The best time to upgrade you gear - Ep #11

Have you ever felt the itch to get your hands on the latest DJ gear, wondering if it's the missing piece to elevate your performances? Prepare to navigate the glossy allure of new tech with us, Ilia and Nino, as we discuss the pivotal moments that signal it's time for an upgrade. From the magnetic charm of the Rain 1 to the Pioneer DDJ-SZ's loyal service, we share our trek through the equipment landscape, offering insights on how to discern between gear envy and genuine needs. We'll even touch on the pesky bugs in Serato and Pioneer SB2 that might push you towards that shiny new purchase. 

Take a walk down memory lane with our very first controllers as we weigh the sentiment against strategy. You'll hear from us about our own DJ setups, spanning from the Rane Twelves to the beloved Technics 1200s, and how we grapple with the hoarder within. Whether you're torn between the charm of vintage or the efficiency of modern equipment, or debating the benefits of owning against renting for that next big gig, this episode promises a candid exploration into making choices that resonate with both your heartstrings and your wallet. Join the conversation and find out how to strike that perfect balance in the dynamic world of DJing.

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Transcript

Ilia: 0:20

Welcome back to another episode of the Clever DJ with Ilia.

Nino: 0:24

And Nino. This is episode number 11. 11., 11. 11.

Ilia: 0:30

Alright, what do we have today?

Nino: 0:30

brother. Um, okay, so we have another topic for you guys. I hope you guys are excited for this one. We are Um. Question is when does it make sense to upgrade?

Ilia: 0:43

your DJ gear Every time something else comes out, because?

Nino: 0:47

it's so awesome.

Ilia: 0:49

Oh, Stams, let's get it. Oh, we're in platter, right, let's get it yeah exactly.

Nino: 0:53

You know what. That's actually why I upgraded to my Rain 1. But you know what? It was actually a downgrade for me because I had the Pioneer DDJ-SZ and that was the flagship controller for so long and it had everything on it On board effects, four channels, great microphone inputs, two microphone inputs.

Ilia: 1:19

Didn't you have the limited edition one?

Nino: 1:22

No, I just added that skin. Oh, right From yeah, so I had that, but I decided to get the Rain 1. And you know what? It made sense because I was trying to learn scratching and do turntablism stuff. So it made sense. But in a lot of ways I kind of downgrade it, but yeah.

Ilia: 1:46

I'm still happy with it that one is discontinued right.

Nino: 1:50

The SZ yes.

Ilia: 1:51

It came out with an.

Nino: 1:52

SZ2, but nothing else after that. Was that better? There was only a couple of differences. I knew it had Serato Flip where you can change the tracks and make it how you were. There was a couple of other things, but not too big of differences. I was just curious.

Ilia: 2:10

But it's not just that that was. It's not the only reason why you upgraded that one right. It made sense for you. It did make sense. That's why I did it. It's the kind of DJ you were.

Nino: 2:21

Yes, yes, I was actually scratching on the SZ, but I found it was very limiting. You need that spinning platters to learn properly how to DJ on the next scratch.

Ilia: 2:34

That's why I don't scratch, because mine don't move.

Nino: 2:37

So you should get one too right.

Ilia: 2:39

I still don't get the logic. I don't understand how you're supposed to know where it is and how far to pull it back and always land on the word you want to scratch. It's still. I'm just starting out. This is too much for me to even comprehend.

Nino: 2:52

It's totally different, man. It's the art of DJ. Now, baby scratch, baby scratch, all day.

Ilia: 2:58

Right, and that's something Just to drop the track.

Nino: 3:01

Yeah Well, that's something that you've learned. That's the first fundamental thing about scratching, but that's another topic man, oh my. God yeah. So for newbies it's really hard to not want to upgrade, because there's like new shiny stuff coming out every month, right? So how do you control yourself from wanting to buy gear and stuff, right?

Ilia: 3:24

All right, we're going to cut for a second. I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you what I was going to start with and what I actually started with. All right, so I started with this one, right here.

Nino: 3:35

For those who are just listening to us, he's pulling out another DJ controller right now. It's the SB2 Pioneer.

Ilia: 3:41

Yes, and I got it, I think in 2015, or I got it 2015 or 2016. See you soon.

Nino: 3:48

Yeah, this is before you even met me.

