Hey , hey , everybody . Welcome back to Conquering Chaos A Mom's Guide to Self-Care and Sanity . I'm your host , sydney Crow , and today we have the amazing Annie Joy . She is a certified life coach with a bachelor's in psychology . She's dedicated to building a kinder world , one conversation at a time . She helps people learn the tools to navigate difficult conversations with loved ones . Through her coaching and her kindness camps for kids . She teaches skills in emotional resilience , confidence and communication . Welcome , annie .
Speaker 2Thank you , I'm so excited to be here and I love the name of your podcast . And where was this when I had little tiny babies is what I want to know , Right , I felt the same way .
Speaker 1I think that's kind of where I birthed this whole idea from was because I was like I felt so alone in that stage and I just really want other moms out there to just know that all of these feelings are totally justified and normal and whatever you're going through , even if you don't feel like you can say it out loud , it's okay .
Speaker 2Yeah , 1000% . So thank you for having this platform . You're amazing .
Speaker 1Oh , I appreciate you saying so . I'm so excited to dive into this conversation . Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself , how your coaching program got created and born , where that came from , because I know you have a strong little blessing of your own . And , yeah , just fill everybody in on who you are and what you're all about . I love that .
Speaker 2Yes , thank you . So I live in Arizona . I'm actually a transplant to Arizona , though . I grew up in Utah and I moved here , got married , had my babies and now I'm technically stuck here because I can't move away . But I'm actually grateful because , while I love Utah and I love the people that are there , I've grown to fall in love with Arizona and my crew and my community is so powerful and my crew and my community is so powerful and I don't even know what I would do if I had to move , because I had the most incredible community around me and that's because there's lots of good people and because I created it right , like I made sure to bring those people in because of the things I've done in my life , but I just reminded every day of how many good people there are in the world . So I've lived in Arizona for about 14-ish years .
Speaker 2I'm a single mom of two kids . My oldest is 11 and he's autistic and is a blessing and a lesson in all of the things , and my daughter is nine and three quarters , as she likes to remind everyone , and they're 18 months apart . So in some ways it feels like I have twins . I don't right , but they are very close in age and developmentally she's actually passed him up in some ways . I like to remind her there's other ways that he has strengths as well that maybe you don't have , that we all are learning and we all are figuring out our strengths and weaknesses and we have to love each other through both of them . So it's been a unique opportunity to raise them , because they are like the best of friends and the best enemies , which I'm sure any moms can relate to in general , but especially those mamas who have kids close in age . There's like a special crazy bond that they have when they're so close . So it is . It is fun .
Speaker 2My coaching program was born from a place of deep understanding that the way I was treating myself wasn't working anymore . So my babies are from my second marriage . I always joke that I'm super classy and I've been married twice . I'm so good at it , I just keep doing it . And my first marriage I actually miscarried twice and at the time that was super painful and I was so devastated because I wanted so desperately to be a mom that felt like the best expression of all my talents and gifts was to be a mom . And I had aspirations to do other cool things with a career or just other work related thing . But the deepest part of me is like I want to be a mom , I want to raise babies the way I wasn't raised , and so when those babies were taken away from me , it was so awful . But later it became such a huge blessing because I have zero contact with that guy and I don't need to be around him in any way , shape or form , which is great . I wish him well and I hope that life is great for him . But I don't have to worry about it because he's not in my life .
Speaker 2And when I got married again , I thought I'd worked through a lot of things . I'd gone to therapy and my therapist like kicked me out . I was like you could give therapy at this point , like you're , but back then people weren't really diving into trauma and like looking at trauma , and so we didn't really dive into like my mom issues or you know my childhood . It was like , oh , here's where you didn't set boundaries in this marriage , here's where you need to like stand up for yourself , things like that . That's what he talked about and that was great . I'm like oh , yeah , I should probably do that . So we talked about and that was great . I'm like , oh yeah , I should probably do that .
Speaker 2So then I carried on my merry way and I thought I was all good and happy and healthy and I married this guy that is like so opposite of my first husband in so many ways . But once I got into marriage I found the common denominator . I found men who love bombed and then immediately turned into this like I'm sorry , one second I realize that my thing's still on over here . One second I thought I turned everything off , but the speaker was on . Oh good , we can do things . I'm like , oh , that's helpful , my brain so you found the common denominator .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I realized that once I buried them , they were like oh , you're so amazing , I love you so much .
