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#71 Lee Dulgeroff, Shaping Educational Environments
Imagine transforming a childhood wonder for Legos into orchestrating major school revitalization projects—that's the journey Lee Dulgeroff, Senior Executive Director for Facilities Planning and Construction at San Diego Unified School District, shares with us. Lee's path from tinkering with building blocks to leading immense educational infrastructure initiatives is as remarkable as it is inspiring. Join us as we unpack the dedication it takes to turn nostalgic play into the kind of professional drive that levels the societal playing field through education.
Welcome to the Superintendent's Hangout, where we discuss topics in education, charter schools, life in general, and not necessarily in that order. I'm your host, dr Sharetta. Come on in and hang out. In this episode I was privileged to sit down with Lee Dolgoroff. Lee is Senior Executive Director for Facilities Planning and Construction at San Diego Unified School District, where he's been for approximately 20 years in positions related to that work. Lee and I have worked together for the past nearly 10 years on a very unique collaboration between school district and charter schools here in San Diego around voter-approved facilities bonds.
Speaker 1:Lee and I cover a range of topics, from how enthusiastic he was as a young child and how interested he was in math and science and Legos and erector sets. How that then played forward into his education when he attended San Diego State University and then on into the start of a career where originally he had not planned to work at all in education or school districts, but the very fortuitous events in his life that brought him into this realm. And then how enthusiastic he is every day to get up and go to work, the support systems in his life, how he manages his time, his interests and much more. It was a distinct pleasure to speak with Lee. He is deeply knowledgeable, not only about his particular work area of responsibility, but many, many facets of life. He is indeed a Renaissance man. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did having this conversation.
Speaker 1:Welcome, lee. Thank you for taking a little bit of time out of your busy schedule this afternoon to chat. It's good to be here. Thanks. I was wondering if you could start with your personal and professional origin story. Where you come from. You know what your start in life was like and how those threads have led forward to where you are today, both personally and professionally.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well, not too exciting. I consider myself almost a native born San Diego and I was born in near Phoenix, arizona but we moved Diego and I was born in near Phoenix, arizona but we moved here when I was two. So I've pretty much spent my whole life in and around all parts of San Diego. Um, we, we kind of I kind of grew up in Claremont area and then, uh, we moved to Cardiff and I've lived in Poway, lived near, uh, bay Park. I've been all, all, all parts of San Diego. So I was, you know, just kind of a typical kid, I think, growing up going to school in San Diego, my, but you know, things changed. My parents got divorced when I was 11. So we kind of ran into some hard times financially. So I kind of, you know, I'd say I grew up like sort of lower middle class, you know not poor, but you know we had some struggles here and there I ended up, we ended up with my mom, moved to Poway, grew, you know, went to Poway high school, pretty much worked my way through high school and college. Um, uh, when I was 16, I was washing dishes and bussing tables and I think, uh, some of those experiences kind of led me to be the person I am today, you know, in terms of you know, having to, you know, kind of work hard and struggle early on and um, and then uh, work hard and struggle early on and um, and then uh went to san diego state.
Speaker 2:I always kind of uh, let's see, I always was really, um, kind of a mechanical type person. You know, I used to play with legos and, uh, I had one of those erector sets and steel. You know, I did a lot of that kind of stuff in uh and as a young kid, even as a little kid, I played with blocks and things Somehow I'd like really get spatial skills. I don't know, it was just something that attracted me.
Speaker 2:I was, you know, I also did a lot of other things, but um, rode dirt bikes and things like that, but, um, but in high school, I think middle school, I, I, there was a summer school class that I was signed up for. It was called computer programming class and so I started programming when I was a sixth or seventh grader, I think, one of those summers. I want to say that between my sixth and seventh grade year learned a code and I got kind of interested in sort of coding mechanical things, and I think that's what got me thinking I would be an engineer or a designer of some kind, you know and and coding looked very different back then from what it is today, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, uh, we were using, um, we had, uh, let's see, an apple 2e computer. That was the one of the, and we had a, a RadioShack TRS-80. Those are the other. Those are the two computers that our class used for, and it was, we were programming in BASIC. Everything was on little floppy disks. So the memories you know, not near, not nearly a memory, monochrome monitors, it wasn't. It wasn't any object oriented programming. Graphics were very minimalist, command-line interfaced. These were days of Pong and really rudimentary games Space.
Speaker 2:Invaders, Space Invaders, yeah, All that. Yeah, just really simple graphics. Simple. I had a Commodore 64, and that was like 64 kilobytes of memory that was cutting edge right that was.
Speaker 2:That was like that was really hot stuff back then. I mean, that was having that, you know, and you could do a color. You know it was just monochrome. So that was like really cool, you color, um. So I started doing that.
