Episode 1 - Mapping the Future: LIDAR Technology and Infrastructure Planning

In our first episode of Season 2, Mary Scott Nabers interviews Richard Wade, the geographic information officer for Texas, about the transformative technology of LIDAR (Light Detecting and Ranging). They discuss how LIDAR is revolutionizing data collection and geospatial mapping, particularly in understanding and managing environmental challenges such as flooding, utility management and urban planning.

Meet your host:

Mary Scott Nabers is President/CEO of Strategic Partnerships, Inc. (SPI). A recognized expert regarding P3s, she is the author of Collaboration Nation – How Public-Private Ventures Are Revolutionizing the Business of Government & Inside the Infrastructure Revolution – A Roadmap for Rebuilding America. Her articles have been published by media outlets, including Forbes, CNBC, The Hill & POLITICO.  Mary was the president and general manager of two media firms. In government, she served as the commissioner representing business at the Texas Employment Commission where she was a high-profile, proactive business advocate who founded The Texas Business Council. Then, Commissioner Nabers moved to the Texas Railroad Commission, the state’s regulatory agency for the oil and gas industry, which at the time regulated approximately $65 billion of the state’s economy annually.

Transcript

Mary Scott Nabers (00:08.669)
Good morning and welcome to the first podcast in season two. We have an illustrious guest today, Richard Wade, is the state of Texas' geographic information officer. And he is sort of an expert in data and how to use it. And I wanted to have this program because...

There's so much new technology and most of us understand a little bit about cyber security and AI and the most common technology. But there's a technology out there called LIDAR, which comes with geospatial mapping that is now going to be a part of our future. And I think it's very, very appropriate to get an expert to talk to us about what is it, how are we using it and what do we need to know about it. So Richard, with that, let me ask you to thank you so much for being on here today. And thank you also for educating us just a bit. Tell us what in the heck is LIDAR anyway.

Richard Wade (01:11.886)
Thank you so much.

Richard Wade (01:20.418)
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your program. I really, really appreciate it. And LIDAR, to me, is probably one of the most exciting data sets that we can have. So LIDAR is actually an acronym for Light Detecting and Ranging. And it is a process by how you can collect elevation data in the world by using LIDAR, by using lasers.

through either terrestrial or aircraft or whatever and it just basically showers the ground with these laser points and then bounces back to a sensor and you're able then to collect the elevation and the relief of the earth's surface. And so anything it hits, it can understand where that point was in space. So it's a...

Mary Scott Nabers (02:09.115)
And Richard, I've heard that it can even go below ground.

Richard Wade (02:14.504)
Yeah, primarily if it's more like water and it depends on the kind of laser that it has. So primarily it reflects off the surface and that's how you're able to understand where points are in space and then it creates a nice really three-dimensional model of the Earth's surface.

Mary Scott Nabers (02:35.109)
And then the next question is, how is it used?

Richard Wade (02:41.004)
Well, it's, you know, I always call it, it's kind of one of those data sets that just keeps on giving. understanding where things are on the Earth's surface is critical to modeling, right? It's very critical to how we understand how, you know, water runs off the Earth's surface or human involvement. So if you've got development, it changes the Earth's surface and so things react differently.

So having a very, very detailed model of the Earth's surface is where you get that benefit from. And so for modeling, for flood modeling, water runoff, subsidence, and those kinds of things, it becomes really, really critical to have that kind of detail. And so I think that's the exciting part with LIDAR. On top of that, you can get additional products out of it as well.

Mary Scott Nabers (03:31.595)
And so, know, Richard, we have so many weather-related disasters, bad events, and so forth. And I know that flooding has become more of a problem than ever we've known it to be in the past. So you might just explain how LIDAR helps them understand where the flooding, where the water is going, what it's going to impact, and so forth.

Richard Wade (03:57.056)
Yeah, think flooding is probably one of the best uses of LIDAR, right? And so what we've really identified is that when you can take LIDAR and you classify all its points that you have, I can tell you what a building is or where a building is. I can tell you where trees are. I can tell you where the bare earth is. And by taking away certain aspects of it, you can do...

real-time flow models like with just bare earth, you know, bare earth information. Or you can put your buildings back on and see how that obstructs water and what it does to water. So those are the key parts. And having it updated regularly is where it becomes really, really useful. Understanding, you know, maybe how we've changed that area or changed our environment by

building subdivisions, shopping malls, and that kind of thing. All that has to be understood so you understand what's going to happen with the diversion of water. So I think those are the critical pieces of it. And then having the detail is critical and the ability to look at it over time.

Mary Scott Nabers (05:05.747)
And then I want to ask about, you know, power and energy. Every citizen, every taxpayer, every public servant is concerned about that. Does LIDAR play a role here?

Richard Wade (05:37.066)
Yes. So, LIDAR itself, because you can understand where the power lines are, let's just say, let's go with transmission lines. If you understand where the lines themselves are and you understand where vegetation growth is, you can see where there's trees that are maybe overgrowing a power line. And you can have the system tell you, show me where that conflict is.

