Dr. Nicole Wahab is a lifelong educator and serial entrepreneur. Nicole's story is a symphony of resilience, echoing Tom Petty's "Won't Back Down," and serves as a testament to never yielding in the face of adversity, whether leading from the front of a classroom or the helm of a business venture. She illustrates her drive and entrepreneurial spirit, from founding a charter school to being the corporate executive of a sports company and starting her own technology integration business. The episode ventures into the post-Covid era's call for career reimagining, where adaptability is king, and the courage to redefine oneself is paramount.
Learn more about Dr. Nicole Wahab.
Dr. Nicole Wahab is a lifelong educator and serial entrepreneur. Nicole's story is a symphony of resilience, echoing Tom Petty's "Won't Back Down," and serves as a testament to never yielding in the face of adversity, whether leading from the front of a classroom or the helm of a business venture. She illustrates her drive and entrepreneurial spirit, from founding a charter school to being the corporate executive of a sports company and starting her own technology integration business. The episode ventures into the post-Covid era's call for career reimagining, where adaptability is king, and the courage to redefine oneself is paramount.
Learn more about Dr. Nicole Wahab.
A ton of things have changed from when I was a K-12 administrator and definitely a high school administrator. I was very college centered, very, very college centered and college focused. And then we moved from college to adding career right, so it became college and career focused. So it became college and career focused.
Speaker 2:And now I just say, you know, like how about just being focused on tapping into the gifts that each child brings to the table. Welcome to the superintendent's hangout, where we discuss topics in education, charter schools, life in general, and not necessarily in that order. I'm your host, dr Sharetda. Come on in and hang out. In this episode, I sat down with Dr Nicole Wahab.
Speaker 2:Dr Wahab is a lifelong educator, a serial entrepreneur and, reading from her website quote hardwired to create new and innovative opportunities. I define myself as a mother of successful adult children and a partner to an equally driven man, but I am also defined by a dogged determination to build. I have built a successful career as an educator and leader, founder of two charter high schools and professor of organizational leadership. I have been the president of a global sports company and CEO of a technology integrator and, most recently, a marina owner, short-term rental entrepreneur and hiring extraordinaire. Dr Wahab and I cover a wide range of topics, from the challenges of her upbringing, overcoming family abuse, building her own family, her career, both in the private sector as well as in the public sector, how those two complement each other, what it means to bulletproof your life, and much more. I hope you enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Dr Nicole Wahab. Welcome, nicole. Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon, remotely from Georgia.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start with a different first question than I normally do. You're a sports fan, right?
Speaker 1:Big time.
Speaker 2:What's your walk-up song?
Speaker 1:Oh, how about Tom Petty Won't Back Down?
Speaker 2:Um, how about Tom Petty won't back down? Okay, there's a that that that that question could go any different direction, right? Sometimes people are like I forget the name and then they start to sing it. So, um, but don't back down is a good one. Um, how does that play into your origin story, the path that took you from um, you know, your know your childhood to where you are today?
Speaker 1:Well, you can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I won't back down. So that's really how it applies.
Speaker 1:I, you know, I had a rough childhood. It was not the easiest. I had ebb and flows of various different things. My parents got divorced when I was young, which probably was a good thing, wasn't a bad thing. They kind of went their separate ways and they needed to do that. And then we had kind of pure evil come into our lives. My stepfather was an abuser and he abused my brother and I both, and that continued for years.
Speaker 1:And I think, um, when you, you know, you asked me, you know how that song plays out, it truly was the gates of hell in some ways, but I refused, for whatever reason, I have no idea what it is Um, innately, just had some resilience and I refuse to back down, and I refuse to back down in a variety of ways. Um, I wouldn't let him steal my sunshine as much as possible. So, uh, when I went to school, if you ask people, you know, oh well, yeah, shit, that's that outgrowing girl. She, you know, she does a lot and she's into sports and she's academic and she's this and she's that. And, um, and she's academic and she's this and she's that, and so, you know, I learned really young to fake it till you make it. And so that really kind of started my path. And then I realized, well, at some point you're going to grow up, and when you grow up you're going to have to figure this out for yourself and you're going to want to be successful. And so what does that look like?
Speaker 1:And I think from a very young age I realized that there were people and pathways that I didn't want to join or be a part of because they were not going to get me to my end goal. And at that time I think my end goal was just get out and survive. And, um, you know, although get out and survive also meant go to college, it just seemed like that was the logical thing to do. If you, if I got good grades and I got to college, um, then I would get out of this house essentially. And, um, so that really kind of played out Um, I was, um, I was academic and I was a jock at the same time, but um, I, I was better academically than I was a jock, um, and so that that's that's probably.
Speaker 1:It's probably a good thing, because I think I learned pretty early on that, you know, those academics and those soft skills were going to carry me far, and I also, just you know, came from this place of determination, I think, when everybody else was out playing or wanting to do things that normal high schoolers would be doing. It's not like I didn't partake in what normal high schoolers did, but I never made it my defining moment. I was so afraid that if I, you know, did the wrong thing or I got with the wrong crowd or something, that becomes my defining moment, and then I'm stuck forever, and so I just refuse to be stuck forever, and I think that's where, somehow, I tapped into this beginning of resilience and it's carried me far, honestly.
Speaker 2:So thank you for your candor about your childhood. What led from very difficult childhood to resilience, to then school leadership? Um you, I knew you as doc Wahab or Dr Wahab, and we can talk about how many URLs you own, um, uh, with some combination of those. Um, but I met you when you were. You were running a charter school here in San Diego. What led you like, what's that path?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, so, really so that that whole piece of college, um, of college resilience was paramount, believe it or not. Like day one of my first day of college in San Diego, you know, I got out of the heck, out of Dodge the minute I graduated. So I graduated from high school, got in my car and I drove to San Diego and I never looked back and literally, and I mean that, like well, people were still at grad night, right, I never even went and I was ready to start my life. And so I started my life. I met my, who ends up becoming my husband of 23 years. We were married, but I met him day one. And when I met him day one, it was it was kind of incumbent on me to say, okay, well, wait a second, am I going to play around in, like you know, date and and do all of these things that you should be doing in college, or are you going to get serious? And I decided that it was just, you know, um, I had found the right person. Um, it seemed right and we got serious. And um got married, young, um had some kids, um, and it's during that process that I said I'm never going to stop any of what I, what I had going. And I never stopped schooling. Well, you know, while all that was going on, so literally got married, had two kids and three degrees within 12 years years, and so I just, yeah, I did not stop.
