DJs; Community or a Battlefield? Network or Compete? Ep#9
Feb 26, 2024Episode 9
Ilia & Nino
Have you ever wondered if the cutthroat competition rampant in the music industry is the only way to thrive? We, Ilia and Nino, challenge this notion head-on, sharing our journey from the humble beginnings at Off Centre DJ School to the successful careers we've built by embracing the power of community. In this episode of The Clever DJ, we weave through personal stories and invaluable lessons learned, unraveling the intricate dance of forging professional relationships, the art of networking, and the unspoken benefits that come from a community-focused mindset.
Listen closely as we dissect the delicate balance of competition and camaraderie in the DJ world, underscoring the pivotal roles of transparency and integrity. We dive into tough personal anecdotes about forgiveness and the unexpected opportunities that arise when maintaining professional etiquette, even in the face of past conflicts. Join us in celebrating the triumphs of collaboration over rivalry, as we encourage our peers to help each other grow—not just for individual gain, but for the enrichment of our entire industry. This isn't just about spinning tracks; it's about spinning a culture of support that uplifts us all.
Have you ever wondered if the cutthroat competition rampant in the music industry is the only way to thrive? We, Ilia and Nino, challenge this notion head-on, sharing our journey from the humble beginnings at Off Centre DJ School to the successful careers we've built by embracing the power of community. In this episode of The Clever DJ, we weave through personal stories and invaluable lessons learned, unraveling the intricate dance of forging professional relationships, the art of networking, and the unspoken benefits that come from a community-focused mindset.
Listen closely as we dissect the delicate balance of competition and camaraderie in the DJ world, underscoring the pivotal roles of transparency and integrity. We dive into tough personal anecdotes about forgiveness and the unexpected opportunities that arise when maintaining professional etiquette, even in the face of past conflicts. Join us in celebrating the triumphs of collaboration over rivalry, as we encourage our peers to help each other grow—not just for individual gain, but for the enrichment of our entire industry. This isn't just about spinning tracks; it's about spinning a culture of support that uplifts us all.
Welcome back to another episode of the Clever DJ with Ilia.
Nino:
Welcome back, guys. This is episode number 9. Last episode for this month. Yes, it is.
Ilia:
Alright. What do we have for them today, nino?
Nino:
Well, we have a question which is a pretty big, controversial question DJ community over competition Community or competition which one you guys would rather it's a pre cutthroat industry.
Ilia:
Anything in the music industry really is cutthroat. Music, acting arts, right, all the arts are pretty cutthroat in general. Yes, the way I see it, in anything in life and I'm not trying to be all philosophical, whatever, but in anything in life it's better to make friends rather than enemies. But that's also something a beginner would say, because you don't know where you are, what you're doing and you prefer to get more gigs and stuff like that. But I've experienced both ends of this topic.
Nino:
Before we move on, I'd like to give a shout out to my boy, chris Katari, from TTC. He's been listening to us a lot pretty regularly, so shout out to you man. Thank you, buddy.
Ilia:
Talk to you later, buddy. Yeah, from my own personal experience, I think that experiencing both if I could focus more on making friends and building community, that's what I personally want.
Nino:
Of course man.
Ilia:
That's where I actually excelled right.
Nino:
It's all about building community. You gotta make your connections Community over competition literally right. You want to just starting off, especially being a new DJ, you want to know as many DJs as possible to get you possibly gigs or get you in that bar. The more people you know, the more connected you are, the more chances of you getting more gigs.
Ilia:
Actually perfect example. We started our course right back in the day when I just started out back in the day, it was like a year ago. Last December was when we graduated, so just over a year. Wow, we came a long way.
Nino:
What school was it again it?
Ilia:
was Offcenter DJ, offcenter, dj school in Toronto, canada. Really good school, eric. Shout out to Eric Lar yes, so what I find is incredible is how community pushes you. Building community pushes you and anyone around you, anyone around you, like it's a ripple effect kind of thing. It pushes everyone forward and just creates so many beautiful connections more than what you would get normally. If you are very like you know you plan secretly and you don't want to share contacts with anyone and you don't want to tell others what you learned.
Nino:
It's different, too, when you're first learning everything. You guys are learning everything together, so everything is like really exciting as a class right? It helps you like learn new techniques and it gets you have something to talk about like the bond over, bond over.
Ilia:
So we started this community. Yeah Right, three of us. It was a class of like I think it was six.
Nino:
Just small classes, six Very hands on yeah.
