Cultureful
What was it like for a Colombian lawyer growing up in a small town and then immigrating to the U.S.? How did a Jewish New Yorker put her kids in Jewish school and why? What was it like to have three weddings as a Bengali American?
These are the kinds of personal interviews on Cultureful. Living, breathing, everyday you and me culture. It's a kind of traveling and getting past the surface. People from around the world sharing personal experiences in their own words.
Host Jess Lin (she, her), is a multilingual Taiwanese American who has spent many years abroad, off the beaten-path. On Cultureful, she interviews friends and other guests about major life events and stages like childhood, dating, weddings, parenting, and immigration journeys. She is also curious about the everyday- what people cook, what they do for fun, what friendship is like for them. Hope you enjoy meeting the people she connects with.
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Cultureful
S1E9: Denetra, Part 1: Black American - DeAndre always had the biggest smile
In honor of Women's History Month, host Jess Lin sits down with Denetra Smiley, a 54-year-old African American medical coder from the Gullah Geechee community, now living in Acworth, Georgia. Denetra shares her personal story, her son DeAndre's story, and her path through grief and healing after DeAndre’s passed from cancer. Denetra speaks candidly about her childhood, the importance of her cultural roots, the example of her parents’ marriage, her experiences raising two sons, and the founding of her support group- Parents who have lost a child/children support group on Facebook, and her business: Smiley Connections LLC, which assists parents who have lost a child. This is part one of a two-part conversation, with the second part dropping next week. Watch the video recording on YouTube, along with shared photos for a more immersive experience.
Watch this podcast on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/e1w5YTYnrE0?si=22UgQ0YZaT4SmFPn
Find out more about Denetra’s work:
https://smileyconnectionsllc.org/
Donate to the On the Road to Healing Retreat:
https://gofund.me/0899b5e4
Denetra's TikTok: smileyconnectionsllc
Denetra's Instagram: @smileyconnections
In loving memory of DeAndre Thompson
Thanks so much for listening! Follow, review, and share to help us grow. @thecultureful on Instagram
Transcript created by AI and may contain errors.
Jess Lin: [00:00:00] You are listening to Cultureful. I'm your host Jess Lin. This month in honor of Women's History Month, I sat down with Dimitri Smiley, a 54-year-old African American medical coder from the Gullah Geechee community in Charleston, South Carolina. Now living in Acworth, Georgia. RA's son DeAndre. Passed away from cancer at 28.
In this episode, she shares her personal story, DeAndre's story, and her path through grief and healing, one that has led her to do incredibly inspiring work, supporting parents who have lost a child. This is part one of a two part conversation with the second part drop. Next week we did have a few audio issues, so some short sections have been [00:01:00] remastered with ai.
Also, this is the first episode where I've posted the video recording on YouTube along with photos Denetra has shared. If you want to watch while you listen, search ful on YouTube to check out the video. Thank you for being here and happy Women's History Month.
Hey. Good to see you.
Denetra Smiley: Good to see you too. Good to see you too.
Jess Lin: How you doing today?
Denetra Smiley: I was excited about doing this today because, um, it's been a while since I've done something like this, um, since I'd say about 2022 was the last one that I did. And, um, I, I was never featured on a podcast before, so I was excited about that.
So thank you again for inviting me. And, um, my business with the Smiley Connections, LLC, and parents that have lost children support group. So I, I, I represent three people, three different people, myself, my group, and my business. [00:02:00]
Jess Lin: I'm really grateful that you're here to share your story. I'm really grateful that you're here to share DeAndre's story too, your son.
Mm-hmm. Um, and also just, you know, how. Your experiences led to the creation of, you know, the business and the group and, you know, all of it, and the bill, which we'll get into later. These are personal topics and I think absolutely it is extremely brave, um, and vulnerable to like come and, and be sharing, you know, this.
This stuff publicly, but also like in your advocacy work. So I would really like to get started with getting to know you first. Absolutely. Because you know, you're DeAndre's mom and so we need to know a bit about you, um, where you come from and. What Detra is like. So yeah, tell us about, you know, where's your family from and what was your community and childhood like when you're growing up?
Denetra Smiley: I'm originally from Charleston, South Carolina. I was born and raised [00:03:00] there. I may live in Georgia, but I am a South Carolinian all the way. I'm a Geechee girl.
Jess Lin: Side note, the Gullah Geechee people mostly living along the coastal areas of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida are descendants of enslaved Africans who have preserved a distinct culture, language, and traditions with deep West African roots.
Denetra Smiley: So I, I definitely carry my roots and I will continue to carry my roots to the day I die. I love where I grew up at. Back then, my mom and dad were both working parents. Um, we lived in the projects, which was, um, called Ben Tillman. I'm gonna tell you, the first 11 years of living there was the most amazing years of my life.
Like we played [00:04:00] outside, we have friends, we rode bikes, we did things that kids don't do nowadays. You know, we had a double, we had a double Dutch team. Um, you know, we girls played football with the guys. It was just fun all day until the light came on outside. It was time
Jess Lin: to go in the house. So some of our listeners are international.
