Hakim, Part 2 - Black American: Sweetheart & Highest Consciousness

Join us on Cultureful as Hakim Asadi, a Black queer therapist from Upstate New York, shares his journey of growing up queer in a religious community. He opens up about the challenges of navigating faith, family expectations, and shame, and how therapy, self-reflection, and community helped him embrace his authentic self.

This episode explores:

• Growing up queer in church and Black communities
• Overcoming internalized shame and stigma
• Finding authenticity, resilience, and self-love
• How childhood experiences shaped his career as a therapist and public speaker

If you’re interested in queer experiences, faith, identity, and mental health, this conversation is a must-listen.

Connect with Hakim:

• Website: HakimAsadi.com 
• Email: hello@hakimasadi.com.
• Instagram: @hakimasadi_

Keywords: queer identity, LGBTQ+ mental health, Black queer therapist, faith and sexuality, overcoming shame, therapy journey, self-love, intersectional identity, queer stories

Transcript

Transcript generated by AI and may contain errors

[00:00:00] 

Hakim: And it translating to, I'm unlovable because I cannot change this. Right. And so it's, it was a challenge. because here it is. The, the folks that taught me unconditional love, the folks that gave me unconditional love in the back of my mind, I feel like once they find this out, it's no longer unconditional love, right? Based on these teachings and these thoughts and these comments and these jokes and these things that are on tv. 

Jess: You are listening to Cultureful. I'm your host, Jess Lynn. Here's the second half of my conversation with my friend Hakim Asadi. A 30 5-year-old Black American therapist from Upstate New York. In part one, we learned about his full childhood. He shared about his family and their big presence in the community, [00:01:00] the church, his grandparents founded his mother gathering the neighborhood for cookouts and how he was raised to be a leader and not a follower.

In this episode, Hakim reflects on the internal tension between the religion he was raised in and being queer.

He shares moments of memories that challenged him and sowed seeds of shame, as well as the breakthrough moments. Beyond that shame we also learn about how his relationship with his faith and community

have evolved and what he's up to now. I want to note that in our conversation I misspoke and used the word gay, but the correct term Hakim identifies with is queer. It's a vulnerable conversation about identity and coming into your own authenticity. Seeing Hakim believe in himself and recognize his own strengths inspires me to do the same in my own life.

As [00:02:00] always, you can watch the video version on YouTube. Hope you enjoy 

the next thing I wanted to get into was, I wanna be able to like get into your head as a kid, right? And it sounds like you were an inquisitive kid. You were really involved in church. 

 It sounds like you were so curious because you were just really Yeah. Paying so much attention and trying to understand life and connect these dots but at the same time, you knew how to have a good time.

You have friends, you, you know, like bike around and like, you know, hang out in the neighborhood or whatever. 

 what were some of the stories that like you grew up hearing about yourself, um, and like what kind of kid were you becoming, 

Hakim: Oh, that's a interesting question.

Jess: I love, this is my favorite question to ask all my guests. I just feel like knowing some, what someone was like as a kid. Oh my gosh. Like, especially when people are, okay, Doing this podcast is the best because I just get to hang out with people that I think are cool and have story time, [00:03:00] and it's just the bleep and best.

Um, but then also, like, I already think that these, you know, all my guests, I really like all my guests. Um, and on top of that, like to kind of hear what someone was like when they were a kid, just like, oh my gosh, like, I feel like then I just know you so much more and everyone just becomes like extra, even more adorable. 

Hakim: Um, how was I, oh, what stories would I, can I recall as a kid? Hmm. I definitely, oh, this is gonna be interesting. Oh, wow.

Jess: Right.

Hakim: this is interesting. Um, I remember. This exercise, this homework assignment in the sixth grade. And it was like, describe who you are kind of thing. And I remember writing some words, and this might segue into something else, so we'll put a pin here.

'cause I, I do want to get through other stories. Um, I remember writing [00:04:00] sweetheart. 'cause I grew up just hearing like, oh my God, he's the sweetest. Like, he's just, he's adorable. He's such a, such a sweetheart, right? And so I remember writing that and I showed my grandmother like, oh, I finished my homework and we're reviewing it.

