{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":0.02,"endTime":3.66,"body":"Welcome to the Deficient Vegans Podcast, episode 53. I'm the muscle deficient"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3.66,"endTime":7.18,"body":"vegan here with the protein deficient vegan. Do you want to say hi? Hi. Hi, everybody."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":7.48,"endTime":11.04,"body":"So this week, we'll be talking about plant-based versus vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":11.36,"endTime":14.7,"body":"Why are these two movements that seem so similar at odds with one another?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.64,"body":"And another thing we're going to talk about is the intersection of veganism"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":18.64,"endTime":20.54,"body":"and the LGBTQ plus community."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":20.74,"endTime":24.96,"body":"And a couple of LGBTQ plus-owned vegan businesses that we swear by."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":25.08,"endTime":26.1,"body":"Some of our favorites."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":26.44,"endTime":27.78,"body":"But first up, new news."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":27.94,"endTime":29.14,"body":"New news."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":30.02,"endTime":34.42,"body":"The first thing we have here is that Portland, in Oregon in the U.S., has banned foie gras."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":35.16,"endTime":40.04,"body":"Yeah. So if you don't know what that is, which I actually didn't because I've"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":40.04,"endTime":43.3,"body":"never been anywhere that served it because I'm a mere peasant. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":43.66,"endTime":47.3,"body":"But apparently, foie gras, I don't know if I said that right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":47.42,"endTime":48.32,"body":"That was right. Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":48.94,"endTime":52.64,"body":"It's the fatty liver of a waterfowl, such as a goose or a duck,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":52.78,"endTime":56.4,"body":"in which the organ is enlarged by a traditional force-feeding process."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":56.6,"endTime":57.18,"body":"Oh, good."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":57.36,"endTime":58.44,"body":"Which, you know..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":59.22,"endTime":62.88,"body":"Even by vegan standards, which we think most things are unethical,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":63.04,"endTime":65.38,"body":"this is like one of the more unethical practices."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":65.62,"endTime":67.3,"body":"This is like active torture almost."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":67.5,"endTime":68.1,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":69.38,"endTime":73.14,"body":"But so in Portland, because of council rules delaying the implementation and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":73.14,"endTime":76.24,"body":"also an amendment that pushed the enforcement of the law out by another 180"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":76.24,"endTime":80.24,"body":"days, the ban will actually go into effect at the end of the year on December 31st."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":80.66,"endTime":85.28,"body":"Yeah. And so reading through the article, basically, it was talking about some"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":85.28,"endTime":87.32,"body":"of the tactics that the protesters used."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":87.46,"endTime":90.54,"body":"Oh, yeah. And I guess they would reserve primetime tables at the restaurants"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":90.54,"endTime":94.38,"body":"that were serving it and then wait for the dining room to fill up and then stand"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":94.38,"endTime":96.62,"body":"up and start screaming at everyone about how inhumane it was,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":97.08,"endTime":98.56,"body":"which sounds pretty effective."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":98.8,"endTime":101.84,"body":"It sounds like it worked. You would think with all that ruckus,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":102.0,"endTime":105.1,"body":"the restaurants would have voluntarily stopped serving it, but I guess they"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":105.1,"endTime":106.92,"body":"needed a law to get the point across. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":108.36,"endTime":112.62,"body":"Some other places in the U.S. that have also passed some bans on the sale of"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":112.62,"endTime":117.34,"body":"foie gras are California, New York City, Pittsburgh, and Brookline, Massachusetts."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":117.86,"endTime":120.68,"body":"Also, dozens of countries in Europe have banned the production,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":120.68,"endTime":122.5,"body":"but they still allow imports."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":122.78,"endTime":123.94,"body":"Which is, like, weird."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":124.18,"endTime":124.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":124.6,"endTime":128.42,"body":"We think it's bad enough that you can't do it here, but we will buy it from other places."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":128.62,"endTime":134.64,"body":"That is a little weird. India is the only country in the world with a complete ban on foie gras."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":135.08,"endTime":138.24,"body":"Go India! Hopefully other countries will follow suit."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":138.46,"endTime":141.94,"body":"Yeah, hopefully. The next piece of news we have is talking again about protein"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":141.94,"endTime":144.46,"body":"made from air, which we mentioned a couple of episodes ago."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":144.68,"endTime":149.2,"body":"But we do have some updated news on that front. So, there's a Finnish gas fermentation"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":149.2,"endTime":154.4,"body":"startup called Solar Foods, and they have a product called Solein Protein."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":155.4,"endTime":158.98,"body":"That has officially entered the U.S. with the launch of a new protein powder"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":158.98,"endTime":161.78,"body":"by the Ambrosia Collective's Planta brand."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":162.18,"endTime":167.76,"body":"Yeah, which I think Planta protein powder is pretty well known."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":167.88,"endTime":169.4,"body":"I've seen people talk about it. We've bought..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":170.24,"endTime":174.76,"body":"two bags of it it was like a birthday cake sprinkle protein powder and i think"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":174.76,"endTime":179.24,"body":"maybe banana bread or something yeah i didn't particularly care for it's kind"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":179.24,"endTime":184.0,"body":"of gritty i'm hoping the air protein is less gritty than their normal protein powder"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":184.0,"endTime":187.28,"body":"You would think so right air is not super great i can't i don't taste any grit"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":187.28,"endTime":188.48,"body":"in the air right now no feels."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":188.48,"endTime":189.3,"body":"Pretty grit free"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":189.3,"endTime":192.02,"body":"Um also the only i remember planta the only"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":192.02,"endTime":194.96,"body":"thing i actually remember about that is it's one of those protein powders that"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":194.96,"endTime":197.82,"body":"includes like includes a bunch of vitamins and stuff"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":197.82,"endTime":201.0,"body":"and i try not to use it yeah okay yeah i look"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":201.0,"endTime":203.76,"body":"even the air brand or the air flavor has that in"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":203.76,"endTime":206.68,"body":"there so there are a couple of vitamins where it can be a little weird to get"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":206.68,"endTime":210.74,"body":"too much of it so i try to avoid keep it putting in the protein powder but most"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":210.74,"endTime":213.94,"body":"people probably don't need to avoid that i just already take multivitamins yeah"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":213.94,"endTime":217.94,"body":"yeah um yeah so i'm not a big fan of having it in protein powder but if you"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":217.94,"endTime":221.8,"body":"don't take a multivitamin this is probably a bonus yeah i'm."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":221.8,"endTime":225.14,"body":"Mostly interested in trying the first air protein to enter the"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":225.14,"endTime":225.9,"body":"U.S. Oh, absolutely, yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":226.0,"endTime":230.3,"body":"Right now they only have one flavor, and it's salted caramel cold brew,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":230.52,"endTime":236.46,"body":"which I don't know that I will like because I don't even like the smell of coffee. Yeah. But we'll see."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":236.66,"endTime":236.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":237.16,"endTime":238.6,"body":"And we'll let you know because we ordered some."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":238.76,"endTime":241.72,"body":"Yeah. It's got 20 grams of complete protein in each scoop."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":241.9,"endTime":245.9,"body":"I think we're like officially living in the future if we're getting protein from the air."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":246.06,"endTime":249.16,"body":"100%. It seems that way. We need to figure out how to do it in the backyard."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":249.52,"endTime":252.8,"body":"Yeah. All right. And the last piece of news we have is a story about Canada"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":252.8,"endTime":254.34,"body":"turning beer waste into protein."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":254.52,"endTime":258.34,"body":"The Canadian government has kicked off a project to turn beer waste into proteins,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":258.36,"endTime":261.6,"body":"also turn it into cocoa alternatives and other things."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":261.98,"endTime":267.8,"body":"Yeah. So I really like talking about beer and ethanol production and anything involving yeast."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":267.94,"endTime":268.78,"body":"Yeah. Or grains."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":269.04,"endTime":273.22,"body":"Or grains. Yeah. I worked as a process engineer at an ethanol plant for seven years."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":273.34,"endTime":278.64,"body":"So I like this topic. Like, so if you don't know how beer is made,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":278.84,"endTime":281.94,"body":"they basically mash up grains, they remove the solids, add water,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":282.32,"endTime":285.48,"body":"yeast, and a few other things, and then ferment it until alcohol is produced."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":285.78,"endTime":289.14,"body":"There's, like, a few other steps, but, like, that's the gist of it. Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":289.36,"endTime":292.52,"body":"That's why it's so easy to make at home. It's a fairly simple process. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":293.31,"endTime":298.95,"body":"So the solids that are removed are high in fiber and just like some stats around"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":298.95,"endTime":300.55,"body":"what we're looking at macro-wise."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":300.73,"endTime":304.81,"body":"It's 50 to 60 percent carbohydrates, 20 to 30 percent protein,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":304.99,"endTime":308.11,"body":"and like 6 to 10 percent fat. And most of the carbs are fiber."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":309.47,"endTime":311.05,"body":"So lots of good stuff."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":311.19,"endTime":314.51,"body":"Yeah, sounds like a pretty good makeup for an ingredient that would be used for food."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":315.37,"endTime":318.95,"body":"So the majority of brewers spent grain, which is what we're talking about,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":319.15,"endTime":324.63,"body":"is used for animal feed, biofuel, or compost. But some of it still ends up in landfills."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":325.33,"endTime":329.43,"body":"And, like, obviously that takes up space in landfills and also can emit greenhouse"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":329.43,"endTime":331.29,"body":"gases like methane and carbon. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":331.37,"endTime":334.81,"body":"I know everybody has forgotten about the ozone layer, but we could mostly fix"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":334.81,"endTime":337.69,"body":"the problem. But let's not re-cause the problem. Right. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":338.13,"endTime":342.11,"body":"And, like, why food waste? If you can use it, why would, you know, you dump it? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":342.51,"endTime":346.23,"body":"So, you know, turning it into a protein source for humans could lower the greenhouse"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":346.23,"endTime":347.85,"body":"gas emissions and food waste."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":347.97,"endTime":352.59,"body":"And it can also help tackle some food shortages. Yeah. So anytime we get more"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":352.59,"endTime":355.89,"body":"food opportunities from things that were not used for food before is probably"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":355.89,"endTime":357.05,"body":"a good thing. Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":357.63,"endTime":362.61,"body":"It's also like it's a byproduct or I guess a side product. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":363.62,"endTime":368.58,"body":"So the startup company Terra Bio Industries has developed a process that breaks"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":368.58,"endTime":371.96,"body":"open the spent grains, converting the outer layer into sugars."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":372.16,"endTime":376.82,"body":"And then this allows them to separate the protein from the spent grains and"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":376.82,"endTime":379.48,"body":"turn that into a dried plant-based protein ingredient."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":379.56,"endTime":382.88,"body":"I assume maybe similar to like textured vegetable protein."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":383.02,"endTime":385.14,"body":"Yeah, it sounds like really similar to that kind of thing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":385.32,"endTime":388.62,"body":"I couldn't find like pictures or really a description of what that looks like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":388.74,"endTime":393.22,"body":"but that's my guess. Yeah. And it can also allow them to separate out the sugars."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":393.64,"endTime":397.32,"body":"And then those are concentrated into a feedstock that gets used for precision"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":397.32,"endTime":400.24,"body":"fermentation. Okay. Which is like our second favorite thing to talk about."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":402.0,"endTime":407.36,"body":"And so then this technology is going to use the brewer's spent grains to make"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":407.36,"endTime":409.12,"body":"like basically four different ingredients."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":409.68,"endTime":412.98,"body":"Terra protein, which is like a high protein concentrate that would taste like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":412.98,"endTime":417.34,"body":"bread and could lower carb content and boost protein and fiber in things like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":417.34,"endTime":419.86,"body":"baked goods. Pasta and snacks."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":420.06,"endTime":420.74,"body":"High-protein cake."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":420.96,"endTime":421.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":421.36,"endTime":421.64,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":421.92,"endTime":427.44,"body":"I'm done. Not bad. Yeah. Then there's the Terra Fibra, which is high-fiber flour."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":427.7,"endTime":428.24,"body":"Oh, nice."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":428.38,"endTime":428.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":429.04,"endTime":429.84,"body":"That's pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":430.1,"endTime":435.2,"body":"And then there's the Terra Choc, which is a cocoa extender that targets the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":435.2,"endTime":437.98,"body":"alt-chocolate space, which is actually pretty popular right now."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":438.14,"endTime":439.56,"body":"Topping off with all the issues with cocoa."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":439.78,"endTime":443.04,"body":"Yeah. And then the last ingredient it would make is terra malt,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":443.22,"endTime":447.28,"body":"which is like a toffee barley malt syrup that adds flavor, sweetness,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":447.46,"endTime":451.92,"body":"and a natural brown color to, they were saying, sausage, drinks, and other things. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":452.12,"endTime":454.54,"body":"I'm going to be honest. I've had a lot of things that are malt flavored."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":454.54,"endTime":456.36,"body":"I have no idea what malt is or what that means."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":456.44,"endTime":457.5,"body":"No, but I like it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":459.7,"endTime":461.56,"body":"Maybe we can get like a vegan Ovaltine."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":461.72,"endTime":465.12,"body":"Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah. More Ovaltine, please."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":465.12,"endTime":471.58,"body":"So separating it into individual ingredient type products makes it more useful and profitable."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":472.68,"endTime":476.54,"body":"Yeah, they do like making money. I would imagine that if a company has an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":476.54,"endTime":478.9,"body":"to either throw something in the garbage or make money from it,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":479.0,"endTime":480.38,"body":"they're going to go for making money from it, right?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":480.54,"endTime":484.48,"body":"Yeah, and I also think this is interesting because if we ever enter a fully"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":484.48,"endTime":487.78,"body":"vegan world in which we aren't raising animals for slaughter,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":488.02,"endTime":492.02,"body":"then there would be no reason we would send this out as animal feed,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":492.06,"endTime":493.56,"body":"which is what it's primarily used for."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":493.8,"endTime":498.5,"body":"Yeah. So finding other ways to use it for humans is a good thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":498.76,"endTime":499.52,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":500.04,"endTime":504.46,"body":"And then I did want to note that Unlike, like, fuel ethanol production,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":504.62,"endTime":507.32,"body":"the beer production, it's already food grade because people drink beer."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":507.46,"endTime":511.04,"body":"Oh, yeah. So, like, no changes would need to be made to the actual manufacturing plants."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":511.24,"endTime":514.2,"body":"Oh, that's interesting because the way it gets processed and the machinery and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":514.2,"endTime":515.44,"body":"stuff has to be, like, different."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":515.54,"endTime":516.56,"body":"Food grade already. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":516.98,"endTime":518.76,"body":"That's really a good point. Yeah. Cool."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":518.94,"endTime":522.48,"body":"It's already human grade, so, like, but we're feeding it to cows, which is kind of weird."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":522.66,"endTime":525.54,"body":"Yeah. There you go. Looking forward to seeing a lot of these new things turn"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":525.54,"endTime":526.92,"body":"up in our foods as we go forward."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":527.24,"endTime":529.74,"body":"The terra fiber one, high fiber flour, that could be really interesting for,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":529.78,"endTime":531.04,"body":"like, tortillas and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":531.08,"endTime":534.72,"body":"Yeah. I don't know if it would be similar to, what's that one that people,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":534.9,"endTime":537.38,"body":"I still haven't messed with it yet. Psyllium husk."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":537.52,"endTime":537.8,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":538.26,"endTime":541.66,"body":"I wonder if it's similar to like psyllium husk, you know? I know people use"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":541.66,"endTime":545.7,"body":"that in like bready things to reduce the carb count and increase the fiber."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":545.86,"endTime":548.56,"body":"It's pretty potent on the increasing the fiber department. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":548.56,"endTime":551.28,"body":"I actually haven't baked with it yet, but I think we bought a bag of it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":551.86,"endTime":554.64,"body":"Yeah. I've had it as a supplement a few times. It's pretty."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":555.32,"endTime":558.78,"body":"Pretty effective for lubricating the pipes."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":560.04,"endTime":563.76,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So that's it for the news. Let's move into our main segment."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":564.86,"endTime":569.06,"body":"So plant-based versus vegan. We hear these interchanged quite a bit,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":569.06,"endTime":573.92,"body":"but they're actually separate movements or separate ideas with separate motivations."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":574.22,"endTime":576.1,"body":"They can seem really similar, but they're actually quite different."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":576.58,"endTime":579.76,"body":"Yeah, and it can cause a lot of confusion. So we're going to spend this episode"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":579.76,"endTime":583.82,"body":"clearing up what some of that confusion is and why it's important to understand"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":583.82,"endTime":586.2,"body":"the differences. I think kind of for everyone."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":586.66,"endTime":587.04,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":588.09,"endTime":593.43,"body":"Um, this seemed like a particularly relevant topic because another fairly popular"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":593.43,"endTime":598.11,"body":"plant-based influencer slash recipe creator is eating animal products again."