My Thai Wife
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My Thai Wife
Flame of Passion: David's Odyssey from IT to Steakhouse in Pattaya
David's journey from IT professional to restaurateur offers a refreshing perspective on expatriate entrepreneurship in Thailand. After first visiting in 1997, he gradually built a life that allowed him to spend more time in the Land of Smiles, eventually purchasing a building in Pattaya as a pension investment. When COVID hit and his tenants departed, David made what he calls "a crazy decision" to open The Flame restaurant in Soi lengkee.
What makes his story compelling is the heartfelt motivation behind the business. Unlike many restaurant owners driven primarily by profit, David created The Flame as a legacy for his son, born when David was 50. This perspective freed him to focus on quality and customer experience rather than maximizing margins. He specifically designed a restaurant with romantic ambiance at reasonable prices – filling a gap he personally experienced when looking for places to take dates in Pattaya.
The conversation reveals fascinating insights into restaurant management challenges, particularly regarding staffing and maintaining consistent quality. David candidly shares his struggles with balancing loyalty to long-term Thai staff against the need for service improvements based on customer feedback. His commitment to ensuring every customer leaves happy sometimes clashes with cultural differences in service expectations – a relatable challenge for many foreign business owners in Thailand.
Beyond business talk, the discussion touches on thought-provoking observations about technology's impact on society, the changing nature of creativity in the AI age, and differences between Thai and Western approaches to family and work. David's thoughtful perspective on how "society has become so instant and available that nothing's really special anymore" resonates deeply in our hyperconnected world.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, a foodie, or simply curious about expatriate life in Thailand, this conversation offers valuable insights delivered with authenticity and heart. Visit The Flame in Soi lengkee to experience David's vision firsthand – quality steaks, popular Sunday roasts, and a welcoming atmosphere where customers often become friends. Share your experiences with restaurants that prioritize quality over cutting corners in the comments below!
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Hello everyone and welcome back to my Thai Wife Podcast. I'm Mike and sadly I'm still doing this without my lovely, lovely wife, sunari.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, nice to see you again. Welcome back to my Thai Wife Podcast. Who are?
Speaker 1:you.
Speaker 2:I'm Pim.
Speaker 1:Oh, so tell them you're Pim. And we got another special guest for us. His name is David. I've known him for about three months almost. I think. A very nice guy, very good guy. I like him. I spent a lot of time on in his restaurant, which is the flame in soylinki. Right, yeah, hello, david, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:so how? First I will start by that. Okay, I known you from some friends, like mutual friends that we have, and they told me, oh, you have to try this restaurant. They haven't even spoke about you first. Right, just try that restaurant. Okay, that's nice and it is a very good restaurant, but I know, especially in Soi Linky, there are more than one steakhouse, right? Yes, yes. So before we go to the whole, why you came to Thailand and everything, this was my first question to you. I remember that when I asked you why opening Soy Linky when there is so much competition.
Speaker 3:Okay. So, first thing, I purchased the building 20 years ago as a pension, okay, and I was happy to rent it out and just leave it like that. But then COVID came and the tenants left, so, as a result, I had to decide to find a new tenant or do something, and I decided like it was a crazy decision, but I decided to make a restaurant. Okay, and I've been learning the trade over the last two years since we opened. And the second thing, the reason I chose a steakhouse was I decided to do food that I knew that I liked and felt comfortable with, because obviously I could judge the level of customer satisfaction with some confidence With your own time. Yeah, okay, yeah. So like, for instance, I can't eat seafood, so I'm very nervous when I put seafood on the menu. Why? Because of the freshness of it.
Speaker 3:No, no, I just actually I've always struggled with seafood. I tried to at 18. You don't like it yourself, I just can't eat it, okay. So basically, I tried to eat it at 18, but you don't like it yourself, I just can't eat it, okay. So basically, I For those and there's only a couple of seafood dishes on the menu. I rely on the chef to get it right. Basically, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. Not many people like Okay, I'll rephrase that okay, some people do like seafood very much, but in the western world it's less common.
Speaker 2:it's less common, so I get that and the dog lager in Pattaya is just like many places for seafood.
Speaker 1:Many choices, many around Pattaya, it's all seafood so yeah, but it's almost all of it it's Asian seafood. I almost never seen stuff like like. I give you example, example like a real risotto, you know what I mean, with the scallops and everything. You never see that around. You see a lot of Asian seafood dishes.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've been often in Poldi seafood, but I also think it's high risk because People can get the shits from it. I feel safe with steak, that you're very unlikely to have any problems with customer health and ideas, as long as you trust your supplier and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So before you said something very interesting to me, you said you purchased the building 20 years ago, right, yes, for your pension and everything, this means you're coming for Thailand at least for 30 years. Yeah, I came in 1997 the first time.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'm almost right I was off by two years? Very good guess. Yeah, and I came here, loved it, but obviously, like most people who come here, you can't stay here for long.
Speaker 1:Because of the visa situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, because you have a job. And then you're here on holiday and I was lucky to have my own business. So we said IT business and slowly I managed to kind of sneak more time over here and then eventually I had a different business, which was design. My customer was in Germany and they basically said to me, because I was in England and sending the work remotely to Germany anyway, they allowed me to come and work here, Okay, and that's really given me the chance to live here.
Speaker 1:So you closed the IT business or you sold your share.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Actually we sold it. Okay, I mean, I was only 10% shareholder, okay. So the guy who owned it sold it and I got 10%, and then I started a design business.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you're still doing the design thing.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm still doing the same job now, but I don't think it's going to be many more. It's 20 something years I've been doing it, so I think days are numbered, because the company I work for has a lot of competition with China now and I guess with all the AI stuff now you know, becoming more yeah, you know AI does it's, it's there, but AI isn't producing stuff of the quality needed for the work I do, because I do big screen stuff for shows etc.
