Getting Used To IT: Growing Up Korean American And Learning What Love Looked Like

Suzee didn't know what Beth was going to ask her. That's what made it real. In this episode, Beth turns the mic on Suzee and goes deep — on what it actually felt like to grow up Korean American, caught between a traditional immigrant household and an American world that didn't quite fit either. The exhaustion of straddling two cultures, the love that looked like pressure, and what you can only see clearly from the other side of 51.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Hot Seat

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hi, and welcome to Getting Used to It. We're Susie and Beth, two life coaches in the thick of midlife ourselves, where everything's a little weird, occasionally hilarious, and a lot unexpected.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

If you're wondering whether you're the only one Googling hobbies for adults, wrankling, emptiness, and dealing with shifting hormones, you are not alone. We're here to navigate this wild chapter of life with you. So let's go. And suddenly the thread running through all of it becomes visible. That's where Susie is right now. And today she's taking us there with her. Susie. Yeah. You're in the hot seat, honey, today.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

I am. I really have no idea what Beth is going to ask me today. So I'm slightly nervous, but excited too.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Okay. I know you, but our listeners are about to know you in a

Two Worlds Under One Roof

SPEAKER_01 1:10

whole new way. So let's journey back. What did your house feel like growing up? Not the facts of it, the feelings of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

So growing up, it felt like I had well, the inside of the house was definitely Korean. So it felt very um traditional. But when I say traditional, I guess like up, like I keep thinking of the word like uptight, conservative, right? Like very there were a lot of rules. So some stepping on eggshells, feeling um, and then when the parents were home. And when the parents weren't home, it was just me and then my younger brother. So then that felt a little more freeing, and um, and it was the two of us like a little team, although we fought a lot, but even though we knew that it was really the two of us kind of against our parents, and having to try to figure out having Korean parents in a space in a town that we were, there weren't a lot of Korean people. There were, but just not right where we were. So we maybe only knew a couple of other Korean families. Well, um, we went to Korean church and um knew them, but that was not we just didn't know anybody that well. So yeah, that was the feeling inside the house.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

So the feeling inside the house was you aren't eggshells at times. Yes, a little and and that you were straddling both worlds, yes, right? Inside Korean, outside a little bit freer. A little bit f freer.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

You know what? It's more on that. Yeah, it was it was more that we could see that other people lived differently than us. Right, okay, right? So and we knew aware was an awareness, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

So you so that gap, right, where that awareness steps in, where you see, oh, we're living this way here, and then other people are listening, or lip, sorry, not listening, living differently outside the house. Like did it hit, was there a moment when it hit you, or did that just sort of grow as you grew?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Like it was always time that you actually yeah, camping point uh time, but many times it was mostly when the the big aha's were always when we got in trouble. Because then we'd go to our friends or I'd go to my friends and I'd say, Oh my gosh, I got in trouble for blah blah blah. And they'd say, What? Okay, well, now you're making one example. Yeah, an example would be I've did not turn my library book in on time. They're huge, got into lots of trouble. Not only were the police gonna come, did my parents say, but it was like an all-out panic being hit, and you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I know at this point, like when I say that, it it was very traditional at the time. Korean parenting is very different now, but at the time, this was I'm 5 uh one now, right? So it was different, much more traditional, and that happened, right? So yeah, so something as small as a library book being overdue was pretty big.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Right. I mean, that kind of speaks to maybe some fear in in your folks' approach to parenting when I hear about the cops coming because your library book was overdue. Um this is a perfect segue because I wanted to ask you a little bit more about uh how you were parented. Uh how whoops don't hit the mic. Let's start with love, because that's just like first and foremost. How did that show up in your house? Not what was said, but like what did it actually look like on a Tuesday, for example?

SPEAKER_02 5:32

When I was younger, I would have said it is not here. Okay, right. But now looking back, I really do see that it was in the because the cops were coming, they were worried for us, right? And making sure that we were taking care of ourselves. Um they was shown in how they cared for you. Yes. Well, yeah, yeah, exactly. And definitely through food, definitely through

Rules Fear And Love Through Pushing

SPEAKER_02 6:10

my violin lessons, you know, again, I'm at that generation where most people in my generation played an instrument because that was kind of the thing they thought this is what would make you successful, because a lot of there were a lot of successful classical musicians, Asian classical musicians at the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