Speaker 2And for someone who doesn't like themselves to have someone be so excited about how great you are , you're like , oh my gosh , I am great , like you feel so good and you just jump right in these marriages . Well , I did . I don't know about other people , but I sure did . I was like , oh'm gonna snatch this up right now , but then it quickly turned into the truth of the matter was that they didn't love themselves , so they couldn't love me and I didn't love me . So I'm attracting people who couldn't love me because I couldn't love me . So I think that they love me to the best of the ability . They knew how to , yeah , but that's all they knew how to do , and and so I internalized that as , oh , I'm not lovable . Therefore , I must be doing something wrong .
Speaker 2And I went to this seven-year marriage with my second husband and I know that he did the very best that he could and that he has his own pains and his own hurts , and I was , unfortunately , the recipient of all that hurt and pain , and I think that that's true of most of us . We take out our pain on the people we love the most . And it got really ugly and really dark . And after my second divorce , I remember laying on the floor and just sobbing my eyes out Like , how am I here again ? I did the work . I'm here again . How am I here again ? I did the work . I'm here again . How am I now in a place where I have to provide for two kids ? And they were very young they were . I think they were in kindergarten . My son had repeat kindergarten , so they're in the same grade , which is also fun and challenging , and so they're like these babies in kindergarten .
Speaker 2And I'm like , okay , somehow I have to pick up the pieces , figure out my life again and make sure you guys are fed . And I have to pick up the pieces , figure out my life again and make sure you guys are fed . And we have a house and we have all the things and I have to play mom and dad . And how am I supposed to do that ? And I remember just feeling so defeated and I realized that the thing that came to my mind was well , there's a common denominator , but it wasn't a mean thought . It was like oh , oh , baby , there's something here that you got to figure out and it was so clear to me you do not love yourself . You think you do like , you think you like these things about yourself , but you haven't understood deep love yet . And until you can get that deep love for yourself , you're gonna keep the pattern going . Yeah , like , oh , okay .
Speaker 2So then we need to fix this , and the first thought I had was to start changing the way that I talk to myself . I'm like , okay , fine , I started working on just on my negative self-talk , and that is the past five years of me being single . This round has been this deep dive into what it looks like to actually love yourself , because to me is not . I think I'm better than everybody . It doesn't mean I look down on other people . It doesn't mean that there's like this division there of us versus them . Confidence means I know that I'm freaking amazing , but I know where my amazing comes from .
Speaker 2So , whatever higher power you might believe in , it is just the universe is also a higher power . Like that is a beautiful thing to connect to . And if the universe is also a higher power , like that is a beautiful thing to connect to . And if the universe is conspiring for me to be in this beautiful place , it's taking my talents and manifesting them to the world for a good cause . So I think that that's what it means . It's like I know that I have xyz talent .
Speaker 2I'm so good at this and this and this , not so good at this , but I'm not shaming myself anymore for the things I'm so good at this and this and this . I'm not so good at this , but I'm not shaming myself anymore for the things I'm not good at . Like , I will openly tell people like I yeah , I suck at technology , I suck at directions and I suck at math them . I use a calculator for math , always , even calculating tips at dinner . I use a GPS for directions because even if I know how to get there , my sweet ADHD brain is going to go 9000 directions before I get there . So GPS reminds me . Hey , girl , you got to turn right . Oh yeah , no problem Right .
Speaker 2And like my technology issues , I got two brothers who are amazing at technology and even my dumbest questions . I'm like hey , bro , help me with this . And they always do so . I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at , and I don't get mad at myself anymore for not being good at those things . I just figure it out by getting support . I don't have to have all the talent , I just have access to them .
Speaker 1Which is so important and I think that's such an amazing lesson to learn at a young age is the ability to ask for help , in whatever form that that looks like , whether it's a calculator or GPS . I mean , I need my GPS to keep me on track too , because I do some of my best thinking behind the wheel and then all of a sudden I'm like oh yeah you know , right , exactly yes , bring you back to reality yeah , absolutely , which may or may not be a good thing when I'm behind the wheel , but I digress .
