The Hangout with David Sciarretta
Conversations with interesting people.
The Hangout with David Sciarretta
#105 Servant Leadership: Eric Hale's Journey From Adversity to Achievement
What does it take to transform a school into a thriving community where students from 40+ countries speaking 30+ languages succeed together? For Eric Hale, Kentucky's 2024 Principal of the Year, the answer begins with his own remarkable journey.
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Welcome to the Hangout Podcast. I'm your host, David Shoretta. Come on in and hang out. In this episode, I was privileged to have a conversation with Eric Hale, principal of Bryan Station High School in Lexington, Kentucky. Mr Hale was named the 2024 Kentucky Principal of the Year by the Kentucky Association of School Administrators. He shared his unique and inspiring personal and family journey. He is the first in his family to graduate from high school and he has a unique perspective on the trials and tribulations that the students at Bryan Station High School face, as well as some real, deep knowledge and insight into what it means to be a servant leader. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Mr Hale, thank you so much for joining us today for this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I thought a good place for us to start is with your origin story. In doing some background reading, you have a really compelling story and trajectory that brings you to this present moment. Could you share that with our listeners, please?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, first and foremost, very proud son of a single mom. So growing up it was my mother. I have a half brother and sister that are 12 to 15 years older than I am, so it was essentially almost like a single mom. So my mom was almost two different moms to my brother and sister, as she was to me because of the age gap. We grew up in Ashland, kentucky, in Section 8 housing, locally known as the projects there in Ashland. My mom was a high school dropout. My brother and my sister were both high school dropouts, so I was the first person in my family to graduate, a high school dropout. My brother and my sister were both high school dropouts, so I was the first person in my family to graduate from high school. In addition to that, we were very transient, so we moved out of the projects when I was around 14 years old and then over the course of the next four years, we moved approximately around 11 or 12 more times. So my mom went back and was able to earn her GED and she became a certified nursing assistant and nurse aide here in the state of Kentucky and so, with that being said, she was able to earn more money beyond the welfare checks and the food stamps that we were receiving when I was a kid. However, one of the unwritten situations with getting out of Section 8 housing of the projects is the cost of utilities, so we would have to move to multiple places once the utility bills would get to a point where we were unable to afford them. I only see my father four times in my life as a kid, and so that had a significant impact on me and my lens, as you know, growing up as an adolescent and having my mom just being essentially the main person that was there for me. Additionally, my mom was in some abusive relationships. When I was a kid. There was a kid. There was a couple of situations you know that I experienced firsthand that were very unfortunate, that as a teenager and as a child probably shouldn't be exposed to. However, you know we were able to get through those things together and it definitely shaped my lens and me wanting to give back at some point in time and to those that gave to me, and those were my educators, those were my teachers, my guidance counselor my high school guidance counselor played an integral part in my life.
Speaker 2:I went to three different high schools. My freshman GPA was almost a 1.0. I wasn't making the best of decisions at the time Went to two different high schools. My freshman year Moved again as a sophomore. My mom found a trailer in a school community of Westwood where I was able to attend a very small community high school called Fairview High School and from there I developed really long lasting relationships with my teachers, my coaches and also, like I said, my guidance counselor. His name was Brent Creech. I actually named my son after him. I have a six-year-old son that I've named after him and that's what kind of an impact he had on me so went from there to conditionally be accepted into Morehead State University in Eastern Kentucky.
Speaker 2:I'd never visited campus before I arrived and thankfully I had created some good habits when initially, as a teenager, my habits weren't great and I was able to be successful and I was determined to better myself and if one day I had children which I have three beautiful children of my own and also one bonus son that I wanted to give them an opportunity to financially be in a better situation than what I was in as a child and an adolescent. So those are my origins. That's who I am, unapologetically, and it's a unique situation to be in as a principal and then as an educator, that I've been the student that slept in class. I was the student that was suspended, unsupervised teenager when my mom was working evening shifts and I was making decisions that weren't the best for me. And I've also been the student that was straight A's my senior year, very driven, wanting to be successful and wanted to have a better life for myself and make a positive impact on those around me and also the next generations to come, through being an educator.