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":598.11,"endTime":600.07,"body":"And it seems like that happens kind of a lot."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":600.77,"endTime":604.81,"body":"Yeah. I'm going to be real honest. I don't follow a lot of, like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":605.87,"endTime":608.35,"body":"influencer recipe creator types because I don't want to, like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":608.53,"endTime":611.05,"body":"accidentally lodge their ideas in my brain."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":611.17,"endTime":614.47,"body":"So I just kind of don't pay attention to that space. but i"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":614.47,"endTime":618.97,"body":"mostly see it on reddit of people being like oh my god another vegan content"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":618.97,"endTime":623.95,"body":"creator or like influencer is now eating eggs yeah so i saw that this week i"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":623.95,"endTime":627.45,"body":"don't remember what the guy's name is but seems like it happens a lot yeah so"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":627.45,"endTime":630.19,"body":"hopefully this episode kind of like clears up some of the confusion around why"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":630.19,"endTime":632.01,"body":"that could be and yeah and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":632.01,"endTime":635.09,"body":"You know something else just related to that is kind of crazy it's like when"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":635.09,"endTime":639.53,"body":"one of those creators makes that video that's like oh i'm eating eggs again"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":639.53,"endTime":641.91,"body":"or i'm eating meat again or whatever that's probably like their most popular"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":641.91,"endTime":645.21,"body":"video so far, maybe because of the controversy, but they're going to,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":645.27,"endTime":646.99,"body":"you know, lose all their vegan followers probably."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":647.19,"endTime":649.73,"body":"And then I don't think a lot of omnivores are going to catch on the bus with"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":649.73,"endTime":653.63,"body":"this person who has been vegan for a while. I mean, or has been plant-based for a while."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":653.83,"endTime":657.49,"body":"Maybe they will. Yeah. What I think will happen is they'll just put that in"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":657.49,"endTime":661.95,"body":"their arsenal of reasons why they can't be vegan, you know, but yeah,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":661.95,"endTime":662.93,"body":"we'll get into that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":663.19,"endTime":666.59,"body":"So let's get to the root of the matter. If somebody eats plants, are they vegan?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":667.19,"endTime":672.87,"body":"And I think so. I think many non-vegans would say yes to this yeah and i think"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":672.87,"endTime":678.11,"body":"some plant-based people would also say yes but i think a lot of vegans would"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":678.11,"endTime":679.85,"body":"say i don't know tell me more yeah"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":679.85,"endTime":680.85,"body":"I need more information."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":680.85,"endTime":682.65,"body":"I'm not gonna give you an answer yet"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":684.61,"endTime":688.15,"body":"So, let's get into the differences a little bit. So, for veganism,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":688.47,"endTime":692.73,"body":"first and foremost, this is an ethical philosophy. It's not really necessarily"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":692.73,"endTime":694.43,"body":"about the diet on its own. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":694.79,"endTime":698.69,"body":"It's seeking to end animal exploitation. It's like an animal rights,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":698.81,"endTime":700.11,"body":"animal welfare philosophy."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":700.51,"endTime":705.29,"body":"Yeah. And it extends beyond just food choices. So, if you're a vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":705.53,"endTime":709.09,"body":"you're looking at your clothing, entertainment, household products,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":709.09,"endTime":714.77,"body":"and things you might avoid like aquariums and general issues with any form of animal exploitation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":715.13,"endTime":719.35,"body":"So it's like diet is obviously a very big part of it because that's where most"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":719.35,"endTime":723.89,"body":"of us would normally use animal products, but it is definitely not like the whole thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":724.09,"endTime":729.13,"body":"And like I would say the diet is more of a byproduct of the philosophy than"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":729.13,"endTime":730.67,"body":"it is like the point, you know?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":730.89,"endTime":734.97,"body":"Yeah, definitely. It's just you have to be you have to have a vegan diet if"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":734.97,"endTime":737.29,"body":"you're a vegan because you're not using animal products."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":737.39,"endTime":738.03,"body":"Exactly. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":738.83,"endTime":744.35,"body":"So for plant-based, this is mainly a dietary pattern, and it's honestly a pretty big spectrum."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":744.81,"endTime":745.09,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":745.95,"endTime":749.59,"body":"People may call themselves plant-based whether they eat entirely plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":749.59,"endTime":753.29,"body":"or mostly plant-based. It's like pretty broad."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":753.63,"endTime":753.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":753.95,"endTime":759.17,"body":"And I think even like in medical terminology, like a plant-based diet means mostly plant-based."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":759.33,"endTime":762.03,"body":"Right. And I've seen that used in products too. Yeah. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":762.13,"endTime":764.57,"body":"it'll say plant-based, but then it still has eggs in it. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":764.57,"endTime":767.31,"body":"And I'm like, okay. But then, I mean..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":768.09,"endTime":771.55,"body":"I think I see it mostly on threads, I guess. It's like, oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":771.75,"endTime":773.47,"body":"like I'm mostly plant-based."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":773.65,"endTime":779.25,"body":"I'm like 80% plant-based or, you know, they just kind of, I'm plant-based except I eat fish."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":779.39,"endTime":784.31,"body":"I'm plant-based except I eat cheese. It's like a very broad term that definitely"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":784.31,"endTime":787.55,"body":"doesn't, it's not like as black and white as the term vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":787.77,"endTime":792.11,"body":"Right. Yeah. Some of the reasons that you might be motivated to move towards"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":792.11,"endTime":797.21,"body":"a plant-based diet are like health, weight loss, longevity, athletic performance,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":797.21,"endTime":799.19,"body":"or maybe even environmental concerns."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":799.47,"endTime":802.29,"body":"Yeah. There are a lot of people who eat a plant-based diet because of environmental"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":802.29,"endTime":806.01,"body":"concerns, but really aren't in it for like the animal welfare. Right. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":806.71,"endTime":810.55,"body":"And so I think, you know, you can be plant-based and not be vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":811.05,"endTime":813.79,"body":"even if you eat plant-based 100% of the time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":814.01,"endTime":817.81,"body":"Right. Because ultimately it comes down to the person's reasons and motivations."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":818.69,"endTime":822.73,"body":"So if you eat entirely plant-based, but you don't care about animal exploitation,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":823.23,"endTime":827.31,"body":"and you also don't follow the rest of the vegan philosophy, Maybe I would say you're not vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":827.59,"endTime":831.15,"body":"Right. And that's not necessarily a judgment call. It's just I think we're going"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":831.15,"endTime":834.11,"body":"to talk about a lot of the reasons why using the wrong terminology,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":834.11,"endTime":837.17,"body":"like, confuses people in general."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":837.31,"endTime":842.73,"body":"So, like, when we are telling somebody, hey, we're vegan, they don't know what the hell it means."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":842.93,"endTime":845.85,"body":"Yeah, yeah. It just makes conversations a lot more difficult when we get things mixed up."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":846.91,"endTime":850.71,"body":"Yeah. And I will say, but like you could also be vegan and health focused."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":851.03,"endTime":854.79,"body":"Like you could be a vegan for the animals, but follow a whole food plant based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":854.79,"endTime":856.75,"body":"diet because you're focused on your health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":856.93,"endTime":857.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":857.41,"endTime":860.19,"body":"So it's totally possible to be vegan and also care about your health,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":860.21,"endTime":862.71,"body":"just like you could be an omnivore and care about your health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":862.85,"endTime":863.03,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":863.69,"endTime":867.07,"body":"So I think it really ultimately comes down to like, what is your primary,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":867.31,"endTime":868.93,"body":"what is your primary motivation?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":869.25,"endTime":872.27,"body":"And do you care about animal exploitation? Right? Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":872.71,"endTime":877.09,"body":"And that also changes the lens of, like, what you are going to change in your"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":877.09,"endTime":879.27,"body":"life. Because if you're doing it for animal exploitation, like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":879.47,"endTime":880.93,"body":"you know, you're changing everything."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":881.11,"endTime":885.53,"body":"Like, you're getting rid of anything that you can that is reasonable to eliminate,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":885.53,"endTime":887.29,"body":"you know, animal harm as much as possible."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":887.39,"endTime":889.73,"body":"Like, that is the primary goal and everything else is just kind of like you"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":889.73,"endTime":890.99,"body":"were saying a byproduct of that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":891.37,"endTime":893.85,"body":"Whereas if you're doing it for your health, you're really only going to change"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":893.85,"endTime":895.51,"body":"the things that are going to improve your personal health."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":895.87,"endTime":901.19,"body":"Right. And I think it also might change the way you, like, what kind of things you eat, too."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":901.37,"endTime":905.31,"body":"Yeah. Because, like, vegans are fine with eating, like, meat alternatives,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":905.59,"endTime":909.67,"body":"meat substitutions, cheese substitutions, like, processed things."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":910.25,"endTime":913.53,"body":"But if you're plant-based and your primary thing is your health,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":913.69,"endTime":916.41,"body":"you're more likely to be, like, a whole food plant-based person where you're"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":916.41,"endTime":919.27,"body":"only eating whole food ingredients. So you're probably not messing with,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":919.27,"endTime":922.89,"body":"you know, Beyond Meat and Violife cheese."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":923.09,"endTime":926.23,"body":"So let's talk a little bit about where both of the movements came from."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":927.81,"endTime":930.31,"body":"So veganism, not new really at all."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":930.31,"endTime":934.47,"body":"Which is interesting because I think a lot of people think it's like a really new thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":934.65,"endTime":937.37,"body":"Yeah, they think it's like a trendy fad type situation. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":937.37,"endTime":939.69,"body":"yeah. But they've been thinking it was a trendy fad for a thousand years."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":941.57,"endTime":945.85,"body":"But yeah, so basically ethical objections to animal use go back thousands of"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":945.85,"endTime":947.81,"body":"years and are even intertwined with some religions."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":948.17,"endTime":948.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":949.16,"endTime":952.56,"body":"Modern veganism, however, emerged around the 1940s."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":952.7,"endTime":957.46,"body":"Yeah. Donald Watson helped establish the vegan society. And the core idea of"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":957.46,"endTime":959.2,"body":"that was that animals are not resources."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":959.76,"endTime":962.58,"body":"It has also been an ethical movement first. And like we said,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":962.66,"endTime":964.5,"body":"the food is just kind of part of that stance. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":965.22,"endTime":967.88,"body":"The plant-based movement, on the other hand, is a little newer."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":968.8,"endTime":972.74,"body":"This became mainstream because of nutrition, science, public health,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":972.88,"endTime":974.1,"body":"and chronic disease prevention."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":974.84,"endTime":978.0,"body":"So some of the key characters in that movement are T. Colin Campbell,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":978.38,"endTime":980.2,"body":"Caldwell Esselstyn, and Dean Ornish."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":980.54,"endTime":981.92,"body":"These are some of your favorite people."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":982.0,"endTime":983.76,"body":"Yeah, we've talked about a couple of these people. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":983.82,"endTime":986.18,"body":"this is definitely not a judgment against, like, plant-based diets because,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":986.34,"endTime":989.26,"body":"like, I really think that they are great for health. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":989.28,"endTime":990.42,"body":"I follow a lot of these people."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":990.56,"endTime":993.58,"body":"I've read their books and stuff like that. So there's definitely something to that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":993.72,"endTime":996.96,"body":"But the plant-based diet, as a function of improving your health,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":997.12,"endTime":1000.04,"body":"kind of came from some of these, you know, founding fathers,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1000.18,"endTime":1001.04,"body":"so to speak, of the movement."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1001.04,"endTime":1004.14,"body":"Right. And it's like fairly separate from the animal rights."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1004.4,"endTime":1005.84,"body":"Yeah. Oh, very separate."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1006.02,"endTime":1010.1,"body":"Stuff, you know, like unrelated. Yeah. It's pretty much just human health focused. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1010.99,"endTime":1015.77,"body":"Um, yeah, the messaging for, like, plant-based diet was focused on heart health,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1015.93,"endTime":1020.79,"body":"cancer risk, diabetes, longevity, reversing chronic disease in some cases. Yeah. Things like that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1020.93,"endTime":1025.59,"body":"Think of books like How Not to Die or even documentaries like Forks Over Knives."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1025.73,"endTime":1028.85,"body":"Yeah, or The China Study was a book by T. Colin Campbell."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1029.55,"endTime":1035.07,"body":"Yeah, um, they even have some, like, classes for college universities that are"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1035.07,"endTime":1039.31,"body":"popping up that are around the plant-based diet that focus on nutrition and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1039.51,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"Yeah. Just because I think... That's not really in the normal college curriculum"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1044.45,"endTime":1047.99,"body":"in the nutrition and like dietitian coursework, I guess."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1048.21,"endTime":1051.77,"body":"Yeah. And the plant-based ideology doesn't necessarily care about animals at"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1051.77,"endTime":1053.51,"body":"all. It's all about optimizing human health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1053.65,"endTime":1056.73,"body":"And again, that's not to say that there aren't whole food plant-based people"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1056.73,"endTime":1059.29,"body":"who are also vegan. It's just they are separate things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1059.55,"endTime":1063.49,"body":"So the reason why these two movements might kind of clash, even though the diets"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1063.49,"endTime":1069.43,"body":"are very similar, is that vegans in general want to change society's relationship with animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1069.75,"endTime":1075.47,"body":"Right. So, like, success for the vegan movement would look like fewer animals"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1075.47,"endTime":1077.03,"body":"being bred into exploitation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1077.63,"endTime":1085.11,"body":"There's just a large cultural change or shift. Like, we're just not using animals like resources."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1085.65,"endTime":1085.83,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1086.07,"endTime":1089.37,"body":"And then we'd probably look for legal protection for animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1089.57,"endTime":1093.67,"body":"Similar to how legally you protect, like, pets, like dogs and cats,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1093.77,"endTime":1096.09,"body":"like you can't abuse them or they can be taken away from you."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1096.13,"endTime":1099.91,"body":"I think we would look for those legal protections for all animals."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1100.07,"endTime":1104.69,"body":"Yeah, they're already animal cruelty laws. Yeah. I mean, it's just an extension of that to all animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1104.87,"endTime":1107.21,"body":"Right. Like it doesn't go to factory farming right now."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1107.37,"endTime":1110.97,"body":"I don't remember the details. We covered a story probably a couple of months"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1110.97,"endTime":1114.35,"body":"back where I think it was dolphins and some region were going to be granted"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1114.35,"endTime":1118.35,"body":"like personhood for legal purposes. So it's that kind of idea."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1118.65,"endTime":1123.83,"body":"It's really interesting that it's like species based where these laws apply. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1124.09,"endTime":1128.73,"body":"You know, but from a vegan perspective, we'd want that for all animals. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1129.37,"endTime":1134.21,"body":"And on the other hand, success in the plant-based movement that's mostly focused"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1134.21,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"on improving human health looks like, you know, lower cholesterol,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1137.19,"endTime":1138.37,"body":"lower rates of heart disease,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1138.67,"endTime":1143.95,"body":"weight loss, like more longevity or, you know, not just a longer life,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1144.07,"endTime":1147.03,"body":"but a longer, healthier life, health span over lifespan, things like that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1147.31,"endTime":1152.61,"body":"So like the success for the vegan movement is a societal change where the success"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1152.61,"endTime":1157.75,"body":"for a plant-based movement is like an individual betterment for your health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1157.95,"endTime":1158.29,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1158.61,"endTime":1160.49,"body":"So like totally different goals. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1160.69,"endTime":1165.53,"body":"And I think one place where this could potentially become obvious is that if"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1165.53,"endTime":1170.69,"body":"new science were to come out that was basically like clear cut favoring some"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1170.69,"endTime":1176.89,"body":"new animal based diet or it was just like extremely irrefutable evidence that"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1176.89,"endTime":1180.51,"body":"an animal based diet was the healthier diet over a plant based diet,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1180.59,"endTime":1183.25,"body":"then the plant based movement could completely fall off because they've lost"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1183.25,"endTime":1185.03,"body":"basically their entire argument at that point."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1185.03,"endTime":1189.29,"body":"Yeah, exactly. Since the plant-based movement, the building blocks of that are"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1189.29,"endTime":1195.11,"body":"solely around scientific backed up data that suggests that a plant-based diet is the healthiest."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1195.41,"endTime":1199.63,"body":"If that were to tumble, it doesn't exist anymore. It has no legs."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1199.79,"endTime":1204.71,"body":"Yeah. But, like, so the vegan movement, it's based on ending animal exploitation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1207.13,"body":"Like, you can't really, like, poke holes in that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1207.35,"endTime":1211.49,"body":"Yeah. So, I mean, even if it, and again, this is a hypothetical because there"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1211.49,"endTime":1214.41,"body":"are decades of research showing the plant-based diet benefits."