Speaker 1So fill us in a little bit more about your camps , because I love that you run these kindness camps for kids and I think that , like , teaching them these lessons at a really young age is so , so important . You know , we're going to be raising this next generation of women and kids , but women especially in my head that are not going to have to repeat the same layers of therapy and peeling back the onion and unlearning a whole bunch of behaviors that we picked up when we were younger . So tell us a little bit about these camps .
Speaker 2I love that , thank you .
It has been one of my greatest joys to learn how to figure out how to do this , because I would not say like , oh , I'm this entrepreneur at heart , I'm this . I've always dreamed of having my own business , like that wasn't something I really thought I was going to do , and so to try to figure out even like how to set up an LLC or to any of it , has been like this gradual process , because it's not my forte and I've had to ask for a lot of help and throw a lot of things in the wall to figure out what sticks . And I remember it was two summers ago that I had this thought I was trying so hard to get coaching rolling and it was just not working . And I'm like it's not my abilities , I have confidence in my abilities . What is not working ? And this thought just came to my mind People pay for their kids , for one , and that pulls at their heartstrings and you're good with kids , so why are you ignoring that ? I feel like I had to pick one or the other and I was like you don't have to pick one , you can still work with women and you're good with kids . Let's embrace both parts of you . That's fun for kids because I you know I stay pretty tame when I'm doing an interview , but I mean I will crump it out . I dance , party , I sing crazy sentences , like I . Just I'm very fun for kids and my teacher , my kids' teachers , will joke like they're growing up with a cartoon character because I'm jazz hands and you know it is , it's a good time at our house . But I was like , okay , let's step into that . What would that look like ? Amazing thing is that when you step into co-creating with whoever you think you're co-creating with , yeah , I , I personally subscribe to God . That's my flavor of spirituality and everyone's is beautiful and I love it . I have friends of all walks of religion and spirituality and I learned so much from every single one of them , and so for me I'm like , okay , what are we making here ? And all of a sudden it just became so clear . It was like , oh , you're gonna call it kindness camp , cool , here's the things you're gonna talk about , cool , and here's what you're gonna do . I was like , okay , I can figure that out , so I'm calling places to talk about cool and here's what you're going to do . I was like , okay , I can figure that out , so I'm calling places to find a venue and I'm figuring out all . You need event insurance . How do I find event insurance cool ? This is how much you do . Oh , I overpaid the first time . Now I know not to do that like .
Speaker 2The learning process has been huge for sure , and what's so fun is that when I first started I was like , okay , eight to 10 is like this beautiful pre teenager age . That's like child development . Wise , their brain is on fire . Right , they are these sponges . They are still like , so willing to learn stuff and they are just so excited to like look up to adults . Still , you know . So I was like , okay , great age , let's hit this age like the eight to 10 year olds , and let's do boys and girls , cause I want all kids to feel included . And then I found out putting boys and girls together at this age is tough , especially when you're talking about your feelings and what's going on for you . And so what's cool is at first I was really nervous , but this summer I have changed gears in the camp and what I'm realizing is actually me changing the format of the camp is this incredible act of self-love and this incredible chance for me to not be a people pleaser .
Speaker 2I was like , oh , we got to include everyone , we got to do five weeks and we gotta do different locations and wanting to let everybody be there and it comes from a good place . Like that's the thing people knock on . People pleasers like listen , you should love us , okay , because we're the ones who want to . Like make sure everyone comes to the party . Yeah , you know , like inclusivity is at my core , like I want people to feel included and and I can personally include all the people in my life , but when it comes to this business , I have to serve the way that makes the most sense for me and my life and my talents . I was like , oh , okay .
Speaker 2So now that I have had all these , these boys at my camp and I had one week that was like mostly boys , and then my daughter and it was rough , and these poor boys are like we're doing what we're painting rocks , like they hated it , right , and I realized it wasn't because I'm doing something wrong . I'm not leaning into my talents hard enough . My talents are I am a girl party , I am dance party , paint your nails , talk about your feelings , stay up till midnight eating ice cream like that is my vibe , I love it and okay . So let's lean into that . Great , I'm a great girl teacher . I connect really well with young girls and with women , so let's lean into that . And how can I stir them the best , get the boys out of the way , create a sisterhood ? And I bumped the age up a little bit . It is now like fourth to sixth grade , so it's a little bit more like nine , 10 to 12 .