Ilia:
I remember everyone just like right now I'm trying to count and everyone was really involved. One kind of did her own thing, but I'm sure if we message her today she'll still respond and, you know, join us whatever we're doing, as long as she was really busy actually with what she was doing. But the three of us we started a community and lots of people joined, we made lots of connections, we learned so many different interesting things about the industry and yeah, we kind of like are doing our own thing now.
Nino:
But that's normal.
Ilia:
But you know we're still keeping tabs on each other. You know, making sure that you know we're all doing well. You're always going to keep something to yourself and there's no, there's no secret here you're always going to.
Ilia:
You can't tell everyone all your moves and all your contacts and everything. Obviously it's something you got to keep to yourself. But there's some people they just don't do friends and I've noticed it Especially as a beginner. Some people just, no matter how good you are or how bad they are, it doesn't matter. Or how good they are, they don't wanna share contacts, they don't wanna share skills. I'm not saying I'm gonna come up to him or her and say hey, give me all your songs, give me all. I wanna know what you played that gig. Show me your entire playlist. No, like simple stuff, right.
Nino:
Yeah.
Ilia:
And they still very closed up.
Nino:
Some people are just not very sharing that way, right or very, they don't know how to socialize that way?
Ilia:
No, I'm not even talking about those people. I'm talking about extroverts, people who are awesome at making contacts. It's just that they are afraid if they'll say something they'll lose an opportunity or people will reign on their parade, and it can happen. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I believe if you live in fear like this, Well, those are insecurities.
Ilia:
now, yes, nobody can really be who. You are right, and if you have a strong connection somewhere, likely you'll keep it and everything will be fine. Sure, certain things, like I said, you don't risk. But hey, I'm a beginner, I'm learning, it's just my first kind of experience, you know first impression of this. I, just I much prefer the community being together and learning, helping each other.
Ilia:
Like if I learned a really cool transition or something like that, I was like, hey, check this out, like, try this, your next gig, right? And like I'll help them, I'll, I'll. I share music. We all share music with each other.
Nino:
And that's, that's the big thing. I mean, even with my like, I have a group of friends that we get together. You've seen us. So we do cut sessions right. So we get together once in a while, every like other month or something, and we literally share music, share techniques, show off. You know, it's more of like a bonding session with my guys. So that's that's what we do. And you've seen it, it's just, it's fun, it's just the whole. We drink, we talk about just what's going on with each other, we share secrets and stuff.
Ilia:
And yeah, and if anyone wants something you you share, right, yeah, but what if it's someone new? You know this is your group. You trusted them from the start. That's my group. I trusted them from the start. Trust you, you trust me. Let's say you know, I've been doing this for two, three, five, 10, 20 years. Somebody new comes along, I still feel and this is just, you know, my, that's how I feel and it's not based on experience, really that I will still be nice, I will still uplift them, I'll elevate that person because I'll remember how I used to be Right. Nothing's gonna happen to you. If you help someone, be smart. Don't tell them everything. Don't tell them all your moves and give them all your contacts, but you can help anyone and everyone.
Nino:
To some extent, You're genuine right. You want to genuinely help people, right.
Ilia:
And it never failed me.
Nino:
I'm telling you right now yeah, that's the thing about you. You're very genuine, you wear your heart on your sleeve and you're just a generally nice person. Right, you have good intentions always. Yeah, I'm trying to butter you up, but I am.
Ilia:
I'm trying to butter you up.
Nino:
I guess, stop it, stop it, stop it. But not everyone is like that and a lot of you don't know what other people are dealing with. Of course they have, of course. They're dealing with stuff at the time.
Ilia:
We all got our skeletons.
Nino:
Insecurities are a big thing, especially when it comes to DJing and stuff. Right, Wow, he does that transition so well, Like I can't do that, like he knows all these contacts. I finally got my first one.
Ilia:
I'm not sharing this with anyone. Yeah, stuff like that this is one place where a friend of mine started DJing and he was so nice about sharing the contact with everyone and hey, give it a shot, see if they have a slot for you. He didn't keep it to himself, thinking, well, I want to get all the slots, just in case. He just shared it with us. You know what? Only a couple of us got a slot, so he still got his own gigs there and everything was fine, did not affect him whatsoever.
Nino:
There you go, man. You are who you are. You are who you are. You can't help it right. You're a good person. You're a good person. You want to share everything with people.
Ilia:
But I'm saying, like you are who you are in terms of skill, yes, you're not going to lose something just because you shared it with someone. But again, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying be extremely naive and whatever, but also don't be so closed up and oh, I can't make friends in this industry. I've seen it so many times and I've just been doing this for like a year and a half right Approximately.
