Why does LGBT+ History Month matter?

In this second episode of D&I Digest, Teagan and Henry are discussing LGBT+ History Month.

You can read the two articles we discuss here:
England To End LBQ+ Discrimination in Access to Fertility Services
Every Hospital System Needs an LGBTQ Health Director

Our D&I Spotlights this month are here:
Yasmin Benoit, asexual activist and model or @TheYasminBenoit on Instagram
Queer Diagnosis' website is not currently working, however, you can still hear all the wonderful things they have to say on their podcast!

If you have a question for us, then you can submit it through this form.

Music used is:
Who Do You Think I Think You Are? by Mini Vandals

Transcript

H: Welcome back to another episode of D&I Digest. I’m Henry, I use he/they pronouns. 

T: And I’m Teagan and I use she/her pronouns. We make up the Diversity and Inclusion Team at Anchor, which is an organisation which specialises in housing and care for over 55s. As an organisation, we get involved with a variety of awareness events throughout the year. And since LGBT History Month is one of them, that’s the focus of this episode. 

H: LGBTQ History Month was first celebrated in 2005 following the repeal of Section 28, which basically meant that LGBTQ peoples’ history was unable to be taught in schools. Every year it has a theme, for instance last year it was looking at LGBTQ people in film and TV, and this year it’s ‘Under the Scope’ to celebrate LGBTQ people in medicine and healthcare both historically and today. Which is going to be a huge topic when you consider all of the intersections of that! 

T: Yeah, absolutely. It is mad to think that actually only LGBT History Month has been around since 2005. 

H: I worked out the other day I was 9. 

T: Wow 

H: Yeah. Scary. 

T: It feels like it should have been going on a lot longer than what it has been. 

H: Yeah, for such the - for the legacy that it’s had. 

T: A hundred percent. And what- I suppose one of the questions that people who are unfamiliar with LGBT history month might have: what’s the difference between this and Pride? 

H:  So I think Pride is a bit more of a celebration of culture, I suppose. History Month is a lot more focused on, you know, recognising the past, bringing that into the present, and therefore creating a future. 

T: Mhmm. 

H: And I think Pride is a bit more of a, “You know, we got this far, this is awesome!” 

T: Yeah. 

H: So I think History Month is a bit more- the focus is on education, I suppose. 

T: Okay 

H: It originated in schools, and- 

T: That’s right, yes 

H: As a direct link to section 28 being um, abolished? 

T: Repealed 

H: Repealed, that’s the word! 

T: That makes so much sense actually so yeah be cause it’s the company called SchoolsOut that does LGBT History Month and sets the themes and whatnot, so yeah that makes a lot of sense actually. And it’s really important to remember there’ll be so many people of working age who have lived through that time of section 28 and how massive that must’ve been and how much that affected them when they were at school. 

H: Yeah, totally. And even as well the generations since, as well, so because while, you know, it was taken out of written law 

T: Mhmm 

H: In 2004 

T: Yep 

H: The legacy of that is still very much continuing. Like teachers still haven’t really been taught in a universal, kind of consistent sense how to talk about these things. It’s all still very much up to personal experience, personal interest, I suppose. So, there’s still a real lack of consistency. Yeah, so it’s a- a really big topic, and a really important month, I think, for a lot of people, because you often assume that it finishes in schools but, actually, it’s very much just starting there. 

T: Yeah, absolutely.  

MUSIC 

T: Okay so diving straight into article one then, this is an article about insemination actually, and fertility services. So the title of it is ‘England To End LBQ+ Discrimination in Access to Fertility Services’ and essentially what the article outlines is a ten year plan called ‘The Women’s Health Strategy for England’ and that the government have committed to key things which include explicitly talking about the language that’s used around fertility services to include lesbians, bisexuals, and queer women, and the focus on administering care for women regardless of non-clinical factors, for example your relationship status so in this context talking about being bisexual, lesbian, or another sexuality that is not heterosexual. So this is really interesting actually, and when I was reading the article it seemed overwhelmingly positive, I would say. But we know there’s quite a lot of work to do around this to be honest, don’t we? 