Speaker 1:I had, and during that time I worked as a teacher. I worked in Rancho, santa Fe, as a teacher that was kind of my early starting years there and then I worked in Valley Center and so I had my, you know, my fair share of elementary years of teaching and then, and I kind of just kept going up, the, up the, the ranks, if you will, in the teaching world. I enjoyed elementary but I was like, well, you know what, I think I want to be an administrator and if I really want to be an administrator, I better try out this thing called middle school. So I taught, you know, taught sixth grade and tried out middle school, and that was a whole. That was a whole learning lesson in itself, and then went on to high school. Actually, you know, during that time I also had the opportunity to meet multiple, you know, just longtime you know colleagues and friends in my doctoral program, my master's program and my doctoral program who were had their own goals too, and they were, and a lot of them were. You know, they wanted to be administrators and you know two of them were in Poway already, as you know, kind of the beginning administrators, either assistant principals or principals, and then, and then we're going to go on to probably bigger and better things.
Speaker 1:I had my eye on something a little different and this charter movement thing was very interesting to me. To me, and it just happened at the same time that I'm kind of finishing up my doctorate, um, at the tender age of 29,. Um, that, uh, I, you know, I I'm right in the crux of this, this new movement, and it was kind of exciting. It was really exciting. It was actually really exciting and I and I felt like it pushed me to continue my doctorate and finish that, because I wanted my shot and it comes from I was.
Speaker 1:I remember I was always like the teacher in the back of the faculty lounge, like you know, and we had the blueprint.
Speaker 1:Remember those days we had this like blueprint Right, and you're like, oh, we're going to follow the blueprint and you have to do it this way and this is your hours and this is, you know, from this time to this time we're gonna follow the blueprint and you have to do it this way and this is your hours and this is, you know, from this time to this time we're gonna read, and from this time to this time we're gonna have recess, and everything was really scripted.
Speaker 1:Um, and I realized that like our students were falling behind, like I. I saw it, I saw it happening before my eyes and I was just like well, wait a second, kind of had my hand up in the back of the lounge and I'm like you know, we're talking about this blueprint again, but how come we're not just doing what's right for Johnny? Like I don't, I don't get it. Like, and I remember distinctly that one of my principals said to me well, when you have your own school, you can write the rules to me. Well, when you have your own school, you can write the rules. Wow, what does that mean when you have your own school? So it was interesting because I think at the time, I think my brain only thought well, that means that you're going to have to have some type of, you know, private school and you're going to have to become some type of private school administrator.
Speaker 1:And I knew, I knew that that didn't really fit the mold for me. I was a public school kid. I do feel like a lot of what shaped me was from educators that cared to continue to kind of like say, hey, you know you've got a lot going on at home or you've got a lot going on in your head, but you know what, if you stay this path, this is going to change you. And so I wanted to be that educator. I was like, well, wait a second, how can I like reach the most amount of kids? And? And my classroom was awesome and being in a, you know, a K-12 administrator was going to be awesome, all of those things. But wow, wouldn't it be really cool, if you know, just kind of like what my principal had said to me, that I got to write the rules and I got to finally get off the blueprint, and so that's really where kind of we picked up and met is I had. I kind of always carried this dream with me. I had been to multiple functions and I ended up at Coleman University at a function one night and Dr Coleman Burr was there and he's like, hey, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, I'm a principal at Mount Everest Academy. You know, it's a K-12 in San Diego Unified. And he's like, oh, ok, so what do you really want to do? And I was like, well, that's kind of strange, like why would he ask me Of? So, what do you really want to do? And I was like, well, that's kind of strange, like why would he ask me? Of course, I'm like at the pinnacle of my career, I'm a principal like what would I want to do? And I said, well, since you asked, I'm like, honestly, I'd like to start a charter school. And, by the way, do you have $5 million? And he kind of chuckled and laughed. And I kind of chuckled and laughed.
Speaker 1:And the next thing I know, literally the next day, I get a call to my office that Dr Furr was on the line and he wanted to speak to me. And Dr Furr said, hey, were you serious about that five million dollars? I was like, yeah, I'm serious about that five million dollars. And he said, well, ok, well, why don't we work together and talk about this whole charter school thing? I don't know anything about it. But it seems like you know I built universities from the ground up and it seems like you're eager and excited to build some type of school system. You know what could we do?
Speaker 1:And I think you know it was just really during that conversation right then and there I said well, you know what? I guess we could reverse engineer all of this and we could start with homegrown tomatoes. Let's, let's, let's build a school that you know is centered around technology and has this, this opportunity to, you know, feed into your college. If that, if that's what you wanted, or if they want to go wherever, that's what you wanted, or if they want to go wherever. And so that's really kind of how it took place was partly giving an opportunity for kids in San Diego to have a school of choice, because I felt like education was very draconian at that time and I think it, and I think as, as parents, we felt the same thing too and just felt very pushed and charter was an opportunity or in school of choice was an opportunity to to change that for a lot of kids.
Speaker 2:I remember I think it was in conversations that you and I had when when I was interviewing successful school leaders for my dissertation, when I was interviewing successful school leaders for my dissertation that you talked about the school bus and starting or having at least a portion of the school operating for a period of time on a school bus because of something having to do with permits in a building. Can you tell our listeners kind of about that and what that did for your organization?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's interesting, we got the charter approved at the district level and all those good things, but the one of the biggest challenges at that time was facility. How do you, how do you really get a school facility? It was I mean, it still is a challenge. I mean, honestly, if you talk to charter leaders, they'll talk, you know, talk to you about facility. Facility is always a problem. We had ideas about putting it at, you know, at the university campus or doing different things, and so finally we ended up building a building. We thought everything was going to go perfectly fine and we would get the kids in class on time after marketing all summer and the whole nine yards. And, as it turned out, we ended up not getting our certificate of occupancy. And so not getting our certificate of occupancy literally put kids on a school bus to go do tours of other charter schools for the first kind of two weeks of school, just to be able to start school. And it's interesting because when you talk to those graduates that had that opportunity for those first two weeks of literally just being on a school bus and going to different charter schools to have kind of an introduction to what the charter school world looked like around the county school world. Look like around the county, you know they would say that that was. It was kind of a unique. It was unique schooling, but it was also a unique opportunity to see what type of schools are out there and it probably brought everybody a lot closer together.
Speaker 1:We started in very humble beginnings. Our first building was an old blood bank in Kearney Mesa and it was. It was, yeah, it was. It was small, it was tiny.
Speaker 1:We started, you know, we started there for the first two years and we knew that as we grew, that we would really want to have a permanent facility and it was Dr Furr's, you know, mission and goal to give us a permanent facility. And so we did end up eventually, by year three, building from the ground up, not only just building out the charter school as a system and institution, but we physically built a building as well as a system and an institution, but we physically built a building as well. So it was an interesting time for all of us to learn and grow and to see just exactly what School of Choice is. It's an opportunity to do things differently and to learn differently, and so I guess in some ways just even our struggles of finding a building and getting kids in seats and all of those things and just always just kind of wiggling our way through all of the obstacles, just made us that much stronger and it was. It was really exciting that first graduating class to see just how strong those kids were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one of those things that in the moment might not have seemed like a positive, but 10, 15, 20 years on, people think back on that as a galvanizing point in the organization's history. What was his name? Dr Furr. Yeah, what did he have to gain, do you think?