Nino:
Different experiences with me stuff. Well, as a business owner for me, I have a team, right. So I like to get gigs for my guys and there was this one instance Like I won't mention the actual company and whatever we had a falling out and whatever For pricing. I've been doing their events, all their grand openings, for like five, six, seven, Actually close to eight, nine years, right. So I had a very good relationship with them and I would get all my DJs to cover. Sometimes we'd have 10 openings, grand openings or appreciation days every weekend.
Ilia:
So I wouldn't be able to do this. Ladies and gentlemen, that's a very big company, very serious.
Nino:
Yes, if I said the name serious.
Ilia:
This guy started it all with him right. He started something new with them, to brand them, to help them out.
Nino:
So, yeah, I helped them out and then I would get this certain one guy that would that would help out. And I told him, like I told all my DJs actually, where we're not going to really work together with this company anymore Is the Aria. Long story short. We just just didn't work out it's just time to part ways, right. And I told all my guys like OK, please don't talk to management or whatever and do any gigs for them. But there was this one guy from my team that actually I think they contacted him separately.
Ilia:
And he probably given the impression they could. Yeah, you can do that. We'll talk about it in a second.
Nino:
Well it's. It really really made a really bad impression on me, especially as as their direct contact right, so he literally did events for them he started. The way I found out was really weird too. I found out from a friend that used to come to those events regularly and say, oh, there's a DJ here. How come it's not you? I'm like I told them straight up that we're not doing those events anymore because you know it didn't work out. But it's like oh, who's who? And then I asked them who happens to be the DJ? And then, and then she, she gets his business card from the guy. So that's how I found out. And then, and then she passed it and she took a picture of it and I was like wait a second.
Nino:
This is my guy yeah.
Ilia:
How angry were you, or so she did Right.
Nino:
I felt so, yeah, he's like, stabbed me in the back. I'm like yo. I told you straight up not to do this, not to get.
Ilia:
I rarely seen you angry.
Nino:
It's pissed me off, and I actually talked to him a couple of days after and I was yelling at him, I was, I was swearing at him. How could you do this? And whatever, whatever I literally I don't know. I wanted to like if he was in front of me, I would have like knocked him out.
Ilia:
Seriously, I was mad, I was upset because he heard your trust.
Nino:
It was, yeah, he broke my trust. He was one of my guys, right. So I'm like I told him specifically not to do it and he just did it behind my back and then after a few weeks, of course he couldn't, he wouldn't be able to do them. He didn't have like 15 DJs under his, his company, he is, he's only him.
Ilia:
So he ended up just leaving it alone, and you couldn't keep up. He said that he wasn't nor. He was nowhere as good.
Nino:
Yeah, yeah, there were, there was. He wasn't good at all and like the try to undercut your price?
Ilia:
He, literally, he undercut it.
Nino:
It was about money too as well. So he said I'd do it for this much, I'm bet, I'm betting he would Like say that. So yeah, it was just a really bad situation around and I just lost trust in him. It was like, man, I'm not getting this guy. I'm like like, literally F you. Man, I was so mad and that's, yeah, that's that's cut throat right there, man, and I understood because he's he was kind of new to the country and he's he wants more gigs and stuff like that. But still, man, it was, it's just bad.
Ilia:
It's just bad. So here's what happened. He did this and how many gigs. So you lost them too, because you couldn't keep up with him. And how many gigs did he lose with you?
Nino:
Quite a few, all of them, I wouldn't give it. But.
Ilia:
I'm saying, like, how many would you give him a year, for example, on average?
Nino:
at least like 10 to 15. And probably more the better you got right. Yeah, yeah and he actually specialized in a certain ethnicity as well, so that's why I get him for certain gigs and he was my DJ for this.
Ilia:
And then on top of that, like you know, there's other contacts you can give him and all of that stuff and it just really you just screwed yourself out of all of that. It is just to be dirty and do something like that. And again, we're not naive, we know why. We understand on some to some degree, to some degree, but still never going to really benefit you.
Nino:
It's tough. And then after like maybe six, seven years, he comes crawling back to me like, hey, man, do you have any events for me? I'm like how dare you ask me, like, for a gig? I can't believe he actually does that yeah, man the go.
Ilia:
When you told me I was like is this guy OK.
Nino:
Yeah, but you know I, have no self respect.
Ilia:
Yeah, the go on that guy.
Nino:
But whatever, whatever you know what I actually I'm actually keeping in touch with him and I'm trying to help him out too with his social media.
Ilia:
You're a good guy, but I can't help it, man.
Nino:
You can't hold grudges like that for too long. I held it for a long time, but I'm actually. I have gotten. I've gotten them gigs lately, so nice man.
Ilia:
Yeah, hopefully you learn the lesson.
