My Thai Wife
Are you intrested in Thailand and the thai culture?
Are you a frequent vistior to Pattaya and phuket?
Do you want to hear intresting sexy stories about those places?
Or maybe you are looking to hear dating and travel advices?
Do you have intrest in Ladyboys or what is it like being with one?
You Came To The Right Podcast!!
Join Pim and Mike while they discuss all those things, and much more!!!
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mythaiwifepod@gmail.com
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My Thai Wife
Minnie's Legacy: Love, Loss, Mental Health and Suicide
Behind the neon lights and vibrant nightlife of Pattaya lies a story rarely told – one of connection, loss, and the silent mental health crisis affecting Thailand's ladyboy community. This deeply moving conversation features John, a British expat who has been visiting Thailand for 24 years before finally making it his home.
John takes us through his journey from casual tourist to someone deeply embedded in Thailand's complex social landscape. With remarkable candor, he shares how his relationships evolved from his seven-year marriage to a Thai woman to his meaningful connections with ladyboys that challenged his own preconceptions. His story provides a nuanced look at cross-cultural relationships that transcend traditional Western gender boundaries.
The heart of this episode centers on John's relationship with Minnie, a ladyboy he met at a bar called The House. Their genuine connection, which lasted about two years, ended amicably, but they remained in contact. When John received the devastating news of Minnie's suicide, it opened his eyes to a tragic reality affecting the community. We explore shocking statistics revealing that up to 27% of ladyboys in Pattaya have attempted suicide, with only 10% receiving any mental health support.
Together with our co-host Pim, who provides valuable insider perspective as a ladyboy herself, we examine the complex factors behind these statistics – from relationship difficulties and HIV stigma to substance abuse and the challenges of aging in a youth-focused industry. Most importantly, we discuss how breaking the silence around mental health struggles could save lives.
The conversation concludes with a powerful message borrowed from MMA fighter Paddy Pimblett: "I'd rather my mate cry on my shoulder than go to his funeral next week." If you're struggling or know someone who might be, this episode offers both understanding and hope. Reach out, speak up, and remember that connection is often the strongest lifeline we have.
R.I.P Minnie
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This episode is dedicated to Mini. Hello everyone and welcome back to my Thai Wife Podcast. I'm Mike and sadly I'm still doing this without my lovely, lovely wife Shunari.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Pim, Nice to see you again. Welcome back to my Thai Wife Podcast. How are you, pim? I'm doing good. How about you? Always good, yeah, always good.
Speaker 1:And we have a very special guest, a very close friend of mine. Again, I don't know him for that long, but we became very good friends recently. And hello, john, how are you? Hello, I'm fine, great to finally have you here. Thank you for having me. I waited for that for at least a few weeks. Thank you for having me, and I think it's going to be a very interesting and emotional podcast. It certainly will be. Yeah, but first can we hear your journey, how you came to Pattaya, and I know, I know now you stay here for 17 years how I come to prepare.
Speaker 3:First time was 24 years ago. Okay, me and my good friend Steve from England, once a year we used to go to a travel agent see where we're going to go. Yeah, I just book up. We've been all around the world Mexico, barbados, ibiza, everywhere.
Speaker 1:So all the main party cities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was 24 years ago. Two friends of mine back in England come over to Thailand for the first time. Okay, they come back. We met up with them for a beer and they said get yourself to Thailand. And that was it so for a beer. And they said get yourself to Thailand. And that was it so for 24 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And in the last 14 months 14?. Oh, I thought it was 17 months, 14. Okay 14 months, I've been decided to move to Pattaya, okay.
Speaker 1:And when the first time you came to Thailand you went straight to Pattaya, or first you to Thailand you went straight to Pattaya, or first you yeah went straight to Pattaya okay yep, so you're one of the smart guys.
Speaker 3:Stayed in a hotel on Beach Road called the.
Speaker 1:Montiel, okay, so you've come in here for a long time. Have you seen anything change through the years. I'm not mean how the city looks, I'm all mean about the attitude.
Speaker 3:No, it's all the I find it all the same Thai people are so friendly and welcoming, yeah.
Speaker 1:The food is great.
Speaker 3:The Thai food is the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as long as you can eat spicy food I can eat very spicy. Oh, my God, I think we need to do a competition one day, me and you. Oh, maybe, I think maybe you win.
Speaker 3:I'll lose she. We need to do a competition one day, me and you.
Speaker 1:Oh, baby, I think maybe you win she's one of the broken ties, you know. The other day we had some dinner and I knew she cannot eat spicy, so I ordered especially the som tam. For me it's spicy isan som tam with the crab and the fermented fish, and for her just some barbecues. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just taste this little bit of papaya salad, yeah, so then I'm like I've got spicy, so then stop. I was like you think you'd like a man, man. But I know you can't, I know you can't do that. You can't take spicy Thai lady not take spicy.
Speaker 1:Thai lady don't like spicy yeah but she likes spicy men, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:That makes up for it, correct.
Speaker 1:So what made you decide to? Okay, fuck it, I want to live here, like I know you're not a young man anymore, right, you're in your 50s, I guess 59.
Speaker 3:Oh, 60 days, 60 days a year. Okay, oh, 60 this year.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, this is why you said fuck it.
Speaker 3:I want to know I've wanted because I was married to a Thai girl. Okay, I first met her. The second year I come to Thailand. Well, I met her the first year, but only in a bar. Second year I come, we got together and that was it and I'm an awesome you've been together, how many years you've been married to. Seven years, seven years because we, yeah. And then we got together, like back to England, back to Thailand.
Speaker 3:She went to England in the end we got our visa, went to Bangkok to the British Embassy, I had an interview and she come back to England for us on a six-month visa, but in within that six months. We got married. So and then she got the marriage visa, so she got permanent leave to remain in and to work. So for the first six months she couldn't work. I had the same.
Speaker 1:I had the same experience with my yeah, my wife.
Speaker 3:So, as soon as she flew to england, she said john, I want. So she said I want to go to college learn more english. English, okay, because when I first met her her English was that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, hello, well, the people, I can't get all of you to know.
