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Jin, Part 3: Family Restaurants, Ping Pong, & Life Lessons

• Jess Lin • Season 3 • Episode 3

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In the final chapter of our journey with Jin, we step behind the counter of the family restaurant and into the world of competitive ping pong. This episode explores childhood as a restaurant kid and treasured moments of quality family time in between whirlwind schedules for parents and children alike. From her parents’ challenging backgrounds, we see the family they were able to build and the people their children grow up to be. And how, though remarkably challenging for immigrant families, Jin was able to build an adult friendship with her parents.

In This Episode, We Explore:

  • The Restaurant Kid Subculture: A look at balancing school and extracurriculars while helping out with the family business, and developing a special awareness of their parents’ sacrifice and hard work.
  • Ping Pong and Life Lessons: How Jin stumbled into effectively free ping pong lessons that taught her resilience, focus, and skills she would apply to the rest of her life.
  • Parent-Child Relationships: A look at the child-centric values of Jin’s parents—what they sought to mold in their children versus the moments they sought their children's opinions.
  • Intergenerational Friendships: The rare and moving transition from the traditional parent-child hierarchy to becoming genuine friends with her parents in adulthood.

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✊🏾Black Voices Collection – Celebrating leadership, advocacy, and lived experience. The Collection on Spotify and YouTube 

🏮Chinese and Taiwanese Voices Collection – Diversity of the diaspora and relating to family and identity. The Collection on Spotify and YouTube

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Watch on YouTube: Goes live at 6pm EST Feb 24, 2026: https://youtu.be/AwLsbt1YPO0

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Episode Credits

Host, Producer, Research & Sound Design: Jess Lin

Advising and Production Support: Ruben Gnanaruban

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Jin:

So it was just so nice to like. Come out of my extracurricular at school and then my mom would be there waiting and she had brought a box of fried rice for me to eat for like 10 minutes before I had to run off to my next lesson that she was driving me to. she would be asking me about my day. And then she'd be like, I'm so sorry you have so little time. she'd constantly be like. Worried that she was like picking me up too late or all this other stuff. but I always felt that she was there, so I know it's like very like mundane, but I really appreciated that.

Jess:

You are listening to Cultureful where Strangers become neighbors. I'm your host, Jess Lin, Today we reach the conclusion of our three part journey with Jin. in our last episode, we watched the threads of her parents' lives marked by refugee struggles and migration finally combine in the unlikely setting of Peoria, Illinois, but once the struggle for survival ends, the work of building a new life begins today, we're going behind the scenes of the family restaurants to see how Jin's mom and dad raised a family in a new country. We'll explore Jin's childhood memories from inside the businesses and the unexpected life lessons she learned from playing ping pong and we'll look at how they achieved something that can be famously difficult for many immigrant families. How do you actually become friends with your parents? As always, you can watch the video version of this journey on YouTube. Here is part three of my conversation with Jin Hey, Jin. How's it going?

Jin:

I'm good. normal shenanigans with our 11 month old Hayden

. Jess:

Time is going really fast.

Jin:

It's too fast.

Jess:

Seriously, thanks for coming on to finish the interview today.

Jin:

Oh yeah, I'm excited to chat more.

Jess:

Yeah. So we left off with your parents, newly married. Your mom is in Peoria, Illinois at this point with your dad and his large family, now her family too. and today I'm really hoping that we can cover, how the restaurant comes about and shift to your experiences and memories as a child growing up in that space, in the context of a restaurant family business.

Jin:

Yeah. Okay. Sounds good.

Jess:

so when your parents are married, your dad was already a protege of another Chinese restaurant owner, right? Um, Ms. Pearl Chan,

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

who was determined to teach him everything about the restaurant business,

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

how did the story of his own restaurant start?

Jin:

I mean, he was already groomed to start his own restaurant, so I think he was just already thinking about logistically how he would do it. And I think he was scoping out places to do it and he didn't wanna be in direct competition with his, former boss. So he actually went over to a city over in a place called Princeton, Illinois to start his first restaurant, and it was like a sit down restaurant. his family worked as the staff as waiters, all the other stuff. so that was his first restaurant. That must have been before I was born. I think I told you, he's like a serial entrepreneur. within the span of me knowing he has started, uh, five Chinese restaurants.

Jess:

Wow.

Jin:

So the first two he started were sit down restaurants. And then after a while he decided to switch into fast food, a more fast food concept that was more Americanized Chinese.'cause he said that it was just so much easier logistically to do that. And you, you could have much fewer staff to run a restaurant like that. So it actually ended up being what he ended up sticking with. the first one was called Yen Chang. It was in Princeton, Illinois. And that was like, I think while before I was born. and then he opened one called Great Wall Next to the university within Peoria Proper, which was the one that we lived over when I was born. and then the next one after that was almost across the street from there called Panda Carryout. And that was also next to the university. And that was where I feel like I remember some of my childhood up to like when I was eight or nine. and then I distinctly remember when I was nine, he started his other fast food restaurant called China Express, about 10 minutes away from like the last one. Panda carryout, Panda carryout. He sold to his brother, then he started China Express, And then. I remember that 'cause I ended up in some like newspaper article reading Clifford Upside Down and he like, put it up on the wall. So I like read that article over and over again. and then after that he started another larger, carryout called China Express, but it was like across the river in the next town over. So those are five restaurants.

Jess:

Wow.

Jin:

he would often sell one restaurant before starting the next.

Jess:

Oh,

Jin:

Also what I'm not mentioning is he also started a grocery store when he was there, alongside, it was right next door to Great Wall. those are the ones he had started. so he had a lot of businesses happening.

Jess:

so what was your dad's motivation for starting all these restaurants?

Jin:

He just wanted to make money to support his family.

Jess:

And it was like what he knew, because that's what he was getting trained in.

Jin:

I think it's like out of the options, it was the one that he had the capital for at the time, and then it was what was bringing in money. I think he was like always looking at what to do, if that makes sense.

Jess:

Did he have a particular interest in food?

Jin:

I think only because that was his starting point in like into the business world in Illinois.

Jess:

So it was like it was his work thing. It wasn't like a passion,

Jin:

I don't think so.

Jess:

What roles did he play in these restaurants?

Jin:

Yeah. Um, so for the sit down restaurants, he was managing everything. The operations, the ordering of the raw ingredients. he like basically built. The entire kitchen from scratch. I think knowing, like meeting the steam table in the back, like the area for the woks, storage, all that. And then the outside, he also had to figure out like how he wanted the tables to be. And then he, you know, everything for a restaurant.