Um, and so when we say projects in the US and like the projects that you grew up in, can you describe, so our projects
Denetra Smiley: was, um, like. I would say you would see not on tv. Now the projects are so different. Um, they were more family oriented back then. Like everybody looked out for every one kid and you know, neighbors looked out for one another and there was no, you know, big crimes or.
People killing each other in the neighborhoods. Um, they were apartments that were conjoined together just [00:05:00] like you would see on tv. You know, it was just like a, like a community. And, um, and we, we kind of looked out for each other and, uh, we loved one another, just like family. So the, the projects then, and the projects now.
Jess Lin: Mm-hmm.
Denetra Smiley: Uh. I, I wouldn't live in the projects now because I, I don't, you know, I don't know. It's like the generations have changed. So it's like, it's a lot more going on in the projects now than it was back then, even if it was something going on back then. Mm-hmm. It was like we were too young to even know and it wasn't so open as it is now.
Um, you know, people, I. Hear projects now, and they think of it as a bad thing because it's so much crime, drug dealing and things like that in the, in the, in the neighborhood. And it's just not among [00:06:00] African Americans. It's among Caucasians. Um, so you have different nationalities living in projects now. And, and it's a different, it's a different type of ball game right now.
It's not the same. And so
Jess Lin: when you were growing up in the projects, um, what were your neighbors like? Was it mostly African American? Yes. Was it
Denetra Smiley: mixed? Mm-hmm. Um, it was mostly African Americans that lived in the projects where I lived. Um, every now and then you would see one, maybe one or two, um, you know, Caucasian person.
But, um, it was always African Americans and yeah, and they were anywhere between two to uh, 15 children. You know, some people had lots of children back then, so. But it was comfortable. It was home and it was a place that I will never forget the rest of my
Jess Lin: life. Wow. And just, it's [00:07:00] interesting to hear, you know, how projects have changed over time because Yeah.
Like that, you know, when you're talking about like your childhood, I'm like, oh wow, like that sounds like. You know so much community and so much people looking out for each other and you felt safe to play and all this stuff, and that's
Denetra Smiley: a big thing right there, safe to play. Mm. We were in a place where we were safe to play.
We didn't have to worry about anyone coming in that was not wanted there because we all knew everybody. So we knew everybody, parents and their family just about. So it's like if you. We're a stranger coming in there and doing things, you had no business, we would know, because that's how close the community was.
Mm-hmm. So I basically, um, I grew up in a two-parent household. My parents took really good care of me. It's just me and my sister. We don't have any other siblings. Um, so we were spoiled. Um, my dad drive the city bus for [00:08:00] 26, 27 years before he retired or went out on medical. Um, 'cause he had to have a kidney transplant.
Um, and my mom, she had to leave work early 'cause she had lupus, so she was unable to continue to work for quite some time.
Jess Lin: Oh wow.
Denetra Smiley: And then she passed away at a very early age of 49. Um, the lupus took effect on her body at an early age. My dad lived to see 73. He never had any more problems with his kidneys after he had his kidney transplant.
So he would've had his kidney for about 30, 31 years when he passed away. So that's amazing. We left off, um, of the projects at the age of 11 and my dad bought this amazing, amazing house still in Charleston. I thought our house was the biggest house on the block because my dad made [00:09:00] sure that Uhhuh, my dad, made sure that we were happy, like he was my first love.
He was my first everything. Like he, he made sure that I knew what a man was supposed to be by the way he treated my mother. Um, my mother and him lived, um, where they were married about 30 years before she passed away. So it's like I'm, I'm trying to follow those same footsteps. I'm at, mm-hmm. 28 going on 29 years of marriage right now.
So I am truly blessed to have somebody in my life that I can share. Mm-hmm. You know, to say maybe I'll share the rest of my life with them, because that's where I wanna be.
Jess Lin: Mm-hmm. For your mom and dad, how did, how did they meet? And when you talk about, you know, emulating their relationship, like what kind of things?
You know,
Denetra Smiley: I think. From my [00:10:00] story that I heard, they met in school Uhhuh. They weren't that far behind each other in school. Um, my dad was like a drum majorette in school, so he was into the band and music. He loved music. Um, my mom, she was a great singer. Um, you know, she was always this pretty girl 'cause she had me in pageants when I was little.
So, Uhhuh. Yeah. So it's like they met, you know, then, and then, um, pretty much they, they, they got together. They were a beautiful couple. They were so beautiful together. They've always been beautiful together. My mom was very humble. Mm-hmm. Very humble spirit, very smooth, easy going. She never got into anything.
She was never allowed or. You know, BOLs or anything, but they had good times. We traveled, um, a lot when we were younger. You know, we went to Disney World, you know, we got to see things when we were little. Not big things, but just, just enough to know that they enjoyed [00:11:00] their lives as well. 'cause they traveled.
Um, and then, you know, they made sure that we, we were happy too.