And, and she was like, you have to erase that. And I was like, why? Because you don't want to, make people think that you are gay by putting sweetheart

Jess: Mm.

Hakim: Right? And that. Think about how, like I said, my grandmother's words had so much weight that then I think planted the seed of shame in the sixth grade.

And so you have second graders, like you're a leader, right? You're 

Jess: Yeah. 

Hakim: Sixth grade, it's like, oh, there are parts of you that need, we need to hide. Right? That's how I interpreted that. Um, but I was a sweet kid. I, uh, [00:05:00] inquisitive. I also didn't mind speaking my mind.

Um, I'm thinking of stories of how people would tell me that.

I would just say whatever came to my mind,

Jess: Okay.

Hakim: my mind. And that wasn't always great as a kid, if you could imagine talking to adults and not in a disrespectful way, but it would, it would be like, example. Leaving church is like a crowd of people, all adults. So I'm a little kid walking in between people and, you know, navigating the room from the, basically the floor.

And so I remember someone complimenting me, maybe doing like, I was singing something and they pet, like they pat my head 

and my dad told me, don't let anyone pat your head. You're not a dog. And so I responded to the adult, Hey, don't pat my head. I'm not a dog.

Jess: Okay. Okay.

Hakim: [00:06:00] imagine that in other instances.

Jess: Yeah. Just like standing up for yourself and you know, and. 

Hakim: setting boundaries, talking, but it, it, it didn't always lend itself to being like pleasant for adults to hear that from a little human 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Hakim: But I didn't, I didn't mind primarily because my dad was outspoken. My mom was outspoken. Right. And so learning from them, I had no issue with confrontation as a kid and still rings true today.

So I was the kid that would, didn't mind confronting or saying what I had to say. I was the kid who, enjoyed having fun. I paid attention to a lot. And so in church I would mock people like in a very fun like way to them. Right. And so, yeah, I was just like a lovable kid.

Jess: What do you mean? Okay. Like mock them, like impersonate them or

Hakim: Yes. [00:07:00] Impersonate

Jess: oh, That's fun

to see themselves in kid form.

Hakim: Because I literally paid attention to everything.

Jess: Did they, were they entertained by that?

Hakim: Yeah,

Jess:  kid Hakim is starting to come into focus a little bit. 

so back to the pin. That you put in that first story about being a sweetheart, I could see that you were a sweetheart.

I could, I mean, you're still a sweetheart, so I can, it's easy to see. the, the shame that was starting to be put in there for being gay, when you were growing up, how did you start to understand that part of yourself and what was that process like for you?

Hakim: I think I, I don't know if there's a, a clear day of like, you know what, I'm gay or like or, I'm attracted to, you don't there was ever that I grew up where I think it was, it wasn't like a, a secret, right? There [00:08:00] wasn't like a, there wasn't any of that, and so I was always told, you're unique, right?

It was always framed in some other language of like, you're different from the rest. Right. So I, I knew what people meant by that.

Jess: Like from when you were maybe in like elementary school or middle school.

Hakim: It, it's definitely like elementary school, younger, um, like, oh, you're, you're so unique. And it would be connected to like, you have a gift, right? You have, um, a purpose. You're, you have, you know, in in, especially in the eyes of church, it was like, you're gonna be a leader in the church kind of thing.

 that was the, the way of planting seeds of like someone being a leader in the church. My mind, looking back, it's like second grader knowing that I'm a leader. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the church. It can be, but my leadership or my passion or my call to being more in life and having this [00:09:00] desire for life, um, doesn't necessarily have to be within this, it could within, uh, the social work.

World of, you know, being a leader there. And so just to, to say like, you're unique, you're a leader. You're this, you're that. I knew I was different, right? I didn't know what or how I was different. Um, I just knew that I was different. And so I think as time went on, I kind of discovered like, oh, this is how this different air quotes is showing up, right?

am attracted to men or I'm attracted to the same sex. Like, and it, because that was starting to become clearer. The shame started to become clearer because you're also taught in church that that's not okay. Right. In some way, shape or form

Jess: So that was past the limits of their progressiveness.

Hakim: Correct.