H: Yeah, I mean similar to the Section 28 thing in that it’s all very well putting it into writing but then how it’s going to translate into lived experience and reality is going to be something very different. 

T: Yeah 

H: But, like you say, it’s a really good first step to have it in writing. And that’s - yeah, surely going to be something that has a huge impact just in terms of actually it’s been legitimised.  

T: Yeah 

H: And it’s actually mentioned people. 

T: It must be really difficult to be in a lesbian relationship and recognise that you’re not going to be afforded the same fertility accesses as couples you see who are heterosexual. Because your interests are the same: you want to start a family and you want to be able to do that with the necessary medical support if you require it. And it surprises me actually that it’s taken until September 2022 to actually start having this conversation.  And I must admit, I have clearly been quite ignorant to how that’s affected the community and the lack of access that they’ve had to these things for so long.  

H: Yeah, I mean, admittedly, I’m also kind of pretty in the dark with regard to, kind of, fertility services because it’s not something I’ve ever looked at. 

T: Sure 

H: But yeah, I think it’s very revealing how suddenly there’s a kind of ‘Oh we need to include these people’ and that comes with the realisation of ‘Oh, so they’ve been excluded before’ 

T: Yeah 

H: And it’s - it’s nothing groundbreaking but it’s that kind of switch being turned on and going ‘Oh, yeah of course that wasn’t a thing!’ 

T: Mm. Okay so some things that have come out of this: So Stonewall are saying that okay this is great but it’s still very much a postcode lottery in that your access to these health services are so dependent on your NHS catchment, I guess. 

H: Yeah 

T: Which is a not – which is, well, it’s a very familiar tale, isn’t it, for a lot of people who are just generally trying to access healthcare anyway, 

H: Yep 

T: S o, yeah, it might not be all sunshine as we think it is, as this article’s trying to illustrate. What do you think do that? 

H: Yeah, I think – I think like you said, it’s a thing that- that comes across in a lot of different areas, so to have that kind of made explicit I think in terms of yeah this is really positive news but it’s not the final article, it’s not finished yet, this is a ten year plan – that's still going to take a while, and it’s still going to take a lot of dedication and a lot of improvement. So I think that it’s really- really great that the first steps have happened, but I think everybody needs to be really conscious of the fact that it’s not final. 

T: Mhmm 

H: And I think that’s often where these kind of things fall down a little, and I’m going to use my example of Section 28 again, is that people kind of assumed that oh, it’s been appealed – repealed, sorry- so it’s all fixed! 

T: Yeah! 

H: And it’s like, no no, there’s so much structural problem underneath that that is suddenly coming to light.  

T: Yeah. I also wanted to touch on the fact that this article is quite specific in its references to IVF and it doesn’t broadly talk about all the fertility services that are on offer actually to everybody. And it’s particularly talking about lesbian and bisexual women who are trying to access those fertility services, so I guess, actually, there is quite a large number of people that are being missed out from this too.  

H: Yes. Very much so. 

T: And I would say that the asexual community and the trans community weren’t mentioned in this article either. And we know from the Stonewall Ace Report that came out, talking about how asexual people are not receiving the right level of health care full stop, and that’s certainly not limited to things outside of fertility. So when people are having conversations with their doctors about not being able to conceive, and the doctors know that they are asexual, they’re kind of brushing them off, and not receiving the right treatment at all. Even if they have gone to the efforts, I suppose, of trying to do their own artificial insemination, because they are asexual, and they’ve still not been able to conceive, doctors are still not interested about having that conversation with asexual people.  

H: Yeah, exactly, there’s also – I don’t know whether it, maybe in the full, the full plan that maybe this is considered, but for example, kind of non-cisgender lesbians. If you’ve started hormones, that obviously has an impact on your fertility, those kind of- yeah. There are big groups that are still kind of being – I don’t know whether it’s not thought about-  

T: Sure. Or whether it’s just not mentioned. 