Jess Lin: And what were some of the values that they instilled in you?
Denetra Smiley: Be respectful. Um, be mannerable. Um, you know, you have to make sure that you value yourself, um, because if you don't value yourself, nobody else will. So those were the most important things, you know, definitely manners and respect because we never called any adult by their first name.
Even today, my chil I've taught my children that, and even today my children still call people. Miss Tanya, miss deedee, miss this Uhhuh because. I believe in manners and I teach that to my grandchildren as well. Like it is, yes ma'am, or no ma'am, and, and manners. And I taught that to my kids. And this is a very, very, very important say.
Manners will take you places that money will never take you. [00:12:00]
Jess Lin: Oh, interesting,
Denetra Smiley: interesting. Yes.
Jess Lin: This is a side note. You know I'm new to the south, right? Yeah. And I grew up in California and I am, I just turned 38, and when I moved here last year, I was 37. And just going around town just to. Like at stores or the doctor's office or whatever.
I was so surprised and confused by all the times. Someone my age or slightly younger would call me, ma'am. Yes. I took it as like a sign of like, am do I look really old? Like, what's happening? No,
Denetra Smiley: no. And then
Jess Lin: finally people were like, no, that's just respect. That's how people show respect. Here it
Denetra Smiley: is. Respect.
They call my husband now OG because he's now in that age. You know, he only 40, 49. But you know, the younger guys call him og. What's up, og? You know, a aunt, uncle. I'm like, don't call me auntie because I'm not an auntie. So you [00:13:00] prefer ma'am? Yes, ma'am is fine. I, I, I love to hear the young generation with manners.
Um, if they call me, ma'am, I'm taking that with respect because I know that somebody taught them the, the respect to respect your elders, because you have so many young people out here now. That are s in front of you. They will, they will do anything in front of you. Like, it's like you're not even a grownup to them.
It's like, I don't have no respect for you. I'm gonna do what I wanna do. I still do, ma'am. Yes sir. No sir. I still do it. So it's like when they do it to me, I take it as respect because. They could have been calling me anything else, but I, I prefer them to call me. Ma'am,
Jess Lin: this is, this is important for me to hear because I think I need to start saying Ma'am and sir more and add that to my vocabulary here, because if that's how people hear res, uh, receive respect, I.
Yes. I don't mean to be disrespectful, I just didn't grow up with that. Those kinds of terms. Yeah, it's a cultural
Denetra Smiley: thing and it's, you know, it's, it's no disrespect, it's just that you have to adjust to your culture wherever you [00:14:00] go. You have to adjust to the culture, so.
Jess Lin: Right. 'cause I want people to feel that I am respect.
'cause I do mean to respect them. And I just need to remind myself that this is how people receive that respect here.
Denetra Smiley: Yes, yes. Yeah, so I, yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Now, you may call somebody ma'am, and they be like, oh no, don't call me, ma'am. You can call me Pam. Don't, don't call me ma'am. Uhhuh, because they don't wanna feel old.
That has nothing to do with old, it's, it's just out of the, the kindness and respect for another human being. That's all it is.
Jess Lin: Yeah. And I re realized that when I was, um, at a yoga studio recently when this older man called me, ma'am. And I was just, well, because I was walking away from him and he was trying to get my attention, and I turned around and I was like, surely he's not talking to me.
And I was like, wow. He was looking at me trying to hand me a piece of paper and I was like, oh my gosh, he is talking to me.
Denetra Smiley: Yes, he's talking to you. So I was like,
Jess Lin: right. It really is not an age thing. So that, that was interesting. No, [00:15:00] um, that's something that I'm learning here.
Denetra Smiley: It's not an age thing. I promise you.
It's, it's a respect thing.
Jess Lin: When you were a kid. How would people describe your personality? Like when you were maybe like, you know, a teenager, early teens?
Denetra Smiley: So when I was younger, people would describe my personality as, I would say, shy. I used to be so shy and bashful back in the day, but I used, used to, I used to love to sing and, um.
I, I don't, I don't think I would have been described as what I've described now as outspoken and, you know, be able to talk about a subject without even writing anything down. So it's like, um, yeah, I was, I was pretty shy back in the days. It took me a long time for me to get to the point where I would walk in the room now and say, hello.
So, really? Yeah, so now it's like I'll walk in and, you know, I read the room, but I still would speak and whoever don't speak, [00:16:00] you know, Hey, I, I did my due diligence. Um, so basically, you know, we grew up, um, I attended middle school. I mean, uh, elementary school, middle school, high school is when, um, I got pregnant.
Um. I was in 11th grade and, um, I didn't finish out school, so I ended up getting my GED because I, it was just so much as a young girl. Mm-hmm. Trying to finish out school and then trying to figure out this thing with baby and making, you know, you know, figuring out life. I had to figure out life early. So I had my first son at um, 19 and I had my second son going on 20.
So it's like I had two kids back to back. So I was, um, an adult at an early age. I moved out of my parents' house at 19 because I was able to take care of me and my children at the [00:17:00] time, and I became a, a young mother. Um,
Jess Lin: how did you support yourself when you had. So your first son, his name is Artise.