Speaker 2:At Moorhead State University I earned a degree in elementary education. Additionally, I coached multiple sports. I was able to teach at Fairview Elementary School in Westwood my alma mater and give back to the community. That gave a lot to me and then from there I was able to earn my educational leadership degrees from Moorhead State University and I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity at a fairly young age. I think I was around 26, 27 years old when I first became a school administrator and really 16 years into it now. I'm just so thankful for the opportunities and experiences that I've been able to go through in life, and not just personally. I'm thankful for those situations and I'm also thankful for the opportunities and situations that I've been able to get while being an educator, initially in Ashland, kentucky, in Westwood, and then now in Lexington, kentucky, at a very large comprehensive high school, bryan Station High School, here in Lexington.
Speaker 1:As you share that story I keep flashing on you impersonate Maslow's hierarchy hierarchy, like I see you kind of clawing your way up that right from the. I mean it's what a what a compelling story of moving just ahead of the utilities bills and then at a certain point you start connecting with educators and it sounds like you had a very loving mom so you have that love piece, but then some of the just existential daily needs are missing, and so what a compelling kind of background to bring into education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm very thankful and you are correct in saying I had a loving mother who did the best that she could with what skills she was equipped with. And one of the messages that I try and share with teachers that work with me or staff you know, the educators that, the wonderful educators that have surrounded me my entire adult career is parents are doing the best they can.
Speaker 1:They really are.
Speaker 2:Many parents are going through their own trauma. They're trying to survive life and we have to be mindful of that when they are sending us their most prized possessions, that parents are doing their best. They're doing their best in that moment and with the capacity that they have in those moments. So we need to make sure that when they send their kids to us, that their kids are loved for, they are cared about and we're also holding them to a standard of what success looks like, without lowering the expectations of how to get there and making sure that they know that we will support them in that journey and that you can send your kids to us and we're going to love them like our own. But we're also going to make sure that we hold them to the standard necessary so they can become successful adults and positive contributors in our community and in our society.
Speaker 1:How does someone at such a young age become an influential educational leader? You've been around education now a long time and I have too and we know that there's a hierarchy and there's a time in the trenches. Calculus that happens whether people tell you about it or not. People are watching and seeing and people have to kind of put in their time. At age 26, you were already into administration. How have you been able to kind of shepherd that? And then again, congratulations on being named the 2024 Kentucky Principal of the Year. If I think that I got that right and I know you're not aiming at awards I saw you gave credit to all of your community in that award. But how have you been able to accomplish these things at such a young age? In an industry that I'd imagine you've got, you're a principal at 26. You probably had teachers who are older than I am. They could have been your dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to be quite frank, you know I've asked those same questions, you know, and why me, honestly? But then it became why not? And it became. You know, I've always considered myself an old soul and although the age number is there, but I had to be an adult at a very young age. I was, I was the man of the house at eight and nine years old, which is just a very, very interesting concept. But I have had to mature very fast, even when making immature decisions as a teenager and doing the things that I knew I didn't need to be doing. But I had to grow and mature quick to be doing. But I had to grow and mature quick If I wanted to make a difference with my life and continue to pay it back. I had to change my habits and I had to change them exponentially.
Speaker 2:But what's been a very beneficial characteristic for me is building authentic relationships, first with the students that I serve and then, simultaneously, with the families of those students, where I will ask the question, as the principal, to my staff how many of us have grown up in single parent homes? Oftentimes I may be the only one that has my hand raised. I'm very transparent with my story. There was never a moment in time where I felt sorry for myself or that I needed people to feel sorry for me and my situation. But I think it's critically important that we have to be our authentic selves with our kids, that we serve our families and our staffs. And one thing that I take a lot of pride in is being who I am and not being ashamed of decisions that I had made as a kid. Not being ashamed of heating my house with the oven open in the wintertime as a 17-year-old right. Those aren't things to be ashamed of. Those are things that give perspective through experiences that then you find a way to connect with kids that you're serving. You try to find a way to connect with the families that are trusting you with their kids.
Speaker 2:It's it's, you know it's, regardless of of who you are, where you come from. That's what people want and, quite frankly, through the years of experience that I have in this position, that's what people want to hang on to and they connect with you and they know that you are being who you are and you're not coming from a place of judgment. I'm not, I don't come. It's not my role to judge families or kids or situations. It's my role to try to provide supports and expectations, to try to help our kids get the experiences and exposures necessary to give them the opportunities to be successful, because we're not saviors.