H: Or just not mentioned, or actually this is a bigger conversation, so... 

T: Yeah.  I suppose that actually, when you look at all the compound factors of this, it is a big big question to answer, isn’t it? 

H: Very much 

T: And we’ve gotta be so careful that when we talk about the queer community we’re not treating it as a homogenous group. Because all of those people will have very different needs, very different desires, and very different thoughts about family planning and how they want that to look too, so yeah. I hope that this ten year plan that they do have definitely broadens the scope for who does have access to those fertility services.  

H:  Yeah. And I feel like that’s kind of the crux of this plan, actually? Is not so much – is not so much to fix the problems or to kind of suddenly envelop a group- a huge group of people that have been omitted completely before, but it’s very much a this is the first step and we’ve written it down and we’re holding ourselves accountable to this.  

T: Yeah 

H: It feels very much like a work in progress 

T: It does 

H: It doesn’t feel like a finished article. 

T: It’s certainly an acknowledgement, but it’s by no means the finished article, is it? 

H: Yeah. Exactly that.  

MUSIC 

T: Okay. Then moving onto article two then that we’ve been looking at, one from Huffington Post back in September 2023. This one’s called ‘Every Hospital System Needs an LGBTQ Health Director’. So this is more of an opinion piece, but it talks about how Kevin Kline (not the actor) who was appointed medical director for LGBTQ health at Penn Medicine in Pennsylvania – too many pens there! It’s a brand new role, but while Penn Medicine have been at the forefront of queer-inclusive care for a while, it’s important that roles with queer-affirming medical leaders like this are starting to exist, because they haven’t before. His role is responsible for standardising guidelines, essentially, and expanding the services, as well as educating staff around the inclusion of queer people in health. So this is really interesting and I’m surprised that it’s been the US that are ahead of the game with this! 

H: Yeah, and I think there is something in terms of, yeah, Penn Medicine have been really good with generally queer inclusive health care for a long time. 

T: Yeah! 

H: But, yeah, clearly they’re not finished yet! Which is great news! 

T: Yeah, yeah, and just to sort of elaborate on my point, much like the UK, the US still were dragging their heels around same sex marriage, they’ve still got a lot of laws in place which are really not positive for queer people, whereas you look at some of the Scandi countries and they were much more forward thinking and much more ahead of the time when it came to queer inclusion and removing really archaic laws from their legislation. So yeah, it seems like the US is a little bit ahead of the game here, which is great. And having that medical director is really going to broaden the scope for what good healthcare can look like for queer people, I think. 

H: Yeah, definitely. It very much sets a precedent, I think, and that’s like, kind of,  I think what he- what his attitude towards this is? Is very much that kind of this should be normalised, so we’re going to try to normalise it as much as possible consistently. Which, yeah, is reassuring. 

T: So what’s he been doing, then? He- he's been saying that “LGBTQ+ patients should expect the same level of care whether they come into the emergency department with a broken bone or whether they’re seeing someone for follow-up after having PrEP,” and we just know that that’s not happening at the moment unfortunately.  And I think it’s particularly bad when it comes to mental health services and how queer people are struggling to access mental health services. 

H: Yeah totally, and there’s, I guess, the element as well of someone’s queer identity might only be a fraction of their identity, so when that compounds with, you know, like a Black queer person, their level of healthcare is going to be even less, so if they can help it kind of at least in some angle, then that’s obviously so much the better.  

T: Why is that? Why are queer people not experiencing the same level of healthcare? 

H: I think- well, I wouldn’t be surprised if stigma has a lot to do with it.  

T: Yeah 

H: I guess from the legacy of things like the AIDS pandemic, HIV, um, I mean even as recently as the monkeypox that infiltrated the world. So there’s still a lot of fear, I suppose? In terms of actually there’s a group that this is affecting more, or disproportionately, to everybody else. Let’s push them into a box because we don’t quite understand and we don’t want it to catch.  

T: Yeah 

H: So, I guess, that’s a- 

T: That’s really sad 

H: really big part of it, I imagine? 