Denetra Smiley: Artise?
Yes.
Jess Lin: Um, and DeAndre. DeAndre. Mm-hmm.
Denetra Smiley: You were
Jess Lin: 19, 20. How did you support yourself and the two of them to be able to move out? I know, well back then,
Denetra Smiley: you know, like I said, I was younger, so, um, I was on section eight. So Section eight helped me, um, get an apartment and be able to, um, take, have my boys in one home with me and, um.
I did that for about, I would say four years. I was on section eight, maybe four years. And um, 'cause I had to move out that apartment within six months 'cause they were selling it to a company that wasn't taking Section eight. So I had to find another apartment. So when I moved to my other apartment, I spent four years there, um, before I, my husband and then North Carolina.[00:18:00]
Um, joined the Marine Corps and, uh, we moved away and went to, um, Jacksonville, North Carolina.
Jess Lin: And can you, um, explain Section eight to some of our international listeners? So
Denetra Smiley: Section eight is basically temporary housing assistance. Um, just say for instance, your rent may be $1,800. Um, section eight may pay depending on if you have a job.
If you don't have a job, they may pay the whole thing and then sometimes they pay the majority of it. I say just say 1700. They'll pay, you have to pay the other hundred dollars. So you are on a subsidized living until you can provide for you and your children at that time. You know, things were, like I said, I I would say a young adult, starting out as an adult, really, because I had two children and then you know that pretty much.
Um, that helped me get to where I am today. It it, you know, when you're on those types of assistance, um, if you don't need them, don't use them. [00:19:00] Use them when you have to or when you're eligible for it because it, it really makes it horrible for other people who really need it and can't get it because you have some people that are continually using it and they don't even need it.
Jess Lin: And so when, when you were on section eight, were you also working?
Denetra Smiley: Um, I was sick working at first, but then I end up working. Um, and it wasn't, uh, it wasn't a lot, you know, back then the, the pay wasn't that great, but they would go by your income and I wasn't making enough for them to not help me. So they did, did help me.
My rent would raise a little bit each more. I would have to pay a little bit more each time because. I'm working and I'm making income, which is, you know, feasible because when you work, you, you pay for, you know, where you live. So I, um, so I started paying a little bit more each year until, um, eventually, like I said, we, we came up off of it because, um, I got married and moved on with my [00:20:00] life and, right.
You didn't
Jess Lin: need it anymore.
Denetra Smiley: Didn't need it anymore. But I thank, I thank God for them. I was on section eight and I had food stamps as well. Food stamps would help you. You know, get your food, uh, they call it snap now. Um, help you get food and, and, um, nutritional things you need for you and your family. And that really helped me and my boys out.
They were little, um, but I made sure that they ate every day. Um, made sure they were clean, made sure they had the best of everything. And anybody who knows me knows I took great care of my children, even at a young age. So. I, I am happy to experience that journey that I went through that journey and, um, I wouldn't change it for the world.
Jess Lin: What kind of jobs did you work and how did, like who watched them when you were at work?
Denetra Smiley: My mom, so my mom was able to watch my boys while I was at work. My parents did. I would take them to their home. My mom didn't play, um, with me leaving my kids over there for long periods of time. She said, you can [00:21:00] go to work.
Or take care of any other important business. But when you're done, come get your children. Uhhuh
Jess Lin: Uhhuh,
Denetra Smiley: it's unlike, you know, the grandmothers these days where we just about have full custody of our children, our grandchildren, but my mom didn't play that. My mom would watch them for me and she would make sure that, you know, um, she would keep them for me while I work and everything.
So I was working, um, my dad took me to my first job. Which was at buy low grocery store. So my first job was at a grocery store. I loved the job, but then I didn't like it, so I ended up working at McDonald's Next.
And then after that, I think, I don't know, it was just little odd jobs here and there, but then I finally found my niche. Um, I started working for Verizon back in 2003 for something like that. I really liked that. Verizon taught me customer service and taught me how to talk on the [00:22:00] phone properly and to deal with people who.
You know, irate this over their cell phones.
Jess Lin: Mm-hmm.
Denetra Smiley: So I learned how to do customer service, and that became my number one niche. Um, because I can get on a phone and I could probably sell anybody anything on the phone, but I'm not a seller. I hate selling, I don't like collections or selling, but because I know how to build rapport with people.
Customer service wise, I probably can, you know, get them to calm down or take what I'm selling. So Uhhuh, I land customer service. Um, I've done it for over 25 years. Um, I think that dealing with so many, um, after Verizon, I went into the medical field, so I would say about 2008. So I've been in the medical field for quite some time.
And I started out doing CNA, um, a certified nursing assistant. But I figured fastly that that was not for me. So I [00:23:00] end up doing the behind the scenes. I love to take care of my patients. Mm-hmm. And I love to make sure that they're taking care of paper wise, I make sure that they got the best health that they can get possibly in order for them to make sure that they're taken care of.