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1214.57,"endTime":1219.67,"body":"But even if the vegan diet or the plant-based diet was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1219.93,"endTime":1222.97,"body":"notably unhealthier, not, like, you know, lethal or something."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1223.11,"endTime":1225.37,"body":"Right, right. But notably unhealthier, vegans would still stick to it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1225.57,"endTime":1229.69,"body":"Right. Because vegans aren't doing it for human health. Right. and I think you know"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1230.73,"endTime":1234.25,"body":"I think any research that would come out about human health wouldn't really"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1234.25,"endTime":1236.59,"body":"shift the philosophy of veganism as a whole."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1236.85,"endTime":1239.99,"body":"Yeah. Just a reminder, if you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1240.33,"endTime":1241.99,"body":"And leave a review, please, too."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1242.27,"endTime":1245.31,"body":"So how do you think the two terms got intermingled?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1245.37,"endTime":1248.17,"body":"I think most of it is because the general population doesn't know,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1248.25,"endTime":1252.65,"body":"like, the difference between the two and the two terminologies haven't been"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1252.65,"endTime":1253.77,"body":"widely discussed. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1254.15,"endTime":1260.53,"body":"So, like, the general public was calling people who don't consume animal products vegan because..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1260.91,"endTime":1263.69,"body":"because they didn't even care to ask them what their motivations were."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1263.81,"endTime":1266.07,"body":"They just know that vegan means, like, you don't eat animal products."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1266.17,"endTime":1269.45,"body":"And I will say that the general public doesn't even really understand the difference"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1269.45,"endTime":1270.85,"body":"between, like, vegetarian and vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1271.05,"endTime":1273.81,"body":"No. They don't even understand what vegetarian means. Like, when I was vegetarian"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1273.81,"endTime":1276.11,"body":"for 20 years, people were like, so you still eat fish?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1276.25,"endTime":1279.43,"body":"I mean, we've met some that work in restaurants that don't understand the difference"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1279.43,"endTime":1280.85,"body":"between vegan and gluten-free."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1281.07,"endTime":1284.91,"body":"I know. So, like, this is just, like, poor education of the general public."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1285.09,"endTime":1288.11,"body":"It's a very, I mean, even if you look at the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1288.11,"endTime":1292.03,"body":"vegan movement and the plant-based people as a whole it's still a very small"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1292.03,"endTime":1296.19,"body":"percentage of the population and I think what's just true in society is like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1296.19,"endTime":1299.53,"body":"the majority of people don't really give a shit what a small group of people"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1299.53,"endTime":1303.95,"body":"are doing enough to learn about it unless it directly impacts them or they have"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1303.95,"endTime":1305.33,"body":"someone come into their life that is"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1306.28,"endTime":1310.3,"body":"you know, following a vegan or plant-based diet, and then they might care to learn more about it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1310.46,"endTime":1314.22,"body":"So I think just generally speaking, they heard the term vegan and they just"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1314.22,"endTime":1315.58,"body":"applied that to everyone."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1315.82,"endTime":1319.42,"body":"Right. And I don't necessarily think the onus is on everybody on the planet"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1319.42,"endTime":1322.46,"body":"to learn about these things, but we should not on our sides,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1322.58,"endTime":1325.6,"body":"on the plant-based side and the vegan side, be like using the wrong terminology"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1325.6,"endTime":1327.62,"body":"and things that get pushed out to the world. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1327.8,"endTime":1330.98,"body":"And I think, interesting, you brought that up because I would say that the confusion"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1330.98,"endTime":1336.44,"body":"actually really escalated between like 2010 and 2020 because of social media."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1336.7,"endTime":1340.46,"body":"Oh, yeah. You have like influencers and food bloggers that are branding themselves"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1340.46,"endTime":1344.58,"body":"as vegan, even though they're just plant-based health focused."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1344.82,"endTime":1347.98,"body":"Yeah. And now you have like millions of people watching their videos,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1348.46,"endTime":1351.7,"body":"reading their stuff that have never heard the word vegan or plant-based before."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1351.96,"endTime":1355.72,"body":"And so whatever that person is saying is now the definition they know."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1356.02,"endTime":1356.18,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1356.18,"endTime":1362.16,"body":"So, like, if a health-focused, plant-based influencer calls themselves a vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1362.48,"endTime":1365.34,"body":"the general population doesn't know there's a difference."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1365.56,"endTime":1367.74,"body":"It's just they're all vegans. Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1368.08,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1369.49,"endTime":1372.87,"body":"And, you know, I think a lot of the time the content creator in those cases"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1372.87,"endTime":1376.83,"body":"is using the word vegan because it's a little more trendy and,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1376.95,"endTime":1380.27,"body":"you know, it latches on a little better than plant-based."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1380.39,"endTime":1385.11,"body":"And you have like a built-in fan base already of people that are vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1385.43,"endTime":1385.77,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1386.65,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1386.93,"endTime":1392.21,"body":"Yeah, definitely. Companies also began rebranding their products to be plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1392.21,"endTime":1394.55,"body":"instead of vegan because maybe they sold better."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1394.67,"endTime":1398.13,"body":"But that also created more confusion that the terms can be used interchangeably."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1398.33,"endTime":1401.53,"body":"Yeah. I think we really saw this over the last 10 years or so,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1401.55,"endTime":1405.17,"body":"but I guess there was a study that basically found that people,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1405.83,"endTime":1409.99,"body":"basically non-vegan, non-plant-based people, were more willing to buy food that"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1409.99,"endTime":1412.87,"body":"had a plant-based label than a vegan label because, for some reason,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1413.33,"endTime":1415.89,"body":"vegan has negative connotations with it when people read it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1416.07,"endTime":1419.03,"body":"Yeah, the vegan label has a lot of stigma. And you also see some products that"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1419.03,"endTime":1421.89,"body":"were like, they were vegan, they switched to using the plant-based label,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1421.95,"endTime":1425.49,"body":"and then maybe they add milk, and they still had the plant-based label."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1425.79,"endTime":1429.95,"body":"Morning star! So now you have this product that used to be a vegan product,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1429.95,"endTime":1435.65,"body":"but is now not vegan and still has plant-based on it, but is using animal products,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1435.69,"endTime":1436.85,"body":"and it's extremely confusing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1437.05,"endTime":1442.59,"body":"It's very confusing. I would actually be really interested to see their numbers because, I mean..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1443.71,"endTime":1448.27,"body":"I can't imagine it helped things on with the people that were already purchasing the products."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1448.75,"endTime":1453.63,"body":"I guess I'd be interested to see if more omnivores started buying their products."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1453.69,"endTime":1456.39,"body":"But I mean, I can't imagine it was substantial."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1456.69,"endTime":1459.71,"body":"Do you think more omnivores bought more? I think it was like plant-based short"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1459.71,"endTime":1462.57,"body":"ribs or whatever because milk's hiding in the ingredients. That seems unlikely."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1463.09,"endTime":1464.25,"body":"Well, yeah. I just wonder if"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1464.25,"endTime":1468.55,"body":"it's like, did they buy it because it said plant-based instead of vegan?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1468.61,"endTime":1470.31,"body":"Oh, definitely. You know what I mean? I think that's probably."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1470.45,"endTime":1472.21,"body":"Do you think it's like substantial though?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1472.39,"endTime":1472.71,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1473.09,"endTime":1473.25,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1473.25,"endTime":1473.87,"body":"It's interesting."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1474.33,"endTime":1477.15,"body":"I wish people would release that kind of information. Yeah. Because,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1477.25,"endTime":1483.21,"body":"you know, if a brand showed, okay, yeah, well, we got like 10% more sales, then fine."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1483.43,"endTime":1486.33,"body":"Use whatever fucking label you want. I want less animals murdered."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1486.53,"endTime":1490.77,"body":"I know I have talked to a few people at restaurants and stuff that are basically"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1490.77,"endTime":1492.73,"body":"like, I put vegan on this. People won't buy it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1492.83,"endTime":1494.01,"body":"I have seen that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1498.13,"body":"So, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Also, documentaries like Forks Over Knives,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1498.27,"endTime":1502.03,"body":"What the Health, Game Changers came out, And the ethical part of the movement"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1502.03,"endTime":1504.53,"body":"received less and less attention because those were all health focused."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1504.79,"endTime":1510.11,"body":"Right. So I think that's where the general public's perception became veganism"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1510.11,"endTime":1514.21,"body":"is like a health thing. Right. It's another diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1514.49,"endTime":1518.97,"body":"So why do vegans object to plant based people calling themselves vegan? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1519.4,"endTime":1524.58,"body":"Okay, from my perspective, if you have plant-based people who are in there for"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1524.58,"endTime":1528.8,"body":"their health, calling themselves vegan, then the ethical stance can get lost"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1528.8,"endTime":1530.78,"body":"if the two movements aren't clearly separated."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1531.04,"endTime":1531.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1531.58,"endTime":1535.74,"body":"Right? So, like, it becomes less about the animals, it loses the actual goal,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1535.9,"endTime":1540.56,"body":"which is ending animal exploitation, and it can start to cause other things"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1540.56,"endTime":1543.2,"body":"to get lost, too, like, you know, the fur industry,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1543.46,"endTime":1546.68,"body":"or, like, use of feathers in pillows and coats, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1547.16,"endTime":1549.38,"body":"zoos, aquariums, like, all forms of animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1549.4,"endTime":1552.5,"body":"animal exploitation kind of get lost because it just becomes focused on a diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1552.82,"endTime":1556.66,"body":"Yeah. And it also creates confusion for the general public that doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1556.66,"endTime":1558.02,"body":"understand either movement."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1558.3,"endTime":1562.28,"body":"So influencer says they're vegan just to kind of simplify their messaging or"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1562.28,"endTime":1565.16,"body":"to make it easier for viewers to understand what they eat specifically."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1565.6,"endTime":1568.44,"body":"They're not doing any of the other vegan things. So even if they like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1568.6,"endTime":1573.34,"body":"even if they convince somebody to like start a vegan diet, like you're going"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1573.34,"endTime":1576.38,"body":"to have somebody who's like, oh, I'm a vegan now, but they're not really vegan"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1576.38,"endTime":1579.94,"body":"because they don't even understand like why, like the philosophy behind veganism itself."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1580.22,"endTime":1584.86,"body":"Yeah. I see this on threads all the time. Threads is like the one I see this with the most."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1585.2,"endTime":1587.92,"body":"Yeah. Where people are calling themselves vegan or they're like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1588.34,"endTime":1591.6,"body":"ooh, I'm going to try a vegan diet for two months or something like that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1593.68,"body":"They say like, I'm going to be vegan for the next two months."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1593.84,"endTime":1596.98,"body":"Yeah. Like try a vegan diet almost makes sense. Right. But they're like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1597.08,"endTime":1598.98,"body":"I'm going to go vegan for the next three months. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1599.06,"endTime":1602.22,"body":"And it's like, clearly you don't really understand the philosophy."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1602.22,"endTime":1603.94,"body":"Like, I wish you would just use the term plant."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1604.06,"endTime":1607.8,"body":"I'm excited that you're going to be doing this, but can you use the right words?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1607.92,"endTime":1608.1,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1608.1,"endTime":1612.72,"body":"You know, and then I think with the influencers thing, whether where they're"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1612.72,"endTime":1616.8,"body":"not like a real vegan, they're a plant based influencer calling themselves a vegan. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1617.34,"endTime":1621.04,"body":"They even maybe they eventually decide they're going to reintroduce animal products"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1621.04,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"or maybe they always use honey. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1623.84,"endTime":1627.74,"body":"Because they don't know that's not a vegan thing, but they're calling themselves vegan. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1627.96,"endTime":1631.6,"body":"And then sometimes they'll just start reintroducing animal products because"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1631.6,"endTime":1634.54,"body":"they want a larger following or they personally want to eat animals again."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1634.82,"endTime":1636.4,"body":"Yeah. Or they're wearing leather or something. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1636.6,"endTime":1637.94,"body":"Right. and it's like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1638.77,"endTime":1642.67,"body":"That's confusing to most people. Yeah. People don't really understand the ins"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1642.67,"endTime":1644.77,"body":"and outs of like, what is vegan? What is plant-based?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1644.91,"endTime":1647.57,"body":"Was this person vegan or was this person plant-based?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1647.77,"endTime":1652.53,"body":"And so then the general public just thinks, oh, well, like vegans quit all the time. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1652.69,"endTime":1656.11,"body":"And they're secretly eating meat all the time and there aren't any real vegans."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1656.33,"endTime":1660.55,"body":"And then also vegans are just hypocrites because no one actually sticks to a vegan diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1660.77,"endTime":1663.71,"body":"Right. Which were all these things applied to people who were just like trying"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1663.71,"endTime":1664.89,"body":"a plant-based diet for a while."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1665.07,"endTime":1667.55,"body":"Right. And it wasn't really, they weren't, they were never really vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1667.95,"endTime":1669.25,"body":"Yeah. They're different things."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1669.43,"endTime":1673.49,"body":"And I've seen all of these things said where it's like, people don't believe"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1673.49,"endTime":1676.37,"body":"that you're not eating meat. Like, oh my God, at work?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1676.55,"endTime":1681.01,"body":"I had people being like, do you go and sneak burgers when I'm at work?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1681.11,"endTime":1683.01,"body":"Yeah. And I'm like, no, he's vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1683.37,"endTime":1686.79,"body":"And they're like, yeah, people say that, but then they go eat meat."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1686.91,"endTime":1690.75,"body":"And it's like, vegans don't go eat meat. What are you talking about?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1691.01,"endTime":1691.15,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1691.51,"endTime":1692.91,"body":"Plant-based people might. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1693.43,"endTime":1693.87,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1694.17,"endTime":1695.27,"body":"A vegan wouldn't."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1695.51,"endTime":1697.21,"body":"Yeah. It's a..."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1697.6,"endTime":1699.66,"body":"Yeah. Using interchangeable just makes it confusing. And now,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1699.76,"endTime":1702.08,"body":"you know, I'm vegan and I go to work functions and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1702.24,"endTime":1705.1,"body":"I've had conversations with people about like, I'm vegan, but they don't get it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1705.18,"endTime":1708.74,"body":"So they're like, well, so you can't have this because it has cheese or like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1708.86,"endTime":1711.16,"body":"or it's like, well, I've got this food."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1711.22,"endTime":1713.84,"body":"Can you eat this this time? Or it's like, it doesn't like change. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1714.66,"endTime":1718.92,"body":"Or like, yeah, you first go vegan and it's like, oh, well, you've only been"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1718.92,"endTime":1719.88,"body":"doing that for three months."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1719.98,"endTime":1723.0,"body":"Can't you still eat this? Like, like a family gathering or something."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1723.3,"endTime":1728.42,"body":"Yeah. I just think this whole setup of like famous person, influencer,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1728.6,"endTime":1730.86,"body":"calls themselves vegan, stops going vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1731.08,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"It creates all this confusion with everyone else because that's all most people see in that space."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1739.36,"body":"Well, and I think the real world implicate, like a lot of this,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1739.5,"endTime":1741.96,"body":"you know, we're talking about something and maybe it sounds to some people like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1742.36,"endTime":1743.44,"body":"oh, it's just like a label thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1743.56,"endTime":1745.76,"body":"Like, who cares what you call yourself? But really it has real implications"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1745.76,"endTime":1748.4,"body":"because like the thing is like if I'm at work and I'm like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1748.48,"endTime":1750.5,"body":"I'm a vegan and we're doing some kind of group outing or something."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1751.34,"endTime":1755.48,"body":"It's like finding the right food may not be taken as seriously or like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1755.86,"endTime":1759.04,"body":"you know, they might not consider that like I actually can't eat the thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1759.78,"endTime":1762.7,"body":"They're like, oh, it's a best effort. Like, we'll try to get something maybe"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1762.7,"endTime":1764.44,"body":"you can eat. But if not, you'll just eat the thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1764.44,"endTime":1768.4,"body":"Yeah, it's seen more of like, oh, you're trying to eat healthy versus like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1768.56,"endTime":1771.42,"body":"oh, you're morally against eating animal products."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1771.58,"endTime":1771.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1772.28,"endTime":1777.5,"body":"Where veganism should be seen similar to like religious ways of eating."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1777.66,"endTime":1780.02,"body":"Yeah. It's often seen as like a health diet."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1780.24,"endTime":1786.3,"body":"Yeah. Right. And then I think a lot of this confusion makes it harder for actual"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1786.3,"endTime":1789.72,"body":"vegans and the movement in general to move forward because like you're losing"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1789.72,"endTime":1792.08,"body":"trust of the public. You know?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1792.36,"endTime":1796.62,"body":"Yeah. They don't think anyone actually sticks to the vegan diet or veganism."