And so if you've got a power line that's obstructed by a tree or has a tree over it, you could go back and say, if you show me that information, we can send crews out then to trim back the vegetation to keep those power lines safe. So I think it has a really, really strong use in the utility field for sure.

Mary Scott Nabers (06:22.893)
And I think about California and the wildfires. And we even had a horrendous wildfire issue in Texas recently. But I assume California must be using LiDAR to see where the problems are.

Richard Wade (06:40.994)
Right, right. Think of it this way, because lidar can penetrate tree canopy, you can see what's underneath trees, right? So you don't, unlike imagery where you can be obstructed by tree canopy, you don't know what's down there, you can actually tell if you have maybe undergrowth or if you've got maybe a fire hazard up underneath there where you have dead vegetation. You can see that with lidar. And so that's really, really important to...

Take that information and if you know what you're looking for, you can determine that that vegetation is dead underneath the growing vegetation. It could pose a fire hazard and then you have, know, the Forest Service and others can kind of come in and clean up in advance of fire season to try to mitigate any issues for fire.

Mary Scott Nabers (07:33.011)
And I know that a state needs statewide coverage, statewide mapping for planning purposes. But I'd love to get you to speak to that and tell us how do you use this for planning? How many states have statewide current geospatial mapping?

Richard Wade (07:55.138)
Right. So, LIDAR has actually been one of those technologies where the pricing has come way, way down. I mean, I would say it's dropped probably 40 percent in the last 10 years. And so, more states are adopting it as a statewide data layer as we have in Texas. And the reason why it's so critical is because not everything follows boundaries, right? I mean, floods and hurricanes and whatever, they don't care about boundaries.

they're going to fall in whatever watershed they're going to fall into and so they'll flood it the way hurricanes will do. So having LIDAR across the state will allow you to understand how one watershed is capturing the water and what it's going to do next to the other watershed adjacent to it. So if you don't have the information, you don't have the complete story.

So it is important for us to understand across the state, not even across the state, you have to understand across borders. We have to understand what's happening in Oklahoma and New Mexico and Arkansas and Louisiana. That information should be made available as well across states. So that's one thing at the national level we are working on is trying to get states to all work together to share their information across.

the country to different states too. So it's extremely important that we capture it the same way across the nation.

Mary Scott Nabers (09:23.173)
As you know, and I know that all of our audience knows, but we work across the United States. And I find it interesting that a lot of people don't realize that water is a problem for every single state. It's not just water resources, it's water capacity, it's what's happening to the water. Is another state capturing my water?

Do I have water for industry and farming and growth and my lakes and so forth? So LIDAR, I know it's going to be play a very, very important role there.

Richard Wade (10:04.128)
Absolutely. The only other thing I did want to bring up too is how important LIDAR is with other data sets like imagery. So when you get those synced up, you almost double your understanding of the scenario versus having things out of sync or out of time. So that is another component to capturing data correctly that will kind of make a difference across the state.

Mary Scott Nabers (10:30.067)
And there are still at the federal level billions of dollars in programs that could be allocated to cities and counties for sustainability projects, for water projects, for grid projects and so forth. do you have any?

expertise to share for other public officials who might be trying to get some money to do some of the things you're doing.

Richard Wade (11:01.462)
Yeah, and I think that the really interesting thing is, LIDAR has proven itself recently, you know, during Harvey, during the East Texas floods where you were able to use LIDAR to predict flooding scenarios in advance, like days in advance of when they happened. So riverine flooding, right? When you understand how that is used and you can document it and you can, and people who are affected specifically, you know,

those who have the ability to maybe explain that to their senators or their legislative bodies, all of a sudden it's not hard to understand its value and its importance. So before it was theoretical. Now we've gone through some things by which it's no longer theoretical. We've been able to prove its value and its return on investment is actually quite critical.

So it's not hard anymore to really explain it and show it in action from historical purposes and possibly even in the future to let them know what their areas are going to, what's going to happen in their areas given an event that might be approaching. So it's not as hard as it used to be. I think documentation is there that we could prove it.

Mary Scott Nabers (12:21.747)
And I know that at the federal level, are, senators and representatives are looking at mapping the entire United States, which may not get done anytime soon. So the states are having to do this on their own. Tell us, I know you're doing lots of projects, lots of things. What's the most exciting thing you're doing with geospatial mapping or LIDAR in Texas?

Richard Wade (12:49.078)
Yeah, absolutely. I think as I had mentioned, having that data available and having the resources there to get that information is the critical thing. We are now marrying that information with imagery, with things like address points, with parcel information. We're marrying all of that together. And with that, you can start to do things like digital twinning, right? You can start to...

create a three-dimensional model of Texas that you can almost keep up in near real time. That's the future, right? So the future is if we can kind of keep the state of Texas up to date and synced up, you can run what-if scenarios all day long. You can even build out subdivisions prior to them actually being built out to understand how that's going to affect your neighbors or, you know,

water resources or whatever it might be. And so we are at a point in time, it isn't about collecting the data, it's how you collect it and how you merge it. And if you hear the term digital twin, that is kind of that concept of putting it all together in a usable way that everybody can use it and model from. So that's our future, I think that's our driver moving forward. And then AI and other things will come into play there that can help us.

along the way to understand scenarios that we may not be seeing right off. So it's a really exciting time.