Nino:
Hopefully. No, you know what he has, he he's. He always says sorry to me. I'm so sorry that I did that. He understands why I got mad.
Ilia:
At least whatever New beginnings.
Nino:
So I was like, ok, I can't hold this against him. He needs my help, he comes back to me and you know he's you won't trust in the same way.
Ilia:
And no, no.
Nino:
I always. You know, if you can do that to me, there's always I'm. I can forgive.
Ilia:
But I mean yeah, exactly yeah. So here's the thing, what I was going to say earlier. Let's speak about that bar gig that I'm probably bringing up for the third time in a couple of episodes, three episodes. Remember, that was not the first gig, but I was one of the biggest gigs where I kept having people coming back to me Because it was such a good gig, yeah, and I got I've impressed so many people, so I got so many people like so much, like business, coming in and I said, hey, you know, I want to make sure that you know, because I'm feeling weird about this, because, while I know that I'm representing you and your company when I'm there and not my company, mm-hmm, I Think a few people. I gave them my own personal information and at a time I thought it was okay and then I'm like was it okay? So here's the situation anyone from that birthday party in that room, any anyone from that, from those guests or Related to them, I was thinking you know what?
Nino:
Nine entertainment and that's actually standard with all companies here in the GT. It makes sense.
Ilia:
Yeah, make sense, right. So if, oh, what, what's, what's your company name? I'm DJ Ilya. Today I'm representing nine entertainment and that's yeah. And and like, do you work for anyone else? Yeah, I have my own company, but you know, whatever you know, like I, sometimes I won't even say it. Mm-hmm right, I just like it's not about that. And if they insisted, I just said I can't really talk about my company, but you know if you need any more information and I would.
Nino:
Divert into your, you would have social media.
Ilia:
That's the right thing to do in a nice way, kind of like you, to show them that can't talk about myself right now, right and. But then people came from upstairs because we were in the basement and they came from upstairs and like they're looking into the room and like what are they doing. And then the actual birthday girl and she showed up and she said, oh, these people are interested in hiring you. So people are coming in From from upstairs and I'm just like giving them my information. I did say, I think, to a couple of them that I'm working for another company, but but I started giving them my own information. So I come to you and I let you know, backstabber, and and you tell me you're, you were cool about it. No, I'm fine.
Nino:
It's, it's it's different situation with me and him. We have a kind of an understanding in terms of that. You know, I know he's just starting out and he's, you know, he's trying to build, build himself and I wasn't Conniving.
Ilia:
You know, like now, if you didn't even bring that up and I wasn't like I Was, I was honest about it.
Nino:
Yeah, that's the whole thing. If you're honest about it, that at the get-go, then there's no malice I'm trying to say there was.
Ilia:
It was not malicious. I came to him and said, hey, is this ethically correct? Because I don't know. It was the first time I experienced it on that level and you know what it was. It kind of started a really nice thing for us, like I got this really good contact for Photobooths, 360 photo booths and a bunch of other stuff. Even I didn't know what they do when you know, until I spoke to the manager there, the owner, and now, instead of you know, creating a package and making money every time he hires them or, like you know, he gets them for a gig, which is a lot of gigs. So I just gave up, gave you the contact right Now. I know most people won't do that. They don't share contacts like that, so for us it works. Find your own solution right, like there's no one size fits all.
Nino:
Yeah Right, we have a special, different understanding. I'm sure other people will have different opinions on stuff like this, but different stances. But this is just how we're working.
Ilia:
Yeah, in my opinion, the way I saw it, if the party that you're, the gig that you're at, anyone from that gig or anyone from them like related to them, asks you, that's the person who hired you?
Nino:
Yeah, because you wouldn't be there in the first place if you didn't get you to do that gig.
Ilia:
But I thought anyone from the outside, somebody heard you on the street.
Nino:
That's besides the point. You wouldn't be there if I didn't get you to get this gig.
Ilia:
So that's what took me. It took me a moment to like understand that.
Nino:
Working for any company here in Toronto and probably everywhere. It's going to be the same all across the board. That's just how it is.
Ilia:
So that's another beginner moment and something I learned months ago. And there was another moment where they came to me and said listen, would you? You're a smaller company, you're starting out, would you do this gig for less money? And I literally told them I'm not very comfortable talking about this because I'm not supposed to sell you my services. I'm here representing him.
Nino:
What you can do is you can direct them to the company and to ask about you. That's the proper way to do it.
Ilia:
Yeah, so that's if you're like working professionally with someone. I called you like a few minutes later and said, hey, they're saying that and you were kind of relieved because it made sense for you to let them go. Right, you wanted them to get a better deal. And then it wasn't really working out for you because it was just too low.