Speaker 2:I was really good in math and science in high school. I was decent in English too and I knew I wanted to be an engineer at that point. So I was like looking at different schools I got accepted on the East Coast, like Boston College and UCSD and San Diego State, but I wanted to be like a hands-on engineer and I also didn't at the time. I didn't want my parents to. My mom was willing to pay for college or help me pay for college, but it was. It was a lot of money to go to the East coast. So I ended up um. I really was interested in aerospace engineering. So I focused on that um and computer science. I was kind of a double major. And then I thought I think my goal at the time was sort of like try to make the world a better place by inventing or creating things that would make the world a better place. At the time Didn't know what I. That was kind of my sort of a life goal.
Speaker 1:What can I invent that will make life easier for people, type thing? Did you have any role models in that regard in the invention or seeing that around you?
Speaker 2:Well, I had some mentors. Yeah, definitely, I had some mentors. In college I got an internship with a guy whose name was Dr Gordon Martin. With a guy whose name was Dr Gordon Martin, he had a PhD in electrical engineering, physics and mathematics, so he had three PhDs. He was like a really brilliant scientist. And then I also had some other mentors.
Speaker 2:I worked with some other scientific uh, science, scientific research people doing different things, but, um, that, that internship, um, and learning about how he approached science, um, and there are, there are just some people that I met that could see further, you know, then you just, and of course, I was just, you know, sort of a young undergrad student, didn't really, but I had the, the knowledge to understand and appreciate what they were doing.
Speaker 2:Anyway, um, I had a fun time at san diego state, got, uh, I think, uh worked, worked all through school, waited tables and working in the restaurants, you know, um, and it helped me a lot, I, I think, with my people skills. I mean, it developed a lot of people, interpersonal skills, met thousands of customers, some happy, some sad, some good, some bad, and that played into my professional career, because I think it's you need to have good communication skills and it helps to have the technical skills and the communication skills together. You know some people have one or the other, some people have to work harder. You know one or the other, but I think that was that was important, um, an important ingredient in and then um finished. Uh, let's see. Um I, after graduating um, I decided to. I started working as a defense contractor doing different kinds of interesting projects, um for the government, various agencies, things we can't talk about in detail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there were some things that I can't say too much. But I think let's see one of the projects.
Speaker 2:I can tell you that we built a factory, designed and built a factory to disassemble napalm bombs that were left over from vietnam wow you know it was like really interesting because you, you had to disassemble them and recycle everything you know, and it was out in the it's, out at fallbrook there were some, and you know, different parts. All I've traveled all around the southwest doing different types of projects, but that was a good, good experience for me. I started building, not just doing technical design side of engineering but also the customer, you know, sort of being more of a project manager and working with the military customers and working with people. Um, they started getting me more involved in on the you know sort of the people side of the of of our business. And then eventually I got to be a manage a small department, I guess you know, in a.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, one day one of my former bosses called me up and said, uh, hey, you know I need your help. I've got this, I'm working for this school district and we're trying to we have this capital program to like sort of rebuild schools and you know I really need your help because we're way behind schedule and we just need somebody. And of course, at the time I said, well, you know what kind of work I do. I I don't, I don't really have a lot of experience in in uh with rebuilding schools. I built, built aircraft, hangers and all kinds of things like that, but I didn't really know anything about schools.
Speaker 2:And uh, he said, no, no, you're going to be perfect for this, you, we need you really bad for this, you, we need you really bad we're. You know, I need need some good people. So and I said I was kind of you know, declined and I tried to be a nice. He was very persistent and uh, which, which is another key to success, is persistence. And so, um, I uh he said, well, just come over and check it out, Just come check it out, you know, just try it out. And okay, so I came over and looked at what they were doing. I still was kind of skeptical about whether I fit in that uh program and but I thought I decided to give it a try you know, cause he was really a good guy.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed working with him in the past and so anyway I I started that path and just fell in love with the mission of um because I've always liked education. You know, in my family we have either teachers or engineers pretty much you know, and so, uh, and so I've always liked education.
Speaker 2:I've always thought of education as being the great equalizer uh, you know, especially public education and also sort of a pillar of a better future for our society, you know, in so many different ways. So, and not being a teacher, I thought, well, what can I do to support education and support a better future? It kind of ties back into sort of you know, how do I build something to make the world a better future? Kind of ties back into sort of you know what, how do I build something to make the world a better place? And and I guess I felt like, you know, when I started to fall in love with the mission, I started feeling like I'm creating these spaces for teaching and learning to, to take place, and you know, and so so now, approximately what year is that that you?
Speaker 2:This was right around 2000,. Right around 2000. I'd been out of college for about a, about a decade, I think. I skipped over the part. I went and got a master's degree in computer information systems. While I was working doing you know sort of defense work and uh, when I went back on a master's degree, really I thought maybe I'd do more of the programming side of things, or you know just, or I was really interested in the you know sort of um, and things were changing a lot at the time. I was really interested in building that. I just investigating that part of you know, I'd done a lot of an engineering. I was really interested in building that. I just, you know, investigating that part of you know I'd done a lot of an engineering. So I thought, well, anyway, but but yeah, right around 2000. And then, yeah. So then I started working at San Diego Unified and and we were able to take that program that was behind schedule. We had a. We were about two years into the program and we were way behind. We were about two years into the program and we were about two years behind almost. We had about a 10-year window to finish all this work and we were able to finish on time and on budget.