Speaker 1:So it's interesting, dr Coleman Furr was all about legacy. He had started the first. I mean it started even as a punch cards back in the early 70s, late 60s, early 70s. Typing school is what it really was. It started out as a typing school and it became a vocational school and then it became a true university over time.
Speaker 1:And I think what he was looking at is he had plenty of money. His name was well known in San Diego. Everybody knew Coleman University was. I mean, he had a ton of commercials, he had a ton of, you know, reach within the community and I think this was just another opportunity for him to continue his legacy. He cared deeply about education. That is, that is 100 percent percent. Part of his legacy is that he cared about education and he cared about educating those that weren't necessarily just book savvy Like he. He was excited about those that wanted to learn through technology or learn new technology or learn a vocation, and and so he, I think he saw that Coleman Tech was really like our opportunity to to grow it at a you know, grow kids at a potential younger age to realize that it's OK to to look at education differently and look at careers differently.
Speaker 2:So you did a significant stretch of time at Coleman and everything in life the only constant is change. So I think I'm not sure if Coleman University is still around. The charter doesn't bear that name anymore. It's kind of on to its next iteration, kind of onto its next iteration. But you then moved on to the pub, the private sector, if I'm not mistaken. Can you kind of describe some of that transition? And and I think in researching a bit about your, your resume, it kind of looks like you even while you were leading the school you did other private sector-y consulting and writing and stuff. So talk about kind of that transition and how that was for you.
Speaker 1:So I think there was. I mean, I'm a lifelong learner, right, so that's going to be, that's innate. I want to learn, I want to see different things and I just always felt like that. The charter school really was a way to scratch my entrepreneurial itch Right At the end of the day, it's still an entrepreneurial venture and I knew I really loved that opportunity to take something from nothing and grow it into really, you know, I mean something amazing a place where we graduate kids and they go on to college and career, and that was really exciting. And so while I was doing that, I mean I had an opportunity like most educators and administrators. You know I taught at Chapman University. I taught at National University. You know I had very I taught at Alliant International University as well, so we had all. I had a lot of opportunity to go out in and teach teachers and as exciting as it is to teach teachers or teach administrators, I kept kind of just going full circle.
Speaker 1:Back to, my favorite part of my EDD program was organizational leadership. I loved the idea of taking a company and building out what that looks like and how do you build the systems in which a company needs to function and all of the ins and outs and the intricacies of that, and so I kind of knew that that was a soft skill of my program, if you will. But then of course, as you know, school leadership from a charter standpoint, you really are a CEO, you are operating a true corporation, matter of fact, it's a legal corporation in California, right. So I mean it is a true corporation. And so I, you know there were various times that that just made sense to me, that I would continue to dabble in leader besides education, but with kind of that, still that bend of education. And so one of the things I did is I kind of created the Stellar Scholar Institute and through that I ended up becoming a.
Speaker 1:I, you know, had an article for Spotlight Sports magazine that was just basically behind the teacher's desk and behind the principal's desk, and you know just kind of the, the pathway and navigation of how do you take um kids and their concepts not only just on, you know, uh wanting to become uh successful in college and career, but how do you also do that for yourself as you kind of get pigeonholed into I'm an educator or I'm, or I run a charter school or I, whatever you know that little venture is, and it's huge. I still didn't want to get completely pigeonholed in there. I wanted to have an opportunity to still kind of play in the corporate world, and that was a way that I could do that. And so once I left Coleman Tech, I literally went to my mirror and I started manifesting what my next plan was, and I wrote on my mirror.
Speaker 2:Say that again. You went to your mirror.
Speaker 1:Went to my mirror, like my actual mirror, my bathroom mirror, and I took out a whiteboard marker and I wrote on my mirror kind of what my next goal was. And I had you know how we have on LinkedIn we get these little you know ads. If you will that, say, you know, oh, we think this position would be really good for you. You should, you should try applying for it, right? And so one of the ones I got was applying for the president of footballcom and I was like, wow, that's kind of cool, I love sports, I love football, you know, I'm a CEO Like, can I, can I make this happen? So I, that day I applied, and after I applied, I went to my mirror and I wrote on my mirror with a, you know, with whiteboard marker you're looking at the next president of footballcom. Well, what was interesting is I had put the next president of footballcom. I didn't realize that they'd never had a president. So it was. It was kind of exciting. I put that on there.
Speaker 1:Well, two months went by, I heard nothing. It was crickets, quiet, nothing, zero. I was like, wow, that's well, I guess that dream's going away. And I kind of walked by my mirror and I was about to like, just, I mean, I'm a little OCD anyways about that kind of stuff and I was about to clean it off and and as I was walking by and I said, no, wait a second, you know, I applied for a job, I'm a professional, they're a professional company. If, if they really didn't want me and they never were going to give me a chance, I would get a rejection letter. That's just the way it would be. And I don't have a rejection letter yet. So I kind of like started saying to myself so if there's not a rejection, then it's kind of like, well, then you're saying there's a chance. It's kind of like, well, then you're saying there's a chance. So so I kept living with the dream that, yeah, maybe there's this chance.
Speaker 1:And, lo and behold, my phone rang and it was footballcom and they wanted to interview me and I was super excited and it was unbelievable. Well, they, those 250 applicants, they had MBAs that have MBAs in sports management, they had everything that made sense for that job. And I, you know, I was like, well, I don't know. But I'm going to continue to just kind of dream this. I think that I would be awesome in this position, and the more that I got with the team and went into the second round interviews, third round interviews, those types of things, um, I realized that there was a bigger mission here and that mission was to, um, take a footballcom and and and use it as an actual platform to gain exposure for athletes to go to college. And I was like, wow, well, there's my in, like, if anybody knows how to get people to college, that's me. And so I really did kind of play up obviously that and, long story short, I got the position. I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1:Even my friend, dr Lopez Dan Lopez, he's so funny. We got our doctorate together and he was an administrator in Poway for many years and then went on to with his brother to create no Excuses University. But he was one of my references and when the owner of footballcom called to get a reference from him, he said you know, I'm just going to tell you this right now. I don't know how this girl thinks that she's going to do this, but if there's anybody, if there's anybody on the planet that can do this, is going to be her. So I all I can say is she does love sports, she does know how to build schools, she knows how to build programs, and she's dreaming this dream and all I can say is I hope it works out for her, and it did so. It was pretty exciting and I think that was when I said, okay, if there's a yes in the corporate world for that, then there's probably yeses in the corporate world for other things. And, um, and I can be, um, more than just a school entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:What is footballcom other than a super cool website? Web address.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so at the time. Yeah, so it is, it is an expensive right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a super cool, expensive toy. Footballcom was was definitely a at the time. It was kind of a media source and the goal was kind of like, what will we do with this? And so I was actually hired as the president of footballcom to go figure out and travel the world and figure out what could we do with this URL. The URL itself, the URL itself is probably one of the most sought after single word URL on the planet and everybody and their brother can use it. So they had already built. Before I even got there, there was an entire development team that had already built some business around it. But their idea was that this would be a large platform worldwide and we had managed additions worldwide.