Speaker 3:Okay, and and basically if you use AI you can get really nice anything on a mobile phone and even on your computer screen.
Speaker 1:But when it goes big.
Speaker 3:You see all the imperfections and you see like something's out of focus behind, but when the front is in focus and then behind that is in focus. So it can be a good starter point, but then you have to still work on it very hard, yeah, but honestly, the speed that AI has got to level it is now I don't think it'd be long before they can do what I'm doing. Which is why I'm starting to think, yeah, maybe I've had that job kind of it's got a life of maybe two years, one year.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think, not only in design, I think in many other occupations soon will go to the AI. This is why we still always have to invent ourselves.
Speaker 3:And you know it's sad, okay, I basically grew up listening to groups that that the whole talent of a rock group was a singer, with nothing really helping him. Playing the guitar, playing playing an instrument yeah, very boring his soul into that music, right, yeah, putting his soul into music. And and you connected with the singer, you you were thinking what was he thinking when he said that, when he read that lyric? When he and I watch ai now on on, you know you get links all the time, yeah, of course, and I I've got this horrible feeling that the creativity is is dying, basically, and I I kind of pray would go back. I wish it could be reversed.
Speaker 1:I think at a certain point maybe there will be some laws that will stop it yes, but internationally nobody can apply laws.
Speaker 1:It's just now do you remember a few years ago, they took three, three dead artists I don't remember the third one, but I know for sure the first one was Kurt Cobain, the second one was Jimi Hendrix and I don't remember the third one and they gave all the previous songs and everything to AI and told them create a song by him. Do you remember that? Well, I totally believe it, and it was, by the way, some of them went to the top of the billboards, one of their songs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because a second problem and a thing that turned me off in the music scene is I basically met some people that were quite happy in the music scene and they said most of their music is now written for 15 to 16-year-olds. Yeah, because they're the ones that go out and buy and spend the money. Yeah, and so everyone's kind of compromised and come to a certain level. It doesn't need to make a hit, one hit. It doesn't need to be catchy.
Speaker 1:It needs to be as you said. The audience needs to be the 15 or 16 year old people, and that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and at the same time with movies.
Speaker 1:The movie industry is so fucking shit now.
Speaker 3:Yeah and I just it would be lovely if you could go back to the days where everything was talent and even when you listen to singles in the old days, groups could hold down, say I'm not going to commercialize it, I'm going to write the music I want to write. I'm gonna do it the way I want to do it.
Speaker 1:The some of them, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going back to Pink Floyd and okay, and the early Queen, before Queen were famous, but it was. It was different then. I think it was different.
Speaker 1:They wanted to do something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that that is true to themselves, exactly, yeah yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, it's gone. But I think part of the discussion is not right and I'll tell you why. You could always, at any point of time, you could go back and ask people oh, were the old days better? And they will say, yeah, yeah, yeah, the old days were better, because we have a sense of nostalgia, you know, and stuff like that. So I get what you are saying and I know we are at the verge of a revolution, an AI revolution, I know that, but still, I think always we will look at the old days and say they were better.
Speaker 3:It's a very good point and as growing up, you know, now I'm thinking these things. I think my mommy said to me or my grandma would say the same things I'm saying, and I always believed that with them that the old days weren't better. They just it's nostalgic. But I spend a lot of time, ok, so if I've got work to do in the condo, I put a movie on in the background when I'm working. And I've found now I'm watching the 50s black and white moves in America and England. Okay, and I'm watching them, thinking that was a better life. People were kinder to each other, there weren't these constant mobile phones and if you did something it was special.
Speaker 1:I do agree with that. Yeah, I agree that creativity is dead. Okay, yes, do agree with that. Yeah, I agree that creativity is dead. Okay, yes, I agree about that. But our life, um, like you couldn't say that our life isn't better right now. We are living longer, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean yes yeah, the, the, especially if you look at the, the, how they say that all the medicine stuff and everything. It went to a point that you can almost queue, and this is almost right. And look, for example, at HIV people that get HIV now no problem, one tablet a day and no worries.
Speaker 3:I think you're totally right and that's why I stopped at the 50s, because when you go back to further, like the treatments that they had and whatever else were I mean I mean yes lobotomy and stuff like that for a headache yeah that's right.
Speaker 3:But but so I see it think it's making society sick, in the same way that a child could have everything he wanted all the time. It's not good for himself, and it's more that healthcare is brilliant, the fact that here in Pattaya you can do anything you want to do, any time of day, any time of night. Pattaya, it was like that for the last 30 years, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, true, but it was like that for the last 30 years, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, true, true, but it's still the case. You can order Chinese food, indian food.
Speaker 1:You can use all the apps Grab or whatnot and just order For now.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, you can watch MediNighty if you like, or you can watch Formula 1 at 8. It's like society has become so instant and available that nothing's really that special because you can do it. And the thing I like in the old movies is that they took a day in the park and they kind of looked forward to it. They made a picnic bag, the kids came along and they actually played sports with a ball or something like that.
Speaker 1:I would agree that it was simpler. It was much more simple back then.
Speaker 3:I think it's value is the word that I think is missing today.
Speaker 1:I get that because I had a discussion with my friend the other day and he said something that I thought was very smart that right now, almost let's say 90% of the people in the world have all the available information in the palm of their hands. Right Right now. You just take your phone, you can find whatever you want, and people still watch fucking TikTok and stupid stuff they don't want to learn, they don't want. So even when you get access to so much information, you are still distracted by the bullshit. Yes, yes, yes, that's very true. So, yeah, value is. You're right, we valued more. We valued information more. Every house used to head you maybe you remember that that huge wall with the encyclopedias right, yeah, yeah, that's right the books.