Speaker 2:I'm not a savior and oftentimes in education we will get that mentality that we feel like we have to save and we don't have that kind of power. But you know what we are we are influencers, we are very much mentors, we are the adults that oftentimes others look up to and we should be, because we're in the greatest profession on the planet and so. But realizing that even at a young age I could develop authentic relationships and connect with people was something that, looking back now on my experiences and especially being a leader at a young age in a leadership position, those are things that have helped me along the way and thankfully I've been consistently with who I am and people have seen that, and so I'm very much. What you see is what you get, but also love and care about you and it's not conditional, it's very unconditional.
Speaker 1:Do you remember the moment at which you got the proverbial campus keys? Yeah, what was that like.
Speaker 2:Just overwhelming when you're talking about somebody gives you the keys to the ship, right? So they're giving you the keys to this ship, and it's two different situations. So the first experience I had, I was very familiar with the community. I was very familiar with the students and the kids and the staff because I worked within the really tough situation in October of 2020, or, I'm sorry, october of 2013,. That afforded me great opportunities to do some amazing things with the staff at the school to help improve student outcomes.
Speaker 2:Fast forward 2020,. I go from a very small community school to the second largest school system in the state of Kentucky, in an urban setting on the north end of Lexington, at Bryan Station High School beautifully diverse 2,000 student population, 40-some countries, 30-some languages represented and just a very proud community that has been underserved and just needs to be heard and listened to and then continue to provide opportunities for their kids, right. So the approach here was a little different because I don't look like a lot of the kids in my school. I don't sound like a lot of the kids in my school, but I connect with all of our kids in the school in some way. I try to find ways to connect and try to provide those opportunities for them. So getting the keys to this beautiful place was a little overwhelming at first, because we also were in the middle of a pandemic and so I went eight months without seeing kids in my school and, quite frankly, many of my staff members.
Speaker 2:So I had to figure out where we were with things. Where were we in our systems and structures and processes. Where were we with our staff capacity and understanding systems, structures and processes, and what was our focus? What were we collectively committed to beyond surviving during the pandemic? A little processing to figure out where we needed to go and then, quite frankly, over the last several years, we've made incredible gains collectively as it relates to student outcomes with our academic success here at our school. So getting the keys to the campus can, quite frankly, be a little overwhelming at first, but know, be who you are. Regardless, you are worthy enough. Someone believed in you to trust you with the keys to that campus. So let's be who you are and what has gotten you to this point.
Speaker 1:I was struck by the diversity of the student population. I think I read around 40 different languages spoken and I was wondering if you could talk to us a bit about I think you've touched on some of the nuggets but your philosophy of school leadership, you know you've turned. It sounds like you've really made great progress coming out of a pandemic some real advances in student achievement systems, alignment, and obviously you were recognized at a state level and I saw you recognized as one of the 100 influencers in education in the country. So great stuff, right, but what's your philosophy? Like what is as you get up in the morning and you put your jacket on and you're driving to work? Like what is your philosophy, writ large, as you enter that campus every day?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a great question, and the first thing that comes to mind and it is a philosophy, but it's really a little bit more concrete than that is school to me comes down to what I like to call the school formula. School to me, comes down to systems, structures and processes, plus the staff capacity to implement those systems, structures and processes equals whatever outcome we're trying to get to, whatever infinite goal we're trying to attain, and we collectively have to make sure that. What are we focused on? Are we focused on tier one instruction? Are we focused on family and community engagement? Is our outcome to increase post-secondary readiness? Is our outcome to increase graduation rate? But whatever those goals are, we have to make sure that we have systems, structures and processes in place and we have a way to develop our staff's capacity to be able to implement those effectively.
Speaker 2:Because what happens in school is oftentimes one of those may be really strong, but the other one is overlooked. And so you may have a great system, structure and process in place, but your staff doesn't quite understand the intricacies of those system, structures and process. So then it just becomes unsuccessful and it fails, or it just becomes malpractice. So when I get up in the morning, two things. One is I feel like I serve a greater purpose right, that's first. And feel like I serve a greater purpose Right, that's, that's first and foremost. I serve a greater purpose.