Speaker 2Cause I thought you know , if I could have learned before I went to junior high that I have value , that I can say something and I have something to say . That's important and people can listen to me and I can listen to other people . Like I know those skills , skills , man , I think junior high would have been a little bit different . And I mean , junior high will always be rough . It's like a rite of passage , you know , kind of a horrible . Yes , no one wants to repeat it , right , but like if I could give them some tools to have at least a better experience in junior high and then the rest of their life , yeah , right , because as a mom I'm watching my kids and they've been through a lot .
Speaker 2My son's autistic , my daughter had a birth defect as a baby and almost died . She has a birth defect as a 40% mortality rate . She had two weeks in the PICU and it was . It was a traumatic experience and she's been to some trauma therapy and her therapist said , like when you have babies who have these kinds of issues , their body remembers the trauma that they experienced and so and then they got their parents got divorced and our marriage was so unhealthy is the word I'm going to use and so they watch that and so they've had all these hard things happen to them . But you know , what's so cool to watch is that my kids are thriving .
Speaker 2They're not perfect by any stretch , but we talk a lot about feelings in my house and even their dad , like his girlfriend's also like a psychology degree , like they're talking about those things at their house too and we're really inundating our kids with it's okay to say how you feel and it's okay to like yourself and it's okay to speak up and and sometimes I have to tell her to advocate to her dad like , hey , if you don't like what dad's saying , I can't fix this for you . What can you say to stand up for yourself and cause . That's going to be true for any adult in her life . She's not going to agree with every adult around her . True , for any adult in her life , she's not going to agree with every adult around her .
Speaker 2And so to watch my sweet nine-year-old , who is this tiny little ray of joy , to be able to tell people what she knows , what she likes about herself , that my daughter legit says things like oh , mom , that sounds like that was hard how she talks , because that's what we do in my house , right , and please bless . I am not a perfect human being by any stretch of imagination . I just have taken the pain that I experienced in my childhood in my marriages . I'm like no more , the buck stops here . My kids will not experience the kind of childhood that I did , and so we spend a lot of time working on those things . We have a mini kindness camp at my house every day , cause we talk about confidence and communication and emotional wellbeing and how to be inclusive and how to be a leader and what does that look like ?
Speaker 1And we break it down , and it is such a gift to be able to heal myself enough to be in a place where I can help them drastically change their future , which is all you can ask for right , all you can do , beautiful situation and story , and thank you for doing what you do and building this platform , because it is so important to help equip these , like this next generation , with the tools that we didn't have growing up . You know , our generation was told to kind of sit down and be quiet . We weren't allowed to speak up , right .
Speaker 1Like oh , you know , you feel crummy like well , too bad . Or I'll give you something to really cry about , kind of those types of phrases , right ?
Speaker 2Oh yeah , who hasn't heard that phrase ? I'll give you something to cry about .
Speaker 1Like oh , okay , will you ? You already did so . That's cool , exactly , exactly , and so I just love that you are creating the space for young girls . My daughters are almost 10 and no , almost nine and 11 . They're eight and 10 right now and you know it is . It's such a an amazing , amazing age , but also they're starting to have these challenges right , like it's like you want them to be able to speak up on how they're feeling , but also trying to teach them , do it in a kind way , like there is this like gray area for them where it's like this is just not . This is how I feel and I'm mad about it and I'm like , yeah , but also kindness , we can maybe learn how to say these in nicer ways right , right .
Speaker 2Well , that's together too , and it's , yeah , best of friends and worst enemies , and yes , totally , and that's the thing like we dive into like the emotion piece of the camp . It's like we have these feelings but we're responsible for our feelings , and that doesn't give us the right to dump our feelings on other people . And we talk about , like the impact of when we have a book we read . It's called how full is your bucket . It's a pretty popular book , but it talks about like everyone has this bucket and then we say and do these things , empty each other's buckets , which is a fine line too , because I'm not responsible for other people how they feel , but I do have an impact on other people , and so we are aware of our impact and we're aware of other people's impact on us , and so it is a fine line .