Speaker 3:I mean, how long is this? I read a book Probably 15, 20 years.
Speaker 1:I don't read books. I listen to them, but just because I have severe ADHD, I don't like to sit down and read, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you see, on the other side, I wouldn't be here If it wasn't for this. You know, they say AI is now, but actually things have been artificially intelligent for a long time. It Things have been artificially intelligent for a long time. It's just now. There's a big wave. Now everyone can do that. It's simpler. Yeah, that's right, it's more available.
Speaker 2:It's just like I gotta say yeah. It's like it just depends on people how to use it. I mean like for AI or electronic new things. It's just like, yeah, it is like a new generation and they made it like glow up and what the point is from me, I see she's younger than us, she's 20 it's interesting to look at.
Speaker 1:I see from it, it's like they made human have life easy like easily more do everything easily with phone, or, you know, like mobile phone electric and applications, especially for people at your age or even younger, that was already born into it. For them, it's obvious. You want something? Oh, I take my huge tablet and I just press three buttons and I will get whatever I need. But is it?
Speaker 2:whatever, I can't say like it depends on the parent how they.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how they raise the children. Yeah, how they raise the children, that's true.
Speaker 3:Because I'm yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:I'm a person like never get spoiled from parent. Okay yeah, so I do everything by my own and I thought, like when I get like very phone, this is very important and I like it to shoot the good way to use it.
Speaker 1:You value the small yeah.
Speaker 2:I use for learn my English language a year, for looking how to do like dancing practice, or about travel around the world, or learning about history from other countries which is very helpful. Yeah, that's pretty good right in in my, in same age, I mean like same age, me 20.
Speaker 1:They do similar like me, but for some of them, some of them yeah, but for new, for the news like um, they are just use it like a normally like, um, have fun with that and yeah, and I think the tiktok, not only the tiktok, the reels, the reels and all that stuff. You know there is stuff called doom scrolling. You heard that phrase before. So doom scrolling is you can see that everywhere, when you see a Thai lady or a Thai man, or even a Farang man just scrolling their phone videos.
Speaker 3:It's called doom scrolling. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good, that's a good name for that and people are stacking those loops.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes because the videos, people reach to the point that when they create content for people, they make it instant with the hooks, something that will hook you immediately for the next 10 seconds. They don't need more than that. Yeah, that's right. That's right, by the way, why? One of the reasons we are not. We chose not to do a video with the podcast because I want people to be able to focus on what we are saying, not how we look like or whatever. I don't like, for example, me and you. We are old, fucks right, but Pim, here is a sexy young lady right and if there was a camera here, no one would listen to us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:This is one of the reasons I chose to do it this way, because I understand that there is an overflow of how do I say that? Of content, that the only reason it exists is to catch you for 10 seconds, without any meaning behind it, without any story behind it.
Speaker 3:That's a straight comment and I think it's easy to receive a podcast by someone listening. You can have it on and do other things. It's good, can I ask?
Speaker 2:about your restaurant. Have you eaten here before? I guess I never tried here before.
Speaker 1:Weren't you our mutual friend here before? Huh, our mutual friend. No, you've never gone here before.
Speaker 2:No, no, I got a recommend from a guy who had to come over to Frame and had some steak. They had a very nice steak.
Speaker 1:Not only steak, by the way. Yeah, not only steak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see this is about like yeah, I don't know how look like inside in the restaurant or the menu, so I can check on phone like Google Maps or yeah yeah, I always.
Speaker 1:By the way, yeah, I get you. I always when I look for another restaurant, a new restaurant, just Google Maps and I see the picture that people post. It's much easier, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, actually that's a good question, because for me in a restaurant, I obviously got my normal job and then having a new restaurant, the first six months was learning about the restaurant trade, you know, because everyone knew a lot more than me, of course. And the thing that I've neglected is social media. I've pretty much, you know, I've got much, you know I've got a Facebook page, but I really have time to go on and do something and I basically looked the other day.
Speaker 1:You mean the Facebook page for the restaurant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I basically looked in the other day and there's 99 unread notifications and the menu on our website needs updating.
Speaker 1:So it's like that side of it.
Speaker 3:I don't think I've got the kind of headspace to do all of that social media and the restaurant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but most of the people that own restaurants hire people for that right. Yes, yeah, All the marketing stuff and everything, Especially, by the way, in Thailand it's extremely cheap to hire someone that will do that for you.
Speaker 3:It's 100% true, but one frustrating thing about me is I'm kind of really attentive to getting everything right in detail and I'm not very good at giving someone a job to do. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:I get that, which I should do, but I'll be more scared. They put something on that didn't reflect how I want to be or how I'd like to be able to perceive the restaurant, and and I I've got to trust more. I mean, obviously, the chefs I trust them, the service ladies downstairs, I trust. It's just really that For me it's step by step. You know, that's true. And even if someone you know I've had a lot of kind of guys come and done videos and then post them on YouTube, they're like the most stressful, worrying moment for me. When you see someone come in with a camera in the restaurant, it's because you're thinking that guy can destroy the restaurant or he can help you yeah.
Speaker 1:But I prefer he just didn't come I understand that you are not the only one that I heard it from, because sometimes it's just a matter of personal taste. You know, the food can be great, but he don't like carrots and for some reason there was carrots in his salad, and now he says oh, this restaurant is shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's how it is for me. You see, that one guy I mean I've been lucky, we've come through unscathed. But if he makes the comments, the power of his comment is so much more than if, like, a customer comes in, he likes it, he tells his friends he doesn't like it, he doesn't come back. That's my ideal setup. That gives me peace of mind. I get that, yeah, but I've been been, honestly, I've been really lucky with with the youtubers, but I've seen all the ones I know about and maybe nice.