Speaker 2:For that first bond program Was that M, that was Prop MM, mm. Yeah, and then I sort of you know, they'd ask me to do different things and I'd just always try to stay flexible and so take on more and more different kinds of responsibilities. And then, I think, one day one of my bosses retired and they asked me to kind of fill in, and I did, and it worked out. And then I became a director here at San Diego Unified and then after that I had another boss retire and they asked me to fill in as the interim lead over this whole organization, and so that worked out and they asked me to sort of be the permanent person, and so I guess the rest is history. So after Prop MM, we passed four other bond measures and $11.6 billion of general obligation bond authorization to revitalize San Diego Unified Schools, and so I've been doing that. People say you know, it's not just about the money, it's more about the mission.
Speaker 2:We have, you know, a lot of aging buildings. I'd say the average age of our building is about 55 years old buildings. I'd say the average age of our buildings about 55 years old. Wow, um, we have 11 point, or, I'm sorry, 15.7 billion, uh, I'm sorry, million square feet of school buildings, 2500 acres of land, so there's spread out all over about 225 sites. So there's this big giant physical plant that's aging all the time. So it's this big dynamic problem.
Speaker 2:So we're trying to renovate um all those school buildings. I mean, you think about um this, the, the old brooklyn elementary school site that einstein is on. You know that's a really aging site. It had, you know, old buildings. They weren't um code compliant anymore in terms of in a lot of areas, you know, the physical plant was just just tired, worn out, had been loved by generations of students for 50 years, and it was time to sort of renovate and revitalize and sometimes even tear down and replace the infrastructure there. And so that's an example, and that was just one of, that's just been one of many, many schools in the district that have, over the years, you know, just worn out and been loved and been used. So right now we're on the track to, you know, sort of rebuild it all.
Speaker 2:But it's not just, I think not just rebuilding, it's, it's also looking at how has education changed, you know, and how are we preparing our students for the 21st century, yeah, and and creating teaching and learning spaces that are that respond to, you know, today's pedagogy, which is a fancy word for how things get taught, how things have you know today's pedagogy, which is a fancy word for how things get taught, how things have you know. So now, we're, you know, 50 years ago we didn't have Chromebooks, we didn't have Wi Fi, we didn't have, you know, our cell phones, we weren't talking about artificial intelligence. We're. You know, there was nothing.
Speaker 2:A lot of the tools, a lot of things that we're doing in education is preparing our students for today and tomorrow. In terms of the physical environment and the infrastructure required to support it are much different than the classic, you know, school building. You know that we had. You know, in the. You know when I went to school and then, of course, even that was that's changed since public education started in the late 1800s, or in California at least. I mean. Other places started earlier than that.
Speaker 1:So you've seen a lot of changes over your career and your life in terms of changes in San Diego as a city and a county Growth, modernization, demographic shifts, organization, demographic shifts. You've seen, obviously seen a unified change demographically and in many ways, you've seen technology change. You went from dial-up or pre-dial-up to where we are today. If you started the district around year 2000, people were carrying the advanced people were carrying Palm Pilots around which were clunky, early versions of a tablet right, a personal tablet, all the way to what we have today. How do you make sure that, on a personal level, you stay abreast of these changes? Because you have a, you lead a big team, an important team. How do you, how do you personally, do this without becoming overwhelmed?
Speaker 2:Well, there's, there's. I think one of the things I enjoy is I like to listen to the news and to podcasts and things. I like to stay. I really am interested in world events. I'm more interested in geography, I'm more interested in trends. So I spend. I mean it's not something I have to try to do or I have to tell myself oh, you got to read this you enjoy it, I just enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really I like to stay engaged, it, I just enjoy it. Yeah, I really I like to stay in, but I like to stay engaged. You know, I, um and I, so I, I just, um, I do a lot of listening and a lot of it's just something. I'm just like a big sponge when it comes to that kind of stuff. So so, um, and I'm, you know, kind of an early adapter in some ways.
Speaker 2:Not, I'm, you know, I'll, you know, to different things. You know, I mean I drive an electric car, you know, for example, I mean, which isn't, I guess a lot of people drive electric cars these days. But but so, you know, there's, you know, and with technology, with computers and phones and things, I, you know, I try to stay on the on the cutting edge of of, and you know it's hard because kids, you know, students these days are are. There's so many different avenues, there's so many different directions. You could be on the cutting edge of, or you could be.
