Jin, Part 2: A Blind Date in Chinatown and 150 Pounds of Rice

In Part Two of our journey with Jin, we move from the harrowing escape routes of the 1970s to the vibrant, complex grid of 1980s San Francisco Chinatown. This episode explores the different timelines of the Chinese diaspora—where four-generation American families collided with a new wave of Southeast Asian refugees. We trace a crazy meet-cute that involves a blind date gone wrong, the high costs of long-distance longing, and a relentless pursuit involving 150-pound bags of rice.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• Chinatown’s Linguistic Map: Why 1980s San Francisco was a complex grid of mutually unintelligible dialects, from the Toisanese "Old Guard" to the prestige of Hong Kong Cantonese.
• The "Linguistic Chameleon": The double-silence faced by Teochew, Hokkien, and Hakka refugees who had to mask their origins to find work in garment factories and kitchens.
• The Logic of Lineage: A deep dive into the Confucian family structure and the strategic practice of child transfer (ti) to preserve family altars.
• The Gaokao Ceiling: How China’s high-stakes national exam served as a 5% gateway to social mobility—and how missing the cutoff changed the trajectory of Jin's mother’s life.

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Explore the Cultureful Heritage Collections: 

✊🏾Black Voices Collection – Celebrating leadership, advocacy, and lived experience. The Collection on Spotify and YouTube 

🏮Chinese and Taiwanese Voices Collection – Diversity of the diaspora and relating to family and identity. The Collection on Spotify and YouTube

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Support Our Mission: Become a Season 3 Supporter If you believe in our vision of a connected global neighborhood where no one is an outsider, please consider becoming a Season 3 Supporter: https://ko-fi.com/cultureful

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Watch on YouTube: Here

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Historical References & Context

To maintain the integrity of our storytelling, we utilize peer-reviewed historical data and archival records. Key context for this episode includes:

• The Siyi Network: Documentation on the Toisanese (Taishanese) pioneers and their century-long influence on San Francisco property and commerce.
• Post-1965 Immigration: Records on the shift of Cantonese as the "prestige language" of business and media following the Hong Kong wave.
• The Gaokao System: Historical data on the 1977 reinstatement of the National College Entrance Exam and its role in defining the professional class.
• Confucian Hierarchy: Research on Filial Piety and the roles of the Da Xi Fu (Eldest Daughter-in-Law) within Teochew merchant family structures.

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Episode Credits

Founding Supporter Shout-outs: Special thanks this week to the Zhou Family, HS, and James and Jeannie Lin—the very first people to join our mission!

Host, Producer, Research & Sound Design: Jess Lin

Advising and Production Support: Ruben Gnanaruban

Transcript

Jin: 0:00

and also just being alone completely, I think that must have been really hard and I just realized I've never thought about it, but that is really rough.

Jess: 0:12

You are listening to Cultureful Where strangers become neighbors. I'm your host Jess Lin It's February in the us. We are honoring Black History Month and this year, February 17th, marks the start of the lunar new Year To celebrate the Cultureful way, I've curated two special playlist collections for you, a Black Voices set, and a Chinese and Taiwanese voices set featuring the incredible guests we've had on the show. My goal is to help us move beyond textbook history. in simple traditions like red envelopes toward a richer up close look at the lived experience within these communities. You can find the links to these playlist collections on Spotify and YouTube right in the show notes. Today's episode is part two of our three part journey with Jin In part one, we traced her family's roots from the cultural revolution in China to the harrowing escape of post-war Vietnam ending with her father's escape as a refugee in Malaysia. In this chapter, the story moves into the 1980s landing in the heart of San Francisco's Chinatown. It was a time and place where many different Chinese groups were converging. A vibrant, loud mix of people navigating mutually unintelligible dialects, all trying to find their footing in the same few city blocks. Jin shares how her parents finally arrived on American soil. The meet-cute and a relentless pursuit involving 150 pounds of rice. It's a story of chance, love, and big life changing choices that take you from San Francisco's Chinatown to a small town in Illinois. As always, you can watch the video version of this conversation on YouTube. Here is part two of my conversation with Jin

Jin: 2:17

So we were talking about

Jess: 2:19

How they both came to the states and then the meet cute.