Speaker 1:I Think you do go around for some bars and see people and meet people. You're also like Showing yourself what, what, what you are doing there. You know what I mean. For example, the first time we sat together and spoke together, you explained to me the whole trade in one hour. It was amazing, right, and many other people wouldn't do that. They would say oh yeah, I just own a restaurant. Come in there.
Speaker 3:No, you're there you are present.
Speaker 1:I think it's 50% of your success.
Speaker 3:I have to be totally honest with you. This is totally candid. First thing is I'm lucky. I've got a good job that pays my income.
Speaker 1:Yeah of course.
Speaker 3:So the restaurant was never really about making money. Obviously I put a lot of money in and I want it to be in good shape for when my son's 18. So he can have ownership in something and if he doesn't want to do something else, he's got a restaurant. So obviously I don't want to lose money every month. No one wants to keep putting money in something, but I'm not. I've seen it much more like almost like a hobby, but not a hobby, something more professional, Something where I kind of want to see can I do it or can I not do it? Do you know how much pleasure you get when people eat their meal and they say that was excellent? Or you know, with a roast dinner we get so many nice comments back that you just feel better about life. Yeah, I agree, I might be more like the other restaurant owners here because I might back that.
Speaker 1:You just feel better about life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and and okay, you know it's my main job. I agree I might be more like the other restaurant owners here because I might rely on that for a living. More, yeah, um so. So I'm not like a saint or anything, but I just I just honestly feel that I don't have to look at it as a business and and secondly, I'm I'm kind of a loner. So the restaurant I've met a hundred people that I could say are friends now and 20 or 30 are close friends. So it's been good for my life as well, like a home, yeah.
Speaker 2:It kind of feels like home.
Speaker 3:If the people I've met come we do sit down almost like you're in the lounge I cannot count how many times me and the other guys which I cannot mention came to your restaurant just came sat with us.
Speaker 1:We talked like Like friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, we are friends, right.
Speaker 1:But it's giving also the customers the feeling that, hey, this is not just another restaurant. This is like I come here to meet my friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is nice, but I think I'm lucky because, honestly, a lot of restaurants here they rely on the number of people who come in for their income for that month and therefore they've got to be more out there, they've got to be a bit more pushy and whatever else. I think for me I probably worked enough that if I didn't have an expensive girlfriend.
Speaker 2:I could probably live quite well.
Speaker 3:I could probably live quite well on my own, but probably I'll have to keep doing the work because it's my son.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that and I think, first of all, you understand that he made this business in order for his son to have it later. You are a good father. That's amazing. This business in order for his son.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to have it later, that's you are a good father. Yeah, well, that's amazing. Okay, but I had my son at 50, right? So I was 50 years old. That's your only son. Yeah, I would say any year before that I was far too immature. I'd have been a terrible dad, okay, but but I got to the point. I'm mature enough to be a dad at 50. And we moved to Thailand. He was born in England. He's half Thai. He was born in England. We moved to Thailand because I'm not that good at admin and all the kind of jobs and commitments and things. So Thailand the family are much better for taking care of a child and helping you than in England. So I would say here, the family values here are absolutely superb and they've gone in our, I think, in our culture. We love our parents more than us. But everyone lives a bit of a selfish life in England. I think children don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but another thing that I heard a few days ago that was very interesting. Thailand doesn't have social security, so their social security is the children. Yes, and there's almost like a contract.
Speaker 3:There's almost like I've looked after you, so you have to look after me, but then I think you're only talking money. See, the kind of thing I see is girls going back to their home and telling their mom to lie down and basically give them a massage, massaging their feet. They do things that are just love, love and care, that are stronger. I think in your country probably it's more similar to Thailand because of the faith and the yeah, it depends.
Speaker 1:But yeah, In Israel we do have very strong family values. Yeah, sometimes You-hmm.
Speaker 3:Sometimes you know England. You could live like a mile away from your parents and go and see them once every fortnight or whatever, oh no, no, you're not flying in Israel.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, yeah, they will just come knock on your door.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Come to dinner, yeah.
Speaker 2:For Thai it is like before the family. They were really careful about children. You know about me. I'm 16, 17. For your country young adults can go work, can do part-time job, but in Thailand it's like 18. You can't do part-time. Before that you're a child Like 18, you're a young adult and 20, you're an adult.
Speaker 3:Okay, but I do see in Thailand children help with the. If you go to the country, for instance, maybe they're farming or something, and I do see children at 14 are doing a lot of the tasks to help the family with the things.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 3:And, by the way, I think there's nothing wrong with that, because it's not like forced labor or something, of course. It's nice, they're learning a trade, Learning a trade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. But one more thing. Sorry to cut you, but I want to remind you that there is something that the Thais do that will never, ever go easy in Western countries. So many of the Thai ladies have a baby, but they want to keep work what they do they give the baby to the grandmother.
Speaker 3:Right, they don't raise their own children. That's right, very common, but that's economic.
Speaker 1:I understand that, but it will never Like when I was with my wife before and we wanted to have children. We talked about it. She said I told her listen, we are not ready financially and I think we need to wait. She said no problem, we'll have a child in Israel and we'll ship it. This is what he said. We will ship it to Thailand for my parents to take care of it. I said no, what are you talking about? No, it's not. And then she said no, it's normal.
Speaker 2:No, it's normal. Yeah, I can say from Thai people. It's just like they are still focused on the time they can have children Like I am.
Speaker 1:it's really like mom had me when I was just 21, 20, something like that.