Jess: Hmm.[00:10:00] 

Hakim: So, but that's where it was very much a contradiction because. You are saying that you are operating from a level of unconditional love, but here is where I'm seeing conditions.

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Hakim: And so remember the kid that's like, Hmm, this doesn't make sense. was, that was me as a teenager, right? It's like, oh, well, this, I'm conflicted.

I don't know if I can say anything. I don't know if I, you know, and so that, that's where I was groomed in that rejection and that shame and that hiding, right? And so that went on until I was 25 when I was just like, oh yeah, no, I'm, I'm leaving the church. Honestly, I'm actually done. Because this doesn't make any sense.

It's clear that there's an incongruence here as to what we're talking about and then what we're actually living out. And so I'm, I'm okay and I'm, I'm learning, through therapy. This is when I was in grad school. So I had to like go to therapy. I'm learning how to [00:11:00] work with people and their acceptance and, and grief.

And, it didn't make sense for me to put myself in a position to be oppressed by other social engineering thoughts, white supremacist thoughts, um, demonizing thoughts about myself and try to be and promote liberation for others. And so 

Jess: yeah, in that church. So then now you do it in other ways outside the church.

Hakim: for sure, and it, it wasn't, it wasn't my family's church either. I, I mean, it was my family's church that had like the nuances and the, the things that my family allow people to say over the pulpit. 'cause I don't think I've ever heard my immediate family condemn whatever gay people or

people.

I don't think I've ever heard them say that outright, but I think they had to because they were people in positions. I think they had to respond a certain way. Even while they knew about me

Jess: Mm.

Hakim: me coming [00:12:00] out. Does that make sense?

Jess: Kind of so they didn't say anything like, they never said anything openly to condemn, then they wouldn't support and, but they knew you were gay even when, before you came out.

Hakim: Correct.

Jess: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. 

Hakim: So it didn't feel safe, right? So I know you're not, while you're not saying anything to condemn, you're also not saying anything to support. So I don't know where you are, honestly. And so the, my safest survival tactic is to withhold it, to hide it. Um, I'm not sharing, I'm not doing any of that. And then at 18, I went and left and went to some other churches, and then that's where the condemning and the, Bashing in the oppressive nature and language would come out more explicitly. and I think I just grew numb to it honestly. I just thought like I grew numb to it, but also thought like, oh, this I could change.

Jess: [00:13:00] Oh,

Hakim: Yeah.

Jess: feeling like you could change, um, I mean that sounds like maybe that was a, a hard thing to try to think about. What was that like for you? 

Hakim: the, the first word that comes to my mind is the shame, right? So shame is different from guilt where shame is speaking to I am bad

versus guilt says I did something bad,

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Hakim: right? And so if you're growing up in an environment where the definition of love is God, right now I'm feeling like God doesn't love me because this. This thing is a part of my life that I can't change. I wanna change it because I wanna be loved.

Jess: Oh my.

Hakim: Right? And so it's that narrative and it, I mean, so many, so many people can probably relate to that. And it translating to, I'm [00:14:00] unlovable because I cannot change this. Right. And so it's, it was a challenge. It was, it was a challenge because here it is. The, the folks that taught me unconditional love, the folks that gave me unconditional love in the back of my mind, I feel like once they find this out, it's no longer con, it's no longer unconditional love, right? Based on these teachings and these, these thoughts and these comments and these jokes and these things that are on tv.

And so it, it goes beyond just the church that I grew up in. It was society. I think we're in a new age now where that, that tide is changing. But even still in some communities it's still, you know, taboo. It's still not accepted, it's still shamed. Um, and so it was very difficult. It was very difficult. It process that with all of my, [00:15:00] um. I, I would even say intelligence like this doesn't make sense why it's not going away, but I still hope and believe and pray that it does go away because I want to be loved. And so it wasn't until therapy and challenging that and accepting myself that I really got on the bandwagon of authenticity. I'm created in the likeness and image of God.

Whatever definition of God, we wanna talk, we wanna give God, right? If I feel like I'm a part of the universe, I'm a speck of energy that is a part of the larger energy. There's nothing wrong with me,

 So

with that, I, I. Um, I did a lot of work to unlearn a lot of that hatred and that self-loathing and the unworthy and things like that to really hone in on I'm fine, right?