Speaker 1:So when you went to footballcom in Ireland, it looked the way it needed to look in Ireland. If you went in Singapore, it looked the way it needed to look in Singapore. It was unbelievable. So a ton of money went into this platform and so this enterprise level platform you literally could upload videos of yourself. So like if you were a kid in Ghana and you just never got this chance to show off your footy skills. And you have amazing, you know soccer skills. This was your shot right. You could just go to an internet cafe and you could get on footballcom and you could upload a video and you could essentially reach somebody in the US or reach one of these other international you know football clubs and showcase who you are. So it was really cool. It was an opportunity for everybody to upload a video and be seen.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of plans around that and then in addition to that it was soccer management. So at that time big club soccer around, even just Southern California, for example. Big deal then, and big deal today then and big deal today Um. And it was just kind of a way to kind of have uh, everybody um on you know, on the on the club team, be on the same page. You know um at the very beginning of you know these social networks, and so that's what, that's what was built, um and um. And then we just kind of kept kept playing with the idea of what else could be, what else could it be used for, and, and so there's um. There's still a big question mark out there, I think. I think at some point, you know it's. It's used as media side. You can be used um, probably as uh, as gambling becomes legal in all of these States. It would be great for that. There's there's a lot of use for it.
Speaker 2:It's just one of those fun companies that is going to continue to morph over time because it's a single word URL that everybody knows and recognizes. I bet the NFL would pay an unlimited amount of money for that URL.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't think that, but you have to look at the big picture, right? So the interesting thing is, the NFL already has NFL, I mean, and that's what we recognize them as. So there is like a window. So just know this If you ever buy a URL, there is a window of time that you have to put some business around it, because if you don't, somebody will go past that and circumvent it and they say, oh well, you know what? They already have footballcom. But that's okay, we're the NFL, we'll just be NFLcom and we'll just totally circumvent this whole football thing because we can't own it anyways. So yeah, so just know that whatever URL you take, if you're serious about it, put some business around it.
Speaker 2:I was thinking back on that URL. I'm fascinated by people who buy URLs and either through strategy or blind luck it's usually probably the latter they end up with a super cool URL and they just pay to renew it every three years, and one day it's worth a lot of money. And I was thinking back to when, let's say this was probably the late 90s, I think, where I remember big companies were like well, is it really worth developing a website or not? You know, like Nike, and you know, like some of them just were like ah, it's not worth it, our business is bricks and mortar or whatever. We're like ah, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2:Our business is bricks and mortar or whatever. So now, 30, 25 years ago, and now you know, you look and you go oh my god, now everything is now. I think there must be almost be bots that sit there trying to create url, uh, potential urls, because just about anything under the sun is, so, is, is unavailable, anything, anything with AI. Now everything has AI, so you'd be footballai or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's interesting about URLs is that back in the day, so early 90s, when all of this is coming of age, it was expensive to keep your URL. So there there wasn't a go daddy, you know warehouse of being able to just kind of you know spin, you get your URL on a website for 1199, you know for the year. No, nothing like that exists. And so you literally did have to put business behind it. From the very beginning. You had to either start an LLC or a corporation or whatever, and you had to keep that going.
Speaker 1:And in California, you know, you know that's an expensive venture right there. So imagine that to be able to even keep something that you've had since 1994, 96, 97, whatever it is, that is already what was already a very expensive gamble, and it's real estate. At the end of the day, urls are real estate and so, yes, like you said, and there are bots that collect them. But at the same time, there's people like me I think I have, I think I'm right at 21 URLs that I own, and of the 21, I've tried to probably have like six or seven that have true business behind them right, right, the rest of just kind of dormant out there, yeah, yeah, well, I'll always.
Speaker 2:No one's ever going to buy anything related to my name because it's so unusual. So I think david shoretta will be will be, uh, available forever, unless one of the one of my tens and tens of listeners decides to go out and put down good money to buy David Shredder dot com, which would be a creepy thing for them to do so. In preparation for this, I was kind of reading about your philosophy, not only in business but in life, and I ran across this phrase of making yourself and others bulletproof, and it strikes me as instructive and significant that you had such a challenging childhood and you've, in many ways in your life, been able to overcome that and achieve significant things and have a positive outlook on life. Can you talk about what it means to bulletproof your life and how you use that with others?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I. I think the the bulletproof concept is you know it's strong, right, it's different than resilience, because resiliency is like something that we're not sure, we still can't figure out, like, does it, is it nature? Is it nurture? Who has it? Why do you have it? Sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't have it. There's these, there's this kind of ebb and flow of resilience.
Speaker 1:Being bulletproof means that it kind of is like you put on, once you put on the vest. Once you put on the vest, you just nothing can penetrate you and everybody and their brother is going to take a shot at you, right? That's just the way life is, and life itself is going to take shots at you. And I think that's just something that I've had to learn is like you know what? I'm not going to let anybody take a shot at me. I'll start from a very beginning of becoming bulletproof.
Speaker 1:Is I was and I'll even use her name Keely Lambert. I don't even know if she still exists, but back in fourth grade we used to do those little tally mark things right. And girls are so relentless in fourth grade. They're like the worst, right, they're terrible. And she had this like little tally list and she came up running up to me and she said these are the number of people that like you and these are the number of people that like you and these are the number of people that don't like you. And on that list, right, it was like it said. It says you meaning just me, and it was a one, and then everybody else, and it was like 7,000, tally marks, right, and I was like damn, that's mean.
Speaker 2:That's, that's. That's bullying. Pre-social media.
Speaker 1:Right, that's bullying. Yeah, so right, that's bullying. Yeah, so bullying's been going on a long time. That's right and and and I don't know that I like I don't even know. I don't think we ever really talked about that, right, as gen xers, we don't really know what bullying is. We had no idea. We just got beat up by certain people and we moved on. But I remember it was.