So. That's where I'm at right now. I'm, I'm in that part of the medical field.
Jess Lin: Yeah, I can see that be being a really good fit for you. Um, and you are really good with people.
Denetra Smiley: Well.
Jess Lin: Back to when you're like 20. Mm-hmm. And you have Artise and DeAndre. Mm-hmm. And they're both tiny. What was going on for you internally?
Like were you daunted by that situation where you had two kids and you're like a young adult and working these jobs? Like where was your mindset at?
Denetra Smiley: Well, having two kids at a young age, yes. That could play a big part on your mental. Because you're starting out as this, this young person, and then you're having these kids, they're like, boom, they're here.
And so it's like I was prepared. Like I, I [00:24:00] knew how to run a household. I knew how to cook, I knew how to clean, I knew how to take care of my children. 'cause those are the things that my mom taught me. So I knew that I was, um, capable of doing those things. And I have been. Since then, I've been taking care of my kids, my grandkids, my parents when they were sick, my grandparents.
So my mom taught me and instilled all of these things in me at a very young age. And you know, teaching responsibility. And these are the things that we try to instill in our grandkids now that we've already done with our children. But. With our grandchildren. We try to ex instill these things now so that way they'll know and have that, you know, as they grow up.
Because like I said, these are the things that are beneficial for your life. You have to know how to cook, you know, have to know how to clean. You have to, I mean like these are
Jess Lin: life skills.
Denetra Smiley: Life skills, these our life skills. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, so really at first, you know, it was [00:25:00] a lot thinking, Hey, I got these kids, or whatever, but I think.
Because I was a mother, it was just something in me that kicked in right away and said, you're a mom now, so this is what gonna happen. This is how this is gonna happen. This is what we gotta do. So there is no excuses and, and you know, some people are meant to be parents and some people just ain't. And I was meant to be a parent, so I took care of my children.
Jess Lin: Aw. Let's shift and talk about DeAndre
Denetra Smiley: Absolutely.
Jess Lin: His life, his personality, and Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm, I wanna hear his story. So, so let's start with, um, let's take our time with it. Let's start with when he was born. You were 20, what year was that?
Denetra Smiley: He was born 1990. Mm-hmm. He was actually born the same day as my son.
Uh, my dad. My dad's birthday is the same day. Wow. Yeah. What day is that? June 25th. It's like now when their birthdays come, I have to celebrate the both of them because they're [00:26:00] gone. You know, as a young, um, boy, DeAndre was very talented, very smart. He liked music. He loved music, he loved to singing. He loved to dance.
I would buy him these little play keyboard things and he would walk around the house and play these keyboards and sing uhhuh. He loved music.
Jess Lin: Did you sing with him a lot? Do you think that was kind of how it grew or how, how Yeah. He would watch me
Denetra Smiley: sing 'cause we were church going, um, I, I had my kids in church just about every Sunday.
I was very active in my church choir. So they would always see me sing a lot. So I guess he got that from his mom. Mm-hmm. And, um, he would love to just play different, you know, music and sing and all that good stuff. And I would just watch him through the house, just doing all those things. Um, I don't think he ever entered a talent show, not that I can remember, but he loves, he loved music, he loved culinary arts, so.
When [00:27:00] he, you know, got to high school, cooking was his thing. He wanted, he wanted to learn how to cook. He was in different cooking competitions. He went to Garrett Academy of Technology in Charleston, South Carolina, where. They had trade schools there, you know, uh, culinary arts, you know, auto mechanic, things like that where I wish they would, you know, come back with a lot of that stuff for the kids there.
So they would have more of a trade and learn how to do something different, you know? Hmm. He would also be in college, um, things like Upward Bound, um. He was a part of that. And, um, some my little programs, I, I prepared him early for college. He would go on college tours and, um, you know, stay the weekend or the, or the night or whatever, things like that.
Uh, with the school. To give them that feel of college and to see what it's gonna be like, you know, once they get there. So
Jess Lin: as a young person, what was his temperament like? What was his personality like?
Denetra Smiley: He had a [00:28:00] temperament. I, I would say he had a very outgoing personality. Yeah. He, he's always had a big smile on his face.
Most of the pictures I sent you probably show some of those smiles, even in his darkest days of his late, you know, the. You walk in his hospital room and he would just be smiling, you know his. He used it very well. And so everybody knows him by his smile. Everybody said, I don't remember your son. He always had the biggest smile on his face.
So, and he was like that Ever since he was a small child, I really, I never had any problems. I either one of my boys, they were never suspended from school. They were always, um, good students in school. 'cause they know that, um, their mom. Didn't play with them. So, um, if I get a phone call from school, I'm coming to sit to the school all day with you.
Mm-hmm. Until you figure out [00:29:00] what's going on. That was so, so I was that type of mom. I stayed involved with PTA and all kind of projects and community and. Community in schools program. I, me and my husband was very active in school with our boys and made sure that they did what they were supposed to do.