So the so sort of like the investment. And the investment, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So yes, we love you, so we're going to invest you and make sure you do this well because for your future, right? Right. But then very hardcore about it, right? So that tiger mom sort of situation. Um, but that was how they showed love um by pushing. Right. So again, at the time, I would have said there's no love here. Looking back, I get their fear of us not being successful in this country, and they're trying to make us help us be successful.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Right. At the time when when they were pushing you, I mean, and I'm sure your consciousness grew, obviously, like when you're young, like you know, seven, eight, nine, you may not have the same reaction to it as you might have like at 18. Yeah, you know, or 20, right? Um and uh did you were you able to see at those younger places, like while my parents are really pushing me in a way of like my friend across the street is not being put my white friend across the street is not being pushed. Yeah. So you were seeing it like kind of all the time.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

All the time. And then we also as I got older and like I said, with the Korean friends that I did have, we also knew we just didn't share some of the stories with our white friends, the more American friends, because it did seem dramatic. It didn't seem like um it was landing the same way as when we told each other, right? So we understood, oh yeah, you better be, you know, we understood why you would get in trouble. So yeah, and then our white or more American friends would be like, Well, why no, you don't have to go home for that, or why just push back? Or we're like, No, no, you don't do that. Um, so that was that was how I could really tell. We're we're definitely different.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, wow, interesting. And so um, did your parents I I mean, I know I feel like I know the answer as soon as I'm about to ask this question, but like what like were emotions something that ever got talked about, or were they more something you were just supposed to quietly manage on your own? Like if you were angry with them, or if there was sadness, or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

I mean, is your guess that it's a no, no, no emotions? Yeah, yes, that was my guess, and I know you, yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, I don't we did it's funny because my husband always says, you you do angry and happy, but I don't know about sad, you know, right? Right um, and then not super happy, right? So it's like yes, that's true. I think I was conditioned to do that, to be that. Um, and then you know, sometimes I wonder if birth order does matter too, and I think it does because I was the oldest, and then my younger brother's about five years younger than I am, too. So then I kind of had to manage the house and help him because my parents weren't home that often. Um, so I kind of had to hold it together and my emotions together is how I felt for him. Right. So everything just felt like it needed to be buttoned up all the time. And when I was angry or cried, um, gosh, anger just felt like uh it was a rebellious emotion. Right. And maybe a lot of people felt that way with their parents crying up. Right um crying felt like a weak emotion. Um and I think we may have talked about this in another episode where we did. Yeah, where basically my dad said, Why are you crying? Yeah, we did talk about that, and it was an anger like, don't ever do that. So oof, pulled that back. Right. Um yeah, and it it was just more about being even keeled, right? Well, yeah, tell me they told it, they told me I was a good girl because I was so even keeled.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So that then that was that reinforced that for you, like, oh, keep doing what you're doing, you're on the right track. Yeah, exactly. Well, that kind of um feeds, you know, right into sort of the unspoken rules, which I mean, and and were they even unspoken, they're you know, they were kind of out loud also. Your dad was like crying weakness, you know, don't do that. What are you doing that for, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Um, and there's a little bit of reading between the lines that you that you had to do. Um, and you you you spoke of when we were talking a couple of minutes ago about your the investment your parents made in your violin lessons. I mean, the achievement pressure in a lot of Korean households is real, right? What was your experience?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah, it was really about you gotta you gotta get all those A's, the Asian F thing, you know how they've made fun of that. It's very true. Um, and just have to

Quiet Emotions And Achievement Pressure

SPEAKER_02 11:40

be being on top of everything, right? So that was of course very important. Again, when I look back, I see why. At the time, it just felt so heavy and so much because having to get good grades and then having to practice the violin all the time, and then and then having to take care of my brother, and then you know, things it just felt like a lot. Um since then, I have had conversations with my parents about it, but so I understand more of it, but at that time it was very, it's not fair, and then why do my friends and why can't I? Right? So that's a I did a lot of comparing.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So now my mom and I fought a lot about so you so that's really interesting because you know, while there were unspoken rules and your emotions were meant to be swallowed down, I do hear you had a peer you had a period however long where you fought where you push back.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