Jess:

But he didn't like, he didn't cook.

Jin:

He, yeah, actually when I was young, he cooked. so, he was a cook all the way up until Maybe when I was like, in my early teens. He, he started getting like really bad back issues. Like he had her herniated disc a few times over, um, to the point where like, It was just debilitating. He always employed a cook. for the, for the fast food restaurants, he always hired one and a half people. He would have one cook and then one person helping out in the back.

Jess:

Hmm.

Jin:

He would cook, He would be a waiter if needed. he was just like kind of a whirlwind of activity.

Jess:

Just whatever needed to be done, he

Jin:

Whatever needed to be done. But, but he was a cook, so that was probably the primary thing.

Jess:

Hmm.

Jin:

run everything.

Jess:

what about your mom?

Jin:

My mom would do a lot of the front staff stuff. and then in the back, you know, there's so many other things you have to do. Like you need to make sure things are washed. Like there's a fry cook job, like you need to fry egg rolls and all the other stuff. if it's takeout, you package the food. So there's a lot of stuff that my mom would take on in that sense. But it was more the lighter, like physically lighter work. Like the cooking with the huge wok was so heavy that she never had to do that.

Jess:

Okay. I am curious how you go from cooking, I'm assuming a little bit more authentic Chinese food. In the sit down restaurants to a little bit less authentic Chinese, Americanized fast food. Like do, do you know like how he like transitioned to learning? Because I feel like the food is really different when it's fast food.

Jin:

so I actually think that even though it was a sit down restaurant, it was probably already Americanized 'cause we're in the middle of nowhere. Um, and I don't think you would get business if it was authentic to the point where it's unrecognizable to an American who has never had Chinese food before. So I think like it was already its own genre, like Americanized Chinese food.

Jess:

Hmm. For the sit down restaurants. And so then it wasn't that big of a leap to the fast food restaurants.

Jin:

Right. I don't think, 'cause I don't think he actually changed many of his recipes. I think he was tweaking them constantly, but there were no major changes from what I gathered from him. At least

Jess:

how did the businesses do.

Jin:

I think they did fine like they were popular and. I feel like takeout is relatively fast, so he was able to get good volume. Like I remember as a kid if things got too busy, like when I was nine, when China Express started at least I actually would just get up for my homework and go like, help for a few customers if doing things were really overwhelming and I like sit back down and do my homework sometimes. So it did get pretty busy during like lunch hour or dinner hour for sure.

Jess:

well that's a good segue 'cause my next question was gonna be, you know, what were some of your early memories in the restaurants?

Jin:

I remember just being brought over to Panda carryout. I have like very vague memories actually at Great Wall of going in and then like, being like picked up by a lot of the waiters and waitresses just to like, get hugs. I think they all just like, were like, oh my God, a baby, let me hug this baby. So I do remember a little of that, I remember like.. I think I remember like being carried around during like business time and people didn't mind that I was a prop as people were doing their work. And I remember sitting at a table at Great Wall with some of the family members of the staff or even some of the staff.. I do like distinctly remember all my memories at Great Wall, Panda, China Expresses, sitting at one of the chairs, or sitting at one of the tables and like eating I think that's just like a constant memory of the kitchen. not always one of the on menu dishes, usually an off menu dish. And then just like having my meal at the restaurants.

Jess:

Yeah. You were just mostly hanging at the restaurant, or were you also being taken care of? Some by someone outside.

Jin:

I think it was a periodic thing because I had a lot of activities once I hit like eight or nine, I think, like I started getting piano lessons, violin lessons, et cetera. And before that, I know when I was super young, my mom told me that I had a lady take care of me because she was working all day. So she would just drop me off at. Some grandma's house I would just, you know, be in a crib all day, for the first part of my life because, the grandma was like older, but she loved children. Was

Jess:

she Chinese?

Jin:

she was definitely a Chinese, I think she was like a Cantonese grandma who had no children of her own. So she was like so excited to have a kid to take care of, is what my mom said.

Jess:

So my parents, when they first immigrated, they were grad students in Nebraska and they worked in a Chinese restaurant.

Jin:

Oh wow.

Jess:

yeah. And my dad, I think he was doing mostly dishes. And then my mom was hosting. And, you know, I think they got the jobs like really easily because, they like fit the look, you know, of the Chinese restaurant. And, um, I'm kind of wondering like your parents' restaurants, did they kind of become like a Chinese hub or a way that Chinese people would kind of like meet other Chinese people and just find community

Jin:

I think here and there, there were stories of that. So I know that when they were, in the locations at Great Wall and Panda close to the university, a lot of Chinese university students especially would come over and just hang there you know, try to get a taste of home that was off menu or something, or like, you know, just hang out around other Chinese people. So there was a lot of that. And then I do remember when I was older, there were people. Who had just moved into town would come to the Chinese restaurant just to like, see where the other Chinese people were. And I ask my parents that. So it was, it wasn't like a distinct hub, but it was definitely a, a starting place for people to go. And I think, like, so my parents are pretty active in church, so I think that that was actually the, the big hub there is they would just go to my parents. My parents would funnel them into the church and then like they would meet lots of people.

Jess:

How did your parents start going to church? Because

Jin:

Um,

Jess:

Right.

Jin:

no they didn't. So there was a burgeoning Chinese church community when I was. In my early teens. I remember when I was young, I used to play violin and I was in a local orchestra in central Illinois, and one day while I was in the orchestra, the girl who like played violin next to me asked me if I wanted to play at her church. That was literally my introduction and my family's introduction to the church. so suddenly I was playing violin every Sunday at this church that I knew nothing about, but like everyone was so friendly and then they, you know, would talk to my parents as my mom dropped me off and then they would invite my mom to the Chinese church. That was like starting up in their building. So, you know, that was my mom's intro. And then they started like, you know, getting more involved in that community over time as I was getting more involved in the church that I was playing violin for every week. you become more involved in the community and then, and then you're just part of the community. So it was one of those things.

Jess:

So were they initially more interested in the community aspect or the spiritual aspect, would you say?

Jin:

I think definitely the community aspect and the spiritual aspect came a bit later, especially for my dad. It came much, much later I think. But I think it was something that like, I think they did want that it's really hard, you know, to just work all day and not, it's hard to make friends as an adult. I think. So I think for them that was really nice.

Jess:

now, are they still active in the church?

Jin:

Yes, they're still really active in the church.