Jin: 2:22

Yeah, so my dad, he was a refugee, so I think in the refugee camp you can, you can give your preferences on where you wanna end up. And he said the us so two years later he got a spot, two spots for him and my eighth uncle. So they came in 79. for my mom, really crazy story. She has an oldest brother who was also a Vietnamese refugee. And this is because as you remember, my grandpa did business in Vietnam and a very common thing for like southern Chinese at the time was to like I don't know if give is the right word, but it really feels like it. They kind of just give their eldest son or like one of their older kids to like a family member in Vietnam. if they have family there. I heard this was kind of common. I don't know if this is true, and I think it was because like the uncle and aunt didn't have kids. They would've loved to have a kid and then so he just kind of did that. but also that oldest kid is meant to help bring back money, do business there for the family in China.

Jess: 3:23

for centuries and well into the mid 19 hundreds, the structure of the Chinese family was governed by Confucianism, A system where the survival of the collective outweighed the desires of the individual. Under this system, a household without a male heir was considered a spiritual and social failure. The decision to transfer a child, a practice called TI was not a private matter between a mother and a father. It was an executive mandate handed down by the clan patriarch or the family elders. They functioned as the architects of the lineage moving children like assets to repair broken branches of the family tree. the boys were often transferred between the ages of three and seven. Young enough to be molded by a new household's expectations, but old enough to have survived the high infant mortality of the era. This was a strategic necessity because property, the family name and the ancestral altars could only pass through the male line. A daughter would eventually marry out into another family, but a son stayed to guard the lineage. By shifting a boy to a childless uncle, the elders guaranteed that the altar fires would never go cold, and the family's wealth would never leave the bloodline.

Jin: 4:50

So that is what happens. My uncle like did business Chinese herb business in Vietnam, and during the war he escaped. I do not know his escape story, but it was probably equally harrowing. so oldest uncle is a refugee. I actually don't know the exact details, but she came over because of my uncle, basically. And she lived at his place in San Francisco for a while working at his apothecary, so she was basically there. with my uncle and she had found a job at this wholesale, Chinese goods store.

Jess: 5:24

And how old was she at the time when she came

Jin: 5:27

she I think she came over when she was 23. So that's 83. She and my dad met maybe yeah, so 22, 23, and then to catch my dad's story up to that point. So my dad after arriving in 79, he ended up in Peoria, Illinois. Very random place sponsored there by a Catholic church. worked at the first Chinese restaurant in the city in Peoria, Illinois. It's not a city, I guess it's a town. It's like the heart of Illinois. the owner of the restaurant, her name was Pearl, really loved my dad, thought he was the most hardworking dude, admired him. So she decided to teach him how to like, start his own, she was just like, I will teach you how to open a restaurant. You are going to be my protege. And at that time I think he was a dishwasher.

Jess: 6:14

and this lady also was Chinese

Jin: 6:16

she was also Chinese. Pearl Chan was her name. She's like the sweetest. I met her when she was in her nineties and she was so sweet. so basically he helped her do a lot of things including source, just do supply chain for the restaurant and the supply chain work. brought him all the way to California and so he took this. Big Business trip to California. Yeah.

Jess: 6:39

Uhhuh.

Jin: 6:40

And um, he multitask of course. And I think like, I think he was 34 something at the time. his friend had set up a blind date for him. Do you remember the guy who like owned the boat? He is in San Francisco. And he told my dad, there's this young lady here, I think you should meet if you're already here on business. I'm gonna set you on, on a date with her. So

Jess: 7:05

And how did this friend know your mom?

Jin: 7:08

he does not know my mom, so this is why it's like crazy. Me cute. So basically my dad goes on this blind date. It was not my mom. he was not into her. So

Jess: 7:18

okay. Okay. This is a different lady. The Different lady.

Jin: 7:20

lady. Um, and so he and my, I'll just call him uncle, the guy who owned the boat, I'll call him boat uncle. And he and boat uncle are like, okay, well that didn't work out. And the boat uncle's like, well, if you're looking for, goods for the restaurant, here's like a good place you can go. And it's this warehouse that my mom worked at. He does not know my mom. I

Jess: 7:42

Cute. Uh.

Jin: 7:43

And so like, they walk in and they're like, I'm looking for like rice, X, Y, Z, blah, blah, blah. And the owner is just like, oh, you speak Teochew? Which is like, the dialect my family speaks. He was like, well, I have a clerk who speaks. I'll have her show you around. like, she showed them around. My dad's like, she cute. So like, um, so as she's like showing stuff around, he's just like, you know, he's checking her out and stuff. And then after he leaves and goes back to Illinois. He starts calling the warehouse every day asking for the price of the goods just to talk to her. And like my mom's just like, why is this guy calling? He's weird. And he would like try to like, you know, do stuff. And then she basically, my mom was just like talking to the owner. She's like, I don't know about this. And then the owner He gets on the phone and then he's just like, if you wanna keep talking, if you wanna get her number or anything, you need to buy something. So,

Jess: 8:43

The owner wasn't just like, you can't, he was like, you can, but you have to buy something.

