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Cultureful
S1E4. Tonisha, Part 1: Black American - Serving in the U.S. Air Force
Keywords
identity, heritage, family stories, military aspirations, Black woman in the military, genealogy, cultural identity, personal history, military experiences, representation
Summary
Tonisha, 42, explores her identity as a Black American and the rich cultural heritage of her family. She recounts fascinating stories about her grandfather, who influenced her aspirations to join the military. Tonisha reflects on her early career choices, the challenges she faced as a Black woman in a male-dominated military environment, and the importance of representation in various fields. Through her experiences, she highlights the complexities of identity, family history, and the impact of personal narratives on career paths.
Check out Tonisha’s current work on plant care on Instagram @the.plantnanny and connect with her.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
03:13 Ethnic Identity, Family Stories, and Genealogy
05:26 Grandpa's Roots
09:34 Memories with Grandpa
12:29 Military Influence on Childhood
16:32 Impact of Kid-Friendly Military Stories
20:28 Talking About Military with Younger Generation
21:22 Community Respect for Grandpa
22:11 Influence of Stories on Mother and Her Encouragement to Enlist
24:30 Describing Grandpa
27:08 Childhood Dreams
28:25 Lack of Representation and Its Impact
30:48 High School, the ASVAP, and Military Enlistment
35:30 Becoming a Cop in the Air Force
37:26 Challenges of Being a Black Female Cop
39:47 Camaraderie and Dynamics in the Military
44:30 Branch Rivalries and Military Culture
47:16 Outro and Conclusion
Thanks so much for listening! Follow, review, and share to help us grow. @thecultureful on Instagram
AI Generated transcript may include errors
Jess (00:05)
You're listening to Cultureful. I'm your host, Jess Lin. I had an unexpected hiatus this year, and I'm very happy to be back. In 2025, I will be creating more content more regularly. Here is a head start on that for you to enjoy during the end of the year holidays. I interviewed Tonisha, a Black American woman veteran of the Air Force.
Our plan was to explore her service and how that led to her love of food and travel. Organically, we ended up following the flow of conversation to genealogy, family stories, her time in the Air Force, and much more. It was a rich, deep dive conversation. Here's the first of two parts. The second part will drop in a few days.
I hope you enjoy, and I'm wishing you and yours, happy holidays.
Jess (01:07)
hi, Tonisha. How are you today?
Tonisha (01:09)
Good, hello Jess. I'm Will, to say the least I guess. Nice to see you. I know, nice to see you too! I know, it's been, what, you guys left in August?
Jess (01:14)
Yeah, it's good to see you.
We moved, yeah, in August. And for the listener, my husband and I moved from Sacramento to Atlanta. So I am talking to Tonisha from Atlanta and you are in Sacramento, right?
Tonisha (01:39)
Yes, yes. I am in Sacramento.
Jess (01:42)
yeah, so I, I'm really excited to hear more about, your military experience and reflections today. And also, you know, how they kind of inform your relationship with food and travel. We kind of talked about a little bit. so I'm really grateful you're on today, to have this conversation and to share, you know, some of these thoughts and experiences.
But yeah, can you start by introducing your pronouns, your age, and your ethnic identity?
Tonisha (02:18)
Yes. She, her. 42 as of September, which is always bizarre. I don't feel like I've been around that long, but apparently I have. And then... thank you. Thank you. I know, I get that a lot. Like I've literally had someone made me show them my ID.
Jess (02:33)
And you definitely don't look 42, so.
Tonisha (02:44)
to prove that I was, this was like a couple years ago, I think I was like 38 and they're like, you're lying. I was like, why would I age myself? there's, it was, it was just weird. And they're like, I don't believe you. So was like, okay. And they're like, my God. And I'm like, you know, cause that's always like an interesting, conversation I guess with people. And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, good genes and water, I guess.
Jess (03:11)
huh.
Tonisha (03:12)
So
let's see, 42.
Jess (03:14)
and your ethnic and cultural identities.
Tonisha (03:17)
yes. So call myself a Black American. have my own particular like nuances with the term African American, which technically is incorrect for those of us who have been, like our families have been in this country for umpteen years, right? So...
Jess (03:38)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (03:39)
I consider myself a Black American.
My family is which is a mix of French and African.
And we have, recently found out we have Irish and Jewish, think on Jewish on my grandfather's side. So yeah, very interesting. His backstory is crazy also. think that's it. And the native, there's some native in there as well.
Jess (04:08)
Yes.
which parts did you just find out about?
Tonisha (04:13)
more of the Jewish and the Irish. so I've always grown up knowing that they're like, Creole and Native American. and so it's like, okay, cool. and which Creole is a mix of a few cultures. and then recently, with everyone doing their genealogy, I haven't done mine but I've had my aunt, my sister, different people did theirs.