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1796.88,"endTime":1799.96,"body":"Right. And then it makes people nervous because they don't think it can be done"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1799.96,"endTime":1804.46,"body":"safely because you have these like, quote unquote, ex-vegan influencers being"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1804.46,"endTime":1806.08,"body":"like, oh, my health was in jeopardy."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1809.12,"body":"I had to add back in eggs. Yeah. And it's like, I don't want to."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1809.76,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"really comment on like anyone's medical situations but it it's just more of"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1815.3,"endTime":1819.66,"body":"like you have huge influence millions of people are seeing your stuff if you're"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1819.66,"endTime":1822.84,"body":"coming out and saying like i was vegan for 10 years and i couldn't keep doing"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1822.84,"endTime":1827.28,"body":"it because i got really sick yeah it makes people feel like nervous about trying a vegan"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1827.28,"endTime":1830.12,"body":"Diet right and again like you said like i'm not"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1830.12,"endTime":1833.26,"body":"gonna make judgment on somebody's specific medical situation but a lot"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1833.26,"endTime":1836.12,"body":"of the time when that happens it's like they were trying a plant-based diet"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1838.98,"body":"they're not really vegan so like the speed bump comes up"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1838.98,"endTime":1841.76,"body":"and they're like okay i'm having like this issue so i should try to"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1841.76,"endTime":1844.56,"body":"change my diet a little bit like it's usually you should make"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1844.56,"endTime":1848.02,"body":"your diet healthier and not like you should reintroduce animal products but"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1848.02,"endTime":1853.26,"body":"making your diet healthier and sticking to a vegan diet is harder so they're"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1853.26,"endTime":1857.16,"body":"like okay well i'm not really in this with the animals anyway so it's just easier"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1857.16,"endTime":1861.38,"body":"for me to start eating meat again but if that person was actually a vegan i"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1861.38,"endTime":1864.1,"body":"mean there's almost always a way to just like change the diet yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1864.1,"endTime":1865.66,"body":"It might be more challenging"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1865.66,"endTime":1866.34,"body":"Right,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1867.36,"endTime":1867.78,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1868.16,"endTime":1871.26,"body":"Yeah. You might lose some conveniences of like where you can eat out and stuff."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1871.38,"endTime":1875.08,"body":"But I think for the most part, you can probably you can probably get it done."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1875.24,"endTime":1878.72,"body":"I mean, yeah, we were talking the other day and it's like if for some reason"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1878.72,"endTime":1882.34,"body":"I ended up with a bunch of overlapping allergies that came out of nowhere and"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1882.34,"endTime":1886.34,"body":"I had to just eat lentils and that was like all I could eat forever."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1886.34,"endTime":1886.78,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1887.06,"endTime":1890.14,"body":"I would do that because I'm not eating animal products."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1890.34,"endTime":1890.46,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.98,"body":"And I don't really have the expectation that anyone else is going to eat one"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1893.98,"endTime":1897.34,"body":"ingredient for the rest of their lives if they have a bunch of overlapping allergies or something."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1897.52,"endTime":1902.82,"body":"But, like, I don't know. I think I'd figure it out. Yeah. Even if it was, like, horrible."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1903.26,"endTime":1906.7,"body":"Yeah. I mean, typically the people who are, like, I stopped going vegan or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1906.78,"endTime":1910.36,"body":"they're actually plant-based. It's just because, like, the alternative was too hard."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1910.52,"endTime":1912.64,"body":"It wasn't because they medically needed to do that. It was like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1912.7,"endTime":1914.98,"body":"okay, it would be too hard to get this stuff because I'm, like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1915.0,"endTime":1916.3,"body":"going out with my friends all the time. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1916.48,"endTime":1918.74,"body":"Or I'm going to have to start cooking more. Or, like, I'm going to have to try"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1918.74,"endTime":1920.7,"body":"some ingredients I don't actually like and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1920.78,"endTime":1923.32,"body":"And they're like, but I already know I like these animal ingredients,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1923.42,"endTime":1924.84,"body":"so I'm just going to go back to that. It's way easier."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1925.1,"endTime":1929.08,"body":"Right. And then I think just, I think most vegans kind of get that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1929.08,"endTime":1933.14,"body":"You're like, oh, you probably weren't actually vegan. Yeah. You were just using the label."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1933.38,"endTime":1937.0,"body":"But, I mean, the general population doesn't understand the difference between the two."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1937.24,"endTime":1942.54,"body":"So all they see is, like, this person went on a vegan diet for 10 years."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1942.88,"endTime":1946.6,"body":"They got sick. Yeah. Obviously, eating a vegan diet is bad for you."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1946.78,"endTime":1946.96,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1947.18,"endTime":1950.52,"body":"I shouldn't try it because it's unsafe. Yeah. You know? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1951.6,"endTime":1956.52,"body":"And then I think the most interesting part about this whole thing is that the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1956.52,"endTime":1959.34,"body":"animals become completely lost in the conversation, right?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1959.5,"endTime":1959.68,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1959.9,"endTime":1962.92,"body":"It's like when people go from, quote unquote, vegan to non-vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1963.12,"endTime":1966.8,"body":"it's like there's almost never a conversation about the animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1966.8,"endTime":1968.6,"body":"It always ends up being about like human health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1968.94,"endTime":1969.16,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1969.52,"endTime":1973.16,"body":"Yeah. And then, you know, veganism just gets seen as like another diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1973.56,"endTime":1975.42,"body":"Yeah, it always gets lumped in with like..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1975.42,"endTime":1977.2,"body":"Keto or the carnivore diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1977.2,"endTime":1979.0,"body":"Even, like, vegan versus carnivore,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1979.08,"endTime":1982.1,"body":"that doesn't make any sense because carnivore is not an ethical thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1982.42,"endTime":1986.16,"body":"Yeah, it should be plant-based versus carnivore. Yeah. If you want to compare things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1986.34,"endTime":1986.5,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":1986.74,"endTime":1990.34,"body":"But, yeah, you always see, like, vegan lumped in with, like, keto. It's, like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1991.06,"endTime":1995.52,"body":"What and it's kind of it is hard to navigate a little bit because i feel like"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1995.52,"endTime":1998.88,"body":"even when i'm talking about it i have to say the vegan diet because plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":1998.88,"endTime":2002.16,"body":"diet doesn't mean vegan all the time anymore right yeah plant-based diet could"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2002.16,"endTime":2005.62,"body":"include meat and milk and stuff like that so there's not really a term where"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2005.62,"endTime":2008.68,"body":"we can cleanly separate and be like i'm a vegan and i also eat the,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2009.22,"endTime":2014.2,"body":"the snufflegus diet or whatever but it's just you know the vegan diet but"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2014.2,"endTime":2017.34,"body":"then you start thinking veganism was all about the diet right you say the plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2017.34,"endTime":2021.02,"body":"diet which also sometimes includes animal products so yeah it's a little confusing it's gotten."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2021.02,"endTime":2024.76,"body":"Pretty confusing where i think before it was kind of clean before plant-based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2024.76,"endTime":2028.38,"body":"came on the the radar it was kind of clean because it's like vegan diet there"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2028.38,"endTime":2029.68,"body":"was one only one meaning for that"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2029.68,"endTime":2030.48,"body":"Yeah yeah it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2030.48,"endTime":2034.0,"body":"Never got conflated with plant-based it was just its own thing yeah and like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2034.0,"endTime":2038.42,"body":"just because you had a v you're eating a vegan diet they call also imply that"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2038.42,"endTime":2039.98,"body":"you're following vegan principles"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2039.98,"endTime":2042.96,"body":"Yeah and there's also another layer i guess of like plant-based diet is not"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2042.96,"endTime":2045.82,"body":"the same as whole food plant-based diet right yeah oh."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2045.82,"endTime":2047.88,"body":"I learned that on reddit they get kind of mean"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2047.88,"endTime":2053.02,"body":"Yeah they have very strong opinions on what whole food means and."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2053.02,"endTime":2058.12,"body":"Then i think you know another layer of the of an issue that this causes is that"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2058.12,"endTime":2062.9,"body":"real life vegans end up spending more time like correcting the misunderstandings"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2062.9,"endTime":2066.02,"body":"than actually explaining ethics and getting people to care about animals"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2066.02,"endTime":2069.6,"body":"Oh yeah i rarely like when i'm talking about me being vegan in a conversation"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2069.6,"endTime":2072.78,"body":"the conversation rarely last long enough for me to get to the animal part."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2072.94,"endTime":2076.5,"body":"I know because you're like having to like correct a bunch of misunderstandings"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2076.5,"endTime":2080.44,"body":"of like what what the hell does that mean? Because there's so much confusion."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2080.86,"endTime":2084.9,"body":"Yeah. And you know, I get it. The part that impacts your relationships with"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2084.9,"endTime":2086.84,"body":"people is like, OK, what do we eat? What can we eat together?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2087.08,"endTime":2090.12,"body":"Yeah. So it makes sense. But like, yeah, when we're using different terminology,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2090.36,"endTime":2093.56,"body":"you just you lose the whole point of like, I'm doing this because like eating"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2093.56,"endTime":2095.8,"body":"animals. Why are we doing that? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2096.0,"endTime":2100.34,"body":"Or just like conversations that are happening online and social media are pretty"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2100.34,"endTime":2104.62,"body":"ineffective because they kind of just get stuck in this like loop of like what"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2104.62,"endTime":2109.36,"body":"is a vegan diet what is a plant based like you're kind of like correcting misunderstandings"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2109.36,"endTime":2114.54,"body":"and you never really get to the meat of the meat the vegan meat of the argument yeah um"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2115.36,"endTime":2118.34,"body":"And then I would say, like, this can be really frustrating because the actual"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2118.34,"endTime":2120.96,"body":"vegans have to explain this, like, over and over again."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2121.16,"endTime":2121.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2122.0,"endTime":2126.1,"body":"And all the time, all the while, the influencer may have never been vegan in"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2126.1,"endTime":2128.54,"body":"the first place. And their ethics weren't even in line with veganism."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2128.94,"endTime":2132.84,"body":"And now I have to explain what that means to a bunch of people."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2133.02,"endTime":2135.08,"body":"And we're going through another round of it, I guess, now with whoever this"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2135.08,"endTime":2137.84,"body":"was. I don't even know the influencer started eating eggs again. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2138.06,"endTime":2139.64,"body":"So it's like, okay, well, we have to go through, like, they weren't a vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2139.76,"endTime":2141.94,"body":"They were eating a plant-based diet, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Same thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2142.04,"endTime":2143.14,"body":"Oh, it's, like, exhausting. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2143.38,"endTime":2143.84,"body":"Groundhog Day."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2143.84,"endTime":2146.7,"body":"And then when this happens, like the public perception of..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2147.42,"endTime":2151.96,"body":"veganism or the vegan movement becomes rebranded to like wellness culture or"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2151.96,"endTime":2155.68,"body":"weight loss culture or clean eating culture you see that a lot and that's when"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2155.68,"endTime":2160.08,"body":"people think like they can't believe that vegans are eating like junk food yeah"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2160.08,"endTime":2164.28,"body":"We see all the time it's like how are you how are you unhealthy as a vegan or like how."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2164.28,"endTime":2166.22,"body":"Can you gain weight as a vegan it's"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2166.22,"endTime":2167.84,"body":"Like okay well these those aren't the same thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2167.84,"endTime":2171.6,"body":"Yeah or all you eat is salads or all you eat is rabbit food it's like uh yeah"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2171.6,"endTime":2175.28,"body":"yeah i like rarely eat a salad maybe i should eat more salads actually right"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2175.28,"endTime":2178.54,"body":"And like Like, you know, as a personal trainer, it's interesting because,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2178.66,"endTime":2182.42,"body":"like, I'm obviously putting out information about, like, vegan nutrition and fitness."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2182.42,"endTime":2186.12,"body":"So, like, you know, I don't know if I make it seem like vegan is necessarily"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2186.12,"endTime":2189.82,"body":"health-related. But I think of it as just, like, first of all,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2189.84,"endTime":2192.34,"body":"there's nothing different about fitness for vegans. And nutrition is,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2192.38,"endTime":2193.08,"body":"like, sometimes different."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2193.18,"endTime":2196.86,"body":"Yeah. So it's like I'm just supporting people who are interested in fitness"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2196.86,"endTime":2198.28,"body":"who also happen to be vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2198.46,"endTime":2202.96,"body":"Right. But it's not an implication that, like, all vegans are doing it for health and fitness."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2203.26,"endTime":2209.5,"body":"Yeah. And I mean, I think vegan personal trainers are important because I would"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2209.5,"endTime":2213.12,"body":"say most vegans probably don't want to work with a personal trainer who isn't"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2213.12,"endTime":2216.18,"body":"vegan or is like pressuring them to eat animal products or being like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2216.6,"endTime":2220.48,"body":"oh, you need like more protein and you should be adding in chicken or you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2220.54,"endTime":2222.74,"body":"It's also an easy out for the personal trainer to be like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2222.74,"endTime":2225.24,"body":"you're not making progress with my program. I guess it's because you're not"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2225.24,"endTime":2227.32,"body":"eating steak. Right. They don't want to hear that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2227.32,"endTime":2230.9,"body":"Yeah. And they also can't really help you in the way like a vegan personal trainer"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2230.9,"endTime":2233.34,"body":"could where they could offer you recommendations of foods."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2233.74,"endTime":2236.98,"body":"You know, they just aren't well versed on that stuff because they don't need"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2236.98,"endTime":2239.36,"body":"it. But yeah, it does get a little confusing. It's like."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2240.24,"endTime":2244.66,"body":"You see a lot of vegan fitness influencers who are really just showing how healthy"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2244.66,"endTime":2249.18,"body":"you can be on a vegan diet, even though they also believe in in the actual vegan stance."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2249.4,"endTime":2252.66,"body":"And that's just because one of the big concerns about the vegan diet is basically"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2252.66,"endTime":2255.42,"body":"like you can't get strong or you won't be performant or whatever."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2255.56,"endTime":2259.88,"body":"So this is just the way of being like, well, yeah, you definitely can still do those things here."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2260.3,"endTime":2263.2,"body":"Yeah, it's kind of like an endless loop of like, I don't want to make this about"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2263.2,"endTime":2268.16,"body":"the diet specifically, but all the questions that people ask are related to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2268.16,"endTime":2270.22,"body":"the diet. Like, how do you eat your protein? Where do you get iron from?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2270.36,"endTime":2271.26,"body":"Like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2271.42,"endTime":2271.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2272.06,"endTime":2274.3,"body":"So, yeah, you have to talk about the diet. Yeah. Inevitably."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2274.6,"endTime":2276.16,"body":"Like, that's where people's biggest hang-ups are."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2276.38,"endTime":2276.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2277.18,"endTime":2280.42,"body":"But, you know, ultimately in all these conversations, the animals are,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2280.52,"endTime":2282.42,"body":"like, completely lost, right?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2282.56,"endTime":2286.92,"body":"Right. So, the social media influencer problem is a really big issue because"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2286.92,"endTime":2290.66,"body":"plant-based influencers and celebrities have really large platforms a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2291.06,"endTime":2294.18,"body":"So, when they say they're vegan and then they become, quote-unquote,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2294.3,"endTime":2299.3,"body":"ex-vegans, a lot of people see that. And maybe that's all they've ever heard about veganism."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2299.48,"endTime":2301.44,"body":"They're like, I followed this person. They were vegan. Now they're not vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2301.56,"endTime":2302.9,"body":"Right. I guess that happens all the time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2303.26,"endTime":2309.06,"body":"Yeah. And then, like, honestly, like, magazines and blogs and news outlets pick up that stuff."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2309.44,"endTime":2312.56,"body":"And then they have articles about, like, why I quit veganism."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2312.94,"endTime":2316.5,"body":"But they're never writing it from the standpoint of, like, why I stopped eating a plant-based diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2316.84,"endTime":2319.36,"body":"Exactly. And, you know, something I think about a lot is, like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2319.96,"endTime":2324.02,"body":"even if you felt like you had to medically change your diet,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2324.02,"endTime":2327.38,"body":"why would you quit all of veganism"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2327.38,"endTime":2330.46,"body":"like yeah if there was some crazy reason you"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2330.46,"endTime":2334.08,"body":"had to start eating animal products like a medical necessity of some sort then"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2334.08,"endTime":2337.36,"body":"why would you like you'd still probably not do like leather and fur and all"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2337.36,"endTime":2340.64,"body":"that stuff and like so you'd still have a lot of the same vegan philosophies"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2340.64,"endTime":2343.78,"body":"you're just like okay well unfortunately i have to do this animal product thing"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2343.78,"endTime":2348.64,"body":"yeah which you know again is not hardly ever a thing that actually is really happening but which."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2348.64,"endTime":2353.06,"body":"I think is why a lot of vegans don't actually believe ex-vegans exist because"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2353.06,"endTime":2356.84,"body":"like Like, it's weird because, like, how can you believe that animal exploitation"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2356.84,"endTime":2358.08,"body":"is wrong would then be like..