Jin: 8:48

so,

Jess: 8:48

God.

Jin: 8:49

so my dad and his friend, my dad calls his friend is like, I do not have the funds, but can you help me here? Um, this is really important. So like, him and my friend pulled together money 'cause it's a, you have to buy in bulk there, you have to buy at least like a hundred of things. So they bought 150 pound bags of rice. From this place, and like that's how my dad got my mom's number is like by making this huge purchase at this like wholesale

Jess: 9:17

But the, oh, but her boss was like pawning her out, like,

Jin: 9:21

Yes. I don't even know if he got your number, but it was like, I think like my dad was allowed to call more often or something so he could talk to my mom, but my mom was just like, no man, I don't know you.

Jess: 9:30

you. live in Illinois? I met you once at work.

Jin: 9:35

right. So yeah, I, in retrospect, I mean, not in retrospect, it's like it is weird unless you like that person no matter what. And I think at that time my mom's just like, this is weird. but my dad, after a while. I think my dad was like, oh, it's probably, I don't know if it's happening or not, but I really like her. she's pretty, she speaks my language. He has held out for a very long time. He's like in his mid thirties and then I think he goes for a while without talking to her because, she thinks it's weird. But then, boat Uncle is a contractor who like helps people, build things. And I think my uncle was getting either his apartment or probably his store, some sort of remodeling. This happened and Boat uncle happened to be working at that site. And so, he like saw my mom walk by and so he asked my uncle, he was like, who is that lady? And my uncle's like, oh, that's my younger sister. And then. This boat uncle like immediately calls my dad and is like, I found her. And then my dad was like, I need her number. Okay. So this must've been how he got her number. And so like boat uncle asked my uncle for it, my uncle, because they have this Vietnamese refugee, like connection. And I think they might've known each other by, by some sort of network there. I think he was like, okay, I guess you're okay. So I'll give you the number. and I think he's like monitoring. So my dad calls my mom and like starts talking to her every day. He's, he racks up so many, I think over the course of this from me, cute to when they get married, he has racked up like thousands of dollars, which back then is a ton of money in like in long distance phone bills. And I think because of this connection through the older brother, my mom is a little more receptive and so my dad calls her every day. Like, you know, jokes around with her. So I think like they have a good rapport going.

Jess: 11:30

they had the calligraphy in common.

Jin: 11:33

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 11:34

do you know like what else they bonded over over the phone when they're getting to know each other?

Jin: 11:40

I think they bonded over having large families, like having so many siblings. And then also their, the fact that they came from a very similar place in China and they had the same like home language, Teochew dialect, the fact that they could speak to each other, and that was probably extremely special given that a lot of immigrants to like San Francisco, Chinatown were canto. I think there were some Teochew people. Yeah.

Jess: 12:04

To an outsider in the 1980s. San Francisco's Chinatown sounded like a single unified neighborhood. In reality, it was a map of distinct borders. While the outside world heard Chinese, the streets were a complex grid of distinct languages that were often not mutually intelligible. The old guard were the Toisanese. pioneers from the city, Siyi villages who had held the neighborhood's property in power for a century By the seventies, their influence was being layered over by a massive wave from Hong Kong speaking Cantonese. The prestige language of business media and the new urban elite Mandarin was merely in the background then associated with scholars or families from Taiwan who lived in the suburbs rather than the tenements. Meanwhile, in the kitchens and garment factories, a double silence existed for the newest arrivals, the refugees from Southeast Asia. These were Teochew, Hokkien, and Hakka speakers for these twice migrants surviving. Chinatown required becoming a linguistic chameleon. A chu speaker could sit at a table with a Cantonese speaker and understand almost nothing To secure a seat at a sewing machine or shift in a kitchen, They often had to hide their own language, masking their origins to adopt the dominant Cantonese dialect In this hierarchy, if you couldn't code switch, you weren't just an immigrant in America, you remained an outsider in your own community. Have you noticed any things that are like distinctive about Teochew culture?