So I this thing, this thing, and I'm like, and like this side of the family, and like, okay, cool. And then looking into the history of like the area of Louisiana and prior to the Louisiana Purchase with all that, what most people don't realize, I guess the word Creole originally meant just the free people of color. And in that area there was natives, French, Irish.
Jess (04:41)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (05:07)
which people don't speak about being there So once that came about, the Irishness, I was like, I guess that makes sense. having done research, we're knowing a little more of the back history of that area.
the Irish is from my mom's mom. and then the Jewish is from my mom's dad, so my grandfather.
Jess (05:27)
was it your maternal grandfather that had the very interesting story?
Tonisha (05:32)
yes. yes. so...
Jess (05:34)
So now I must know, like,
this is the most fascinating intro ever, but let's get sidetracked.
Tonisha (05:40)
Okay, okay, okay, let's do it. So I'll try to be the youngest of So he was the youngest of I think it's like six And something happened his mom ended up going into the hospital and to my understanding
Jess (05:43)
No, don't be brave, tell me the story.
Tonisha (06:01)
it was, she was put under like mental watch or whatever. and so his father to take the kids, you know, they were together but the father had to take charge of the kids and stuff. and my grandfather apparently was considered the black sheep of the family as far as like skin tone and things. and this is where you look back and where colorism has like affected people's lives in ways that people don't understand. so it's like...
but he was darker skin tone. Not that he was dark. He was darker than me, but he was just like a brown tone. don't know, just brown tone. But because he was darker than everyone else, his dad didn't want him. So his dad gave him up for adoption. by,
Jess (06:46)
my gosh.
Tonisha (06:47)
So his dad didn't own him, so he put him up for adoption. So he got adopted. And my whole life I grew up knowing that he was adopted by some white family is what he knew. So it's like a white family that adopted him and raised him and all this stuff. Come to find out fast forward to like current years, current times with genealogy and all the research and things.
So my understanding, the family that adopted him was his mom's actual aunt. So my grandfather's mom was half Jewish. And so the family that adopted him that he would just say like, this really nice white family adopted him turned out to be that it was his mom's aunt. So his whole life, he just thought it was some nice people that adopt him.
Jess (07:33)
Whoa.
Tonisha (07:36)
and he actually really was with family, but he never knew that. He passed away when I was in fourth grade, so that's not something he was privy to. it's crazy because you think about the time around when he was born, right? So this would have been like late 1920s, probably late 1920s. So let's say my grandma was born She's 91.
33 and my grandfather was a few years He's from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Jess (08:02)
Do know where this was?
Okay.
Tonisha (08:08)
Yeah, so it would have to late 20s in East Coast. And so I was like, it makes sense that they didn't tell him probably for safe reasons, you know, like a white couple adopting a little black kid. So it just probably looked like they were just more being very generous or whatever.
Jess (08:30)
So he was adopted by his Jewish great aunt and her husband. And they were white and he didn't know he was related to them and he didn't know he was.
Tonisha (08:38)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (08:48)
Mixed race.
Tonisha (08:50)
To my understanding, didn't know and yeah, his mom's aunt from the Jewish side and they were white adopted him. so his mom was half so he would have been a quarter. And to my understanding, I don't think he knew. He never spoke of it. And when I was younger, he was like, when I was like, he lived with me and my mom with us. Gosh.
think like third or fourth grade or so. And so he was like my best friend when I was little. Like my best friend when was my grandfather when was little. And so he would tell me stories and teach me stuff and different things like that. So never, I don't remember him mentioning it. Yeah.
Jess (09:33)
Okay.
Now I must know! What was he like? What are some of your favorite memories with him?
Tonisha (09:37)
Yeah
To be honest, the one thing I remember, he taught me how to cook... This is funny, but he taught me how to cook fancy top ramen as I would call it when I was little. Because when I was little, always loved cup of noodles and stuff like that. And so I would come home and remember the first time he was like, you can't eat it like that. And I was like, I'm like, what? And so he like whipped up, he boiled the egg and I think he shredded cabbage and...
He just, it was fancy, you know, for like a fourth grader, you're like, this is fancy, right? And so now fast forward, yeah, yeah, fast forward, be like, that's actually how you're supposed to eat ramen, right? So, well, when I was, you know, little, was like, mom, grandma taught me how cook fancy top ramen, you know, whatever. So that was like my first intro into like, I guess, real ramen, but not knowing it was like real ramen.
Jess (10:17)
Gourmet.