So he, he was very outgoing, outspoken, always loved to smile, always.
Jess Lin: When he was in, like say elementary school mm-hmm. Who were the main people that were in his life influencing him? Like adults and also kinda like what kind friends did he hang out with?
Denetra Smiley: Um, so like, let's say middle school, I would say it would be me, his dad, which is my husband, which is not his biological dad, that's his stepdad, but that's who he called dad.
Um, he's called him that since he was five years old. Um, up until his death, which was at the age of 28. My dad, his grand, his grandfather, um, and then [00:30:00] I would say his grandmother. And great grandparents and aunt on his dad's side, his biological dad's side, they were very active. They would come and get him on the Sundays that we didn't go to church.
They would come and get him and take them to church with him. With them. He would spend holidays over there. Um, you know, and weekends when his, his grandma would come and get him for the weekend. So he spent a lot of time with that side of the family as well. Um, even the out of towners in Maryland, he had some aunts and cousins out in Maryland.
Um, they all were very close. Um, to him. He had, um, a very solid foundation. My sister, his aunt, you know. On my side of the family. Um, his brother, his two cousins that my sister has two daughters, his two cousins. Um, and friend-Wise DeAndre always had friends. He, uh, he had some of the sweetest little friends.
He would bring them to the house, you know, as he got older. 'cause when they were [00:31:00] younger. I didn't care for kids to be in and out my house. So it's like, no, no, he can't spend the night. No, he can't come in. You know, I, I was that type of mom because my mom raised us like that. Like we couldn't have all kind of kids in our house or in our bedroom and things like that.
We, that's our home, that's our sacred place. So it's like you're not gonna just be bringing any and everybody into the home. Uh, so, but he had very good friends. Um, girlfriends, guy, friends, they all were very sweet, young lady and men. He would bring a few by the house every now and then from high school up in the college area, and, um, they would call us pops and moms, you know, I, I always enjoyed seeing him and his friends.
So he had some really, he had a really, man, he had a really solid foundation and a solid friendships and, you know, things like that. So. My son's childhood was a great childhood. [00:32:00] Like we made sure that our kids, their kids, I, I'm saying everybody who was involved in their life, they took really good care to make sure that my kids always had or whatever.
So memories with him, I would say this is not like an entertainment memory, but I think that one of the greatest memories. As a child for, for me with him was seeing him graduate and getting ready to graduate from high school maybe. Mm. And going, getting ready to go to college when he was a part of this program.
And, and they spoke very highly of him and the things that he did within the program and as a person, it made me felt like I did something right in my life. Mm-hmm. To help help my children get to where they are in their lives. So
Jess Lin: that you raised him, right?
Denetra Smiley: Yeah. So that was, that [00:33:00] was a great memory for me, just, just knowing that my child is excelling, thinking about the foundation he had behind him to make sure that he gets to that point.
I can't pinpoint just one, but that, that, that alone by itself, just to see your child. Keep going in life and not being locked up behind bars or mm-hmm dead or on drugs or, you know, that's a win-win for not only me, but for him as well. 'cause he knew what to do to keep going in life. Even when he stumbled, you know, he knew how to kept going and he didn't give up.
So those moments are the best moments for me
Jess Lin: to see that he's out in the world and he's kind of handling all of these. Yeah,
Denetra Smiley: he became an adult. He was responsible man. DeAndre. DeAndre lived his life and he was such an amazing young man. Did he have a rebellious face as a teenager? [00:34:00] Um, yeah. He, he cut school one, um, high school, um, year.
It was actually before they actually had the, um, senior cut day. He cut school and somebody must have seen him or something. I don't know what happened, but he was working at Wendy's and my husband went to his job 'cause he thought that everything was gonna be cool and he, my husband, let him go to work and everything.
And when he got home from work, he went to his job and told him. He can clock out and come home because he gotta notice today that he got school and he would not be working the rest of the week.
My was very, and I don't blame him. For that. But that was the only rebellious time that I could think of that he actually did something that bad. And then when it came to senior cut day, he didn't even go school. My husband was like, DeAndre the day of senior cut day, are you going to, are you going any place?
He was like, [00:35:00] no, I don't. I don't wanna, I don't have no place I wanna go. He said, well, today is the day you can actually cut stool.
Jess Lin: Okay. So it sounds like your husband, you know, very stern, like how would you describe your relationship and your parenting style with DeAndre versus your husband's relationship and parenting style?
Denetra Smiley: So my relationship with, um, DeAndre there, sometimes I think I used to be a little bit more stern than my husband is. He would be like. Y'all don't wanna deal with y'all mama because she mad. You know, my husband is a very stern but fair person. He would be stern, but then he would tell you why. He would give you a lesson out of it and he would make sure that you understand.
So that way the next time you'll think about your action before you do a reaction.
Jess Lin: Because
Denetra Smiley: [00:36:00] every action don't require a reaction. So he, he gets stern with them and make them understand that, that just because doesn't mean that you need to. So he, he had a close relationship with, um, my husband, with my, when he was, you know, sick in the hospital.