I did not with my dad, I see right. So maybe dad heard about that on the side, but with my mom, I did, yeah, and you know was she the softer one? Is that why? I think honestly, no, she was just so my dad had a big bark, right? Like he seemed scary. Um but my dad too, yeah, and I think maybe that just goes to a lot of dads, maybe I don't know, but and maybe at that period of time, but because they weren't there so much, so when they did show up, it seemed bigger, yeah. Um, but my mom and I bickered all of the time, so she and I would have more of those fights, and I would just stand up more to her because I think I was just used to fighting with her. Also, I don't know if this was this way in anybody else's like uh the immigrant in Korean households, but my mom also fought a lot with my dad, and I watched it. She wasn't a quiet, subservient woman at home and um she would push back, she would say no. She if she said no, she's not gonna do it. You couldn't really push her to do it. Um and she she was the breadwinner, so it was I I think a lot of my pushback was felt okay to me because I watched her do it too. Yeah. I'm like, well, you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Right. So right, good role model. Yeah. You know, we talked a minute ago about like their fear, their wanting you guys to do well, etc. And that was part of their pushing and and um their investing and the achievement pressure, etc. But like underneath all of it, what were they trying to protect you from? Do you have any sense?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I think when we when they first moved to the states, when they they told me that when they watched all the movies in Korea that the movies showed parties all the time and success. So when they got here, they it was a different story. They're like, oh, the you have to work so hard. Where are the parties? Number one. Where are the parties? Where are the party? I'm ready for the party, right? Um, and that's that's funny. It was gonna be that like it was gonna be so hard, right? Um, no one prepared them for that. And I I think I hear that a lot from immigrants from that time. Like the streets were paved in gold, life was easy in America. You make a ton of money, right? And then they get here and they're like, what just happened?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I maybe feel the people today that are immigrating here maybe have that same feeling. We have the same feeling.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Exactly. It's very true. So when that didn't happen, they saw how hard it was, they were afraid that it would be that way for us. They were afraid that people would judge us as Korean and not white, so then we would have a harder time. There were a lot of Korean people also changing their last names to like Smith, yeah Johnson and stuff, just to get a leg up. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, they did that. I mean, my my grandmother, I think there was a lot of that going on too. And my grandparents who came from Eastern Europe. Yeah. So I think they were just afraid. So they pushed. They thought this, they thought this would make your life better. Yes. And it wasn't just them, it seems like there are a whole host of Korean

Immigrant Fear And Burning The Blueprint

SPEAKER_01 16:35

um immigrant families that came that you know use the same sort of meth methodology on their children, and they still do.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Korea is probably like the highest suicide rate because of the push that they do. And um, it's still pretty intense, but the parenting isn't quite as intense as what I hear. But a lot of investment, lots of money goes into basically education because of it. Yeah, I mean, they've done a great job. It's just the push is it's a little much. It's it's a lot the push is is a lot for all all of our kids.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

The push is a lot for all of our kids, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that brings me to your children. And when you found out when that you were gonna be a parent, what was your gut instinct? Follow the blueprint of your folks or burn it. Well, burn it. Same for me, by the way. Same for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, well, here's the thing, too, is so when as I was growing up, I told my parents, I said, I'm not marrying a Korean person. I said, if it's like this, hell no, fuck no, right? And that was another huge fight with my mom. Then she would say, Well, this Asian, what about this Asian country? What about this Asian person? I'm like, right, right. So, and I lit then later found out it was more because then they would feel comfortable, right? Because whichever Asian it was, it we still have some common ground in how we do our traditions. Um, I said no. And so my earning age. Exactly. And starting from when I was very, very young, and I think maybe because my brother was so much younger and I had to parent him so much, my mom did say much later on, she said, I could have never raised your brother without you. No, she said, You did most of that parenting, and she said, I I did not give you a lot of attention, I had to work. Only Sundays did they ever get off, and they were gone at 7 a.m. and they came back home at 7 p.m. And she said, We we really actually argued so much because I was so tired. Oh, and I was like, Oh, I know it's so lovely that your mom was is able to open up with you. I know, yeah. She said that does a lot for your healing, really does. But again, so because I felt that kind of parenting, we felt so heavy when I was younger, and then I am sitting here with my brother who's five years younger than me, I vowed that I would not um parent, yeah, do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

So um, my brother and I, I even made us promise each other that we will apologize to each other whenever we're wrong. Like we I made up all kinds of rules because of the parenting. So I kind of knew from when I was younger how I I started designing how I'd be as a parent, and it was so important to me. The first thing I told my husband, not that this makes a better parent or not, but I told him I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom and my kids will be uh have my focus. Like I'm gonna make sure. Yeah, and um, that was like my number one thing. Yeah, you know, it's interesting stage two, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Okay, get ready. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. Um, yeah, I uh over the raising of your children and the parenting of them, uh, and I'm you know, amazing that you could burn that that blueprint and focus on them. Um has your has one of your parents ever come out of your mouth and parenting them?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Oh yeah, yeah, and what was that like? What happened? How did it feel? Gosh, you know what? Honestly, so before when they were younger, I found myself yelling. I didn't hit like them because I said it would never hit, but I was doing the yelling like them and being super scary. So my son, when I asked him not too long ago, I said, uh, we were talking about something. I said, Well, what was your memory of me? And he said, Ah, I'm like, oh my God. I think I need to apologize. So I okay, got it, got it, got it. And but I remember at some point I had to stop that because I I was looking at myself like, who is this? That is not any better because I'm sick of it.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Not that you want shit out of my channel. Look at their eyes.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

