Getting used To It: The Thought You Felt Guilty For Having

"Not fair. I want that too."

That's the first honest reaction we had reading Molly Roden Winter's writing about her open marriage — and it sent us somewhere way deeper than gossip.

Because the real spark isn't who dates whom. It's the shock of watching someone actually pause, ask herself what she wanted, and make a conscious choice about her relationship instead of just... following the default script.

In this episode, we get into mononormativity — the cultural gravity that makes monogamy feel like the only civilized option — and why so many of us were conditioned to believe that even wondering makes us the bad guy. We dig into the research on relationship and sexual satisfaction across monogamy, ethical nonmonogamy, and open relationships (including why the findings are genuinely mixed, and why "what matches your values" will always matter more than picking the supposedly correct structure).

Then we go to the messy, human middle: jealousy, the fear of not being enough, and the identity earthquake that hits a long-term marriage when one person starts asking who they are beyond wife and mom. We also wrestle with rules like "don't fall in love" — and what it actually takes for any partnership to hold up under real honesty, real communication, and real emotional elasticity.

If you've ever felt guilty for a thought you didn't even choose — you're not alone.

Listen, send this to the friend who will actually talk about it with you, and leave us a review. Then tell us: what's your gut reaction to open marriage or polyamory, and where do you think it comes from?

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Getting Used To It!
If you enjoyed today’s conversation, please consider subscribing, rating, and leaving us a review—it helps others discover the show! We’d also love to hear your thoughts, so drop us a comment or connect with us on Bluesky @gettingusedtoit.bksy.social.

Stay connected, stay curious, and we’ll see you next time!

Transcript

Cold Open And The Article

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Oh, are you excited about what we're ch are you? Um, so did you read that article about oop, are we here?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

We're yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Okay. Is it time to start the podcast?

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Well, yeah, so yeah. And I and I did read that article. I read read an article about this woman who wrote about her open marriage and then why she loves it, why it worked, the whole thing. And I finished it, and my first thought wasn't, I think you might be surprised, it wasn't good for her, or that's wrong. I'm not sure that I'd go there, but or I wonder about my own marriage. Well, what was your first thought then after you read her piece? I was thinking not fair. I want that too.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Now, was that what you were thinking? Not fair, I want that.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I was like, how many women our age are sitting with like maybe a version of that question for themselves right now? And they don't have anyone to talk to about it because it feels so taboo to even think about it. Um, because yeah, it's taboo and feels like the moment you even bring it up, you're already like, mm-hmm, bad guy.

Not Fair And The Taboo Thought

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Right, right, absolutely. Um is that what we're talking about today?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

This is 100% what we're talking about today. Okay. The article that I'm talking about was written by Molly Roden Winter, and she wrote a whole memoir about it and was called More, a memoir about an open marriage. Am I right about that name? That's it. Yeah. I like how you say she wrote a whole freaking memoir. I mean, like, what? What? I'm like, wow, like a whole one, not just a half one. And the and the thing about it is that she didn't, she wasn't blowing up her marriage, she wasn't leaving her husband. It wasn't like, oh no, a cautionary tale. She's married, she has kids, she has, I'm air quoting, her regular life, but she made a conscious choice about her, about what her marriage was gonna look like. And then she wrote about it a whole memoir. But I kept just thinking, like I was saying earlier, she got to choose. She stopped, asked herself the question, and then answered it, and then did the thing. And that's what stayed with me. Not the open marriage part, just the choosing part. Because I really don't think that most women our age are really none of us were handed that question, right? Not from our moms, from our friends, not any TV shows or movies we were watching, right? Monogamy was the choice. There was no buffet, there was not even a second choice. It was just the one and only thing. And even more than that, if your eyes wandered, thought wandered, anything wandered or wondered, it was different. So you were not allowed to do that. And if you did do that, oh my gosh, you would be shamed for that. So at some point, we all probably just stopped wondering. Not because we found any kind of answers, but because we learned that asking the question, thinking the question was wrong, wrong, wrong. You're the problem. I'm wondering, Beth, did you ever feel that? That even wondering itself was already wrong.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I mean, I don't think I ever thought about it any differently than how it was prescribed for us, you know. Um, until, you know, I discovered the term polyamory, say in the last 10 years. I think then it's not that I thought about my own life differently. I thought, oh wow, people are out there doing that. Um, and then I think I probably had some sort of got in line with all the judgers, as society has taught us that that is not uh civilized, let's just say. So I probably just thought, like, that's weird, that's not for me. You, right? Right. And for Molly Rodin Winter, I mean, carving a new path. I mean, that's like a brave lane to um open, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be fraught with uh commentary by other people, you know. Uh so I think when I know I never wondered in the past, but um when I heard I heard a podcast with her um as we were getting ready to talk about this, and I thought, um, wow, that's interesting. Like, is that possible? Um, can you do that and not hurt the people you're in a primary relationship with? It was I I had all these questions.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

A hundred questions. I have so many questions about it. Absolutely do it.