Speaker 1:Very, very, very so she was willing to go to college, learn.
Speaker 3:And as soon as she got the visa to stay in England permanent, she got a job. I got her a job like a job, okay, okay. And then you have seven. After seven years, we, yeah, she's on together. No, no, no, no, no. She already had two children, okay, yeah. And we had a house built up in near Udon Thani okay yeah, and eventually just decided yeah, and then we just parted ways.
Speaker 3:After seven years she's still in England. She's as far as I know. I have no contact with her now oh, was it a bad breakup?
Speaker 1:was it a bad breakup? No, no, not really.
Speaker 3:No, it's like a separate and yeah, get life here my life and separate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you saw.
Speaker 1:So you thought to yourself okay, now I'm single, I'm going to make the same mistakes over again.
Speaker 2:We had too many mistakes in life.
Speaker 3:And then when I decided to move out here, well, I wanted to move a few years ago, but I lost my mom 15, 16 years ago, okay, and so I moved in with my dad and I said to my family I said look, when that dies, I'm moving. Okay, you tie that so that that was four years ago. This year my dad passed away. How old was he? 88.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good age. Yeah, okay. Then you just said you waited two years.
Speaker 3:I waited two years, because we waited two years and then Okay, so because we sold the house and everything.
Speaker 1:But you still kept on coming here every year. Yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, still kept coming over.
Speaker 2:For like your holiday.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd come over for three weeks.
Speaker 2:Oh, three weeks.
Speaker 3:Yeah normally three weeks in April and then again in October.
Speaker 1:Okay, I see Three weeks is a good amount of time. It's not too much that you feel like overwhelmed, and it's not… Too short? Yeah, too short that you feel.
Speaker 2:oh, I haven't did all I wanted. Three weeks is the sweet spot, I think. Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty good holiday.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sometimes two weeks, because well, I've been over here for two weeks before and I think I could do with another week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not enough. It's not good enough.
Speaker 3:Then before you come over for say a month and anything, I'm skiing too much now because you're out every night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see, and I know I asked this before, but, like, of course, many things have changed in Pattaya and Thailand in the recent 20 years. One of the things that changes is the prices, right? So I guess 24 years ago you used to bring only, let's say, 1,000 pounds and just give an example.
Speaker 3:Now we have to bring double that 20-something years years ago, when I first came here, I was getting 80 baht to 1 pound. Now it's 44, so nearly almost half.
Speaker 1:Ok. I remember the 20 expats when it went below 5 they were raging like yeah, yeah so yeah, it's hard for them.
Speaker 2:I hear like, I hear like, uh, before it's just like if who had a boyfriend from another country, like a foreign man, you know, then they, they gotta look like very, very rich. Because I'm for.
Speaker 1:The rate was very. Yeah, the rate yeah, it was better.
Speaker 2:And they like make house easy yeah.
Speaker 3:I say my house I had built up near Udon's. That cost me about £13,000, 20. Which is 20 years ago.
Speaker 1:Which is nothing, 21, 22 years ago, and I guess it's a proper house.
Speaker 3:It's four bedrooms, yeah, two en-suite.
Speaker 1:With the land, with everything.
Speaker 3:No, was she on the land. My old wife already had the land, Okay what her uncle gave to her. So luckily enough, we didn't have to buy the land.
Speaker 1:Okay and well, I met you at our mutual friend's bar, which I cannot say his name due to his request, but we are talking about Delirious Bar, which is a very known, if not the most known, ladyboy bar in.
Speaker 3:Pattaya Certainly is.
Speaker 1:So when you started, like Ladyboys.
Speaker 3:It would be eight years ago. I was staying down in Suite A in a hotel. In Suite A Me and my friend we come out of the hotel to go to a bar down Beach Road and when we walked out there was a girl pulled up on a motorbike.
Speaker 1:We talked about the Flipper Lodge. Yes, of course the Flipper Lodge, of course the Flipper Lodge.
Speaker 3:Anyway, there was a bar opposite called the Beehive Bar Okay, which is not there no more, it's been knocked down. We come out of there and a girl was just parking her motorbike up and she said, oh, you want a taxi. I went no, no, no, we're just going to a bar down here. And then we get to the bar. I said to my friend, I said what a beautiful lady. I said we'll have a few drinks here and we go back to that bar, okay, and that was it, and I didn't realize it. She was amazing Because we only had a little interaction for a minute, as we both can you know like how look beauty from ladyboy that time, but now how different oh, that's a good question if the style changed yeah, like at that time, is it have a lot of feminin more than this time?
Speaker 3:Yeah now a lot, a lot prettier Because of the surgeries, I think because of surgery, surgery and stuff, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:Because, as you said before, it was more like feminine boys, right, yeah, yes, yes, like I don't want to say femboys because it's cringe, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly, yeah, okay, yeah so now everyone just get their tits that was it we. I spent the rest of my holiday with her, and do you have any thoughts about what am I?
Speaker 2:doing, or it was just natural for you. You liked her, you don't care a person.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think that's the way to look at it, right, it's a person, it doesn't mean anything about you or about her. Okay, and the next time you just said no more woman Like that.
Speaker 2:how long, how long do you spend time in her? The rest of the holiday. Yeah, the rest of the holiday.
Speaker 3:I flew back home and now I think the next year I come out. We still contact each other every day and I went back. We went up to Sarin. She was from. Sarin, so we went up to see her family for a week and then come back to Pattaya for a week. I flew back home and then come back to Pattaya for a week. I flew back home and then later on that year come back over here, borrowed a brother's car.
Speaker 1:We drove to Surin, spent time with the family it's like a close together, like a family you've not been like in a relationship like boyfriend and girlfriend, right, yeah, and how like your friends reacted to that.