Ilia: 3:50

Yeah, way before when I first decided to give it a shot, and I did not understand anything about this for a while, even though Someone who's we're still friends, someone still showing me you know who was who took me. He took me to a couple gigs Like what up to like? No, she took me for a few gigs. Yeah they're me to like 10 gigs total.

Ilia: 4:11

I started understanding the logic, but it was still complicated and I, just I gave up so you got that controller just to learn on yeah, and If I know more about controllers, back then I'd go for something a bit more expensive, but I thought this was enough and really it is enough. Honestly, it is enough. Right now they have a weird bug on Serato, so you can only use it up until a certain version and then, if you, if you use it with the latest ones, or even one that's later than that one, you'll see the jog wheels like spinning super fast on Serato. Yeah.

Ilia: 4:46

I saw that out, that was a known bug which has no fix, apparently. If anyone knows anything about it, let us know. And then there's one more.

Nino: 4:53

He has another controller, which is it's his controller now that he's using currently.

Ilia: 5:00

Nothing against that one. I Actually take it as my backup controller, but I got this one. I Got this one because the person was teaching me back then.

Nino: 5:12

You wanted to get the same thing. This is what he had. No, he had the sx2.

Ilia: 5:15

Oh, okay, okay which is pretty much yeah, so he has the pioneer DDJ SR2. Yes, I have the SR2, which is really Everything you need to just start. You don't need anything else. I actually went up in price by $100. I think, yes.

Nino: 5:31

What is it? Is it it's a more pro beginner? It's like it's an intermediate controller.

Ilia: 5:36

It's an entry-level pro controller.

Nino: 5:38

Yeah, yeah, exactly based on that and the you can tell by the mat there master outs.

Ilia: 5:42

Yes, yes, yes, right, so that you don't need anything else this is. Okay.

Nino: 5:54

He babies all his his stuff. I do, I do.

Ilia: 5:59

But I Upgraded as a newbie. You said, oh, newbies, like you know, watch out. Because I was like, oh, I need pro gear to start, and I'm not saying this is the pro like gear that you know I I Was expecting to get. I just realized how expensive it gets. So I found something that was familiar to me and, yeah, something I wanted to get. In a very long time Later I was thinking, if I had just skipped the SB2 and just use the SB2, I would have just gotten the new flock of flagships. I would have gotten the FLX 10 Right, because that this was a thousand dollars plus tax, 999, it's like 1100 now.

Nino: 6:39

So not not cheap at all. It's not cheap at all, it's, it's pricey the FLX 10s. What around $2,000 okay, that's an Indian, yeah that's I would.

Ilia: 6:46

I would get it if I didn't spend a thousand on that. I would get it Mm-hmm right, but there's no way I'm getting it now when I have something. It's good enough, yeah and that's the thing.

Nino: 6:55

There's no, there's no need to get a new controller. I believe you should be able to use all of the functions on the controller that you have at the moment and Literally outgrow the controller that. That it's, it's just okay. I need something else to, to, like, heighten my skills, because I know everything that ins and outs and I have to, you know, get better at DJing right, and if the controller that you have right now is actually Hindering your process, your real progress, then yeah, that's, that's a really, really good.

Ilia: 7:32

Yeah, it's affecting your performance, then definitely get something else, not necessarily gonna affect your performance, but it would.

Nino: 7:40

It would just make things a better.

Ilia: 7:42

What about Stems like? Wouldn't that be a better performance if you had access to stems easily on the controller?

Nino: 7:49

Yeah, but you can have access on that as well.

Ilia: 7:52

Yeah basic controllers, stuff too as well, right, which is when I learned how to MIDI map the stems onto some. You know areas of the control that I never use.

Nino: 8:02

Mm-hmm.

Ilia: 8:02

I was like, okay, well, I don't really need a dedicated button for it.

Nino: 8:05

Are you really using stems right now, anyway?

Ilia: 8:07

I'm.

Nino: 8:09

Today.

Ilia: 8:10

I showed you how to. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like I thought I'll give you a flex, then it's a perfect controller, it has everything, but that's that's that's the thing, man. Well, that's what it just. It's just one of them.

Nino: 8:23

You just want it right, and a lot of DJs will fall into that, like all the new, the newest stuff, right, I gotta get it. It's gonna make me a better DJ. Is it really, though? I?

Ilia: 8:35

Want the ring 12? Oh. My god, that's such a nice setup. I know right you like it, which. What mixer do you have again?