Tonisha (10:40)
And so a quick insert, because we're going talk about how I got into the military. My grandfather was actually former military, so he was retired military. And so that's what actually kind of encouraged me to go. So I think growing up having him as like my best friend for like, he lived with us for a year or so. And like I said, up, hearing all the stories he would tell me and different things.
Jess (10:47)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (11:07)
and then we would take him to the base. so, know, as a little kid, you're like, whoa, this is cool. You know, I was somewhat of a tomboy when I was younger, even was putting dresses and everything else. I still was a kid, like, I want cars. I'm like, you know, the boys had the cool toys in me. And so I still play Barbies and I like Barbies a lot, but I'm like.
Jess (11:31)
The boys did.
Tonisha (11:33)
They did, they had way cooler toys, so...
Jess (11:35)
Yeah,
they had the cool toys and they had the toys where you get to build stuff, you get to move stuff, you get to, I don't know, I still get bitter about like gendered toys. That's a whole separate conversation where, yeah, like why, what is this Barbie gonna, man, I used to get so annoyed when I got gifted Barbies as a kid and I just want to play with my brother's toys because they.
Tonisha (11:47)
Yeah. No, seriously.
Jess (12:00)
or more functional. But nothing as Barbies. But it was just like I was just an angry, I was an angry little feminist personally. Okay, so what did you call this grandpa?
Tonisha (12:03)
Yeah, no.
I just want a ripper.
No like fancy name.
Growing up, just had like my mom's dad.
Jess (12:24)
what was grandpa's job in the military and what were some of the stories you heard as a kid?
Tonisha (12:30)
So my grandfather, well he started out Army and then he retired Air Force. And that came about because, so Army, it was the Army Air Corps initially until I want to say, I shouldn't know this, because they like breed it into and base it in the Air Force at least. I want to say it was 1947 that they split. was a crew chief. So he...
helped work on the fighter jets and stuff like that. So when it split, of course he went with the planes because that was to his
So I would hear, he was in Korea, so I want to say the telling of Korea and war and then also Vietnam. So I would hear the stories of being over there. And obviously as a grown-up you're not telling the little kid the horror stories. You're telling them the friends you made or the walking around and cool things. I'm trying to...I don't remember anything...
specific at the moment. but always in awe.
Jess (13:38)
Do you remember?
was your feeling when you were hearing these stories?
Tonisha (13:42)
I was always in awe of his stories. I always, in my mind, I was like, whoa, what's this cool land you're talking about? know, like, because it's like somewhere so far away. And I think as a kid, especially someone who read books and stuff, you're like, it's a whole nother land. It's a cool world. And there's people that look different and they eat different food and wow, you know? So I think growing up with him.
Jess (14:10)
Yeah.
Tonisha (14:11)
Now I think about it, probably started a certain intrigue for certain stuff and hearing stories. and they're very like a little opposite of my mom's, because my mom as a kid, right, was a military kid. So she would talk about like moving all the time and like losing friends just hard to, you know, hard to like make friends. Cause you're like, I don't know what I'm leaving or stuff. So to hear the contrast of like
Jess (14:29)
Mmm.
Tonisha (14:37)
my grandfather having these like cool crazy like stories about like friends basically right. I think looking at the opposite side right there's always the the grass is greener so he on his side was like these things you make friends and food and things and my mom was more of like and it makes sense because as a child right you only see the world a certain way so for her it's like the losing of the friends.
but his stories, I just remember always being in awe and being like, that's so cool or you know.
Jess (15:11)
But it sounds really interesting that, was it that you were more in awe of where he got to go rather than his job? Because it sounds like a lot of it had to do with him being in these different countries rather than him his Air Force job.
Tonisha (15:25)
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what's funny? I would say you're correct. I do feel like I was in awe of the places he got to go. I think the experiences, right? The experiences that his job allowed him to have. So yeah, his job to me was cool too. You know, you're like, but by the time I also was around, he is already retired. So would go on base to take him to like...
the BX or the PX or like the shopping and stuff and we would you know maybe go by the flight line and he'd talk about the planes but I think if he was probably in during the time and I'd say I visited him at work and got to like go see the plane like touch the plane his job per se would have a bigger impact versus the stories yeah but the stories are always cool I just remember like nightly I feel like he would tell me something
Jess (16:15)
Mmm.
Tonisha (16:22)
you know, almost like bedtime story kind of sometimes. And sometimes it'd be like in the daytime when I came home from school, as we're, you know, eating or doing something. So.
Jess (16:24)
Wow.
This is so, okay. You know, I think your observation of maybe this was filtered through what he was comfortable to tell a child, right? That's a really interesting observation because maybe you had a rosy picture because he was living with you when you were this kid, right? You weren't like a teenager.