Jess:

how spiritual are they now?

Jin:

It's a complete flip from like, when, when things first started. I remember I got really into the community when I was a teen and my mom was like, you know, maybe like take it a little less seriously. Um, and then it went, got to a point, like after I graduated from grad school, I went back, I was living in the Bay Area, I went back and then my mom and dad were like, Jin, you must go to church with us on Sunday. And I was like, oh, I don't know, maybe not, you know, I was like, oh. And they were just so serious about it. And, and then I remember saying like, oh, I'm just, you know, not that serious about it right now. And they were just like, they were really sad. cause they had become so serious about it. And I don't know, I thought that was really nice that they had a community that they felt really strongly about. Um, and the reason why I didn't wanna go is I didn't wanna go and listen to like, somebody speak Chinese that I would only understand partially for an hour. So I didn't really wanna go, but I don't know. It was sweet.

Jess:

that was a fun, detour for sec. when, you know, like your very early memories of maybe being like passed around as a kid and then, after that, when you were eight or nine and like started your hobbies, did you spend more time in any of these restaurants your main childcare?

Jin:

as my main childcare, no. And it was only a no because my mom was very intentional about that not being the case, like she did not want me to spend so long in the restaurant, and neither of my parents wanted my brother and I, my brother and I, to consider the restaurant as like a potential career path. So they, they wanted to make sure that our experiences at the restaurant were not the type that would pique our interest in restaurant work, so I think what they wanted to expose us to when we were at the restaurant was how difficult restaurant work is.

Jess:

Really?

Jin:

Yeah. Okay. So as I was growing up, I think my relationship with the restaurants definitely changed from just being a place that I would hang out intermittently to a place that I had to pitch in for. and I think that turning point was definitely when I was, I think I keep saying like nine years old, but I really do think that is kind of where it changed, because I think that is just where I started becoming more aware of. How things worked. And I started being more able to do the tasks that were required to like help around at the restaurant. before that, I think I would just go to the restaurant, eat some food, chill out, like impress some people who are coming through the restaurant by like being such a well-behaved kid of an employee or something, you know? and then that would be it. But once I was nine, when the restaurant opened to begin with, usually somebody from the local newspaper will come over just to profile the restaurant and be like, wow. A new restaurant. And then I think she talked to me while she was eating, 'cause I just happened to be there. and so I like landed in there I guess I, at the time I didn't realize she was writing for the local newspaper, so I was just like, oh wow. Like this is. a thing where I, like, I feel more connected to this restaurant. And then on top of that, I think that was when my dad started teaching me how to take an order, how to use a cash register, and then like, you know, how to, we'd always been folding menus and we'd always been like making the packages of forks, napkins, and sauces and stuff. But,

Jess:

we as in you and your brother.

Jin:

my brother and I. Yeah. so I think my brother actually got his start younger than I did. so we started transitioning into, like, Charlie did food prepping. I did food prepping for a hot second, but I think I, like, I broke my skin on like, while peeling shrimp and I started bleeding and my dad felt so guilty that he never made me do it again. So, so I got out of that really quickly. But, um. There were so many other things, like the food prep my brother did a lot of was like, you had to break up these like ice cold, huge buckets of like rice with your hands in gloves so that it could be easily process. It's that that's the processing you have to do so that somebody can grab it for fried rice like later that day. So, because it's, you want day old white rice, so you like cook some white rice, you stick in the fridge overnight and then the next day you break it all up and then you start using it for rice. so things like that, or you would, I think we helped make crab rangoons. There was like filling for it and then you'd use an egg wash and you'd like fold up into triangles, like crab rangoons. So you do that and then you'd have to bri them when the customer ordered them. So things like that. we just got exposed to a lot of those things like as they were. Happening as it was needed. And I think like whenever we were there and it was convenient for my dad to ask us, we would just do it. So I think that was like what we ended up doing when that new restaurant opened, I mean, every time I was at the restaurant, if they were really busy, the expectation was, was we would just get up and like, do what was needed. Whether it was, take on some customers at the front or be in the back, make sure everything is packed up and ready to go for big orders. Customers, or like we would fry cook as well. Mm-hmm. Um, so we would do stuff like that or wipe off tables, just very like the myriad of random tasks that has to happen at a restaurant to keep it going.

Jess:

Okay. So you feel like your parents deliberately wanted. You to think it was hard and to not wanna take over one of the restaurants as your life plan.

Jin:

Right.

Jess:

do you think it worked?

Jin:

I mean, I think it worked for me only because, well, I had an entire summer where I worked full-time at the restaurant for like a few months, two months I think. And I think that really ingrained in me how I just didn't care for it. and on top of that, I think my dad wanted me to put together. to work with somebody who is building a new point of sale system for the restaurant. So I just like didn't really consider any of it fun. The only part I thought was fun was that I spent so much of my time with my dad, I think for the entire summer, which was really rare. But I think other than that I was like, I don't think beyond the people, like this is not really what I like doing day to day. But I think for my brother, it turned into something that he continued to do in college. so yeah, it worked differently on both of us.

Jess:

How much younger is your brother?

Jin:

He's 19 months younger.

Jess:

Oh, so like very close in age.

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

you went to school and then after school you went straight to the restaurant and hung out and held out there

Jin:

yeah, we would do our homework there. So we always had, I think we had an extracurricular for almost every day of the week. So it was like after school, after all our extracurriculars. It was probably, we weren't free generally until like dinner time or after dinner time, which was when we would end up at the restaurant. We ended up at the restaurant. So yeah. And then we would end up there on the weekends.

Jess:

what extracurriculars were you up to?

Jin:

violin lessons, piano lessons. If I was at school and I joined any club, like I think I was in French club, Scholastic Bowl, I played ping pong like a few times a week. what else did I do? I had art class at one point, on Saturdays we would go off and learn how to draw and like paint really random stuff. those are the regular things I think that I remember

Jess:

It's a lot of things.

Jin:

Mm-hmm.