Speaker 2:You know, there's so many different areas, whether it's, you know it, just there's just so many different areas of interest that you could be, you could be. There are people that, like they watch Netflix all the time and they're really up on the latest shows and movies and they watch all you know, all kinds of streaming, and so you talk to them and they know every everything about that. And then there's people that listen to podcasts, there's people that are interested in video games and gaming, and then and then there's and it's not just about technology, it's about you know they're, they're just people that there's so many different ways that you can connect with this world and it's gotten so easy that no one person can be on the edge, you know, involved in everything. But I, like, you know, I listen a lot. I like I enjoy that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting to me to reflect on the fact that, while you were a math and science guy, I mean, that's a bit of a pigeonhole, but you said that those were your areas of strength and interest.
Speaker 1:You're actually in a job where you have to be a Renaissance man, because you have to understand everything from how communities organize and express their pleasure and displeasure all the way to the technical specs on HVAC systems and everything in between. What are your leadership principles that you try to adhere to in leading this, this team, and how? First of all, how many folks report to you?
Speaker 2:Well, it varies all the time, because we have construction sites, construction starting, but roughly like 350, 350.
Speaker 1:So obviously it's impossible to be a micromanager in that, so you have to espouse certain principles that then permeate throughout your area of San Diego Unified. What are those principles that you adhere to in your work?
Speaker 2:Well, I try to communicate well, to guide and influence people towards our mission, towards our goal. I want people to fall in love with the mission like I do, because I think if you're in love with the mission, if you're in love with the mission of education like you are, I'm sure it makes it a lot easier. I always encourage my team even the ones that are sort of central office-based, where maybe they're doing contracts or something like that I always encourage them to get out to the school sites, be there when you see the students in the new facilities and the new buildings. I love to see the kids when we open up a new facility or a new school or something, and that you see them in there in the space and it's like what's changed for them. It helps you continue to be energized and be in love with that mission of education and you realize the role that you play in creating that space, that environment.
Speaker 2:So a lot of it is about communications, guidance, direction. I like to think that we're a big family. I think like creating a family here. That's sort of another thing, another area. So people I mean I've had people that have, like that have left. You know, like the grass might have been greener or they thought it was greener.
Speaker 2:And they come back and they're like oh, there's no place. Like you know, I like that. You know that we're a big team and that we're all but we're all kind of connected. So that's my. I think my leadership style is sort of you know, is you know that is creating that energy, creating that, those connections, creating that big family.
Speaker 1:What do you think has been your greatest professional success to date? And then after that, I'm going to ask you what's been the biggest challenge? So, success, and after that I'm going to ask you what's been the biggest challenge.
Speaker 2:So success. Well, you know, I mean I don't want to name any one school or any one thing, but we've had, I mean we've done some pretty amazing projects that have been received lots of awards. I mean we had one year where we opened five schools, five new schools in one one fall, a high school and middle school and three elementary schools. So I guess, um, it's those big life-changing projects, I think, um, you know, but I'd I'd rather not like preference one school right, because I love them all right and um but um, yeah, those are, are those are.
Speaker 2:those are our biggest successes, I think, and it's not my success really the team it's the team, you know, we, we, you know there are so many people here that do so, that work so hard to it's not no one person can, can, should, should take credit for all of this work.
Speaker 1:So the flip side of that challenges, whether it's for you personally or probably team or, you know, just department-wide challenges, because everything has its challenges, whether being misunderstood around something or Well, you know, I mean, I think people problems are always the hardest problems to solve.
Speaker 2:Technical problems are, you know, they don't talk back. They don't talk back. Yeah, so you know, typically you can solve those technical problems. You know, sometimes it takes time and money to solve a technical problem. But people problems are harder, you know. And so I would say, whether it's people, you know our partners on the outside, you know they're maybe the neighborhood, the neighbors or or you know, helping get everybody coalesced around an idea and making sure that everybody feels good about a project.
Speaker 2:Most, most of the time we build, you know, when we're starting a project, there's fear. Sometimes there's fear, there's fear of change, there's fear of the unknown, if you will, and so it's overcoming that fear, overcoming, sometimes, objections, but usually when we finish a project, everybody comes back and says, wow, you know that that worked out really well. I never thought it would turn out this. I mean we, we get a lot of, a lot of compliments, a lot of support. Rarely ever does somebody say, oh, you know, I didn't expect this and it turned out to be, you know, a negative for me. I mean, we do take, I mean, we're not perfect, we, we don't that things don't always work out perfectly, but for the most part it's those people challenges that are the toughest you know. I would say, of all the you know, that's that's the biggest you know, and it's, it's just, and that's where it comes back to communication and empathy and flexibility.
Speaker 2:I think.