Speaker 2But I and I don't I can't say for certain , right , my daughter's not an adult yet , but if already at this age she can do these things , I can only foresee and project this like better future for her , that she won't end up in the relationship that I've been in , cause my marriages were not the only bad relationships I was in .
Speaker 2All of them up to this point have been bad , which is why I'm choosing to be single at this point , because I will not get married unless there's someone . I think is incredible , and I have not met that person , and so we are standing still in this space of until he rocks my world . We're staying here , but I , my hope , is that if I give these things to her and I instill within her a sense of value and a sense of all these things and all these tools , she won't even tolerate that kind of behavior . Yeah , I did . I let it happen because I didn't think I deserved any better and I didn't know any better . But this chick is going to know better . So when she has a boy treat her badly , she's going to say oh no , thank you .
Speaker 1Yes , which is so good . And you're also teaching her that when you don't know the next right step , that it's okay to just pause and stand still , which I think is so powerful , because a lot of society is like what's the next thing ? What's the next thing ? I know when I was growing up , this checklist I had to , like go to college , get the job , get married , do the things , and I felt like if I wasn't performing and I wasn't doing the next thing on the list , then you know I didn't have value , I wasn't putting worth out into the world . And so to just teach her to just pause and say , hey , like I don't need somebody to validate me and I don't need somebody to make me feel whole , I'm okay to just pause , I'm sure somebody's out there and it becomes long , fantastic , and if not , then I'm good , right , like it sets the just such a beautiful precedent for her to just know that it's okay to hit pause every once in a while , because life isn't going to be constant motion .
Speaker 2So no , well said , I love it .
What would you say ? The biggest difference on your parenting journey has been .
Speaker 2I love your question . I think they're so powerful . I think that honestly I know it's kind of touches on what we talked about but learning to heal me has been the biggest game changer in my motherhood , because I once had a coach talk to me about we're talking about trauma and kind of digging into some things with my childhood , and she talked about how and if you didn't get shown how to parent , you were out here just drowning to learn how to swim in the deep end , not knowing what to do , and so quit beating yourself up for not knowing what to do and so quit beating yourself up for not knowing what to do . If it wasn't modeled for you , how would you know that ? And so you focus on healing the parts of you that are hurting so deeply , and it's just going to open up the door for you to know how you want to parent . I was like okay , that's fair , I like that .
Speaker 2So I have spent a majority of my motherhood learning how to heal myself , and I know that we get in these conundrums , right . I'm like I want to spend time on myself , but then I feel selfish . But I know it's not selfish . They say it's not selfish and we get in these like loops . I do these anxiety loops of like well , I need to take time away so I'm a better person . But then it's so much work to take a step back from your kid because you have to find a babysitter . You got it . It's so many things and I can completely relate to that . I just I can say that there is nothing more important than your own healing . When mama is healed , it is a happier house , a hundred percent . It just is .
Speaker 1You've got two women here telling you the exact same story . Because when you have healed yourself , you show up better . So I love that . Last question before we sign off what would you say your like number one piece of advice ? Like , obviously we need to do the work , we need to heal ourselves , but when you are raising kids , raising strong willed blessings , what would you say your number one piece of advice is to help the moms out there . I can , can , I , I'm going to . I'm going to add onto that , because you did touch on on a community that you were able to build .
Speaker 1I'd love for you to be able to highlight how you were able to do that , cause I don't think it's an easy task when you are feeling isolated .
Speaker 2Totally yeah , so I can talk about the community piece for just a second , and then the advice . So the community is crucial . I think that we are meant to be in communities . If we were meant to be all alone , we would be . We're put on this earth in families . We are living in neighborhoods . We have communities all around us . It's accessing that community and I think that the most powerful way for me to be able to create that community is to be fully myself .