Jess:

we're gonna take a quick break when we return the shift from the bustle of the family restaurants to the formative world of ping pong, Hey, it's Jess. I've put together two collections on Spotify and YouTube to honor the heritage. We're celebrating this month. The Black Voices Collection and the Chinese and Taiwanese Voices Collection. each of these, helps us see past the monolith to the incredible diversity within each group. In the Black Voices set, we see our neighbor's leadership in the military, the church, and in advocacy. Through the full stories of guests like Denetra and Tonisha We explore the challenges faced, but also the joy community and the traditions intentionally created and passed down. In the Chinese and Taiwanese set, You'll find voices like Sheng on what it looks like to defy the model minority script to pursue his passions. We also hear from Steve on his love life and reflections on how identity shows up in romance The collection is a look at belonging, finding yourself and the evolving relationships we have with our families and our own identities. the kind of stories that change how you see your neighbors and all their complexity and beautiful humanity. You can find the links to both of these full collections in the show notes. Happy Black History Month and happy lunar New Year with love. Jess. now back to Jin's story. Was there any time after work to hang out when your parents got home? What was home life like after work?

Jin:

so the restaurant doesn't

close till 10:

00 PM every day. So usually when we were younger, we just wouldn't see my parents if, we were home and then they had to go close at the restaurant and stuff. So we were expected to just kind of do our thing if we didn't have somebody around to take care of us. I think it was a mix of like things like there was a mix of babysitters. My grandparents lived with us for two years, or my mom would just tell us not to answer the phone or door.

Jess:

Uh huh.

Jin:

which I'm sure is very common back then, but it was also very illegal. But, um, it was fine. So it was just a mix of those things when we were younger, until my parents would close

up the restaurant at 10:

00 PM which I think the closing up process probably took about an hour and then they would get home by 11 and we were supposed to be asleep by then for the most part. so if we were still awake, I think we would just get in trouble.

Jess:

Wait, so you would be at the restaurant for dinner and then go home after dinner.

Jin:

Yeah. Oftentimes if we were at the restaurant, it would be something like that. Yeah.

Jess:

someone had to drive you home.

Jin:

So my mom had a lot of flexibility because they owned their own business. So I think my mom did a lot of driving us around to everything, like school lessons and then restaurant and then home. So we, we had a lot of that. and sometimes we would have people driving us from here to there as well, like friends parents or my ping pong coach would drive us around as well.

Jess:

so these middle school. hobbies, um, which ones do you end up pursuing further?

Jin:

piano, violin, and ping pong. I persisted throughout high school. I mean, I did other stuff after school as well, but that was pretty much it. I guess for ping pong, I ended up just getting deeper into that. I actually started getting into violin and ping pong because of piano, because my piano teacher's daughter. I think like while I was waiting for my mom to pick me up after piano lessons, her daughter was waiting for somebody to pick her up for ping pong. I think the piano teacher, my mom talked about it my mom found out that there was a math professor in the area who like would pick her up and take her to ping pong and like, she got to play ping pong for a few hours periodically. So my mom was like, oh, this is great, free your childcare. So I think that's how we got started in ping pong was that this friendly math professor would just like, pick up a whole bunch of kids to go play ping pong at the university. And it was just like so great. and then I think he was trying to also like engage his, you know, teenage son in like. Leadership, teaching people things. So he also would say like, oh, you don't have to pay for any of this stuff, but if you wanna take lessons, my son will teach you for $5 for half an hour. So, like, I learned ping pong for $5 for half an hour at a time at this university, and his son taught violin for $5 for half an hour. So that is how I started violin.

Jess:

this is the same, the same guy

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

taught violin and ping pong, and he was like a college student.

Jin:

No, he was like a high school kid.

Jess:

He was a high school kid and you were in middle school, high school, but you're learning from this high school game.

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

Okay. That's not at all what I pictured it as. Like when you briefly mentioned it before.

Jin:

Yeah. I mean, okay, so this, this pong guy's name is unc. We call him Uncle George The

Jess:

the math professor.

Jin:

Yeah. I think he, he was just really like, thoughtful of, the people in his care basically. Like it wasn't just my brother and I, like there was, there were other girls who also like, came from restaurant families actually in the area. So it was just all these restaurant kids whose parents were just like, oh, free childcare. Here you go.

Jess:

so Uncle George, Chinese American.

Jin:

He was Chinese American or Chinese. He's from China.

Jess:

okay. I really thought that it was Classes that you had to pay for, but then you got the extra bonus of childcare. But no, it was like free and you can decide, you can opt in or out of the paid classes with his son.

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

okay, so, so the son, your coach or your teacher, your, your ping pong teacher. Was he good?

Jin:

Yeah, I feel like he actually applied himself to learning how to teach well, actually, so I was really lucky. he was teaching so that we'd basically graduate from his teaching into like, eventually I don't call him coach because eventually, like his dad also taught me, but his dad taught for free and he never like asked for money from us. He would just be like, come play with me. And then he would teach us. But eventually, like after learning basic ping pong and violin, like I actually transitioned to other people to teach me, like for ping pong. Uncle George would actually bring in coaches from other places to come teach us. and he would have the much, the much more advanced people who came to the club. It was a club, like a ping pong club at the university. So he'd have the advanced people like play with us, which was really valuable experience. Now looking back, 'cause like who wants to play with, a pre-teen with no experience? Nobody, but he would like get these people to do that just because like they loved him so much and then they were just so nice to us. So we were

Jess:

Oh, so you spent a lot of time, you said this was how often

Jin:

I think for ping pong it was like two, three times a week.

Jess:

Wow. And so you got to. Learn and practice ping pong and have almost free childcare

Jin:

right.

Jess:

and hang out at, you know, this university. What was it like for you? Like what were some of your memories from ping pong?

Jin:

so I mean, I really liked it. I think I found that I don't think I was that special to begin with. it was just time. Like I think I just played so many hours over the course of my childhood that I got to pass, like average level, and then it became really enjoyable. And then I really enjoyed it because even though I was a pretty average player, I constantly got to play with other kids my age who were also playing ping pong. And so we had this tiny community of people who had a shared culture. And then I also got to play with these people who are so good that I could like look up to. And be like, oh my God, these people are so amazing at ping pong. especially compared to me and they want to play with me and they wanna come teach me sometimes, or I get to be their hitting partner, you know? So that was like, kind of cool.

Jess:

Were, were they mostly Chinese or Chinese American?

Jin:

it was a mix. There were Chinese Americans, there were Vietnamese people. there were also Caucasians who would come in and play and they were all just very good.

Jess:

Do you, have any favorite memories from that time?

Jin:

I think it was just really nice to have, have that community of people that you could look forward to seeing every week, like a few times a week. like my brother and I, I mean, we were just kind of, I took him for granted, not gonna lie, I think we just took each other for granted, but like. I think like my best friend at the time also was like my age played ping pong. There were a few other people who did it, and then the adults there were also just so warm. I think I still remember them like now, I remember when I was growing up and they had kids, you know, we'd meet their kids for a first time. We were all basically like a huge family. So it was just one of those like feelings. I think like even when I go back to Peoria now, I still like to like know what they're up to and like say hi to them if they're in the area, things like that.