Speaker 1:And I'd imagine there's a side to your work, obviously in conjunction with others, but there's a political side to your work. Obviously, voter-approved bond propositions require support from voters and there's a messaging piece and there's inevitably going to be people who understand and who don't understand. You know what what things stand for, um, and also what it means to have funds for facilities that are separate from perhaps what happens, uh, statewide in our, in our, budget times. Right, we know those are the realities of all of our work. Can you talk a little bit about how you navigate through those? So right now we're headed into a bit of a tricky budget time statewide. Anybody who follows education knows that that's the case. In California, we have kind of a boom and bust model at the state level for funding schools funding schools but yet the construction sources of monies that you're managing are going to are on a trajectory that is not so impacted by that. Can you talk about how you navigate through that and also how you message that to the community?
Speaker 2:Well. So I mean starting out with the sort of the capital facility side. So you know, as a, as a district employee, my job is not to be, not to necessarily weigh in on a on political issues for or against. So we, when we are, when we do have a bond measure, we put together a bond measure on the bat and the board decides to put it on the ballot. It's, it's, it's staff's responsibility to educate vote to answer questions and educate voters.
Speaker 2:So we're not, you know, trying to convince people to do one thing or another um with their, with their ballot. We're more trying to educate them on. This is what it will cost, but these are the benefits. This is what, or this is what happens if it passes. This is what happens if it doesn't pass right and and one.
Speaker 2:So one thing that I always try to help everyone understand is operating a big physical plant is, you know, there's always going to be, there's always a amount of wear and tear. So, on buildings and things, and if you don't, if you don't maintain your buildings, if you don't replace them when they start to wear out, if you don't maintain your buildings, if you don't replace them when they start to wear out, if you don't replace a roof, for example, then you have dry rot and your damage grows exponentially. So not maintaining a building is actually more expensive than maintaining a building, because you end up losing the entire asset and you have to rebuild it from scratch. It's better to maintain it and renovate it when it needs to be renovated from a practical standpoint. Now, if you just don't want to operate buildings at all, that's another choice. So that would mean eliminating the school itself, I mean not using the school. But if you're going to operate an educational system that requires buildings and shelter and technology and all the aspects of the infrastructure, then you need to maintain it and it's actually less expensive. It's better proposition to the taxpayer, to the citizen, to invest in and maintain and operate those buildings correctly. It also pays dividends. So if you think about giving teachers a better place to teach in and students a better place to learn, I think that indoor air quality, natural light, thermal comfort all lead to better educational outcomes, which ultimately lead to a better society. When you think about and so there's a big payoff in investing in people in education, because so those are the kinds of things you can that that I try to share with people.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, you know there's a cost to it. Sometimes it's it's uh, we try not to overburden the taxpayer. A lot of times we're extending the existing tax rate, not necessarily increasing your taxes. So if your tax you're happy with your taxes, all it does is simply extend it. But there is a cost, um, a societal cost, to that um but um, the. I think the benefits outweigh the cost and and and. But that's I, it's not, I'm not, but I'm typically not making an argument.
Speaker 2:But in terms of the, yeah, there's certainly a political aspect to the work. In terms of education, you're absolutely right that the operational budget for education program it is sort of ebbs and flows depending on the economic cycle that we're in and the capital facilities needs. It's pretty much a steady state need, that sort of ties into how many buildings that you're maintaining and what type of systems are you maintaining, so that need and that cost never goes away. So we use capital funds and bonds to finance the renovation of those things, which makes better sense as a citizen, a more stable system of funding education. So it wasn't. We didn't have boom and bust cycles like we do. I know that they try to establish rainy day funds and things like that on a state government level. I wish the federal government would fund their underfunded mandates.
Speaker 2:I think the federal government should play a role. If they're going to create mandates or requirements to local schools, then those mandates ought to be funded and not just passed down. And the federal government does provide a lot of money, but not enough. And at the state level certainly. Um, I don't think you know. If you think about what it would take to get a high quality private education, there's a big gap between what a high, probably high quality private uh, privately funded education costs on a per you know, annual basis, that and then what the state spends on a per student. Now I'm not saying that we need to spend two X or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But? But I do think that every child deserves an equitable amount of support, depending on their needs.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to reflect on the fact that. You know, obviously we're right now and the governor came out with his may revise. It was a strange may revise in the sense that, um, there was some kind of non-committal talk about cola and those kinds of things, but that there are. There's a very, very small group of uber wealthy californians, less than 200 000000 out of 38 or 40 million. I'm not sure how many of those are taxpayers, but it's a. It's a rounding error. Population wise, who's who drive the state budget Right?
Speaker 1:And we know that during COVID, especially with interest rates where they were, that those those folks were were doing so well and we had a massive windfall right. The state level on colas were double digit. And then now we're. We may not even hit a 1% cola right. There's talk between three quarters of a percent and 1.06 or something. So it's just to me, you know, if we were to watch this from the outside, even a kindergartner could tell us that's not a really good way to plan something as important as funding education with these wild swings from one year to the next. So I guess we're fortunate that the voters have seen that vision to support educational facilities in San Diego over the long term. Can you talk in that regard a bit about the partnership between San Diego Unified traditional district schools and the charters that are authorized by the district and how that's very unique in the state and I think even nationally, with respect to these bond programs?