Jin: 13:53

So people from Teochew are known to be entrepreneurs. So, I touched on this with my grandpa, but because it was not a resource rich area, like a lot of people had to leave to find business and then send remittance back home basically to their families. So that's why my mom's brother left and her dad like, would come in and out and that's why my dad's family, my grandfather on my dad's side, like also did that. I think they bonded over that. and I think they just, honestly, I think it was like my dad sharing his story and my mom getting to like. Understand that side of him because like you said, when you look at somebody, like you don't know their story, but then like being able to dig deep like that is probably extremely special. It's not probably, it's like extremely special. I think it was a very vulnerable part of my dad that like she got to see, but yeah,

Jess: 14:40

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they logged hundreds of hours over the phone, so many hours and, it's cool that it wasn't all like small talk, um, that they got to bond over that and

Jin: 14:53

Yeah. With a lot of humor too. I think he would like, you know, tell her poems and like sing songs, whatever he could do. Yeah.

Jess: 15:00

he was creative with his medium.

Jin: 15:03

Yes, he was, he did what he could.

Jess: 15:07

This is funny because you know, Ruben and I started dating during the pandemic and Yeah, we were like video chatting for the first two weeks and we would have to be creative too of like, oh, let's like watch a movie together. But virtually or like, he would play me a song or different things 'cause like different you are like trying to figure out how to date virtually and you know, it sounds like your dad was like trying to figure out how to win her heart over the phone. Wow. He pulled out all the stops.

Jin: 15:35

Yeah. And then one day I think he was being strategic about it, but he didn't call her one day and then she called him back and was like, where are you? And then he was like, I got her. So

Jess: 15:49

Made her so used to talking to him.

Jin: 15:53

so that was how like, he was like, okay, this is it. So he goes out and like asks her to marry him, you know, stuff like that. So I think during the course of that, I think they like went out dating like maybe one or two times, but yeah. So that's how they met and got married

Jess: 16:09

Like 95% of their relationship was over the phone

Jin: 16:14

right.

Jess: 16:14

till that point.

Jin: 16:15

Yeah. But like, I think

Jess: 16:18

video chat. It wasn't even video chat times.

Jin: 16:20

not even video, it was just the sound of their voices and, you know, storytelling.

Jess: 16:26

It's like, well, almost like love is blind

Jin: 16:29

It is Love is blind pretty much. Yeah. With he saw her first. Yeah.

Jess: 16:33

The Netflix show Love Is Blind, is a social experiment where participants date without ever seeing each other. By talking through a wall in isolated pods, they see if they can build a connection based entirely on voice. this setup can increase a sense of accelerated intimacy that is then tested when they finally meet and face real world challenges together.

Jin: 17:01

So I mean, for her, it might have been somewhat, I guess, but she said she was moved by his story and like what he had done with his life and he of course just thought she was a cutie. So that is,

Jess: 17:15

did he like other things about her? I'm sure there's a

Jin: 17:17

sure. Yeah. They connected over well. I mean, she said her world at the time was very small. she was working at this apothecary, she was actually taking a few college classes at City College, in San Francisco trying to be an accountant. So in her brain, what she told me is that she didn't really have much going on for her at the time, and my dad just seemed really. He seemed impressive, but she just said her world was so small, so she was just like, well, I'm so old. I need to get married. So that's like what she thought.

Jess: 17:49

Yeah. And what's their age gap?

Jin: 17:52

seven years, They got married a year before I was born, so that was 86. So they were dating like either a year or two before that. when she came to the state, she was 23 So she met him probably when she was 25 or 24. so she was probably like, I'm 25 or 24. I am old. I am a spinster. So.

Jess: 18:12

I must marry him

Jin: 18:13

Yeah, I must marry him. This is my chance. Oh, story there is she asked him to promise that they would come back to the Bay Area, which as you see, never happened, but

Jess: 18:24

well, it hasn't happened yet.

Jin: 18:26

hasn't happened yet. Yes. she still does really wanna move out here, but the prices, you know, are prohibitive. We'll see how it goes.

Jess: 18:35

But then she moved over there, married him. Wait, where did they get married

Jin: 18:40

They got married in Peoria, Illinois.

Jess: 18:42

and did she have any of her side? Her relatives with her.

Jin: 18:45

No, she was completely isolated. Married into this ginormous family.