Mononormativity And Cultural Gravity

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Absolutely, yeah. Um, how do you do it? Right. So just to give you a little research, not on the how you do it, because that's really going to be up to the individual couple and communication. And I that is I'm sure there's so many different ways. But what we grew to know as the norm um has a term, it's called mononormativity. And I get to say it because Susie's struggling with it. Um, and it's the idea that monogamy just is so deeply embedded in Western culture, which it is, right? That it doesn't function like a choice, you know, to be monogamous. It functions like a gravitational pull, right? Like I described to Susie. It's like we're salmon in a stream, right? Um, and we're just on that, you know, stream forward, right? Um, and any alternatives, there was no like you said earlier, like it's not a buffet. It was like there was one item on the menu. Any alternatives weren't even on the menu. I mean, they were like under cloak and dagger. They were shh, you know, like, oh, your uncle that had, you know, six wives, or your, you know, um aunt that never got married, or your, you know what I mean? Like, or oh, those two are they would have parties and they were swingers, you know. Yeah. I mean, right? It was also it, it wasn't like let's talk, right? It wasn't like that, right? It wasn't like that at all. No. Um, yeah. So it wasn't like we even had a choice of anything else, right? We were just did what we did what we were taught, right? But the science, do you want to talk about the science? I know you love science, so you talk about I do love the science.

What Research Says About Satisfaction

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah. I thought this was we thought this was super interesting. 35 studies with nearly 25,000 people, you guys. And in that study, they found no significant difference in relationship satisfaction or even sexual satisfaction between people in monogamous and non-monogamous relationships. Weird. So I'm like, I'm like, really? What that wasn't supposed to be the answer. So, yeah, what was it then? Like, or what is it? And or what does? So we found out that it's actually the whatever structure you you're in needs to match your actual values, and I mean that makes sense, right? That makes sense.

Values Match And Jealousy Fears

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So let me ask you a question. That does make sense, but I have a question now. So does that mean like, you know, we're saying you and I are in a relationship, right? And then one day I think, hmm, you know, I love Susie, and I am also very interested in, you know, Sasha. Everyone has an S name here. Um, do I what if I what'll what happens if I don't know whether Susie's gonna be cool with it? I mean, Susie.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

You know, I feel like there's so many emotions that can go on here. Like, I I almost feel jealous, hurt, yeah. Also, maybe I am kind of open to like what? You've been thinking that too. And I kind of have a crush on so and so. Like, how I feel like there can be so many ways this can we haven't allowed ourselves to even think outside this tent. No, exactly. And I'm also thinking, like, I'm wondering, but then is there maybe are we having issues? And that's why you're thinking of wanting to be with someone else, Beth. Why are you wanting to be with someone else? What about you? I love Susie. I love my Susie. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

So Right. Yeah, exactly. But then but here comes that like question Am I not enough?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. Yep, yep. So I think there's like a like what you were saying earlier, there's just so many ways and variables here that and and within all that, I bet you have we had would have to answer all those questions and get it all straightened out, is what I'm yeah thinking. And everyone's gotta be honest in order to make this work, right? Because that's what I'm thinking really has a relationship. Survive sounds like uh such an enormous word for it, but that's I think the word to have a relationship survive, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Right. I mean, I think maybe maybe it's helpful here to just mention that one of I mean some of what we read about Molly Roden Winter's situation is that um for her it was like identity related. Do you remember that part? Right, it was really didn't have anything to do with from what she says with her partner in any way, but it had to do with her identity as wife, mother, you know, those kind of roles and wanting to explore her identity outside of those things, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, um yeah, I think that's interesting. I would have never thought about well, because she was she felt she was she wanted to get outside of the mom wife role. And when she was with her husband, that was just that role that she was in in her home, that was the role that she was in, and it wasn't because she didn't love her husband or love being a mom or anything like that, she just wanted to explore other roles.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Um I mean, I guess if you think about how we're different with the pe with different people we're with, so then sure, right? Our friends could see Yeah, exactly. So you could see that you're maybe not a change in your identity, but like an exploration of of self.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah. I still have so many questions. It's like, yes, I can see all that, but I've got lots of questions. Because I even remember she said something about they had a rule to not fall in love, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah. Tell us what happened, Beth, because well, I think what she said was she she couldn't keep that or stick to that because she felt like she loved all the people she was with, and that that was part of being with other people. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Um would have been hard for me, like, oh no, I thought we made a rule.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you can see that the even delving into this stream, um, you know, takes take something. It it it it it takes a lot of conversation, cooperation, honesty, and um and I'm gonna say elasticity, right? Because you're gonna have to like um widen out from the prescribed roles that many of us are in.