Speaker 2:Yeah so no, that's a great question. I mean, I feel like all of our students deserve an equitable support. I mean, if your child's in a newer school, maybe the school doesn't need as much help in terms of its facilities and its infrastructure. If your child's in a newer school, maybe the school doesn't need as much help in terms of its facilities and its infrastructure. If your child's in an older school, that's worn out and needs more. It really depends on and it also depends on the pedagogy and what's happening at that school how we best support it.
Speaker 2:Charter schools are no different. So in Proposition S we actually named the charter schools. In Proposition S we actually named the charter schools, we named each charter school and we had a project similar to what we do with a traditional public school. And you know, for those charter schools that are located on district property, I mean there are some charter schools that operate out of privately owned facilities and or storefronts or different types of spaces, or storefronts or different types of spaces, and when it's a private facility, obviously public dollars aren't allowed to be spent to improve private property. But most of our charter schools are on district-owned or public-owned property and so we had included those in our ballot measure and named them by name.
Speaker 2:When we started Proposition Z, we had some conversations with the charter school community and we talked about a different approach. We talked about sort of a pro rata allocation of resources to the charter schools, and so we incorporated it slightly differently. And so we incorporated it slightly differently. Also, we talked about creating a sort of a governance group or some kind of a steering committee, if you will, to kind of from them and sort of you know um, on how to best pursue, because each charter school is unique in its nature, has a unique mission, just like a lot of our traditional public schools are. And so, um, this charter school facilities committee was formed to help us, you know sort of um, uh, you know, look at the needs, address the needs and sort of provide guidance on the projects that would help renovate and revitalize their facilities at the charter schools. So that started with Proposition Z and then it carried on through the next two ballot measures with YY and U, and so it's been a very successful model.
Speaker 2:It's a very unique model and so, projects, what the district does is we look to the charter schools themselves to tell us what they need, schools themselves to tell us what they need. Those needs come in the form of projects to the committee. The committee then, or project proposals, if you will, and the committee sort of reviews them, validates them and the committee's made up of charter school leaders that are experienced leaders and then and staff also. You know our facility staff sort of also helps facilitate that and then ultimately we take those projects to the board. The board approves the projects and then we begin to develop those projects and we've been, we've had a lot of really amazing successful projects through that process and it's I think it adds, it helps us.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot listening to that committee, being a part of that. You know I don't sit on that committee but I help facilitate it, but it just being in the room with all those educational leaders, there's just a lot of experience around the table and I learned a lot about education through osmosis in that, in those meetings and I and it, and I think it's really a great process. It is very unique for us, probably across the state. It certainly might be a model for others to look at and see if it fits their needs too.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think and I've been in charters a long time, I think this is year 30. So I'm almost, my career is almost as old as the charter law in California. And you know, in many parts of the state and it may be this way in other states as well the relationship between authorizer and charter can become fraught with, at times, conflict, or can be antagonistic. And I think what has been so inspiring in my experience in San Diego has been that not only a bond partnership but also partnership with the charter school office. Unfailingly while there's no way we're never going to have disagreements, but unfailingly there's a recasting to focus on the needs of kids. And when I tell people at charter school conferences how, for example, in my case, albert Einstein has benefited, our students have benefited, our families have benefited from facilities, I get strange looks from charter school leaders who are not in San Diego. They're trying to find ways to finance facilities and oftentimes they're paying 20 and 30 cents on the dollar, every dollar revenue, 20, 30 cents. I mean, imagine if you did that in your home mortgage, you, you don't have much room right in your budget, and so that's just a beautiful thing. And I'm not pandering just because because, uh, you know you and I are talking here I say it very often that, um, it's been the real privilege of my professional career I always say I'm kind of in the seventh or eighth inning of it right now to be able to participate in the in the csfc and to see what's happening all over.
Speaker 1:Uh, with with partnerships. I started my teaching career at the harriet tubman school and I remember, for example that's just one I drive by there sometimes and there's a shared use field with the city that for my whole time there was decomposed granite. It was like the Kalahari out there hot days, east County, and now it's a turf field and they're getting a lot of projects done there and all over the county. I think we don't celebrate that enough. Uh, that partnership, yeah yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm glad that, um, it's been a good experience from your perspective, because that's really our goal. Our goal is for the to to not be a burden on the charter leaders you, you know and to to support them, because you've got a busy enough it's hard enough to run a school I do the same thing with traditional principals Um, and also that we create supportive environments that are, you know, and and we are, you know, transforming, like, like that decomposed granite field at Harriet Tubman and the, the facilities there. I mean, um, yeah, those kids and they're amazing kids and I'm glad we were able to make that change and make those improvements in their lives and those teachers and those families that we've impacted positively.