I've just not laid a hand on them.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah, yeah. Slightly different. Um, okay, so I love I I mean, thank you for your honesty there. And so great that you know, your it sounds like it was your son was able to be honest with you. So obviously doing parenting differently. Yes. He was able to have that conversation with you, you know, honestly, and you were able to hear his feedback. So that's you know ding ding ding for Susie. Um, and and you had and it sounds like you you did have a blueprint that you that you designed with your brother that you brought into your own life with your children, and then there was a moment when something else had to change. And when you had to st when you had to stop being angry when you yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

I know. Yeah. Yeah, it would seem like it was working, but not really.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Consciously grieve, letting go of from how you were raised, even the things that were hard,

When Your Parents Come Out

SPEAKER_01 22:05

but also shaped you. Was there anything there?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

You know, sometimes I think it is that I didn't push harder. You know, I just I hate to say that, but yeah, I wonder, right? But you know, when I talk to my kids about it, because I'm very open about that stuff with them, um I mean they're they're like, no, right. So they do feel like I was the I was the pushier one.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Um the pushier parent or the pushier family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Uh so you know, I I don't know, but the truth is, you know, as our parents did the best they could do with their information, I did the best with my information. Then then I'm open to learning and hearing what they need now as well. And you know, yeah, um, I feel like as long as I'm open to it.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Let me ask you about that openness. I just back to how you were how you parented the kids. You know, did you feel like you were emotionally open? Did that come naturally to you? Or did you have to practice at that?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

I'm still practicing. So um, like I said, yeah, my husband says I do happy and angry. We all know that Susie needs to watch a sad commercial or a sad movie to cry periodically. I will cry. How about sad music? It has to be really sad. I gotta be really in a place like maybe in high school I did that because of hormones. But but not really today. I mean, I will definitely cry if someone passes that's close to me, right? Like for sure. Um, but I don't, I I still don't love the feeling of crying. It doesn't feel like a release to me. It feels like I really still need to try to hold that back. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

I'd rather so when it's you still feel some shame around it.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Uh yeah. I don't know if it's shame, but it maybe, right? Because I just feel like I need to, or it's that physical habit of holding it down. Yeah, shut it down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Well, I mean super excitement too, by the way. I don't like super excitement. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah. So I mean when you when you got did you ever get to a place in the parenting, and maybe it's currently, yes, you have adult children, but obviously we know we're still parenting them on some level, just the dynamic changes slightly. Um, did you ever, you know, were you able to just be while giving while pushing them, or was it more of a binary? Can you ask that again? So did that. I don't know if I can. I don't know if you're like ultra shoot. Oh god. Um you know, how did you were you ever were you able to balance um letting them be with the kind of push that you and that work ethic that was instilled in you? Were you able ever able to balance that in your parenting of your kids, or was it a binary one or the other?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

No, I feel like I did a pretty good job of that. Okay, you know, this is one area of my life that I we're gonna take your word for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did amazing, guys. This is one area of my life I do feel proud of and confident about. Great. I'm not saying that I I was perfect or anything, yeah. But that that for me, I really feel like I had yes, I did yell a lot when they were younger, learned not to do that, but it but I really did the push with conversation, right? Like so they knew why I was pushing, and that was the thing for me growing up was that I never got the explanation. I was never told why, right? So I vowed that I would say why and then have the conversation, negotiate and see, right? So that full that full conversation never happened, it was just you do. So that's that was one of the reasons why I was I I even though I pushed, they knew why I was pushing.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Right. Do you think it would have made a difference in your family of origin if

Seeing Your Kids As Themselves

SPEAKER_01 26:50

you understood?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

No, yeah, I don't know. I wondered about that. Yeah, because I I feel like I wouldn't have agreed with them. Yeah. Because I wanted what I wanted, and that was that has nothing maybe to do with being an immigrant, just it was a kid.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, now let's bring you into current day. You're almost 52. Your kids are grown for the most part. Um, you're not in the daily trenches, at least, of either being parented or parenting anymore. What does that distance let you see visually that you couldn't see before?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