Jess:

did you develop ping pong aspirations to like, compete and kind of keep going in the ping pong world?

Jin:

think it just kind of happened. I think like Uncle George would just kind of, he would hold tournaments at Bradley, so that was just our introduction is we would just have these little. We would play in these tiny tournaments that he hosted and he would like always have trophies. So I think we often would come away with like, trophy or a few, from these tournaments. So I think that was kind of motivating. but he would also ask my parents if they wanted us to go to actually sanction tournaments for like the National Table Tennis Association. so we would actually go to sanction tournaments as well and have actual ratings and play against people. And I think at our age back then, it was really easy to be nationally ranked. So like we would actually get nationally ranked because we were at that age playing ping pong.

Jess:

Mm-hmm.

Jin:

so that was really interesting. And I think like it was just one of those things where it's not like we personally had aspirations, but it was just kind of the environment that we were in. what was being enabled by these adults? Like, just allowing us to do things, if that makes sense

Jess:

yeah, what do you think were some of the things that you like took away from your ping pong times or ping pong career? I don't know if that's, maybe that's too big of a word.

Jin:

I feel like this sounds so cheesy, but I feel like starting from like high school through beyond college, I felt like ping pongs like this, this tiny world full of lessons that like all translate really well to like life lessons. I don't know if that

Jess:

Hmm.

Jin:

So like

Jess:

that definitely makes sense. Uhhuh, tell me more.

Jin:

yeah, as you like, work on improving yourself, there were just so many lessons that you learn along the way. I don't know if that makes sense, that like you can apply to other things in life. just like, getting anything correct requires so much time and effort and like focus on the correct thing. So it's just like learning how to approach perfecting some, I don't know if perfecting is the right word, but it's just like patiently getting to a goal.

Jess:

Hmm.

Jin:

or like finding the right timing for things. Or like learning how to work with a partner when you're playing doubles, you know, things like that. sportsmanship when you're interacting with the person across from you as you're like playing a match so that, you know, you can like, shake their hand at the end and not feel a certain way about each other. You know, things like that. let's say timing, so when you're playing ping pong, there's like different timings you can have when you're hitting the ball I guess like as you're keeping the ball in play. Like you can hit really early or you can hit later and like The timing of it all like affects how defensively or offensively you're playing, like the spin of the ball and all these other things. And so like oftentimes one of the things that we did at practice was my Uncle George would like feed me from a bucket of like 200 balls. and I would have to just practice the correct timing of like a particular stroke hit or whatever. So I'd have to do like all forehand 200 strokes and it'd have to be like the correct one to hit like a certain spot on the table, for example. Or like, I'd have to reverse a spin on something using like something called a loop, which would like reverse a backin to a top spin. if it was a stronger backspin I would have to wait longer to like pull it upwards so that it would actually counter that strong backspin. Effectively enough to hit the right part of the table or whatever. So things like that, just learning how to calm down enough for the correct timing of hitting the ball.

Jess:

Mm. And how does that translate to your life?

Jin:

I think it's like there's some things you just can't rush and there's some things where you just have to apply the right amount of work for it to work or the right amount of like, input for anything. Like, for example, like when you hit a ball, it has to be on the racket for a certain amount of time to actually apply the right amount of spin, for example.

Jess:

Uhhuh

Jin:

Um, yeah, something like that. I, I feel so cheesy saying this stuff by the way, but

Jess:

no.

Jin:

truly believe it.

Jess:

No, I don't think, I love metaphors. you know, and like learning lessons for things in unexpected places because there's a lot of things that can teach us a lot of different lessons and, and all the time I am telling Reuben, like, randomly we're going around, I'm just like, oh, that's a parable for this. That's a parable for that. I think it's fun. I think it's fun to think about these ping pong related like analogies to life lessons. I don't think it's cheesy,

Jin:

Okay.

Jess:

personally, yeah.

Jin:

I can give you another one too if you

Jess:

Okay.

Jin:

from college actually. But I just remember, like, so I told you I felt super aver in college, but I played in the college team and I think like when I was an upperclassman, this freshman joined who was phenomenal at ping pong and we would travel to different. Other universities to play tournaments against, like, other universities for tournaments. poorly constructed sentence. Anyway, I remember we were playing, some matches and then I think he like commented to me one time that I should be playing harder and then I was like, oh, but I just wanna have fun with this person. we're just hitting around and practicing like it was somebody from another team, but I think we had become friends at that point. And then this guy was like, you should always be playing to win. And I was like, oh my God, is this why he's so much better than me?

Jess:

Maybe better at winning, but maybe not better at some of these other things that you're talking about. You know, like of making sure everyone's having fun or preserving relationships or other stuff like that.

Jin:

Yeah. But I mean, like, it did really show me like. Maybe it takes a certain mentality to get to a certain spot and like I just didn't apply that mentality to get there. Um, and maybe that's what it would take for me to get to, like, if I wanted to improve my rating by X points, you know? So I thought I, I did take that lesson with me because I did respect him a lot as a player. But I mean, I think I've realized that there is a particular sacrifice I have to make to get to a certain spot, like a certain skill level. I thought that was really interesting. And he also taught me a lot about maintaining energy. I would always burn out, playing ping pong. And I think I realized a little too late in the game, like end of college, that it had to do a lot with nutrition. And this guy taught me a little bit about that too. Like he would, he would bring these little chocolates with him and like eat them. Partially through like his matches, and I'd be like, what are you doing? He was like, oh, I need these bursts of energy, so I'm eating this chocolate. And I was like, I no wonder, I always burn out by my, you know, second, third, fourth match because I never thought to do that. I would just drink a whole bunch of water, which I realized later that's also not what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to only take sips of water, things like that. So there's a lot that, like looking back would've been better to know, earlier on, but these are just things that come with having the right mentality or the right knowledge to like get to a certain level, I guess.

Jess:

yeah, things you learn as you go. And,

Jin:

right.

Jess:

So, okay, so going back to the restaurant, topic you mentioned. That, uncle George would pick up, kids from different restaurant families. what do you think are some experiences of kids growing up in restaurant families that other kids don't experience and maybe don't understand? Like, what's some of the stuff you guys have in common?