Jess: 18:50

Traditional Chinese family life was governed by a rigid hierarchy where status was synonymous with duty. at the center were two roles defined by immense pressure. The eldest son and the eldest daughter-in-law. Da xi fu This structure was rooted in filial piety, the moral obligation to provide for obey and honor one's parents. Above all else, as the primary heir, the eldest son often carried the weight of the lineage. He was responsible for his parents' survival and often acted as a little father to his siblings, sacrificing his own ambitions to fund theirs. The eldest daughter-in-law occupied the most demanding role. Upon marriage, she left her own family lineage to join her husbands where she was expected to obey her husband and his parents. her fate was often determined by how she was treated by her new family as an outsider integrated into the home, her daily life depended on the temperament of her in-laws. as the Da Xi Fu she was the household's Chief operating Officer, managing daily labor and caring for the elderly in Teochew merchant families. This often extended into the family business. She became the silent engine balancing shop or restaurant labor with domestic duties. Of course, these traditions, exist on a spectrum. While this hierarchy provided the cultural blueprint for decades, the level of adherence varied between households in modern generations. These roles have faded as urbanization and financial independence redefined the family, Yet for many in the 1980s immigrant generation, these unspoken rules formed the invisible architecture of their daily lives. A system where personal identity was often secondary to the collective.

Jin: 20:56

So his family was all like kind of there at the time too.

Jess: 20:59

Wow. Were there a lot of expectations for her as the oldest son's wife?

Jin: 21:05

I think on one hand, because my dad was the father figure, she was there was that right? they would to some degree respect her. I think on the other hand, like my dad is the oldest son, the beloved son of his mother, so there, then there's a lot to live up to as well. So I think as the wife, so I think it's like a lot of tension in that sense. and also just being alone completely, I think that must have been really hard and I just realized I've never thought about it, but that is really rough.

Jess: 21:35

Yeah.

Jin: 21:36

Yeah.

Jess: 21:37

After the break, her dad's sense of humor and her mom's drive for an education. it's Jess. As I mentioned I've put together two collections on Spotify and YouTube to honor the heritage. We're celebrating this month. The Black Voices Collection and the Chinese and Taiwanese Voices Collection. each of these, helps us see past the monolith to the incredible diversity within each group. In the Black Voices set, we see our neighbor's leadership in the military, the church, and in advocacy. Through the full stories of guests like Denetra and Tonisha We explore the challenges faced, but also the joy community and the traditions intentionally created and passed down. In the Chinese and Taiwanese set, You'll find voices like Sheng on what it looks like to defy the model minority script to pursue his passions. We also hear from Steve on his love life and reflections on how identity shows up in romance The collection is a look at belonging, finding yourself and the evolving relationships we have with our families and our own identities. the kind of stories that change how you see your neighbors and all their complexity and beautiful humanity. You can find the links to both of these full collections in the show notes. Happy Black History Month and happy lunar New Year with love. Jess. And now back to Jin's story. your mom marrying the oldest son in a family that sounds like they really care about birth order. how did she feel about moving? Over there to get, I know you said she felt like she had to get married 'cause she was getting a little bit old for the marriage market.

Jin: 23:28

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 23:30

do you know how she felt about it, about moving over there to get married and to be surrounded just by his family?

Jin: 23:36

I don't think she wanted it. Well, I don't know if wanted it is the right word, I think. I think she was terrified, because I. Though, to be fair in the Bay, she only knew my uncle as well. And I think my dad was just vetted by my uncle before they got married. So I think that gave her some peace of mind, maybe, but it probably, at the time, it sounded like it didn't make much of a difference whether she was in San Francisco or in Peoria, with the exception of just having her uncle around who or my uncle around who she like adored. But there were circumstances that made it difficult to stay there too, in terms of like getting along with the family, his nuclear family. So it just seemed like between a rock and a hard place, it was the better thing to do.

Jess: 24:25

Hmm. Like that was her choice and she

Jin: 24:28

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 24:30

where was the rest of her family? still in China

Jin: 24:33

Yeah, they were all over. I think they were in China at the time. I, at some point she had family immigrate to Canada and her younger sister, the sixth one that she was really close to ended up coming to the States as well at some point, but not yet. at that time it was just, seemed like it was just her and my oldest uncle.

Jess: 24:51

do you know when your parents got married? What were some of their aspirations for their new life together?

Jin: 24:57

Yeah. You mean collectively their aspirations? I can give their collective ones and their

Jess: 25:02

collectively? Yes.

