decide which way you're going to go , what resources you might need , you kind of have to choose an education path , and I'll tell you I tell people this all the time when you're pregnant it does pay off to do childbirth education . It is extremely important to be informed and to go into labor and delivery knowing your options and having done some research . But childbirth only lasts for one day and infant feeding can go on for weeks , months , it can go for years . A lot of people are now breastfeeding up to two years , because this is the current recommendation from the world health organization and of course , that's in conjunction with complimentary food , but it it pays off to get that education . So first step is to find a good breastfeeding class . That may be online , it may be in person . If your local area has multiple resources for breastfeeding education , not find either of those , you could , you know , reach out to your local bookstore . Go to the library , find some really good book that is going to be a trusty guide for you as you get going . So I would say , first things first , education , and then , as you're going through and reading about and figuring out this , you know the mechanics of how to do breastfeeding . You can create a good plan for yourself , and part of that involves knowing your local resources . So I would say this would be like big thing number two , find out what , where you can go for help , and I'll tell you .
Speaker 2I'm not a hundred percent sure , but it seems like the state of things in the U ? S is very similar to Canada . Here in the U S , we have lots and lots of wonderful pediatricians who went to medical school in traditional routes , but med school didn't teach them about lactation , so they're not trained in lactation . In fact , I believe in 2023 , a very prominent Canadian doctor named Jack Newman published a book called what Pediatricians Don't Know About Lactation , which is fascinating because , of course , he's a doctor , but he's also a lactation consultant , which is an unusual combo , especially for a male doctor , but he's got an incredible breastfeeding resource center in Canada and that has a lot of good information online for people . Anybody in English speaking world can access this .
Speaker 2But creating your support team may not involve the pediatrician , because they are . They can be a good resource for starting , but it may not be high level lactation care because they aren't trained to be lactation consultants . So dig into your community , find out who are your lactation consultants and where you can get care and a lot of times Sydney . People don't need to even pay for all of this because there is free lactation support available through several . There are worldwide lactation networks like La Leche League . I know in the US we one called breastfeeding USA which is all volunteer and it's a nationwide network of volunteers that are available to help people with lactation . But I know in Canada , across the nation , there are La Leche League groups online and in person .
Speaker 1Yeah , and a lot of like .
Speaker 1I'm in a small town and even in a small town we had a specified lactation consultant that I just needed a referral from my doctor to and then it was covered through healthcare .
Speaker 1But I find it interesting to think , like you mentioned , having a plan making the decision , and when I was having kids , you know , 10 years ago , the question was like , what is your plan ? It was just like are you going to formula feed or are you going to breastfeed ? And of course I wanted to do and then they do the breast is best type speech in the , in the clinic , and that was great . But then I really struggled with what to do after the fact when it wasn't going smoothly , when it wasn't going , you know , as easy as they thought it would , and even with a lactation consultant it still wasn't . It wasn't a very smooth experience and I was like having to pump and bottle feed and supplement with formula and do all of these things . And I feel like there was this mindset around I was failing as a mother , and I think that was a really key piece when you wanted to talk about how parents are set up to to fail in today's society . So , on top of the lactation plan in today's society .
Speaker 2So on top of the lactation plan , what else do you recommend that they do ? Well , I do find that when people are connected to a network of support that they are at least willing to jump into . You may not know these people , but if you've already done the research and , let's say , you find out that in your town or your city there are multiple outlets for volunteer breastfeeding where you can go and meet with somebody for free , that may be step one . Step two might be you go to your pediatrician's office because sometimes , even though the doctor may not be trained in lactation , the office may hire a lactation consultant and , like you said , if you get in the right with the right referrals , you may be just . It could be covered by your insurance , it could be part of your plan , your healthcare coverage , and a lot of times I find that people don't even know what their plans cover . So one other way to set yourself up for success is to find out what am I eligible for ? What does my health plan cover in terms of breastfeeding support ? So a lot of times breastfeeding classes can be covered . You can reach into your plan and say , okay , I'm going to go take this class and they may tell you . All right , we'll cover X number of dollar amount of you know the course or they may tell you you can take these courses , but they also sometimes will be limiting in terms of the amount of breastfeeding care that you can access . So I find that people especially I don't know how it works in Canada , but in the U ? S there may be a limit . Like you have six visits with a lactation consultant between birth and month number five , so they weren't going to let you just continue to access this care . But if you knew , okay , I only have five visits . I'm really going to use these wisely . Or you can also access volunteer breastfeeding support for free care in like a simultaneous pattern where you're going to the lactation consultant getting high level professional advice , but then when your group , your local group , is meeting , you can go there too and also get support . From this avenue it doesn't have to be one or the other , which is great .