Tonisha (16:35)
Ha!
Yeah.
Jess (17:00)
in elementary school. So he had to dial his stories to something that was accessible to you appropriate for you. And so that's really interesting that then was like your first impressions about the military and what life could be like the military. and also it's interesting to me that he talked about it so often.
as someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with, didn't grow up around military stories, right? And I had some friends later join, like, you know, ROTC or like the reserves or, and then I met a friend later on who had been in the Marines, but every time it would be shocking to me.
because I realized that I just didn't grow up around that many military service folks. And so I would always be surprised that like someone else thought of this as an option to go and do because it just never was on my radar. and so my interaction with military stories like
It's so disproportionately movies and shows. And you just see the stuff about like veterans, if they've been somewhere at the time of some conflict, maybe they've seen, yeah, horror stories like you were saying that he didn't mention to you. And that sometimes people don't wanna talk about their service, but it's interesting that your grandpa was like, home and talking to you about all these
positive sides of his service, even though he was involved, at these different times. So that's like, it's a really...
This is really helpful to debunk some of these things holding in my head and there's no reason I should be holding those things in my head. So yeah, so thanks for sharing. I'm just imagining guys eating ramen and him telling you about some of his travels and times abroad. And it's just this very different picture from what I had in my mind, even though I shouldn't have had any picture in my
Tonisha (19:00)
Yeah
that's understandable. it makes sense though
Tonisha (19:16)
I think from my own experience now, having experienced certain things that I realized he went through, right? Because as a kid he's telling me like, I've been to this place and saw this or did this or... And even with the ramen it was career that he was like, I learned to do it there, here. And this is what we would do.
and as he's showing me. But then as you get older you realize there's certain things, of course, adults not going to tell you. And then myself having been to multiple times, I realized like, he's telling me the cool things, but of course you don't want to tell a kid the horrible things or the unfavorable experiences.
that you've had. It's funny because I oftentimes realize like, think if my grandfather would have been alive when I was older, because he passed away also while was in elementary think if he would have been alive when I was older and I told him I wanted to go to the Air Force, have a feeling he would have told me no. Just having...
Jess (20:18)
Mmm.
That gives me the chills.
Tonisha (20:29)
been through it and done certain things and now realizing the parts of the stories that were left out and the parts of certain experiences. have a feeling he would have told me not to do it. yeah. Which is crazy because I have a niece on my father's side, my sister on my dad's side. And she wanted to go my sister was like, she wants to talk to you. I was like, okay. And I was like, I'm just letting you know I'm gonna be honest with her because...
Jess (20:40)
Wow.
Tonisha (20:56)
there's things that we as adults like to sugarcoat, or you're like these things but I'm like she's in high school so she's old enough to understand certain stuff and to let her know so that way she can make an educated decision off what she's doing and not just like the glory of things, right? and I think for me to... having the stories and stuff from my grandfather but also seeing
Jess (21:01)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (21:24)
the respect I think that he had in the community when I was growing up. And so even though he was retired, he used to cut hair like he would barber. And so there's times we'd like go to the barber shop and different things or I'd go visit him and hang out and you you walk around like we'd walk to the store and things and just a lot of respect was shown for him. And so, you know, people, they would call him
Jess (21:30)
Hmm.
Tonisha (21:52)
everyone just knew and loved him. And I think as a child seeing that, kind of connected it to like, you know, I want to be respected or I want to have that kind of interaction with people. on top of the stories, I think it was a high influence of me going into the military. And so, and my mom for her, it was like, that's a good job. And also
You don't want to say favorites but people have a parent they kind of prefer, I'll say. And for her it was my grandfather. I think that also for her was like, yeah, know, something that mimicked the person that she admired, right? when I was like, I'm gonna go to military, she's like, yeah, you you should, yeah, you know. But also I don't think she was pre-be too certain.
Jess (22:39)
Bye!
Tonisha (22:40)
conversations and experiences also.
Jess (22:44)
Right, I saying
she probably got a lot of rated G stories too.
Tonisha (22:50)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. it's... Yeah.
Jess (22:53)
As his daughter, yeah.
Tonisha (22:56)
interesting.
Jess (22:56)
Now I'm thinking
of him in my mind as Grandpa Sarge.
Tonisha (23:00)
yeah, no that's fine. it's funny because once he passed away and stuff,
Tonisha (23:08)
because people call him Sarge, but my grandma and my uncle, I remember when they're going through paperwork and looking for some stuff or whatever.
half his paperwork said sergeant and half his paperwork said captain. and before I went in I was like, you know, whatever. because those are two different ranking structures. so one is enlisted and one is a commissioned officer. not sure if when the army-air corps split and when he went air force, if he switched...