Speaker 3:Oh, they don't give a fuck. No, they with you. I used to get a bit of a you know a bit of a bite, you know, not massively you know because?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but now in Pattaya it's so open no one really cares about anything anymore. Like the other day we just went to the same bar, Delirious, and there were like two guys like talking between them who love coke more, you know. Oh, I love it. I want to get it down as well. Now I want to get it up my ass, you know. And just two 60 or even older, you old guys just competing each other. Who like who likes cock more so?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, no one really use cock, like with many stuff, like like a mouth ass or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A competition, or a friend Guillaume, for example, every time that he comes to the bar he just to ladyboys and he just pretending to suck both of them. You know, yeah, that's what's fun about it, I think. Also I spoke about before, but I found for myself that, even if you're not into Lady Boys, right, lady Boys bars are much more fun than girly bars.
Speaker 3:I've got friends I drink with down the bar just down here. They're not into Lady Boys, but they say to me John, are you going out tonight? I say, yeah, I. I go to my friend bar, oh, we come, and they love it, even though they're not into ladyboys, but they just like the environment the environment.
Speaker 1:I think it's much more lively. It's much more funny it is do you agree? Have you went to like girly bars and saw the difference?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can say it's just totally different. Like for ladies, they are much care about customer.
Speaker 1:So more money-oriented, more money Money-oriented, okay, money oriented and for for lady boy.
Speaker 2:It's just like I'm being there and much they are doesn't doesn't only for money when, like lady boy they're also enjoying this. Yeah, also it's because we, we are, we are have same, uh similar personal, like ladyboy with ladyboy and we talk each other. It's just like doesn't about money, but much more about yeah, have fun chatting. And yeah yeah, like that, so I can say it's different from from the way now. Yeah, but some some place. Yeah, it's just like some lady. Befriend is easy, but not meaningfully yeah like I agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more money oriented, I find it.
Speaker 3:You go in a lady bar and it's just, I don't know, boring to me. Depends on the bar, depends on the bar.
Speaker 2:Some bars are good, but most of them is just the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you go to ladyboy bars, every bar is so different and so like different characters there, you know yeah, different style yeah, I really appreciate it. I think it's. This is part of the fun. By the way, we sit there almost every day at that bar right yes, and as you said before, many people that even are not into ladyboys are coming just for the experience, just for to see it have a fun, because the ladyboys are shouting and smacking each other. You know, it's funny. It is funny to watch.
Speaker 2:It's like something something happened with nonsense exactly it's nonsense but it is fun. Yeah, I agree. So how about, like, when you see you can't see the bar, ladyboy bar, and then what is it for you? Is it very he likes cock? I mean how, ladyboy, be to you and then make you feel like, oh, they are so nice so welcome.
Speaker 2:So so welcome most of them, yeah so I can't say like ladyboy much the most ladyboy they are friendly. Yeah, of course, good, of course, cause like for me, I'm ladyboy, I know how I am, but for other I know, it's not not about sexual but it's about personal yeah, yeah it depends on personal. So I'm not saying I can't say I'm not saying many ladyboy but because you have different personality, yeah, different personal.
Speaker 2:So yeah, about you guy. You you know like being many bar many, you see many people, so yeah that's why she wants to know if you met someone special as hell.
Speaker 1:This is what she's asking yeah, like who, pretty like.
Speaker 2:Yeah what it's about they are. Act like you guys, but before I mean like yeah, 20 years before, oh you think there was a difference.
Speaker 1:I I don't think there was much difference. Ladyboys were always ladyboys. I think it was just a little bit more close back then it was uh, very, yes, there wasn't.
Speaker 3:obviously soy bocal has hit it off, yeah, but I think that soy Bacal obviously was there, but I don't think so many bars or no.
Speaker 1:no, it's in the recent 10 years.
Speaker 3:Very few, well, very few ladyboy bars back then.
Speaker 1:I know the old ones. The famous old ones were La Bamba in Soy 13.
Speaker 3:13 one yes, yeah 13 one. Soy in sorry, 13?, 13, yes, the house, the house bar.
Speaker 1:That's where I met Minnie, which we'll speak about in a short bit. Yeah, and like I think Well, I'm not sure about it, but I had friends that used to go to Ladyboys bar a few years ago I'm talking 10 or more and there used to be a stigma against Ladyboys that they are stealing money, that they are taking drugs, that they are attacking people, and there are still some stories that you hear about it just because the media like to exaggerate everything. But there used to be a stigma against ladyboys before. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1:I can't be honest, I can't you know what stories I'm talking about? I can't. People said that ladyboys used to yeah, yeah, yeah, like on beach road. I can't. So what's the point? People said that lady was used to women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like on beach road, what they call coconut alley.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They worked there. I've heard lots of stories that they take a lady boy or even a lady back to their room or go back to the lady's room.
Speaker 1:And they would just drag them and steal everything, mainly they would go back to the man's room.
Speaker 3:Of course, a man would fall asleep. Thank you, thank you, thank you, taking everything they can. What can you do? You can't? You go to the police. What would you do with a lady there? You go to the police.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what was he doing with a lady there? Do you aware that there are still some hotels that don't let ladyboys inside?
Speaker 2:And some clubs, especially one club that we are talking against Juju.
Speaker 1:That will not let ladyboys anymore.
Speaker 3:I've not been in because back last year yeah, was it last year they did exactly the same thing for about a month, two months, and then suddenly they started ladyboys back in there, but now they now.
Speaker 1:I haven't set foot in the place yeah, we decided as a group we are not showing there anymore. I think it's not fair. It's not fair for us, the customers, it's not fair for the ladyboys themselves.
Speaker 3:And then when they sit back, like stop ladyboys saying, oh, a ladyboy can go in with a customer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember I went in I was still in there one night from Delirious and a lady boy in there said oh John, can I come with you to get in? I said no problem.
Speaker 1:I've known her a long time.
Speaker 3:We get up to the door. He searches me. He says you're not coming in. I said she's with me. No, she's not coming in. Really's with me. No, she's not coming in, even with customers so now like that would not let her in the nightclubs.
Speaker 1:Always had some nightclubs that were like that, but there are still hotels that don't let ladies in, and some of them actually, and there was some hotel when you went back, took a lady back, they would charge you.