Jin: 25:03

Okay. at that point in his life, my dad had checked off a lot of he felt his family obligations looked like he had gotten his family to the states. they were situated and I think for him it was like, make more, provide more. and I think that was the same that he would do for his own nuclear family. And I think collectively, one of the things my mom had asked him to agree on was eventually to move back to the Bay. So that was their collective aspiration. my mom's personal aspiration was to continue getting her education as an accountant. and I don't know what else, I mean, I guess at some point they wanted a kid, but like, I came a lot earlier than they expected, so, yeah, I don't think they wanted to have kids for at least another two years, and then like, less than a year later they were pregnant. So, Oops.

Jess: 25:55

Oops. Uhhuh.

Jin: 25:56

But, um, and I think that really did affect how they were able to play out their aspirations. But, you know, life,

Jess: 26:04

yeah,

Jin: 26:04

they didn't end up in the bay. yet. And my mom actually did not get to go to school anymore. I think my mom wanted an education. Mm-hmm.

Jess: 26:13

hmm. anything else you wanna talk about about this part of your parents' stories?

Jin: 26:18

I felt like there was one point where I don't know if I gave it enough. Maybe talking about my dad's, like what he's like.

Jess: 26:24

Okay.

Jin: 26:25

He's like, he enjoys a good laugh.

Jess: 26:28

what kind of stuff does he find Funny?

Jin: 26:30

so there's this Singaporean duo, they're called Wong Canto, but they do a lot of like language based humor between Mandarin, Cantonese, sometimes English, and then surprisingly like Teochew our family's language. And so they, they exploit all these like strange, differences between the three language and within each language. So like, he likes that kind of humor. My dad really loves languages. I think he just like had to pick up so many throughout his life that, it's something he zones in on.

Jess: 27:02

What all Does he speak

Jin: 27:04

he speaks Teochew, Mandarin, and Cantonese pretty well. Vietnamese of course. Yeah. English. Malaysian. Some enough to do business, so like the rest are enough to do business. He learned French when he was in Vietnam 'cause that's just what people did. And then he also, I do not know how or why, but he knows Indonesian, I think he said like some of the business people in Malaysia that he bought chickens from were Indonesian. So he like learned Indonesian or Bahasa I think is the actual

Jess: 27:31

Yeah. Bahasa.

Jin: 27:32

But

Jess: 27:33

so how did he learn Cantonese?

Jin: 27:35

I think a lot of business people in a lot of Southern Chinese speak canto. So like if you don't speak Teochew, like the wider Lang, more widely spoken language is probably canto.

Jess: 27:45

did he learn Mandarin?

Jin: 27:46

I think he just picked it up from like other Chinese people. I feel like a lot of his stuff was picked up.

Jess: 27:52

so what language did he go? He went to school in French

Jin: 27:55

He went to school in Vietnamese and French.

Jess: 27:57

and then he spoke at home.

Jin: 28:00

Mm-hmm. He spoke with family Yeah.

Jess: 28:04

And then Cantonese was, was like just around with like the Chinese communities in Vietnam when he was growing up. And then he picked up Mandarin later when he was here in the us.

Jin: 28:16

I think so.

Jess: 28:17

Then the Malaysian when he was

Jin: 28:20

And in in Bahasa. Mm-hmm. and

Jess: 28:22

was in, yeah.

Jin: 28:23

English here. Yeah. English was over television here.

Jess: 28:27

There's a lot going on in his brain.

Jin: 28:29

Yeah. So he likes that kind of stuff. Um, but he also likes just silly, like all sorts of slapstick, silly body humor, you know, all that stuff. I think his favorite pastime when we were growing up was like making my mom laugh and he's like, I the person who's keeping her young, you know, stuff like that. Like, so silly.

Jess: 28:48

That's cute.

Jin: 28:49

Yeah.

Jess: 28:49

dad jokes

Jin: 28:50

Oh, absolutely.

Jess: 28:52

what's his style when he tells the jokes?

Jin: 28:54

I think it's shifted since I've like grown up. Um, but when I was a kid he would like do these hor, I don't know if it's horrible. I thought it was horrible when I was a kid, but he would be like, touch my elbow and then he'd like, you know, bump my head, you know, stuff like that. I hated that. And then he would like come up behind me while we were walking in the grocery store and just like stick his knee into my knee and then I would just like buckle and then he would think it was hilarious.

Jess: 29:16

This is like big brother humor.

Jin: 29:18

Yeah. He did a lot of Big brother humor.

Jess: 29:20

I mean, 'cause he was a big brother of a lot of people. He

Jin: 29:23

so.