It's other people that got the issue and that, and their limited belief around God.

Jess: [00:16:00] Um, you know, I'm sorry you had to go through that as a kid. you know, just thinking about like, I mean, you're this like super lovable sweetheart kid, and then just having to like hide a part of yourself and to have all of these things that, like, you can't, you don't feel like you can talk about with these, super, important, you know, family members or whatever around you like.

That just sounds like it must have been really, really hard. Um, what did hiding look like?

Is this a funny question? I didn't, this a funny

Hakim: it's a funny question 'cause I immediately went to college and my friends, like, they just, something didn't add up right. Where I would just. It's funny 'cause I could hear my friends saying like, you had a double life. Right? Because

that's what hiding was. [00:17:00] Right? I present one way, but I had a friend or a couple of friends where I would be able to be my most authentic self. That my closest friends who think they're my closest friends, they didn't get a, they didn't get to see that side of me.

Jess: Hmm.

Hakim: They didn't get those jokes, they didn't get those, those stories or those, those woes. Right. So my. College roommate and his girlfriend, we were very, very close, right? But they're like, there's still something missing here. I'm just like, oh, I don't know. I can't tell you. But I would have, um, my partner and I would, you know, we both lived that double life where we felt like we were each other's safety. Right?

Our safe haven. That we could be ourselves and have the jokes, and have the questions, and have the things, but other people would never see that side. And so that hiding was [00:18:00] presenting, um, parts of myself that I felt like were acceptable and palatable and, oh, they're, they'll, they're fine with this.

This is where I feel safe. They, I feel safe with this aspect of me, but this other aspect, which is a large part of me,

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Hakim: I would never, they would never see that.

Jess: So that just sounds really exhausting.

Hakim: Exhausting Jess? Yes.

Jess: yeah. And, so it sounds like, so you, you did date before you like, came out, so,

and you, and you were saying that like. Looking back now, you think a lot of your family, they knew before you told them,

but you at that point didn't know that they knew

Hakim: No.

Jess: you, thought that they thought you were straight.

Hakim: Yeah.

Jess:  a lot of times when you're growing up and then like friends, whatever, people will just.

It's just so common to talk about who are you interested in, who are you interested in? You know, and like who do you have a crush on all this stuff like, and like in your friend circles, when people would ask [00:19:00] you, like, would you pretend to be into someone who is female? Or would just be like, no, I'm not really into anyone right now.

Hakim: No, I wouldn't necessarily lie, there would be people that I was into, uh, women, I would be into them. We would  () () date and it, it would, that would be a thing. and so that's why I don't generally say gay. I usually say queer or same gender loving or something along those lines, because I think everybody's on a, this is just

Jess: Spectrum.

Hakim: Everybody's on a spectrum,

right? And so, um, it would be genuine, right? The connection would be genuine, but it would only go. But so far, 'cause I knew that I don't wanna lead you on into thinking like, this is marriage and kids. 'cause I don't see that far. I don't see that being a thing. but today, yeah, we could date, yeah, we can hang out.

Yeah, we can, you know. But as far as like, I had actually ended it with a girl because that's what she saw. We looked great together. Right? And so when you're younger, that's a, that's a big deal, right? You've gotta look good together. [00:20:00] Um, but we were early twenties and I just knew like that wasn't, I was gonna break her heart.

And I was like, no, I can't, I can't do that.

Jess: Can't keep going if you know that already, right? Mm-hmm. 

After the break, Hakim shares about coming out and what he's up to now.

Jess:  when you started to come out to people, who in your life did you feel the safest with, that you can,  start doing that? Like who were the first people you 

Hakim: Yeah, I had a list. Um, I had a list because it was a matter of safety, right? It was a matter of feeling comfortable enough that if they, [00:21:00] if they did say something that was harmful, I knew they still loved me. At the end of the. I knew and trusted that that was a limited thought. That was a limited belief that it actually had nothing to do with me because I know they still love me. And so I started with my cousins. I started with my cousins, and it was going to therapy and figuring that out and accepting myself. So doing that work for a while before even saying anything to anyone.