My hu my husband would go and, and bathe him and, you know, just rub his feet, his back. He was just going through so much and you know, my husband was hating to see that so. It was like he would travel back and forth with me to DC because we were still living in South Carolina before we moved here. And I would, I would go frequent, like often and be there for weeks and then he'll come up, you know, when he had the chance to come up and then be, you know, be with me.
And then it would just be them two. I would go and get my rest. It would be them two. Everything. That's my daddy. Every nurse, doctor, walk through door. That's my daddy. This is my daddy, this is my dad. He loved. Mm-hmm. Loved, [00:37:00] loved their relationship. He loved their relationship. They
Jess Lin: were close. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
They were very close. Um, so you were talking about how your mom raised you to have all these life skills, cooking, cleaning, all this stuff. When did you expect your kids, um, to start learning how to cook, to start learning how to clean around the house when they were little? I. Well cleaning part
Denetra Smiley: right away.
Mm-hmm. They, they needed to know, I taught them as, as little boys, pick your toys up, get all the stuff, your shoes, line your clothes, line your shoes up, you know, get your, you know, things like that. I would do the, I would make up their beds and all that good stuff, and then later they, they learn, I taught them how to.
But I was a very clean person. Still. I am, uh, I don't like nastiness per se. Um, side
Jess Lin: note, I went to your house yesterday to help set up the equipment and I was just, I asked you a couple times 'cause I was in disbelief. I was like, this a bottle, is this a model home? Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, [00:38:00] it's, it's spotless, but it's also like, just really.
It's beautifully decorated, so
Denetra Smiley: Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's simple to me, but you know, everyone who comes here always say that, be like, I never come to your house, and it's dirty. Like, do you ever live in here? I be like,
Jess Lin: I did. I asked you that same question yesterday. I was like, yeah, you're like, do you live here? You actually live here? You know, so,
Denetra Smiley: yeah. Yes, you asked me that and I was like. Why did she ask you that?
Jess Lin: When you come to my house on Friday to return the equipment, just, you know, manage your expectations. Like
Denetra Smiley: it's, I, listen, I don't wanna set no expectations before I go to nobody's house.
All I know is when you come to my house, I know my house better be clean if it ain't clean. My mom's like that too. Yeah. I'm mad. I'm mad. You just don't know. I get on my husband all the time. He like, he open things and don't. Put it [00:39:00] up or you know, or empty stuff and I'm so, I don't know. I don't think, it's not OCDI know it's not because if it was OCD, my would be cleaner than this
Jess Lin: Uhhuh.
Denetra Smiley: But I just think it's, I don't know. I don't know what it's from. I think because I used to have a job, um, cleaning, um. Hotels, hotel. And I also did a job cleaning hospitals, the rooms and stuff. And you know, I learned how to do environmental services work day and too, 'cause my mom did that kind of work back in the days too.
Mm-hmm. So it was like, yeah, I gotta have the chrome shining on the, on the, the bathroom, um, the things, the faucet, everything. Yeah, everything. The faucet, everything. Gotta be clean. Like, it's like I don't want to see nothing outta place. My sister always laughs at me. She was like, girl. I'm not even finished with that yet.
And you are wiping up already. Can you just wait till I finish?
Jess Lin: Okay. And so, [00:40:00] um, and like the other parenting question I wanted to ask you was for, so you and your husband raising your two boys, African-American
Denetra Smiley: Absolutely.
Jess Lin: In the US Yeah. You know, African American men and boys face a lot. Mm-hmm. Of. Racism, a lot of, you know, yes.
Different things, right? And so, yes. And they have to navigate a lot growing up, so Absolutely. Were there things that you taught them that you kind of focused on? Because they have to navigate the world as Absolutely. African American boys,
Denetra Smiley: as African American, uh, boys and men. We had to instill in them the truth.
They, they have seen some of the things that have been happening on TV as they're growing up and things of that nature. And we kind of like what we do as parents. We sit down and we, we ask questions about [00:41:00] their beings, their surroundings, their this, their that. To initiate some of the talks because you have to not only, you know, tell them, well, this is going to happen if you do this, but.
You have to still know what they're doing in society in order for you to say, okay, don't do that no more. That's not good. Don't ever do that. You know, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do this. So the, the stuff that me and my husband would instill in them as black boys and black men is you have to know your worth.
You have to know the laws. You have to make sure that you're not hanging around people that are going to cause you to lose everything you have. Because in South Carolina, the hands of one is the hands of all. That means that one get in trouble, you all get in trouble.
Jess Lin: Hmm. So
Denetra Smiley: when they bought cars and things, we said [00:42:00] don't, don't have.
All your friends or all these people in your car because you don't know who has what on them, um, or whatever the case may be. And if the police pull you over and if one person got this, then they're gonna think you all have it. So we, we try to instill things in them that we know, that, you know, help prevent having any further look into anything.