It that distance that oh gosh, I feel like there's so many things, um, but also none of them seem very like it feels a little cloudy still, but the kids are they've been the same since actually day one, right? Like they kind of they showed us who who they were a long time ago. Um, their personalities, and I don't know if it's this is true for everybody, but this is my kids. And in and when I tried it tried to mold them into something else, I was like, duh, looking back, why'd I do that? Like what was that my fear? Because she's always been this way, right? Like a little quiet, a little bit more standoffish. So why would I push her to try to be more happy? You know, like why would I do that? That's not her. She needs her process.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

So I hear that the distance allowed you to see that your kids are your kids. I think you said that, but like they're individuals. I didn't understand that you that's what you meant. Yes, right. Like, and that you parented them as the individuals they are, not like just kids. Right, exactly. And we do it this one way, right? Okay, yeah. That's great. Yeah, that seems like a huge evolution from how you were parented.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah, you know, I I'm gonna give my dad a little pat on the back too, which is um again, when you're younger, you just think dad, asshole. And then you pull back and then you remember the stories. And I was coached on all of this too. And um we I I remember a story where my dad had asked us if we if we could do family time.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Like, what? Family time, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah, I feel like that's something I raised in my family here, and they were like, What is that?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

We are together, yeah, we're together, whatever. But so we got together, and then he asked us, um, what is something I can do to make our relationship better?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Something along that line. I love your parents.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

I know.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

I did a lot of things. So amazing.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

And he and then my I think my brother or I asked him not to stop hitting us. Wow. And then he did. And then he did. So the fact that he asked about family time and getting together and then asked that question

Softening Toward The Past

SPEAKER_02 30:05

and then not do the thing after we asked. I forgot about that, right? So until later, and that really did shake me, and like okay, wow. So they really did want to, they did love us, they were trying, they just didn't know how in Americanized way, and I can only see the American versions on TV. I mean, I was trying hard for Leave It to Beaver or the Cosby's, but it wasn't happening. Maybe not the Cosby's anymore. Exactly. Not anymore. Yeah, but you know, it it when I remembered that, it made me realize like I really definitely softened and realized, and also gave myself a little break too. Like it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm I'm trying as well, and right, etc.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Right. Is there anything still uh you know knocking around that you haven't made peace with within yourself about how you were parented?

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Uh it's a really good question. I I don't think so. I now I see them so differently, right? Like I I see them for their well, number one, having kids really does change. Sure. Like, whoa, I had no clue that this was gonna be this hard. Right. But also when I really I am writing a book about my parents and their experience of the Korean War. So layering that on top of it, I am surprised that we that my parents kept it together, right? You know, and that they how they raised us and everything like uh kudos to freaking them. And you know, my brother and I are decent people. So we're okay. No murderers there, no murderers. That's we know is there anything you've never asked them or I think um my cousin actually asked my parents when like this was like 2002, a while back, we're all together, and my cousins asked my mom, my my parents, why did you push her so hard to play the violin? And that was a question I thought I would never be able to really ask. And they said, and to answer your question from before, that's love. It's like, oh so that's what she considered love. Also, she told me she didn't think that I would um I asked them if they're proud of me. That was a tough one to ask. And they said yes, you know, I'm I'm just gonna pretend that that's telling the truth. And and but my mom said, because I then I asked about the violin too at that time, and she goes, I because I never became a professional. Um, I mean like a I was for a little bit, but then I was like, I'm done with this. Um, and I wondered if she was not happy that I did that. And she said, I didn't have you play the violin to make you a professional. I said, What? She said, it was so that you could find a man to marry that wasn't gonna be just about like looks,

The Unsaid Words And One Brave Talk

SPEAKER_02 33:25

like you had something else to talk about, you know, some depth rounded and some depth. Like, oh my gosh, I would have quit violin a long time before that, then if I knew that, but no, as far as questions go, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

I'd have to think more on that, but no, anything else you'd want them to know that you've never found the words for?

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Um, I think I don't say I love you really enough to them. And I feel like that's one of those vulnerable, sort of like it feels almost like the crying feeling hard to do with them. Yeah. Periodically, I'll drop one in, but it feels like I threw a grenade in and then I run away. So I would love to sit in that and stay and just say I love you and take a breath. Yeah. And sit with that. Yeah, that that would be the biggest one.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Thank you for speaking with us today, Susie. I think a lot of women listening to this are sitting with their own version of that unsaid thing. So here's what we want to leave you with. What's the conversation you've been putting off? Maybe this is the week for you to have it. Thanks for hanging out with us on Getting Used to It.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

If today made you laugh, think, or just feel a little less alone, then we've done our job. See you next time. Because if we're getting used to it, you can too.