Family wise, other friends, I think I was more comfortable with being out and vulnerable and things like that, but like explicitly talking to my family, I had a, a set list and my mother was the first one by accident. Um, an accident because I was in a relationship. I'm in grad school and I'm like having all these aha moments and I'm gonna try to make this story short. I

had all these, 

Jess: [00:22:00] gimme the long version. That's what this is about. I love, I love this bleep. Don't have to.

Hakim: I had, um, I was having all these aha moments and this is the same person that I was dating in on, off and on in undergrad. And probably a little bit before that. Like this was my first like love, like this is, this is the person that I've identified, like we are spending the rest of our lives together. Right? By going into therapy and in, in grad school, we moved in together to save money. 'cause I was a struggling college student. I realized this is a toxic relationship, that this is not healthy. And in my mind, once I realized something isn't healthy, I wanna be healthy, oh, this has to end. So I pulled the trigger and was like, yeah, this isn't working.

Um. So that was like the breakup that broke my heart. It broke his too. And [00:23:00] so I had to move out and I had to move in with my mom. But in moving in with my mom, I was depressed. I wasn't eating. I was going through like think of the most sad breakup song that was me in the rain. Like it was just sad, right?

So my mom had to step up and be a mom.

She had to take care of me. She had to like, make sure I was good, um, you know, staying in school and things like that. and so she had to step up and, and show up, right? It wasn't until like I, it it wasn't that we, we didn't talk about it a lot. And so at a certain point I started. Getting better, right? And so I'm starting the date and I'm still living with her. And so I'm kind of like talking to her about this. 'cause now the elephant's, it's not in the room, right? We, we already know what's going on. And I could see that she was uncomfortable.

Jess: Mm.

Hakim: so I knew that, okay, so now she's tolerating, not accepting.

And so then we had [00:24:00] that conversation. And what I had to realize was, as I'm leaving my comfort zone, my mom has to get to know this new person.

It's not even about a new person, but more so this authentic person, right? Because there were elements of me that I was hiding from her that now she has to essentially grow and me living in my truth and me showing up in my truth. It'll prompt others that really love you to grow or not to. And so I'm happy now that me and my mom have a loving relationship. I talk about. Life. And she's unfazed because there was that process of growing together essentially. 'cause I had to grow into it and she had to grow into it. Um, but she was the first person, again, by accident. My other cousins, was very intentional because again, I knew that they loved me. And so once I told them, everyone had the like, oh yeah, we knew that. We were just waiting on new response [00:25:00] and. I didn't take offense to that. it was like, all right, so what now? And I loved that. Right? But it was very specific, very specific people. My cousins, my sister, and my aunt. And one of my aunts. I never told the oldest aunt. My other godmother, I'm, I'm thinking of them because I got an award at like a lgbtq plus nonprofit organization years later. And that's when they were like, oh, okay. But I never said anything to them.

so once I did that, once I did my family, I, I wasn't coming out to anybody, like sitting anyone down.

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Hakim: I was of the notion that straight people don't have to come out of the

closet. There's no need for me to come out of the closet.

You'll, you'll know and hear my truth when I share it in passing, right? When I go to work and we're talking about [00:26:00] holidays and I say, oh, my partner bought me this gift, or My, my boyfriend bought me this gift. That's when you'll find out. But I'm not gonna sit down and say, Hey everyone, this is what's happening with my life.

I'm not doing that. And so once I told my, the list of cousins and my sister and my

aunt. And they were like, oh, yeah, okay, so what are we eating for dinner? I was

Jess: Yeah. 

Hakim: right, cool. We're good.

Jess: Yeah, because it's just as normal as straight people. Not having to come out. So yeah. Why, why make it like a whole thing that takes energy and work and all this stuff. Right.

and so like in this process of like accidentally coming out to your mom and then your cousins and the other family, did it feel like an unburdening?

Like what was that like for 

Hakim: Absolutely. Oh, it was so freeing

because I didn't need to do all that extra work of hiding parts of myself that I felt weren't safe. And so once I gathered that, oh, I'm still loved, I, and they were proud of me of like who I was [00:27:00] becoming, it was totally fine. I think the challenge really was thinking, what would my grandmother think?