Speaker 2:And my family is poor, so what her can do? Her has to leave home. Keep working yeah keep working, but her cannot take care of me because her doesn't have time enough, so that's why I take the parent. But for some it's hard. Like you said, some people take children to grandparents to take care of them because, they need to you know, like do To provide yeah.
Speaker 3:I get that, but for a restaurant to hear such a phrase.
Speaker 1:Let's ship our child to another country for our.
Speaker 3:It's insanity, you know yeah but okay, child to another country for our, it's insanity, you know.
Speaker 3:ok, so this is my own from girls I met here and talked about things I would say like in Patea, for instance. Ok, 7 out of 10 girls that have a child that is staying with their family desperately want to be with that child. But there are the 3 out of 10 that love the scene here, love it all, and they're quite happy with the convenience of not having to look with that child. Oh, of course, but there are the three out of ten that love the scene, love it all, and they're quite happy with the convenience of not having to look after each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree and that surprised me, because I think that's totally against the culture here and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but people tend, especially in this city, to get very selfish very quickly.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Especially the girls that walk the bars or the go-go's. They see the money, they know the income, they like the party scenes right. Some of them are unfortunately getting hooked on drugs or getting addicted to alcohol.
Speaker 3:Well, it's hard not to get addicted to alcohol if you're working there because you're getting paid to drink, and if you don't drink, I think that eight, nine, ten hours, wherever you were, it must be very long.
Speaker 1:it is so you're probably tempted to have more drinks and then eventually it takes over I agree, but you can always put a bit more water inside the drink and make sure well, well, I think, I think a lot of people do that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean, but you, you don't really drink, do you so?
Speaker 1:I drink. Well, when I'm back home in israel, I almost never drink, maybe one bit a month, maybe. Here I drink almost every day, but not too much. Yeah, you know, I try to drink maybe three or four drinks a day maybe. Normally I just drink soda water. You know that. I see, yeah, yeah, but we both well, the three of us know bar owners and people that work in the bars that get really addicted to alcohol and they got the shakes when they don't drink, yeah, and stuff like that. But I think the world, some of them even were alcoholics before they just said, oh, I like to drink, I'll open a bottle. You know, it's part of that also.
Speaker 3:You know how I see it. Are you a drinker, by the way? No, no, no Okay. So before I came to Ireland, I never drank, never, never drank, no Okay. I came here and I had problems. I was a bit broken hearted about a girl and I found that when I'm really down, if I went out and had a few drinks, just got a bit like slightly drunk, then all the stresses in my life went and obviously the next day you wake up hangover and they come back. But I think a lot of the girls working here they're very stressed about their mum saying I need another 4000 baht for this. There's other stresses the room where we and I think there's an artificial comfort in being drunk.
Speaker 1:And it starts with that. I will mix those two together.
Speaker 2:I can say it from myself I'm not a person who really likes to drink and yeah.
Speaker 1:But when you walk in the bar, you to drink and yeah.
Speaker 2:I have to, but you can see and. I laughs after that, you know, like the last yeah yesterday, last night I hang out with him. This is first around like two. I left the bar and after I left and I'm not hanging out at night.
Speaker 1:I'm doesn't drink any alcohol. You are the exceptions, right? Most of the people that I know, even on the day off and talking about ladies also they still drink, yeah well yeah, I mean every girl from Okay I like a serious relationship with ladies.
Speaker 3:I've had okay I like a serious relationship with ladies. I've had four girlfriends since I first came here.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's say one every five years. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm like. Yeah, it is that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:I mean, the current one is seven years, okay, but basically the last two they would go, they'd have a drink, and if they're having a drink I'd drink with them. And then it gets to 11, 12 o'clock and I think, well, let's go back home now. And then they've got another bar to go to and they drink more. And then they're at 4 or 5 o'clock, coming back and Peace, completely peace, sleeping, yeah, sleeping. You have to carry them back to the room and it's not really the kind of life that I want from you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 3:And I'm kind of you know if you love someone you don't want to see him in that situation and you accept things that maybe you wouldn't accept if you knew the first day you met. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but.
Speaker 3:And I've tried the thing of drinking with her just to see whether that works, but I just if I get ill I can't do it. So no, just to see whether that works, but I just if I get ill I can't do it. So now I'm like you. I basically only drink with a friend.
Speaker 2:In social situations, so like not like many times, but just for social, for fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually for fun, not for in order to feel better. Just sometimes grab a beer or whatever For relax, yeah, so this is what, what, but it's very I prefer.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the mosque, I guess it's like not Not only lady, lady boy also, and man also Thai people I can't say like in work people, I mean like work part, they all have money, right, they have money. And some people doesn't have any problem with money in the family. Some people have, like me, had, like me, so it's just so I'm trying to, you know, like spend all night and you know, pay a lot of money for drink and and realize like I'm pay for it all money. So how about my, what about your family?
Speaker 2:yeah, you're spending all your money on your dreams yeah, so that that is, that is just learning me, and realize like, oh, there's this, that is not good to do, you know, and I'm I'm curious, like how you guys like can drink every night. And well, that's a question for me, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, like I used to used to wake up in the early index so, first of all, it depends some, some guys and I can speak for myself. I know my limit, so at a certain point after drinking a few, I would say okay, that's enough for me, I feel drunk enough in order that I don't need more. Yes, right, and I don't want to feel bad, as you said. I don't want to feel ill and puking and throwing up or stuff like that, you know, I just want to feel tipsy.
Speaker 3:I don't know. That's the world right. See, you and me have got that switch, and I've got it because you actually feel worse, so you stop, yeah. But a lot of the girls say they don't have that switch. The guys also.