Jess (23:32)
Right.
huh.
Tonisha (23:45)
went commissioned or even during his time in the war because there are instances where people will get like promoted because they something heroic and things like that. yeah,
but even in this day and age you have people that come in enlisted and then they'll go go to OTS, so it's officer training yeah, it's an and he was also a POW for a little bit. i don't know the full story or the length of time, i don't know if it was Korea or Vietnam. think
That might have been in Vietnam, but I'm not 100 % sure. So yeah.
Jess (24:21)
Wow, it sounds
like there was a lot that was edited out for the rated G versions of his What was he like? What was his personality like? What did he look like? Describe a little bit. Now I'm just curious what, know, Grandpa Spires was like.
Tonisha (24:29)
Very much so.
Yeah,
Yeah, to me he was cool. Like he was like the coolest person I probably knew really at the time. And with the goods there's some negative nuances too. as far as like temperament, he I don't know he was loving to me.
I always had a good time. I always enjoyed being around him. He, I wouldn't say, I don't know how tall he was. Maybe six feet just under, but I also was a kid. So it's like, know, as a kid you're like, yeah, everyone's tall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jess (25:15)
Everyone seemed tall, this is not accurate.
So,
don't know, was he kind of like a serious type? Was he kind of lighthearted?
Tonisha (25:25)
I feel like a combination of both. Because there was like, I think if you looked at him he probably looked serious, but he laughed a lot in as far as I remember. At least he laughed with me a lot and stuff. I think with the grandkids too there's all these like, there's the grandpa persona, right? Versus the probably dad or like friend persona. he had, his hair was like...
Jess (25:29)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
That's true. Yeah.
Tonisha (25:53)
salt and pepper it was like grayish black but then there was like salt and pepper and then like white in the front kind of. and he had all his hair. he didn't go bald. he had like a...
Jess (26:02)
huh.
Tonisha (26:08)
not a busker. so you know like tied on the sides and then a little on the top. he wore...now I think about it... yeah right? you have your hair together. about polo shirts. slacks or jeans type.
Jess (26:13)
Okay, style.
I mean, if he's gonna be a barber, he definitely need to like advertise his work.
thanks, yeah, uh-huh.
Okay.
All right. All right. I'm starting to come together. My, my, my mental sketch, grandpa Sarge that was a really fun, profile.
Tonisha (26:34)
you
Yeah.
Jess (26:43)
so thanks for introducing me to grandpa Sarge. Thank you. That was nice. That was sweet. so, okay. So of course.
Tonisha (26:46)
You're welcome. Thanks for listening.
Jess (26:52)
let's take a quick break and then we'll be back for be back for more.
so back to you, when did you start thinking about wanting to join yourself?
Tonisha (27:15)
honestly, feel like forever. I know I was little. I don't know if it was after he passed away. I feel like it might have been after he passed away. I know it was like elementary school, at least fifth, maybe sixth grade. it's weird because I had this like, I'm gonna grow up and be a famous saxophone player, but I'm also going to the those are like...
Jess (27:34)
Wow, that's young.
Tonisha (27:40)
The three things that I remember growing up saying I wanted to do. I was like, I'm gonna go into the military and then I wanted to be a famous saxophone player and then for some reason I wanted to be a judge. So it's like, in my mind I was gonna do all these things. See, very different, very different, very different. And I actually started playing saxophone in fifth grade for I think a year.
Jess (27:54)
All very different things.
Haha.
Nice.
Tonisha (28:09)
and then kind of fades yeah, no, I know, right? I mean kind of like... in the military kind of though. I... well, as I got older and probably when I hit high school and I actually was looking into it and I realized like, you have to be elected?
Jess (28:14)
You also became a judge for a year.
Tonisha (28:36)
and for some reason I was like, yeah, no. be honest, think... yeah, I was turned off. but the reason I was turned off is because I think it was the reality of the way of the world. where it's like, I don't look like at the time what you would say the conventional judge looks like, right? and I was like, yeah, how am I supposed to convince these people that don't look like me to vote for me to become judge, right? so it's like, do I want to spin?
Jess (28:40)
turned off.
Hmm.
Tonisha (29:03)
I'm ten years going through law school, going through this, you know because how long it takes. So I was like I can do all this stuff, but if I don't get elected I'm not able to do what I prep to do this for. So it was one of those where I just like okay, I scratched that. Which is, that's just fine, you know. it's also a sentiment of kind of like the environment around us, right?
Jess (29:17)
you
Right. And a reminder of like the importance of representation for for any age, but yeah, just like not, it is so, man, yeah. And that's part of why we're doing this podcast, right? That's part of my reasons to do this podcast is because we just, we need more representation for, you know, like.