She was, She passed away when I was 14. And so here I am at my big age of 25 and I'm living my life and I'm like, oh, my grandmother wouldn't be proud of me.  My grandmother wouldn't be proud of me because I have this right. And there was always this like, I feel my authentic self. I'm exploring, I'm setting boundaries, I'm setting, I'm developing this healthy sense of self worth and. At the time, I had a therapist, a new therapist, a different therapist I should say, and she said, that's still limiting you in a way of you showing up in the world because you still wanna make your grandmother proud and this isn't changing, right? So what she said was, and it changed my life completely, she said, your grandmother is at the highest level of consciousness.

She's not on this. This, this realm, [00:28:00] right? Not this playing field. And so because she's at the highest level of consciousness, there aren't those limitations of belief.

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Hakim: There aren't the limitations of that's an abomination, that's anything. Right? And so once she said that, it was like, one, I wanna be at that highest frequency, right?

I wanna know like it's all love, it's all unconditional love. And. That liberated me because I always wanted to make my grandmother proud, and so now I know she's proud 'cause she's at the highest level of consciousness.

This gay thing ain't ain't anything

in her mind 

Jess: Yeah. now more and more people, we get that it's not, it's not a thing. that's the way humanity is trending towards understanding it. Right. And and of course, of course if she's not even on this plane anymore, you know, she's gonna be beyond all this stuff.

So, my gosh. Yeah. Just like when you know, when someone says something to you like that and everything, just like clicks.

Hakim: clarity. it, it life [00:29:00] just became a little more clear in my intention and going back to that messaging around me being a leader, not a follower.

That messaging around you're different, you're unique, you are, you have more to offer and you have more to gain in life. All of that became a little bit more clear because I didn't have this, I wanna make my grandmother proud, but I know I will never make her proud because I'm queer. That all went out the window, and so now that ambition is like. On fire, like now I wanna do things, now I wanna be that leader. Now I can see myself being that leader because now I can see it through her eyes. And so then I became really invested in ancestors and like thinking about my grandmother a lot more.

 So I get to live in my truth and my authentic self, whereas the limitations that they had to live by early on,

I get to live that basically breaking the cycle for the generations,

Jess: Hmm.

Hakim: right? So I [00:30:00] don't have to. Limit myself based on whatever society or whatever the church or whatever anybody says, but they had to right in order for them to survive.

That was their way of thinking, and it worked for them until it didn't, until I came onto the scene, it was like, yeah, we're not doing that

anymore. 

Jess: This doesn't work for me.

Hakim: No.

Jess: Mm-hmm. So also, was there like a, oh my gosh, you know, my cousins already knew, like, and they. Love me this whole time just to be like, I'm imagining that to be just like such a, such a reframing of like the whole time that you were just like, oh my gosh, like this is so unlovable.

But actually they knew this whole time. They knew and they loved, and they, you know, treated you the same.

Hakim: Yeah. And I was still. I was still the favorite, right? Uh, in my mind, like I'm still the favorite. Nobody changed anything with them knowing, without them knowing

I, because I thought this, their behavior and their treatment towards [00:31:00] me was based on them not knowing, but here it is.

They knew the entire time and still love me

and still de me as the favorite. You

know, things like that. It was very liberating and I think it brought us closer because the, uh, because of that vulnerability.

It deepened the relationship. It made it more meaningful because I was able to share my truth, but they were also to hold space for me.

Jess: And for you to, for it to have been a thing that you were, like afraid to share for so long, and then to kind of like build up that courage with that, you know, with the therapy, with all this work and to be like, okay, I'm gonna trust you with this.

And for them, that just, that just sounds so big.

know, when you're starting to realize you're attracted to like people from different genders, Has that, like young Hakim have a view of like what you wanted, when you grew up in life in terms of like relationships, in terms of work, you know, things you wanted to accomplish, like what were your aspirations?

Hakim: Honestly, it was that one person. As far as relationships, [00:32:00] it was that one person that I saw in my life. I didn't, because I didn't see it with anyone else. I didn't daydream. Um, it wasn't until the end that I began to daydream of like, what do I actually want? Who do I want in my life? Where do I want to be? And once that ended the first time, 'cause there was a circle pack once it ended the first time, I could see myself living in DC

I could see myself. Being this, uh, executive or, you know, walking through, living in a condo and living and walking through U Street or something like that.