Speaker 2:I am privileged to be in this position. I'm privileged to serve the kids that I serve. I'm privileged in representing the school community that I represent, first and foremost. And so that joy is there every day when I get up, knowing that I'm going to come to school and and connect and to try to create those system, structures and processes and change them when necessary in order to continue to achieve success with whatever we have as our goals as a school. So just having that greater sense of purpose, but that in and of itself isn't going to cut it. People have a great sense of purpose in their jobs and belonging to something greater than themselves, but you have to have these other elements to it to maximize the potential that we have in whatever school community that we're serving. So having that purpose, having that joy and that drive, while simultaneously figuring these other pieces out and these other variables to get where we want to go.
Speaker 1:How do you handle the inevitable conflict? I mean, obviously, from the snapshot you gave of your upbringing from a young age, you were probably not by your own choice, but you were immersed in situations. Especially, you described some very difficult challenges and things you witnessed with your mom domestically Obviously a lot of turbulence and instability. Those are laden with conflict and trauma, et cetera. But in your life you could have taken a completely different path and been the angry guy who you know never escaped that 1.0 GPA so, but you did and you had a great career. So how do you handle the conflicts that are inevitable in motivated, intelligent, opinionated adults working together? And you've got a big staff right. Your school is how big? 2,000?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have around 220 to 30 staff members in the building, in addition to 2,000 students.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's a lot of personalities, and a system on paper is one thing. A system in the real world is a different thing. How do you handle conflict? How do you mediate? How do you mitigate things?
Speaker 2:That's another great question. So, first and foremost, people want to be heard. So oftentimes when you have a conflict, there's a communication breakdown most of the time, or there's a misunderstanding within that communication and we assume things. The first thing I do when I handle a conflict number one I remove an emotional attachment to the conflict. So I'm going to respond, based upon information and the due process and procedural pieces, to whatever the conflict is that may arise. That's first and foremost. It's really important to remove that emotional response piece. Secondly, it becomes let's get to a shared solution.
Speaker 2:So what is the solution? Because we have to coexist. I mean, this is the world we're living in. You have to coexist with people that you may disagree with, that you may get into conflict with. We have to have this social contract that says that, moving forward, we have to be able to get along regardless. Maybe it's agreeing to disagree, but we have to be able to get along regardless. Maybe it's agreeing to disagree, but we have to figure this thing out and that's part of problem solving is a skill that you have to have to be a successful adult, right? I know a lot of companies talk about 21st century skills. Problem solving is right at the top.
Speaker 2:Have to be solution oriented, I have to be solution oriented. So when you're working with a lot of passionate folks who want to do good for kids, one thing that I referenced just this summer to our staff was I pulled it from the I believe it's called Unreasonable Hospitality book. One of my friends had shared a quote with me from that, from that book, and they said this reminds me of you. And essentially, to summarize it, it said I will try to be as consistent as I possibly can, but make no mistake that I'm going to make decisions based upon what's best in it. In this book it's about hospitality with restaurants and it says I'm going to make the best decisions for the restaurant, not for you individually. However, essentially, if you're moving in the same direction as we're moving in as a school, most all the time you're going to benefit individually from that, but there are going to be occasions that it's not going to be in your benefit the decision that's being made, just like it's not going to be in my personal benefit either or professional benefit, but we owe it to the school to make decisions to where we are all moving in this direction and we're pursuing our outcomes that we're trying to achieve as a school, our outcomes that we're trying to achieve as a school, and we almost have to put blinders on some of the conflict.
Speaker 2:Not blinders on the conflict, but blinders on things that can get in the way of this, what I like to call this moral imperative of us trying to pursue these things for our kids and so handling those conflicts. It really comes around to one listen to people. Two, remove my personal emotional situation from it right, I can't have an emotional response to it and, last but not least, are the decisions that we make based upon that, because we have to move forward in the best interest of the school community and the kids that we serve. And that's how we get through conflict as a school. That's how I get through conflict as the principal and the leader of the school is really based around those key components to when conflict arises.