Nino:
It's just too low and I can let go of smaller gigs. Usually, smaller gigs will just end up for more smaller gigs, right? More the same kind of gigs.
Ilia:
But for me it worked out because it was perfect for what I needed the price, the experience and yeah, that was fun, that was incredible.
Nino:
That works out, man.
Ilia:
Yeah, so what do you have to say?
Nino:
Well, in terms of building relationships, you know I own my own company and to build relationships and to have a team, you have to find DJs right, so it takes a certain kind of person to have a stable of DJs in particular. So of course, you got to meet DJs who are up to par to your standards as well, right? So you have to treat them well. You have to pay them well as well, I think. For me, I try to pay my guys very well so they're still loyal to me and they won't find any outside sources, other companies and stuff. Like, compared to other companies, I think I'm pretty sure I do. I do pay a lot more and I pride myself on that, because you know I want to work with the best and to be the best. You have to be the best, right. You're only as strong as your weak link, right?
Ilia:
So that's how I work. Yeah, and it took you a while to hire me for certain gigs until I was able to prove myself and you even gave me a chance again. It's a bit of a different situation because he was mentoring me, so he gave me a chance and then I proved myself and he gave me a few more and a couple more.
Nino:
I would only give you gigs that I knew that you could do.
Ilia:
Yes, I appreciate it, because I did not want to crash in burden right.
Nino:
Of course I'm not going to throw you into a wedding when you're not ready for it. There's no way.
Ilia:
With every gig I got better and you gave me a few more, and then I started getting my own gigs and now you're considering me for so much more right, and at some point it's just business. There's no, there's no personal stuff. Man, I have to get you what you're level.
Ilia:
You know I have to take care of my business and the reputation, so I'm very careful with who I send where what gig right, it has to match, and I appreciate it, because actually, you know, I see this guy Like there's just so much opportunity and all I gotta do is get a little better, a little better, a little better.
Nino:
I keep telling you, man, if you're ready for them. Once you're ready, I will throw you to the wolves.
Ilia:
Or, specifically speaking about weddings right now I haven't done a wedding by myself yet, so that's the next step. I've done pretty much any other gig, really Well, the main ones but a wedding, you know, I wouldn't mind doing it with somebody I'm seeing, but if I had to MC a tune, no bro I think I would be able to do okay, but I don't wanna do okay. I wanna do amazing. You don't wanna risk that?
Nino:
for a couple, right, you don't wanna do that for their, because I actually care about the gig.
Ilia:
That's what I love about this industry that I actually care about it. A lot of people do it just for the money.
Nino:
That's the thing you have to care. That's why I get older DJs with something to lose right. Usually they have families and stuff, but older DJs. They just care more than, rather than a younger person who just wants it for a paycheck right so older DJs older people will care and put their all and make sure that they represent right, and that's what I'm looking for.
Ilia:
Start with conscious too right.
Nino:
Yeah, of course.
Ilia:
So I'm just thinking to myself what if I hired a DJ and they would just not care about the gig?
Nino:
I would be so furious with them. I'd be so pissed man Right.
Ilia:
And it could be such a milestone in your life, whether it's a wedding, an important birthday or something right A reveal like a gender reveal or whatever right it could be anything. And then that DJ, who's supposed to like hype it all up and make it fun, could completely like flop your night. So you don't want to be that guy.
Nino:
That's why I was very careful with what I say yes to and you were careful what you were saying yeah, I know better, Because it's bitten me in the ass before literally.
Ilia:
So yeah, I mean, I think we can both agree that community Community over competition right, and there'll always be sour DJs, sour companies undercutting you.
Nino:
But it also worsens, like our standard for like pricing and stuff right. So it's just not a win-win for everyone if you continue that way.
Ilia:
Yeah, I think both are important competition and community. But I think community definitely. There is competition like it's healthy.
Nino:
It's healthy to have competition, yeah, of course it's necessary.
Ilia:
I'm just saying that I think we're both agreed. Community is more important, of course. Of course it needs to be the bigger part right, it needs to be the bigger part. Everybody has to yeah, and so if any one of you has a chance to help someone. Don't be naive, but help someone. Go for it feels amazing. Pay it forward, Pay it forward yeah to the line Amen. Well, thank you very much for joining another episode of the Clever DJ.
Nino:
Episode nine yes, episode nine. Yeah, man, I'm so happy man, my name is Ilya, my name is Nino yes, man, I'm proud of us.
Ilia:
Amen, we did it. We did we did.
Nino:
We'll see you guys in the next one. And yeah, more to come, more to come, great topics coming up. All right, guys, thank you.