Tonisha (29:34)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yes.
Everything.
Jess (29:55)
people from all different backgrounds doing everything, right? And so, yeah, I'm just thinking about little Tonisha getting discouraged about being elected to be a judge. And it's like, I don't think, yeah, we still have a lot further to go in representation. I think, at the same time, I think we've made some progress,
Now Justice Katanji Brown Jackson is on the Supreme Court and how amazing would it have been if you were in elementary school right now and to be able to see that in the highest court in the United States, But we didn't grow up in this, I mean, we were growing up in a different time.
Tonisha (30:19)
Yes.
It's.
What?
Jess (30:39)
So yeah. And then the military, that thing was always there.
Tonisha (30:41)
Yes.
very much.
Yes, it's interesting because I think in high school, having already had that kind of like a set a lot of, you see a kids kind of don't know what to do, I don't know what to do, you know? And there was a mad craze. And I was just like, I'm doing this and people were like,
Jess (31:00)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (31:06)
And they're like, you're really doing it. I'm like, yeah. Because I've been saying it for years. And so I even think some of the people I knew since junior high, it's like when we graduated, they were just like, okay. And then I left and they're like, you actually went and did it? I'm like, yeah. been saying I was doing just thought I was just talking. Yeah, it's been the plan for years. So it's like even during SAT time, I wasn't the frantic high schooler.
Jess (31:12)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (31:34)
about SATs because I was like, I have to take the ASVAB, right? Which is essentially kind of the same thing. It might be a little more in depth though too, because yeah. And so was like, I'm taking the ASVAB. I'm not taking SATs. And people are like, you're not taking SATs. And I'm like, no, that would be like double the work for no reason. Right? And so even like...
Jess (31:42)
for the military.
So
our international listeners, the SATs are some standardized tests that high school kids take to put on their application for college. And so you said it's called the
Tonisha (32:08)
as VAP. A-S-V-A-P? yeah. yeah.
Jess (32:10)
as VAP.
And the ASVAP
is for getting into the military. And so it tells, I don't know anything about the ASVAP.
Tonisha (32:17)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
so the reason
I say it might be a little more in-depth than the SATs, right? Because SATs is a lot of focus on like math, your reading comprehension. I think those are the main things. So the ASVAP, it tests you in all areas like, it kind of helps place you in your job as well.
Jess (32:34)
That's it.
Yeah.
Tonisha (32:44)
I mean, I had questions about mechanics stuff. You have the math portion, which is a chunk. You have language reading comprehension. have different portions that are asking you about that. Then you have science. have... All the subjects you would go over in school plus is basically what I would say. To see...
Jess (32:44)
Anyway...
Wow.
Tonisha (33:08)
where you excel in and where would be the best kind of place to place you according to like your scores on stuff.
Jess (33:15)
and do you apply for a specific branch of the military or you just take the ASVAP and they place you? Like, how does it work?
Tonisha (33:23)
idea which branch they want to go to, so they'll go talk to recruiter. then from there, the recruiter will get them set already knew I wanted to go to Air Force. I want to say senior contacted Air Force recruiter. so then my mom, we went down to her office and stuff. And I did the pre-ASA. They'll do a little quick light.
Jess (33:45)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (33:46)
maybe 25 questions. I think the whole as of is like it's a lot of questions. I don't even remember. I remember being like, my God, like when I actually got in there, I was like, my God, it's going to take But they do like a little maybe 20 or so questions and it might be 15, but to kind of get a gist of like how well you'll do. I think it was 25 and that
I just, I like 100 % scored. And so she was like, yeah, nice. If not, then they work on getting you like up to whatever standard. So they'll give you like books to study. So you'll go through like reading and studying and doing a bunch of like pre-tests and stuff to just make sure you pass it. Cause you also,
Jess (34:36)
Get to where you want
to go.
Tonisha (34:37)
Yeah,
well get to where you go, but you also can like not pass the ASVAP because some people think like, you know, like, no, you can also like fail. that's what mean. I don't remember how many questions, I know it's a lot of questions. Like you're in that test room for a while. main thing is like, make sure you pass it. Make sure you pass the ASVAP and then from there, O'Connor dictate.
Jess (34:47)
Wow.
Tonisha (34:59)
But it's funny because they have a joke about the army, no disrespect, but they'll say that they'll waiver anybody in. Because I guess there's been cases where people didn't pass the asset, but they just like them in.
Jess (35:15)
are still ways to get in if you don't pass.
Tonisha (35:18)
I'll say if you're dealing with the right branch and the right recruiter, I'll say that. Air Force is definitely not wavering you in. like an educational standard that I think they try to uphold.