Speaker 3:You would have to pay for a lady to go to. It's a long time ago.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen that for a long time. Now, every time they know you have one friend, you can bring him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:As is. Yeah, because before, is this how many? How do you say, like you had experience with the ladyboys, the money, something like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, anything like bad happened to you with ladyboys before.
Speaker 2:Like you've been drugged or all those things no no, no, oh nothing I hear like for me on this time. I hear some about like guy still ladyboy, or lady also I had.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:A guy still from them. Yeah, yeah, like I'm going to say, I had one time what do you mean A guy steal from? Them. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to say I had one time, Okay, so that time it is from the bar I can call like a short time.
Speaker 1:Okay, my pocket is have like 2005. Wait, let me me understand.
Speaker 2:You go to showtime with the guy, yeah you have money yeah, in my pocket is two thousand five, and then I had time and firstly for taking that. Then I wake up, I look at my pocket is to have a, yeah, but that guy gave me like for 1,500. And I feel like they doesn't sell but they, you know, like yeah, they didn't pay you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they did not pay me. It's still a steal, yeah, yeah, obviously it's still a steal, right? Yeah, yeah, they stole your money and they paid you with your own money. Yeah, what you did about that. So?
Speaker 2:so I'm I did not not do that because I'm just, you know, like short time and had to get rushed to go back to the bar, yeah and then and then, I just you know like realized like he not pay for me, he just take my money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, next time something like this happen, tell John he used to be a hitman. Drag the guy and kill him.
Speaker 3:No more it was only three. Three days ago my good friend I drink with down the bar here. He went to a bar Near walking street, went to see a lady he knows been with her many times before Three days ago. He take her back to his place, his room. He fell asleep. Yeah, no, sorry. He went to the bathroom. He obviously done what he done. He went to the bathroom. He obviously don't know what he done.
Speaker 1:He went to the bathroom, so he didn't work out.
Speaker 3:Went to the bathroom, come back and she said, oh, I'm going to go now. And he thought, oh, she hasn't asked for no money. Yeah, right, so she goes. He goes to bed. He goes to sleep, wakes up in the morning, goes, goes to bed. He goes to sleep, wakes up in the morning, goes to his bag, looks at his wallet two and a half thousand baht been taken. And he thought, oh, that wasn't free then. Yeah, she literally helped herself and went.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was only three days ago. Yeah, but I rarely like. Okay, I will rephrase it. I heard many, many stories okay, I will rephrase it. I heard many, many stories okay, but I don't know anyone that that happened to him, stuff like that. I don't know anyone that had a problem with ladyboys or ladies. This is the first time I know it's still not first-hand right, it's third-hand that a story, that something like that happened.
Speaker 2:But normally it's very rare.
Speaker 1:Like it's very safe here in general. As long as you're not being stupid, nothing wrong will happen to you.
Speaker 3:I mean, he's seen her.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying he was stupid. I'm not saying he was stupid. He's seen her again.
Speaker 3:I had a word with her and said, look, you took, and she agreed she said yeah, and he made her, you know, in front of her friends made her look a bit like that, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, they can be raging sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he made it known that she'd taken. You know, even her friends made it known to her friends that she'd just taken it.
Speaker 1:But, as I said, it's fucked up. I agree, but it happens on, so it's very rare for something like that to happen Most of the girls. You Girls and ladyboys, it doesn't matter. You decide in the price beforehand. They know how much you get. Everything is already settled. You know what you're going to do, not going to do, and that's it. And also, no one, like no one, steals phones anymore and stuff like that, because it's very easy to track right. So yes, yes Money it is dangerous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so back to about your life. Is your girlfriend, ladyboy girlfriend? And get back. I want to know how long with ladyboy oh, the first ladyboy you met how long you stayed?
Speaker 3:with her oh maybe about a year and a half we were together and then it just fades off. It happens sometimes Maybe about a year and a half we were together or something like that, and then it just fades off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this happens sometimes. Yeah, it's not even a breakup.
Speaker 3:You're just far from each other Because obviously I was living back in the UK. She's over here working and it just got.
Speaker 1:Are you the jealous type Like? Are you the jealous type like? Are you the jealous type when you're back home and she's here and you know what she's working on?
Speaker 3:at first, yeah, because I was always thinking she's working, she's going to be with another man, she's going to be with many other men, many, many and I feel.
Speaker 2:I understand that feeling.
Speaker 3:I try and ring her up and she wouldn't answer. I feel she's with a man.
Speaker 1:And how did you walk it out yourself to decide to okay, I will not give a fuck anymore. Yeah. You just one day woke up and said that's it, I'm not thinking about it. You can't you know. That's the and said that's it, you can't you know, that's the most, that's the job you just can't.
Speaker 3:I used to, but not now many years ago.
Speaker 1:I think it's part of getting the sense of the game in Pataya. The game is they're walking you want them to stop walking, you have to pay. You don't pay them?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think even if you buy a girl or a ladyboy out of the bar, unless you live here and she's living with you if you're living back in your own country, you don't know what she's doing. You'll pay, I don't know, to buy a mat in a bar. Yeah, I don't know, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 baht. And then, right, you go home and then you've still got a sense of like 20,000 baht, baht, 30,000 baht, a month.
Speaker 1:I know I will not say who, but I know guys, and you know some guys also that even they are staying in Thailand and they put the girl out. The girl is still fucking around.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course for that I'm gonna say I'm not in the way like that, but I know who who did Fucking around and have boyfriend Okay, when he's here, when he's Back home or here Back home, okay, but. For me. I think that it's not really Nice to do If you, if you were with someone For being like A girlfriend, a boyfriend.
Speaker 2:I'm. I'm Totally thinking about this. It's not nice to do if I have boyfriend and I'm with men around. So that is not nice if you, if it's a depends on like you, have to try in each order but if, like you trust in in her, but her did that. So, yeah, totally is this, yeah, is this?
Speaker 1:yeah, right to I agree, but there is one point we are missing, and that point is that when you take a girl out of the bar right and you even pay her money, yeah you go back home.