T: Mm. 

H: And I suppose as well the fact that, this is going to sound really depressing, but, the fact that a lot of LGBTQ people or openly LGBTQ people won’t have been involved in a lot of the research or the testing or the experiments – the experiments, that sounds a bit harsh! Not experiments, back on that one! But in any of the research that’s been put into things, so actually if you’re testing, for example, IVF, the- heterosexual, cisgender heterosexual couples are goi ng to be the baseline of that understanding. 

T: Yeah, of course. 

H: So I guess when you just add in different factors, there’s elements of ‘ooh, maybe we should test that first?’  

T: Yeah. That is so interesting, so a bit of a, like you say, a combination of stigma around people from the LGBTQ community, there’s the issue of them not being involved in clinical trials, the issue of it being illegal for so many years and people still aligning themselves with that view, I guess, is another reason as well. But I mean it’s very clear, it’s very loud, that LGBTQ people are not getting the same level of care. And ultimately it’s roles like this which are so needed to provide a bit of equity in that space. 

H: Definitely. And I think as well things, I mean you mentioned things like mental health particularly being an area where there’s that massive inequity, or inequality even, I don’t think we’re even into equity yet- but things like it was only in 1992 that being homosexual was removed as a mental illness by the World Health Organisation. That’s - that’s a huge organisation that’s responsible for many many things, and for that to only happen in 1992... And actually in 2018 or 2019, for gender incongruence to be removed as a mental illness- 

T: Wow. 

H: That- you know, that’s very much in living memory! 

T: Yeah, very much so. 

H: Not even memory. Living- living history.  

T: Yeah 

H: And again, things like conversion therapy. You know, it was only 2022 that conversion therapy was illegal for sexuality, and it’s still – technically legal for trans people.  

T: I find that absolutely astonishing.  

H: Me too. 

T: Like that is possibly one of the most shocking things we’ll talk about today because when we talk about conversion therapy, I think everyone has a very clear view on what that looks like, and it is not positive in any way, shape, or form. So to get to this point and we’ve elected to do it for one portion of the LGBT community but not the other feels really strange and dangerous. 

H: Yeah and as well the fact that while you’ve got this kind of image of conversion therapy you know being all of like the electrolysis and the really Frankenstein-esque contraptions, it’s also things like ‘oh you don’t want to be in a relationship? What’s wrong with that? Wonder why, is it because of trauma?’ Like it’s still very much a reality for, for example, asexual, aromantic people, for trans people as well, things like, well, you can kind of have a religious angle on it, so again the fact that yes it’s a medicalised thing, but it can be so insidious as well- 

T: Yes. 

H: I guess that’s, with benefit of the doubt, that’s probably a reason why it’s not necessarily illegal currently, is because there’s so much scope to being converted.  

T: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.  

H: Not that I agree with that, but. 

T: No, of course. I think that- well, a lot of the stories that I hear around conversion therapy are, well obviously within my echo chamber as you would expect they would be, but it comes from particularly Black men who have been converted through the church, or attempted conversion through the church. And these stories are really bleak in the things that they’ve been through, and the types of, well to put it bluntly, horror that they’ve been subject to. 

H: Well it’s torture, isn’t it? 

T: Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I cannot believe that it was only last year, no sorry, we’re in 2024 aren’t we? Two years ago, just, that it was banned for one portion of the LGBTQ community.  

H: And I think that’s exactly why this second article with Kevin Kline – I've got the actor in my head now – why this role of LGBT Director is so important because you’ve got that authority position saying this is not a medical situation, so you’ve got that kind of, we know that he’s qualified, we know that he’s got all of these accreditiations, and he’s sat there and he’s using his very powerful voice to say “No, that’s not right, here’s what we should be doing.” And so you’ve got that kind of, yeah, that legitimised perspective I guess, because, I guess at the end of the day where lots of these archaic traditions come from is that lack of understanding. So the moment you legitimise that with a person who’s qualified and experienced and got all of these letters after his name, you’re immediately kind of knocking back against some of that stigma.  