Nino: 8:44

That pioneer a 11. That's like the industry standard for him for scratching, and they have a.

Ilia: 8:52

Guy on YouTube, I forget his name. He has that really cool setup where they go into the table. You don't like it. I think Rick Webb.

Nino: 8:59

Yeah, it's okay. I don't want to bring that. That's actual. That whole table, it's just so nice. It's really nice, right, but that the logistics and bring it, put it in your car, then assembling it at the the gig, and then you show other other equipment too. It's like it doesn't make sense Unless you have, honestly, two people and you have a trailer as well. I think he has a van, he has a trailer, he has a trailer. Was that hitch and and and what's it?

Nino: 9:30

We're talking about the same guy I. I'm talking about Rick.

Ilia: 9:33

Webb. Okay, I think I'm talking about someone else.

Nino: 9:36

You're just talking about someone else.

Ilia: 9:37

A lot of people have it right.

Nino: 9:40

Yeah, well, all you guys in the States like Rick Webb, Nick Spinelli, for sure Jay Book now has one of those tabletop setups.

Ilia: 9:53

It looks so clean and it's just impressive. Even to someone who's already a DJ. Imagine a client who never saw anything like that. It looks just pro right. So, and that's as a beginner like I want it, there you go.

Nino: 10:07

Is it gonna make you a better DJ? No, you're spending not a knee to a knee. How much?

Ilia: 10:13

is it.

Nino: 10:13

It's thousands, Bro. That one, that tabletop, it comes from $2,000 to $5,000. I saw a cheaper one too, but and these are, this is US, so convert it still. It's still a lot more way more.

Ilia: 10:29

I met a couple from the US on a Valentine's Day date and we asked them, like how do you like hand Like, is it like? Are you like is that a good experience? And they said one of the best things was like how much cheaper things were for them because of their conversion.

Nino: 10:50

Oh for sure, their conversion is the reason.

Ilia: 10:52

And yeah, they just loved it here. For sure, man, that wasn't the main reason, but that was just one of the things they said. I can't imagine buying certain products at their price.

Nino: 11:07

Well, they earn US dollar too, so it makes sense and they earn more there.

Ilia: 11:11

I think they do for DJs, yeah not just DJs, same positions, I know in IT. They earn so much more than yeah, yeah, so much more.

Nino: 11:20

It's just the way it is. I know we're kind of behind here, and especially when it comes to economy and pricing and stuff, yeah yeah, but we're in Canada, toronto Canada, we're Toronto DJs. So the six you know yeah man, so yeah.

Nino: 11:35

so another reason why you should upgrade your DJ gear is maybe you wanna do like clubs or you wanna do bigger shows too, right? So you have to learn how to use club standard gear like CDJs and stuff, so that makes sense. You can also find places to play on, like to rent, and to use them too, but it's different when you actually own the actual gear, if you have the money, if your budget permits, right.

Ilia: 12:08

Well, yeah, one of my friends, she really her goal was to just do lounges clubs and she's doing pretty well now, very proud of her, and we start together. You know, I know you're talking about that, yeah, so it was really awesome to see her progress and she used to go to these two spots and then this one spot that was the best one for practicing on CDJ setup. Now it was really out of her way. It was like a two-hour drive of things. She lives like even more east than where you are Okay, and she said at some point it just makes no sense financially and her time and everything, and she just wants more access to it, not just an hour or three hours at a time right Once a week.

Ilia: 13:00

So she got the XZ, yes, and it's like the closest thing you can have to a CD set up.

Nino: 13:06

Yeah, yeah.

Ilia: 13:07

And she got so much better so fast. Right, I can see your Instagram posts and everything. I mean sure you got to practice, but she gets to know, not just once a week, of course, of course. So I mean that was a good reason to upgrade, really good reason.

Nino: 13:25

Yeah, yeah, for sure. If you want to do bigger shows, If your equipment is outdated like old now, it's a good reason to actually upgrade. I would think actually most pros don't want to upgrade.

Ilia: 13:45

You get comfortable with your gear. You get really comfortable with your gear Right.

Nino: 13:49

So they don't want to upgrade because they're they're just, they're good at using what they have.

Ilia: 13:55

You should declutter, you should get rid of some of your.

Nino: 13:58

I'll take it. The thing is that's that's old school mentality, right? I'm not really. I'm old school, but I'm still. I'm trying to stay current as well, so what?