Jess (35:23)
Hmm.
I see.
what ended up being your job in the Air Force?
Tonisha (35:34)
I ended up being a cop, but that was by choice. I went in wanting to be a cop. Everyone's like, what? Why? I was like, think because growing up, like I was saying earlier with my grandfather, going on base with him, the first thing you see when you come onto a base are the cops, right? They're checking to make sure your authorize to be on base. And when you see them, they stand out from everyone else on base because
Jess (35:56)
huh.
Tonisha (36:03)
hats are different, right? They're wearing berets. generally their uniform, if they're doing what supposed to do, as now them older have been in, their uniform is more sleek and put like a little... they do. no, they it's funny because sometimes of tell who's a cop even when they're just kind of walking.
Jess (36:16)
So they just really visually stand out, yeah.
Tonisha (36:24)
not because it's like they have like an asshole thing about them, but there is a certain kind of confidence I think that... okay, I apologize. are... not that they're... not that they're wa... but think there's a different... there's just a different air about them on bass.
Jess (36:29)
I'm going to blabe that out.
That's okay. of the bleep. You can cut as much as you want and I can bleep all of it out.
Tonisha (36:50)
I think growing up as a kid I caught that. And so I was just like, wow, that's what I wanna do. obviously coming black culture in America is kind of a big contrast of people. So even now when I'm like, I was a cop, people are like, you were a cop? And I'm like, yeah. just like, just don't seem like that would be.
your job, I guess my demeanor and stuff and I'm like, you know, and then some people are just also too, cause like I am black. So either way it's not a concept I think they expected to hear from me.
Jess (37:26)
how did you end up feeling about that job? And what was it like to be black woman cop in the Air Force?
Tonisha (37:35)
will say when I first got in, I enjoyed it. I liked like to learn. There's a lot of learning with As time went on, you get more into the job and do I don't think that I realized military is a very male-heavy dominated just career period.
And then going into the cop field is another very male-dominated heavy career field. So I was under like a double umbrella, if that makes sense. So learning how to maneuver through that definitely sometimes can be a challenge and was definitely a learning experience and a big like...
Jess (38:00)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (38:25)
I mean I already kind of got a gist of how the world kind of looks at me and treats me. But there's definitely times where I was just like, is wrong with people? what? okay. you gotta think, the military, people come from everywhere, right? People will enter intimately from everywhere. So it's like, you're stationed or you're people on...
what we call your flight, which is basically your group that you'd be assigned to work Are from everywhere. So it's like you experience with people from the South, dealing with people from Midwest, dealing with people from the West Coast, East Coast, all in one, right? So it's not like a concept of like, okay, I live in the West Coast and so I'm...
other than maneuver the people from this region. You're dealing with everyone. it is a very interesting, sometimes very also there is good and bad, I think managed to pull out the for situations. black female, common in the military was...
it was a challenge. I'll say it was a challenge.
Jess (39:48)
was it.
harder to have respect with your group of military cops than with the rest of the Air Force population that you were policing, like because you were their cop? Like, was there like this kind of in-group out-group within the Air Force that, because I feel like if you're a cop, you have some power, right?
Did you feel that around the other service members that were not cops?
Tonisha (40:20)
Yes, there definitely is a huge difference of...
like a short interaction right with the people you work with versus the rest of like we'll say the base populace. For one like your group that you work with you also train with there's some barriers that do get broke down once you start having to do certain things right because especially military like you're taught to you have to rely on other people right so you have to hope that these people know their job and do their job.
know their position, do their position correctly because we everyone has a position to play and they need to play it for everyone to succeed. And so as you work and train with the people, lot of stuff, barriers and things will get broken down and
Jess (40:59)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (41:05)
you start to a camaraderie with your as they call comrades are times but sometimes that takes that takes time and it takes certain being put in certain positions, right and people having to learn to trust overcome negative nuances they in their feelings and then the so some point you do
have trusted and you build that camaraderie with your group, then versus the rest of base populace, people still look at you as like you're a cop. on top of it, first of they're like, here comes the cops, know, whatever. And then whatever
Jess (41:36)
Hmm.
Tonisha (41:46)
their nuances are just by looking at you or your job. Each group, each, I'll say career field that works together, you're kind of built to be connected to each other. there's kind of a like,
us against them with the rest of the base. And not that they treat that we get trained up, the cops get trained away, but the rest of the base does kind of have like a unison like us, the cops kind of thing. I think until they get to know maybe like one or two particular people. And I'll say like when I first got in, when I came like went through basic all this stuff, and then you get to your base, and you have to do these like
intro to bass classes when you're which I honestly kind of think that it is a good thing. Initially you're like, my god, I go sit for two weeks and like whatever. one they're like having different people come in so you know the resources on bass and different stuff like that. Especially if you're new to the military. So it's like, you don't really know what you have access to or where or why. But then also you're in that course with all other people that are new also.