T: Yeah, I mean it’s a fantastic display of allyship really, isn’t it? I know he’s obviously getting paid a shed-load of money to do this job, but it speaks volumes that he’s really gone out of his way to make this a reality. And he’s clearly got a very vested interest in pushing this forward which is really great to see.  

H: Okay so one question that we’ve got for this article and kind of surrounding it is- why is it important to not stop at one person? Because you know, having Kevin Kline there is brilliant as a really high up director, but surely we can’t just stop there? 

T: No absolutely, it’s still just his view. It’s still just one person who’s trying to operate in a space where you’ve got lots of different characteristics to consider. And I think if it was just Kevin doing all of that then we’d eventually become unstuck really because of his thoughts and feelings and his lived experience might not be the same, well it definitely won’t be the same as the next person who’s going to bring something very different to the table.  

H: Yeah. And I think there’s kind of this element of you need diversity of thought in a position of that height. So obviously, yeah, having Kevin Kline there is going to be a brilliant, again, first step, but if it’s just him then eventually his voice will be quiet. Then actually, if you’ve got a group of people who are represented, or representing various aspects of LGBTQ identities and beyond, and you’ve got, you know, intersections of identity and someone who disagrees completely, actually all of those perspectives are really important so you need that understanding and, actually, perhaps sometimes lack of understanding so that you can properly you know, think through something and be able to support it, so yeah again, while I think it’s really nice to have that representation there, you can’t really have too much of it. 

T: Yeah, I think you’re right, you’ve got to have so many voices around the table to create a full, well-rounded, holistic approach I think, actually. And it’s just interesting actually what you said about people that disagree or people that don’t get it as well – got to have the people around the table who also don’t understand I think is what you said. That’s really interesting because I suppose you can get into a habit as well of assuming that people know things? And if you do that, the guidance that you put together might not have the level of detail that it should, actually. And when we’re talking about health, that’s pretty important! 

H: Yeah, totally. It’s like when things like recipes just used to, well now just say ‘one egg’. And it’s like – an ostrich egg? Uhh 

T: Can we be more specific? 

H: Yeah! But because that knowledge is so assumed, it’s not needed to be written down, so I think, yeah, exactly like you say, you need that kind of diversity of ability almost, and understanding, so that you can approach it from all of those positions because all of those are needed. 

T: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, we have a massive requirement from an education perspective. Yeah, especially for uncharted territory such as this, when we’re thinking about policies and services that are put in place specifically to provide an equitable service to the LGBTQ community. 

H: Yeah. And especially as well when they’re such huge systems in place. So it’s all very well considering, and it’s very good considering the LGBTQ patients but there are so many huge systematic injustices within these organisations like healthcare. Yeah, so it kind of allows that to be broadened out and as you say, have all of those voices around the table.  

T: So this is also an unprecedented role, what about other systemic injustices then? So specifically when we’re looking at things like healthcare for Black women, for instance. Some, yeah, some shocking statistics when we think about Black women in healthcare. And we were talking about fertility earlier, but if we’re talking about when Black women are pregnant and when they’re giving birth, they’re four times more likely to die in childbirth. Which is just shocking. And again, that comes down to a lot of the points that we’ve already discussed around sort of your prejudices within the systems, within the policies, within the procedures that are already existing within the healthcare model. But if we’ve got a director who’s specifically looking at LGBTQ healthcare, do we need that for other characteristics? Do we need that for other groups of marginalised people? 

H: That’s an interesting question which you hear a lot in different contexts as well, so I’m interested now to see how this correlates to every other situation because I would say “Yes.” At least when they are unprecedented roles.  

T: Sure 

H: The counter-argument for this is but surely that separates us all more and emphasises those differences. But I think actually those differences are already being emphasised by the lack of attention. So I think you really need to make an effort to include them first, and that might include, in a table of 30 people. So yeah, I think there does need to be that explicit acknowledgement and welcoming and inclusion of people, at least while that’s not an assumed.  