Jin:

I think it's just growing up in that environment, naturally, you know the inner workings of a restaurant, you kind of know where you have to pick up. To like keep things going. Like you, generally it's second nature to like go and take an order, run the cashier, go in and package the food and make sure that the customer gets it and like you check everything before you get it. that's just kind of like the baseline of what you already know, but I think you also have the knowledge that your parents are working really hard and are probably exhausted at the end of the day. So you're like. You're in your own world trying to like do your thing without really bothering your parents in their world. I feel so, I feel like we were all just like in this self-contained world where we were just doing our own thing with each other though I feel like that is like kind of common for kids as well, but I feel like at least we had this understanding of our parents being really tired a lot what we had to do at the restaurant if we were there.

Jess:

Did you feel like you could relate to some of these other kids a lot more than other friends at school?

Jin:

so they didn't go to my school. But yeah, I do feel like I related to them more. Honestly, every time I meet somebody who grew up in a restaurant, like I feel an instant connection with them, so I have felt that pretty often.

Jess:

Uhhuh. overall, how do you think you were influenced by growing up as a restaurant kid?

Jin:

Um, I think it really allowed me to appreciate. People from different walks of life, like not just like clients that came in, but also like, I think people that work at restaurants are seen a certain way in the community. it's a service job. So you just kind of see that aspect of it. It's made me like, appreciate anybody in a service job much more. it does affect how I, like treat them and see them. So I always wanna make sure I'm acknowledging service people. if I can tip or like do something like that, knowing that they don't make very much. that's always something I wanna be aware of. and then it makes me appreciate like different types of, I think just like my parents coming from the backgrounds they have, it's made me appreciate like different forms of success that are like non-traditional and different forms of intelligence. You know, just like not taking everything like as you're told. It has to be because sometimes not everybody has the ability to like start from where a lot of people assume you can start from. So being able to appreciate like the work that takes to get from one place to another, I think, is something I learned.

Jess:

Well said. that sounds like a pretty big, influencer on your perspective.

Jin:

Yeah, I think so.

Jess:

coming up, Jin shares her favorite memories with her parents, how their relationship has evolved, and the lighthearted way they express their love. We'll be right back. now the final part of our conversation. do you have a favorite memory with your dad in the restaurant space while you were growing up?

Jin:

Yeah. I would say it's probably like a timeframe. So I think like when I was in my mid-teens, there was a summer, so I spent like two months at the restaurant working with my dad, and he was just like, Jin, This summer you're working at the restaurant. I never want you to work here again, in your adulthood. So you are going to see what it's really like. I spent that two months all day, like at the restaurant with my dad from open to close.

Jess:

This is like high school

Jin:

this was high school, so I would go in that summer. I would watch him open things up. So I think like the really strange thing for me is I think my dad never made me do a lot of the stuff that some other restaurant kids would do. Like my brother had to like peel shrimp and do a lot of other like back kitchen stuff. But I was pretty shielded. I did like the few things that I told you that I had to do and then, so I'd watch him open up and then I would mostly just take in customers all day and then. It would just get so busy sometimes. But then like during the

lulls, like two, 3:

00 PM usually a lot of the days there's nothing to do. And sometimes my dad would come out and we would just like sit at the tables and just chat. So I think those were my favorite times where we'd get to do that. and he would like, tell me about his life. I think that's where I learned a lot about like how he grew up and stuff is because we had that time together. And he would just tell me where he came from and then like, I think he was always just trying to drive home, like, don't do this work. This is really hard. But um, but it was just still really nice. And I think like on the weekends, every Saturday morning they would prep the fried chicken for like sweet and sour chicken for like mid part of that week. for the first half of the week basically. So I think They would fry the chicken and because they had like replaced the oil that morning and like the chicken was like all freshly fried, my dad would gimme some fried chicken and I never got to eat fried stuff, like eating fried stuff and soda at the restaurant, even though it was so easily available, was like a rarity for my brother and I, my parents would not let us eat it.

Jess:

Uhhuh,

Jin:

so like getting to eat it some of those days was like really special to me too.

Jess:

favorite memory with your dad growing up outside of the restaurant?

Jin:

Yeah, I'm trying to think about it. outside of the restaurant, what is my favorite moment with my dad outside of the restaurant? it's gonna probably be another memory where I just get to sit with him all day and like just,

Jess:

Oh,

Jin:

not do much hang out. I think there were, as he like retired, I feel like he was kind of searching for stuff to do, but I feel like there was some moments during COVID for example, when we were just starting to figure out like How to make sure my parents were moving around more. This kind of encompasses both my dad and my mom actually. we were trying to connect on a regular basis.'cause during COVID, everybody's worried about each other, but also, like, I was so worried about them staying at home all day that they would just kind of deterior into nothing, um, and just not move around enough. So we would actually meet

up every day at 1:

00 PM I remember I blocked out my days. So that every day from one

to 1:

30 PM I would not have a meeting so that I could like meet with my parents on Messenger video, and then we would just have 30 minutes of workout. I would lead. Four, actions that we would do 10 reps of in three rounds. So during that time we would do that and then I would see my dad like doing all this stuff I'd never seen him do before.'cause I'd never really seen him like exercise or anything. And he would just apply himself. If he couldn't like physically do it, he would like, we would figure out an alternative. but we finished it pretty quickly and so we still had the rest of the 30 minutes and then my parents and I would just chat about stuff during that time. So I really like treasure that time as well where we just got to chat even though we weren't right next to each other. I think it's like a favorite memory of like a recurring time we have together.

Jess:

Oh yeah. And just, it sounds so healthy, physically and mentally and collectively to do that every day during COVID. That just sounds really genius and I'm like impressed that they played along.

Jin:

Yeah, I, so I think that was my favorite thing. I was just so like, glad that they would do that with me. it was just so nice to see. I, I felt like that was kind of a turning point because I feel like it was when I felt like we were. Meeting each other at the same level, not just as like parents and kids. It's like we were like more friends if that made sense. Like just trying to like be there for each other during COVID. And also like we wanted to check in on each other and like take care of each other and also feel good ourselves. So it was kind of nice.

Jess:

Favorite memory with mom in the restaurants growing up.

Jin:

I think it's so funny when you're like differentiating between my dad and my mom.'cause I feel like when I was growing up, like if it was at the restaurant, it was mostly my dad. If it was outside the restaurant, it was mostly my mom, if that

Jess:

Okay. Yeah. Favorite memory with your mom growing up then?