Speaker 1:She's working in the bar. Before she was in a party mode, right Party, getting money, drinking, getting drunk, sometimes even doing drugs. And then when you take them out of the bar, it's boring for them, for some of them, and it gets really, really boring for them Because what do you ask them Okay, go back home to your hometown yeah, that's boring. Or stay in Pattaya. You ask them okay, go back home to your hometown, that's going. Or stay in Pattaya, that's going, also if you're not working. So how can you expect them not to do stuff like that? And when people get drunk, they get horny, or you know how it works, we all know how it works so.
Speaker 2:So like is this area important to make sure, like who's a real person, of course in every aspect of your life.
Speaker 1:When you choose a partner, you have to make sure it's the right partner.
Speaker 3:Like I always say to my friends, you can take the lady out of the bar, but you'll never take the bar out of the lady. I hate this phrase.
Speaker 1:I think it's bullshit. I think it's bullshit because and I explain why Most of the ladies and ladyboys that walk the bars don't really want to walk the bars. No, no, no one wants to be a prostitute. No one wants. You know, everyone wants to have a better life. Of course, when you say the bar, you don't mean the fucking party, you mean the mentality of party girl, right yeah?
Speaker 1:That's what you meant. Yeah, yeah, but we are all. Even the guys that come here are party guys, you know. Can someone hold you down and tell you John, don't party anymore?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:I'm doing whatever I want.
Speaker 1:So no one can get the bar out of John also. No, no.
Speaker 3:Go both ways. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't like this phrase because this phrase makes well people can think.
Speaker 1:I don't like this phrase because this phrase make well people can think that it means that all of them are whores in a whole state of mind and it's bullshit. It's not that I bet. If you ask 100 random girls or ladyboys that walk the bus, do you really want to walk here? 99 of them will say no. Of course not really want to work here. 99 of them will say no.
Speaker 2:Of course not have some who really want to be in the bar, Be in the bar yeah, but fuck for money, no one wants to really do that. No one really wants to do that. You would prefer just to get money free.
Speaker 1:Why do you?
Speaker 2:fuck for it, right? Yeah, yeah, right right, If it doesn't work, so he doesn't get money.
Speaker 1:So right, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. If it doesn't work, so he doesn't get money. So this phrase is a bit problematic. Yeah, yeah, at the beginning of the episode, and now it's the serious part, okay.
Speaker 2:At the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1:I said this episode is dedicated to Minnie. Minnie was your ex-girlfriend, right? She was a ladyboy. Can you tell us about her first, how you you met and the whole progression of that?
Speaker 3:It was one night I walked along Beach Road. I come up to Soy, 13-1. I thought I'll check up. I go up and I go to the. Is it the Avenue? The Avenue? Okay To go and get some coffee. So I walked up 13-1 and I come up La Bamba Bar. Of course, la Bamba Bar. They was outside. One said, oh, come on, come on. I said, look, I'm just going up to here to get some coffee. So I left. I said, maybe come back later, go up. And then that was on the left-hand side. On the right-hand side there was a place called the House. Lady Boy is outside. Oh, come on in, come on in. And I see Minnie.
Speaker 1:How many of us was that?
Speaker 3:That would have been six, six years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay, something like that 2020, just before COVID yeah.
Speaker 3:That might have been longer than that. Okay, seven, eight around, okay, yeah, something like that. Anyway, I didn't know, I just had a chat. I said, look, I'm going to chat. I said, look, I'm gonna go up here, I'll come back. I thought so I went up coffee. I thought I'm gonna go back to the house, to the house, for okay. I went back there and she was still there, so I went in and that was it. From there we got together. She spent the rest of the holiday with me. I flew back home. How was her English? Good, she had good English. Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 3:Okay, it was good, because sometimes the communication is Enough to get by, okay, and then I flew back home. She carried on working. I come back, she worked in the bar, you know, still in the same bar you met her family and then, yeah, and then obviously spent the holiday with her. I flew back home, come back, I said, look, you still want to work in the bar? And she went, no, no, no, no, not really. And I said, well, I'll always sort something out when I get back. Anyway, I said to her when I got back to England, I said, look, don't work in the bar or you can work, work behind the bar, don't go with customers. She said, okay, I'll not go with customers. So she carried on working behind the bars.
Speaker 3:I guess, you had to pay. You had to pay to help you out, yeah. And then I come back to Thailand. We went up to Kalasin, met her family, stayed with her family, okay, and that, yeah, and that was yeah, so, and that was it. And we was together for two years Must have been two years, three years, exclusively, yeah. And then we split up. Okay, we split up, and that was it. We never got back together, but I was still calling her, we're still speaking on the telephone. That was it. We never got back together, but I was still calling, we were still speaking on the telephone and that, but we wasn't together, but she still stayed up in the village. Oh, she never come back. No, she never, ever come back to Batea. And then that was it.
Speaker 3:And then three, three years ago, I was in the hotel and saw you book out, just laid on my bed watching TV. I get a message come through from a best friend, minigun. I went, what, minigun? So I called up. I said B, what's happened? She said she was with me last night, we were having a drink and we finished drinking. She went, she got up, said she always called her friend, mom. She said mom, thank you for everything you've done. Went home and hung herself. It's suicide.
Speaker 2:How her.
Speaker 1:She hanged herself.
Speaker 3:With the orb. Yeah, yeah, she hanged herself. That is why I got a picture of me and her pictures on my phone and that will not go off. That is why I got a picture of me and her pictures on my phone and that will not go off. That is my. I see your memory for her.
Speaker 1:Yes, I get that and it's a terrible thing. Have you tried to understand what happened? What made her come to this decision?
Speaker 3:No, even her friend didn't have no clue, because they were drinking together.
Speaker 2:They was on a few beers at her house. The letters had.