T: Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying, I think when the sheer scale of the problem is so huge, you’ve really got to do something to tackle it. And the best way to tackle it is to bring in the experts. And if the experts are people who don’t normally have a role within your infrastructure, or institution, then I guess you’re going to have to create one. 

H: Yeah, exactly that. 

T: We see that all the time, you know, you identify the problem, and the problem is usually that you’re going to have to bring someone in that specialises in this area. Great, okay, let’s keep doing that then whilever we can see that there are so many problems, particularly within healthcare. So you would bring someone in that’s focused on healthcare for Black women, or you would bring someone in that’s specialising in healthcare for people who have got disabilities, and until we see the playing field level out a little bit, then we can start to think about pedalling backwards I guess, and having a more unified approach to healthcare.  

H: Yeah, and I think that’s it, it’s while the system is unequal, and inequitable, of course you need individual people to kind of – this sounds really bad but like – plug the gaps in it? When those gaps have been plugged you can then think about fixing the system, and that’s I guess hopefully where you start thinking about well now we don’t need an individual for each aspect of humanity because, you know, we’re hopefully ingraining that in the culture in the system itself. And it doesn’t become structural injustice, it’s evened out, yeah. 

T: Yeah, absolutely. Okay cool, so um with the theme being ‘Under the Scope’ then, for LGBT History Month, what do you want people to be thinking about, what do you want people to be looking at, what do you want people to be paying attention to this February? 

H: So there’s a group of students and their website is queerdiagnosis.com and they are essentially a group of medical students who are trying to deliberately consider this area of LGBT people in healthcare, so they’re a really good group to look out for. I’d recommend having a browse through their website, it’s really interesting! Especially for someone like me who doesn’t know a huge amount, or didn’t know a huge amount – really helpful, really insightful! 

T: That’s interesting actually, so because actually a lot of the health services and a lot of the education you can have around advocating for your health has been so centred towards cisgender people, and people who are not part of the queer community, I imagine it’s really difficult as someone who is trans or who is part of the queer community to find what they need, actually? 

H: Yeah! Yeah, even just looking for signposts, it’s- you’ll often find as well that there are loads of resources for LGBT people who are under 18. 

T: Oh, okay 

H: Or like, LGBT youth. There’s really little stuff available for adults other than sexual health. 

T: Sure 

H: Which, again, super important! But I promise we have health otherwise! 

T: Yeah yeah absolutely. 

H: Yeah so, and actually on that, another person to kind of keep an eye out for is Yasmin Benoit who is a model and an activist for asexual rights. So yeah, she’s a really interesting person to be aware of and follow her causes and things. She was one of the figureheads for Stonewall's Asexual Report, and yeah. She’s got huge insight and a really vested interest I suppose in making sure that services are accessible for asexual people.  

T: That’s cool, so um, not only is she sort of spearheading change in the sort of activism area anyway, she’s also doing it for a really marginalised group of people who are ace, or asexual. 

H: Yeah, exactly 

T: That’s good! That’s great.  

(break FAQS) 

T: So, we’ve had some FAQs that have come in. We have got ‘what can people who aren’t in decision making roles in healthcare do to support?’ 

H: Really good question. And actually I think quite a tricky one to answer because actually in reality one of the answers is probably “Not a lot”. But I think there are some ways where actually awareness goes a long way. So, being aware of what you’re being asked in like a GP sort of situation, and just having that awareness clocking of oh people are going to have very different answers to this. Or even get a bit more cynical with it and kind of like "Why are you asking me my relationship status when I’m here for a headache?” Like - 

T: Yes! 

H: There are some questions that don’t seem to align. 

T: That’s very true 

H: With why you’re there, with why you’re asking someone for those services. So I think just having that awareness is really helpful. And I guess that awareness as well of who you’re being seen by? And I mean that in a kind of who your doctor is, who your nurses are. Are they people who look like you? Are they not? And again just that – having that thought opened is quite helpful I think in terms of this so while it’s not necessarily supporting actively, it’s not necessarily helping in a direct sense, I think it is helping to expand your understanding as an individual.  