Speaker 1:Come on, I've seen guys throwing up on the street every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true, yeah. So for young girls I can say they're newbie, they just came here, they're excited, they are you know really, first time they are're free, they can do whatever they want. They excited and gotta like I'm free, you know I'm free and I can do whatever I want. So I thought like for next, maybe like like me, I stay for a couple years, maybe three or four years. After that they're gonna realize like who? Older than me, like around 30, 40, they work in a bar.
Speaker 2:They realize 30, 40 if you realize that 30, 40 after you start drinking at 20, that's too late. You're already Alcoholic, yeah, yeah. So they realize around, say my age before, so they know everything in Pattaya, but they doesn't gonna tell you what you could do, what you, but I Understand why they did that because they want Yourself, I said.
Speaker 1:I think it's not only they want you to learn. I think some of the people here are extremely selfish and they would like to see you go down the same road, they went they don't care, they would be happy to see you getting drunk and wasting all your money because they did that before, yeah, so like to see, if people like to see people new I mean like young people going down and then get.
Speaker 2:I think that is not not really nice to do. Of course it's a place for myself. I, you know like I get some orders. They tell me. You know like they get they teach me about like you have to be better and you know you're still young, yeah but you got lucky.
Speaker 1:I tell you something you got lucky because I know where you work. Your last work was right and some of the people there are extremely good people, right? You know where I'm talking. We can say the name by the way it used to be Delirious, right and the people that work in Delirious. Some of them are extremely nice people, extremely caring, and you get lucky. But some people don't have that luck and they find themselves in other bars which are not named.
Speaker 1:And the only thing the ladies do oh you're not okay, you don't have customers which are not named, and the only thing the ladies do oh, you're not. Okay, you're not a customer.
Speaker 2:Come on, let's do yabba together, you know, and that's a problem, yeah, yeah, I gotta say, like I saw you first time, I doesn't know who are you. You know, and yeah, you tell me my, he's the owner of flame. And then I'm like really, I see him many times, but yeah, you saw him in the bow many times yeah not not many, but nobody in the bar.
Speaker 1:In the bar, yeah, she met you before in the bar, but I don't know who you are.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's about like I'm not coming to the people and I see them and I see I see you and you can devour drinks and relax you out and I feel like, okay, so you're a friend of yeah, yeah, I'm doesn't know you the owner of flame and to my Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, actually I'm also what name? But yeah, mike told me.
Speaker 3:Now, she's starstruck. No, no, no, it's nothing. Yeah, I mean actually, obviously I won't name, but he was one of the first customers after I opened, very quiet, and I was very nervous and Because when you first open you're worried about every table, everything, and I was just.
Speaker 3:You're worried about every table, everything and and I was just thinking, yeah, everything, everything. And he didn't really say much. But then he kept coming back and after we had a chat and he's just such a nice, reassuring person, he's got the most decent heart and if you work for him, wow Him and the rest of the stuff.
Speaker 1:But I would like to ask you a question about the restaurant. If we talk about the subject again, what was the biggest mistake you did when you just opened? Like if I would open a restaurant tomorrow, what would you recommend me? Don't do that. Whatever you do, don't do that.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's a good question. I have to think about it. Probably I should have been more confident. Okay, because I have a problem now that I pretty much rely so much on the chef and the waitress manager to run the restaurant and do it right, because I knew nothing and that's created a problem now that, as I've had the restaurant, what I've realized is the way that they operate is good, but it's kind of average Okay, and if I want to improve things I'm permanently having to have fights, not like arguments, but I get like tuts. They don't buy in to the improvements of the restaurant.
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 3:It's only very comfortable for them right. Yeah, yeah. But also I put them in a position where they probably felt more like powerful than I'd like to be now, only because my peace of mind is customers leaving happy and Thais don't really like to talk to customers. So to get feedback, to get understanding, most of the time I just go and talk to customers myself and then a lot of the time I go back to the kitchen and I say I have to stop you for a second.
Speaker 1:You're right that ties don't like speak with customers, but your customers are not eyes. Most of them are foreigners. Yeah, the foreigners also, except expect like maybe the owner will come say hello because it's very common.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true, I'll come back to that, but okay, so if I was told something's wrong with the food, first of all you've got to make your own judgment is that correct or not? And if you hear something a couple of times, then you definitely think it's broken. But I would go in the kitchen and because he'd worked 10 years for a steak restaurant and done it a certain way he would, he wouldn't accept. He would accept what I'm saying until I and he said, like, well, it's only one customer and that whole mentality is nothing that I can buy into, because I want every customer to leave happy and I do believe people say you can't make everyone happy, but I tend to think there probably is a ground in the middle where most people are happy If you go too extreme. Anyway, so, coming back to your tie thing, if I go up north to see my girlfriend, then I basically looked into Google when I was up north and there were two one-star reviews and it's because my manager was smug when she dealt with a customer problem, so both people on the table gave one sort of review.
Speaker 3:Now, that to me, if you're talking about mistakes or regret, allowing her to be in a position where for me to change that now I have to go through a lot of fight and pain. But I have changed. I basically found a young lady that's kind of front of the house, but I've got a big problem now that she's perfect. She's polite, she's caring, she's interested in what people say, she wants everyone to be happy. But because I've stepped over the kind of boundary with my manager, she won't accept her and she's making her life difficult. I'm not in a position I might have to lose my in-house manager or this girl and I feel loyalty to my in-house manager because she was there at the start and she got me there. But I don't really know how to fix this one and I've asked her. She brought money. I've paid her some money but she won't change. She won't let this girl feel welcome.
Speaker 1:And ever since this girl started.
Speaker 3:the feedback from customers has been much better, so it's something to deal with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think this is is and I'll give you a different perspective. In many big successful companies, you got more than one.