Ilia: 14:06

do you have? Let's list your gear. Let's go.

Nino: 14:09

I have the rain one, I have the Pioneer DDJ Rev one. I have the the rain twelves with the S 11 mixer. I have technique 1200s MK twos with the DJM S nine mixer as well. I have a new mark to go touch. Oh, you still have that. Yeah, I still have it. I hardly use it, right, so but it's some, it's a backup. Yeah, I don't really take it out much, but yeah it's good to have. Right, just in the back of your pocket.

Ilia: 14:43

And that's just that's it for controllers, that's it for for for controllers.

Nino: 14:48

But you know I'm gonna usually I'm gonna rotate and get some new stuff.

Ilia: 14:53

You have so many things in your shelves. I do.

Nino: 14:55

Oh my gosh, so much like speakers. I have a lot of battery powered stuff PS 15, piece of the parasource ones. I have QSE K 12s.

Ilia: 15:07

I have so much lights and you get rid of a lot of stuff, a lot over the years. Right that you would have had so much more. I had to.

Nino: 15:13

I had to make too much stuff. I'm like I'm like a gear hoarder, literally. So I fall into a category like when I first started. I'd like to get stuff that I think I'm going to use, but then I realized when I get it, I don't end up using it, so I'm just wasting money.

Ilia: 15:30

Well, what do you think about the fact that I never want to sell my SB two, because it was like my very first controller?

Nino: 15:36

That's what you're saying now. One day, one day, you're going to end up sell it Well the thing is it's better to sell it now while you can get some money for it. How I started?

Ilia: 15:44

Well, yeah, right, I mean, is it that big of a deal? I guess I guess you know, gone to my head, I don't have to keep it. Yeah, but I mean what am I going to make up of it? Think about it. It was like three or four hundred bucks when I bought it.

Nino: 15:55

Yeah, it's not. It's not really worth. How much is it worth now?

Ilia: 15:59

I don't think it's worth it 50 hundred bucks.

Nino: 16:01

Maybe Probably we can get something out of that. Yeah, but 200.

Ilia: 16:06

The, the DJ 200s now and 400s.

Nino: 16:10

I sent you that link right. It's $200.

Ilia: 16:13

I saw that one like a while ago. I almost bought it because I wanted to almost buy another one, but that's because I wanted to DJ on the go with a phone or something like you know, a new record box, that's that's the to go.

Nino: 16:24

That's the new one, the smallest one that that is sold out everywhere. Yeah, that's the one that everybody wants right To start a controller.

Ilia: 16:33

Yeah, so those are being sold for like 200. So that one would probably get sold for like anywhere from 80 to 120. Just not worth it. Yeah, I guess I mean it's better for me to keep it as a backup. So once I get my FLX10 or whatever it is I'm going to get, my SR2 will be my backup, but this I'll never sell.

Nino: 16:54

We'll see about that.

Ilia: 16:55

I won't sell my SR2 as well. My next controller I'll sell. Yeah, because I'm not going to start, but if we start our other projects then we could use all those controllers. So that's what I'm saying. Unless you have a reason to keep it, I think my first one or two, I won't sell them.

Nino: 17:15

I'm like sentimental about that stuff. You're sentimental man.

Ilia: 17:17

Ah, man Like microphone stuff like that I may be okay with like getting rid of right For my production. I have my first condenser. I'm keeping that one, that's it Like speakers, like I don't mind. Plus, I'll sell them for so much more.

Nino: 17:33

Yeah, it depends on the brand and stuff too right.

Nino: 17:36

If you're doing certain events and you find yourself DJing for bigger, larger crowds, you need to upgrade and get more equipment like more sound right In terms of speakers and stuff. So that's a good reason to upgrade on its own right there, because as a wedding DJ, you find you're DJing for, like an average, 100, 120, 130 people. But lately I've been doing a lot of proms and bigger weddings, like I did a couple 300 person weddings the past couple of months and yeah, no one that's coming up the new client for 500 people or something like that.

Ilia: 18:16

400 people, 400 people, yeah, yeah.

Nino: 18:19

So I've had to upgrade my speakers and stuff. And keep in mind you don't technically need to buy it because there's places you can rent right. But the thing is I like to own my stuff, I like to have it. I don't want the hassle of returning it the next day or picking it up.

Ilia: 18:38

You don't know what you're going to get.