T: And I guess the people who are really keen to get involved in a more physical way, or in a more visible way, I’m sure there's charities, 

H: Oh yes! 

T: And there are organisations, and there’s government lobbying, and there’s loads of, what do you call them, when you sign it? 

H: Petitions? 

T: Petitions! Thank you! I lost the word then – there's petitions you can sign, particularly when we’re talking earlier about conversion therapy 

H: Oh yeah there’s loads of those going around 

T: And I know there's definitely quite a few of those going around to get that banned this year, so yes, whilst you might not be someone who’s a decision maker within healthcare, as a lot of us aren’t to be fair, there’s always ways you can show your support and get involved, and I guess February, with it being LGBT History Month is a really great month to get involved and do that.  

H: Yeah definitely. And I think there’s that kind of awareness as well of who’s partaking in these conversations. So particularly when it comes to like, you know, writing petitions and lobbying for change, think about who’s making those decisions and why your voice is important in that. 

T: Yep. Okay and then the second question that's come in is ‘What would you like to see from the healthcare sector with regards to LGBTQ progess?”  

H: As a, very much a layperson, so I go to the doctors and I’m relying on them as experts because I cannot help myself in a lot of these situations, so as a layperson, I would expect, and therefore want to see, a position where I don’t have to do the educating.  

T: Okay 

H: Because it’s very concerning when I go to the doctor asking for help and they’re Googling something. And it- 

T: Yeah. I imagine that’s very jarring, actually! 

H: It’s a bit concerning, actually, in terms of things like having an injection.  

T: Yeah, sure 

H: And they’re like “Let me just check how to do this” and it’s like, well it’s an intramuscular injection, I think – I think it’s the same as any other intramuscular injection? Obviously I, as a layperson, and a very unqualified human don’t know that, but I would expect that they would. 

T: Yes. I don’t see how it would be any different.  

H: Yeah, so I think actually that- putting that in words actually has solidified my what I would like to see. And I think what I would like to see is stop making a big deal of people being LGBTQ. 

T: Interesting. 

H: Because actually, the mechanics of a lot of things are exactly the same. Or where they’re not, they’re different for everybody. 

T: Do you think they are scared? 

H: Yes 

T: Of what? Potential backlash, or a complaint, or whatever it might be? 

H: Yeah? I think there’s definitely some of that, and I guess maybe just not knowing how to talk to somebody which- it sounds very patronising almost, but I think there is that element of actually I’d much rather my nurse for instance, said “Actually you know what, I’ve never done this type of injection, bear with me, I’m going to get someone who does know how.” As opposed to someone who sits there and Googles it and then comes at me with a syringe. 

T: Not filling you with much confidence, is it? 

H: No! And yeah, I would like to see healthcare professionals have more confidence in this, and I think that’s not an easy thing to ask for, I think that comes with a lot of changes to the education they receive, 

T: Absolutely 

H: The awareness that they have, but I think it’s really needed because like I said, it’s a bit scary going to an expert who is your only option who doesn’t know what to do. 

T: Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s things like when you’re filling out forms and they probe a little further. It’s always kind of funny because my sister is a lesbian, and she always laughs at me on the phone when she comes back and she goes “Oh, they’ve asked me again if I’m pregnant on a form!” And she always ticks that she’s not, and she always gets quizzed about it and then relishes in the fact of sitting there and going “Well I’m a lesbian so. That would be quite tricky for me right now if I was spontaneously pregnant.” So it’s quite funny when she tells me that, and actually if doctors are in a situation where they could also engage in a bit of light humour with that too, and not feel so uncomfortable about it, maybe that would make the process a little bit easier for people too. 

H: Yeah, exactly. So like, again, it sounds so flippant, but stop making a big deal of it.  