Speaker 1:Then I was like well, that's not very nice, and I just had to find a way to put on my jacket and be bulletproof and like not let that bother me. And I remember going into the girl's bathroom, crying for a little bit about that and then coming back out. And then the second I came back out like two of my little friends that remember, everybody doesn't like me, right, everybody. And so two of my little friends that remember everybody doesn't like me, right Everybody. And so two of my little friends came up to me and they were like oh. And I was like, oh, yeah, you got to be bulletproof against this person, not the whole world, right? And so I think, I think from a very young age I realized that you're going to have to do that. I had to protect myself in my own family. I had to protect myself. You know, as I grew up, I had to protect myself anytime somebody got jealous of something that I did or didn't do. It's the world is cruel. The world is a cruel place and you're not going to be everybody's cup of tea. The world is a cruel place and you're not going to be everybody's cup of tea. You're just not. And I think even in the charter world, I had to be bulletproof. Right Like there's. There were people taking shots at me when I'm trying to build a school that, literally, is going to cater to, you know, socially, socially, economically disadvantaged and students that have, you know, disabilities and everything's all inclusive, and so nobody should be taking a shot at that. Nobody should. They should just be like wow, that's so freaking cool, that's awesome. No, that's just not life, right. And so I yeah, I have had this stiff upper lip fake it till you make it.
Speaker 1:Like I said, from the very beginning of this podcast, and part of that being bulletproof, I thought, well, you know what. I've taken that concept in my life, I've applied it to business, and I think this is now the time to kind of start talking more about how do you do that, as you're going into middle age and beyond, right, and so as we're heading into retirement years and different genres of our life, we're going to have to become bulletproof again, and so I actually am going to be spending some time. Probably I've already kind of of skeleton, if you will, a backbone of a book for this and we'll kind of see how how it evolves. But the you know, the premise is is that you can, you know you can build this type of resiliency that equals success and and that could be for business or your personal life, and the way to do that is to be able to let those, those shots bounce off of you.
Speaker 2:So at a certain point you, if I'm not mistaken NFLcom was not an NFLcom, see, I'm already projecting, footballcom was located in California. And then, at a certain point, you left the state and you ended up in the South. I'm not sure if Kentucky is deep South or South light, I think I think Georgia. Anyway, you, you tell, you tell me what brought you there, uh, and what was that like as a transition in your life, personally, professionally, um, geographically?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, interesting, all in one kind of fell swoop. So footballcom was sunsetting, and, and at the same time, I had another offer from this group of IBMers that I'd met networking's, everything right. And so you continue to network, and, and so I ended up building a system integration company with them. And as I did that, I you know my, my kids were going off to college, I was going to be going through a divorce, the world was changing in just every aspect of everything, and during that time, I think I just started to like, lose my identity. I'd already lost my identity as an educator and I wasn't really sure what that meant and as a school leader. And then I was like, okay, well, now I'm a corporate business woman, um, and now I have a new identity, um, and new people taking shots at me and new problems, and so, um, and then, at the same time, I'm, I'm also trying to like personally, you know, grow past the title of mom and and and wife. That's huge. I mean, when you start losing these titles, these large titles that defend you, know, that define you, you, you realize that, you know that that things you know, life goes on and things change, but you also need to change.
Speaker 1:And so COVID actually is what forced me out of Southern California. So I wasn't, I was going back and forth. I'd already bought a lake house in Kentucky and it was really just because I wanted a spot of respite, right. I just was like, well, how nice would it be to just be able to be, you know, a lake house, fishing and enjoying life. And I could already work from home, so, with my system integration company. So I was like this is just perfect and I could just go back and forth to Dana point when I need to, that sort of thing. And I did up until COVID. And now we're back into redefining. Everybody has to redefine themselves again. Can you, can you afford two places? No, that's a reality. No, you can't. Okay, so something's got to give. Well, I guess I'm moving to Kentucky. So it was, it was exciting, it was the right choice. It was the right choice. My kids were often doing their thing in Wyoming, so it wasn't like I had. You know, there was no ties left to Southern California, and so it was just the right timing.
Speaker 1:Went off to Kentucky and continued to build different entrepreneurial you know pursuits there, and I think that's where I kept getting phone calls from everybody after COVID, all of our, so all of Gen X, right, if you were already seated in a position and you were like you know, you're an educator and you've got a pension or you've got, you know, you've got something already done and you weren't going anywhere because your position wasn't going anywhere, then you were then most likely you're going to stay where you're at. But during COVID, if you were a Gen Xer who decided at like some point to exit that that life, like I did, and go to a corporate world there's no stability anymore, right, that stability is gone. And so once that stability was gone, I realized, well, I'm going to have to reinvent myself, I'm going to have to figure out what I want to do next. I ended up buying a marina with my brother and some investors, which was a lot of fun, because that's kind of what you do in the lake life and it was during that time that I just kept getting phone calls from just you know, friends networking, people that are you know, people that have seen my story and said wait, you, how does how do you go from like educator to the corporate world to like you could just go do whatever you want and you don't have to worry.
Speaker 1:You could just go do whatever you want, um, and you don't have to work You're you're not stressing about it, like, how come you're not stressing about, like retirement, or stressing about your, your paycheck or all those things? Um, I do stress about those things, but it was, I mean it's, it's a trade-off. And then the and the trade-off was that I was going to have some freedom to do what I wanted to do and pursue different things, and and and. So when I got, I got a call from a friend that said I don't get it, I don't know what to do. I've lost my job. Corporate world Right, lost my job. I don't think we're coming back. When we do come back, I don't think my position is going to be there anymore. We're coming back. When we do come back, I don't think my position is going to be there anymore. And all I know and have ever done is X right. And so it was just, call after call, that same story.
Speaker 1:Attorneys were going through the same thing, especially if they were beginning attorneys. I think a lot of us have tried various careers. We didn't. We're not the baby boomers that stuck with the same program all the way through, and so we've tried different careers or we've tried different things and, as we know, corporate America lays off everybody at some point, you know, and when they get laid off, you know what do you do next. And so that this idea of reinventing yourself and being able to to try new things and do it kind of fearlessly is also part of being bulletproof.
Speaker 2:Now that you have this perspective of the private sector and the public sector, what's one thing that is easier to do or to accomplish in private business and what's one thing that's more complicated?
Speaker 2:I've worked my whole life in public education in one way or another and you know you fall into. You know I mean I've I've done private work, but for the most part this is my, has been my, my job, for my career for 30 years and you fall into kind of a group think type of mentality, right about concepts of security, whether they're real or imagined. That that's a different thing, right, concepts of people being able to lay people off really easily or not. And I can say that even in the charter world, where there isn't union protection, typically I think the nature of, for example, education in the public sector is that typically people don't want to lay people off, people don't want to take a metric and say I'm sorry, after this many attempts you're not achieving. So you know, find somewhere else to work. But what are? What's one thing in in your experience in the private arena that was easier or better maybe, and then what's one thing that was more difficult?