Speaker 3:And it must have been a. I mean, if she, if she said that to me, I would have thought thank you for everything you've done. And I've I've been thinking you know what do you mean by that? Yeah, what do you mean by that? Thank you for everything you've done. And then she went home. That's terrible, and that was it. And then, obviously, I was still in Thailand and for three, four days I didn't want to know anybody. I just went out to a bar and I would drink and drink and drink until I was Completely pissed. Yeah, and even now, when a friend goes back to the village, a friend, she will go to her mom and dad's house. She would video call me and I would see her mom and dad. Her mom would start crying, I would start crying. She couldn't speak no English, she had to translate you both love the same person and yeah, I think next year I should go up to Calisthen for the memorial.
Speaker 3:They do that after four years, right, is it four?
Speaker 1:years or five.
Speaker 2:I thought it's about like five. I think After five years I think it might be five.
Speaker 1:But you can go anyway. So yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll go out with a friend. It will be very emotional.
Speaker 1:It will be, but I think it can also be very releasing sometimes to go there and to know that you keep the good things, you know the good memories and you still let her memory live on with you with the picture, with this podcast, with you explaining and talking about it.
Speaker 3:I helped her family out with the picture, with this podcast, with you explaining and talking about it. I mean, I helped her family out with the funeral. I sent the money.
Speaker 2:I said, look, you're not paying for nothing, I'm sending you the money for everything, for the for everything you know, because even though we weren't together, I still loved her, of course, so I kind of know, like that time, how long you were separate with her, and then you were, how long?
Speaker 3:It was only, probably only about a year, Year after yeah, it was only about a year.
Speaker 2:And other years that didn't happen, yeah yeah, and then. I'm sorry to hear about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a terrible story, but we all know that and this is something that this is the reason I wanted to do this episode, because no one is ever talking about the suicide rates of ladyboys, especially in Brazil and it's crazy, it's crazy, crazy. So I did some research and there is no definite number. There is no definite number for that, but I did a research and you find this normally.
Speaker 3:I will tell you the, the older ladyboys.
Speaker 1:So it's like that 27% Between 21 and 27% of the ladyboys in Pattaya reported that they tried to commit suicide. Okay, so we are already talking one in four. Okay, now the numbers say that somewhere between 16 and 7% of them were successful. Now, these numbers are true to 2019. So it might went down or might went up. Only 10% of them got any mental health like consolation and stuff like that. No one is helping them.
Speaker 1:Not because they are ladyboys, because in Thailand, when all the psychologists and psychiatrists the Thais don't really believe in that, they don't really go to see a psychologist or psychiatrist and like that. So this is in thailand. In the us, they say that it's 40 percent suicide attempts reported by the uh, by the community, not by the hospitals. So it might be a low, lower number, because some people I'm not saying that, okay, I will not say that because it's horrible, but not everyone that said that he tried to commit suicide really did it. Sometimes they do it say it for other reasons.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, by the way, in the Asian region, thailand have the most suicide rate of all the other nations here in 2019. It's not only ladyboys. It was 6.64, ok of so a percent, right, but we are talking about, from 100,000 people under the age of 30, 6.64. It's crazy. It's crazy numbers. Ok, and the last information I got that there is a suicide attempt in Thailand every 10 minutes. Now, this is not only for ladyboys, but the ladyboys numbers are much higher. They are more double than the rest of the other communities. Yeah, yeah, and I want to know, pim, what? Because you are a ladyboy and you know many ladyboys, why do you think many ladyboys have suicide thoughts and maybe try sometimes to do something about it?
Speaker 2:Oh. So I cannot say in the way I had and I probably want to do that before want to finish my life, because I'm, you know, when we begin is very hard to let everyone trust in us about like you're gonna be a good adult in this, this world, or in the way like good for communities. So it's just like you are a lady boy and you know you are like a man, but it's a way, like you know, in the future you doesn't have any children, or, yeah, you can adopt if you want.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in adoption but use the money also.
Speaker 2:You know, like for have baby ladies make baby for you. Like take your sperm and take care of baby for you. But it's used money a lot yeah, yeah it's like you know your life, it's just about like for little boy is important about lovers and about happiness, because we know in, yeah, but it's very general Everyone cares about their love, life and happiness.
Speaker 1:I think there is something more deeply rooted that causes more ladyboys to try at least to commit suicide, because online I read another fact that was interesting, that almost 40% of the successful suicides were because the ladyboys discovered they have HIV 40%. It's crazy. That's also part of that.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say about. You know, before they called ladyboys like a lover loser. It's about like I'm not just about like it's I'm not. I'm not just about like ladyboy with fun you know, some ladyboy. Thai ladyboy like Thai man like a most of them. Most of them are Thai man, but yeah it is about like the love, it's not complicated, like I'm not not going.
Speaker 1:Well, they lose feeling you think many ladies don't get into serious relationship because they are ladyboys, so many men don't take them seriously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah seriously the most. It doesn't make open relationship and that is a hurt to lady boy because like they always be the last choice for for love. You know, like gay, with gay is this okay because the gay is like the gay only like men and the gay only like men, ladies lesbian and men with women, but about lady boy. You know what I mean so you it's.
Speaker 1:It cannot be a gay man, because gay men like men so it has to be somewhere between straight and gay that can be with a ladyboy, so it's already a narrow yeah option. Right, it's like and? And many people consider ladyboy as fetish, not as people. Do you know that that many people look at ladyboys?
Speaker 2:and they say, oh, that's my fetish. They don't see a person in a photo.
Speaker 1:That's also a problem.
Speaker 2:I see it's like it depends on the person also. If they have a positive vibe in their life, they're not going to do like that. But I have like a bad vibe before I'm not talking, I'm not gonna talking about that. But yeah, it's just easy to happen if you're very hurt in that part and you doesn't know what is gonna going on next. So the last part is like normally more young people commit suicide.
Speaker 1:I think it's due to the fact that young people tend to think that everything is so dramatic, Like I had a breakup with this boyfriend oh, my life ends now. You know, and when you get a bit older you take things less, not less, seriously, but you know how to cut the edge off of things.
Speaker 2:So I want to know that about Ladyboy. Is Ladyboy a girlfriend?
Speaker 1:Minnie.
Speaker 2:Minnie. Okay, sorry, minnie, you're the first love for her.