T: Yeah 

H: Which I appreciate is easier said than done, but I think there’s just so much tension around the topic because it’s been done so badly historically, which again, I understand makes total sense, but that’s no reason to keep doing it badly. It’s similar to the whole “I don't know what to say so I'll say nothing” 

T: Yeah 

H: Whereas actually I’d rather you tried or admitted that you didn’t know, and that’s fine, you know? There’s always going to be people like that, especially if, you know, trans people are 0.1 of the percent of the population, of course you might never have encountered a trans person before that you know of. Sure, go and ask for some help! I’d much rather that than be stabbed in the leg.  

T: And I think one of the things that I think I’d like to see from the healthcare sector in terms of progress is actually seeing more LGBTQ people being healthcare professionals.  

H: Yes! That too! 

T: I think that’d help massively. I think when you’ve actually got people within the healthcare system that have that lived experience that they can share, I imagine that will heavily influence the way that we do things within our healthcare system too.  

H: Totally, and it’s rather telling that I didn’t even think of that as an option. And I think that kind of says it all, really! 

T: Absolutely. You’d want to feel- I think it’s always so important to see the society that we live in reflected in all of the services that you use. Whether that’s healthcare, whether it’s education, whether it’s a supermarket, I don’t know, but whatever it is, you want to see a true reflection of that society around you and that is no different here. You want to see LGBTQ people in all levels of the job as well, not just entry level roles, you also want to see them where they are able to spearhead change and make direct impact in a big way as well. 

H: And I think especially with something like LGBTQ as a concept, as a community, it’s not always a visible thing so I think what you’re saying is really important because there needs to come a point where you can trust that that experience is at least in the vicinity. So yeah, I would like to see more LGBT people in these professions, but actually I’d also like to know that you know what, even if they’re not in this room or in my doctor’s surgery, there is influence there. 

T: And do you know what, even like things that are so simple like a little pride pin badge on your lanyard and stuff, I imagine that makes people feel much more comfortable in a situation where they’re going to see a healthcare professional for the first time, if it’s the first time they’ve encountered that doctor or that nurse or whoever they’re seeing to just put them a little bit at ease? To know that actually this might not be a really horrible experience for me. 

H: Yeah, and I think, to link perfectly back to what we were saying at the very beginning, it’s about that- we need to flatten the playing field at the moment, and actually that does involve, I say ‘targeting people’ not in a bad way but kind of making some people explicitly included so that that assumption can come later.  

T: Yes. Absolutely. Okay cool and my final question is do you see anything on the horizon that’s going to be a big change for LGBTQ people, particularly when it comes to healthcare? 

H: I mean I hope that things around conversion therapy are going to be sorted out pretty swiftly for the better. 

T: Sure  

H: I think that’s one of the huge things that’s been holding us back, I’m gonna go in with the big guns here, as a society. If you’re still in a position where you’re telling people that it’s morally wrong to be who they are, I just don’t- I don’t understand how that could be a modern society.  

T: It’s really sad, isn’t it? Because ultimately people are just trying to live their lives and they’re just trying to recognise who they are in the grandest sense of the word, and not want to feel any shame or any pressure to be something that they’re not. And whilever we’ve got these laws still in place, I don’t think we’re quite there yet.  

H: No, exactly, and I think it only ever adds to that stigma and the reluctance for people to talk about things like transgender healthcare while there’s still even a breath of a debate about ‘oh maybe it’s a mental illness’ so I think you can’t possibly conceive of full, equitable healthcare when you’ve still got that doubt that these people count. So I think that’s what I would like to see from imminent future. 

T: Yes! Absolutely. Okay, awesome. Well I think it’s been a really interesting discussion, actually, and I’ve learnt things, and I’m really pleased to see how we are progressing in the space. It is slow but I think the momentum will start to build. And I hope  for our listeners they might have taken a bit of something away today and want to celebrate LGBT History Month as well. So thank you for joining us for this episode of D&I Digest, and remember that you can follow us on our website and social media, and we hope that you’ll come back and listen in next month! So it’s bye from me. 

H: And it’s bye from me. 

Both: Bye!