Speaker 1:I think in the private sector, what's easier is that everybody's already used to the corporate structure. And so if you're working in corporate America, you already understand those nuances, you understand that your boss, you're working in corporate America, you already understand those nuances. You understand that your boss may bring you in and say hey, you know everybody, if you notice sales are down, and when sales are down, that means that we're not, you know, bringing enough revenue. And if we're not bringing in enough revenue, we're not able to hire new people. And guess what? You're a recruiter and what you do is hire people. So since we're not bringing in enough revenue, we're not able to hire new people. And guess what? You're a recruiter and what you do is hire people. So since we're not hiring anybody, your job's going to be eliminated. You know, it's just kind of A plus B equals C.
Speaker 1:Where in the education world, it always felt like and just like you said, you know, there weren't those protections. There's not those union protections, there's not tenure, there wasn't those things that you know. That we, you know you and I got to experience when we were in regular public education from the beginning. Oh, you get your budget and you go. Hey, you know what Some things might need to change. I think there was always like this hope that, oh well, the state might do better, or oh, there might be some new grant, or oh, there might be this. Where in the corporate world there's very little hope, it's not a wing and a prayer situation.
Speaker 2:And the metrics are very clear. Yeah, right, I mean, especially in a private corporation that's got investors, whether you're listed or not. But the people who have the most skin in the game are going to have the most influence on decisions. That's the metric. You don't sell enough widgets. This is what it's going to be, I think.
Speaker 2:In nonprofit public spheres and certainly in school districts, the metrics just aren't that clear at all. Right, so you get in this situation where people go, oh well, okay, yeah, revenue's down, revenue's down, it's down for all these other reasons, um, somewhat external to us. But we're having a hard time deciding if this person, this initiative, this program, this piece of software is worth it or not compared to the other one. And what? How do we judge that? And someday someone's going to do a research study.
Speaker 2:But you always hear these stories that in a traditional school district it takes three years and $150,000 in legal costs to terminate a teacher after they've been tenured, for example. And then people in a charter school world say, oh, we like not having those structures so we can move more quickly. The reality is, I'm not sure how much more quickly people move and whether, because there's this. First of all, most of us went through traditional public school experiences to get to where we are and and you know so, our teachers and our staff, everybody kind of had that preparation and so to to get into this like performance-based, metric-based world. Um, it's hard. You know humans. You know humans don't don't like to violate the sanctity of the herd. Um, the hunter-gatherer clan, you know. And when you, when, when someone, you're asking someone to be eliminated from that circle, even if you help them land softly, there's, I think, something in the back of our heads it's like, ah, that could, that could be me, you know, or you know, I don't want them to do that to my best friend or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think I think you know, I mean it's funny because you always hear this I love it when people go, well, well, it's easy to let somebody go. You know it's an at-will world. You know, we're at-will, we're at-will. Employees were at will employees. Well, we know that. That's just not true. Like, at the end of the day, like, did you document things or did you put them on an improvement plan? Did you follow anything? You can say at will all you want, but if they have enough money and clout or documentation or whatever, if the stars align for them, they can legally pursue you, right.
Speaker 1:And so I think there's more fear in the education world of that, for whatever reason I have no idea, even at the district level, right, like it's there, you see it. It's like well, no, we don't want to do that. That's kind of crazy. Let's just go put them in the rubber room instead and let them, you know, bounce balls until they retire, because we don't want to deal with that craziness. We're in the rubber room instead and let them, you know, bounce balls and till they retire, because we don't want to deal with that craziness.
Speaker 1:We're in the corporate world, it's, it's so, it is so binary right. It's like here's, here's the match, not only here's the metrics, but the bank account doesn't have the numbers. So therefore, it is what it is, you know, and your position's gone, your team's been eliminated, this widget stopped this. Whatever it is, we're restructuring, we're bankrupting all of these things and and it's just business as usual.
Speaker 1:And I think that I think that is definitely something different about the corporate world. It makes it. I mean, I've always, you know, I've been accused multiple times, even as a charter leader, right that you, you act sterile. We're not here to make decisions based on emotion or anything other than the facts and the metrics. But you also, once you do make that decision, you do have to be a little bit sterile in your approach because of how litigious people are and you don't want to say the wrong thing and you don't want and what is a soft landing? It sucks. It sucks Anytime somebody gets laid off or is told their position's eliminated and then they have to go home and figure out how to make life happen.
Speaker 2:Well, on my drive in this morning, I was listening to a podcast interview with the founder of Netflix, reed Hastings, and and he's in, you know, tangentially he's he's a big charter school supporter as well, but he has this slide deck that's now become famous about the culture at Netflix. It's supposed to be an internal document, but he was describing about how the first time he shared it with someone, they realized after the fact that that person was going to put it online and then he thought that was a negative, but then he realized it was a positive, because now people read it before they even apply to Netflix Right. One of the central tenets of their corporation was the reward for adequate performance is a generous severance package at Netflix. That's their philosophy, and so you know he's like this is who we are and you know we're not trying to ruin someone's career. After they, if they perform adequately, we're going to help them move somewhere else and we'll give them, you know, half a year or whatever, compensation and they're going to go do their thing.
Speaker 2:We want exceptional people in our organization. And that was like wow. I started to break into a cold sweat as I was driving Cause I thought, wow, if I put something like that on some of our foundational documents, einstein academies I'm you know. I can anticipate all kinds of consequences of that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 1:So Well, and I think it's interesting that they say that. Right, but at the end of the day, is it you know how, how much of it's true, like what and who, and how subjective is it? Because it also has to do with, I mean, at the corporate level, right? Their shareholders are making all the decisions, so he could be inadequate. He could be inadequate the next day. I think the only inevitable thing and it's it's really interesting the only inevitable thing about a CEO is not only that you talked to you, you said change, but it's not just change. The only inevitable thing is you will be removed at some point. Yeah, cause life has to go on.
Speaker 2:You're either. You're either going to well, it's the same in school leadership.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. It's that same thing.
Speaker 2:At any executive level. Right, it's either you're going to get removed from by uh father time uh anticipated or not. You're, you know you move gonna move horizontally, you're gonna move vertically, or you're gonna move vertically the other way, um, because you get fired, or you know what, what and and I think you know, and I'm sure you had experience working with with boards, for example, corporate boards and or even just a group of founders you know powerful people who have a say and a stake, and and I I think that it's probably not too dissimilar from from working in a, you know, in a public setting with a board, perhaps, with the difference that sometimes, when you're working in a school board in the district with with elected officials, you're dealing with with people who are there for a very short amount of time. Uh, there's a lot of turnover and churn, um, but you know, I think these are, these are these are really important uh elements to reflect on as we move through our life.