Because you have good cops, you have bad cops. I mean, that's all to it. Mm-hmm. I mean it, that's just life. I don't, I don't discriminate against any of them. They're there to do their job and I'm hoping they do their job well. But as far as, you know, our, um, race, we do suffer a lot, um, with our black men and black boys because they get stereotyped just because they big.
And you know, my husband used to weigh, you know, a good bit of pounds before he lost weight. And people were like, yeah, okay, big man, you know, this and that. He's not a threat to [00:43:00] anybody, you know, just because he's big and he's black. He is not a threat to anybody. He's a big old teddy bear. I always tell people, get to know the people that you're around.
Get to know them. Don't judge them. There is no judgment here. Nobody has the right to judge anybody. So get to know the people that you're hanging around and, and don't judge them from what you hear other people say. You give them the benefit of the doubt, and then that's how you basically figure out, you know, who's who.
But, you know, we never had any problems, per se, with our boys having to go through that. Now, my husband has been, has some run-ins with the police before. Mm-hmm. It was, it was very traumatic and it's, uh, part of his PTSD as well and probably part of mine too, now that I think about it. But, um, it was very, uh, traumatic.
Um, and I think that he is okay. [00:44:00] Authority, but then authority figures, he, he's not, he doesn't do well with them because of all the past for, for the past experience as he has experienced as a black man.
Jess Lin: Right? Yeah.
Denetra Smiley: I never had the run in, um, with the police myself and I, and I pray, I never do.
Jess Lin: You know, hearing that your boys had to grow up with like, so much more awareness
Denetra Smiley: Yes.
Than comfortability.
Jess Lin: Yeah, and just alertness and like, just so, so many things. That, you know, they had to be aware of growing up that like mm-hmm. Other kids don't have to think about and that's just,
Denetra Smiley: yeah.
Jess Lin: I mean,
Denetra Smiley: yeah. I know what you, I, I, I understand what you're saying. It is almost like some of the black men and, uh, young men now, it's like they can't live comfortably because they're always looking over their shoulder to make sure they're doing the right thing or making sure that nobody's trying [00:45:00] to hurt them or.
Doing what they're doing or whatever. It's really sad, um, that we live in that type type of world. But, you know, I don't know. I, I'm hoping that one day that'll change and, and, and life will get to the point where everybody can just be as one and unity and, and, and nobody's out there hurting one another because of the skin.
Your skin color.
Jess Lin: Well said.
Denetra Smiley: I'm praying one day it, it, this world will be that place. I'll probably be long gone from here, but I, I'm hoping that I get to see at least some of it before I leave because I know because we really need a breakthrough in peace and unity right now. It, it, it could be. As much as one little thing, one person start one thing.
You know how things just go from thing. Trickle, trickle, trickle, trickle.
Jess Lin: I, I really strongly believe that. [00:46:00] It's much harder to make assumptions about people to have, you know, these unfounded stereotypes or generalizations when we know more people up close. That's why we're, this is why I'm doing the, the podcast.
You know, this is why I really believe in the podcast. And I think when we hear people tell their story, um, when we see people close up when they're like. A fully living, breathing, feeling person that we know. Mm-hmm. Um, it's so much harder to kind of. Do this othering, you know? Yes. In our minds.
Denetra Smiley: Yes.
Jess Lin: And it was cheesy.
I felt like it was too cheesy to say, but it's true.
Denetra Smiley: It's true. It's true. Because it's what it's like. Suppose my parents instilled in me when I was little that, oh, Caucasian people are not nice people. You shouldn't talk to them and you know, you should look at them like this and you should look at them like that.
And then when I get an age [00:47:00] where I actually meet a Caucasian person and say. Oh. You know, they're not like what my mom and dad said. Mm-hmm. Or whatever, you know what I'm saying? So it's like if you instill something in a child when they're little, more than likely they're gonna go and follow it until they get to a certain age and it'll be up to them whether or not they make that decision of.
Should I continue to do what my parents say because that's what they taught me? Or should I do what is right, which is love everybody because they're a human being. They're nothing like what I was told. Maybe I need to get to know them a little bit better so I can figure them out. Because I've been friends with all nationalities in my entire life.
I've had some Caucasian best friends, like it's like. I have never been taught that color is a thing.
Jess Lin: Mm-hmm. You
Denetra Smiley: know, I've been just taught that people are, people get to know people for people and not for their [00:48:00] color.
Jess Lin: Thank you so much for listening and being here. Part two of this conversation drops next week, so be sure to follow and hit the bell to get notified when it's out.
In the next episode, we'll dive into what DeAndre did after high school, his story with his partner, his cancer journey, and how Denetra has navigated grief and healing, plus all the incredible work she's doing now, you can learn more about. About her work on her website, smiley Connections llc.org linked in the episode description as well.
She's currently organizing on the road to healing a retreat for parents who have lost a child. If you'd like to support, consider donating through the GoFundMe on her website. This episode was produced and edited by me with advising and executive production support from Ruben, Gnanaruban. [00:49:00] I am Jess Lynn.
See you next week.