Speaker 3:CEO right.
Speaker 1:You got financial. Ceo. I don't remember all the names, but you got four, five, six, which are all in the same position, and when you place them in the same position, they're equal, and then they cannot argue. They both have the same power.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, she is basically head of the floor. Yeah, I get it, and the chef is my head chef is head of the kitchen area, and so it's just very difficult. And I'll be honest with you. I know what she's like. I know what she's like. She's brilliant at admin, she's a nice lady, but she cannot communicate with customers the way that a restaurant of ours should be communicating, and I would love her to accept 95% of what she did is perfect and she can't do that 5%. But what I'm finding is that the more I try and keep her waiting that 5%, the more she wants to prove she can do it and fights me.
Speaker 1:Some people are not built for that, you know? No exactly. I mean, I can't sing, I'm not a salesman.
Speaker 3:I've got a stutter and I avoid, like I'm doing this for you, but I avoid these things.
Speaker 1:And I thank you for that.
Speaker 3:No, no, no I mean I'm very happy with her, but I can't get her to accept that. And I'll tell you I've had two customers that have been here quite a few times that have sent me a message saying David, you know, I came to the restaurant, the restaurant's quite full. I sat in the seat waiting to be dealt with and your manager came over and said you can't sit there.
Speaker 2:Just that, yeah, he said that's so rude.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And he had a bit of a go at me and said you know you've got to sort out your customer care. I said, yeah, I'm really sorry, I know we've got a problem with this. And he said, no, in my business you sack her. And I said, well, I've got loyalty to her, I can't do a second, but I need to deal with it. And he said, okay, I'll block you. And I've had that with two people that were friends here at the restaurant because of her and I need. I'm dealing with it. But that's my most stressful thing when I come here right now, because the food in fact the food is one of the easiest things to get right if you go to a restaurant?
Speaker 1:a restaurant, yeah, but I think also that also took you time to reach oh yeah it took six months at least. Yeah, and you're still always changing.
Speaker 3:I know we spoke about that and with Thai staff you probably know this you change something, they do it and then after a month they revert back to the old way. So you've got to be on top of it. But I would say the food side is much easier than the staff side. Okay, and actually times don't really Okay. So if you've lived your whole life, you don't know how service is in the States and Americans get the best level of service in a restaurant they pay for it, they give big tips over us. But best level of service in a restaurant, they pay for it, they give big tips over us, but they're used to that. So if someone walks over without a smile, without seeming that interested, it puts them in a bad mood straight away and then if you get a problem, you get a much bigger problem.
Speaker 3:And this Amy, this girl that I've employed. She's doing a brilliant job on that and the other girls have improved with her. But I have this girl I've employed, she's doing a brilliant job on that and the other girls have improved with her. But I have to deal with this problem.
Speaker 2:Let's see again what is this. It is every about eating like food or drinks or whatever. Is like time to finish understand like um some kind of people. Okay, I can't say it.
Speaker 1:I had experience from um chicken crew normally so so, yeah, some time they take like for food they made from last days, but they had to keep it and do for next day, okay, but it depends on what food you are making and, of course, every restaurant has something they know, oh, I can keep in the fridge for the next day because it's okay, and something I cannot. But it very depends on what you cook. For example, if you had a sushi restaurant, oh no, you cannot do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's very logistical. Especially, we've got 70 items on the menu. So it is very important the way you handle, the way you store, the way you recognize when you've got a period of time you can sell. So it goes to waste and that's tricky as well. So I would say the menu is the easiest bit. Maybe the operational side is a little bit more difficult. The staff is the most difficult thing.
Speaker 1:You know, I was always wondering when you have such a big and rich menu as you have in your restaurant, how much product do you lose every day? Because I guess no one orders everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, okay. You try, and that's the problem when you first open. If you have a big menu, when you first open you don't have customers, you don't know what's going to sell, you don't know how much to take out, and as you trade you become more aware of what your average sales of certain things are. So you know roughly how much to prepare and what to buy in, et cetera.
Speaker 1:But I would say, starting off, that's really difficult and sometimes you have to start with big menu, right? You cannot?
Speaker 3:just say oh, I have three kinds of steaks in fact, I don't know if it's worked or not, but when I started this, I said to myself what do I look for in here, and I personally like to have a girlfriend. I like to myself what do I look for in here, and I personally like to have a girlfriend? I like to go somewhere that's not like expensive, romantic, but a little bit more romantic, a little bit nicer environment, your place looks gorgeous.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you designed it, but it's amazing, thank you yeah, but it's still like it's or something. It's kind of like the first time I came to your restaurant with a friend of mine before I knew you. He said and he's an English guy he said this is the most posh place I've ever seen. Oh, that's nice, and I didn't know what posh means. You have to explain it to me, right, because I don't know the slang over there, but it just gorgeous it's beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, it's very nice. You said that, but for me, for this area which you know, if you've got to rest on, most of your customers come to this area.
Speaker 1:Again, we are talking about some soy linky. Yeah, the whole soy bakao region.
Speaker 3:And the second, sorry, just to come back. Yeah, so I had that in my mind to make it a place that you would want to take a girlfriend. Yeah, because I'd actually struggled before when I had a girlfriend. I want to go out in a sober cow and there was no restaurant where I felt like it's slightly romantic to sit with her. So I had that in my mind and I also knew that when I go to a restaurant, I like lots of choice, not because of me, but when I go to a restaurant, I like lots of choice, not because of me, but when you go with a Thai lady, so often you find you like something but they don't like anything on the menu.
Speaker 1:Most of the times, I just have to compromise on a place that sells both foreigners and Thai food, but this is my experience, and then if you go with friends, there's even more.