Jess (42:30)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (42:55)
So people that are new to the military and people and it's different career fields. So when you're there in that point, you're not the cop, you're not the civil engineering, you're not the linguist or whatever, you're all new going through this courses. So you kind of make friends, right? You make friends with different people. then I know after I got out of that course, there's a couple of people like we always, we all stay friends and like we'd meet up and still like have lunch. So it's like,
Jess (43:23)
Mm-hmm.
Tonisha (43:23)
that kind of helped. One of the guys, he was civil engineering and he just happened to be from Rancho Cordova which used to be a neighborhood in Tacoma and then they became their own city. I remember I seen him one day He's like, Rancho Cordova is his own city now. And I looked at him and I was like, okay.
Jess (43:41)
Wow, like
Tonisha (43:42)
And so he was like super excited and I was like, But him being civil engineering, me being a cop, right? So it's like these two people are interacting with each other and
Jess (43:47)
hahaha
Tonisha (43:58)
getting to like actually know each other in a way that how do we just see each other on base right people are like it's the cops or you know whatever it kind of gave me an intro too because then he has friends and
Jess (44:06)
Yeah, because you had that shared
newbie experience. Yeah.
Tonisha (44:10)
Yes,
yeah. you know, and then people tell their friends like, this is my friend, so and so, and this is whatever. it's weird because it's like, the military, there's a of like double, I don't know what you want to call it, because then it's like the military versus the civilians, right? And then it's like, even amongst each other, like you might have your little whatever, but then you do at some point stick together when it comes to other stuff. So.
is very interesting dynamic.
in the military. even amongst just all the branches. the branches talk mess about each but like nobody else can talk about us. so it's army will talk mess about air force or whatever. but then if a civilian person says something then no matter who it is they're gonna be like hey watch your
Jess (44:51)
huh.
Tonisha (44:57)
it
Jess (44:55)
It's like a sibling thing, You can like talk
give your siblings like grief and like kind of tease them, whatever. But like if other people are gonna tease your siblings, you're gonna be like, no, no, no, no. No, this is my brother. You're not gonna make fun of him. You know, I get to make fun of my brother. You don't get to make fun of my brother. I see. that's funny.
Tonisha (45:05)
Yeah, it's...yeah. Right?
Yes, like you don't have the status. yeah. And it's funny because,
yeah, it really is like that. guess it, it says Air Force and like everyone says the same thing and I was like, the chair force or whatever, right? And it's, I'm like, ha, you're like, ha ha ha, And like, because it's always the same, yeah, the chair force, it's always the same thing. And it's like,
Jess (45:31)
That's the joke, chair force.
Tonisha (45:37)
it's funny you guys always have the same joke. yeah, just... yeah, yeah. or yeah, just like the whole that or yeah, like we don't do anything, whatever. but i'm like it's funny because every branch says the same thing about us and i'm like the problem is that you guys don't know what we do and that should say a lot. like we obviously understand the element of like...
Jess (45:37)
You get used to you get to The joke is that pilots get to sit. That's the joke.
Yeah.
Tonisha (46:04)
confidentiality, right? And so, because yeah, most people are like, what do you guys do? I'm like, we do the things that are... Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's funny because I've worked with every branch, especially being deployed overseas and war and different things. And they'll all joke at us, but at the end of the day, I've heard all...
Jess (46:06)
I
Tonisha (46:26)
eventually like yeah I should have went Air Force or if I could do it I'd probably go Air Force or they'd be like Air Force is a smart choice. I was like okay cool. would say other than us the Marines are probably the only other ones a totally different type of like life dedication. them a lot kudos.
it's a different intensity. That's what I'll say, it's a different intensity. if the intensity is over that, it's probably like a Navy SEAL or Force Special Forces or Army Green Berets and stuff like that.
Jess (46:48)
Hmm.
Right, was going to say green berets. These are the things that I've seen in the media. Like, yeah, Marines, green berets, Navy SEALs. Like, I think of them as very, very
Tonisha (47:14)
Yeah.
Jess (47:16)
Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoyed this episode. In part two, we hear about Tonisha's deployments to Iraq, her reflections and advice to young people considering military service, her future plans, and more. Hope you tune in. If you like this podcast, this is a small budding program, so remember to follow us and share with your networks to help us grow.
We're also on Instagram, at thecultureful, where we look forward to your messages and ideas for future episodes. This episode was produced and edited by me, with assistant editing by Ruben Gnanaruban. I'm Jess Lin. See you soon.