Mary Scott Nabers (14:21.219)
And digital twin modeling is another one of those new technologies that's fairly modernistic. And what other ways is that being used?

Richard Wade (14:35.438)
So I think early on, it's basic stuff. It's going to be really, really basic. So a really good example of what you can use Digital Twin for right now is when you put all the buildings in and you get the facades of the building so I can see the floors and the details of the building.

and there's a major flood or you're modeling a flood, you can determine if even the water may run onto the building, you can look at that digital twin and understand that it's okay because the building is above grade by a percentage or by a number, by how many feet. So chances are what you would think is that might look like something's being inundated.

truly may not be inundated and you can see that with digital twin. You'll be able to understand that there is a first floor elevation that's above where the water is because the planning has been done correctly. And so I think that's kind of one of the first things that we're trying to determine is taking that digital twin and understanding the details that we were never able to understand.

with that and as changes are made that information can be ingested into that digital twin so you're constantly working with the most up-to-date information. That is our driver and that's what we want to do and I think it's just going to continue to improve over time.

Mary Scott Nabers (16:02.727)
You know, there's so much concern right now and it's probably only going to increase about emergencies, disasters, weather-related storms. And it brings you back to realize the importance of planning and being ready. And planning has never been anywhere near as important or critical.

component of government as I think it probably has to be now. And so all of this is going to help every kind of upcoming disaster or event we have.

Richard Wade (16:44.558)
You know, one thing we haven't really even talked about too, when it comes to the planning side of it, there's, you had mentioned looking, light are being used under the surface. One of the biggest things that we are approaching right now is what's called bathymetry data. And bathymetry data is the ability to see underwater. And so we're working on the bays of Texas right now to try to understand what is underneath the water. Because when you have a storm surge,

from a hurricane, that is what determines how damaging that storm surge may be when you model that. And so, you know, as we learn about how valuable LIDAR is on the surface, we're also learning how important it is to understand the elevation underneath our rivers and streams and our bays and estuaries. So new technology is being developed to use...

you know, versions of light are to see down into the depths of the water best you can and then when you can't see any further you might have to go more of a sonar type route to collect that information. But then once you marry all that together you've really started to impact the understanding of what it's going to take of why it's important to collect this information the way we have to collect it which is regularly over time.

and be able to educate everybody on its value and its uses.

Mary Scott Nabers (18:11.751)
You know, because of what we do and we work across the United States, we see, I guess we have a more visionary look at what's happening in the future. And there are lots of big issues that I think all citizens need to know about. Water is certainly one of them. Our grids are certainly another. The planning is going to become critical.

Being able to see the imagery, the mapping, we will not be able to be successful without it. So I really appreciate your expertise, your sharing your knowledge with us today. And I'll let you have the last slide here to say, if there's any advice you would want to give another state who's dealing with a lot of the same issues that you are, I know.

There's so many issues, it's hard to get legislative attention, it's hard to get federal attention. Anything you would share to.

Richard Wade (19:17.838)
I would, I think some of the things that we, that I discuss with some of my partners at the, at the state level, at different states, is don't be afraid to find the wins by which people have used your information to make a decision that's been helpful. Because you don't always see that you may be really happy with what you've done, but does anybody else know what just occurred or what just happened? And so we have to be really good about

publicizing the importance of this information and how it helped you in a recent event. Every state's prone to floods. Every state isn't, or maybe you're more prone to fires. But I can promise you that that information that that state has collected has been used to mitigate those fires or those floods or those events could be earthquakes. And they should, all states should really, really drive home the importance.

of that data when it came to mitigating that event. And get it out there, talk to your legislative body, talk to your state leaders, make sure they understand that importance, and then point to other states that are successful as well. And I believe it will sell itself and it will become something people just realize, this is something we have to do, not optional. So that's what I would say to my partners at the other states.

Mary Scott Nabers (20:40.968)
Right.

Mary Scott Nabers (20:46.255)
And I always like to close with just a little bit of insight from me. And here's my advice. I would say, no matter where you are, which state, which jurisdiction, which part of the world you live in, you have elected officials at the state level, city level, but the federal level. And I would ask, if you're a part of an organization, ask someone to come and talk to you about LIDAR, our...

Geospatial mapping or how are you planning to protect us from all of the disasters we're struggling with right now? I was in government, was a statewide office holder for 10 years and I literally was encouraging people to let me know all the time, what do you want to hear about? What are you worried about? What do you think you don't know enough about? And so that's sort of what these podcasts are all about.

And I'm always hoping that after we finish one of these, reach out either to us and we'll route you to your elected official if you need us to. But locally, reach out, ask them what's happening here in our community? What do we need to be doing? What do we need to know? And by the way, what's happening at the state level? Because I have representatives there as well. And then finally,

look and ask your federal representatives what's happening at the federal level with things like this because this is our future and this is our life and these are things we need to know about. Thanks so much Richard and thanks all of you who tuned in today and we will see you again on another podcast very very soon. Thanks so much.

Richard Wade (22:32.526)
Thank you so much.