Speaker 3:So choice, I always felt, is a really good thing to have in a restaurant. Yeah, I've been all my life. I've been a consumer Me neither but the problem with choice. And, funny enough, when I first, before I, opened one of the top restauranteurs here, he called me and said David, if that's your menu, take my advice, don't do it. You can't have that many items on the menu. He said it in a nice way, but he's like the top of fine dining, right. So he couldn't keep the very high top level of fine dining with a kind of mess thing. But we've kind of I think we found a way of getting close to fine dining, but but being able to put out lots of different meals and plus, yeah, also compared to those high-end restaurants.
Speaker 1:Right, your prices are yeah, oh great, right yeah thank you I think you're right in the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean again. I'm just trying to make an honest profit that can pay the wages, pay the electric and hopefully at the end of the year have some profit.
Speaker 1:I remember a few years ago I came here to Pattaya and me and a few other guys went to a restaurant that I will not name, but it's in the small plaza in Soy Dayana. I will not name the restaurant, and I wasn't paying for that meal because one of the guys said he will pay for everyone. We went there. We were like five people. The guys said he will pay for everyone. We went there. We were like five people. I think the bill was about 13,000 or 15,000 baht and just one dish, some side dish and a drink. That's it. It's so expensive sometimes.
Speaker 1:And then you go to a restaurant like yours or other restaurants that I spoke about before and the prices are down to earth us. I know how much they make.
Speaker 3:I think that's a good, it's a good expression. Yeah, but you know, obviously I do feel we do better quality. So compared to the like, the, the average kind of kind of Steakhouse is here Steakhouse is here.
Speaker 3:No, I don't really mean that I mean there's loads of average restaurants in this area, absolutely loads. So if I do a restaurant for instance if I do a 495, I'm more expensive than probably 70-80% of people do it cheaper than a 495. But they don't use the same beef, they don't put as much on the plate, they don't spend as much on the vegetables and the quality of everything on the plate.
Speaker 1:And, as you said, the restaurant also looks less it doesn't look like a place you want to take someone to a date.
Speaker 3:Yes, and it also may be air-conditioned. Yeah, of course that's very important, but that was risky because that's the first time I've actually set something where the price knowing the price was high in the competition. But that's been the most successful thing because that thing has changed the restaurant doing a roast dinner on Sunday, because so many people come and say I've finally found a roast dinner that is the quality that I've had at home, or I, like you, mean the Sunday roast and then they basically are totally happy with the price, recommending it. And I feel like you shouldn't be tempted to be the cheapest and then cut your quality and then you're in with everybody else. You shouldn't be tempted to be the cheapest and then cut your quality and then you're in with everybody else.
Speaker 3:You shouldn't be the most expensive, because honest. You have to be honest and down to earth, I think yeah. So everything I'm doing now, now I think that's the place to be where the quality is obviously worth the extra money, a little bit like if you bought a BMW where it's not the best car in the world, but you know you can be confident. Yeah, where, where?
Speaker 2:it's not the best car in the world, but but you know you can be confident, yeah. So, like I said, I everything what we do. So if you do from feeling, you do from Heart, you have a heart and honest, so yeah, it's gonna be work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know you're right as well, because if you do really suffer when you let, well, because if you do really suffer when you let someone down, if you do really feel elated when someone gets it right and I know it's easy for me to say, but if you're not doing it for the financial gain primarily, then I think that does come across when you do it. Also, the staff, because you know I'm always letting my staff off things and giving them extra money and things.
Speaker 2:It's like a.
Speaker 3:It's with them as well. It comes across in the vibe Of course, what you give, you get back always.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I worked in a restaurant before I'm being a staff in the restaurant. And I have my noodle shop about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I make food, I do food shop also, so my shop is like a nearby school, young school, and you know, like every every afternoon around like 3 or 4 o'clock they are finished starting and go back home, right yeah so many children in the school I can say like around, like almost every, everyone in school, every student that come up to my shop and you know like they take food, they I can't finish all my noodle and other other food like in the one day, but I I doesn't know what is going on because my mom did that, remember. She made everything for them and here's it like.
Speaker 2:And yet for food for children, you know just five but Tim, but just a little and but yeah everyone like children, many children coming up and they say hi to my mom, say hi to me it's heartwarming yeah but I can't sit like, I can't feel like from mom and mom say, oh, wait to me, like if we do from feelings and you do from heart, doesn't matter if you do for a concept, but it's this delicious but I feel the effort and even the loving, the fear, yeah that goes back to the a icon.
Speaker 3:So you had the start, was that?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, we're singing you, just yeah, yeah. Anyway, david, first of all, I want to thank you so much for being my, my pleasure and I hope it was fun for you and it was fun for me.
Speaker 3:It was an interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:And another thing I want to again recommend everyone that loves good steakhouse and Sunday roast. The menu is so bigger than that, so just check it out. It's called the Flame in Soylinki. Again, just give it a try. Yeah, and again on another thing, I want to thank our listeners. Thank you for the support. We really appreciate what you did for us the last week and, yeah, we, we will do our best to improve on the sound points and everything. And again, if, if you want to support us, there is a link in the show notes, in every way, it doesn't matter if you're Spotify, youtube, there is a link for support, and even just clicking the share button is amazing, the like button is amazing. So thank you guys. Bim. Any closing words?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for our listener and thank you for David. I'm very nice to see you today it's first, it's the first time me and you talk each other because we see we see each other before we never talk together. It's first time.
Speaker 1:I'm very happy to see you and yeah by the way, she's eating with us today.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's the first time. Yeah, is it? 8?
Speaker 3:o'clock yeah, I was panicking, I was thinking. David, thank you very much thank you, so much thank you okay, bye, bye, bye, bye.