Speaker 2Brene Brown talks a lot about that . That like community is like belonging to yourself first and not trying to put yourself in some box so that people will like you . Yes , and at the end , so I think it's being yourself , because when you are just fully yourself , you magnetize to you the people that are like you . You just do . And I think the other part of it is that we have to be brave enough to be vulnerable , and I know that sucks and I know that it's scary to be like what if they don't like it ? But then that's through your work , take a step back , do some journaling and say what happens if they don't like me . What does that mean ? If I open up and say , hey , this thing's really hard for me , or I have this problem , or I need some help , or whatever . Is the scary vulnerable thing ? Write down what is the scary vulnerable thing that you want to say but you don't , you're too scared to . And then what would happen if they rejected it ? What would that mean about you ? What are you making it mean ? What's wrong with that ? And that's where you get to dig in Cause . Then you get to say , oh , mama , you are your own best cheerleader . You know exactly what to say to yourself . Like , can you have your own back If someone doesn't like what you have to say ? Because nine times out out of ten , when I have probably , honestly , probably ten times out of ten , when I have opened up and said , hey , this thing's hard for me or I'm doing this , like when I risk that vulnerability , it is almost always matched with love and compassion . There is something so beautiful about women sharing with each other , and so be yourself , be vulnerable and watch the magic happen . I love that , because when you're yeah , because when you're vulnerable too , then you have compassion for them being vulnerable , because when you are all like , just love is always the answer . Love yourself , love other people , love yourself enough to speak up and then it just circles around you . And I've been practicing this for years . So I'm in a different space now where I then when I first had babies but being able to create that has been so beautiful to see the magic happen .
Speaker 2And then the last piece of advice I would give to another mom is that everything else can wait . Connection with your babies cannot . I know that my babies are not very old they're only nine and 11 , but those years have gone so fast and the thing that I don't regret is how much time I've spent with them . And yes , there were times that I was crying in the closet because my husband was being so mean and hurtful and I was devastated trying to figure out my marriage . But for the majority of their life I've tried to show up the very best that I can .
Speaker 2And this is not to ever shame any part of your life or your motherhood where you didn't show up because you couldn't in that moment . And that's okay . We are never going to show up a hundred percent all the time . That would be exhausting . So no , thank you Not going to happen , but the more we can figure out how again to heal ourselves , love ourselves , show up with our kids , that connection with them . You are never going to get that time back . There's a lot of things you could go buy more of , or whatever , but you'll never get the time back .
Speaker 1No , you won't . And I mean I did . I spent a lot of my kids early years struggling and like wishing to bedtime and I can't get that time back Right . I wished it away and so it is . You know , I did the best with what I could , with what I had . You know , if I could go back and do it all again , that advice would be paramount , for sure . It's just spending Absolutely and do it all again that advice would be paramount , for sure .
Speaker 2It's just stemming Absolutely . The thing is , too , though , is that we can get really stuck in that why could have had this and I wasted that time , or whatever . None of it is a waste . All of it is a chance for opportunity for growth and learning right , because the times that I was like hiding in my closet , you're like I don't want to talk to these fools . You know , those moments are reflective moments for you to say why didn't I want to be around them ? What needs were not being met ? So that's what I want you to ask yourself , mama , is what needs are not being met for you right now ? Because it's not that you're a bad mom . We all have moments we want to punch our kids in the face , like we all have them . Hopefully , we're not doing that .
Speaker 1Well , we all have it . We're like .
Speaker 2I hate you so much right now , like we all have them , but it's just a chance to step back and reflect Okay , what is it that's not being met right now ? How can I meet those needs ? Cause they will never meet your needs , they will never fill your cup . That's not their job . Yeah , it's not supposed to be their job , no .
Speaker 2So the beautiful thing about the connection though it will hopefully pull you out of any shame spiral you might put yourself in it is never too late to connect with the people you love never . You can start right now and it doesn't matter . I've had some guilt about the times that I checked out from them because I was so depressed in my marriage , but guess what ? They don't ever talk about that . They talk about last weekend going to Aloha festival or going to the movie together , like , and yes , that's all part
of them . But you get to heal as a family , the more you connect . And maybe you need outside sources , right . Maybe you need coaching or therapy to heal those things . I'm not disregarding those because obviously I believe in them , but there is so much healing and connecting right now . So if you today go do a dance party with them or whatever it is you're going to do to connect with them . It will heal and it will continue to heal . So you're it's never too late to connect . You can always get back to that connection .
Speaker 1Oh , so beautiful . Well , thank you so much for being on the show today , annie , and thank you guys for tuning in today's episode where we help you conquer the chaos , one day at a time .