Speaker 2:I wanted to ask you, um, you've been very generous with your time and so, um, I don't want to um drag you farther outside of your day than we've already done, but I have a couple of questions about what your life is like now. So you list on one of your websites, one of the 21 URLs that you own, that you have a creative side, that you are a chicken enthusiast. I'm assuming that that means raising and harvesting eggs, not necessarily Kentucky fried. What does a typical day look like for you, and how does this creative side compliment your other pursuits?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I like to be grounded. That's just something that means a lot to me. I think part of that being grounded includes discipline, and things that are disciplined usually have some type of routine, right. So that's the reality. And so when you're raising chickens, they have a routine, they have a very specific way that you care for them and you want to make sure they lay eggs, and if they are going to lay eggs, they're going to lay them because you're taking care of them and you're creating stability for them, and so that's really, I think, where that came from.
Speaker 1:I, you know, I enjoy gardening. I have always had a green thumb. I love working with the land, I love fishing. I'm kind of one of those I mean, I hate to use the term because I don't even know what it means anymore but growing up, I was just always the tomboy, right, like I have five uncles and and, uh, you know, on one side and it was one of those things. Like you know, first thing in the morning everybody's going fishing.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm like the only girl and yeah, you just become the boy and you just go do what the boys do, and so I I really kind of, you know, picked up a lot of those kind of fun outdoors habits and they make me feel good and they make me feel kind of grounded in in you know, in what what life is, and I think especially, I mean, if you're going at race, it's interesting. It's like it's like you raise your little, your little chicks, which were my kids before. Now it's like okay, now you can have a new, new set of of of kids, um, cause those ones are already grown. Well, the same thing happens with the chickens right, there's, there's a life cycle in it and when it ends, it ends.
Speaker 1:Same thing with, you know, when you you know I'm a dog lover too you know it's like it's the saddest thing. You know that dogs only last on this planet. You know, 13 to 15 years if you're lucky. It's. There's just this cycle of life and I enjoy that and I think that that type of nurturing makes me feel good.
Speaker 2:What advice would you give to K-12 educators K-16 educators to better prepare students for the type of life and work you've had, students for the type of life and work you've had. You've been flexible and adaptable and courageous and resilient or bulletproof, depending on how you define that. How can schools inculcate some of those qualities in students?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, I mean we have we school of choice isn't is important, right? This is, this is not. There's nothing more critical than that. Um, every parent should be able to have a choice in how they want to educate their kids. And I'm you know, if you want to homeschool them and you want to raise them on your land, and that's what you want to do, go do that. I mean you can do whatever. You can do whatever you want that makes you feel like you're able to holistically grow a child.
Speaker 1:I do think a ton of things have changed from when I was a K-12 administrator and definitely a high school administrator. I was very college centered, very, very college centered and college focused. And then we moved from college to adding career right. So we college centered and college focused. And then we moved from college to adding career right. So we became college and career focused. And now I just say you know how about just being focused on tapping into the gifts that each child brings to the table and then being able to help them to harness that and foster it and grow it to their full potential, whatever that is? I mean there are amazing kids out there right now.
Speaker 1:I mean I have one that did my entire I mean anything and everything that I wanted, woodworking wise in my house in Kentucky. He built for me A custom bar, an all wood ping pong table, a custom, you know, kentucky bourbon wall, you name it like he could do anything. And he started that. When I met him he was 17 years old, he was just about to graduate from high school and, um, and I asked him I said so what are you going to do? And and and, naturally, because he had this like and he had built his own like log cabin on his property so he could just kind of have his own place away as a kid would do, right type thing. Um, and so he built his own little thing. And so, naturally, I just figured he was going to say woodworking, right, just kind of makes sense, Like, or he was going to go to college he's super smart and I was like, well, so it's either college or woodworking. And he said no, I'm actually two weeks from now, I'm going to welding school. I was like, wow, that's amazing. And he did. He went to welding school, came straight out at age 18, making $80,000 a year, and the sky has been the limit ever since. And he is, you know, that's what he loves.
Speaker 1:And so somewhere we have lost the ability to listen to our kids personally and to our kids that we are entrusted with, to help them to formulate those dreams. And I think there's not one size fits all approach. There's not a one size fits all school, as we know, but there's definitely not a one size fits all philosophy either, and the idea of college and career and what that means. And is it a STEM world anymore? I don't know, I don't think it is. I mean, we have to evolve, we have to change.
Speaker 1:If we're concerned that AI is going to take over jobs, the jobs that they should be concerned with, I think originally everybody was like, oh, it's going to be the medial jobs, those low paying jobs that AI will take over? Absolutely not. It's going to be the high thinking jobs that everybody's going to, that AI is going to take over. So if that's the case, you know, does it make sense to turn out a whole bunch of systems, you know, integration engineers right now? I don't know, you know. So I think we have to. We have to.
Speaker 1:We're going to have to continue to evolve as the world evolves, and our concept of education is definitely in for, I think a shock it already was. I think we were already at the beginning of it, as we were all starting charter schools, right, and the forefront of that, and we thought, wow, this is so innovative and so different and so new. But oh my gosh, we are. We are in for a new surprise, I think, as we continue to think that there's some, you know, blueprint to this education process and and standardized education. I don't know what that is, cause I don't know education. I don't know what that is because I don't know that, I don't know that it's going to exist that much longer.
Speaker 2:It's interesting when you describe the young man who built, who did so much work in your house and becoming a welder, and hopefully he went to a school that fostered that and supported those types of activities. But very often our students don't.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I just was speaking with a nationally recognized expert on chronic absenteeism which, as you know, pre and post COVID was night and day and now isn't snapping back to pre COVID levels the way that maybe we thought it would, isn't snapping back to pre-COVID levels the way that maybe we thought it would. And it begs the question of connection and understanding and relevancy of what's going on on campuses. And do kids really see a through thread from what they're doing today to where they're going to be in the future and marketable skills and things that they're interested in? This expert said to me actually the programs that have CTE, you know the career tech stuff, the welding, probably carpentry, certain coding although AI is going to kind of change that, but you're still going to need a human to know what questions to ask AI. Those are things that actually have been shown Ask AI. Those are things that actually have been shown. Schools that have those programs have higher attendance and lower levels of chronic absentee.