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2358.95,"endTime":2360.39,"body":"No, I don't think that anymore."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2360.89,"endTime":2365.27,"body":"Yeah. All right. So opinion time. Do you think influencers or people with a"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2365.27,"endTime":2369.41,"body":"large platform have a responsibility to understand a movement before they publicly"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2369.41,"endTime":2370.31,"body":"represent that movement?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2370.57,"endTime":2375.53,"body":"Yeah, I really do. I mean, it's a social movement, just like any other social"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2375.53,"endTime":2378.11,"body":"movement. I would expect if you're calling yourself a vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2378.69,"endTime":2380.25,"body":"you know what the hell that means. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2380.51,"endTime":2385.09,"body":"Just like if you're calling yourself a feminist and then you're also talking"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2385.09,"endTime":2387.81,"body":"about how women shouldn't vote. I think you're a fucking idiot."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2387.81,"endTime":2390.19,"body":"Right. And you should learn what the word feminist means."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2390.39,"endTime":2390.63,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2391.85,"endTime":2396.27,"body":"If you're calling yourself a vegan and you buy a bunch of leather products,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2396.29,"endTime":2400.11,"body":"I think you need to learn what the word vegan means. Yeah. What are your thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2400.69,"endTime":2406.03,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I don't know why you would want to go out there and say, like, I am this thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2406.19,"endTime":2409.73,"body":"Like, if you're going to label yourself, like, a lot of the time you probably"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2409.73,"endTime":2412.17,"body":"don't even need to label yourself. But if you're going to label yourself,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2412.29,"endTime":2413.89,"body":"why would you do it with a label you don't actually understand?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2414.09,"endTime":2417.01,"body":"Yeah. I mean, it feels a little unethical to me. Yeah. Like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2417.11,"endTime":2420.55,"body":"if you're going to be part of a social movement, you need to understand what that is."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2420.71,"endTime":2424.03,"body":"Right. And you need to actually care about it and follow it if you're going"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2424.03,"endTime":2425.07,"body":"to call yourself part of it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2425.21,"endTime":2428.13,"body":"Yeah. And it might be different if, like, there was an influencer who was eating"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2428.13,"endTime":2431.13,"body":"a mostly plant-based diet and people were just, like, assuming they were vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2431.29,"endTime":2434.47,"body":"Yeah. But if you're, like, saying yourself, like, I am a vegan,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2434.67,"endTime":2435.93,"body":"that's a different situation."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2436.23,"endTime":2440.95,"body":"Like, you've labeled yourself now, so you definitely need to understand what all comes with that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2440.95,"endTime":2445.45,"body":"I do think there, there are definitely like some, some influencers who are plant-based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2445.45,"endTime":2447.73,"body":"recipe creators that I don't think ever use the word vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2447.89,"endTime":2451.55,"body":"And I actually, I appreciate that. Like, clearly you're like a health focused"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2451.55,"endTime":2454.83,"body":"food blog and you're doing plant-based recipes, which is great."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2455.01,"endTime":2458.43,"body":"And I think vegans should use plant-based recipes and stuff. Yeah. It's just."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2459.3,"endTime":2462.74,"body":"plant-based recipe creators shouldn't call themselves vegan unless they believe"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2462.74,"endTime":2464.3,"body":"in the ethics. Yeah. Ultimately."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2464.58,"endTime":2467.54,"body":"I think even some of the, um, the athletes we've mentioned in the past that"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2467.54,"endTime":2472.24,"body":"follow a mostly vegan diet, some of those are like, they don't identify as vegan"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2472.24,"endTime":2473.42,"body":"because they understand the difference."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2473.5,"endTime":2476.36,"body":"I'm like, okay, I'm not vegan. I just, I eat this diet. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2476.48,"endTime":2477.98,"body":"And I deeply appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2478.12,"endTime":2481.52,"body":"So now that we know the vegans get mad about it, uh, how could the plant based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2481.52,"endTime":2483.28,"body":"movement actually hurt the vegan movement?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2483.4,"endTime":2484.1,"body":"Like tangibly."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2484.34,"endTime":2484.52,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2484.94,"endTime":2488.88,"body":"Um, I think that the main And one is like the animals become invisible in the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2488.88,"endTime":2491.9,"body":"conversation because the conversation becomes focused on health and fitness,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2492.08,"endTime":2495.26,"body":"becomes less about animal rights, ethics and morals. Right. Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2495.66,"endTime":2497.0,"body":"Which is frustrating from the"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2497.0,"endTime":2500.48,"body":"vegan perspective because our entire goal is to reduce the animal harm."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2500.76,"endTime":2503.18,"body":"We want the focus on animals, not on us."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2503.3,"endTime":2503.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2503.62,"endTime":2507.44,"body":"And then I also think it creates this kind of like a conditional commitment"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2507.44,"endTime":2511.72,"body":"for those who, quote unquote, eat vegan or plant based that they'll mostly eat"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2511.72,"endTime":2515.26,"body":"plant based except for, you know, seafood, cheese, holiday food,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2515.36,"endTime":2516.76,"body":"their birthday, traveling. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2517.1,"endTime":2520.62,"body":"And like from a vegan perspective, I find that a little confusing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2520.98,"endTime":2521.32,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2521.5,"endTime":2524.48,"body":"And from an outsider perspective, it's just perceived that vegans are always"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2524.48,"endTime":2526.2,"body":"like sneaking meat like we talked about."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2526.2,"endTime":2531.36,"body":"And like, if you're an omnivore thinking about going vegan and that's your perception"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2531.36,"endTime":2533.94,"body":"of the movement, you kind of start to think it's impossible."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2533.94,"endTime":2537.54,"body":"So I think just that perception makes it harder to convert people."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2537.7,"endTime":2537.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2538.26,"endTime":2542.84,"body":"I would say in general, like the main issue with this is like it becomes more"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2542.84,"endTime":2543.92,"body":"difficult to convert people."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2544.14,"endTime":2548.58,"body":"Yeah. Because people think basically we're like lying about sneaking meat or"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2548.58,"endTime":2551.94,"body":"like or that it's unhealthy, that kind of stuff, you know?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2552.78,"endTime":2557.7,"body":"And then I also think the actual harm can come into, like, the marketing's confusing,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2557.7,"endTime":2562.42,"body":"you know, because companies can market themselves as having plant-based options"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2562.42,"endTime":2566.16,"body":"or being a plant-based company while still using animal products."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2566.28,"endTime":2568.8,"body":"Yeah, and this actually seems like it's getting worse for some reason."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2568.94,"endTime":2572.66,"body":"Like, there are a lot of more products now that say plant-based,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2572.66,"endTime":2574.66,"body":"and they still have some animal products on them. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2574.82,"endTime":2577.54,"body":"It's, like, a little difficult. You can't even really trust that label anymore."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2577.54,"endTime":2580.82,"body":"You just have to do the same thing, flip it over, look at the allergens or whatever."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2580.9,"endTime":2584.86,"body":"Yeah. It's kind of my go-to. But, yeah, I mean, it's frustrating."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2585.44,"endTime":2588.5,"body":"Yeah. And I feel like all of this stuff just kind of snowballs on itself and"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2588.5,"endTime":2592.02,"body":"basically just like words lose all meanings, you know."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2592.18,"endTime":2596.46,"body":"So I think the main takeaways of how is this tangibly going to hurt the vegan"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2596.46,"endTime":2601.36,"body":"movement, it's like people become less trusting. It's harder to convert people."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2601.64,"endTime":2606.66,"body":"Animals are taken out of the conversation and just confusion on all layers. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2607.18,"endTime":2610.3,"body":"And so since we're trying to be fair and cover both sides, and because,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2610.3,"endTime":2614.22,"body":"you know, I think the health-based benefits of the plant-based movement are"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2614.22,"endTime":2618.02,"body":"really solid anyway, how can the plant-based movement help the vegan movement?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2618.14,"endTime":2622.32,"body":"Yeah. So, I mean, for me, it's like eating less animals is eating less animals, right?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2622.44,"endTime":2627.12,"body":"Like, I want people to eat less animals. So if you're plant-based for different"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2627.12,"endTime":2629.68,"body":"reasons than me, I'm still going to be excited that you're plant-based."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2629.84,"endTime":2632.94,"body":"And also, plant-based eating can turn into veganism. Yeah. You know,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2633.02,"endTime":2635.28,"body":"you start with the diet, maybe for your own health."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2635.82,"endTime":2638.9,"body":"You learn the ethics. I mean, really, in most people's personal lives,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2638.98,"endTime":2639.86,"body":"the diet is the hard part."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2640.18,"endTime":2640.78,"body":"Yeah, yeah, true."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2640.86,"endTime":2643.86,"body":"So once you get to that point, if you're eating a fully plant-based diet or"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2643.86,"endTime":2645.98,"body":"a vegan diet, again, terminology, whatever."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2646.9,"endTime":2649.54,"body":"But then you're like, okay, well, do I really need to buy leather belts?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2649.9,"endTime":2652.44,"body":"And then, you know, slowly kind of snowballs into like, oh, well,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2652.48,"endTime":2654.66,"body":"the other stuff's kind of easy compared to the diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2655.56,"endTime":2658.2,"body":"And I, like, actually do care about this thing more than I thought I did."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2658.26,"endTime":2658.52,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2658.8,"endTime":2659.5,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2659.66,"endTime":2662.4,"body":"Yeah, and I think the communities intersect a lot. Like, if you're vegan,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2662.52,"endTime":2664.66,"body":"you're interacting with plant-based people. And if you're plant-based,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2664.68,"endTime":2666.22,"body":"you're certainly interacting with vegans."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2666.36,"endTime":2669.12,"body":"Right. So, like, I think you end up learning the whys."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2669.34,"endTime":2672.06,"body":"Yeah. You know, maybe you watch a few documentaries and then..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2672.61,"endTime":2676.49,"body":"eventually you become a lifelong vegan. It's obviously easier to convert someone"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2676.49,"endTime":2681.89,"body":"from a plant-based diet to veganism than just a random omnivore to vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2682.21,"endTime":2686.65,"body":"Yeah. And also the plant-based diet normalizes a lot of those animal-free foods."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2686.65,"endTime":2689.85,"body":"So they can create demand for more of the vegan or plant-based options."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2690.05,"endTime":2695.05,"body":"You know, if we had to solely rely on, you know, full actual vegans to create"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2695.05,"endTime":2696.35,"body":"the demand for vegan foods."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2696.45,"endTime":2697.69,"body":"Right. It's a lot harder."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2697.87,"endTime":2701.45,"body":"But there are a lot of people who are doing some variant of a plant-based diet"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2701.45,"endTime":2703.65,"body":"that also help increase the demand for those foods."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2703.81,"endTime":2707.23,"body":"So it helps, you know, a rising tide raises all ships. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2707.33,"endTime":2708.41,"body":"exactly. Helps us all along the way."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2708.49,"endTime":2712.09,"body":"Yeah, it's like you get more restaurant options. Maybe like there are better"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2712.09,"endTime":2717.25,"body":"options in places with like food deserts or like smaller grocery stores start"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2717.25,"endTime":2718.67,"body":"carrying more vegan products."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2718.79,"endTime":2721.31,"body":"Like it makes it easier for anyone to go vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2721.65,"endTime":2725.19,"body":"Yeah, and I think the big one is that it can reach people who will just never"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2725.19,"endTime":2727.01,"body":"really be reached by the animal ethics argument."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2727.23,"endTime":2729.93,"body":"Some people are just never going to care about the animals in that way,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2729.93,"endTime":2732.69,"body":"But they might stop eating animals anyway if it can just help them be healthier."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2732.93,"endTime":2735.71,"body":"That's true. I mean, people are motivated by different things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2735.87,"endTime":2739.09,"body":"And I think that is actually the angle that like forks over knives and game"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2739.09,"endTime":2740.39,"body":"changers really kind of takes."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2740.71,"endTime":2743.39,"body":"Yeah. And I think it's highly effective. And I think it's great because it does"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2743.39,"endTime":2745.07,"body":"significantly reduce animal harm."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2745.35,"endTime":2748.95,"body":"So, I mean, if we can at least get them there. Right. Eating a fully plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2748.95,"endTime":2750.33,"body":"diet, that's better than nothing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2750.55,"endTime":2754.69,"body":"Which I think is, you know, why in this podcast and a lot of the stuff we talk about, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2755.57,"endTime":2757.75,"body":"Yeah, obviously, our focus is animal."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2757.93,"endTime":2758.17,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2758.47,"endTime":2761.71,"body":"It's the animal focus. That is my why. That's your why. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2761.91,"endTime":2767.13,"body":"But ultimately, like, if I can convince you to reduce your animal products because"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2767.13,"endTime":2773.07,"body":"you care about the environment or because you want to lower your cholesterol, like, okay."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2773.41,"endTime":2773.77,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2774.13,"endTime":2776.45,"body":"Reduce your animal products. Like, let's all reduce."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2776.75,"endTime":2781.03,"body":"Just from my perspective, you know, the Game Changers and the Forks Over Knives"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2781.03,"endTime":2783.83,"body":"stuff is kind of what led me into it because, you know, I've got the interest"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2783.83,"endTime":2785.29,"body":"in, like, health and fitness and stuff."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2785.29,"endTime":2790.39,"body":"So, you know, my avenue into veganism was through, like, the health lens."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2790.49,"endTime":2792.05,"body":"It was like, okay, this is like a healthier diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2792.23,"endTime":2795.05,"body":"And I start to learn more about it. And I start to realize, like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2795.11,"endTime":2796.47,"body":"okay, we never really needed animal products."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2796.51,"endTime":2800.33,"body":"And I get more into the ethics and read about, you know, the other aspects of"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2800.33,"endTime":2802.95,"body":"veganism and talking to you about the other aspects of veganism."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2803.23,"endTime":2806.99,"body":"And now it's like, obviously, I'm vegan for the animal rights,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2807.15,"endTime":2808.47,"body":"animal welfare, things like that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2808.63,"endTime":2814.83,"body":"But this was my on-ramp into, like, even starting to think about the animal ethics side of things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2815.29,"endTime":2817.13,"body":"And I think a lot of people will probably enter it that way."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2817.43,"endTime":2820.81,"body":"Yeah. I know when we first started dating, I was like, oh, I went,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2820.81,"endTime":2825.07,"body":"I went vegan. Cause like, obviously you knew I was a vegetarian for so long. And, um."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2826.09,"endTime":2830.13,"body":"you were like, oh, I've actually read a few books on like whole food plant-based stuff."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2830.27,"endTime":2834.21,"body":"And you were like real into that idea of like, ooh, I'm going to be whole food"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2834.21,"endTime":2837.77,"body":"plant-based. And I'm like, hold up, I'm not eating whole food plant-based."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2837.93,"endTime":2841.89,"body":"Right. Well, I think that's an interesting example of kind of what we've been talking about here."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2842.03,"endTime":2844.67,"body":"And it's like, okay, whole food plant-based for health. And you're like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2844.87,"endTime":2846.69,"body":"well, no, I don't want that. I'm just vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2849.15,"endTime":2851.85,"body":"And then, yeah, I just remember, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2851.85,"endTime":2854.73,"body":"like one of some of our initial conversations around the food was like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2854.73,"endTime":2857.61,"body":"well how are you getting your protein or like is getting"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2857.61,"endTime":2860.39,"body":"your protein hard and it's like yeah well then i just started cooking"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2860.39,"endTime":2863.13,"body":"stuff for you and you're like oh right okay well this isn't"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2863.13,"endTime":2866.57,"body":"bad yeah and then it's like yeah every time because we"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2866.57,"endTime":2869.23,"body":"were like long distance dating yeah so every time we"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2869.23,"endTime":2871.99,"body":"hung out it was like you were only eating vegan food and we hung out and then"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2871.99,"endTime":2874.89,"body":"you were kind of doing whatever when we weren't hanging out yeah but then it was like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2874.89,"endTime":2878.17,"body":"oh yeah no if we're moving in together you're fully"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2878.17,"endTime":2881.37,"body":"vegan baby right exactly like there's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2881.37,"endTime":2886.49,"body":"no animal products in this house and you like immediately turned i mean i guess"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2886.49,"endTime":2890.51,"body":"you were kind of just like plant-based at the time like immediately fully plant-based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2890.51,"endTime":2894.07,"body":"no animal products and then yeah it's like oh i'm gonna make you watch this"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2894.07,"endTime":2898.61,"body":"documentary we're gonna watch this documentary and then yeah i broke your brain yeah you"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2898.61,"endTime":2901.79,"body":"Just start to get more and more frustrated about all the things that go into"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2901.79,"endTime":2903.63,"body":"using animals for things so."