Speaker 1:Shifting gears a little bit. What goals do you have, professionally, let's say, over the next 10 years? I know you're not the goal setter in the sky, right, but when you sit around and you envision where your work is going to be in 10 years and then where your life personally is going to be in 10 years, what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Well, I want to leave all the schools at San Diego Unified all the traditional schools, all the charter schools in a state of good repair and in good condition and I want them all to be places where kids can learn effectively, where they can grow, and places that facilitate the direction that they want to go in terms of their lives and their educational careers and support that for the next generation. So I want us to get back to a state of good repair everywhere we are getting there. We're we've done a lot and we've been doing a lot of work with school safety in terms of physical safety for kids, because the world's a different place than when we were kids. We, you know, we used to have open campuses and we kids walk to school. Now, every child's or children are getting dropped off at school. You know, we don't have. Our campuses are fully fenced. It's a different world in terms of safety, in terms of technology.
Speaker 2:We talked about that yeah and how much that has changed. Um, in terms of younger supporting younger, we're now supporting four-year-olds, so I want to be able to give all those four-year-olds. We have pretty much added another grade in the state of California, so now we have a universal transitional kindergarten. Air conditioning Air conditioning yes, the world's gotten hotter. We're more sustainable. I don't think we even touched on that.
Speaker 2:We're trying to get to net zero so that we at least do not contribute negatively to the carbon footprint of this planet in terms of operating our schools. So, you know, creating solar systems and electric vehicle chargers and all the infrastructure that will help make this a cleaner planet, you know, at least doing our share, our part that'll help make this a cleaner planet, at least doing our share, our part. So my professional goal is to take us to that point where we're in a state of good repair, we're in a good place. I want to be able to pass on the physical plan of this district and hand it off in a much better state than when I arrived here. Not much had been done since those schools here when we were, when you know, not much had been done since those schools were built for the baby boom generation. And so that's sort of my big picture goal, sort of big in terms of, you know, completing the mission and putting us in a better place.
Speaker 1:What do you do outside of work to keep the energy up? I mean, I see you in meetings and you've got two cell phones going at all times and we're in a meeting and then your assistant comes in and taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, lee, and then you have a busy life. You have a lot of spinning platters. What do you do just to recharge?
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I do like a lot of times when I, when I, when the day is done, um, I go, go home. I've got a very supportive a wife and two kids. Um, my daughter's already out of the house, but and and I have, I'm a grandfather now wow, congratulations.
Speaker 1:So so, uh, that'll reset your priorities right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my daughter's married two years ago and now I'm a grandpa, but so that helps, keeps me young, you know, and I love to see. There's nothing like seeing a child discover the world through a child's eyes, the things that we take for granted, that the new discovery that there is in that, in that era, in that age. So, what I often do, we'll go and take a walk on the beach. I like to like to go. We don't live near the beach, but we but I, I often we'll, we'll, we'll, I'll come home.
Speaker 2:If I get home in a decent hour, I love to, especially when the days are longer, like right now, and there's low tide and you go, take a walk on the beach, go grab a bite afterwards. That's a weekday. I like to ski, I like to travel, I like to work, though my dad said my grandfather was addicted to work. He was know my. My dad said, um, my grandfather was, like, addicted to work. He was always working, didn't have many hobbies. I do like to work and I do. I don't mind working on the weekends Like I do. Um, it drives my wife crazy sometimes. But even when I'm on vacation, sometimes I'm answering emails and stuff, but I do, I do enjoy it.
Speaker 2:If I, if you fall in love with the mission, then it's not really work. You know, um for me and so I don't mind. Um, you know, I don't mind, it's not like a burden, it just it's. Sometimes I I'd rather be caught up and stay um, stay engaged in in the projects. The more it takes a lot of energy you, in order to make these projects run smoothly, you have to stay involved and understand every one of them. That's the other thing.
Speaker 2:But I do have some, you know I enjoy that kind of stuff. I used to golf but I messed up my back so I don't golf as much as I do. I don't golf at all lately, but um, but skiing and walking and just hanging out with family and traveling, stuff like that. So you know I like nature, you know. So I really admire nature and I also like different cultures, like you know, the. It's interesting to see life through the lens of different cultures, like how they see life. We have our American view of the world, but looking through the eyes of how life looks through other lenses is kind of interesting, because life is such an interesting thing and how you look at it our existence, you know so anyway.
Speaker 1:What would your current self tell your 21-year-old self? I guess I chose 21 because that was approximate college graduation age. What would your current self tell your 21-year-old Lee about what lies ahead? What advice would you give him?
Speaker 2:Oh, what advice would I give myself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like if you could go back and you saw yourself, you know stay flexible, um, you know, continue to work hard.