Jess: 29:23

he didn't grow

Jin: 29:24

Yeah. I thought it was awful, but like, that's what he loved doing. And then he would tell me, you know, these like language jokes, which I thought were pretty great. So I like those. and as we've gotten older, it's more about those things or like situational humor. I can't even remember.

Jess: 29:40

I guess I was just thinking like, but most of his jokes are his own or, okay, this is me projecting.'cause my dad He really only like copies other people's jokes and recycles them. But it sounds like your dad, like the language jokes, does he like make them or is he just recycling them?

Jin: 29:54

think it's a bit of both. If I'm asking him a question about language and then he like, can make something on the spot, he will. And then sometimes, he can recycle them, So I think like when we were younger and he actually would watch, I think we watch like these CDs of them then. Like if it was fresh on his brain, he would, you know, throw it out at us.

Jess: 30:13

Uhhuh. Nice.

Jin: 30:16

I forgot how emotional these stories were.

Jess: 30:19

Yeah. Because you grew up with them, right?

Jin: 30:22

yeah, I don't know. As a kid, I feel like I was fascinated 'cause my dad would tell us once in a while and then like, I was so fascinated. I spent a lot of my school assignments, just like if I had the opportunity to research the Vietnam War and like personal stories, I would actually try to do that. And stories of China during the cultural revolution as well. So like, I felt like I was constantly trying to understand my parents more because they were in some ways very forthcoming compared to, I know like other parent-child relationships, but in other ways, like, it just felt like it was only, it was such a tiny slice of their lives that they were like able to verbalize to us.'cause like we didn't understand back then that it was just really rough. I don't know, not rough, but it was just like, you know, hard to grasp as a kid.

Jess: 31:10

Yeah. They, I mean, they both grew up experiencing these very intense historical events.

Jin: 31:18

Right. So intense.

Jess: 31:20

Intense. Yeah. And then they found each other and it sounds like they've bonded over some of that.

Jin: 31:25

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 31:26

Yeah. It's just, oh, man. yeah, it, it sounds like they both. Went through and experienced and saw a lot of things

Jin: 31:36

Yeah, I think so. They have, I feel like their lives could be books

Jess: 31:40

Yeah. Before we wrap up about your parents', youth, I wanna go back and ask a follow-up question about your mom and how she came to the us. your mom has so many siblings, but not everyone came. Right. And it sounds like your mom was one of the early ones to come in her family.

Jin: 31:59

Yeah.

Jess: 31:59

Like how did she decide, or who decided that?

Jin: 32:02

She decided that, so the reason why she came was because she didn't get into college in China. I think at the time, like leading up to the point of college. I don't think her education was like very thorough considering the situation. and so it was Gaokao, I think it was a Gaokao system, but it, I think it was based on a test, and I think she was like not, she did not make the cutoff. it was kind of close, I guess, but it, it didn't matter.

Jess: 32:32

The Gaokao is China's National College entrance exam, a standardized test that serves as the primary gateway to higher education and social mobility. since its establishment in 1952, it has been the high stakes gateway to the professional class. In 1966, the exam was suspended for a decade during the cultural revolution, an era where academic merit was replaced by political loyalty when it was finally reinstated in 1977, over 5 million people ranging from teenagers to adults in their thirties rushed to take it. Only 5% were admitted. In the 1980s, the exam was a strict three day marathon. Typically, in July, students were tested on six or seven subjects, depending on whether they chose a science or humanities track. It was an all or nothing system with no private colleges failing the cutoff usually meant a permanent state assignment to manual labor or factory work. While you could technically repeat the test, There were no private cram schools. You had to self-study while your family bore the cost of an extra year without your wages Today the exam remains a test of endurance over two to four days. While there are now more paths for those who don't hit the top, scores missing, the score of a top tier university still creates a ceiling on career growth. the pressure has created a massive repeater industry. Where students spend a full year in dedicated centers desperate for a second chance to change their professional trajectory.

Jin: 34:24

And so she was devastated because I think she was considered pretty bright to begin with. so because of that, I think she was just looking for, an option. and I think she still cared about education rather than like marrying, which could have been an option. So she, that's why she ended up in the States.

Jess: 34:41

So she wanted to come here for school,

Jin: 34:43

Yeah. Now being in her shoes, like as we're talking, it's crazy. There's a lot.

Jess: 34:50

Yeah. Like does, doing this interview and kind of thinking more in depth of their backgrounds and their journeys, like Yeah. How does it feel to be doing this interview and reflecting about all this stuff?