Speaker 1:You know, and I know you're keenly aware of this, the education sector has been pretty battered since, certainly since COVID right. Certainly since COVID right, we've got you know for the first time in a long time, educators didn't rank as high in approval ratings. Interestingly, though, when they do those Gallup polls, people still rate their kids' own schools really highly. But the industry, the sector in general, has slipped. There's a lot of, obviously, to mask, to not mask, to vaccinate, to not vaccinate, to return early, to not return early, that whole thing. Then we segue to a current Washington administration that is definitely pushing an agenda, a voucher agenda.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of turbulence in the sector in general, and, and then, of course, we all face the challenges on the local level, right, you have a community that you say, historically, had been underserved. We all have the vagaries of our own local context. What has been your biggest challenge as an educational leader outside of COVID? I'm not going to let you have that one Outside of COVID. What is? Because we all face them right and how we overcome them, defines who we are as people and also as leaders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when you're looking at challenges in education, obviously there are a lot of complexities to it. One of the first things is that there's always been societal challenges, right, and it's human behavior. Since the beginning of time, we've had challenges within society. That's first and foremost. Most of society's issues are either education is either asked to assist in fixing some of the society's issues or the education system has been on the brunt end of the blame, right. And so a challenge as a principle is how do you, on things that are out of your control or things that are outside of your, maybe even immediate influence, between some of those things that can be distractors and can be obstacles and in the way of what we're trying to do as an entity, without infighting Right? Like you said, oftentimes people will take their own kids school. They'll rank them at the top and then they'll look down at another school because of some ranks, ranking systems or experience or whatever the case may be, which we know. The history of all those things oftentimes will come down to socioeconomic status, right? So when you're looking at some of those high stakes accountability systems that are created, oftentimes you can look at the financial average salaries of that community and that's going to rank your schools for you right, and it doesn't mean that one's better than the other. It doesn't mean that one's more worthy than another not at all. But what we have to be mindful of as an education entity is making sure that we don't get caught in that infighting and that we are all serving the same purpose, which is trying to make a positive influence and create productive citizens with some of our most vulnerable populations and our kids. These are kids in our community. We're here serving these kids, and so then it becomes how do we then not shield them but again, like I said, create that buffer that it's there. There's information that's out there. There's conflict that's out there. There's a lot of political things that's out there. There's conflict that's out there. There's a lot of political things that are out there. But how do we set aside and compartmentalize that and still be able to do the work and get back to the reasons why we went into this profession in the first place again create positive opportunities for kids within our communities that we serve. So that's one of the biggest challenges outside of the pandemic.
Speaker 2:Is that work? And it's a fine balance when you are the leader of a campus, right, because you hear it, you're aware of things, you know some stuff is going on, but you try to make sure that you keep the main thing, the main thing, and that's the kids that we're serving, even if we disagree sometimes on what's best for kids right, because everybody will do things in the name of what's best for kids. But let's have clarity on what do those things look like, what do those things sound like, what do those things feel like? And then let's make sure that the things that we're focused on and doing that is what our school culture is right. So what we collectively focus on is our school culture period, and if we collectively focus on all the things outside of our control, we're going to allow external things to influence our school culture and what we do. We're just not going to allow those things to happen. We have to stick to the main thing educating our kids.
Speaker 1:I know you've had great success in your community. Your school's had great success in really improving student achievement. You know AI is ubiquitous. Now I just got back on a trip to San Francisco for a commission that I was on and every billboard in the city that on the side of the freeway was something AI, like everything. Of course, that's the ground zero of the tech industry, but AI is everywhere. Quantum computing is on the horizon. The world is changing so quickly. Quantum computing is on the horizon. The world is changing so quickly. How do you view preparing your current students for the world of work, the world of life, the world of communities in? Let's just even take 10 years out. It's a challenge for us as educators, right, and I'm just interested in your take on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's why it's really important. So we're an academy school, so we have four career academies and then we have a freshman academy that all of our freshmen are in and then, within those four career academies, now we have AP, dual credit courses, we have every type of course, but essentially it's taking a large comprehensive high school and putting them into small learning communities, which are also known as academies, and so one of the big factors in the academy structure is making sure that we are tapping into our business partners through business advisory boards, also through Commerce, lexington, and so we bring the business sector into the school and then we also go out to the community. So that is really important because, as you're talking about AI and the traditional student experience, right, and the traditional student experience, right. So when you think of what a student experience is like in high school, what it was years ago for me, right, and the opportunities and things that I could see in the exposures versus what we have at our fingertips now is really night and day, especially within our academy structure.