Speaker 2Sometimes people find that the hospital where they gave birth has outpatient lactation services and some of those are offered as free classes as well , or just drop in , so you don't have to sign up , or you can just go when they're hosting a meeting , so having the local resources or if you know that you're in a rural area . A lot of places are really having struggling to keep lactation services going at rural hospitals . If you don't have that access , online access is real , like you can do telehealth and I know this is available . It's becoming more and more frequent here in the US you can access telelactation services where , just like you and I are meeting today on Zoom , you can meet with a lactation consultant , which is an incredible step towards like getting people the care and the access to the care that they need right when they need it .
Speaker 2And for a lot of people , especially with a newborn , you know , it may not be feasible to go outside to leave your home . Maybe it's a terrible snowy winter day , maybe you and the baby are really struggling , somebody's sick , you don't want to go to the doctor . Telehealth might be the answer right , so you just zoom in with your care provider . That can be one really good way to access lactation care . But I will say that many of these online or sorry volunteer support groups will offer online meetings and if you get into a forum , maybe through social media , you'll find that you can tap into these groups . You will learn that there are multiple meetings and , if you don't mind , like jumping in time zones , it doesn't matter where you are . You know I'm in Arizona , but somebody in Florida could be hosting a meeting that I could go to . It doesn't matter if you're online . So figuring out some of that in advance is really helpful .
Speaker 1And where would you find ? Like are people just to Google this information ? Do you find that that's the easiest way for them to find out what's available in their area ?
Speaker 2So , yes , start with your local town . So type in the name of your city , go to Google , type in lactation services . You could type it , do a search on like volunteer breastfeeding support . The US has a network through the government called WIC . It's Women , Infants and Children is the short name of the longer name , which is some I can't remember the entire name of the program run through the agricultural department , handled by the government , and there are WIC offices in every county in the US . But you would have to qualify for that because there is an income threshold , so certain services will be available . It's just like insurance . I may have this insurance that doesn't cover what your insurance will cover , you know . So I guess , yes , a Google search would be a great place to start .
Speaker 2Oftentimes the government , like health and human services or the office of women's health , something like this , will have free services . I know that in the U ? S we have something called the office of women's health and they do have a hotline that's available during the workday . It's not like you could call them on Saturday night , but you can call anytime and get free breastfeeding advice and support . They will have more resources and they may be able to say oh , in your area . There is this other local resource that you might need to know about , but I would say yes , start with Google . Look at the hospital where you delivered . If you had a hospital birth , See if they offer any services . If you had a birth center birth , they might also offer services , or your midwife may be connected to local services where they know hey , why don't you reach out to this person or this group ? You know they have probably a whole list of local resources . So I think the search is really the key to doing this , and there are local and national resources available .
Speaker 1That's amazing . This has been so informative for any of the new moms out there . If you're struggling with breastfeeding or you're about to have a baby and you're looking for resources , I really appreciate you coming in and sharing your expertise on how women can get the most support available to them Because , like you said , it does take a village and you know building that , that community , to foster that development for mom and baby and building a plan around that is definitely step number one . So thank you so much for being here , Kelly . Is there any last piece of advice you'd love to give the listeners before we sign off ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1I think .
If you're , if you feel like you're struggling , reach out to someone . There is no reason to suffer by yourself and think to yourself oh , I've got to figure this out . You know , breastfeeding is a skill and we have to think of it that way . Even though it's just like , yes , it's a bodily function and we should have some natural inclination to do it . It's a skill . It's like driving a car . We have to learn how to do it , and your new baby is also learning . So we absolutely need support and there's no reason to struggle alone . There are multiple good breastfeeding resources out there , so just remember if you're feeling overwhelmed , reach out for help .
Speaker 1Thank you so much and I will just add on to what you just said . You know you are learning and for me , my experience between both of my kids was very , very different . So just because I had a little bit of know-how the second time , it didn't make it any easier because that baby had to learn alongside with me . So if that's your case and you've had one and you're like , oh , I've got this , and you're all of a sudden struggling again , there's no reason to sit there and suffer in silence . Reach out , get the support , build a plan around it , and I just really appreciate you being here and spreading this awareness around this , kelly . So thank you so much for being here today , thank you so much for having me and thank you guys for tuning into today's episode where we help you conquer the chaos one day at a time .