Like, it just, it became, I was able to dream. I was able to have a vision for myself that didn't include this one person. And because it didn't include that one person, it could be whatever I wanted it to be. That wasn't the case before.

Jess:  

Hakim: The case before was like, it was limited. It was like, oh, we'll be in church and you're gonna be doing this and I'm gonna be doing this and it's still gonna be in secret. [00:33:00] And that was very dark. That was very like the, but if you look back, when I look back like the, the vision of that, it didn't really have co color. It wasn't vibrant.

And so then when I was able to dream and have a vision for myself, it. Honestly add a little color to my life.

Jess: And what did you want?

Hakim: So I wanted to be, I knew I was gonna be a therapist at that point, 

Jess: Because this was a grad school, right? You were like in your twenties, early twenties.

Hakim: early twenties. I knew I was gonna be a social worker going into therapy. but I saw myself as, The social worker who was more modern, the social worker who lived in a, in a bigger city, the social worker who enjoyed and was passionate about what I, you know, what I was working on. I saw a professor in the future. I saw, you know, just me living my most authentic life and living in my truth and. While the details, all of the [00:34:00] details weren't there, I knew I had to be in alignment. I knew I had to be in alignment to whatever it was that I wanted to do, who I wanted to become. so that would be day by day, case by case.

And so that would be if I, uh, had an opportunity that came across my desk, do I want to do this? Yes. And so then I would take me somewhere, right? I didn't know that I wanted to be a public speaker until I had an opportunity and loved it.

I was a part of a training team and really enjoyed it and had a lot of fun and was really engaging and sat as a witness on a lot of that and was like, oh, I can see myself doing this.

So then that became part of the vision. Right? And

so it just kind of like a lot of it was saying yes to opportunities and watching it unfold from there.

Jess: Was there something that you started to picture? In terms of like relationships and personal life.

Hakim: I knew I wanted to be in a [00:35:00] relationship I didn't know quite yet around marriage or kids.

I think there was still some limitations on that vision. now that has become a little bit clearer that I do wanna, I wanna share my life with someone.

 I don't know if I want kids now, but. I do see that a part of the story

Jess: Marriage.

Hakim: marriage.

Yep.

Jess:  fast forward to a little bit more than a decade later. You're 35 now, 

right? what is Hakim up to at 35?

Hakim: At 35. The dreams that I had at 25 have come true.

Jess: Wow. I was a professor back in upstate New York for six years before I moved to Atlanta, and I thought that was gonna be like, oh, when I'm well older and retired and you know, I got something to do on the side. But now I started teaching at 26,

Hakim: um, yeah, I started teaching at 26 and. Absolutely loved it. [00:36:00] Realized I loved it. Now I'm like, okay, maybe I can do this on my own. So now I'm like, how do I educate and train on mental health and emotional wellness? So then that became a part of like the public speaking aspect of things. I'm a public speaker now, in addition to practicing therapy and sometimes the other, actually yesterday. I was in the gym and I was just like, I'm really amazed as to how my life unfolded.

Jess: Mm

Hakim: I'm really amazed. It was very intentional, right? I was very clear on what I wanted to do, and I made decisions that were in alignment to the unfolding. But looking back at the last 10 years, it's amazing,

right? The evolutions, the, the people that came and gone, in my life, the friends, the, the family, the. The lessons learned, right? It all aids to who I am and how I show up in the world today, and I don't take any of that for granted because it all played a purpose. And I tell my [00:37:00] clients like some things we have to look at them as they served as a symbol, right? The relationship that that didn't work out, it served as a symbol that brought in the appetite that I wanted. I'm not giving the person too much. I'm not giving the relationship too much, but it served as a, Hey, you want this? Hey, you want somebody to open your door? Hey, you want to experience this laughter and this friendship in a relationship? Hey, you wanna experience traveling,

right? That didn't, the only way that came, or the way that it came, rather, is through this individual and this relationship that didn't work out, but you got exposed to. Something that you really enjoy.