Jin: 35:06

It's, I really appreciate that I've gotten to, like, connect a lot of these dots that have never been connected because all of these stories are given to me by my parents in spurts of like, when they feel like sharing. So like it's all accumulated over however many years I am. Um, but I think, yeah, it's, it's actually really crazy to think about how all of that adds up to, you know, where my parents are now, um, or where they were even up to the point of getting married before having me. That's just, it makes me appreciate. My mom especially a lot more, I feel like for my dad, it's very easy. It's very clear. Like the amount of appreciation that, like all of what he's done has garnered and I feel like it's crazy 'cause my mom has accomplished so much already, like even beyond that, the stories I've told you. But like I've never actually appreciated how difficult it must have been as a female especially. So, yeah.

Jess: 36:07

Yeah, because I mean, I, you know, like hearing their immigration stories Yeah, it sounds like your dad. I, I can hear it when you, when you talk about him, it sounds like, you know, he did a lot of things that, I mean, were very impressive,

Jin: 36:23

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 36:24

like trying to figure out how to keep his family alive and move them over here as like the oldest child and the oldest son. And that's like a lot of responsibility and all this stuff that's like, it is like very quote unquote, like obvious accomplishments or whatever.

Jin: 36:38

Right. Right. It's

Jess: 36:39

Yeah. But then like with your mom, you know, and I'm just thinking like the whole time I'm just like, wow. Like, for her to kind of grow up in a household that, you know, was targeted during the cultural revolution and for her education, sounds like she always wanted that. And then to have like this major barrier in her education and then to have like the courage to come. As like a very young person,

Jin: 37:06

Mm-hmm.

Jess: 37:07

you know, to live with your brother and your brother's family that like, you didn't grow up with that brother

Jin: 37:13

Right.

Jess: 37:13

and like, as a female all away in San Francisco, and that's a lot. And then, and then to marry this guy who's courting you in a small town in Illinois, you know, and then go there. It's like, that's a lot. That's a, that's like, in my mind, that's a real lot.

Jin: 37:33

it is a lot. There's so much. Yeah, I feel like it's very, it's very underappreciated. Like just saying it out loud, like you don't really get it until you, like, I feel like go through little bits of it as an adult and then you realize like how isolating so many of these situations are.

Jess: 37:53

Yeah. I think also, like I asked that question about, you know, what was it like for her to be married to, the oldest son and that kind of family dynamic because I'm Taiwan and culturally, you know, a lot of like Chinese culture stuff, it's so hierarchical. there are so many expectations based on birth order and it's even more intense usually in a big household and even more intense if you're the oldest male. I guess I, I understand some of that and so I was already kind of anticipating like, ooh, that is a situation she, she ended up in. I can imagine that there would be a lot to navigate. To say the least.

Jin: 38:38

Yeah.

Jess: 38:39

Thanks for sharing.

Jin: 38:40

Yeah. Thanks for asking. Good questions as always.

Jess: 38:43

Thanks friend. Love you friend.

Jin: 38:45

Hug. you too. Thanks for taking the time on this and you know, doing this professional, get up with me. This is a really cool experience. Okay, I'm glad.

Jess: 38:57

that was part two of my conversation with JIn in part three. The final part of our conversation, Jin herself, comes on the scene. We'll look at her youth as a restaurant kid. Her deep dive into the world of competitive ping pong and the wisdom she gathered along the way, We'll get a glimpse inside her family culture. It's humor, it's joy and the unique friendship Jin has built with her parents. Most remarkably will see the way her parents deeply respected her and her brother's opinions on major family decisions, even at an incredibly young age. It's a beautiful look at the seemingly little moments that make lasting memories. The deep gratitude that comes from seeing your parents' sacrifices and how parent-child relationships can evolve and grow. And finally, before we go, A huge thank you to everyone who joined us as founding supporters during our recent campaign. Your belief in these stories is the engine that powers this show this week I want to specifically thank the Zhou family, HS and James and Jeannie Lin you were the very first people to join the founding supporters, and it's that kind of early belief that keeps these conversations going. If you find value in these co-created memoirs and want to join this group in sustaining the work, you can still become a season three supporter. It's a simple way to help us keep these stories independent and accessible to everyone. You can find the link right in the show notes. This episode was produced and edited by me with advising and executive production support from Ruben Gnanaruban Thanks so much for listening. I'm Jess Lin Take care of yourself and your neighbors, and I'll see you soon.