Jin:

Okay. Um. I really loved seeing her after, like getting picked up from school actually. So like when I, if I finished, my life for a really long time, maybe like through middle school and high school was just like this whirlwind of activity where like it was school lessons and everything else. So I think school lessons and then like getting dropped off at home and in between all of that, like. My mom was the connecting through line, making sure everything was like, organized. I, I didn't sign up for half these lessons or whatever, except for my school activities that were extracurricular. So like, my mom would be the one who like often set up the time for like piano lessons, violin lessons, art lessons, timing, and then she would organize like our time, and she'd be the one driving us here and there. So it was just so nice to like. Come out of my extracurricular at school and then my mom would be there waiting and she had brought like, you know, like a box of fried rice for me to eat for like 10 minutes before I had to run off to my next lesson that she was driving me to. And then while I was like, scarfing down this fried rice, she would be asking me about my day. It was like so hurried. And then she'd be like, I'm so sorry you have so little time. she'd constantly be like. Worried that she was like picking me up too late or all this other stuff. but I always felt that she was there, so I know it's like very like mundane, but I really appreciated that.

Jess:

I mean, it sounds like you're like getting that that's her love language, almost like taking care of you and like. Making sure that everything's running smoothly and

Jin:

Yeah.

Jess:

so what do you think were your parents main priorities when they were raising you and your brother?

Jin:

I actually feel like their values were really clear to me. I can actually give you like distinct moments that I realized that they were really clear. I think they were definitely like very child-centric despite being so busy and I think everything they did, I knew it was for my brother and I like to make sure that we had the right environment to be learning and growing in, and that we would like be healthy. whether it was like we were not allowed to eat fried foods and drink like sodas or, I guess the stories I was gonna say is like that I knew it was child-centric. Were two particular ones. I think one was, I think my mom, we were, we grew up in this house that was like not super large, and I think my mom had always wanted to move out. So I think at one point she was like, Hey, we wanna ask you a question, like would you wanna move out of this house into a bigger one? And my brother and I both were like, no, we wanna stay here and be with our friends at school. And then my mom was like, okay. and so we stayed in that house until, like, after I graduated college and grad school until like, really, I think like 2019 is when my parents finally moved out of it. But like I found out later that my mom had wanted to move out way earlier, like when I was a child. But she asked me that question because my brother and I actually, and because we said that she just didn't,

Jess:

Wow. She like deferred to your preferences on where to live. That's huge.

Jin:

Yeah. And then there was another one I was mentioning like the restaurants. They had like two China Express restaurants and I think they were thinking of starting to franchise, China Express because it was doing so well. But because they were working, that was like the only time in my life. I think they were actually working at two restaurants at once, like actively. And trying to figure out this like expansion. But I think one day my mom and dad like kind of stopped and then they came to my brother and I and they were just like, Hey, we know we haven't been very present lately. We are so sorry. And then they were like, do you want us to be home more and to like hang out with you more? And we were like, yes. And so they stopped everything and they were like, okay, we're not gonna be more ambitious than this. This is gonna be our life. Like we will not franchise. We're probably, and then they sold off the second restaurant and they kept to the first China Express. That was our life and it was like really nice. But, that was like why those are like distinct spots where I realized we were very prioritized.

Jess:

It really sounds like it. And I'm also just like, wow, like letting. These kids make these decisions

Jin:

I know.

Jess:

wow. Like, I mean, yeah, you were super loved. That's clear. It is just like, at the same time, my adult brain is like asking children these like huge questions and deciding career life stuff. Like that's so major.

Jin:

Yeah. But I think we didn't realize that we were making big decisions for them. I think they were just getting like our temperature check,

Jess:

hmm.

Jin:

so. It was just kind of nice to know that like they took our thoughts into account, which is nice.

Jess:

yeah. I was just thinking about how my, my. Yeah, like my mom. So we moved to houses when I was 13 and it was like a new build and there's just so many decisions I made as a 13-year-old with a very strong opinions about color and pattern and material about that house. Like most of it is like a shrine to my. My artistic opinions when I was 13,

Jin:

Oh my God.

Jess:

some, you know, for better or for word, but I was just like, mom, why did you listen to me? But I mean, most of it, I, I stand behind, there's like a couple things I'm like, oh yeah,

Jin:

What's an example where you're just like, uhoh?

Jess:

like, I don't know that my room needed to be that strongly lavender for forever. Like, and we like drove really. Far to get this gazebo that was prebuilt by like an Amish community. And like, I mean, I do think it's a great gazebo, but we never use it. It just wasn't, it, it was not really practical. It's, pretty, it looks nice, Like I think our backyard looks really nice, partially because of it, but. Uh, it's not, we don't actually use it, you know, so I'm just like, I dunno how much like you guys really needed to take all my really strong opinions back then, but they did. They did. that's what that made me think of. yeah, so, okay. what do you think were your parents' aspirations for you?

Jin:

I think it's changed over time. I think back then it was definitely like make us proud by going to a good university and then becoming a doctor, a lawyer or engineer, you know, something along those lines. But I feel like, I don't know if rebelled is the right word, I was kind of on that path at Wash U and then towards the end I was like, no, I'm gonna social work school. And I think that really like caused them to reevaluate over time. I think now seeing me, and my brother, they both will just say we just want you to be happy and healthy and like know that you'll have people there for you when we are not there. You know?

Jess:

Like partners and

Jin:

Partners community. Yeah. And we want grandchildren. You know, that's like the normal thing.

Jess:

Uh, Uhhuh. Now let's come to the present. what are your parents up to now and what are you and your brother up to now?

Jin:

Um, well they're both retired now, and even though they're retired, I think they both still like, work periodically. My dad actually, like, even though he has sold the restaurant, he goes back and works there just to like, get back into his flow and like see the customers that he's cultivated over the years. Um, my mom has her own business that is seasonal, selling. Ginseng and Chinese herbs. I think they're enjoying like not having the burden of a business and employees all being on your back. So I think that's really nice. Like the moment my dad sold the restaurant within a year, I saw like 10 years come off of his face. That was really nice.

Jess:

Just the pressure coming off.

Jin:

mm-hmm. And I think because they have time now, like They're not dedicating 11 hours a day to work. my dad has discovered like that he loves golf, fun. And then my mom like goes on walks every day. So it's really nice to like see them become more active and like interested in what is around them, or just being able to engage in things that they like didn't have time to do before.

Jess:

Do they have like a hobby together that they like to do?