Jess: It's like when life doesn't go to the plan that you think you want, and then sometimes after that everything, just, blows wide open the possibilities, the 

things you can do and the experiences.

Hakim: Yeah. A again, it, it goes back to my grandmother's words in the second grade. You're a [00:38:00] leader. You're not a follower. And so when you look at life from that lens, it changes the game,

right? It changes the opportunities because now I get to create opportunities versus feeling like I'm at the mercy of other opportunities that might come my way. And so being a leader, I feel like I get to create the life that I want, right? And so that includes people that come and go. Creating the life that I want. I get to say, okay, this, this works. This doesn't work. This is in alignment. This isn't in alignment

Jess: Just a lot of agency. All the agency maybe. Wow. 

Hakim: and, and giving that exposure, right? So giving that exposure to those words, but also those opportunities. Much of my. Public speaking skills, much of my being able to work a room, networking, you know, being able to connect to someone came through my experiences at church. And so while it was a place that harmed me [00:39:00] in the way that I had to hide myself or parts of myself, it also gave me tremendous joy.

It also gave me, tremendous skills and learning gifts that I had and, you know, things like that. And so. That exposure and that those words of you have more to do, you are unique, you're different. it gave me something to focus on and it gave me an opportunity to, to dream.

Jess: speaking of church, now you're not in church anymore and, community and that love and healing and all these things that you loved from that time. I guess like now. Outside of church, how are you, building community for yourself and kind of finding those things outside of church.

Hakim: I, I think I'm finding and have found those tenets in yoga,

Jess: Uh.

Hakim: right? And those, that the community that's centered around spirituality and, the yoga community, even the community around like [00:40:00] hiking and being in nature and, you know, meditation, the. Tenets of the church around, we are one, right?

We're all connected. We're all and, and able to have the ability to be immersed in love and show love. I found it in other areas and so that's where it's satisfying to me. And so now I get to create it myself or join someone else.

Jess:  thanks for sharing, Hakim. Thanks for being here. I feel like we kind of. I don't know. This is kind of like a deep experience for me too. I feel very touched by so much of your story and your sharing, so 

Hakim: Thanks. I haven't really thought about much of this in a long time.

Jess: Throwback.

Hakim: Yeah. Yeah.

Jess: Yeah. is there something that you wanna plug or share with the listener for them to connect with you or just anything?

Hakim: Yeah. I love connecting with folks. again, that, that comes from church, right? Grandmother after church greeting [00:41:00] people and talking to people and things like that. So. Feel free to connect via my website, www dot Hakim Asadi, H-A-K-I-M-A-S-A-D i.com. Um, my Instagram at Hakim Asadi, um, or my email hello@Hakimasadi.com. I love talking to people. I love answering questions. I love continuing the conversation because I

think a lot of this happens by way of conversation. A lot of the opportunities, a lot of the healing, a lot of the, the things that we want to achieve are on the other side of our V vulnerabilities, and that is through conversation.

So yeah, absolutely.

Jess: Thank you. and the last question. is there, in addition to, some of the things you've already shared, is there another favorite saying or quote that you grew up with that you wanna share?

Hakim: I say this all the time. My grandmother [00:42:00] says, said, eat the fish and spit out the bone. So whatever it is, whatever conversation, whatever you're watching, whatever it is, if it doesn't resonate with you and who you're becoming, spit out the bone. Take what you need, right? Take the nutrients. Take whatever you need for your life. Eat the fish and spit out the bone. I say it all the time in every presentation.

Jess: I love that. I love that. Thank you

Hakim: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Jess: heart.

 Thanks so much for listening. You'll find ways to connect with Hakim in the show notes. My next guest is Joanne, a Chinese American from Oswego, New York. We talk about her early fascination with reptiles, how she became a professor at Spelman College, a black woman's college, the twists and turns of her career and her evolving relationship with her [00:43:00] cultural identity.

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If you enjoyed this episode, you can support this homegrown indie podcast by leaving me a comment or donating via the link in the description, your support, helps keep these stories of representation coming. Stories that don't reduce our experiences to stereotypes, but bring nuance and our everyday narratives to the forefront. This episode was produced and edited by me with advising and executive production support from Ruben Gnanaruban. I'm Jess Lin. See you soon.