Speaker 1:Like real boyfriend, have she had? Real boyfriends before no no, she hadn't.
Speaker 3:No no.
Speaker 1:You're her first serious boyfriend. I would say yeah, okay, yes.
Speaker 2:Because she'd always worked in in the bar so I gotta say that is pretty, make me sure about that. Why her um finish, finish her life.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's because of that. I think because other reason they decided to finish. Yeah, you don't know what's going on. When she went in the village.
Speaker 2:Yeah but it doesn't mean I'm going to say it's your fault, of course it's not his fault.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like no because we were still talking sometimes I was still helping her, sending her a little bit of money you still had a lot of love in your heart for her yeah, because she ring me or call me. You know video call me. Look, can you send me £50? Or two, three thousand a month? I'd say, yeah, no problem, no problem, you know, I know she wanted him. I don't know what she was doing, whether she was drinking too much, whether she was taking anything. Was she a drinker? You?
Speaker 3:knew her as one no we'd go out to a bar and she'd go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's not like our mutual friend, right? No, oh no.
Speaker 3:No, nothing like that. But I don't know, because when I wasn't in the village she was seeing her friends, Maybe every day they'd go and drink.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I think the exact reason doesn't matter. It matters more that us as a community I'm not talking any specific community, I mean as a human community sometimes we don't see the signs and sometimes we even push people towards that and it's horrible because sometimes all people something very small will make people not do that. Like the right word at the right time. Or a hug, you know, just a simple hug, when you see your friend is a bit down and you say, hey, you okay, everything is okay.
Speaker 2:What happened? Can you tell me?
Speaker 1:That can solve anything. But we as a society we fucked up. We are so self-centered and we only look at ourselves. We cannot see other people anymore, and that's a shame, because this is the guilt for all the suicides that happen is our guilt as a community. It doesn't supposed to be like that. We are supposed to be a safety net for the people that on a verge of losing hope or stuff like that.
Speaker 3:It's like I've had friends back in the UK who have gone out and committed suicide. I think why do you talk? The thing is with us men. We don't like to talk about it. We don't like to. If you're feeling down, you just keep quiet. Yeah, and that's the problem. That's why there's a big suicide rate for men, like in the UK or all around the world. All around the world, yeah, men commit more suicide Because men don't want to talk to someone.
Speaker 1:Have you seen the? I forgot his name. You know the. I don't know where he's from, but he has like british or irish accent. I don't know the. The mma fighter, p p p pindle. You know who I'm talking about, with the blonde hair that goes like that. Do you follow mma? Yes, you know, oh no paddy, the paddy yeah from liverpool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have you seen what he talked about men health because his best friend it was one of the best speeches I ever heard into a men health, a men mental health. When you are feeling bad, look for help. Find your best friend, find someone that you can trust and tell him listen, buddy, I'm feeling down.
Speaker 2:I need your help.
Speaker 3:That was his best friend yeah, someone that you can trust, and tell him listen, buddy, I'm feeling down, I need your help. Yeah, and that was an amazing speech and he didn't know. He didn't know Because his right friend didn't talk to him.
Speaker 1:And sometimes you just need one word, and we as good friends and we as a society, need to be very aware to those moments when people ask sincerely hey, buddy, I need you there now. Can you come, stay with me? Can you, let's go? I need to. I want to grab a beer. Can you come with me?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you know something that they will not say it's hard for them, they just need the company just yes, something out of the soul you know I gotta say about me okay in in the way like that time her just you know like finished drinking with friend and then like that yeah, she said to her best friend she finished drinking and you help her also.
Speaker 2:So I can't say in the way, like you have everything, but look on that, like it doesn't make her happy. You know, like it's everything, yeah, but in your mind you're opening. You think that is not your happiness. But for other people, see, is this, oh, this is good to happen to you, but you think I'm yeah, but everyone's consider happiness.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For example, he might consider stuff that make him happy by winning that competition. Yeah, and for me it's just. Or for people that don't have legs or whatever, just. Oh, I was able to go to the bathroom by myself. You know, happiness is very different, yeah so about her?
Speaker 2:I think maybe he just needs to stay yes, just tired, and needs to not be in this life.
Speaker 3:I mean, she must have known. Well, she knew she was going to go do it. That's why she said goodbye to her best friend, so she knew she was going to go home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't really want to dive into the reasons of health, because it's health, it's health thing, and it's not our to discover it, right, but I do think, and I want this our to discover it.
Speaker 1:but I do think, and I want this conversation to be more around how we can help people in this situation and especially about and this is why I think your input is very important, pim about why it's more common in the ladyboy community why they are committing more suicide. Is it drug related? Is it disease related, like ajv? Is it money related? Or is it love related, as you said before?
Speaker 2:so I'm gonna say to not only ladyboy, but to people, everyone who hear this podcast and I need to share to your friend who you love, family or whatever, please do not give up in your life, keep going, yeah, do on your own, your own way, and keep going your journey because your destiny will, maybe your life, in one day gonna be successful for you. And you gotta, you gotta like yeah, I, I did it, I I make my life, you know, be in what you think you know, then you get. I kind of say, keep going.
Speaker 1:And ask for help this is the most important Ask for help If you're feeling down.
Speaker 1:Go to someone that you trust, someone that you love, someone that you know that loves you back and just say to them hey buddy, hey sister, hey brother, it doesn't matter, I need you now. I need you to be with me, because I'm about to do something that I'm not sure I'm happy with and I need a hug. I need a friend. I need to take a load off my soul. I need a friend. I need to take a load of my soul. I need to take, I need to scream.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I just need to fucking scream as loud as I can, and I want someone to hear me scream.
Speaker 2:And please people. Please people, being human, like if someone needs help, you just help, just help them, you know, just help and do your best.
Speaker 3:It doesn't cost nothing to ask for help it doesn't cost nothing.
Speaker 2:No, no, because you help someone who doesn't care about anything, just you know. Yeah, make people be happy.
Speaker 1:John, in your opinion, what do you think? Not about me, we are talking in general. What do you think that? Why do you think that that community suffers more from suicide attempts? I know it's hard to guess, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Not like you say, hiv.