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2903.63,"endTime":2907.71,"body":"Yeah the turning point was actually pretty quick like the turning point from"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2907.71,"endTime":2913.63,"body":"you being like okay whatever i'll do the plant-based diet to like oh i'm like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2913.63,"endTime":2918.61,"body":"i care about animal rights pretty hard right now yeah it was a quick on-ramp so i"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2918.61,"endTime":2920.19,"body":"Think i think a lot of people probably had that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2920.19,"endTime":2921.81,"body":"Experience yeah absolutely so"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2921.81,"endTime":2926.43,"body":"The stuff we're talking about is this just a debate about like veganism purity"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2926.43,"endTime":2929.83,"body":"or strategy or what's the actual impact on the animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2929.83,"endTime":2933.81,"body":"Yeah and i think like it's just kind of multi-layered right and i"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2936.5,"endTime":2940.16,"body":"From the vegan angle, it's like clarity in words do matter."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2940.44,"endTime":2944.2,"body":"And I think it's important for all of us to use the correct terms because it's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2944.2,"endTime":2948.46,"body":"important for the general population to understand that veganism is an animal"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2948.46,"endTime":2949.62,"body":"liberation movement. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2949.84,"endTime":2954.06,"body":"First and foremost. And, like, conflating those terms takes away from,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2954.24,"endTime":2957.6,"body":"like, the actual point of veganism. Right. You know?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2958.18,"endTime":2961.58,"body":"And I also think it's important that the general population knows we're not,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2961.68,"endTime":2963.0,"body":"like, randomly sneaking meat."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2963.26,"endTime":2966.36,"body":"Yeah. Right? Weird opinion to have that is very prevalent. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2967.42,"endTime":2970.72,"body":"Because like it it um i think"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2970.72,"endTime":2974.06,"body":"that part's important because it maintains the importance of the movement and"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2974.06,"endTime":2977.2,"body":"that we're serious about it and we're serious about what happens to the animals"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2977.2,"endTime":2981.38,"body":"right because like if if there's a movement in which you're only following it"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2981.38,"endTime":2985.54,"body":"like half-assedly yeah which is what i think the general population thinks when"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2985.54,"endTime":2989.98,"body":"they hear veganism like well we're sneaking meat if they if they actually think that if"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":2989.98,"endTime":2991.56,"body":"Even the vegans are eating meat why do i."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2991.56,"endTime":2994.38,"body":"Care yeah then it's like obviously we don't really care that much about the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2994.38,"endTime":2996.54,"body":"animals so like Why should you care about the animals? Because,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2996.7,"endTime":2998.96,"body":"you know, all vegans eat meat sometimes."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":2999.18,"endTime":3003.48,"body":"Yeah. Like, that's the general idea. Like, that's a bad thing if that's what people think. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3003.66,"endTime":3007.02,"body":"Right? Because it would be like, I don't know, just like a random example,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3007.1,"endTime":3010.16,"body":"but like feminists saying that we support women's rights except on Sundays."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3010.4,"endTime":3013.46,"body":"Because women shouldn't be allowed driving on Sundays. Yeah. Or reading books."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3013.92,"endTime":3017.9,"body":"You know? Like, women get rights on Monday through Saturday only,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3018.14,"endTime":3021.88,"body":"not on Sundays. Like, that's, to me, what like a half-assed vegan sounds like."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3022.04,"endTime":3022.42,"body":"Right. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3022.78,"endTime":3027.02,"body":"You know, we're like, oh, women can only vote in years that don't end with eight."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3027.94,"endTime":3031.26,"body":"Like, that sounds stupid. It looks weak. It looks like you don't really care"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3031.26,"endTime":3032.26,"body":"about women's rights. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3032.44,"endTime":3036.32,"body":"Which I think is how the public perceives it if they think vegans are sneaking meat."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3036.6,"endTime":3038.96,"body":"It's like, oh, you kind of only kind of care about animal rights."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3039.12,"endTime":3040.08,"body":"So, like, it can't be that bad."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3040.2,"endTime":3041.48,"body":"I think it's important that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3041.82,"endTime":3046.2,"body":"vegans, you know, take their stance seriously and they walk the walk."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3046.4,"endTime":3051.22,"body":"And you're vegan. If you're saying you're vegan, you're fully vegan 100% of the time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3051.56,"endTime":3054.4,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Or call yourself plant-based. Right."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3054.5,"endTime":3058.88,"body":"Which is, again, we love plant-based people. I think there's a lot of benefit"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3058.88,"endTime":3059.92,"body":"to the plant-based diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3060.34,"endTime":3064.42,"body":"So this is not like, it doesn't make sense for you to go the extra step and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3064.42,"endTime":3066.1,"body":"tell people you're a vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3066.32,"endTime":3068.84,"body":"Yeah. If you don't believe in a vegan. If you're not going to do it. Why are you doing that?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3068.84,"endTime":3072.44,"body":"If they're going to catch you eating chicken nuggets, please do not call yourself a vegan."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3072.62,"endTime":3073.54,"body":"It just makes it hard for all of us."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3073.54,"endTime":3074.76,"body":"It does. It really does."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3075.04,"endTime":3076.26,"body":"I know this sounds like."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3076.7,"endTime":3077.1,"body":"Pedantic."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3077.28,"endTime":3081.1,"body":"Pedantic and purity and labeling stuff. And I really am not super into labeling"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3081.1,"endTime":3084.08,"body":"stuff, but it's just, this makes it more confusing for everybody."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3084.62,"endTime":3087.92,"body":"And it's hard to like educate people about veganism when they're like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3088.0,"endTime":3090.6,"body":"oh, I don't understand. Like this guy's vegan and he eats eggs and milk."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3090.66,"endTime":3091.78,"body":"And it's like, well, he's not vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3092.14,"endTime":3096.2,"body":"I know. I've had those arguments. Like this, this is a real problem because"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3096.2,"endTime":3099.44,"body":"I've personally experienced this a lot in my life."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3099.64,"endTime":3099.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3100.12,"endTime":3100.98,"body":"This is a real thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3101.1,"endTime":3103.46,"body":"Veganism has been around for, like we've said, thousands of years."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3103.46,"endTime":3107.76,"body":"And people still don't even understand what it is on the diet side specifically."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3107.76,"endTime":3111.44,"body":"that one element they still don't understand it because there's so much confusion"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3111.44,"endTime":3113.62,"body":"and like people saying they're vegan when they're not yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3113.62,"endTime":3116.9,"body":"And it's like that's the problem with like it's a niche movement and now you've"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3116.9,"endTime":3122.72,"body":"caused confusion in an already very small niche movement right and now it's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3122.72,"endTime":3127.06,"body":"just like you spend all your time correcting misinformation right you know"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3127.06,"endTime":3130.08,"body":"And it's not really just the general public like you know we talk about people"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3130.08,"endTime":3132.78,"body":"uh had in restaurants and stuff but i was just like"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3133.18,"endTime":3137.08,"body":"at a cafeteria the other day and had a there was something that was marked as"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3137.08,"endTime":3139.52,"body":"vegetarian and i was talking to the chef and i was like oh do you know if this"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3139.52,"endTime":3143.16,"body":"is vegan and they're like yeah it's vegetarian and i was like okay do you know"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3143.16,"endTime":3144.24,"body":"if it's vegan like and this is a."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3144.24,"endTime":3148.16,"body":"Chef you're a cook i need you to know what this shit means it's"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3148.16,"endTime":3151.4,"body":"Just yeah there's just so much miseducation misinformation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3151.4,"endTime":3155.84,"body":"Well even i've seen plant-based people that like aren't vegans that are calling"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3155.84,"endTime":3159.38,"body":"themselves vegans then they're clearly following a plant-based diet yeah they"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3159.38,"endTime":3163.08,"body":"don't even understand the difference so it's like yeah there are definitely people"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3163.08,"endTime":3165.18,"body":"Calling themselves vegan out there that don't really know what vegan."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3165.18,"endTime":3168.02,"body":"Means yeah which is like how can you expect the general population to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3168.02,"endTime":3170.88,"body":"understand if like the people participating in one or the other don't really"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3170.88,"endTime":3173.82,"body":"understand yeah and then like i mean all of"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3173.82,"endTime":3178.52,"body":"that said i do think the movement should work together yeah and like i think"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3178.52,"endTime":3184.06,"body":"as vegans we should support and embrace people that want to go plant-based or"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3184.06,"endTime":3187.68,"body":"even vegetarian for their health because they're doing more than most people"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3187.68,"endTime":3191.4,"body":"and i think that I think that if we all did that, there'd be a lot less infighting."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3191.52,"endTime":3194.18,"body":"And I know this is like a hot take, especially if you're on Reddit."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3194.3,"endTime":3198.64,"body":"This is a very hot take because like the vegan subreddit seems to hate vegetarians."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3198.86,"endTime":3202.18,"body":"I personally don't hate vegetarians because I was a vegetarian for 20 years"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3202.18,"endTime":3205.58,"body":"and I went vegan and I was just missing information."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3205.84,"endTime":3211.14,"body":"And I just think like being the most supportive that you can and like pulling"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3211.14,"endTime":3214.8,"body":"in the most people that you can and giving them whatever resources they need,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3215.06,"endTime":3215.98,"body":"answering their questions,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3216.46,"endTime":3221.84,"body":"giving them advice, giving them recipes, like sharing helpful information is"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3221.84,"endTime":3226.32,"body":"like the best thing that we can do to support those people and who very well"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3226.32,"endTime":3230.6,"body":"could go vegan at some point and are probably more likely than the general population"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3230.6,"endTime":3232.98,"body":"to go vegan if they're already like interested in eating that way."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3233.2,"endTime":3238.22,"body":"Yeah. Or at the very least, like make sure they stay vegetarian or plant-based"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3238.22,"endTime":3241.22,"body":"because a lot of, I'm sure a lot of people are like, they're vegetarian."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3241.22,"endTime":3244.22,"body":"They try to talk to vegans and they get, you know, talked down to and they're"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3244.22,"endTime":3245.84,"body":"like, why am I even a vegetarian? Screw it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3246.04,"endTime":3247.52,"body":"Yeah. I think like..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3248.17,"endTime":3250.19,"body":"I'm not going to tell anyone how to interact with other people."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3250.39,"endTime":3254.45,"body":"Yeah. Me personally, if you're a vegetarian and you want to talk to me and like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3254.45,"endTime":3257.33,"body":"you need help getting your protein and stuff, I'm going to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3257.41,"endTime":3259.39,"body":"Yeah. If you need support, I'm going to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3259.53,"endTime":3261.89,"body":"If you're plant-based and you need support, I'm going to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3262.33,"endTime":3265.37,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to recommend you drink milk, but I will talk to you."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3265.59,"endTime":3270.69,"body":"Yeah, exactly. I will help answer your questions. Like I will support you however you need to."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3270.81,"endTime":3274.59,"body":"And I think we should kind of all be doing that because ultimately that helps the animals."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3274.79,"endTime":3274.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3275.61,"endTime":3276.15,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3276.37,"endTime":3276.55,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3276.55,"endTime":3281.79,"body":"And it's like, the more plant-based people there are, the more demand there"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3281.79,"endTime":3284.61,"body":"is for plant-based foods, which drives it into the mainstream,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3284.77,"endTime":3289.91,"body":"which means that more people know what it is, or at least kind of know what it is."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3290.01,"endTime":3293.87,"body":"Because I would say, you know, I think there were a lot of vegan and plant-based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3293.87,"endTime":3295.97,"body":"documentaries popping off at the same time. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3296.45,"endTime":3301.39,"body":"But I would say that, I wouldn't necessarily say Cowspiracy is like a specifically"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3301.39,"endTime":3303.15,"body":"vegan documentary. It's more of environmental."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3303.45,"endTime":3307.25,"body":"Yeah. But I would say that, you know, you got like Forks Over Knives,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3307.35,"endTime":3309.95,"body":"What the Health, those, those are plant-based documentaries."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3310.27,"endTime":3313.93,"body":"But I hear people talk way more about those. Like the general public talks way"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3313.93,"endTime":3316.61,"body":"more about those documentaries than specifically vegan documentaries."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3316.73,"endTime":3318.49,"body":"Yeah, they just talk more about the health aspect in general."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3318.53,"endTime":3322.31,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I would say like the vegan documentary is like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3322.67,"endTime":3323.79,"body":"I guess, Dominion. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3323.95,"endTime":3329.37,"body":"I've never, ever, ever, ever heard a normal person not in the vegan space talk about the documentary."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3329.61,"endTime":3333.15,"body":"I guess Seaspiracy is kind of a vegan documentary. Yeah. It's not really about the environment."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3334.11,"endTime":3337.25,"body":"Yeah, I think it does touch on environmental stuff. But what I will say is,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3337.37,"endTime":3341.75,"body":"like, way more people are talking about the health-based documentaries. Yeah. And..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3342.62,"endTime":3346.3,"body":"let's keep calling it plant-based but like that's a good thing because like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3346.3,"endTime":3351.68,"body":"ultimately i think all vegans just want less animals eaten eventually no animals"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3351.68,"endTime":3353.36,"body":"eaten but like yeah gotta start somewhere"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3353.36,"endTime":3356.16,"body":"Because like people care about their health the most like you can't"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3356.16,"endTime":3360.04,"body":"really do like a vegan health documentary necessarily because like switching"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3360.04,"endTime":3362.68,"body":"from leather belts to not leather belts is not good for your health like that's"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3362.68,"endTime":3366.0,"body":"not yeah yeah so you have to kind of go the food aspect yeah and the environmental"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3366.0,"endTime":3369.14,"body":"aspect is also kind of a health concern by the way like a better environment"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3369.14,"endTime":3374.36,"body":"also helps your health so like those things um are kind of where the interest is."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3374.6,"endTime":3378.38,"body":"Right. So it makes sense to make like documentaries about the food specifically,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3378.38,"endTime":3379.84,"body":"but it's just, you know, it's plant-based."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3380.18,"endTime":3383.98,"body":"Right. And then, you know, what kind of like you were saying is that not everyone's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3383.98,"endTime":3386.46,"body":"going to go, not everyone cares about the animals, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3386.46,"endTime":3392.6,"body":"And there's like, they could watch all of the hidden camera footage that you"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3392.6,"endTime":3395.18,"body":"give them and they're still not going to hear about the animals because that's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3395.18,"endTime":3396.38,"body":"just, some people are like that."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3396.52,"endTime":3398.9,"body":"Yeah. But maybe you can get them in with the environment."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3399.3,"endTime":3401.92,"body":"Probably not if they don't care about animals, But like maybe you can get them"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3401.92,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"in with like a health documentary, you know."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3403.74,"endTime":3407.5,"body":"And no matter like what way you get them in, just like chipping away at all"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3407.5,"endTime":3411.28,"body":"the little things will help, you know, reduce animal harm a little bit at a time."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3411.44,"endTime":3415.92,"body":"So any reduction of animal harm is a good thing, even if the ultimate goal is no animal harm at all."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3416.12,"endTime":3421.0,"body":"Yeah. And I personally feel like we should celebrate the steps along the way,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3421.02,"endTime":3427.88,"body":"because I think for most of us, I think the end goal is very far into the future."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3428.06,"endTime":3428.78,"body":"If ever. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3428.96,"endTime":3433.22,"body":"Yeah. And I think like none of us and none of the people listening to this podcast"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3433.22,"endTime":3435.1,"body":"are probably ever going to see a fully vegan world."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3435.24,"endTime":3439.38,"body":"Yeah. And that can feel, in my opinion, it can feel really depressing and daunting."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3439.7,"endTime":3446.14,"body":"Right. But like what lightens that for me is like seeing people make reductions,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3446.44,"endTime":3451.16,"body":"seeing new products on the market, like seeing more Google searches for like what is vegan, like."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3451.96,"endTime":3454.88,"body":"seeing it get more mainstream and popular you have"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3454.88,"endTime":3457.88,"body":"to celebrate wins somewhere you know i for some"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3457.88,"endTime":3460.84,"body":"reason i've been getting a lot of negativity on some of the new news stuff"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3460.84,"endTime":3464.6,"body":"that i've been posting in carousels yeah on social media people are just like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3464.6,"endTime":3468.56,"body":"oh it's jeff bezos i don't care what he's doing for like the silkworms and it's"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3468.56,"endTime":3472.64,"body":"like okay i mean i also don't really like jeff bezos but i mean i do care about"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3472.64,"endTime":3478.32,"body":"the silkworms so yeah i just think it can be really depressing if you never,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3478.58,"endTime":3482.1,"body":"ever celebrate fucking anything, you know,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3482.48,"endTime":3485.3,"body":"until it's perfect, we might never see that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3485.5,"endTime":3488.86,"body":"And I will say, I think Jeff Bezos probably had very little to do with the Bezos"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3488.86,"endTime":3491.26,"body":"fund giving money to the Silkworm research."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3491.6,"endTime":3493.04,"body":"He probably doesn't even know."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3493.18,"endTime":3496.44,"body":"He does not get any personal credit. It just happens to have his name on it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3496.74,"endTime":3500.7,"body":"Yeah. We weren't being like, yay, Jeff Bezos, right? I mean, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3501.82,"endTime":3505.6,"body":"But yeah, and I also just feel like rejecting and being rude to plant-based"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3505.6,"endTime":3509.34,"body":"people can push them away, which also, like, by the way, doesn't help the animals."