Speaker 2:At the time I was already working really hard, so I did but staying flexible and and staying and um not, you know, I think at that space in life you have an idea of what. You have a dream, you have an idea of where you want. You think you want to go exactly, and you and we're not always in control of that dream, you know so, you and you just don't know so. So, just to stay open to um the opportunities that are ahead, that lie ahead, um and um, and to um to be humble.
Speaker 2:I think think I don't know if I was that humble at that stage in my life. You know, you know, um uh, to be humble, to be collaborative with other people. I think, um, uh to you know, to really like, make, admire or or understand the worth of everyone else, the, the value that everyone else we are this big society with lots of different roles and everyone's important, regardless of what you do or how you do it, uh. But but I think that flexibility, um is key because, um, a lot of people get out of college and I was probably no different than that they think, oh, I've got this roadmap, I know exactly where I'm going.
Speaker 2:And and then life takes you in a different direction.
Speaker 1:Then someone calls you up and says, hey, I got this school district thing and you're like I'm not interested, Just come check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah exactly, and that, and and here I am. You know, and, and who to know, who to thought? You know, if I, if I, you never would have guessed, never in a million years would have guessed where, where I'd be going, you know, I, I just wouldn't have ever thought that this is where I belonged. But I do belong here and I do love the mission. So it's just interesting how I got there, how it all happened.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that there are a lot of people who I ask that question to and as they recount their life's journey, they talk about the small, at the time fairly insignificant. There's no way you would have known that was going to be a left turn off the freeway when you thought you were going right. But it changed the rest of your life for the better. And oftentimes we have these experiences right when. I remember I had a summer job in college and I was $2.50 an hour in 1991. And I remember I mean because there were no jobs, but I got cash under the table and I remember one day I was up on the ladder and the woman who I was working for said what are you going to do after college?
Speaker 1:I said I think I'm going to go to law school. And she said what do you mean, you think? And I said, yeah, you know, whatever, I'm going to go to law school. She said, hold on. And she went into the house, came out and handed me a flyer, and it was a flyer for a fellowship and I ended up applying for it. Getting the fellowship, went abroad for a year and a half and it completely changed my whole career and life trajectory. Had I thrown that thing out, not paid attention to this woman, uh, I I mean, I don't know, my life might have turned out fine and good and but it would have been different that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Where did you go?
Speaker 1:I spent a year and a half in central america and southern mexico researching um the experience of what it's what, at the time, was like to be a refugee. So this grant through the thomas j watson foundation, which is the founding family of ibm, the watson, oh, wow, yeah, um, it gave me the financial, uh underwriting to be able to do that. I otherwise would never been able to have that luxury. So I essentially took a gap year after college before starting a career. But it and it shifted shifted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it shifted the career and learned, learned to speak spanish at different perspective on the world, um different perspective on the united states. It probably had a big role to play in in where I ended up living in the United States, because I'm originally from the East Coast, I ended up in San Diego. I wanted to be near an international border. So a lot of pieces right. We don't at the time see it, I'm sweating up on a ladder, I was painting, or something. And she goes here's a flyer. You know, boom shifts.
Speaker 2:It shifts, just one little one, little, one little thing. Yeah, yeah. Now it is all these little forks in the road and you don't know. You never know when they're coming at you or to you. Know to you and, and which direction you're going to take and what that fork will take you to. Yeah, yeah, and, and I mean you just have to be open to that, and and and you know. So, yeah, it's amazing to think what that happened in your work.
Speaker 1:So, let's say, you're finishing a big school construction project and you just installed a marquee out in front and Lee Dalgeroff gets to create a message to the world about what he believes, what he thinks is important in life. I normally ask people what they would create for a billboard on the side of the freeway, but I'm trying to make this school related. So, you have your big marquee. What does your marquee say to the world, about your message, about what you find to be important in this life?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm thinking about right now. We have so much going on in the world, with the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza, you know, and just, there's always seems to be wars and tragedies and genocides and all kinds of strife. I mean, I guess to me, and even locally, there's still, there's tension all the time, different. You know, I think, um, my message to the world is to be kind to each other, be, be empathetic, be kind, um, try to understand the other person. Um, because so, if I had to give a message to someone, it's like be, you know, have some compassion, because I think that's what the world needs more of right now, considering what's going on, and throughout history we've seen that.
Speaker 1:So, if anything, that would be my message. I think that's an apropos place to finish the conversation Be kind, be empathetic. I've always been impressed in working with you about the degree to which you go to listen and to pay attention, even though I know you're very busy, but every question I've ever had you take the time to answer, and so I think that kindness comes through and I really appreciate that, and thank you for your time today. Thank you, david, that was great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Superintendent's Hangout. You can follow me on Twitter at DVS1970. Please be sure to share this show with friends and family on social media and in the real world. Thank you to Brad Backeau for editing and production assistance and to Tina Royster for scheduling and logistics. Thanks for hanging out and have a great day.