Speaker 2:We kind of our idea and especially as we have our own children and we see they pursue one thing and then they wake up and they go. I don't even. I'm not even I'm chasing the wrong thing. I really want to do this and you go. You kind of have to love them and say, hey, okay, you know, I'll support that if it makes you happy. Say hey, okay, you know, I'll support that if it makes you happy. It took me a long time in my life to get to the point where I realized that it was important to be happy Because, as a type A person, I just always felt like you put your head down and you just kept rolling the rock up the hill.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was it. You just rolled it up the hill and when it came down in the night, you rolled it up the hill. I want to keep. Down in the night you rolled it up the hill again and, um, who was that? Sisyphus or you know? And and it's like okay, but it would be great if you enjoyed it while you were doing it. You know if you can have a smile on your face and maybe once in a while you could roll the hill, the rock down a hill, right, great. I just have two more questions for you. You've been very generous with your time. What would your present self, whatever age you are, I'm not going to ask you what would your present self tell your 20-year-old self about what lies ahead, the trials and the tribulations?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, what's interesting is I did a lot of living between 20 and 29. Probably most most of my living was was during those years. I had my first kid by 22. I was married. You know, I was married at age 20. So I had like this like very quick Adulting happening in my twenties that maybe like even my kid. And so my son, who's now what 20? He's gonna be 25. Um, yeah, I mean I'm like, does he get to adult? This? Is he adulting the way that I adulted? No, he's not. He got to really enjoy his four years of college and then he got into career and he's doing his thing and he's, you know, he's like slow, what I would call slow rolling his 20s Right, so he's really getting to do that.
Speaker 1:So if there was anything that I could tell myself then is that you are, you are required, you are required to enjoy the journey. Stop looking at the destination. Enjoy that journey, because it went by so darn fast and I, um, I was so busy and I was doing so much in my twenties that when I got to 30, it was like I was supposed to be doing like the beginning of adulting, but I'd already been adulting for so long that I was supposed to be doing like the beginning of adulting, but I'd already been adulting for so long that I was already exhausted. So so I'm kind of it's funny, because now that I you know, I play this game with my friends all the time. So there was two sets of philosophy.
Speaker 1:Right, you either have your kids, you get married and have kids young and you're poor and you have to, like, figure it all out, and you have to, like, you know, get your degrees, and you have to do everything all at the same time that you're raising kids. Um, or you go to college or you know, or career, or whatever you're going to do and enjoy your twenties and have fun and get married when you feel like it and have kids when you want to. And then now you're, you know, or career, or whatever you're going to do, and enjoy your twenties and have fun and get married when you feel like it and have kids when you want to. And then now you're, you know, heading towards 50 and you still have kids in the house.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what. I'm not sure which way is the right way to do it, but it is reversed. So my 20 year old self. I worked too hard in my twenties, but I'm glad that I checked those boxes then, because now I have a different level of freedom and it's probably the same freedom that I would have had in my twenties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but my my dad always said hard now, easy later. Easy now, hard later.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so there's probably there's, there's wisdom going both ways in that.
Speaker 1:It would have been nice to have some money right, like have money and then have kids, like that probably would have been probably a good way to do it. But you know why do it that way, struggle, and then figure it out and then and make it happen. I just think I think it's, you know, I don't know, six of one, half a dozen of another.
Speaker 2:And you know, and like as you said with Coleman Tech Charter, like struggle defines us, and it sounds like your struggles as a child and as a teen helped not just define you because you've overcome them, but help make you bulletproof right as you move through your life, and so we sometimes wish we had a magic wand to erase all those pieces.
Speaker 2:But when you and I met in the interview for my dissertation and I asked the same question about obstacles that other leaders had faced and they were, you know, a range of obstacles, from similar to the ones you faced to tragic, like things that happened in their school community, to human resource related disasters, and they describe it and you could see them going through. And then at the end I always ask the same question If you could go back in time, would you erase that? And not a single one, I think I the same question If you could go back in time, would you erase that? And not a single one. I think I had 30 or 40 interviews. Not a single principal said oh yeah, you know what I could do without that, Even the gnarliest stuff, because it helped define the course of the organization and their own leadership.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, it's interesting that you say about erasing it, because the one thing that I did learn about myself is that I heart, because part of those little minds that come into our you know our room each day. It's our job to erase the craziness that's their real life and give them an opportunity to feel hope and feel like there's something better out there, and I think that is. I mean, I get emotional thinking about it, because I always gravitated towards the kids that I could see needed that same bit of advice that I needed when I was a little kid, which is, you know what? It's going to get better, but it's not going to get better without you making it better and making better decisions and making better plans and making better friends and whatever. That is right, and so you have to take that to heart and that is part of reinventing yourself and that is part of being bulletproof. If you think you're going to be bulletproof and you don't have to be disciplined, you're wrong.
Speaker 2:No shortcuts.
Speaker 1:No shortcuts.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you one last question. It may be somewhat connected to some. Well, it'll probably be connected to a lot of the threads that we started to pull today. You have the opportunity to design a billboards for the side of the freeway. I'm not sure there are freeways where you live. So Country Road, John Denver, take me home. Country Road, I think you said you live half an hour away or an hour away from Atlanta, so you're driving on a freeway. You have the chance to design a billboard for the side of the freeway. What does Dr Wahab's billboard say to the world about what you believe?
Speaker 1:It is probably the most important thing to be unstoppable.
Speaker 1:And that's it. Just be unstoppable. Be unstoppable in everything you do, because if you buy into yourself being unstoppable in everything you do, when you hit those low points and you get those dark days, I've had them. I've been dark before, I've been sad before. I've been low before, in my childhood, in my middle age, in my adulthood, you name it. It's happened. In my middle age, in my adulthood, you name it. There it's happened. But I have to, like, pull myself back together and say you know what You're unstoppable. You have to, you have to believe that. And part of our biggest problem is Gen Xers, I think and this is a generational thing is like you said we were, we were taught to grind, we were taught that you know the. You know the early bird gets the worm. We are taught all of these things that you know. That are these adages of part of being unstoppable means that you are also unbreakable, but you're not. You can break, and this is that's the fallacy. You can break and still be unstoppable and this is.
Speaker 1:That's the fallacy you can break and still be unstoppable. Cause I think I live. I lived my first part of my life thinking that if you break, that changes everything. So that was that. Fake it till you make it thing. So you're not allowed to break. So that is. It is absolutely true that we can break and still be unstoppable.
Speaker 2:That's a I a perfect place to wrap today's conversation. I really appreciate your time. It's been inspiring, learning about your journey, what you've overcome, how you've reinvented yourself many times, and I wish you all the best. We'll have to do this again sometime.
Speaker 1:Love it. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I'm excited to tell you my story and I really enjoyed our time.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the Superintendent's Hangout. You can follow me on Twitter at DVS1970. Please be sure to share this show with friends and family on social media and in the real world. Thank you to Brad Backeal for editing and production assistance and to Tina Royster for scheduling and logistics. Thanks for hanging out and have a great day.