Jin:

Um, I would say like probably they go to church together, they sing in the church choir. Really adorable. and then I think like cheesy, but their hobby right now is like hanging with their grandson.

Jess:

How is that cheesy?

Jin:

don't know. It's not cheesy, it's like expected. But yeah, they love like hanging with Hayden, whether it's like over messenger video or you know, in person if they can. they're discovering that they like travel, So I think that's something that they're trying to get more of as well. So that's really exciting.

Jess:

That is, I'm sure they, it wasn't easy to like take time off from the restaurants to like go and travel when they were younger.

Jin:

Yeah, it wasn't though they did prioritize, like always making sure we went back to Asia like once every one or two years. So They did make sure that we did that. But all of our travel when I was growing up was only to family, like no other places.

Jess:

It wasn't like sightseeing, so now they're doing a little bit more sightseeing.

Jin:

Yeah, they're doing more sight seeing like more things that don't necessarily mean like directly going to see family where their family lives.

Jess:

Very cool. I'm happy for them. That sounds like. A nice retirement.

Jin:

Yeah, I think so too.

Jess:

your brother up to?

Jin:

so Charlie is now a software engineer. he lives in Peoria and. He's basically homesteading. his dream life is to homestead and like support the rest of his life with software engineering. So I think he's like slowly getting there. He has bees, he grows like a huge range of, fruits and vegetables, And then he like woodworks and makes all these things on his own. He makes like miso honey. Gets honey from the bees and he like makes wine and all these other stuff. I would consider that pretty like his ideal life.

Jess:

Yeah, I mean, 'cause it sounds like he also like grew up doing a lot of things hands on at the restaurant and so now he's doing like a lot of. Different kinds of things and developing a lot of different kinds of skills. That's so cool.

Jin:

Yeah. It's definitely a through line in his life.

Jess:

and what are you up to these days?

Jin:

These days. well I spent the last year basically hanging out with my son Hayden, which has been an absolutely amazing time. but I think I have also been trying to slowly move back into the professional world. After doing some volunteering here and there and contract. as a consultant, I think I am also going to start joining the full-time world soon. other than that, I plan to continue to enjoy time with Hayden and family as I've gotten to lately. It's just something that I realized I wanna prioritize and. I want that to take up most of my time and energy. everything else is as needed, I think.

Jess:

I don't think the listener knows what you were doing before you took time off, with Hayden

Jin:

Oh, okay. well before, So I got laid off from Meta, in their basically the first year of their multiple layoffs. And at that time I had just transitioned to a product manager, in an operations org in their, in the company. So I had been a product manager for the last year, and then for about six years before that I was on the operations side. Basically in roles of increasing responsibility, like working on elections related activity. from the operations side,

Jess:

this next chapter of going back into the professional world, do you know what sector or what kinds of roles you're wanting to pursue?

Jin:

I think I've been pretty open. The main things I'm prioritizing are probably the team I work with. I just wanna make sure it's a good team. I'm gaining my confidence back in remembering that I can do things and I can always work towards things. realizing I can gain the skills I need. but I also do have A good toolbox of skills I've learned over the years. So role doesn't quite matter as much as like team and, feeling like I'm contributing to something that's, that I'll feel good about at the end of the day, I think is something that I'm hoping for.

Jess:

In terms of like social impact.

Jin:

It's strange, but I think It doesn't even have to be outright social impact. It could be something that feels very ubiquitous. if it's ubiquitous and I find that like useful, I find that to be good impact as well as if something like normal is done well.

Jess:

Hmm. Interesting. do you have any other hobbies that you're maintaining now?

Jin:

I have been doing calligraphy classes weekly. I did them before Hayden was born, and I took a break. Initially, but lately my mother-in-law and I have been attending Chinese Graphy classes. So we do that every Monday night. ideally I've been wanting to continue doing triathlons, so I actually did do one when Hayden was about seven months old, and I'm scheduled to do another one in a month, which I might not do, but that was the ideal. I haven't really applied myself to anything else besides, trying to like regain my confidence and my professional skills I think was something I was spending a lot of time on.

Jess:

I mean, that is like still a lot of hobbies with family and you know, other thing that's like the ping pong, the calligraphy, the triathlons, like, and then you're like momming and Work stuff. So that's a lot that sounds busy. Sounds like plenty of things.

Jin:

I guess it sounds busy. It's actually not too awful.

Jess:

so last question. Is there a saying, you grew up hearing a lot that you wanna share?

Jin:

I think one that we kind of threw around. I think we threw this around like in a trolling way. there was one we said that was like, love is pain, which sounds really awful. I throw it around with some friends as well, but I think it's like, it sounds really awful, but I think it's more that like we, we used to say that when we'd be like, oh haha, love is pain. Like smack you in the booty. Um,

Jess:

Your parents will say that.

Jin:

I think we would just say that to each other. Our parents would say it to us. We would say it jokingly back to my parents. but it's just one of those things where it's just like, I feel like we love each other a lot, but we were pretty lighthearted about it in those moments. and we just kind of like took each other as we were, I think even though it was like kind of silly or like, just When you love someone, you just kind of love a lot of things about them, whether it's like painful or not. So I think that's just kind of nice where have this high acceptance of each other. when we love each other.

Jess:

That's beautiful. I feel like. I feel like that's where I need to aspire to get that level of acceptance. you Jin. for hanging out twice

Jin:

Yeah,

Jess:

and talking about your life. I learned so much. Thank you.

Jin:

Thanks.

Jess:

That was the third and final part of my conversation with Jin Thank you so much for listening and going on this deep dive with us. recently Cultureful had the exciting opportunity to be featured by Earbuds Podcast Collective. I wrote a piece for them that shares. Publicly for the first time. My own personal story and the backstory of what led me to start this show. if you've ever wondered why we do things a little bit differently here, You can find that link in the show notes, and if you enjoy those behind the scenes reflections. I'm starting an email list soon to keep the conversation going. You can sign up for that right next to the blog link in the show notes below. a massive thank you to everyone who joined us as founding supporters during our recent campaign this week I especially want to thank Matt and Nhi Huiyuan and Rachel. C, Your support is the engine behind these stories. if you find value in these co-created memoirs and want to join this group in sustaining this work, you can still become a season three supporter. It's a simple, powerful way. to help us keep these stories independent and accessible to everyone. The link is right there in your show notes. This episode was produced and edited by me with advising and executive production support from Ruben Gnanaruban Thanks for being part of this neighborhood. I'm Jess Lin Take care of yourself and your neighbors, and I'll see you soon.