Speaker 1:But it's so treatable right now, you know, you just take one tablet every day.
Speaker 3:Now it is. Now it is. I take PrEP every day yeah, to avoid it. I take PrEP every day yeah, to avoid it. But even ifEP every day, yeah, to avoid it. But even if someone got HIV, they still have to take one tablet every day. Many years ago that did not exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they used to be the cofters. You remember the 20 tablets?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I know a few ladyboys who have passed away. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know many that are sick right now, and it's okay. They just take one tablet every day and they cannot even transmit it anymore to anyone no, no, no, so it's AJV. You agree with her?
Speaker 3:I think, I think a lot. It's like you get a lot of older ladyboys because men just want the younger ones, so the older ones are being left out. And then they think what's free working? They go back to their village, they go back to wherever and they think I've got nothing. And then, yeah, what do I want to be on this planet for? And then go on yeah, but I, what do I want to be on this planet for? And they go on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't think they wanted to be on the planet for people to pay for them. No, no, no, of course, of course, it's something that they and I'm not saying that they are stupid, but it's something that you have to plan ahead, right, what I will do when I'm 40, let's say, as a ladyboy, and I start losing my hair and I'm not as attractive as before, right?
Speaker 1:what will I do then? So we know some ladyboys that are in their 50s. I will not name. I will not name her, but you know that she's a very successful business owner that owns several bars.
Speaker 2:You know who I'm talking about in.
Speaker 1:Soi 7. Now you know who I'm talking about. So, she's very successful. She's been in the scene for many years. Yes, and there is no problem if you are, if you play the hand.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, it's just. I want everyone, every ladyboy, please, looking on, like, make them be like a role model for yourself and and make your self keep going, get better, like okay, this lady boy she are successful with life and and I. In the one day I would be like her.
Speaker 2:But yes, we cannot be the same like her you don't want to be, because she has a lot of cocks to get where she is she came to this one, but there are others that I know that are successful but we can show the way, we can begin, like who you are, role model, and it's a much more, more and better, more than you doesn't have any hope. You know like make hope better than hope, yeah give hope doesn't yeah doesn't cause anything, you know, and much more better than doesn't have any hope Do you also think it's love related, as she said?
Speaker 1:You think there is a thing that sometimes you just feel well, I will die alone, no one loves me, I cannot find my soulmate. That's also a possibility. Yeah, I saw another research and I don't know how connected it is, but I know that the ladyboy community especially. There are more drug users in that community than any other community in Thailand. Okay, do you think that can maybe be part of it? Yeah, maybe, because we are not talking about weed, right? We are talking about mind-altering drugs like ice like Yaba, which is fucking crazy today.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it can alter your thinking. It can make you depressed sometimes. And, for example, Yaba if people take Yaba, they can sometimes not sleep three days, four days.
Speaker 3:They get crazy Even now you go on the news, it's not just ladyboy or ladies like from Thailand. As you get from Russia, you get from Germany.
Speaker 1:But about those. It's a bit different. And then they find that they've got drugs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh you mean the drugged ones? The drugged ones, they think they can fly, so they jumped in from a 13 foot long.
Speaker 1:You're right. But in Pattaya there is another thing and you know I think you know what I'm talking about. Some men come here at the late 50s, 60s, spend all their money and when their money gone they just commit suicide.
Speaker 2:This is also. It used to be a suicide city before. For all foreigners. Yes, just be careful in your life. No, it's not about being careful.
Speaker 1:This is something else. Think about what they did. They came to Pattaya. They knew they had, let's say, I had $50,000. When this money finish, I will kill myself. Because I don't. And it's not one case or two cases. There used to be many cases like that the people spent all their money and then killed themselves.
Speaker 1:This was their plan, but this is something that I can. Okay, I will do that in quotes. I can respect more because it was planned and they did it because they don't want to work anymore. They felt that they are old enough to end it. Just please don't jump from buildings and meet someone else.
Speaker 1:Find other ways to do that right. But this I can get. But young men, ladies, ladyboys, it doesn't matter. This always just seek for help. And before I finish this episode, I want to again, now I found it. I want to again, now I found it. I want to read the words that Paddy said.
Speaker 1:Paddy the MMA fighter because it's so amazing. So he said there is a stigma in the world that men can't talk. Listen, if you are a man and you've got weight on your shoulders and you think the only way you can solve it is by killing yourself, please speak to someone. Speak to anyone. I'd I known, I'd rather I I know, I'd rather my mate cry on my shoulder than go to his funeral next week. Yeah, that's amazing. This is, I think, summarize everything that we talked today. Just when you feel down, when you think you feel on the verge, just go talk to someone, anyone. It can be even a stranger, sometimes. Even that it can help. If you shy about those feelings. You can find a random stranger in a bar or whatever and just say listen, buddy, I'm feeling down today. Can you have a drink with me?
Speaker 1:yeah, make sure yeah, their company yeah that can change the whole state of mind. Yeah, yeah, john, I want to thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, we can talk more and more about this subject, but I think I prefer to keep it very summarized because I don't want to go into the. I don't like the statistic and all this stuff. I brought it just to show how high it is. But, as I said, it happens and it sucks that this happens and I wish it would not happen. Yeah, and that's it, and thank you, john, for being our guest and thank you for sharing your story, because I know how emotional it is for you and I love your body really and I hope maybe on some other episode we can talk about more happy stuff. So thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me. No problem, pim, do you have anything to say?
Speaker 2:yeah to the listener. Thank you so much for listening until now. I hope you guys get something to use in your life and share this podcast Share this podcast, this episode especially, yeah, especially, share it around.
Speaker 1:I think maybe it can also help someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah and thank you, john, for sharing your experience, your stories.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'm very proud about like you can keep going in your life and you doesn't give up to to find happiness no, no, it doesn't thank you so much thank you again, thank you to our listeners and this episode I will not say the normal stuff that I say, so we just love you and thank you for listening. Yeah, bye-bye.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, bye-bye.