Nino: 18:39

Yeah, exactly, you're going to pick it up one day and then you're going to find that it's all gone or it doesn't work. Well, yeah, well, hopefully they like Glamor, they don't sell it, like give you something like that.

Ilia: 18:55

But who knows where? Everyone is in the world watching us, listening to us. So I trust Long McQuaid.

Nino: 19:02

Yeah, but wherever you guys are, I've always gotten good stuff from them. Yeah, I don't know where you guys are. If you guys can't speak for that In the States, I think it's like oh my gosh, I have no idea what you guys have.

Ilia: 19:14

The Guitar Center. Guitar Center yes, Did it close or something. No, no, no, no. Guitar Center is closed.

Nino: 19:19

It's still pretty strong in the States, I know that for sure. So Guitar Center, if you can always rent stuff as well. But I like myself, I like to buy my own stuff right, oh, sweetwater, sweetwater.

Ilia: 19:30

That's online, though, right.

Nino: 19:31

Yes, that's an online sort of thing.

Ilia: 19:33

Yeah yeah. Good prices though. Yeah yeah, it's like the Amazon of Exactly exactly.

Nino: 19:38

And that actually leads into my next thing, the next statement, which is buying new or used gear.

Ilia: 19:50

New all the time. Oh, you all the time you know what. Let me tell you something. If I don't know much about whatever I'm buying like as a beginner DJ or a beginner, I don't know you scared me. I thought you're going to spill that all over the roadcaster, but my coffee. But yeah, to those who were listening, he was just.

Nino: 20:12

I'm swishing it around because I'm at the bottom and it's all black at the bottom, so I'm like I'm trying to mix it up.

Ilia: 20:18

Do you want to pause Making you coffee, are you sure? Yeah, all right, so this guy likes to buy.

Nino: 20:24

He's really finicky on buying new gear. Well, you know what?

Ilia: 20:27

Let me tell you this I mean it makes sense If I can test it and know for a fact that I know what I'm getting because, let's say, computers, I'm good with computers. But even with computers there are certain things that I can sell right now. I guarantee you that unless it's been a month or two or you used it for certain applications, you'll never know that something's actually wrong with it. Right, I can do that right now and you'll never know, and I can sell it for a pretty high price. So, knowing how easy it is and how many people like that are in the world, I choose to go with that warranty, go with that easy return or whatever, and I don't care paying double the price. But if it's something that I'm a pro and I know how to test it and there's very minimal kind of margin for error and wear and tear, then yeah, go for it.

Ilia: 21:19

But I don't know. You got a MacBook Pro.

Nino: 21:22

How do you know? I'm surprised, man. I checked it really really thoroughly. I didn't know what to look for.

Ilia: 21:27

Unless you opened it, you did not check it thoroughly. Yeah, you opened it, like I mean opened it. Oh, yeah, open it. How would you know?

Nino: 21:33

For sure. Well, I checked it and checked the stats.

Ilia: 21:35

Maybe I'm extra, I don't know. But yeah, he likes to buy new stuff.

Nino: 21:40

I buy new stuff too as well, but I'm not opposed to looking on Kijiji or Facebook Marketplace, finding a good deal, especially if it's very used like, not so used. I would like to I go to the actual place and make sure that it's lightly used your MacBook Pro was like pretty much brand new. It was brand new, yeah, your.

Ilia: 22:02

Rain 12s were also.

Nino: 22:04

Yes, that's a good deal. That's something I would get.

Ilia: 22:07

If I got that deal, I would get it now.

Nino: 22:09

Yes, yes and I look for the deals. I am actually scouring all the time Like I'm actually looking for new speakers, different controllers, and I'm just looking right. I can tell if it's still in good condition or whatever, and I would verify that on the spot when I actually meet up with the person. I have turned down certain products which I wanted to get, but it didn't turn out like the condition that I really wanted to Like. It didn't satisfy me so I did have to do that. But I'm not opposed to getting new stuff. You can really save some money when you get secondhand stuff, so I'll keep buying you.

Ilia: 22:49

You can keep buying new right, but I'm good with some of the stuff. You know what I was gonna get used? What the FLX4.? Because I wanna have it for those, like you know, djing with your phone. I just wanna grab the controller, grab the phone, maybe one little cable and that's it. But the used stuff right now costs as much as the new stuff this is with OutTax. Because it's unavailable anywhere and people know that the demand is high. So if it was 100 bucks cheaper, I'd buy it used 100%.