Speaker 2:So when you're talking about AI and technology and what the workforce and the demand is going to be, this is where we really tap into our partners, our business partners, to make sure that we are preparing our kids academically and skillset wise for what those jobs look like now, and then any potential trends that they see in the near future and us adapting what we're doing to try to meet that demand. Now, do any of us know what it's going to look like in 10 years? Well, absolutely not. But we know we're going to have to problem solve. We know there are essential skills that are out there. You know you're going to have to be able to communicate, be able to be a good team player, right. All these things are pieces to being a successful adult, regardless of what business, what career you choose to be part of. But being intentional about tapping into your business partnerships is a really important piece for us in preparing our kids for life after high school and to help assist them with their pursuit of whatever career fields they end up choosing.
Speaker 1:I read some research that indicated that. Well, obviously the whole education sector has been really impacted by chronic absenteeism, certainly since the pandemic, and I'm not sure how the state of Kentucky does their school funding pandemic and I'm not sure how the state of Kentucky does their school funding. California is seat-based so we really get absolutely impacted when kids don't show up. But the research indicated that in career tech-oriented programs and programs that are much more oriented towards practical life skills, that attendance had actually been higher than in traditional academic areas. Have you seen that to be the case? And then, secondarily, like how has attendance been for your school?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we've continued to increase attendance each year since the pandemic, along with our enrollment. So I believe in 2020, we were around the 1,650 mark when I first arrived and now we've pushed over 2,000 over the last couple of years. So just pure enrollment has increased Then. In addition to that, our attendance rate has continued to increase over the last several years.
Speaker 2:I think there's a couple of contributing factors. Number one is the relevancy of learning. So that's one piece. That's what that's our mission statement is at the Academies of Bryan Station. We make learning relevant, right, and that's through that academy experience and that student experience for our kids. That's one piece. Can you make school relevant?
Speaker 2:The second thing is there was kind of an unintended consequence of school in the pandemic. The unintended consequence was we showed that you could do school differently than sitting in seats in a building with block and mortar, right, yeah? So then all of a sudden, it became okay, we had the ability to be innovative during the pandemic, but then we wanted to go back to the traditional way of how school looked afterwards and it just didn't mix. At first, Kids knew it, adults. At first, kids knew it, adults knew it, teachers knew it, politicians knew it right.
Speaker 2:So then it becomes what are ways that you can quote unquote educate a child through performance-based learning or online opportunities whether it be through dual credit, online courses, courses through particular platforms or whatever the case may be and you still meet that need of that student, whatever that may look like and thankfully in the state of Kentucky we do have some flexibility with performance based credits we have some opportunities through internships, apprenticeships, work based learning, work based learning experiences.
Speaker 2:If our students are working, that we work with our kids in making sure that they're getting the not just that academic side of things that they, that they need and the supports through it, but also through the practical skills that they need to learn. Maybe it's now taking care of the families, right, and they have to have a job. So why can't school look different? Why should it look like it used to look? You know that's that's school in this traditional sense isn't for everybody. So let's be creative in how we serve our kids and making sure that they can still have an opportunity to be successful and still have a great experience in high school in and they're ready for that next step, that post-secondary step.
Speaker 1:That rings so true. I just had a conversation with a superintendent in New York and he Dr Nagler in Mineola, who's actually also on the same list that you're on, so he's in good company with you. But he has this thing about and it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it's the content is dead movement. And he said, yeah, I'm probably going to get misquoted and people are going to come after me, but he said content in the old, nostalgic way is dead, right, it's the skills of collaboration and adapting to the changing needs of an industry and attaching to things that are relevant. That's the part that will carry us forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the challenge and one of the fascinating things is I actually haven't. I went back and I think I said I taught elementary school and so I taught elementary school and I wanted to be a teacher in elementary school. One, because my high school I didn't. I was unable to really fall in love with a particular subject because of self-inflicted choices, right, like I was catching up to try to make sure I could graduate on time. But secondly, because I loved the development of kids. Right, I coached, I wanted to teach elementary kids. I didn't have a subject area that I loved, necessarily, on the high school side of things, they love their subject areas. They've got passionate about it, right. And so when you hear a quote and I listened to that interview and it was great, by the way of saying content is dead, he's great.