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3509.54,"endTime":3512.66,"body":"Like, if your ultimate goal is to help the animals, like, embracing people,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3512.76,"endTime":3517.5,"body":"being kind to people, helping them when they ask for help, being inclusive,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3517.5,"endTime":3520.74,"body":"I think is just a better way to be in general."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3521.08,"endTime":3524.88,"body":"Yeah. So, I think some interesting questions to think about on both sides is,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3524.96,"endTime":3529.22,"body":"like, for the vegans, if somebody reduces their animal consumption by 95%,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3529.22,"endTime":3531.02,"body":"isn't that still meaningful progress?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3531.38,"endTime":3532.8,"body":"I think it is. What do you think?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3532.98,"endTime":3536.76,"body":"Yeah, I think every little reduction should be celebrated and seen as like a"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3536.76,"endTime":3539.12,"body":"milestone and another step towards our ultimate goal."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3539.52,"endTime":3542.96,"body":"Yeah. Progress comes, you know, one step at a time. It's not an all or nothing kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3543.08,"endTime":3549.14,"body":"I mean, like for me, I don't think I've converted anyone but you that I know of, right? But like."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3550.37,"endTime":3554.87,"body":"They're like little tiny things that have happened, right? Like my parents are"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3554.87,"endTime":3555.91,"body":"using plant-based butter."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3556.09,"endTime":3559.19,"body":"My parents are buying plant-based ice cream."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3559.43,"endTime":3563.91,"body":"One of my friends is doing more meatless meals. She'll send me recipes and stuff"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3563.91,"endTime":3565.17,"body":"of things she's trying. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3565.81,"endTime":3570.95,"body":"That's progress. I'm super happy about that. Like I love to see that, you know?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3571.19,"endTime":3571.57,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3571.85,"endTime":3573.03,"body":"That's how I feel about it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3573.17,"endTime":3577.05,"body":"Yeah. And I think, you know, that could be viewed as strategic compromise in"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3577.05,"endTime":3579.39,"body":"a lot of ways because you're like not getting everything you want."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3579.39,"endTime":3580.85,"body":"But you are like making some progress."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3581.01,"endTime":3584.89,"body":"So I think that's still something that advances animal rights because it creates"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3584.89,"endTime":3589.21,"body":"a little less demand and, you know, less animals get harmed in the process."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3589.45,"endTime":3593.81,"body":"So, I mean, if you, if there are a lot of people out there like you who can"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3593.81,"endTime":3596.73,"body":"influence, you know, a couple people in their personal life,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3596.83,"endTime":3599.69,"body":"maybe even just like three to five people per person out there,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3599.79,"endTime":3601.05,"body":"that's a huge reduction overall."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3601.05,"endTime":3605.25,"body":"And what is that, like, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar or something?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3605.45,"endTime":3607.75,"body":"Like, I just think being nice to people and, like..."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3607.75,"endTime":3608.83,"body":"Not a very vegan phrase."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3609.03,"endTime":3613.59,"body":"Not a vegan phrase at all. Like, I'm actually not catching flies with honey or not honey."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3614.05,"endTime":3619.39,"body":"We need a better one, and I don't know what it would be. But it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3619.39,"endTime":3623.77,"body":"sweeten tofu with maple syrup than apple cider vinegar. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3623.95,"endTime":3624.95,"body":"There you go. We'll work with it. Okay."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3626.71,"endTime":3631.03,"body":"But I mean, I think just like the gist of that is like bringing more people"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3631.03,"endTime":3635.41,"body":"in, being kinder to people, like trying to like celebrate their like when they're changing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3635.53,"endTime":3637.63,"body":"I think that's a good thing. I think that helps everyone."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3637.93,"endTime":3642.23,"body":"Yeah. And then the question is to think about on like the plant-based advocates side."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3642.61,"endTime":3647.41,"body":"It's like if your health wasn't being improved, would you add back animal products to your diet?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3647.41,"endTime":3651.63,"body":"Right. It's like, if you went plant-based because you thought it was going to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3651.63,"endTime":3654.47,"body":"be like some drastic health improvement and everything just stayed the same."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3654.63,"endTime":3656.67,"body":"Yeah. Would you keep eating plant-based? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3658.1,"endTime":3662.96,"body":"And then, like, is animal welfare a why or a reason at all for you,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3662.96,"endTime":3665.54,"body":"or is it just, like, a side benefit of you eating the plant-based diet?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3665.68,"endTime":3669.42,"body":"And then I think, like, the main question I would have for plant-based people"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3669.42,"endTime":3674.98,"body":"that call themselves vegan is, like, why would you identify as vegan if your"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3674.98,"endTime":3677.04,"body":"motivation isn't ethics-based? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3677.58,"endTime":3682.3,"body":"I think, you know, maybe vegan is a more understood term. Plant-based sounds a little pompous."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3682.58,"endTime":3683.8,"body":"Yeah, it kind of does."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3683.82,"endTime":3686.38,"body":"It's a little weird. And most people also don't know what it means."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3686.38,"endTime":3689.34,"body":"So it's easier just to explain socially and be like, I'm a vegan. Leave me alone. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3689.94,"endTime":3693.98,"body":"But then I will say for like an influencer or someone that's like trying to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3693.98,"endTime":3697.42,"body":"reach a lot of people, sometimes I think it's a little sus when they do it because"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3697.42,"endTime":3700.18,"body":"I kind of feel like they might know the difference and they're like putting"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3700.18,"endTime":3701.4,"body":"it out there like formally."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3701.88,"endTime":3704.74,"body":"But I think some of them do it because it's like built in vegan access."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3705.0,"endTime":3709.62,"body":"I mean, I can tell you right now, if you look at like the traffic volume stuff"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3709.62,"endTime":3713.56,"body":"for using the word plant-based versus using the word vegan, it's like night and day."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3713.64,"endTime":3716.34,"body":"Like nobody uses the word plant-based out there. Yeah. So using the word vegan"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3716.34,"endTime":3719.04,"body":"is like where you want to be to try to get an audience."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3719.24,"endTime":3721.68,"body":"Right. If you're not vegan, that's disingenuous. Like I'm not going to jump"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3721.68,"endTime":3725.44,"body":"into like, uh, I'm a professional football player because like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3725.54,"endTime":3729.12,"body":"obviously that would get a lot of attention, but I'm, I'm not a professional football player."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3729.58,"endTime":3734.74,"body":"Yeah. It's a little gross to me because it's like, I think using the word vegan"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3734.74,"endTime":3738.82,"body":"is like you almost automatically gain the trust of a vegan audience."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3738.86,"endTime":3742.28,"body":"Like they think you share the same values and ethics as them."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3742.42,"endTime":3749.22,"body":"Yeah. So if you're saying it, but you're not actually a vegan for the animals, it's gross."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3749.58,"endTime":3753.3,"body":"Yeah. You know, it's like you're kind of like tricking people intentionally for clout."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3753.58,"endTime":3753.76,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3753.98,"endTime":3757.26,"body":"And then like also it gives you access to like vegan media coverage,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3757.5,"endTime":3761.8,"body":"which is like obviously I think a little more prominent than plant-based media coverage."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3761.92,"endTime":3765.44,"body":"And it can also open you up to like getting partnerships with different brands"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3765.44,"endTime":3768.7,"body":"and just like vegan credibility in general within the vegan space."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3768.7,"endTime":3771.92,"body":"But then, you know, I think there's this other thing of, like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3772.56,"endTime":3776.36,"body":"potentially you have these influencers or famous people that might not understand"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3776.36,"endTime":3780.18,"body":"that veganism is more than a diet because not everyone is well-educated."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3780.3,"endTime":3782.72,"body":"So I'm not saying everyone is doing it maliciously."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3783.06,"endTime":3786.4,"body":"There's also like the possibility that people just don't understand it."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3786.84,"endTime":3790.54,"body":"Well, they just, you know, they know vegan is a trendy thing and they stop eating"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3790.54,"endTime":3794.2,"body":"animal products. So like, I'm a vegan and they just don't care enough to look into it more."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3794.4,"endTime":3797.9,"body":"Yeah. I've also seen just because sometimes I'll, you know, get a wild hair"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3797.9,"endTime":3802.4,"body":"and be like, I think you mean you're plant-based because you're saying that you eat fish on Sundays."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3803.1,"endTime":3806.04,"body":"And then they'll be like, I'm whatever I want to be. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3806.12,"endTime":3808.76,"body":"but like the term vegan like actually means something. And they're like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3808.86,"endTime":3810.18,"body":"it means whatever I say it means."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3810.28,"endTime":3814.84,"body":"I've seen that several times. Good Lord. Vegan can mean different things to different people."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3814.96,"endTime":3817.4,"body":"For some people, it's a lifestyle. For some people, it's about the diet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3817.52,"endTime":3819.94,"body":"And it's like, no, that's not what the word."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3820.06,"endTime":3822.98,"body":"I don't want to argue, but like, that's just not what the word means."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3823.04,"endTime":3824.18,"body":"Words mean things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3824.46,"endTime":3826.78,"body":"And I know like language changes over time, blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3826.92,"endTime":3828.14,"body":"That one hasn't changed yet, though."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3828.24,"endTime":3831.26,"body":"Yeah, maybe one day vegan will mean fully plant-based diet. And there'll be"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3831.26,"endTime":3832.54,"body":"another word for actual vegans."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3832.66,"endTime":3834.8,"body":"Yeah. But that's not today. Animal liberators."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3836.54,"endTime":3840.9,"body":"And then like there's like another thing. They could be doing it for the health and ethics both."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3841.46,"endTime":3844.24,"body":"Kind of like you were saying, like maybe they're starting with health and they"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3844.24,"endTime":3845.7,"body":"develop the ethics along the way."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3846.0,"endTime":3848.72,"body":"Yeah. So I guess the question we have for our audience is if two people eat"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3848.72,"endTime":3851.92,"body":"the exact same meal, but one's doing it for the animals and the other is just"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3851.92,"endTime":3853.04,"body":"doing it to lower the cholesterol."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3853.34,"endTime":3856.22,"body":"Are they part of the same team or are they just like eating at the same restaurant?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3856.48,"endTime":3859.94,"body":"And I would love to hear what you guys think. Yeah. You can discuss it in our Discord."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3860.98,"endTime":3863.12,"body":"All right. Now, moving on to our next segment."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3863.52,"endTime":3868.28,"body":"And another thing. If you didn't know, we changed our myth of the week to and another thing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3868.54,"endTime":3870.24,"body":"It's not a myth every time. It might still be a myth."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3870.28,"endTime":3870.92,"body":"It might be myths."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3871.1,"endTime":3875.18,"body":"So, another thing we're going to talk about is the interesting relationship"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3875.18,"endTime":3879.86,"body":"between veganism and the LGBTQ plus community. Happy Pride! Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3880.56,"endTime":3884.04,"body":"We thought this would be an interesting subject because it's Pride Month and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3884.04,"endTime":3887.92,"body":"also because we saw a couple of polls on Reddit, which are anecdotal,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3888.1,"endTime":3888.92,"body":"but still pretty interesting."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3889.22,"endTime":3892.98,"body":"Dude, they were really interesting. Yeah. So basically, over the last week,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3893.2,"endTime":3898.02,"body":"a couple of polls were created on Reddit because basically the original post"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3898.02,"endTime":3903.3,"body":"was like, hey, can we change the vegan subreddit icon to be rainbow colored?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3903.82,"endTime":3907.84,"body":"And then someone was like, there aren't any gay people in veganism."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3908.24,"endTime":3912.58,"body":"And then someone was like, I've got to prove you really wrong. And they created two."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3912.92,"endTime":3915.86,"body":"I can see some of those people have never been in a vegan community."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3916.08,"endTime":3919.68,"body":"I know. So then they created the first poll. And then people were like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3919.76,"endTime":3920.62,"body":"ooh, I don't like the wording."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3920.74,"endTime":3923.66,"body":"So then they created a second poll. But we're going to share both results to"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3923.66,"endTime":3925.22,"body":"you because they're really interesting, actually."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3925.44,"endTime":3927.78,"body":"And it was a pretty big sample size."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3927.94,"endTime":3931.08,"body":"Yeah. And we know the results are a little biased just based on Reddit slanting"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3931.08,"endTime":3934.66,"body":"pretty significantly liberal more than the general population."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3934.66,"endTime":3936.46,"body":"But the results are still interesting."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3936.56,"endTime":3936.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3937.26,"endTime":3939.2,"body":"So let's share what the polls were."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3939.34,"endTime":3944.08,"body":"So the first poll, the total responses were 1,383 people. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3944.14,"endTime":3945.58,"body":"That's like a pretty good amount of people. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3945.84,"endTime":3954.18,"body":"So out of those 1,383 people, people that identified as vegan and LGBTQ plus were 530."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3954.76,"endTime":3958.24,"body":"People who identified as vegetarian and LGBTQ plus were 85."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3958.66,"endTime":3962.82,"body":"And then people that identified as plant-based and LGBTQ plus were 45."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3963.94,"endTime":3970.4,"body":"LGBTQ plus and veg curious people were 40 and the non-LGBTQ was 683."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3970.68,"endTime":3978.3,"body":"So about 50-50 between LGBTQ and non-LGBTQ in the vegan space or veg curious,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3978.5,"endTime":3981.24,"body":"plant-based, vegetarian, whatever you want to call it, the whole bag."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3982.16,"endTime":3986.3,"body":"Then the second poll actually had a lot more people because it was up for longer."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3986.68,"endTime":3990.8,"body":"It ended up with 5,882 responses. Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3990.92,"endTime":3992.62,"body":"Much bigger. Like three times as big as the last."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3992.64,"endTime":3997.28,"body":"Yeah. Like a much bigger sample. Like actually like a pretty good survey amount, honestly."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":3997.68,"endTime":3998.36,"body":"It was pretty solid."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":3998.52,"endTime":4006.28,"body":"Yeah. So a little bit different categories here. Yeah. But vegan and LGBTQ plus was 2,100."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4006.76,"endTime":4008.08,"body":"Out of 5,800."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4008.46,"endTime":4013.38,"body":"Yeah. Out of 5,800. Yeah. And then people that identified as vegan and not on"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4013.38,"endTime":4015.76,"body":"the spectrum was 2,500. Okay."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4016.32,"endTime":4021.14,"body":"People who identified as vegetarian and LGBTQ+, 416."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4022.1,"endTime":4027.34,"body":"People that identified as vegetarian and not, 426. So like almost 50-50."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4027.58,"endTime":4032.0,"body":"Yeah. And then people that identified as plant-based and LGBTQ+, was 211."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4032.26,"endTime":4036.26,"body":"And people that identified as plant-based and not on the spectrum was 299."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4037.24,"endTime":4042.72,"body":"More data this time, but it was still around 45% LGBTQ plus in the vegan space."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4043.14,"endTime":4044.64,"body":"Yeah, that doesn't surprise me much."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4044.96,"endTime":4048.16,"body":"It doesn't surprise me either. Representing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4049.23,"endTime":4054.57,"body":"So researchers have studied this a little bit. So here's some more broad statistics."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4054.91,"endTime":4059.53,"body":"Roughly 7 to 10 percent of the adults in the U.S. population identify as LGBTQ+."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4059.53,"endTime":4064.13,"body":"A Gallup poll in 2022 reported 7.1 percent."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4064.35,"endTime":4067.51,"body":"So still in that same range. And more recent estimates are higher,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4067.71,"endTime":4068.73,"body":"especially in younger adults."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4069.03,"endTime":4072.83,"body":"Yeah. And that's just the general population, right? Right. So like the vegan"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4072.83,"endTime":4077.73,"body":"and vegetarian communities appear to have much higher LGBTQ plus representation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4078.41,"endTime":4081.27,"body":"So one academic survey, and this is just in America."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4081.57,"endTime":4088.61,"body":"Yeah. This is a survey of American vegans, and it found that 65% identify as heterosexual. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4089.03,"endTime":4091.09,"body":"13% identify as bisexual."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4091.55,"endTime":4095.95,"body":"Yeah. 7% identify as homosexual, and 15% identify as queer."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4096.27,"endTime":4104.11,"body":"So that's 35% of the U.S. vegan community is identifying as somewhere on the spectrum of LGBTQ+."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4104.11,"endTime":4106.61,"body":"Versus 7% to 10% of the normal population."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4106.61,"endTime":4107.81,"body":"Isn't that so cool?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4108.07,"endTime":4108.73,"body":"It's a lot."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4109.33,"endTime":4115.25,"body":"I just think that's amazing. LGBTQ plus community is doing some fucking heavy lifting here. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4115.51,"endTime":4119.39,"body":"So we should celebrate hard this Pride Month. There you go. They are pulling"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4119.39,"endTime":4120.75,"body":"their weight in the vegan community."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4120.89,"endTime":4123.63,"body":"I'd love to see it. So you might be wondering why there's such an overlap,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4123.63,"endTime":4126.73,"body":"and so do we. But the best we can do is speculate, right?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4127.13,"endTime":4130.87,"body":"Yeah. So here are some of our random speculations. And if you have others,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4131.35,"endTime":4132.27,"body":"let us know what those are."