Nino: 23:23

The.

Ilia: 23:23

DDJ 200, you have no choice but to buy it used. 400, no choice but to buy it used no don't ask. I'm not saying I'll buy everything new, but my main controller are you kidding me? My main computer, Are you kidding me?

Nino: 23:34

There's no way. There's no way, of course, if you're gonna use it all the time, all the time, for everything.

Ilia: 23:38

We should do a poll one day and see what people think. Yeah in the future for sure, for sure.

Nino: 23:44

okay, the next thing that we have is oh, the difference between buying. Do you buy impulse? Are you really impulsive?

Ilia: 23:52

Oh my God super Over the last like five to six years. I started maybe longer, but I think especially over the last four, five, six years. Yeah, I started kind of telling myself okay, you want that couch, or you want that fridge, or you want that computer or you want You're an impulse buyer and I was like Fine, I'm not blaming you earlier, you want it? Cool, give it a week. Yeah, if after a week you can just still justify it, going by the nicest one.

Nino: 24:18

Yeah.

Ilia: 24:19

Nine out of ten times. Nine point nine out of ten times. I don't end up making that purchase with that logic. Yeah, when I think about it like I really don't need it. It doesn't matter how much money I have. I could have all the money in the world for that. Yeah, I stopped impulse buying, like pretty much Always know.

Nino: 24:36

I found a system. Oh, the thing is, amazon makes it so easy to Impulse buy. Even if you impulse buy, it doesn't matter, because you can always return it if you don't like it. Yeah right, so yeah, I Used to be an impulse buyer. Like I see something new, I'm like, oh my god, yeah, exactly when I go into Longham equate the music store here, I can't leave without buying something like whether it's just like a Accord or or a little gadget.

Ilia: 25:06

My girl won't walk in the store with me. A long equate. Or any other music store? She will not. Or a computer store, she will not. Walk into one of those with me because it it's literally like, like dragging a child out of like exactly store. I'm like no, no.

Nino: 25:22

No, I didn't check this aisle yet. A minimum of 45 minutes to two hours I would stay there and just you know lunch, just feel happy, like yeah, it's like I'm a kid in a candy store.

Ilia: 25:34

It's like, even like everything's just it's there Like you're gonna leave you're in heaven, right Like. I love it.

Nino: 25:45

Exactly so. Yeah, impulse buying, necessity, buying when you really need it, and this is the thing, right? I? I urge all DJs, especially if you're starting out, to buy as you need it, like if you're, for example, if you're DJing a certain event and you need this certain light, that they're looking for strobe light and you don't have it, then buy, yeah like and rent it unless you can rent it from long equate or another music store you can rent it to the next week to see what I purchased, and yeah, I guess.

Ilia: 26:26

Lastly, you can actually borrow right from your friends. I mean, don't be that guy, hey can you use your thing today, or hey Can like, and every week you ask for something. I have friends to do that. Make sure, if you actually ask for stuff, you're also always giving stuff because I'm the guy who has everything, so everybody asks me for stuff. It's like getting a truck and then Everyone's your friend. Oh you want help me move next week.

Ilia: 26:52

Yeah just like, if you're gonna ask for something you know, contribute. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, because I had no gear whatsoever. I had nothing you need, like I had to ask you for speakers. You gave me your speaker stands.

Nino: 27:08

Had extra ones. That's my third pair. These are your headphones, yeah.

Ilia: 27:13

So, yeah, it's nice, it just it's also like sentimental, like I like it, like you know, like things have Certain effect on you when you don't don't go those away. No, I won't. I, like I said, I changed the Pad here. Yeah, the earmuffs yeah they were pretty gross, but yeah. Really gross now. It's like brand new. But yeah, you can. You can lend your stuff to your friends, your colleagues, right, people in the industry and you can Borrow.

Ilia: 27:43

That's also fun when you don't want to buy something but you just want to, just want to test it out.

Nino: 27:47

Well, you want to use it. Yeah, you'll see if you want it to get it right. So, yeah, it's good. It's good to try stuff out. We covered everything covered pretty much everything. So buy gear as you need and don't buy out of necessity. All right guys, we guys like this podcast by out of the necessity. By out of the.

Ilia: 28:14

Sessi thank you very much and tune in for the next episode next week. This is episode number 11.

Nino: 28:20

We'll see you in the next one, guys.