Speaker 1:It was great.
Speaker 2:But when you listen to, content is dead. But there's a definite point to that quote and it's look, if we're not teaching our kids these other pieces to the facts of the content versus let's make a connection of the relevancy because we're all going to be in a career one day, right? So you talk about college or career and the stigmas that used to be around people who didn't want to go to college and wanted to go go into some sort of career preparation program, a tech school. Those things are of the past, or they should be, because ultimately, we're all going to be pursuing a career at some point. And I think that's where that point of content is dead comes from.
Speaker 2:On, look, yes, the content is important. However, if we're not connecting with kids, with making relevant connections let me be clear about that relevant connections with them and their interest people just don't do what you want them to do because you told them to do it. It's a very few people that do that. It's more along the lines of here's the reasoning behind it and how it connects to your future. That's that relevancy piece that we try to push here.
Speaker 1:What do you think is one of the most commonly misunderstood elements of leadership? I mean, people come in, they see you, you're smiling, you clearly are passionate, you own this role, you're humble, but you're also. You have your. What was the name of that book? I'm going to check it out. Actually the Unexpected, yeah, unreasonable Hospitality, I think is the name. There we go, yeah, unreasonable Hospitality. So you know your restaurant, right, like you know you're this restaurant. You know you're not another restaurant, like you know your position. But what do you think people misunderstand about leadership? And this is really targeted, maybe, towards folks who are considering educational leadership roles, current teachers who are toying with the admin credential step, or you know, what do you think we should know about leadership that's not commonly discussed?
Speaker 2:So there are a couple things. Number one is being a leader is the responsibility to have the desire to protect people. Like there has to be some sort of emotional protection, physical protection Right, that's leadership, that's human, and I believe Simon Sinek talks about that in some of his stuff in his books. But that's true, right. So you have to be trusted as a leader and be authentic, first and foremost. The misconception is that you have to be somehow the smartest person in the room. Like, quite frankly, every room I go into I am not the smartest person in the room If I'm the smartest person in the room, then I've failed miserably of hiring people around me and I know some people.
Speaker 2:That is a hundred percent true. But your goal as a leader is do one of four things you can either dictate or delegate. You can dump or develop on those around you. Those are four things, the four Ds. One of my mentors when I arrived here at Bryan Station in Lexington. Her name was Debbie Tronzo and she said that to me. I was like wait a minute, that is spot on. And if you really think me, I was like, wait a minute, that is spot on.
Speaker 2:And if you really think about it as a leader, the misconception is one you're not the smartest person in the room. Two, you have a moral obligation to delegate and develop those that are around you. Meet them where they're at, develop them and delegate them through, whether it be one-on-one coaching and feedback conversations, whether it be through thought partners, brainstorming activities, delegating some of the decision-making right and that does take time, but going into it knowing you don't have to know everything. And one you really don't want to be the smartest person in the room and you don't need a bunch of yes people around you either. Now we all treat each other with respect and we challenge each other from a sense of urgency.
Speaker 2:But going into leadership, there's a cost to it as well. Right, there's a cost. There's a time cost, there's an energy cost, there's a stress cost that goes along with it. There's an energy cost, there's a stress cost that goes along with it. I tell my assistant principals, my academy principals, my academy coach, all the time is, you can leave here at 4 o'clock or 4.30 and turn it off when you become the head principal. There's no turning it off, there's a cognitive load that stays on.
Speaker 1:you constantly Take away the switch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't flip a switch off, it's just not how it happens. But understanding that going into it is really important for people who want to get into a leadership role. There are different components to it and it's the greatest. It is an awesome role with heavy responsibility, right and heavy weight, but you treat people right. You try to delegate and develop instead of dictate and dump on them. People will grow and you're not going to be the smartest person in the room. You should not be that smartest person in the room. Trust your people to do what you've hired them to do. Trust your people to do what you've hired them to do, but through delegation and developing, not just dumping on them saying now you go, handle this.