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4133.09,"endTime":4134.55,"body":"People love random speculation."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4135.09,"endTime":4138.09,"body":"I mean, it's a podcast. Like, that's all it is, really, right?"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4138.21,"endTime":4139.89,"body":"Like, we tried to throw in some facts, but..."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4139.89,"endTime":4142.07,"body":"No, no. I'm very expert and authoritative."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4142.27,"endTime":4145.21,"body":"I'm mostly yapping. So, like, our first speculation is, like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4145.31,"endTime":4150.27,"body":"experiencing life outside of social norms may make people more willing to question"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4150.27,"endTime":4152.35,"body":"other social norms, like eating animals."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4152.55,"endTime":4156.71,"body":"I believe this. I think anything kind of counterculture makes you more willing"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4156.71,"endTime":4158.29,"body":"to be counterculture in other ways."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4158.29,"endTime":4162.65,"body":"Yeah, I think we read through some statistics a couple weeks ago,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4162.67,"endTime":4166.79,"body":"and one of those was like, there's a very large population of atheists in the vegan space."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4167.03,"endTime":4170.47,"body":"And I think that that is kind of lines up with this, right? Like..."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4170.94,"endTime":4178.78,"body":"At least in America, just, you know, social norms would be like a Christian family with children."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4179.22,"endTime":4181.44,"body":"Yeah. Straight couple, that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4181.68,"endTime":4185.8,"body":"Yeah. And I think the general, you know, the layman's way to say this is like,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4185.9,"endTime":4188.56,"body":"people are already giving me a bunch of bullshit. I guess I might as well try"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4188.56,"endTime":4190.18,"body":"this other thing people are going to give me bullshit for."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4190.36,"endTime":4194.28,"body":"Yeah. I'm already getting bullshit. Why do I care? I'm going to go do whatever the hell I want."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4194.46,"endTime":4194.68,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4195.16,"endTime":4201.3,"body":"And then I also think people might have greater empathy to animals because of"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4201.3,"endTime":4204.0,"body":"how people who live outside of societal norms can be treated."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4204.24,"endTime":4207.98,"body":"Yeah. You know, when you're in like a minority group in society or you're just"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4207.98,"endTime":4211.52,"body":"kind of like on the outskirts of society, like you can get treated pretty shitty."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4211.74,"endTime":4216.62,"body":"Yeah. And I think it makes you develop empathy for like other people and animals."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4217.36,"endTime":4219.88,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense to me. You also have more of an openness,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4220.06,"endTime":4224.4,"body":"I think, to new identities, new lifestyles and new ways of thinking that are,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4224.54,"endTime":4227.3,"body":"again, not really in line with some of the norms. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4227.46,"endTime":4232.2,"body":"And then I also think there's like a connection between LGBTQ plus activism"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4232.2,"endTime":4233.88,"body":"and other social justice movements."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4234.18,"endTime":4239.76,"body":"So, you know, if you're already part of LGBTQ plus activism,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4239.76,"endTime":4245.54,"body":"you might learn about other social justice movements while you're already in in one."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4245.7,"endTime":4248.66,"body":"You know what I mean? Like you're more likely to hear about other things."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4248.9,"endTime":4249.7,"body":"Yeah, a lot of overlap."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4250.0,"endTime":4250.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4251.07,"endTime":4254.45,"body":"It also ties into some of the points we made in our veganism and masculinity"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4254.45,"endTime":4259.27,"body":"episode, where veganism challenges gender norms, and so can LGBTQ+."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4259.27,"endTime":4259.75,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4260.49,"endTime":4261.27,"body":"Which is a good thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4261.73,"endTime":4262.93,"body":"Absolutely. It's a great thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4263.05,"endTime":4266.91,"body":"So we'd love to hear your thoughts on this data and any other random speculations you might have."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4267.01,"endTime":4271.59,"body":"That are probably better than what we came up with. And as a final side note,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4271.73,"endTime":4275.57,"body":"we actually have two queer-owned vegan businesses that we can't say enough good"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4275.57,"endTime":4278.89,"body":"things about that we wanted to highlight here on an episode we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4279.41,"endTime":4285.31,"body":"You know, pride and stuff. Okay, so first off is my most favorite ever vegan"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4285.31,"endTime":4287.55,"body":"bakery, Pie Pie, My Darling."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4287.79,"endTime":4291.21,"body":"Oh, yeah. It's a queer one-woman-owned vegan bakery in Chicago."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4291.21,"endTime":4292.75,"body":"It's been around since 2014."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4293.29,"endTime":4297.19,"body":"It's been in Veg News a lot, and she's won quite a few awards."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4297.21,"endTime":4301.95,"body":"And she deserves them all because this is the best baked good place I've ever had in my entire life."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4301.97,"endTime":4305.67,"body":"She deserves all the good things in her life. they"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4305.67,"endTime":4308.67,"body":"actually have several rainbow cake cake options year round"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4308.67,"endTime":4311.37,"body":"including one that they offer during the"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4311.37,"endTime":4315.39,"body":"month of june pride month and you can buy it by the slice and they even have"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4315.39,"endTime":4319.05,"body":"a trans is beautiful cake their cakes are not only pretty but they're awesome"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4319.05,"endTime":4322.55,"body":"and delicious they also have a bunch of other desserts like cookies rice crispy"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4322.55,"endTime":4328.01,"body":"treats they have uh like basically cakes in a cup like a like a really big cupcake"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4328.01,"endTime":4330.53,"body":"in a cup cake almost like a cupcake yeah"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4331.81,"endTime":4335.89,"body":"so i would say if you're ever in chicago check it out also she's super nice"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4335.89,"endTime":4338.31,"body":"we've interacted with her many times now and she's"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4338.31,"endTime":4339.69,"body":"We actually got our wedding cake."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4339.69,"endTime":4343.91,"body":"From there we actually got two because we couldn't pick between the flavors"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4343.91,"endTime":4345.27,"body":"because she has like a really really"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4345.81,"endTime":4349.41,"body":"really good strawberry cake and then uh what was the other one like a cookie"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4349.41,"endTime":4354.25,"body":"monster cookie dough cake really good we couldn't decide between the two still"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4354.25,"endTime":4356.71,"body":"can't still can't we do it again"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4357.35,"endTime":4362.19,"body":"It lasted for weeks We put it in the freezer It does not freeze well for a year"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4362.75,"endTime":4366.89,"body":"It freezed okay. It was like, I think any cake would not freeze well for a year."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4366.93,"endTime":4367.85,"body":"I don't know why people do that."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4367.99,"endTime":4369.13,"body":"It's more about the ceremony."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4369.13,"endTime":4370.85,"body":"The sentiment. Yeah, it was pretty weird."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4371.03,"endTime":4371.47,"body":"I liked it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4371.67,"endTime":4371.93,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4372.27,"endTime":4374.81,"body":"I will say, it was still good frozen one year later."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4375.37,"endTime":4375.83,"body":"I will say."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4375.83,"endTime":4377.15,"body":"She should put that on the front of her store."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4377.21,"endTime":4380.13,"body":"She should put that on the front of her store. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4380.15,"endTime":4382.11,"body":"if you're ever in Chicago, you should definitely hit up Pie Pie,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4382.21,"endTime":4383.09,"body":"My Darling. Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4383.77,"endTime":4385.41,"body":"But you're going to want to order ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4385.63,"endTime":4388.69,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I think she does have some, like, open hours where you can kind"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4388.69,"endTime":4390.31,"body":"of, like, peruse. I've got some of those cupcake things,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4390.37,"endTime":4393.65,"body":"And she makes really good cookies. Maybe some brown. I don't remember."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4393.79,"endTime":4395.65,"body":"But there is some stuff up there you can grab and go. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4395.65,"endTime":4397.79,"body":"But if you want any of the cakes, you kind of have to do a thing."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4398.05,"endTime":4401.05,"body":"Yeah, if you do a cake order, you have to place it ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4401.19,"endTime":4405.43,"body":"And then she also does this thing on Saturday mornings, like Saturday treat day or something. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4405.63,"endTime":4410.21,"body":"Where she basically, like, opens up part of her store for whatever's available."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4410.27,"endTime":4413.13,"body":"And then you can preorder it and then go pick it up, which is usually what we"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4413.13,"endTime":4414.31,"body":"do because we live far away."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4414.43,"endTime":4416.85,"body":"We don't want to drive all the way to Chicago and not have any cake."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4417.07,"endTime":4419.85,"body":"I think it's a little bit of a process because the demand is insane."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4419.85,"endTime":4422.89,"body":"And I imagine she'd have people just line up on the block if she just opened the door."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4425.55,"endTime":4427.03,"body":"Anyway, yeah. Yeah. That's one."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4427.23,"endTime":4429.07,"body":"So, Pie Pie, my darling. Go check it out."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4429.37,"endTime":4429.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4429.81,"endTime":4433.59,"body":"Number two, Peaceful Rebel Cheese. Not to be confused with Rebel Cheese."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4433.93,"endTime":4435.13,"body":"Which I confuse all the time."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4435.13,"endTime":4438.75,"body":"It's kind of confusing. This is Peaceful Rebel Cheese. It's actually one of"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4438.75,"endTime":4442.83,"body":"our favorite vegan cheese brands. The cheeses are pretty well-priced, honestly."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4443.17,"endTime":4446.51,"body":"Yeah, I really like their olive feta cheese. I love any kind of cheese with olives in it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4446.77,"endTime":4450.39,"body":"Oh, yeah. Their feta cheese is really good. And then they have this caramelized"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4450.39,"endTime":4455.95,"body":"garlic cheese that I could put away in a day. It's like super good."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4456.11,"endTime":4459.95,"body":"But the cool thing about Peaceful Rebel Cheese is a lot of their cheeses are tofu based."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4460.13,"endTime":4462.73,"body":"Yeah. So they have more protein than other vegan cheeses on the market."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4463.41,"endTime":4466.53,"body":"And she just has like a lot of interesting and tasty flavors."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4466.91,"endTime":4469.61,"body":"Yeah. So the company was originally founded in 2017."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4470.09,"endTime":4472.81,"body":"And actually, just a month or two ago, it changed ownership."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4472.95,"endTime":4477.83,"body":"And the new owner and head cheesemaker is a queer woman who is super, super nice."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4477.97,"endTime":4480.47,"body":"I've interacted with her on social media a few times and she just seems delightful."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4480.75,"endTime":4480.97,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4480.97,"endTime":4485.91,"body":"And I think, me personally, I think the best part is you can actually order all the cheeses online."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4486.11,"endTime":4488.99,"body":"Yeah. Like, they have them at a few brick and mortar stores if you're,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4489.01,"endTime":4491.21,"body":"like, local. Because I think they're out of Colorado."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4491.55,"endTime":4496.47,"body":"Yeah, yeah. But, like, we've ordered them online, like, several times. Yeah. And we buy a lot."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4496.89,"endTime":4500.17,"body":"And they actually sell Peaceful Rebel Cheese at Rebel Cheese locations."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4500.61,"endTime":4503.59,"body":"See? That's how popular they are. Even Rebel Cheese is like,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4503.65,"endTime":4505.59,"body":"hell yeah, Peaceful Rebel, keep doing you."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4507.43,"endTime":4512.47,"body":"so yeah we just wanted to highlight two lgbtq plus owned vegan brands that we"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4512.47,"endTime":4516.69,"body":"love this pride month um if you have any that you really like we would like"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4516.69,"endTime":4519.59,"body":"to hear about them because we searched and like we couldn't actually find a"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4519.59,"endTime":4523.49,"body":"lot yeah as far as like internet searching so if you have brands that you just"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4523.49,"endTime":4527.27,"body":"love and want to tell us about them we will buy their stuff yeah for sure"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4528.06,"endTime":4532.58,"body":"Oh, we're also going to have a little segment where I read the meanest thing"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4532.58,"endTime":4533.96,"body":"that got commented to me this week."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4534.1,"endTime":4534.48,"body":"Okay, let's do it."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4534.58,"endTime":4535.02,"body":"Is that okay?"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4535.64,"endTime":4535.96,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4536.62,"endTime":4539.4,"body":"Okay, I just thought it'd be kind of fun. I don't know that I'll have one every week."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4539.62,"endTime":4541.2,"body":"Mean tweets from protein deficient media."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4542.2,"endTime":4544.34,"body":"Apparently, some of my stuff is doing pretty well on Facebook,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4544.4,"endTime":4547.86,"body":"and there are a lot of mean people on Facebook. So I actually have a lot."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4547.98,"endTime":4549.48,"body":"But this is the one I got this morning."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4549.64,"endTime":4553.04,"body":"I just want to say, like, I don't know what's up with the Facebook audience,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4553.24,"endTime":4556.84,"body":"but it's like a whole different category of energy."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4557.44,"endTime":4559.4,"body":"than the other social media networks."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4559.66,"endTime":4561.18,"body":"Yeah. I wasn't prepared."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4562.48,"endTime":4563.28,"body":"So go ahead."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4563.6,"endTime":4568.96,"body":"It's a good thing I have really thick skin. So this is the one I got on my cheesy bean bowl video."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4569.26,"endTime":4569.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4570.34,"endTime":4576.3,"body":"Possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Beans and yeast. Jesus."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4576.7,"endTime":4579.02,"body":"Have a burger and talk to a woman, you wussy."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4581.68,"endTime":4585.06,"body":"That is one tough manly man right there."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4587.7,"endTime":4590.54,"body":"I'm still like, every time I read it, I crack up."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4590.68,"endTime":4591.56,"body":"Talk to a woman."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4591.72,"endTime":4593.88,"body":"Talk to a woman, you will see. I should talk to more women."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4595.24,"endTime":4598.56,"body":"All right. And get into a couple of little announcements we have."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4598.96,"endTime":4603.88,"body":"The book club raffle just wrapped up. If you didn't know, we did a raffle for"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4603.88,"endTime":4606.64,"body":"a couple of copies of the book for our first book club meeting,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4606.82,"endTime":4607.68,"body":"which was Eating Animals."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4608.04,"endTime":4611.28,"body":"So if you haven't joined the Discord yet, you should now."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4611.48,"endTime":4613.92,"body":"You can get in on the book club. or if your book club's not your thing,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4614.04,"endTime":4616.8,"body":"you can just get in and see us talk about the book club and chat about all the"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4616.8,"endTime":4617.86,"body":"other things we chat about in there."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4618.04,"endTime":4622.2,"body":"The book club is officially starting on June 22nd and that's going to be basically"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4622.2,"endTime":4625.34,"body":"where we tell you like how many pages we're reading and then we will,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4625.5,"endTime":4628.9,"body":"you know, start posting discussion questions and stuff in the Discord channel."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4629.06,"endTime":4633.06,"body":"It won't be like live call meetings that you need to call into. Right."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4633.78,"endTime":4638.08,"body":"But yeah, be there by June 22nd if you want to join the book club."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4638.22,"endTime":4640.64,"body":"And I think we've been talking about having a movie club too,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4640.64,"endTime":4644.16,"body":"but that's probably a next month or the month after kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4644.16,"endTime":4647.24,"body":"No you gotta figure out the logistics yeah how that works cause you kinda have"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4647.24,"endTime":4649.76,"body":"to like everybody has to watch their own movie yeah yeah a little weird."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4651.29,"endTime":4653.71,"body":"But there's some interest. You should join the Discord."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4654.25,"endTime":4657.29,"body":"Cool. Also, thank you for listening."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4657.53,"endTime":4661.65,"body":"If you're listening on Apple Podcast or Spotify, please leave us a rating and"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4661.65,"endTime":4663.13,"body":"review. That helps us out a lot."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4663.29,"endTime":4666.23,"body":"If you're listening on YouTube or Spotify, you can leave us comments."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4666.31,"endTime":4667.13,"body":"We can get back to you there."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4667.57,"endTime":4671.23,"body":"Also, our new website has the little voicemail thing."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4671.31,"endTime":4673.91,"body":"You can leave us a voicemail and we can either, if you want,"},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4674.11,"endTime":4677.33,"body":"we can potentially play the audio on the podcast and answer your questions."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4677.55,"endTime":4679.33,"body":"Or we can just read it and answer your questions."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4679.55,"endTime":4681.95,"body":"And it now has reviews, right? Because somebody left a review."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4682.33,"endTime":4683.67,"body":"Somebody left us a very nice review directly on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4683.67,"endTime":4685.81,"body":"Thanks for leaving us a nice review. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4686.27,"endTime":4689.21,"body":"Cool. Go join the Deficient Vegans Discord if you haven't already."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4689.35,"endTime":4690.51,"body":"That link is also in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4690.87,"endTime":4694.33,"body":"And if you want a shareable version of the things we talked about in the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4694.67,"endTime":4699.57,"body":"go check out the Deficient Vegans social media. We post them on Instagram and TikTok."},{"speaker":"Protein Deficient Vegan","startTime":4699.83,"endTime":4705.23,"body":"Yep. And also Facebook, but no one is there. Yet."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4705.63,"endTime":4710.95,"body":"All right. Yeah, so you can find all of our social medias and websites down in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Muscle Deficient Vegan","startTime":4711.05,"endTime":4713.77,"body":"Thanks for listening, everybody. Do you want to say bye? Bye, guys. Bye, everybody."}]}