Rules Love And Relationship Elasticity

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah. And I also wanted to add, too, that there was a large nationally uh representative study that did find people in open relationships were slightly less satisfied with their primary partners. So it's not really a clean win for either side, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah, despite the fact that the other studies say something different.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

I mean, the truly the what we're individual, it's it's gonna be individual, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

And then now it is slowly becoming not slow, it's always been a choice. We just didn't know it was a choice, and you're gonna have to make your choice, yeah, yeah.

Midlife Curiosity And Listener Reactions

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Um, you know, people might think, oh, like this is for young people. All the young people are polyamorous or in open relationships, or you know, that's you know, they're they're allowed to get to do this, yeah, they get to explore that. But the data shows that it's midlife um humans, you know, people our age in their 50s and 60s who are actively asking these questions of themselves and with of their partners, um, maybe quietly. Um, because in our experience, mine and Susie's, we we haven't really heard a lot. We're not really clued into anyone who's that we know personally firsthand that's you know living an open relationship life, yeah, or who have told us exactly. Um yeah. So I'd be curious if our listeners, I'm I'm sure it's a much wider net than just our two friends and family pools, but yeah, I'd be curious if our listeners have had any um experience, definitely let us know.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, and I'm also curious if you've heard about someone our age who's made a different choice, relationship choice. What was your gut reaction? And where do you think that reaction actually comes from? Is it conditioning?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Do you think our moms wanted the structure the structures that they were in?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Or were they just I mean, if you think about it, I mean now we're just really we're really elasticizing the conversation. I mean some of them really just wanted to be able to go to work and be treated equally. So I don't know, maybe I'm sure they were thinking about different structures in different ways, not just romantically.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Right. Right now, and it's funny, it's in not funny, but interesting because my um I'm I think my generation of kids uh for my family, I think we were the we stopped doing arranged marriages. My line, I still have a lot of cousins who still had arranged marriages as well. So, you know, that are not that much general than I am, exactly. Exactly. So even that is like another choice of relationship, right? So isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

That's super interesting, and you know, not as Western as what we're talking about. And I'm curious, how did those relationships end up?

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Not great.

unknown 15:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Moving on from cousins, move moving on from arranged marriages.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Although it did work out for your parents, they're happy. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

But it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

There are they happy because they chose it, or you know, exactly because they had no other choices. I mean, really, that's what it comes down to.

Long Marriage Values Revisited

SPEAKER_00 15:58

It really is. And then and then your values, right? Like, is it lining up with your values? And that's another question I have too is if you've been married for a long time, like Molly was, like Beth and I, for 20 some odd years, and then now you're discovering this about yourself. That you really have to now go back and have that values conversation. And wow, are our values even lining up as partners? And wow, we've been living this long with different values. Is that is that a question that comes up? I'm just super interested about this topic and what happens in the four walls of the conversation. I wish that could be a fly on the wall when this conversation does happen and when people do set up all the rules and systems to make this work. And do they tell their kids?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Um, I suppose that would depend on how old your children are.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

There's that too.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And yeah, and how do you not make it, you know, how do you how do you get out from underneath the shame of what we've, you know, piece of it, which is I mean, yes, it's more widely acceptable, but is it I mean, more widely acceptable, not widely acceptable? Yeah, you know, yeah, people in more straightforward monogamous structures.

You Are Not Wrong For Wondering

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, totally. My feel not yeah, is that cool? Not cool. You should see our faces. Our faces would we're finishing our sentences, but you can't see her. Like, how do we get that out? It's an interesting topic, though. I totally think so. And I want to say something to whoever's listening to like to this, and you recognize yourself and somewhere in this conversation. Not maybe someone who wants to blow up their marriage, right? I'm not talking to that person, or maybe we are. I'm not sure. But to the people who read this article possibly, or heard about someone's open relationship, or had a thought that now you're feeling guilty for having. Well, number one, I just want to say you're not, there's nothing wrong with you. Clearly, this is a movement. People are starting to think about this and do this and see if it's a great fit for them, right? But I just want y'all to feel and for us to know, like we never got asked that question, right? So it's totally cool to think about it. And now we're in our 50s and it could still be sitting there for us. So just go answer the question for yourself. I don't know, you might still feel like it's a little taboo to go there, but taboo. Yeah, but it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. We're here for you. Absolutely. Because we grew up being told that wanting outside the lines, even in your head, made you a certain kind of person. And most of us stopped looking outside the line lines, and now we're here in midlife wondering not whether we made the wrong choice, but just whether we ever actually got to make one.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

We don't know and we're getting used to not knowing.