Speaker 1:That's not how it really needs to be, because then they're not growing. So the delegation the difference between the dictating and delegation has to do with the support and the gradual transfer of that task, rather than just go and do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like teaching. It's a gradual release model. It's just like what you want your teachers to do with their kids. They just don't assign tasks and say here, do it. This is what we're working on, and let me provide that support and that coaching through this gradual release, so you can be as successful as you can be and also continue to grow in your capacity and your skillset.
Speaker 1:Well, you've been very generous with your time and I want to make sure we end this before you do your daily drill there on your campus. But before I ask you the last question, is there anything that we haven't touched on today that you would like to share about your work, your community, your hopes, your plans, your dreams?
Speaker 2:I think for us, it's just making sure that we all continue to understand this is an infinite game and we're going to continue to chase. I mean, you're thinking of human behavior and humans who are responsible for year after year after year. There's never a place where you arrive and you're like, ok, I'm done now. Now that when you retire, that's the case, right, but you can have 100 percent post-secondary readiness, you can have a 96 percent graduation rate, et cetera, et cetera, but it starts over the next year. So you're in like this infinite game and it's the greatest infinite game, and what we will continue to do here at the Academies of Bryan Station is we talk about our standards that we have and we've established, and it's your presence matters, you belong here, your presence matters, you belong here, your presence matters, your performance matters Matters now and it matters the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:And, last but not least, your pride. And pride is in belonging to something bigger than yourself. But, as adults, those are the three things that are also critical for success in any job Be there, be consistent, show up on time, perform. That matters. And then also, when you feel like you belong to something bigger than yourself, regardless of what business you get into. You have a sense of purpose and that relevancy piece and that continues to help motivate you into showing up every day and to doing the work and you being at your max capacity and continue to push and do amazing things. So my future and the future for our school, I just want to make sure that our kids and our community knows that what they are doing is amazing work and they've always had that sense of pride in the community and let's continue to push forward and continue to make a difference and help continue to influence the next generation of kids that we are ultimately responsible for.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. I think it's no accident that your enrollment's gone up and your attendance has gone up and your achievement so you're clearly very successful and inspirational. So thank you. Very successful and inspirational. So thank you. The last question is a hypothetical and you might have, if you listened to the whole last one of the other episodes, you might have heard me ask the same question, but hypothetically. Let's say you have the opportunity to design a billboard for the side of the local freeway or thruway I'm not sure what you, how? You refer to the thoroughfares in Kentucky and California. They're all freeways. What does principal Hales billboard say as people are rushing by on whatever that is route 70 or 80, 75 and 64, 75, exactly 75 or 64.
Speaker 1:What does principal Hales billboard say about what you believe in, what you hold dear, what you hold to be true?
Speaker 2:Well, I believe that love is ultimately the biggest factor in building authentic relationships loving and caring for others and that would be on there and then for our school community. That billboard would say, similarly to the sign behind me imagine being us, as beautifully diverse as we are from all walks of life, that our kids who enter this building come from. This is a very special place. Who enter this building come from. This is a very special place and everybody wants to be part of it, but not everybody gets an opportunity to be. All they get to do is imagine being us and the excellence that we're achieving, and knowing that we are absolutely good enough and we absolutely belong at the seat in any and all tables.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. You're making me inspired. I kind of want to come visit your school. I've been to Lexington one time and I I made the mistake of going for a jog on a June morning. At about 11 in the morning I was there for a friend's family event and I went for a jog, and boy you guys, humidity is no joke.
Speaker 2:Humidity is no joke here. It is no joke.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful country, beautiful city and beautiful rolling hills and green, so maybe I'll get a chance to get out there and visit your school. Thank you, principal Hale, so much for your time, for your wisdom, for your inspiration, for your school. Thank you, principal Hale, so much for your time, for your wisdom, for your inspiration, for your positive message. I can see why you have been recognized the way you have been, and it's precisely because you're not trying to be recognized that way that you are. So thank you for your generosity.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me on and giving me this platform to brag on our school community, our kids and just me being able to talk about how you can go from being a first-generation high school graduate to the principal of the year.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on the Hangout Podcast. You can send us an email at podcastinfo at protonme. Many thanks to my daughter, maya, for editing this episode. I'd also like to underline that this podcast is entirely separate from my day job and, as such, all opinions expressed herein are mine and mine alone. Thanks for coming on in and hanging out.
